Related
http://news.yahoo.com/smartphone-spying-204933867.html
This sucks but it does not suprise me. Should be a law suit.
Hopefully this will be deemed illegal. I've not looked at Motorola's and Google's user agreements closely but if it isn't in there I sure as hell didn't agree to this.
Sent from my DROID X2 using xda premium
Verizon and Rogers don’t use Carrier IQ, Vodafone and O2 “don’t collect info”
"and they’re now joined by iPhone users who discovered pieces of Carrier IQ code in all current models."
I've read that installing a custom ROM would get rid of this (if it had it at all). I installed the app that checks to see if it's installed on your phone and it wasn't on mine. Not that I don't trust Verizon (but I don't trust Verizon). I can't post links yet, but google Carrier IQ and look for "Carrier IQ: How To Find It..." article at techcrunch.com. That has the link to the app that will check your phone to see if you have. But like Alan Wolfe posted, Verizon "says" they don't install it, but still handy to check friend's phones.
Yea Vz did say there not using Carrier IQ, I don't trust them either.
I would not put it past them to use some other way to spy on it's user's.
The app is right here on XDA and Developer is one of are own.
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/carrier-iq-sues-treve/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=17612559&postcount=110
ImgBurn said:
Yea Vz did say there not using Carrier IQ, I don't trust them either.
I would not put it past them to use some other way to spy on it's user's.
The app is right here on XDA and Developer is one of are own.
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/carrier-iq-sues-treve/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=17612559&postcount=110
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for posting those links....I would've if I could've
Supercurio posted a CARRIER IQ detection app in the market. Seems like verizon has not been lying to us.
I would longer to think that verizon its watching us some other way though. Maybe they have their own proprietary way of doing so?
I wouldn't doubt VZW has stuff on our phones or are trying to get stuff on our phones. Who knows, maybe moto is in on it too. Its a game between users and carriers, going back and forth, they make it, we root it, they patch the root, we find another way and get bl unlocked, they patch both, we start again. In my mind its almost fun haha
Sent from my DROID X2 using XDA App
IDMA.DROID.X2
I agree with the fun factor. But for me the
fun end's when they start spying and stealing
my personal information. What's the point of
having password's, firewall's , anti-virus etc.
When they (meaning Moto,Google,Verizon,
Comcast, Micro$oft,AOL,Apple and on & on)
have full access to everything on your phone,
PC.
And it's bad enough they have access to all
this but to store and build data base's that they
sell or get compromised is totally unacceptable.
But that's just My opinion I could be wrong
Probably why our bootloaders are locked. Something in the kernel? </tinfoilhat>
Yeah, its a little far over the line, but the rooting and bootloaders is kinda fun. But VZW doesn't use caller IQ or what ever it is. So until we find out for sure VZW/moto is or isn't spying on us, I don't really care. I'm not mad about the latest spying thing because it doesn't effect me. I still wouldnt put it past them though.
Sent from my DROID X2 using XDA App
The harassing of TrevE by CIQ is every bit as disgusting as their product deployment.
Not on me, Verizon doesnt have carrier IQ
Reposted with permission:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1419815
OPERATION: Make Our Selves Heard (#OPMOSH)
DISCLAIMER:
We here, in the movement of #OPMOSH do not consider this spam, we do not consider this slandering Moto, we simply use this as a method of having our concerns heard. Motorola Mobility Inc. has been a powerful company that has been around for a very long time, and one we hope to see long in the future as well, before and after the Google buyout.
About this movement:
Motorola Mobility Inc. has become famous for its lies, slanderous ways, and tendency to flat out prove time and time again that it cares not for its customers after they walk out of that store with their Motorola-branded device. Since the early days of Android, post Droid 1, we have sat down and took our locked bootloaders like a man. There came to be a boiling point - and a full-out war was launched on their social media sites. Sound familiar? The same thing that worked with HTC and now with Asus. We received a generic "second half of 2011" timing. Guess what! It's now Q1 2012, and not only have they missed their deadline, but they have IGNORED all bootloader-related questions, given NO official announcement of their plans still being in motion, and thus must have forgotten that we are a core, dedicated community that wishes nothing more than to enjoy the phones we were given. Let's make ourselves heard yet again, turn the heat up, and make Moto (like HTC) get off of their asses and DO SOMETHING. Everyone counts!
Moto's Facebook - Moto's Twitter - Petition - FCC Complaints (Against Verizon)
So....What can I do?
FIRST OFF, SIGN THE PETITION:
This is included in the email, so it is crucial that it continues to grow in number.
Then....
TRY CALLING VERIZON'S EXECUTIVES.
Make sure before calling that you are very informed about the issue and confident in your position, yet can be quite calm. Do not show any disrespect towards Marie H or the person you call. They are merely the (wo)man-in-the-middle, and you simply need to explain to them your position and back it up with facts. Also, do note that all times are EST.
Call Marie H. at (412) 266-7756 on Monday - Fridays, 8 am to 5 pm. OR Michelle at (803) 231-1787 on Monday - Fridays, 7 am to 4 pm. OR Call Verizon customer service at *611 or (800) 922-0204 and get to a rep by mashing 0.
This is something you cannot copy-paste, unfortunately. Here are some guidelines that should help you be successful in your endeavor:
- First off, if you get the voicemail, leave your name, number, and a time you can be contacted in case they wish to follow-up call.
- Mention that many are filing FCC complaints because this violates Block C guidelines. (Do research in case this is brought into question)
- Mention that HTC, Motorola, and Samsung have bootloader-unlockable devices on the network right now; (HTC has their 2011 devices, Moto has the Xoom, and Samsung the Galaxy Nexus)
- Mention that the bootloader being locked does not allow the device to do anything that a laptop that is using a 4G hotspot cannot do even faster/more efficiently, including hogging network resources.
- Mention that the bootloaders being FORCE locked (as in, not unlockable) does not offer protection from any present viruses or attacks of Android devices.
- Mention also that unlocking the bootloaders could very well use a system like HTC uses - which stores the IMEI of the device and voids its software warranty indefinitely, making Verizon's warranty services not liable for what a user installs on their device.
- Close your talk/voicemail by stating the number of signatures on the petition, currently well over 2,500, and saying that this is a widespread concern of many users, that wish Android to be truly open.
- Say thank you before you hang up, it'll really give off a good impression.
TRY AN FCC COMPLAINT:
http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm
Select Wireless Telephone > Billing, Service, Privacy, Number Portability and other issues > Online Form. Fill out your information, scroll down, fill out 1 and 2, skip 3 and 4. Then in 5:
- Tell the FCC that your phone’s bootloader was sold to you locked, preventing the regulatory requirement of BLOCK C Devices (MAKE SURE TO MENTION BLOCK C!!!) that "Consumers should be able to download and utilize any software applications, content, or services they desire" - make sure to cite that.
- Also helpful would be dispelling the "Reasonable network management" exclusion. Tell the FCC that Verizon allows tethering of unauthorized devices to 4G LTE services through their mobile hotspots and their paid phone tethering functionality as-is, ones that are more bandwidth-hungry and also permit installing custom operating systems, and have a potential of doing significantly more damage, such as laptops.
If you don't want to write yours up manually, we will have a pre-made step 5 that you can just copy paste soon, hopefully.
TRY EMAILING:
TO: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]rola.com, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
To Whom It May Concern,
The independent communities that you catered to with your announcement earlier last year are very very excited for your bootloader unlock solution. However, the "second half" of 2011 has come and gone quietly; why is it that the public has received no notice that the bootloader unlock solution is still in works? A small-scale petition has made its rounds about the Android community, and has already gained over 2,500 signatures just under 55 hours after being made public: http://www.change.org/petitions/motorola-mobility-inc-unlock-all-smartphone-bootloaders-2
Clearly, the demand is indeed still quite strong (as can be seen on your social media networks, Facebook and Twitter), and it would be quite reassuring to the communities that not only pay for your devices every upgrade opportunity, but also help develop the Android operating system that you are using on the aforementioned devices, to have an announcement that the bootloader unlock/relock solution is still on track for a timely release. This would also potentially double as reassurance to on-the-fence Galaxy Nexus/HTC smartphone buyers to go with the Motorola Droid RAZR, with its KEVLAR backing, Verizon 4G LTE speed, powerful 1.2 GHz dual core processor, and new bootloader unlock/relock solution instead. Thank you for your time, and I look forward to your response.
Sincerely,
A Motorola Mobility Enthusiast.
TRY TWEETING:
@Motorola - How about those unlocked bootloaders you promised second half of 2011? @HTC cares, do you? http://moto.ly/icsboot
TRY POSTING ON THEIR FACEBOOK WALL:
@Motorola - I'm a faithful Motorola customer, and I'm starting to have second thoughts. Honor what Android stands for, openness, and give us the bootloader unlock tool that you promised "second-half of 2011". http://moto.ly/icsboot #OPMOSH
MAKE SURE TO SIGN THE PETITION!!
It is the backbone of this movement. We need as many signatures as possible.
We NEED to be heard to get anywhere. Spread the word to your Facebook friends, your Twitter friends, your Google Talk friends, your favorite Android news site... Spread the word! Bring freedom to the Android ecosystem, like Andy Rubin and Rich Miner intended.
Thank you SO much for your support. This community is amazing and I know our endeavors will be successful. See you on Moto's Facebook!
In an effort to get better coverage, I would suggest crossposting to as many Android forums outside XDA as possible. Most definitely, send it to Android Police. It could be worth a shot. While I understand different folks have preferences as to what forums they frequent, getting the word out is paramount.
Just my $0.02 US
Make sure you start a similar one with verizon because i am pretty sure motorola is going to play the blame game as soon as this gains momentum based on the line from the blog post
"where operator and channel partners will allow it. "
I'd like to think this will work if we get it out there enough. It's the customers vs. the company, I can't think of anybody who would want it stay locked except for those people who are like "oh but then it'll just be easier for people to screw up."
zeb carter said:
In an effort to get better coverage, I would suggest crossposting to as many Android forums outside XDA as possible. Most definitely, send it to Android Police. It could be worth a shot. While I understand different folks have preferences as to what forums they frequent, getting the word out is paramount.
Just my $0.02 US
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
couldnt he also post it to many of the xda motorola forums? except those that are already unlocked of course
id send it to droid-life as well
Sent from my DROID X2 using xda premium
This is a good idea. I like the idea of mass emailing them.
Sent from my DROID X2 using XDA App
I'll be doing my part as well. Thanks for starting this thread.
ztotherad said:
couldnt he also post it to many of the xda motorola forums? except those that are already unlocked of course
id send it to droid-life as well
Sent from my DROID X2 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd even post on the unlocked ones. Many people would help the cause. They could write how much they benefit from their phone with an unlocked bootloader. I even bet a significant number of the larger Android community would assist because we all have the same end game in mind.
This thread is great. I was just thinking yesterday of collecting the various resources to petition Motorola. You made everything very clear and we thank you. SPREAD THE WORD!! and, most importantly, ACT ON IT PEOPLE!!
Now we need a script to auto-tweet, auto-email, and auto-flame Motorola AND Verizon.
I'll help out with this cause any way that I can. I just posted on Moto's Facebook Page.
Sent from my DROID X2 using xda premium
i just sent out an email to the addresses that were listed by the OP, lets see how long they can ignore the emails from the customers and ignore the petition. I hope they don't send back a generic email that states that they're "working" on it. If the dx2 is a "closet" device then maybe we can gain at least the key to unlock and we'd be gaining our pudding.
Being a recent HTC convert and former X2 owner, I can say that this could really work. We got our Rezound unlocked. This needs to get out there. You'd be surprised how powerful this can be if enough people here on XDA start making noise. Thanks, OP, for posting this. Good luck!
Can we organize a time to CALL motorola? I think clogging up their phone lines for a couple of hours may be more effective than jamming their inboxes with easily deleted emails. If we could get even 100 people to just call at the same time, we could be HIGHLY effective.
We could all also call the phone number listed in post number 96 of the similar thread in the RAZR forum. I think that if we politely annoy enough people things can get better.
'Bout to hit 1000..
Guys thus could work.we doubled our sigs in less then twelve hours at this rate we'd have 5000 by Saturday. Remember to send them emails and to remind other moto forums!! I have a feeling that they just might listen if we bagger them enough.
Sent from my eclipsed Droid x2
antp121 said:
Guys thus could work.we doubled our sigs in less then twelve hours at this rate we'd have 5000 by Saturday. Remember to send them emails and to remind other moto forums!! I have a feeling that they just might listen if we bagger them enough.
Sent from my eclipsed Droid x2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I signed the petition.
I posted in the Motorola X2 forums that HTC has already unlocked their bootloaders within the United States, and that the X2 will be my last Motorola phone if they do not go through with their statement they released to unlock the bootloaders.
I sent an email (not nasty, but to-the-point) in the same vein as my post in their forums.
Remember, people. Do NOT be nasty about it: no name calling, no cursing, etc. Just state that you feel they should unlock the bootloader, especially since HTC has done it. I went as far as to suggest they contact HTC to see how they got Verizon and AT&T to allow this. Then, state that you won't be purchasing any more Motorola phones if they do not move forward with this. I was being kinder and stated that we, as customers, deserve an answer from them one way or another (whether they will unlock the phones or not). If they choose not to unlock the phones nor give an answer, the X2 was going to be my last Motorola phone.
It wasn't nasty, it was to the point and it was with tact. That's what we need, not a lot of flaming, etc. That won't get you anywhere and they'll just ignore it and treat it as if it were from some child or teenager, which is what I would do with it as well.
BTW, just read this excellent article on Droid Life. Pretty damning against Motorola if you ask me!
http://www.droid-life.com/2012/01/0...eed&utm_campaign=Feed:+DroidLife+(droid+life)
I went ahead and updated my post in the Moto forums to include this article link as well.
BTW, this has to be the 3rd or 4th "article" I've seen today about this. I think it's picking up steam. Now, whether Moto decides to listen and take action is another thing.
Exactly we must be to the point but not to forward it could be offensive plus that could hurt the cause And we still need a little more signer so tell your friends mom etc
Signed petition.hope were heard.
antp121 said:
Exactly we must be to the point but not to forward it could be offensive plus that could hurt the cause And we still need a little more signer so tell your friends mom etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I went and called Mrs. Ellen and Mrs. Houtz. They both want to help and are ready to join our cause. Let's make moves people.
Sent from my DROID X2 using xda mid-grade
Posted it on a google discussion in another forum. Can we get a list of forums this has been posted on?
I believe that we should have this posted on every phones forum because it's not just for us that it will benefit but it would benefit everyone and for me I wouldn't have to wait on a phone to see if it's dev friendly or just another red headed step child.
Sent from my DROID X2 using XDA App
In relation to the SupportMyMoto campaign in which Motorola made the controversial decision to abandon its 2011 flagship phones Atrix, Electrify, and Photon (among others), I'm wondering how long you, as Android users (regardless of what phone you have), feel a phone should be kept current with software updates.
Please keep in mind that if a lightbulb never burned out, you would never buy replacements, so to stay in business, the company would have to sell infinite lightbulbs at an extremely high price. Likewise, if you didn't have incentive to upgrade after 18-24 months, phones would have to be more expensive to compensate for people sticking with what they have for longer.
Should a phone be kept up to date with Android version updates for the longest contract after the phone is released, the longest contract after the phone goes EOL and is no longer sold, somewhere in between, or longer?
To explain the poll options, since I can't do it on the options themselves, the time is how long the device gets timely Android updates, and the nothing/% is how much extra you'd be willing to pay. Best option means it gets updates for 2 years, but after that all materials are released to the public (e.g. XDA) so volunteers could continue to develop new ROMs.
Dark Reality said:
In relation to the SupportMyMoto campaign in which Motorola made the controversial decision to abandon its 2011 flagship phones Atrix, Electrify, and Photon (among others), I'm wondering how long you, as Android users (regardless of what phone you have), feel a phone should be kept current with software updates.
Please keep in mind that if a lightbulb never burned out, you would never buy replacements, so to stay in business, the company would have to sell infinite lightbulbs at an extremely high price. Likewise, if you didn't have incentive to upgrade after 18-24 months, phones would have to be more expensive to compensate for people sticking with what they have for longer.
Should a phone be kept up to date with Android version updates for the longest contract after the phone is released, the longest contract after the phone goes EOL and is no longer sold, somewhere in between, or longer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say it depended on how many active users had the device
neighborhoodhacker said:
I would say it depended on how many active users had the device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously in the real world, if someone else pays double for the device and gets lifetime support, that work is going to leak and somebody who paid the regular price can reap the benefits. But that isn't the question.
Think of it more as, if you're Motorola (or whatever manufacturer). How should they do it? Should they provide extended service? For how long and how much should they charge? Or should they do it for free, and if so how charitable would you have them be?
I'll give a little different take on this. When I go on contract with my provider I get a discounted price on the phone because it is subsidized by the 2 year contract. When my contract is over I go month to month at the same subsidized rate, so I am still paying for my phone the same as if I was under contract. I feel that as long as my provider is charging me the subsidy, they have an obligation to provide support and work with the manufacturer. When support is officially dropped, then the subsidy has to stop as well.
So, I say as long as the phone is in use with a subsidy it must be supported. And in the spirit of open source, when official support is stopped, all source and notes must be made available to the user community.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
I'd take it on a case by case basis. If a handset maker knows it's not going to update its devices, it should make that clear right away, and give the appropriate discount to the device. What is simply ludicrous is that you pay the full price for a super duper device and 12 months later it's just like the device never existed.
samsung says minimum 18 month.
forever
I think google-android needs to create a way that as long as your phone can support the new android version every phone should be able to at least download the software needed if the carrier stopped sending updates for the phone!
I think phones should be supported for 24 months because a lot of people are on contract and it would be nice to get a phone with Android 2.3 and at the end of the contract, get an upgrade to 4.2 Jelly Bean.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
It also has to do with Manufacturers not knowing what Google is coming up next.
Future software tech may not be compatible with current hardware tech. Some things are the lack of space, incompatibilities with manufacturer skins and mods.
Google should give a relevant framework and layout of future android development so that current devices can be future proofed. It will also reduce testing time for updates to each device and reduce disappointing withdrawal of support because of incompatibilities (like the xperia play for example).
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Xparent SkyBlue Tapatalk 2
i want to update my phone in 1-2 months:silly:
phones (and every other thing that can be updated) should always be supported as long as possible, much like what apple does (i hate their policies, but props to them for the updates though)
i mean they update every idevice to the latest software version as long as the hardware is capable of running it well. i believe it should be like so with all the phones. but then again, some companies have so many models that they have no possible way of doing this due to lack of resources... ugh.. what a pickle, huh ?
so as a compromise id say support should last 2 years
The Librarian of Congress has announced some new rules that take effect on Oct 28th that I think should strike fear and disgust in the hearts and minds of everyone in the XDA community.
To put it simply, you will no longer legally be able to root or jailbreak your phone UNTIL your contract with the carrier is over.
I for one see a conspiracy by the carriers in this matter.
Here's the link to the Fox News article
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2012/10/27/new-rules-let-jailbreak-phones-but-not-tablets/
And here's a link to the story on Android Police and their take on the matter:
http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/1...ed-phone-unlocks-will-be-a-thing-of-the-past/
Wow. So everybody buy their next phone by Jan 30. And also a tablets
Should not be considered a game console. And how would they catch you rooting it?
Sent from my MB870 using xda app-developers app
Just purchase your products outright, off contract.
That's what I did. Only limit I have is no 4g phones available through Verizon on prepaid.
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium
I'd be moderately alright with this if it also meant they couldn't legally lock phones either without contract or after the contract expires.
They can go straight to hell. I will do what the hell ever i want to with MY device that I PURCHASED.
....man....what a bunch of *****es....glad my upgrade is the first of January...but probably won't use it....unbranded device here I come.
Droid X2 CM10 A2
I dont get why its not as simple as "If you root your phone and mess it up, dont come to us for help. Thats your fault." Whats so hard about that? Instead they are making it so you cant do what you want with your device. Luckily, I have an HP TouchPad thats fully open and rooted by default. Its not even an official Android device. I dont think it even counts. lol. My Droid X2 is already rooted and I bought it a year ago so I guess it doesn't fall under that category. And whatever phone I get next will be a phone that is unlockable by the manufacture. I'll do my research this time. Most manufacturers are doing that anyway. HTC unlocks their devices. Motorola is starting to. Obviously Google does. So I dont know how this even affects me yet.
jsgraphicart said:
I dont get why its not as simple as "If you root your phone and mess it up, dont come to us for help. Thats your fault." Whats so hard about that? Instead they are making it so you cant do what you want with your device. Luckily, I have an HP TouchPad thats fully open and rooted by default. Its not even an official Android device. I dont think it even counts. lol. My Droid X2 is already rooted and I bought it a year ago so I guess it doesn't fall under that category. And whatever phone I get next will be a phone that is unlockable by the manufacture. I'll do my research this time. Most manufacturers are doing that anyway. HTC unlocks their devices. Motorola is starting to. Obviously Google does. So I dont know how this even affects me yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see this as an attack by the carriers against the openness of Android. The part about tablets concerns me as well. I have an Acer A200, wifi only. It's rooted, running CM10 and a custom kernel. The language doesn't discriminate by wifi only vs 3G/4G enabled tablets.
Google should have gone to bat for all devices. I see no difference in a phone or tablet running Android OS. (cr)Apple products are a whole different kettle of fish. But for Android products, there should be no distinction as to rooting or running custom roms/kernels. But somehow, the Librarian of Congress has meddled without a good technical background just as the jury in the Apple/Samsung trial did.
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
What do you think of having everyone from XDA and the CM community using the DINC 4G LTE file Better Business Bureau complaints against verizon? It made a business decision not to give us updates, and has deliberately removed the DINC 4g from the HTC Unlock program. They shouldn't be allowed to abandon the platform and to remove unlocking ability that was there.
BBB asks them to respond within 14 days. [edit: link removed]
or have you already tried this route?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal). HTC can justify the ability to unlock the bootloader pre-public availability as a means to let developers directly related to software development and quality assurance alter the ROM before release. To a handful of end users who get the device in the early days of release, they get to sneak in and use the unlocker under the "Other devices" category of the program. I suspect we owe HTC a thank you for dragging their feet for a week before disabling the unlock ability for this (and several other) device(s). There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
On the topic of abandoning the platform, software-wise, the last available software update for the Incredible 4G still works with reasonable stability and all advertised features are enabled. It is natural for technology devices to age and need replacement; a balance has to be struck between user content or disdain and extent of support. Verizon has apparently deemed there will be very little blowback by prematurely ending software updates. Considering the number of users I see in the XDA forum section for this phone, I'd guess they're right. About the only sticking point that could be leveraged to force a software update out of Verizon is if there are security vulnerabilities that are either being actively exploited or pose a real threat of being exploited in the near future.
Succinctly, we are at the mercy of Verizon's "generosity" concerning extended functionality of, and software updates for, the phones on their network. With these thoughts, I believe we can only ask them to help us out... with reason, anger, begging, or whatever tactic you find most influential. I don't think we can force their hand.
Your thoughts XDAers?
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone. While I did not expect this phone to be the left-handed, red-haired step-child twice removed orphan of Verizon, it is a great phone with a 4" screen. The size is good (still prefer OG Droid) and the processor and internet speeds are great. I personally am quite content with this phone. We have been blessed with some extremely talented developers and supporters who have
Developed a method to unlock despite HTC/Verizon
Developed two methods for s-off:
DirtyRacun - IMHO, unlimited.io did a great job
FacePalm - Haven't tried, but looks great
Two great recoveries:
Official CWM Recovery, Plus PhilZ
TWRP Recovery
Developed an Incredible Rock Solid Sense ROM in ViperLTE
Developed a solid, official CyanogenMod ROM .
There are probably more, but those are just off of the top of my head. I am also still seeing great ongoing development work for ROMs for this phone. Sure, this phone doesn't have the plethora of ROMs that the OG Droid, Dinc2, Rezound, or [insert model here], but what we do have is solid.
I'm not exactly sure what Verizon owes us. We have a great phone with a great 4GLTE network (at least in my area). It should also be noted that Verizon actually put out an OTA for the OG Dinc around 2+ years after its release with "Improvements and fixes". I would expect the same for this phone as well. I too believe that threats, anger, etc. will not do anything more than generate ill will.
Just my $0.03.
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock? As mentioned above, we have a proved method to unlock bootloader and/or gain s-off. Even HTC's site says that unlocking bootloader through their "official" site may void your warranty.
HTC Dev said:
Please understand that you will not be able to return your device to the original state and going forward your device may not be held covered under the warranty for all claims resulting from the unlocking of the bootloader. HTC bears no responsibility if your device is no longer usable afterwards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing to take away from this is to avoid Verizon and HTC. They may not owe us anything more than we received, but they are clearly sub-par companies compared to others. Unfortunately, I can't ditch Verizon just now because I'm on a shared plan, but I will never buy an HTC phone again.
junkmail9 said:
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone....
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock?
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Just to clarify, I'm not content with the support Verizon has offered for this phone, I just realize that we cannot expect them to continue support. I am still not sure about the best avenues of communication with Verizon Wireless, so in a feeble attempt to get their attention, I write a short #openletter on G+.
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
The open letter seems pointless, besides maybe allowing other people to see and take note that Verizon ignores certain customers. As far as our phone though, no point really. Anyone you reach through G+, Facebook, Twitter, Verizon's customer service contacts, etc. will have no real power to do anything. They just give the typical "sorry, we're doing our best" garbage. The message never reaches anyone important enough to actually do anything. The only way a message may get to them is if the user base is very large, but even if we all wrote to them everyday it wouldn't help. Not enough people for them to care. As you said, we're at their mercy. Just have to wait.
mdmower said:
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
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This is an excellent point I had not considered. I was not thinking about the larger issue, (nor am I savvy with the upcoming CM installer). Unfortunately, I have run into a few companies that have seriously dummied down their products because, as one tech support person told me, "some users may have a problem with the advanced features so we removed them." While I can try and understand that point, it was really frustrating because some advanced features I had come to rely on were removed in the product upgrade. Simply because some people could not comprehend how to use it properly? Is Verizon trying to protect us from ourselves, dummy down the phones for "the uneducated masses," or simply trying to force their customers to live with Verizon-installed bloatware?
Okay I have My own say to this.!
Okay so I left AT&T network when I owned the HTC Inspire 4g and moved on to Verizon because there service was better in my area and I purchased the HTC Droid Incredible 4G LTE as my first phone with Verizon, I came to like the phone because it was fast, snappy, and good on battery....... But I constantly waited for update to jellybean ( Sense 4+ ) which in reality would make the device more efficient and smoother than it was on Ice Cream Sandwich... And finally I heard the news that we were going to get an update to jellybean in the beginning of 2013.. But after so much time of waiting I finally gave up hope and said ***k the device and went back to AT&T...... and bought the HTC One XL because it recieved updates to sense 5. The device is like an older sibling to the inc4g with close to the same specs. I sold the Incredible 4g because I hated the lack of support for this device... The only good thing going for it was CM10 and the amazing sense kernel. This community deserves more than what has been given to them so far... So my question is why Verizon drop support for us.???? If this community received jelly bean j defiantly would sell my XL and come back to this community......
This is my only my concern.
Sincerely,
24ky
Sent from my HTC One XL using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds". i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago ( also how come htc bent over backwards because verizon wanted the bootload unlock for the ONE removed). instead of open letters or angry tweets and emails, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you. how do you think verizon got so good? the used to listen to their customers. now that they are self sustaining they dont need to listen to us anymore. but i bet if their wallet was hit the would. they would bring back unlimited data, remove the block of google wallet, ect....
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
synisterwolf said:
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds" i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago. instead of open letters or angry tweets, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you.
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
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This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
somerandomname1 said:
This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
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this too. maybe if HTC where to step in and help us it would be different.
OP not trying to troll or anything or start a war. i just wanted to get that out their. we do have an option to take our money somewhere else. or at least when this contract is over. ive said it before, i need unlimited data. i dont have wifi anywhere i work and im barely at home so if i have to give up my data plan i will give up my business too. im going to miss there unbeatable coverage but i cant stand to be hit in the balls over and over again with a smile on their face. :/
mdmower said:
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
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My 2 cents on this from bitter experience. You will get zilch. You will waste precious amounts of your life trying hard to convince a rigid management who can care so little they'd be happy to break your phone to pieces and hand you another from their stockpile of dinc4g's just to get rid of them ASAP. I've gone through the whole lot with BBB complaints etc. for the Droid X2 by Motorola. haha, wasted my life there. And the countless pleadings to release the ICS ROM that HTC clearly developed for the Dinc2 (Incredible S, international variant got the ICS update) only to get on the Verizon chopping block and get its head unceremoniously severed, taught me one thing and that is we as consumers have knowingly chosen this path, that will give us limited to no flexibility on customization to stay on VZW and we have to "deal" with it.
With all good intentions, I request all to keep your expectations rock bottom. You have better chances of going to the moon on a future Russian spacecraft than convincing Verizon as to why this may be a good idea.
Sincerely,
A disgruntled Droid™ user.
here has been my android experience. started on og inc oct 2010 first droid phone considered ''high-end'' at the time (8 mp camera saaaaay whaaaat??!) then dinc2 great phone but compared to the galaxy S II and the galaxy nexus at the time it was a ''mid range" phone. now with the inc4g it is very ''mid range'' compared to what is out now. the galaxy notes and s4's and the 50 different htc One(s). if you want many different roms to flash to fix your ''addiction'' go nexus or one of the mainstream phones. you will find 100 different "Unofficial CM10.X" roms with "user tweaks" and "kernel tweaks" that in all actuality are nothing more then a reposync from source. yeah they might have a few different mods but they are usually so similar that you will not/could not tell the difference. like someone mentioned earlier I would rather have a few solid roms. a good sense (viper) or if you're an aosp guy like me there's cm. I think anybody who saw the specs of this phone (incredible 4g) and thought, "hey this is going to be the next BIG THING." I'm sorry to tell you that you were mistaken. xda dev support of a phone is only as good as the devs that own the device, and in our case we have a very small amount of active devs.
So I am the a-hole that emailed mdmower. I apologize profusely. When I saw your first post, I almost slunk away in shame, never to show my face here again. I am not even being a little bit facetious. You do great work for a community of people and I abused (what obviously is) an important rule. And I'm really sorry.
In an attempt to redeem myself just a little bit, let me point out one thing that you might not know:
mdmower said:
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal) [SNIP] There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
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Actually, some states may have more favorable law here. First and foremost, many states have an unfair/deceptive business practices law that are distinct from the false advertising law. Example: New York has GBL Section 349 (trade practices), and 350 (Advertising). These are consumer-oriented statutes and so they have some bite.
On this point, while Verizon has never said they would provide us with Jelly Bean, there are some nice facts here like how many people were locked into 2 year contracts on a phone that Verizon stopped updating during their two year period. I've seen suggestions that Verizon is pulling this with older phones in order to force upgrades, and if true, that would be the basis for a claim. But here, I think the HTCDev unlock is actually pretty damning. We should be entitled to take discovery into the real reasons why Verizon forced HTC to remove the phone from the program. Given the repeated warnings about waiver of warranty, and the presence of other VZW phones in the program, it's hard to believe it's a support issue.
Finally -- of note is that the ACLU has filed an FTC complaint on this subject earlier this year. Unfortunately I cannot post the link since I just registered for this post (long time lurker) but it's the 2nd hit for "april FTC complaint android" (see pages 6-9) Their basis is the potential for security flaws which go unfixed. The relief they are requesting is pretty broad. I'm actually surprised that there haven't been follow-on civil suits already.
Anyway, I am really sorry again. I'm going to crawl back under the rock I came from now.
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
PrimePalaver said:
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
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Haha burn! Just kidding... it's cool.