Hey All,
Has anyone attempted to access the Fingerprint sensor? I know that Moto has not released the dev kit for this yet (and may not), I am wondering if we can get a look at the files and determine how to program to it on our own. Any ideas?
-BluePlanetMan
I'm no (Android) dev but what could they even do with it? Not being an ass, just wondering.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Thread moved.
roharia said:
I'm no (Android) dev but what could they even do with it? Not being an ass, just wondering.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lock apps individually or require fp for access to sensitive files.. First thing I thought of anyways..
BluePlanetMan said:
Hey All,
Has anyone attempted to access the Fingerprint sensor? I know that Moto has not released the dev kit for this yet (and may not), I am wondering if we can get a look at the files and determine how to program to it on our own. Any ideas?
-BluePlanetMan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My understanding is its an Authentec sensor and that Moto has to have an agreement from that company to allow access to the sensor driver/api.
I've been in the fingerprint industry for 7 years and Authentec can be a pain to work with. They are very stingy about their fingerprint algorithm. They make very good sensors but I’ve never been thrilled about their SDKs.
Anyway, a fingerprint device isn’t like most input devices. Just being able to talk to the device driver isn’t enough because without the algorithm you really can’t do much. Fingerprint algorithms are not simple i/o, they are complex image comparison and fingerprint minutiae measurement and probability matching.
Now, I will say that because the locking app calls the fingerprint driver you could probably analyze that code and see the call structure for the fingerprint functions and copy that. If its like on the Windows Authentec drivers it shouldn’t be all that complicated. There are functions for sampling and storing the fingerprint templates, and then for verification of live fingerprints along with threshold settings for tolerances (how strict the match should be, for example 70% confidence).
My company is registered with Motorola and I’ve requested they open up the FP api for us. If they do, I’ll be one of the first to jump on it and I’ll drop a note here.
jeffc said:
My understanding is its an Authentec sensor and that Moto has to have an agreement from that company to allow access to the sensor driver/api.
I've been in the fingerprint industry for 7 years and Authentec can be a pain to work with. They are very stingy about their fingerprint algorithm. They make very good sensors but I’ve never been thrilled about their SDKs.
Anyway, a fingerprint device isn’t like most input devices. Just being able to talk to the device driver isn’t enough because without the algorithm you really can’t do much. Fingerprint algorithms are not simple i/o, they are complex image comparison and fingerprint minutiae measurement and probability matching.
Now, I will say that because the locking app calls the fingerprint driver you could probably analyze that code and see the call structure for the fingerprint functions and copy that. If its like on the Windows Authentec drivers it shouldn’t be all that complicated. There are functions for sampling and storing the fingerprint templates, and then for verification of live fingerprints along with threshold settings for tolerances (how strict the match should be, for example 70% confidence).
My company is registered with Motorola and I’ve requested they open up the FP api for us. If they do, I’ll be one of the first to jump on it and I’ll drop a note here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting... I'll check this thread again lol
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Please check the Motodev site for recent news on this topic.
Related
Does anyone know where the fingerprint files are stored on the Atrix?
This is a good Q for the Q&A.
jeffc said:
Does anyone know where the fingerprint files are stored on the Atrix?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking forward to your Development release
Pretty sure they are encrypted. Otherwise fingerprint security would be pointless.
On topic though, look for the android fingerprint service location.
Sent from my Motorola Atrix 4G on the network with the most backhaul, whatever that is
Thread moved.
Mgamerz said:
Pretty sure they are encrypted. Otherwise fingerprint security would be pointless.
On topic though, look for the android fingerprint service location.
Sent from my Motorola Atrix 4G on the network with the most backhaul, whatever that is
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure they are encrypted. Couldn't do much with them anyway without the api because of the fingerprint algorithm. I'm already trying to get access to that with Moto. One thing I'm trying to accomplish is to find the files to see how large they are and to possibly build a manager of some sort for shared phones so users can pass off the phone to another user and not have to resample fingerprints every time. Its common in some industries my company works with to have a 'work phone' or 'on call phone' that is passed around.
That does sound likens good idea. But I think some other revs looked into the api, and someone who worked for fingerprint company said that it is most likely never going to be released beacise of the proprietary nature. Motorola most likely has a licence on where the fingerprint scanner can be used.
Having a fingerprint reader to unlock a password letting would be nice.
Sent from my Motorola Atrix 4G on the network with the most backhaul, whatever that is
I'm not sure how slow or fast this technology will roll out, here in the States. Heck it could be 2014 before we actually get some common use out of it or it could be as early as 2012.
(Read up on NFC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication)
(Watch NFC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49L7z3rxz4Q)
But in the meantime I was considering the soon to come NFC capable, micro SD Cards & using that in my EVO 3D & maybe the phone after .vs getting a phone I don't want (that has NFC) or an NFC sticker that has poor software interation.
I might never use it (much like my OG EVO's HDMI out cord) but I'm no stranger to being prepared.
One good thing about the EVO 3D is the card's location for this type of card, as I'm guessing its range will not be as good as a dedicated & integrated NFC solution but its location is set on the outermost region in the EVO 3D & not deeply slotted within the phone, which should help. Again, its just guesses as I haven't even seen or heard about this card actually being tested or what it uses for range, only that its in development.
Thoughts? Plans? Scoffs? Meh?
I have mixed feelings about this NFC technology. On one hand it is about as close to a voluntary national ID card type system that I can think of aside from credit/debit cards... and we already have and use those, so, this just eliminates that one last thing to carry. But either way the more use of this type of tech is taken up by the general public the less common cash will be...I'd imagine cash would probably be accepted as legal tender always...but then again, throw around the word terrorist a couple times in congress and where there is a will there is a way. Now any 'non-government-sanctioned' transactions will have a very clear and accessible trail....
....now, I'll take my tinfoil hat off and say it is cool. I do dig technology...but aside from cashless payment systems I don't see much valid use of this technology. Somebody please tell me what I'm missing? It doesn't seem too terribly cool, but, once again perhaps I am missing something.
It also sounds ripe for abuse and fraud. Sure, they can use mega-secure encryption and there will be a clear trail, but, if it was designed by man there is (usually) a back door, intentional or otherwise.
Someone please tell me what is so exciting that I am missing, surely there must be something?
daneurysm said:
Someone please tell me what is so exciting that I am missing, surely there must be something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You got the main idea down (honestly what you posted will be some of the most commonly used functions of it) but it also goes a tad further,
Quoting the Wiki link here of just the few things NFC can do:
Social networkingNFC simplifies and expands Social networking options:
File Sharing: Tap one NFC device to another to instantly share a contact, photo, song, application, video, or website link.[6]
Electronic business card: Tap one NFC device to another to instantly share electronic business cards or resumes.[7][8]
Electronic money: To pay a friend, you could tap the devices and enter the amount of the payment.
Mobile gaming: Tap one NFC device to another to enter a multiplayer game.[6][9]
Friend-to-friend: You could touch NFC devices together to Facebook friend each other or share a resume or to "check-in" at a location.[10]
[edit] Bluetooth and WiFi ConnectionsNFC can be used to initiate higher speed wireless connections for expanded content sharing.[11]
Bluetooth: Instant Bluetooth Pairing can save searching, waiting, and entering codes. Touch the NFC devices together for instant pairing.[6][11]
WiFi: Instant WiFi Configuration can configure a device to a WiFi network automatically. Tap an NFC device to an NFC enabled router.[11]
[edit] eCommerceNFC expands eCommerce opportunities, increases transaction speed and accuracy, while reducing staffing requirements. A Personal identification number (PIN) is requried for payments.[7]
Mobile payment: An NFC device may make a payment like a credit card by touching a payment terminal at checkout or a vending machine when a PIN is entered.[7][6][12]
PayPal: PayPal may start a commercial NFC service in the second half of 2011.[13][14]
Google Wallet is an Android app that stores virtual versions of your credit cards for use at checkout when a PIN is used.[12]
Ticketing: Tap an NFC device to purchase rail, metro, airline, movie, concert, or event tickets. A PIN is required.[7][15][16]
Boarding pass: A NFC device may act as a boarding pass, reducing check-in delays and staffing requirements.[7]
Point of Sale: Tap an SmartPoster tag to see information, listen to an audio clip, watch a video, or see a movie trailer.[10][11]
Coupons: Tapping an NFC tag on a retail display or SmartPoster may give the user a coupon for the product.[10][11]
Tour guide: Tap a passive NFC tag for information or an audio or video presentation at a museum, monument, or retail display (much like a QR Code).[6][10]
[edit] Identity documentsNFC's short range helps keep encrypted identity documents private.[11]
ID card: An NFC enabled device can also act as an encrypted student, employee, or personal ID card or medical ID card.[11]
Keycard: A NFC enabled device may serve as car, house, and office keys.[11]
Rental Car and hotel keys: NFC rental car or hotel room keys may allow fast VIP check-in and reduce staffing requirements.[6][17]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, all of those are extensions on the basic idea of what I thought it was...though much more clever and compelling I must say.
Okay...I'm on board. A lot of those uses seem like even going through the motion of 'tapping' would be a pain in the ass to do...but then I realized you would (like social networking sites) probably just set automatic (manually override-able) 'privacy defaults', 'proximity defaults' and 'dwell defaults' for checking in places, proximity auto-friending, game joining, contact transferal, etc.
Very interesting...also very scary, but, old fashioned 'privacy' might just be a thing of the past--though I would only sign up for a society like that if there was an equivalent amount of transparency in the operating of such a society, but, wiki-leaks and this administrations empty promises have already shown that to be nearly impossible to achieve through anything but empty lip service.
But I digress, aside from my idealism and cynicism being (once again) my stickiest of wickets, I think this has the potential to be really freakin' cool.
Cvs Pharmacy now accepts google wallet for payment. Our phones are already out dated... ha. Does anyone know if the photon has nfc?
aimbdd said:
Cvs Pharmacy now accepts google wallet for payment. Our phones are already out dated... ha. Does anyone know if the photon has nfc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you even read any of the, what 4 (FOUR!??) other posts? One of them tells you everything you need to know to have your "way out of date" phone perform this simple function that is very likely buried in the phone somewhere, waiting for an update to open up...
...I doubt it costs all of $1 to enable this technology. It's like bluetooth but nowhere near as powerful....bluetooth chips are so cheap to make that they are thrown in on wifi stacks for free...ask any of us nook owners
Yeah It's an add on hence why I said what I said. Also that's SD nfc card Isn't available yet... Nor do we have pricing or a date for availability so what's your point? I never said It's "way out of date" no need to be so defensive.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D.
aimbdd said:
Cvs Pharmacy now accepts google wallet for payment. Our phones are already out dated... ha. Does anyone know if the photon has nfc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. I haven't heard of any upcoming Android phones (aside from Samsung & Nexus related devices) that will have it, just that they will add it in the future.
aimbdd said:
Yeah It's an add on hence why I said what I said. Also that's SD nfc card Isn't available yet... Nor do we have pricing or a date for availability so what's your point? I never said It's "way out of date" no need to be so defensive.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, sorry about that.
I was just scanning the thread, read that post (of mine) and thought "what's that asshole's problem?" ... I don't know what the hell my problem was.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App
Honestly I have no desire whatsoever to use this.
NFC= tool of the devil
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Jay516 said:
NFC= tool of the devil
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, I'm guessing the "mark of the beast" will be NFC. I don't plan on sticking around for that.
I can't tell if you guys are being serious... NFC is the future, whether it's utilized well or not it'll still be a huge deal a couple years down the line. Google's only getting started with their implementation.
Cousin has a NS4G, has an NFC tag on his door to turn on WiFi, open up his remote notifier app, and turn his volume all the way down.
You may be thinking "Big deal Tasker could do it." but imagine anyone being able to do that from just a swipe, no configuring or anything. Just swipe your phone and you're automatically on a locked network.
I'm especially excited to see what smart companies can do with NFC for marketing.
Fadakar said:
I can't tell if you guys are being serious... NFC is the future, whether it's utilized well or not it'll still be a huge deal a couple years down the line. Google's only getting started with their implementation.
Cousin has a NS4G, has an NFC tag on his door to turn on WiFi, open up his remote notifier app, and turn his volume all the way down.
You may be thinking "Big deal Tasker could do it." but imagine anyone being able to do that from just a swipe, no configuring or anything. Just swipe your phone and you're automatically on a locked network.
I'm especially excited to see what smart companies can do with NFC for marketing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right, it just depends on the speed of how its deployed & spread.
I'm hoping it spreads like wildfire & setups (much like your cousin's) become a common deal.
Serious, yes. The thread is just to touch people's stance (not everyone may like it was we do) on current plans & feelings for NFC, I plan to make a move the month the SD card solution becomes available.
Greetings All
Having played with android now for some time Im am suprised that nobody that I am aware of is offering any true full disc encryption for Android.
There are "Security Suites" that offer remote wipe etc but I myself dont consider this to be true security.
RIM has offered full disc encryption and wipe to disc capability for years. Yet Android still doesnt truly have this capability (I am aware the latest versions do have weak so called encryption capability). Android devices certainly have the power to run encryption.
And with Whyspersys having been acquired by Twitter that doesnt seem to be a viable option any longer. Besides, they only really offered encryption for two models of phones.
There has been a DARPA request for this, so somebody must be working on it....
So, my questions are:
Why isnt there any stand alone encryption software available? It cant be that hard to create given that its already been available on other types of handsets that could be considered inferior and less powerful. Blackberry handsets have had full disc encryption with wipe to disc capability for years.
Why havent the larger companies (ie symantec etc) offered it? I believe it would be economically viable as there are many that would buy it particularly if it sold as outside of the Google Market and could be managed from the desktop.
For that matter, why hasnt some whippersnapper wrote a program say even at 168 encryption? Again, it cant be that difficult?
Perfect package in my mind would be 256 AES two fish (or 168), sold on a disc rather than the online market, and come with a desktop manager.
Thanks, for any comments-
I know there's encryption inside ICS natively, but I don't know how strong it is.
endeavour123 said:
I know there's encryption inside ICS natively, but I don't know how strong it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not very strong or effective.
Easily defeated with cellex, celbrite, JTAG etc as is iOS etc.
Unfortunately BBerry is the only handset to offer amazing encryption and wipe to disc encryption. Which why Im amazed nobody else does, or that DARPA has to appeal to the community at large in order to solve this....
Most products address end to end encryption of calls, txt, email etc and location options.
Remote wipe is NOT a true solution if you are carrying important data for business if industrial espionage is a consideration let alone 4th Amendment rights.
I love Android devices, but still....
wallflood said:
Not very strong or effective.
Easily defeated with cellex, celbrite, JTAG etc as is iOS etc.
Unfortunately BBerry is the only handset to offer amazing encryption and wipe to disc encryption. Which why Im amazed nobody else does, or that DARPA has to appeal to the community at large in order to solve this....
Most products address end to end encryption of calls, txt, email etc and location options.
Remote wipe is NOT a true solution if you are carrying important data for business if industrial espionage is a consideration let alone 4th Amendment rights.
I love Android devices, but still....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest no matter what you do as long as android is built using an open source platform you will never be able to compare it to a device that was made for business.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using Tapatalk 2
zelendel said:
To be honest no matter what you do as long as android is built using an open source platform you will never be able to compare it to a device that was made for business.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you clarify this argument? In my oppinion Open source is the key to secure encryption. The more people are able so review the source code and the encryption algorithms, the less exploits will be able to stay unfound.
zelendel said:
To be honest no matter what you do as long as android is built using an open source platform you will never be able to compare it to a device that was made for business.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I understand where you are coming from, but I respectfully disagree with that position.
Having been a BB user for several years, I think Android OS is superior in all ways.
But I think the OS, not having come from one company with one goal in mind, is what put Android OS in this position.
As well as the overall obsssion with the collection of tech date by companies and governments, I cant help but feel developers are actually discouraged from creating encryption programs that secure handsets and tablets-
...Interestingly, DARPA is releasing a secure version of Android OS and is open source so the public can view it.
And the NSA is revealing its SE Android, also open source.
But these versions of the OS focus on being able to store and transmit.recieve classified information.
They also focus on limiting permissions of apps.
For general public use (and Enterprise use) it would be nice to just have a system that was encrypted to disc, and could wipe to disc-
I Know
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions &
Read the Forum Rules Ref Posting
Thanks ✟
Moving to Q&A
Please elaborate
Not very strong or effective.
Easily defeated with cellex, celbrite, JTAG etc as is iOS etc.
Unfortunately BBerry is the only handset to offer amazing encryption and wipe to disc encryption. Which why Im amazed nobody else does, or that DARPA has to appeal to the community at large in order to solve this....
Most products address end to end encryption of calls, txt, email etc and location options.
Remote wipe is NOT a true solution if you are carrying important data for business if industrial espionage is a consideration let alone 4th Amendment rights.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure where your info is coming from.
As of Android 2.3.4 device encryption has been available. Granted most manufactures didn't implement the ability very quickly. I have two GB devices niether give me an option to encrypt my device on the stock ROMs, but some did. I am running 4.1.2, and encryption is as full as it gets. If I boot into CWM recovery I can adb into a minimal root shell, but the revocery partition doesn't "see" any of the actual data. I think this suffices. As far as circumventing this encryption, I don't think a JTAG or cellebrite will help you with this. As of Android 3.0 (tablet only I know...) the encryption standard is 128 bit AES, I wish they would have used 256 bit...but whatever. No doubt Android is late in the game, I just don't think they thought it necissary until the smartphone evolved to something more powerful.
Android Encryption: http://source.android.com/tech/encryption/android_crypto_implementation.html
Cellebrite: Their schtick, as far as Android and BB devices are concerned, is recovering data from a locked device, ie you forgot the password and the backup etc etc. They go out of their way to not mention the word DECRYPTION when talking about Android or BB. I say this because in thier iOS section, they repeatedly mention their ability to DECRYPT the device data on the fly. So again it would appear to me that, for Android, they use some custom revocery ROMs and adb to revocer UNENCRYPTED data (with their special hardware).
in fact this is from Cellebrite themselves:
for ALL Android OS versions including Android 4.X (Ice Cream Sandwich). Physical extraction for any locked device is only available if the USB debugging has been switched on
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cellebrite on Android: http://www.cellebrite.com/forensic-solutions/android-forensics.html
Encryption is encryption, if it uses AES, as far as I know you have to be able to crack AES to get at the data once it's encrypted.
You need the password, or brute force, OR find a weakness in the algorithm.
If you're that worried, find another way to transport/store your private data. Companies with this much at stake are stupid to entrust sensitive data to any of these devices in any of their current states. For you and me, I don't think yo uneed to worry about your stuff that much. This is like the old adage that locks keep honest people honest. Most people find a phone, maybe try a few cheap easy tricks and wipe if they fail. Although AES is considered safe against brute force, if you need more, use truecrypt with hidden partitions or something like this and a real computer. Even then....
I have to pass my work ID infront of a scanner to get in to my building. HID seems to be getting this ready for Blackberries:
http://www.nfcworld.com/2011/09/15/39979/nfc-id-badges-to-arrive-on-blackberry-phones/
What's the possibility of this coming to our phones, or at least Androids in general? Is this something a developer around here could do?
kingwp1 said:
I have to pass my work ID infront of a scanner to get in to my building. HID seems to be getting this ready for Blackberries:
http://www.nfcworld.com/2011/09/15/39979/nfc-id-badges-to-arrive-on-blackberry-phones/
What's the possibility of this coming to our phones, or at least Androids in general? Is this something a developer around here could do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to have badges for my building, inside the building, the parking lot of work and home. I really hope thinks of a way soon.
Although I think this would be a great idea, it would be impractical for me due to the restrictions for my badge. Where I work (an airport), my badge must be displayed above the waist at all times when in the SIDA. So having my phone be able to unlock the doors proves to be impractical in my situation.
It would have to be implemented by your company. Standard badges I'm prtty sure are just RFID embedded within your badge, and then checked against a security protocol. In theory, you could move that RFID tag to within your phone battery cover. NFC would be a completely different implementation and likely require a retrofit of the door scanners.
stevesprivateaccount said:
It would have to be implemented by your company. Standard badges I'm prtty sure are just RFID embedded within your badge, and then checked against a security protocol. In theory, you could move that RFID tag to within your phone battery cover. NFC would be a completely different implementation and likely require a retrofit of the door scanners.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NFC is a type of RFID. Many badge systems use 13.56MHz frequencies, which should make them compatible with NFC. For example, at my place of work, passing my Galaxy Nexus across the door/printer access readers results in a response from the reader (a red light).
That's interesting. From the article it sounds very much like it will be on specific HID models...
stevesprivateaccount said:
That's interesting. From the article it sounds very much like it will be on specific HID models...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to have this working.
aeakin said:
Although I think this would be a great idea, it would be impractical for me due to the restrictions for my badge. Where I work (an airport), my badge must be displayed above the waist at all times when in the SIDA. So having my phone be able to unlock the doors proves to be impractical in my situation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although it's not quite the greatest look, you could wear your phone on a lanyard around your neck lol.
EDIT: Well after looking it up, it seems the GS3 doesn't even have a lanyard slot smh. I guess if you wanted to use such a solution, you would have to get a case with a lanyard slot.
So I found myself looking around at different smartphone related articles like I always do when I stumbled across one in particular that had me scared! The article was talking about Samsung and Google bringing Knox to android L. We all know how much of a problem Knox has been to us here at the dev community.
Anyways have a look for yourself here
skeezer308 said:
So I found myself looking around at different smartphone related articles like I always do when I stumbled across one in particular that had me scared! The article was talking about Samsung and Google bringing Knox to android L. We all know how much of a problem Knox has been to us here at the dev community.
Anyways have a look for yourself here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hate to break it to you, but knox or no knox it will likely be a step up in security.
Why wouldn't it be?
Call it what ever you want, just make sure you start shopping for a dev edition.
Yes this was reported when they released the L preview because it's the first time they've included Samsung code into AOSP.
Every release of android will be a step up in security, I'm just going to move on from Verizon if it gets to the point where no boot loader can be unlocked.
joshm.1219 said:
Yes this was reported when they released the L preview because it's the first time they've included Samsung code into AOSP.
Every release of android will be a step up in security, I'm just going to move on from Verizon if it gets to the point where no boot loader can be unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bottom line is that flexibility and customization will always interfere with security and both, fortunately and unfortunately, the latter is one that is of major concern to corporations.
Some of the arguments and measures are over the top but for the most part it part of technology maturing. Rooting a phone for most people here is harmless and enables a purpose, but it also opens the door to circumvent security and encrypted materials from our devices.
It seems Samsung and Verizon are open to creating a "developer" version to allow for justified valid reasons to root and customize, but the more personal and business purposes merge the more security becomes more important over flexibility.
I am not saying this makes it good or that you should like it. But it something that inevitably will continue to progress making it more difficult for complete control of your device.
Capitalism is based on profitability and adoption and if you get large corporation to endorse you methods then you have a huge revenue channel, right, wrong or indifferent.
Hopefully an innovation will come along that will enable the right balance, but only time will tell.
Personally I have recently decided to join BYOD at my work and consequently had to unroot my device, and I have to admit that I miss some aspects, but not enough to give up the convenience of having all I need in ONE device.
Just my $0.02
Well the part that had me concerned was knowing how locked down Samsung devices have become, especially on Verizon and ATT networks. I may be wrong but I think part of the reason we still haven't been able to find an exploit to unlock the bootloader is because of the tightening grips of Knox. Now don't get me wrong I understand that there is a need for security, especially in business with BYOD. I was half scared they were attempting to lock down android to that extent as a whole. As I read further into the article I had learned that some of the Knox feature I was fearing wear hard ware implemented. I think this part from the article pretty much sums it up.
"Even though Samsung is sharing many of the Knox functions with Google on Android L, they will still offer a superior security solution on Samsung devices. This is due to several features requiring deep hardware integration that can only be managed directly by Samsung. As listed on the Samsung Knox blog, the following will remain specific to Samsung:
TrustZone-based Integrity Measurement Architecture (TIMA)
Real-time Kernel Protection
Client Certificate Management (CCM)
Trusted Boot-based Key store
Remote attestation
Trusted Boot
Biometric authentication
KNOX Smart Card Support"
skeezer308 said:
Well the part that had me concerned was knowing how locked down Samsung devices have become, especially on Verizon and ATT networks. I may be wrong but I think part of the reason we still haven't been able to find an exploit to unlock the bootloader is because of the tightening grips of Knox. Now don't get me wrong I understand that there is a need for security, especially in business with BYOD. I was half scared they were attempting to lock down android to that extent as a whole. As I read further into the article I had learned that some of the Knox feature I was fearing wear hard ware implemented. I think this part from the article pretty much sums it up.
"Even though Samsung is sharing many of the Knox functions with Google on Android L, they will still offer a superior security solution on Samsung devices. This is due to several features requiring deep hardware integration that can only be managed directly by Samsung. As listed on the Samsung Knox blog, the following will remain specific to Samsung:
TrustZone-based Integrity Measurement Architecture (TIMA)
Real-time Kernel Protection
Client Certificate Management (CCM)
Trusted Boot-based Key store
Remote attestation
Trusted Boot
Biometric authentication
KNOX Smart Card Support"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a BIG difference between locked bootloaders and Knox...the bootloader is a proprietary part of the firmware, not the OS...Knox is integrated in the OS....neither have anything to do with the other. Please venture into the T-Mobile, Sprint and International S4 forums to see the effects of Knox. If you do not want a locked bootloader switch to a carrier that does not do it or phones that do not have it. I understand Verizon has even blocked the use of HTCDev on their newer HTC devices and updates. These carriers locking the bootloaders do so to have the most secure phones and be able to go after the military and commercial contracts. So again, do not think Knox has anything to do with the lock down of AT&T and Verizon....that is all between the carrier and Samsung.
m3Jorge said:
The bottom line is that flexibility and customization will always interfere with security and both, fortunately and unfortunately, the latter is one that is of major concern to corporations.
Some of the arguments and measures are over the top but for the most part it part of technology maturing. Rooting a phone for most people here is harmless and enables a purpose, but it also opens the door to circumvent security and encrypted materials from our devices.
It seems Samsung and Verizon are open to creating a "developer" version to allow for justified valid reasons to root and customize, but the more personal and business purposes merge the more security becomes more important over flexibility.
I am not saying this makes it good or that you should like it. But it something that inevitably will continue to progress making it more difficult for complete control of your device.
Capitalism is based on profitability and adoption and if you get large corporation to endorse you methods then you have a huge revenue channel, right, wrong or indifferent.
Hopefully an innovation will come along that will enable the right balance, but only time will tell.
Personally I have recently decided to join BYOD at my work and consequently had to unroot my device, and I have to admit that I miss some aspects, but not enough to give up the convenience of having all I need in ONE device.
Just my $0.02
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I don't know, I don't understand how it would affect anything if they let a user decide if they wanted their bootloader unlocked for every device.
joshm.1219 said:
I don't know, I don't understand how it would affect anything if they let a user decide if they wanted their bootloader unlocked for every device.
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Because the users are not always the owners. My work phone is an Apple 5s. But "My" is not really accurate. It's my employer's phone that they give to me to use for work purposes. So I'm the user, but if the owner wants it locked down, that's their prerogative.
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brizey said:
Because the users are not always the owners. My work phone is an Apple 5s. But "My" is not really accurate. It's my employer's phone that they give to me to use for work purposes. So I'm the user, but if the owner wants it locked down, that's their prerogative.
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So require owner account access then
I personally think if they did include knox in android L there would still be an option to use fastboot to unlock the device.
xXsquirr3lsXx said:
I personally think if they did include knox in android L there would still be an option to use fastboot to unlock the device.
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This would be correct. Please see OP linked articled to see what is is actually being implemented here.