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it's been 10 months since it was previewed, 5 months since it was first released.
And only 1.5% of the Android market share is ICS.
What is going on?
I think ICS is a product fails, so it was not released. and overcome, they will use the JellyBean.
It's just my opinion.
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What is so compelling about it? I can customize gingerbread to have any features it has. Its not like ios which restricts functionality and appearance to the os level.
The only thing I miss is chrome.
Probably for the same reasons that all Android updates take a while to go out. Manufacturers face several hurdles when they update their phones to a new version of Android. They have to update all drivers to support any changes made to the OS, go through a ton of testing and QA to make sure nothing is broken (remember, not everyone who owns a smartphone can troubleshoot it or go to XDA when something doesn't work, and not every smartphone is fast enough to run new versions of Android). When all that's done, they have to get carrier approval, which means even more testing and other administrative work. Now take all that work and keep in mind that updating phones does not make the manufacturer any kind of profit. These phones have already been sold, and the companies might not be too motivated to rush the creation of an update with no monetary worth.
Now think on a larger scale. The Android ecosystem consists of hundreds of phones released by a ton of manufacturers all over the place, and Google doesn't really have that much control over how the manufacturers run their businesses. The result is the fragmentation we've seen across the platform. Compare that to Apple, which only has to support the last three iPhones, three iPads and two iPod touches, and you can start to understand how iOS updates faster.
Obviously, the manufacturers release updates anyways because otherwise their customers would hate them, their reputation would go way down, and they'd never be able to sell anything to anyone. However, they can still afford to take their time, especially since developers are more than happy to do that work for them.
If Google would let OEMs get in on development earlier they wouldn't be so behind. So the OEMs get the source code late. Instead of just adding drivers and releasing it, the OEMs decide to make their own launchers and bundle bloatware. The whole Android OEM update system is slow and inefficient. I wish we could somehow get updates directly from Google on all devices.
Minimum hardware requirements
Maybe it's because the minimum hardware requirements for ICS mandate more ram, faster processor, etc.. That rules out upgrades of the installed base and adds cost to new products, so the device manufacturers are sticking with Gingerbread for a while longer.
If i recall ... there's is only one ICS released device. The G-Nex.
There are 20million + galaxy s2's out there and another 20 million + galaxy s1's. Add in ten million or so assorted HTC devices and another few million LG and Moto and other oems.
Once more devices with ICS are released, you'll see the percentage increased.
All the GS2's will get ICS soon and many OG Galaxy owners will be near upgrading time (GS3 or so). It'll be rising once the real powerhouses come into town.
Russianzilla already answered out but the basic reason is that phone manufacturers are taking too long to release ics to their owners - for a number of reasons. This means overall adoption is limited to G Nexus buyers and custom room flashers worth compatible devices - hence your miniscule adoption rate
Its not about fragmentation and hardware support, this is business and profit. Its about people still buying gingerbread phones!
If there was some exciting new feature on ics that you couldnt get on an older os/device (siri), people would be waiting with their money and oems would be scrambling. Oems are simply responding to market demand and the market is apparently still good on 2.3 with a promise of upgrade. (Deliver on that promise at their leisure)
spunker88 said:
If Google would let OEMs get in on development earlier they wouldn't be so behind. So the OEMs get the source code late. Instead of just adding drivers and releasing it, the OEMs decide to make their own launchers and bundle bloatware. The whole Android OEM update system is slow and inefficient. I wish we could somehow get updates directly from Google on all devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the bloatware. Wouldn't want people getting ICS without Sense or MOTOBLUR on top. (Although from what I've heard, Sense 4.0 is much better than it used to be.)
russianzilla said:
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the bloatware. Wouldn't want people getting ICS without Sense or MOTOBLUR on top. (Although from what I've heard, Sense 4.0 is much better than it used to be.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sense 4 is beautiful... Plus its lighter and faster than the older versions. We're running a cameraless beta over at the desire s forums, and it looks promising.
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The framework of ICS alone is hell to tamper with, a dev would need at least 100+ GB (yes GIGABYTES) of space on a Linux PC just to set up an environment and create 1, maybe 2 not even fully functional builds of ICS.! And that's for one phone. Imagine HTC trying to build icsandwich or icsense for all of there phones (at least 15), trying to create an evo 3d optimized build to support 3d apps and camera which is near impossible even with the drivers and source code, trying to build for various screen resolutions and hardware (which isn't impossible because the g1, androids FIRST phone, runs a pretty damn stable ICS with few bugs), and on top of that, manufacturers aren't like devs (who will release with bugs and work as they go), it is there goal to release as close to a perfect build as possible, and that just isn't feesable, trying to keep your hardware and software for all of your latest models up to date just isn't something that can be done
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Manufacturers are greedy. So they want to make money by new phones. If they release ics to old phones, people wouldn't upgrade to new phones. Therefore less money for greedy manufacturers if they upgrade old phones to latest version of Android.
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ljordan2 said:
Manufacturers are greedy. So they want to make money by new phones. If they release ics to old phones, people wouldn't upgrade to new phones. Therefore less money for greedy manufacturers if they upgrade old phones to latest version of Android.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks this way
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zonyl said:
If there was some exciting new feature on ics that you couldnt get on an older os/device (siri), people would be waiting with their money and oems would be scrambling. Oems are simply responding to market demand and the market is apparently still good on 2.3 with a promise of upgrade. (Deliver on that promise at their leisure)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
don't think so. Ics is the biggest leap Android ever made, it is the first time you're dealing with something that doesn't feel patched up and thoughtless. Gingerbread sure as heck can do most of the things that ics can but everyone knows that the sum is more than it's parts. user interaction and user experience was never part of the gingerbread equation. What you're getting with ics is a modern os that was conceived for modern devices and if that isn't exciting then I don't know.
Oems are too greedy and too stupid to get the picture, that's why ics hasn't been adopded. they still think they can bull**** their customers as they have done for years with no one except Apple standing up for itself. and they'll bail out on jellybean aswell. Samsung just barfed touchwiz on ics, and still some seriously believe devices like the s3 will be getting jb? never going to happen. In future they'll probably be left behind. New Companies will step up, see the potential, understand that openness and customer care can be profitable, and replace them. Look what happened to Nokia, they ruled the 90s. Same will happen to Samsung and Co.
molesarecoming said:
they'll bail out on jellybean aswell. Samsung just barfed touchwiz on ics, and still some seriously believe devices like the s3 will be getting jb? never going to happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, it's too early to say that. Do you really hope that Samsung or other manufacturers would bail JB? Because I really hope they don't. You're being a bit too pessimistic here.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
ICS slow or broken
russianzilla said:
Probably for the same reasons that all Android updates take a while to go out. Manufacturers face several hurdles when they update their phones to a new version of Android. They have to update all drivers to support any changes made to the OS, go through a ton of testing and QA to make sure nothing is broken (remember, not everyone who owns a smartphone can troubleshoot it or go to XDA when something doesn't work, and not every smartphone is fast enough to run new versions of Android). When all that's done, they have to get carrier approval, which means even more testing and other administrative work. Now take all that work and keep in mind that updating phones does not make the manufacturer any kind of profit. These phones have already been sold, and the companies might not be too motivated to rush the creation of an update with no monetary worth.
Now think on a larger scale. The Android ecosystem consists of hundreds of phones released by a ton of manufacturers all over the place, and Google doesn't really have that much control over how the manufacturers run their businesses. The result is the fragmentation we've seen across the platform. Compare that to Apple, which only has to support the last three iPhones, three iPads and two iPod touches, and you can start to understand how iOS updates faster.
Obviously, the manufacturers release updates anyways because otherwise their customers would hate them, their reputation would go way down, and they'd never be able to sell anything to anyone. However, they can still afford to take their time, especially since developers are more than happy to do that work for them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All good points. To address the section I've bolded, I refer to a point Chainfire gave in response to a pocketnow.com article. ICS isn't a broken or a product flop but a bigger OS jump for the phones than the tablets. The Transformer Prime updated first cause it was an easier transition from honeycomb. The phones requiring more work are taking longer.
Now on top of that point, the OEM's are adding their skins like sense, motoblur, touchwiz and the like. A shame in most cases but it is what it is. It also adds to the delay. More so as ICS is a bigger upgrade iteration then Gingerbread or Froyo was.
While no direct financial gain is to be had from OEM's investing in these upgrades, there is reputation. Of course a good upgrade cycle experience would encourage repeat business rather than consumers abandon a certain OEM's phones or android entirely which a portion of people are doing.
This of course leads to other questions, ones that may need their own thread.
Questions like should android OEM's embrace a less is more strategy. Fewer styles phones with more focus and polish. Can Google enforce its android alliance, or is Google even willing to. Or should it focus smashing the patent war?
I think whatever we see put out of Asus and Moto in the next 18 months will address these questions I've asked.
ljordan2 said:
Dude, it's too early to say that. Do you really hope that Samsung or other manufacturers would bail JB? Because I really hope they don't. You're being a bit too pessimistic here.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sure hope they don't but then again that's what they are doing right now. ics is a major iteration, the biggest change Android has ever had, Android reconceived from scratch. And yet they skipped it, or worse, somehow saw the need to disfigure it. what makes you think they wouldn't do the same when jb comes out, which, as many people believe, will probably introduce a smaller margin to ics than ics did to gb.
molesarecoming said:
I sure hope they don't but then again that's what they are doing right now. ics is a major iteration, the biggest change Android has ever had, Android reconceived from scratch. And yet they skipped it, or worse, somehow saw the need to disfigure it. what makes you think they wouldn't do the same when jb comes out, which, as many people believe, will probably introduce a smaller margin to ics than ics to gb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well no one knows the future. All we can do is cross our fingers and hope that oems would update our device.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
It's a giant clusterfuck of stupidity from all sides.
1. The manufacturers want you to upgrade more frequently. In their eyes, they have no incentive to push timely upgrades because they would make people keep their phones longer.
2. The carriers pressure the manufacturers into skinning Android because they apparently don't a bunch of Android devices that look to be running the same software next to the iPhone. They feel as though they need variety in hardware AND software on their sales floors. This leads to slower adoption as new skins for new versions of Android have to be made by companies that really have no business making software of this kind.
3. Google has basically just been sitting idly by while all of their effort to make what is without a doubt the best mobile OS out there (ICS) is destroyed/ignored by the manufacturers and carriers.
Here's why they're all misguided:
1. The manufacturers are more focused on tricking people into upgrading instead of providing people with the best products available. This is where companies like Apple excel whereas others just don't get it.
2. The carriers don't need a bunch of different skins on their Android devices. This just does not logically follow. Windows machines have been sold on the same sales floor for years without problems. The distinction should be in hardware, not crippling software differences that fragment the user experience.
3. Google needs to do one thing: expand the Nexus line. They can't really impose restrictions on manufacturers like Microsoft can because Android is open source. Three devices in as many years just isn't enough, ESPECIALLY when the current Nexus device is only on one carrier. Imagine two Nexus devices (a larger one and a smaller one) on the four major carriers? That would seriously improve the Android brand. The vast majority of consumers have no idea what ICS even looks like. That is truly a shame at this point.
Gingerbread is a solid OS but it just isn't polished enough to compare to iOS at first glance (and remember, first glance is what sells phones). ICS is essentially a gorgeous version of Gingerbread that blows iOS out of the water. Consumers are getting the shaft by not being able to experience it. Thank god my Captivate has a couple stock ICS ROMs here on XDA. Otherwise, I'd be pretty frustrated with my mobile phone experience at this point.
Why is it that when Apple releases OS upgrades it comes from Apple. It's not AT&T approved, it's not AT&T bloated, it doesn't get vetted through AT&T first.
So why is it that with ICS, we can't get the updates from Google directly? Hell at least from Samsung? I noticed that Sumsung is not branding newer phones with carrier logos now, so I know they got the same if not similar weight. So whats the trouble?
ATT controls the rights and handles the warranty and support for all phones except for iphones. Basically all ATT does is sell the iphone. And that is it.
^yep. Look at Nexus devices, updates come straight from Google. Basically iPhones are like Apple's Nexus devices. Except with a tiny screen, slow processor, 10x slower internet, locked down OS, expensive apps, embarrassing fan base, and an egregiously litigious parent company.
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TJBunch1228 said:
^yep. Look at Nexus devices, updates come straight from Google. Basically iPhones are like Apple's Nexus devices. Except with a tiny screen, slow processor, 10x slower internet, locked down OS, expensive apps, embarrassing fan base, and an egregiously litigious parent company.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said. :beer:
Sent from my i717 using only brain waves.
steve jobs's Reality Distortion Field in full effect. I think he found a way to power it even after he would be dead.
There ****ing ****e!
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they may not have the best hardware.......but to be simple
the Simplicity of the I-phone is unmatched and there for super EASY to use.
my family are i-phone users, when i hand them my phone......they have problems even navigating the pages and widgets. the I-Phone is a Toy refference could not be anymore true, there just simple devices for simple people ( not calling people simpletons ) just saying.
I couldnt agree more. For people who want a Easy to use phone that is not too ****.
Apple are just not for the most clever people. There very unsociable. I mean no sdcard? U have to buy a new phone to get more memory. No flash player? Glad I've never had one. Good for casual users of jus texting and facebook. What's the iphone's capabilities when jail broken?
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Mostly status related, it looks premium and it feels premium and it `s expensive. The hardware though isn`t premium (anymore).
the2rrell said:
they may not have the best hardware.......but to be simple
the Simplicity of the I-phone is unmatched and there for super EASY to use.
my family are i-phone users, when i hand them my phone......they have problems even navigating the pages and widgets. the I-Phone is a Toy refference could not be anymore true, there just simple devices for simple people ( not calling people simpletons ) just saying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Download Kytephone from market. Then they'll like it. Hahahaha.....
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As said, simplicity is the key to success for apple. They LIVE the KISS principle of engineering (keep it simple, Sidney)
However simplicity has the drawback of not allowing you to customize your phone or do anything that the designers didn't include.
Apple: You don't like their keyboard? Too bad....
Android: You don't like their keyboard? Well go to the freakin' Play Store and pick the one you prefer
However....
Android: A new version has been released? Too bad, buy a new device which comes with it. No official upgrade
Appe: You still have that old 3GS? No problem, here's the update.
(I'm not including CM9/AOSP/AOKP/... since most people are still running stock)
d4fseeker said:
However....
Android: A new version has been released? Too bad, buy a new device which comes with it. No official upgrade
Appe: You still have that old 3GS? No problem, here's the update.
(I'm not including CM9/AOSP/AOKP/... since most people are still running stock)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anyone running stock GB or now even ICS may as well have a iPhone. Jb is just awesome! Well the preview anyway..
Are iOS updates even significantly updated. I mean.. my missus has a 4s. I update for her and don't seem to change much.. although I very rarely use it. And she very rarely pays attention hah
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slking1989 said:
Anyone running stock GB or now even ICS may as well have a iPhone.
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Click to collapse
OK I take that back lol but android is truly groundbreaking stuff. Big thanks to Google.
Anyone running stock GB or now even ICS may as well have a iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gingerbread is a halfway decent Rom, so lower-powered devices can use it without problems.
The issue is that a lot of devices (newer than the iPhone 3GS!) are around and still running on Android 1.5 or 1.6
Even if they got updated to 2.1 it still sucks...
The manufacturers simply have no incentive to upgrade their devices since they don't control the Play Store as Apple does with the Market.
So can we expect only one or two updates per model? Excluding Google handsets?
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Because IOS is simple and people pay extra to be lazy, and owning an Apple product is kinda like owning a supercar because you like to show people that you got money to burn.
what apple do is design some fantastic products and get there brand up there with the likes of prada and ferrar,making it desirable to own....
then they control everything you do with there devices...my son has a ipad looks fantastic and made to the best standards but apple own there product not the person who bought it...i would never buy a apple product...
slking1989 said:
... What's the iphone's capabilities when jail broken?
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used to have the iPhone and only recently switched to the GS3 as my first ever android device :good:
The iphones capabilities when jailbroken are not too bad, but nowhere near as good as what a stock android can do. Only downside is that you have to jailbreak first, which means waiting for the dev teams to exploit the firmware and release a packaged tool for each new firmware update.
So can we expect only one or two updates per model? Excluding Google handsets?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung releases 2 upgrades if the next firmware is around the corner when the device is released (as was the case with the S1 and now the S3)
Otherwise you're stuck with 1 upgrade.
Of course that's only the official ROM's. Many people here don't stick around very long on Original ROM's unless it's for warranty claims.
The S1 -despite claims by Samsung that it's hardware is not powerful enough- has an excellent flawless CM9 support and has the first Preview-version of Jellybean released. That will give it inofficial upgrades from the original 2.1 (Eclair) it shipped with over 2.2 (Froyo), 2.3 (Gingerbread), 4.0 (ICS) up to 4.1 (Jelly bean) and possibly counting.
And guess what... despite manufacturer's claims that Wifi Direct needed special hardware the S1 got it too in a CM9 update.
There's also a very functional inofficial CM9-build for low-powered devices such as Galaxy Ace, Gio, Mini, ... which only feature 256MB Ram. And that despite claims by (some) hardware manufacturers that ICS would under no conditions be able to run on anything below 1GB Ram.
In other words; you're stuck with old releases only if you don't know about Cyanogenmod or simply don't care.
(Of course there are other builds such as "real" AOSP, the AOKP, ... but CM9 gives the most bang for your device with all the nifty features they added.
Michael_P said:
Because IOS is simple and people pay extra to be lazy, and owning an Apple product is kinda like owning a supercar because you like to show people that you got money to burn.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
supercar with cheap parts ?
supercar with cheap parts ?
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Click to collapse
It's like the Farradi Farfall. Looks nice from the outside, but once you're actually inside it's meh...
http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/Gallery-Fahrradi-Farfall-FFX-2012-05-09?imageNo=2
Aimara said:
supercar with cheap parts ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess that makes iPhone the Corvette of the phone world.
The same reason why people don't know what building 7 was. Sheep....
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Don't get me wrong I love android but the iPhone built quality is top, my son has the iPhone 4 never a problem with lag, screen issues, camera, it's very smooth, now the other hand,I like to custom my phone that's why I think android is top, but a lot of people don't care about that and that's why people choose the iPhone, and the reason I'm saying quality is every android phone I ever had after 4 months I had to send it in for some kind of problems every iPhone user that I know I just know 10 never compliant,except for battery life, but do far my gs3 is holding out great!I have had no problems at all
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My personal opinion is that, while both Iphones and Droids are perfectly able to be used straight out of the box, Iphones require the least setting up out of the two. If users who have/had Iphones wanted to set up their phones exactly how they want it, android provides more room to do so.
Simply put, if you just want a phone that is "Good" and requires little to no setup, Iphone is for you. If you like the thought of almost fully customizing your experience on your handset, then android is for you.
---------- Post added at 02:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:35 AM ----------
Poker gypsy said:
Don't get me wrong I love android but the iPhone built quality is top, my son has the iPhone 4 never a problem with lag, screen issues, camera, it's very smooth, now the other hand,I like to custom my phone that's why I think android is top, but a lot of people don't care about that and that's why people choose the iPhone, and the reason I'm saying quality is every android phone I ever had after 4 months I had to send it in for some kind of problems every iPhone user that I know I just know 10 never compliant,except for battery life, but do far my gs3 is holding out great!I have had no problems at all
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that the iphone looks and feels very smooth, but you have to remember that there is only one hardware set for the iphone(insert model here) and that their OS is built and tuned towards that hardware alone, whereas there are how many different android devices with different hardware specs currently running stock ICS out of the box?
A simple way to look at it is this. Look at how many cases there are for the Iphone, and then look at how many there are for a specific android device.
http://www.gsmarena.com/newscomm-5003.php
maybe its cos the sdcard card and small battery ?
what else ?
People are drinking the Apple and Samsung kool-aid
Made some terrible decisions, invested heavily in audio beats. Got very complacent and gave the initiative to Samsung who took it both hands and ran with it.
Launched poor products no sd card, no removable battery latter not end of the word.
HTC one x was good but they shot themselves in the foot by not including ext sd card.
HTC will have to get a move on with htc j butterfly if they want to win back their fans from Samsung.
HTC J butterfly can turn it around for them if they sort themselves out.
I would go back to htc in a flash since their products look better then the plastic polished crap Samsung use.
btw I'm using galaxy note 2, best phone on the market, which I'm very happy with but hate the plastic crap.
Samsung and Apple both produce one core line of phone and push it across all carriers, at least for their main line phone. HTC produces custom phones and is inconsistent with there phones. They've produced top, middle and bottom tier phones which give consumers mixed feelings and not a consistent experience access the board. I think Samsung has done better at marketing to. HTC has great phones, and I believe the Chinese government will prop them up if they have to, they will bounce back.
Sent from my rezound
I'm glad this is happening because its going to force HTC to do what they used to do. Make phones that completely outmatched the competition. And when that happens and it will I'll gladly return.
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I think.its because they have too many phones, they need one phone on all carriers
dragonrazorz said:
I think.its because they have too many phones, they need one phone on all carriers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You right there HTC did spread themselves bit thin last year.
Focus one tablet, phablet, phone and that's it. I'm sure they will win over business unless Samsung drop their plastic craps.
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Poor business decisions and diminishing quality control will do that
Just basing this comment on some of my own experiences. I've never owned a Samsung so I can only go from what I've read/heard.
Currently on a Rezound and prior to that was the Dinc, Droid X2, Droid 2 Global and OG Droid (no particular order) Oh and the wife's iPhone 4S. Now some of my reasons, this is by far the WORST battery I have ever had. The Dinc wasn't terrible but I did expect more.
I believe part of the reason is the overlay of Sense. I loved it when I first used it now I'm just tired of it and I'm sure others are as well. You don't get the true experience of the Android OS which is extremely noticeable with the release of ICS. Lets not forget if your running true ICS and what a little Sense flavor there are countless Widgets to download.
Pile on everything mentioned above and you have a receipe for disaster.
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Typically, profits fall when a number of situations occur, all of which affect the bottom line and make investors unhappy.
1 - Fixed costs are too high relative to sales - the cost of running the business (people's salaries and benefits, office space, etc.)
2 - Sales are lower than forecasts - competitors took market share away that HTC was planning on having but didn't get (Apple, Samsung, etc.)
A way to offset high fixed costs is to move jobs to countries where labor costs are lower for salaried and hourly jobs. The trend with tech companies is to establish facilities in China near the supply base. Not only do you reduce fixed costs, but you also reduce freight costs - freight on board is reduced (the transit time for inbound materials to the manufacturing facilities is significantly reduced so money isn't tied up into materials while the materials are being shipped point to point), expediting costs aren't as much of a necessity because materials aren't traveling half way around the world if production was in North America but materials are coming from Taiwan for example... There are a lot of pluses from a corporate profit standpoint as you can see.
When sales are lower than forecasts, quarterly earnings targets are missed and investors never like to see that. Investors have a major interest in quarterly projections and in companies being able to hit their targets. Investors are very quick to leap to conclusions about a company's future when a quarterly report announces that targets have been missed. Stock prices are adversely affected and investors look at other options that can make them more money. If quarter after quarter, the story continues to be consistent, the company's Board of Directors starts to get antsy and they put major pressure on the CEO and CFO to get back on track. Many C-level executives lose their jobs because of quarterly and annual losses. Talk about pressure!
Investors want to see profits that not only meet expectation, but they also want to see smart decisions being made for long term profitability. I haven't personally followed HTC's news but I'm concerned with the recent declaration that HTC isn't doing well financially. I'll be checking out some facts this weekend so thanks for the post!
riz157 said:
You right there HTC did spread themselves bit thin last year.
Focus one tablet, phablet, phone and that's it. I'm sure they will win over business unless Samsung drop their plastic craps.
Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree. I think it's the main problem with Android distribution method. If each carrier only had a handful of devices, the better.
rolltidewall said:
I completely agree. I think it's the main problem with Android distribution method. If each carrier only had a handful of devices, the better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this. If HTC went to a few flagship models, and they used those hardware models for all the carriers, they could focus more on getting those smartphones right, with both hardware and software.
I know people don't want to hear this but as someone who absolutely loves Android, I still feel that apple makes a hell of a device. I would like to see HTC use the resources that are so spread out currently, and focus on making a few top tier phones that are of that same build quality as the iPhone or the couple of Android phones that came close over the years.
But I also feel that way about Android in general. I would like to see Google start to have higher standards for devices from manufacturers, and instead of making android work good on a million and one devices, make it work incredibly well on a smaller number of devices.
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SHAK3R said:
Just basing this comment on some of my own experiences. I've never owned a Samsung so I can only go from what I've read/heard.
Currently on a Rezound and prior to that was the Dinc, Droid X2, Droid 2 Global and OG Droid (no particular order) Oh and the wife's iPhone 4S. Now some of my reasons, this is by far the WORST battery I have ever had. The Dinc wasn't terrible but I did expect more.
I believe part of the reason is the overlay of Sense. I loved it when I first used it now I'm just tired of it and I'm sure others are as well. You don't get the true experience of the Android OS which is extremely noticeable with the release of ICS. Lets not forget if your running true ICS and what a little Sense flavor there are countless Widgets to download.
Pile on everything mentioned above and you have a receipe for disaster.
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Click to expand...
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You're on XDA and there are 99% stable AOSP ROMs available. Get on it
Too many android devices. With every different brand putting out new phones every couple months, there will be large fluctuation in any company profits.
scy1192 said:
You're on XDA and there are 99% stable AOSP ROMs available. Get on it
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He means straight out of the box.
CharliesTheMan said:
I agree with this. If HTC went to a few flagship models, and they used those hardware models for all the carriers, they could focus more on getting those smartphones right, with both hardware and software.
I know people don't want to hear this but as someone who absolutely loves Android, I still feel that apple makes a hell of a device. I would like to see HTC use the resources that are so spread out currently, and focus on making a few top tier phones that are of that same build quality as the iPhone or the couple of Android phones that came close over the years.
But I also feel that way about Android in general. I would like to see Google start to have higher standards for devices from manufacturers, and instead of making android work good on a million and one devices, make it work incredibly well on a smaller number of devices.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
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Nexus!
zetsumeikuro said:
He means straight out of the box.
Nexus!
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If HTC would have had better designs in the last year, Google would have picked them for the nexus 4
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Popping my xda cherry with this post guise, but I'm in no way a noob. I've had minimal experience with android (aside from Bluestacks and other people's phones) as I have yet to own one, but I'm an iOS expert (sorry xD) that has switched over to the android side, thanks to Xperia lol
I keep hearing that Google's Nexus is the only way to experience the real/true/pure android, or whatever. Aside from delayed updates and bloatware, what exactly does this mean ? I've heard this is the case, to a frustrating extent, on Samsung devices (which doesn't even matter because I'm anti-Samsung) but does this also apply to Sony's Xperia line ? And if so, to what extent ?
Of course most of it should be removable via rooting and custom ROMs and such (which I will definitely do, at the very least to get rid of CarrierIQ), but is there any other sort of unmanageable difference between Nexus and other android devices ? Specifically, Xperias.
I've tried Jellybean on a Sola, and was overly impressed. But the interwebz have scared me and, being the nerdy tweaker type, I don't wanna stumble upon this frustration after getting the device.
PS. I plan on getting a GSM unlocked (outside the states) Sony Xperia Z, in case it's relevant. Any general advice is also welcome!
Essentially the completely stock Android user interface is, for many people, a great interface because of how clean it is and it's unparalleled performance. It also gets extra points for the limited number of extra unnecessary features - Android itself can take care of that, it just takes some research (trips to this site and the Google Play Store, for example). Carrier skins aren't exactly bad (not at all in my opinion, actually, I really like a lot of them), they're just criticized when they include unnecessary bloat (like games) and also when they release features that don't work well or aren't very helpful. They also used to be very heavily criticized for their hit on performance, but that's less of a problem now that the modern flagships are extremely powerful.
Sony is pretty good about pushing out Android updates, especially to their flagships like the Xperia Z. It's also often been said that Xperia eDream (the UI that the Xperia line uses an overlay skin on Android) is one of the lightest and most 'true-to-stock' full-blown overlays. Other companies have modified Android far less, but in those cases they only really add a widget or two which isn't all that helpful or interesting. In my personal opinion, Xperia eDream is superb - it's extremely smooth, clean, and elegant, and has a bunch of subtle but fancy animations that don't at all hinder performance.
As a side note, I don't think the Xperia Z has CarrierIQ installed... after their presence was unearth a year or so ago they were largely removed from most phones. I could be wrong, though.
There isn't a massive difference between the Xperia line and the Nexus line once you rule out the software differences (which can be fixed). The only real difference I can think of is perhaps the lack of a navigation bar for the Xperia line, which can actually be implemented via software too even though it's not really logical since you have capacitive buttons right underneath. They can be disabled, but then you're just using up screen real estate.
Also, Samsung is actually also pretty good about pushing out regular Android updates, again especially for their flagships. Samsung is often criticized, though, for their UI (Touchwiz) because it has a bunch of features that are primarily gimmicky and aren't often used in day-to-day usage and also due to it's cartoonish look.
The OEM to look out for that hardly ever updates their phones (even their flagships) in a timely manner is HTC.
Of course, this is where this site comes into play - if there's enough support (and I assure you essentially any flagship from a big-name OEM will get plenty of support, Xperia Z included) you can enjoy the latest version of Android for years to come. Of course, the Nexus line still gets the best support (the ancient Nexus phones like the Nexus S and Nexus One still get decent support, especially the Nexus S) but regardless you'll get great support for Android versions.
Reply to Surpass
Thank you for extensive, detailed reply.
Surpass said:
Carrier skins aren't exactly bad (not at all in my opinion, actually, I really like a lot of them), they're just criticized when they include unnecessary bloat (like games) and also when they release features that don't work well or aren't very helpful. They also used to be very heavily criticized for their hit on performance, but that's less of a problem now that the modern flagships are extremely powerful.
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This isn't really a problem for me, as I plan to get the phone GSM unlocked, thereby officially not belonging to any carrier. I simply mentioned this as it is the number one argument I hear when people talk about "real vs fake android"
Sony is pretty good about pushing out Android updates, especially to their flagships like the Xperia Z.
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See, I thought so too. But I mentioned a Sola that a friend of mine has. He only recently updated to Jellybean, upon my advice and instructions, because his phone never told him there was an update. I walked him through the rooting process merely to achieve this. It was pretty disappointing, especially since the Sola has been out for a while.
It's also often been said that Xperia eDream (the UI that the Xperia line uses an overlay skin on Android) is one of the lightest and most 'true-to-stock' full-blown overlays. Other companies have modified Android far less, but in those cases they only really add a widget or two which isn't all that helpful or interesting. In my personal opinion, Xperia eDream is superb - it's extremely smooth, clean, and elegant, and has a bunch of subtle but fancy animations that don't at all hinder performance.
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This is really what I wanted to hear. Thank you.
As a side note, I don't think the Xperia Z has CarrierIQ installed... after their presence was unearth a year or so ago they were largely removed from most phones. I could be wrong, though.
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As far as I know, only Apple has claimed to remove it from iOS5+. But really, why not look into it ? Aside from the privacy concerns, it hogs battery, performance and bandwidth, regardless of whether or not you're on billable internet or not.
There isn't a massive difference between the Xperia line and the Nexus line once you rule out the software differences (which can be fixed).
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As long as software differences are tweakable, they don't bother me.
The only real difference I can think of is perhaps the lack of a navigation bar for the Xperia line, which can actually be implemented via software too even though it's not really logical since you have capacitive buttons right underneath. They can be disabled, but then you're just using up screen real estate.
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You're right, that's just silly.
Also, Samsung is actually also pretty good about pushing out regular Android updates, again especially for their flagships. Samsung is often criticized, though, for their UI (Touchwiz) because it has a bunch of features that are primarily gimmicky and aren't often used in day-to-day usage and also due to it's cartoonish look.
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My hatred for Samsung is more on a corporate level. Touchwiz is ****, but my hatred for the company itself trumps this. Everyone seems to have forgotten this, but in the pre-Galaxy days, before Samsung disturbed the force of the smartphone world, it was famed for being the cheapest brand out there. Be in TV's, PC hardware, ACs, you name it. They always provide barely par products much cheaper than the competition, and for this reason I have no respect for them, as they slow the industry, and technological development in general, by doing this, rather than being innovative and creative.
The OEM to look out for that hardly ever updates their phones (even their flagships) in a timely manner is HTC.
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I've personally never liked HTC, always felt like an i-mate knock off, but thank you. I know many HTC fanbois that need to know this.
Of course, this is where this site comes into play - if there's enough support (and I assure you essentially any flagship from a big-name OEM will get plenty of support, Xperia Z included) you can enjoy the latest version of Android for years to come. Of course, the Nexus line still gets the best support (the ancient Nexus phones like the Nexus S and Nexus One still get decent support, especially the Nexus S) but regardless you'll get great support for Android versions.
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Hence why I posted here. Again, thank you for all that info!
Ace2213 said:
Thank you for extensive, detailed reply.
This isn't really a problem for me, as I plan to get the phone GSM unlocked, thereby officially not belonging to any carrier. I simply mentioned this as it is the number one argument I hear when people talk about "real vs fake android"
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Oops, sorry, I mistyped that reply, actually. I was referring to OEM skins - there's not such a thing as a 'Carrier skin'. Carriers do install their own suite of bloat, though, on top of the OEM skin, so it's good you're getting a GSM unlocked version, which makes for a more 'pure' experience, like you wanted.
Ace2213 said:
See, I thought so too. But I mentioned a Sola that a friend of mine has. He only recently updated to Jellybean, upon my advice and instructions, because his phone never told him there was an update. I walked him through the rooting process merely to achieve this. It was pretty disappointing, especially since the Sola has been out for a while.
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The Xperia Sola is a low-end device, and low-end devices are not normally targeted for the tech-oriented market and as such oftentimes the users of them don't care (or even know, for that matter) what version of Android they're running. The hardware in the Sola (especially the paltry 512MB of RAM) also makes it an illogical choice to upgrade to the latest version of Android, because newer versions of Android are more focused on multi-tasking which doesn't cater well to low RAM. The newer versions also press down harder on the processor and have fancier animations, which can result in a more laggy experience if it's not very well optimized.
Ace2213 said:
My hatred for Samsung is more on a corporate level. Touchwiz is ****, but my hatred for the company itself trumps this. Everyone seems to have forgotten this, but in the pre-Galaxy days, before Samsung disturbed the force of the smartphone world, it was famed for being the cheapest brand out there. Be in TV's, PC hardware, ACs, you name it. They always provide barely par products much cheaper than the competition, and for this reason I have no respect for them, as they slow the industry, and technological development in general, by doing this, rather than being innovative and creative.
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Fair enough. Samsung can be a bit unimaginative in their designs, I agree on that.
Ace2213 said:
I've personally never liked HTC, always felt like an i-mate knock off, but thank you. I know many HTC fanbois that need to know this.
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The problem that HTC has with updates is in the past they pushed out a HUGE number of phones in a short period of time. If you've got 100+ phones released in the past year it gets difficult to support the latest version of Android on every single one.
HTC this year is trying to turn that around by releasing only one key flagship (HTC One) and a few minor other phones. Hopefully with that their support for the latest Android version will improve.
Ace2213 said:
Hence why I posted here. Again, thank you for all that info!
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Sure.