Related
The Cingular forums are now shutting down discussion re the new ROMS ... nice ... just trying to keep us from helping each other out (you would think it would be to their benefit, so folks don't bug their non-existent customer service)
see here for all the gory details.
This is getting more and more ridiculus by the day
Hallllllo M$ and providers. when we buy a device we ALREDY get a licenced WM, what's your problem???????????????????????????????????????
weinson said:
The Cingular forums are now shutting down discussion re the new ROMS ... nice ... just trying to keep us from helping each other out (you would think it would be to their benefit, so folks don't bug their non-existent customer service)
see here for all the gory details.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the thread has been resurrected for the time being...no idea how long that will last though.
This is just like Cingular, I have been told that this update would be out since Dec. by Cingular sales and it never has. We cannot help it if Cingular is so slow on getting updated services out. If they would put more effort in service and less on what they are going to call them selfs maybe they could supply better service. I have 19 cingular accounts and may move all of them if they don't get there act together.
Steven -
Do what my wife did, she is part of the State of FL gov contract on Cingular and she has a fair bit of power in moving accounts so she basically said if you can't support your gear with updated ROMs maybe she would move accounts somewhere else.
I doubt they care but who knows...
so many dumb-ass flashed their phones w/o reading the instructions, bricked their phones and start to call Cingular/ATT for help/repair/replacement. Next thing we know, MS is trying to remove all ROMs, ATT removing thread about new ROMs....
That's y we should make this community go underground, ban the suckers who don't read, link ROMs to rapidshare or other similar sites instead of this site's FTP server.
It's sad to see we have to remove the ROMs but I wouldn't blame MS or ATT for asking XDA-developers to do so.
Oh, btw, if you guys care go sign the petition, show us some supports even if we dont get what we want.
peace.
It's the War on Common Sense. And since all of us are a minority here, ignorance and misinformation prevail.
The main reason Big Business does this is because the executives are a much older generation that is scared and terribly confused by the Internet. So to them, we're all looking to ruin their business by making their phones work in ways they didn't intend for them to be used. What they don't know is, our solutions are much better than the ones they provide (hence the void we're filling by being here, supporting, and working out their phones for free) and if they were to release even just half of the ROMs the XDA community cooked up, they'd have a much happier customer base.
steven814 said:
This is just like Cingular, I have been told that this update would be out since Dec. by Cingular sales and it never has. We cannot help it if Cingular is so slow on getting updated services out. If they would put more effort in service and less on what they are going to call them selfs maybe they could supply better service. I have 19 cingular accounts and may move all of them if they don't get there act together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cingular/AT&T is pretty much the only carrier with even a _leaked_ rom... so how are you going to say that they're slow? They're actually ahead of the curve, in my opinion.
The 8525 came out in November. I'm pretty sure that there must have been some miscommunication if you recall someone in December told you the Rom would be out tomorrow (or any specific immediate timeframe). "Soon" is not necessarily "one month" or less. I think sometimes we hear and preceive what we WANT to be the truth based on what we actually _did_ hear. I mean, as far as I can tell, HTC just released the 3.3 rom to carriers a matter of weeks ago. Cingular has been working on things other carriers aren't doing, too (PTT, Cingular Video, etc.) So they're putting more into the rom than most of our European counterparts need to (with the exception of video calling... yet.)
I guess what I'm saying is that we, as enthusiasts, expect more than the average customer. And as for Cingular / AT&T, of course they don't want to be providing support for an unofficial and likely unfinished rom. Honestly, having inexperienced and impatient Cingular customers reading about this leaked rom and trying to put it on their devices prematurely would certainly cause a terrible amount of problems. Again... it's _leaked_ and _unofficial_, so they should not feel like they have to support it.
Just my 2/3 of a nickel.
GliTCH82 said:
It's the War on Common Sense. And since all of us are a minority here, ignorance and misinformation prevail.
The main reason Big Business does this is because the executives are a much older generation that is scared and terribly confused by the Internet. So to them, we're all looking to ruin their business by making their phones work in ways they didn't intend for them to be used. What they don't know is, our solutions are much better than the ones they provide (hence the void we're filling by being here, supporting, and working out their phones for free) and if they were to release even just half of the ROMs the XDA community cooked up, they'd have a much happier customer base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree. I believe the truth is if they released half the roms on here, they're customers WOULD be confused, scared, and lost because they have no idea what rom they should be running. They'd have no idea why something doesn't work perfectly on one rom and better on another. Or why one radio may or may not be better. Think about how many people on here aren't reading everything they need to and bricking or nearly bricking their devices. And these are the ones SEEKING the information. The average 8525 user on Cingular's network isn't quite as interested in this stuff as we are here.
Knowledge is power, but unstable power is chaos.
Think about it.
Xda-Developers is a great source for those seeking to know more about their devices than just its typical uses. But anyone who really wants the knowledge will seek it out and find it (just as we all did). Throwing an incomplete rom at the average lawyer who needs Microsoft Direct Push and not much more is likely to cause more problems than it's worth for AT&Tingular as well as for us (because we'll be the ones trying to clean up the mess).
I think I should sign off on this before I infuriate some of those out there who just want to vent their frustration. And we all know the company with the dollars is always a great target to do that.
Does't surprise me in the slightest.
I am sure many OEMs and phone companies are sick of people bricking their phones and claiming warranties (of course they never admit to using cooked ROMs or even trying to upgrade them - 'Just woke up one morning and it wouldn't boot up').
I enjoy this forum too but don't tell me it doesn't encourage people to do things they shouldn't, and are not willing to take responsiblity for.
esseff said:
I enjoy this forum too but don't tell me it doesn't encourage people to do things they shouldn't, and are not willing to take responsiblity for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree with that statement... I wasnt aware that giving warnings to the users that flashing their phone could brick it and that they need to read and make sure they fully understand what they are doing before they do it was encouragement... I know that when i came to this board and saw the warnings about flashing cooked roms it freaked me out.. i was registered for several months before i ever made a post, spent countless hours reading all the threads to make sure i fully understood my device before i did anything to it.. its the people that dont read and brick their phone that want to come back and blame us for their mistake.. This is a developers board and quite frankly alot of us go out of the way of development to help people in need... we especially go above and beyond any kind of help that you would recieve from your provider
My 2c
I have to agree with shogunmark. I know I made very sure I read every last thread and wiki before I attempted anything as rash as upgrading a Radio stack. This was because of my fear of bricking the unit, because so many people warned it could. I was even willing to endure the mass "RTFM" and "RTFW" flaming if i wanted to make sure I understood everything correctly before risking my device.
I believe the largest part of this community are users that gather here in the spirit of sharing the knowledge about the device to encourage greater growth of the community- the more people, the more mods & hacks & cracks and experiences will become part of the knowledge base.
yet im still trying to figure out how "MAY BRICK YOUR DEVICE" warnings are encouraging...
Come on guys!
Sure there are countless warinings but simply the enthusiasm and excitement amongst the experienced crew, when a new possibliity appears (GPS, WM6, AKU this, AKU that) causes less experience people to get caught up in it.
I'm not for one minute discouraging XDA developing, just TAKE RESPONSIBLILITY IF YOU BRICK YOUR DEVICE AND DON'T GO CRYING TO THE OEM OR TELCO FOR WARANTY. Pay for your mistake and buy another.
I have seen, on this forum people advising others to go back to their supplier with bricked devices and try to get a warranty. It is hard for the supplier to argue with someone who says their device 'Just stopped working', when infact they bricked it, and in the spirit of good customer relations they often replace it. Why wouldn't suppliers be negative toward forums like these when they are placed in this situation.
Sigh... I've been told that HTC's single greatest returned device is the Wizard followed closely by the Hermes. Reason: bricked.
We post the warnings, but plenty of people don't take the time to fully understand then brick their devices anyway (hermes is especially bad in this respect). Then they try to return them.
In many ways, this is the manufacturer fault b/c they are trying to thwart users who try to upgrade or change their devices. Hermes development feels like spy vs. spy sometimes as we crack something and then the next bootloader/radio bootloader comes out. Consequently pre sspl hermes flashing was damn near rocket science. Problems were rampant. Heck, I even saw one poster try to flash the original signed_nbh into the OS area with the 1.01MFG bootloader
They're all gonna try it. There's no minimum IQ required to be a member here.
Ideally, we need to find a way to bring any HTC device back to life from brick status. It's only corrupted memory after all. If the correct bytes are written, the software works. When I did SE phone hacking, there were such devices. Because of this, users with bricked phones could take them to their nearest SE phone center and they would re-flash and un-brick (for a price of course).
This ridiculous swapping of bricked devices is what needs to change. Posters need to take financial responsibility for phones they brick. HTC needs to make their hardware flashing system available to Operators at phone centers.
Unfortunately, this won't be the case. Instead, they'll go after us because they can see an ROI impact in terms of bricks. What they can't see is the intangible increase in sales that we stimulate or the intangible loss of future revenue that shutting us down represents.
Sign the petition. Get your friends to sign it. Get it posted on other forums. Get it into the news. Operators and M$ need to be able to see this intangible.
on the other hand with the hermes and returns... we just got to a point to where we could brick them less than a month ago... most of the returns before then was by manufacturer fault, i know this because i was one of them, i had a ton of bad blocks in the wrong spot....
its to bad we dont have an easy rom kitchen for these.. something that would make it damn near impossible for the person who cant read to brick their device.. i dont know.. im tired and going back to bad, my post isnt making much sense to me right now
but i do agree with you sleuth!
Wow... check out the attitude here...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=294365
Kinda proves my point.
Add a success story here - mainly because I am competent enough to read and ask the right questions when there was vague information.
I am not new to flashing/modding, but the Hermes definately takes it to a new level.
The difference with me, should I ever brick my device - I would just deal with it. I came here with the understanding that the tools available to us come with an increased risk should you not actually understand what you are doing. You need to be aware that you should own up to the possible mistakes and not try to send a bricked device back for warranty....
Two individuals who make this place so great - Pof and Sleuth. Pof has done such a great job with the wiki and his tools - all you need to do is take a few days to read about the device and the steps you need to make. Sleuth brings a different element (and his programs) to the forums and has the patience to point questions to the right areas of the wiki.
My advice - if you plan on unlocking/upgrading take at least a week and read the wiki. Make sure you have all the pieces needed to complete what you want to do. Sync your device and backup all your info - be prepared to hard reset and start from scratch - twice in some cases.
Set aside plenty of time that your phone will be down during this process.
This site is by far the best there is - it's a shame that people rush into things some times.
Sleuth255 said:
Ideally, we need to find a way to bring any HTC device back to life from brick status. It's only corrupted memory after all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC should put JTAG out in its new models
Seriously, it's a big flaw that every official ROM image overwrites th bootloader, even with the same version. The whole firmware history teaches that the bootloader should not be touched by end user.
So, the solution is to make custom ROMs flashable by parts, w/o affecting the bootloader. This should prevent bricking... does not revive existing bricks though...
But your overall point is good: manufacturers get angry because of a lot of returns, and care shell be taken to calm them down.
on another note about the cingular boards... i got banned there was a thread about the lack of good moderation in the HTC board over there, i spoke my piece and got banned... it wasnt even bad, just offered some suggestions.. so much for contructive criticism and free speech..
I DONT KNOW IF I SHOULD POST THIS THREAD OR NOT BUT I WOULD LIKE TO ADVISE YOU NOT TO EVER BUY STUFF FROM LYNX COMPUTER STORE OR LYNX-INDIA.COM
THE OWNER(AMARBIR) WILL FIRST GIVE YOU THE WRONG GOODS AND THEN WILL NOT EVEN TALK TO YOU AND EVEN IF HE DOES IT WOULD BE RUDE.
I CANT TELL YOU THE WHOLE STORY NOW BUT ON MY FRIEND'S RECOMMENDATION I GOT MY PC ASSEMBLED FROM HIM AND AM STILL SUFFERING.
IT IS JUST AN ADVISE SO THAT YOU DONT GET YOURSELF SCREWD UP BY BUYING GODDS FROM THIS PERSON
*****if mods wanna ban me fr posting such a stupid thread they can.but beleive me guys its just fr ur help*********
suggestion
dear all,
i think we can create a thread for this that would have data of blacklisted ones. maybe shops / vendor sites /applications & softwares. i mean all stuff that is avoidable and is known to anyone of us, should be reported here. well just a suggestion, Mods & Admin if you like it.
thanx.
mehra said:
dear all,
i think we can create a thread for this that would have data of blacklisted ones. maybe shops / vendor sites /applications & softwares. i mean all stuff that is avoidable and is known to anyone of us, should be reported here. well just a suggestion, Mods & Admin if you like it.
thanx.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not possible, in my opinion. Because that might put this forum in trouble (legally).
So, don't think it will be possible.
BTW, no all caps please. Its consider rude.
sorry fr caps but was really angry wid that person while posting this thread...
here is the full story
http://www.techenclave.com/general-...digarh-store-sold-incompatible-140146-11.html
@Addicted: Not if we just share our experiences with different vendors/shops using the "right langauge". Sharing experiences is not a crime, declaring someone bad causing damage to a business may be a crime. So share both good and bad ones.
But based on my experience, these kind of threads loose their meaning after some time when they become really long. Look at thinkdigit.com forums (if you are a reader of the popular technology magazine Digit, or if you even know about it), there are many such examples. Ankit can tell you better, he is also a member there like me.
krazy_about_technology said:
@Addicted: Not if we just share our experiences with different vendors/shops using the "right langauge". Sharing experiences is not a crime, declaring someone bad causing damage to a business may be a crime. So share both good and bad ones.
But based on my experience, these kind of threads loose their meaning after some time when they become really long. Look at thinkdigit.com forums (if you are a reader of the popular technology magazine Digit, or if you even know about it), there are many such examples. Ankit can tell you better, he is also a member there like me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I understand. Basically you need proof to substantiate your claim. Like I have a very serious complaint against HTC, NONE of their dealers in Kolkata keep HTC accessories . So what kind of pple do they make their dealers .
And thanks to xda, i can't go beyond HTC
hi.
I just wanna know if someone here had see something about the ps3 jailbreak usb with the HD2?
It s running on some android phones, Iphone, nokia... but nothing for Windows phone?
But i found a list on psFreedom.com. there s a Device compatibility list. And in this list There s the HTC HD2 (Android) : in progress!!!
It will be very nice if the PsFreedom works without android... A windows phone hacks a sony PS3.
...
wait n see...
forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=8032122&postcount=791
In Progress
In short for HD2: In Progress (But need android for it to run)
can someone please enlighten me as to what the hell this is all about....
I know what the ps3 jailbreak does but what relevance does that have to the hd2 or any other device...............much confusion.........surely we're not talkin about emulation are we
There is now a way to play backed up ps3 games and people are developing ways to do it on different devices. See here for more detail psx-scene.com the htc desire is one of the lastest devices that can do it
HTCHD2ireland said:
There is now a way to play backed up ps3 games and people are developing ways to do it on different devices. See here for more detail psx-scene.com the htc desire is one of the lastest devices that can do it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and whats wrong with a medium capacity usb flash drive that can be picked up from many good online retailers for less then £5? Why on earth would you want to put your phone anywhere near your ps3? considering that sony will be working on a way to stop the "jailbreak" (what a stupid term anyway. It's a proper hack, done the good ol' fashioned way). You should think yourselves lucky. I remember when if you wanted to play your illegally downloaded games on an xbox or psx you had to get the soldering irons, spend a lot of money on addon chips and hope you had a steady enough hand not to brick your £300 games console but that's what you going to do isn't it? playing illegally downloaded games - probably on your mates ps3 - and your too cheap to buy a usb flash drive and would rather risk letting sony find a way to brick your phone for having the hack saved on it.
Young Sir, you are very foolish. Firstly, you are actually breaking forum rules and secondly your gonna risk your very expensive, frankly awesome smartphone on what i can only describe as a folly.
I will leave you with this thought, though. If you are intent on breaking the law, spend some money on a proper gaming spec pc. At least then no one will be able to make it stop working just because you did what YOU wanted to do with it, instead of doing what the manufacturer wants you to do with it and plus, i'm sure mommy won't mind
this exploit is very interesting for the homebrews, the développement of app... Like the PSP, I buy games but i prefere custom firmware. With him i can do more than a psp with official firmware...
And "secondly your gonna risk your very expensive, frankly awesome smartphone on what i can only describe as a folly." When you do a hspl and whan you flash your phone and you install a new rom... it s not a folly?
sorry for my english...
lol im getting more and more confused now.......
I cant tell whether people are claiming they can emulate the ps3 on the hd2........
(which seems pretty bloody unlikely to me)
Or simply use the hd2 instead of a flash drive to store this alleged "jailbreak" and deploy it to the ps3......
If its the second one............ why the hell would you not just use a flash drive..??
Im not getting into the issues around whether its right to hack your ps3 or not...
Although I certainly wont be risking bricking mine...........
I remember back in the "good old days" of soldering irons..... it was called chipping...... makes me feel old........... and confused
I'll be pissing myself and eating through a tube before long...........
At least I'll have a working phone and ps3 though..
lol! i love it when i'm right!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/technology-11213618
M3PH said:
lol!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/technology-11213618
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So people just want to dl this "jailbreak" onto their hd2 to save on the price of a 4.99 usb stick
Oh well..... get ready for a flood of....... psgroove bricked my hd2 HELP!!!!! type threads......
Safety first Kiddies.........
Just to clarify. The link i posted is confirmation that as of right now the hacks will not work at all if you update your ps3 with the latest security patch and i'm willing to bet a lot of people have blindly done it already, and rightly so, but i do sincerley suspect that is only the first step and there *may* just be a further update that *may* cause data loss or damage to any flash based device that is plugged into the ps3. TBH i really won't put it passed sony to do something like that in an attempt to protect their intellectual property.
Its fair enough as far as im concerned......... you hack it, you risk it.....
the ps3 hasnt exactly been sony's most profitable product so they're bound to try and protect it by any means possible..........
Thanks for clearing that up for me man......
conantroutman said:
Its fair enough as far as im concerned......... you hack it, you risk it.....
the ps3 hasnt exactly been sony's most profitable product so they're bound to try and protect it by any means possible..........
Thanks for clearing that up for me man......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No worries. I've been chuckling my way round the office since i saw that. Lucky prediction or what?
To the OP,
Flashing my phone with a new boot loader and a microsoft approved operating system is by no means a folly as it is reversible. Sony bricking your top of the line smartphone because you broke their terms and conditions, the law - in pretty much every developed country there is - is very much a folly.
To be sure you understand, folly means the following:
A lack of good sense, understanding, or foresight.
An act or instance of foolishness: regretted the follies of his youth.
A costly undertaking having an absurd or ruinous outcome.
Sorry if that seemed condesending but i'm just trying to make sure you get my point. I would say it's not worth the risk (oh, wait, i did) but now it's impossible so the thread is dead
hmmm. If i posted this question here, it s to know if someone here s working on this exploit. it s a challenge... a lot s of good devs do it on Iphone, Android phone, texas instrument, nokia phone, palm phone...
With this exploit we will don t brik a ps3 or a phone or a phone... maybe we can have our psn acount banned... So it s our problem. ^^
hack digitals gadget isn t to have free games... it s for have MORE possibilitys!
homebrews, movies on MKV, retrocompatibility.... etc etc...
If i do a ps3 jailbreak, i assum it... I m an adult, and a father too. ^^
I just tried to know, why the others scenes (iphone, android, symbian...) are more exciting about this...
Sorry if that seemed condesending but i'm just trying to make sure you get my point. I would say it's worth the risk . but now it's always possible. My ps3 is always on the last firmware...
MathieuLH said : don t upgrade your PS3.
^^
héhéhé
Insanity is a matter of perspective: if you think I'm crazy for me to know that the world is crazy...
Seems that THE hd2 Port is finished...
I'm a little confused about this jailbreak thing for the PS3.
Once I jailbreak the PS3 using the HD2 do I ever have to connect it to the PS3 again?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=777120
héhéhé
i didn t try it... maybe this Week End.
M3PH said:
and whats wrong with a medium capacity usb flash drive that can be picked up from many good online retailers for less then £5? Why on earth would you want to put your phone anywhere near your ps3? considering that sony will be working on a way to stop the "jailbreak" (what a stupid term anyway. It's a proper hack, done the good ol' fashioned way). You should think yourselves lucky. I remember when if you wanted to play your illegally downloaded games on an xbox or psx you had to get the soldering irons, spend a lot of money on addon chips and hope you had a steady enough hand not to brick your £300 games console but that's what you going to do isn't it? playing illegally downloaded games - probably on your mates ps3 - and your too cheap to buy a usb flash drive and would rather risk letting sony find a way to brick your phone for having the hack saved on it.
Young Sir, you are very foolish. Firstly, you are actually breaking forum rules and secondly your gonna risk your very expensive, frankly awesome smartphone on what i can only describe as a folly.
I will leave you with this thought, though. If you are intent on breaking the law, spend some money on a proper gaming spec pc. At least then no one will be able to make it stop working just because you did what YOU wanted to do with it, instead of doing what the manufacturer wants you to do with it and plus, i'm sure mommy won't mind
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Were you having a bad day? I never said I was going to use my Hd2 to do this did I? I have no interest in hacking my ps3 because I only play a couple of games and always online so I have no intention of hacking it, but you jump in with two feet and made your presumptions. Your 'my mommy won't mind' comment is a cheap childish attempt to antagonise. Yawn
M3PH said:
Sony bricking your top of the line smartphone because you broke their terms and conditions, the law - in pretty much every developed country there is - is very much a folly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes breaking the law is not a very good or acceptable thing to do and I advice against it. But at the same time a company intentionally damaging someone private property is not acceptable at all and should be looked down on in the same manner.
I know it is a old thread but just had to say that.
Peace
This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Eckyx said:
This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simple answer is no not all devices are made the same. You see this with mass produced hardware. As for your PC ref. My brother and I have the same laptop while mine loves my set up, my brother has nothing but problems with it on his system. It comes alot down to personal set up and device. This has always been the case with mobile devices and custom roms. Stock roms are set to run on all devices the same. This is not so with custom roms.
Eckyx said:
This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Zel pretty neatly answered this, but I will also add that modern consumer electronics interact with the immediate environment far more than our pcs do. Light sensors, 3g radios, barometers, etc. are far less deterministic than our classic closed-loop pcs. Part of this perception of flux is based on this real flux, for example one of the core features people will discuss is call/modem quality, but driver tweaking vs. actual signal strength is a pretty fuzzy battle for anyone but an electrical/firmware engineer. And just like in the pc world, when you're talking under volting and over clocking your mileage will vary.
If you are methodical and read all the materials, your phone will operate tip top. It seems to me a lot (not all) of the variances often do boil down to the users configuration.
Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner
I have fixed a lot of computers and have been flashing custom roms for a year and ill tell you, in my personal opinion, problems are 90% user error. If people would all install properly and wipe everything completely and follow everything they're told to do and read all possible material on what they're flashing they can, a huge portion of the problems would dissapear. But is that gonna happen? I hope so
Heck I make mistakes too. None of us are immune to screwing up right? Good luck all, happy flashing.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Eckyx said:
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they should and they do, absolutely with every ROM, stock or custom.
If they're purely, properly installed, they're all the same.
By "purely", I meant completely, virgin-like ROM without any add-on.
If you choose to install somethings else, to customize your needs or set it up the way you want, then it's a whole different ball game.
zelendel said:
Simple answer is no not all devices are made the same. You see this with mass produced hardware. As for your PC ref. My brother and I have the same laptop while mine loves my set up, my brother has nothing but problems with it on his system. It comes alot down to personal set up and device. This has always been the case with mobile devices and custom roms. Stock roms are set to run on all devices the same. This is not so with custom roms.
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Just to chime in on the Windows thing - we buy a standard build HP computer at work for all developers. But if you put the same Windows disk in two of them and boot and install accepting all the defaults, there will always be slight variations in the way it configures itself between the two. It's probably the hardware detection that does it, but I swear you could get two of the same build lot and you'd STILL get something that didn't set up the same way. Sunspots? Power surge during the process? I dunno, but it does vary
You cant change the disk. Your network adapter has a MAC adress on it... windows will know something has changed. motherboard also has one.
A PC component are not the same at all.
You can buy a good I7 2600k or a bad I7 2600k. There are revisions of the very same model of CPU, memory, everything and its really hard to make 1 equal another.
Another thing is that one smartphone is a lot more delicate piece of hardware and the most important, has limited power to it components.
That makes harder to change anything on it. A small change could lead you to a failure.
just blame it on the ghosts in the machine and be done with it
votinh said:
Yes, they should and they do, absolutely with every ROM, stock or custom.
If they're purely, properly installed, they're all the same.
By "purely", I meant completely, virgin-like ROM without any add-on.
If you choose to install somethings else, to customize your needs or set it up the way you want, then it's a whole different ball game.
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This is not the case. I have tested with two different EVO 4Gs and two different SGS IIs - of the same hardware revision, even.
I performed the same steps to root and ROM both of the sets of phones, and put the same ROM on them. There were no other apps installed, nor themes/addons. I then used each as my phone for a week, making sure that I installed identical apps and even synced app data.
Both performed differently. My i777 is the faster of the two, but my EVO 4G was the slower and more bug-prone.
Yes, this is anecdotal evidence, but I at least am convinced. Take it as you will.
Also the phones are made with lower quality checks than desktop. ie I can oc my sgs 1 up to 1.6GHz but uv of -25, the phone well restart. But other people can't go more than 1.2 and cab apply a uv of -150 on the same step.
This is a fact. Think if every phone it's done with high quality checks the price of the device will raise pretty high.
Once of the frustrating things is that the people responding on the forums, (ROM devs and regular users) often try to have it both ways.
If you're experiencing something they aren't, it's obviously your fault because it doesn't happen on their one phone so it can't possibly be anything but your own fault. Go wipe 50 times and do other things that will take 3+ hours each time and don't come back until you do.
Oh... you've done all that already and still having the issue? Oh well, all phones are different... tough luck, bro. I'm not going to spend any time on anything my one phone doesn't do.
(Never mind that a dozen other people have reported the exact same issue, and another several dozen are experiencing it but are too scared to post about it because they see how everyone else is being flamed, castrated or even banned for daring to suggest a bug.)
One way or another, it seems a convenient way to blow off users having legit issues.
While I suppose there might be slight deviations in components once in a blue moon, I think the "all phones are different" excuse is more often than not used as a way to easily dismiss people and issues without helping. It's been repeated over and over for so long now, the majority take it as "fact" without really putting much thought into how it could possibly be as widespread and dramatic as they're pretending it is.
I don't buy it.
Even just with modems... everyone's like, "Oh well all phones are different... some modems work better on some phones, or in different areas". What kind of BS is that? How on earth could any phone manufacturer then create a mass-market phone that worked across the country without hacking? I'm sorry, but you can't chastise and criticize the manufacturers for not producing the universal "uber-phone" that works great anywhere while at the same time admitting that "all phones are different" and therefore require hacking for your specific flavor or region. It's hypocritical.
I think it's very, very rare that actual hardware differences between the exact same model phone account for issues people experience, and is more often than not either user or dev (as much as they try to paint themselves as infallible gods) error that they don't want to bother with. "All phones are different" = "F-off, I don't want to deal with this"
sremick said:
Once of the frustrating things is that the people responding on the forums, (ROM devs and regular users) often try to have it both ways.
If you're experiencing something they aren't, it's obviously your fault because it doesn't happen on their one phone so it can't possibly be anything but your own fault. Go wipe 50 times and do other things that will take 3+ hours each time and don't come back until you do.
Oh... you've done all that already and still having the issue? Oh well, all phones are different... tough luck, bro. I'm not going to spend any time on anything my one phone doesn't do.
(Never mind that a dozen other people have reported the exact same issue, and another several dozen are experiencing it but are too scared to post about it because they see how everyone else is being flamed, castrated or even banned for daring to suggest a bug.)
One way or another, it seems a convenient way to blow off users having legit issues.
While I suppose there might be slight deviations in components once in a blue moon, I think the "all phones are different" excuse is more often than not used as a way to easily dismiss people and issues without helping. It's been repeated over and over for so long now, the majority take it as "fact" without really putting much thought into how it could possibly be as widespread and dramatic as they're pretending it is.
I don't buy it.
Even just with modems... everyone's like, "Oh well all phones are different... some modems work better on some phones, or in different areas". What kind of BS is that? How on earth could any phone manufacturer then create a mass-market phone that worked across the country without hacking? I'm sorry, but you can't chastise and criticize the manufacturers for not producing the universal "uber-phone" that works great anywhere while at the same time admitting that "all phones are different" and therefore require hacking for your specific flavor or region. It's hypocritical.
I think it's very, very rare that actual hardware differences between the exact same model phone account for issues people experience, and is more often than not either user or dev (as much as they try to paint themselves as infallible gods) error that they don't want to bother with. "All phones are different" = "F-off, I don't want to deal with this"
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Great so what you're saying is everyone that says this (especially devs) are a bunch of dicks. Nice.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
Great so what you're saying is everyone that says this (especially devs) are a bunch of dicks. Nice.
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That's actually not what I said at all, but I know it's a lot easier to summarize my post into one sentence that makes me look like an ass, than actually look at the points that I made.
sremick said:
That's actually not what I said at all, but I know it's a lot easier to summarize my post into one sentence that makes me look like an ass, than actually look at the points that I made.
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I read the whole thing and that's exactly what it says.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
I read the whole thing and that's exactly what it says.
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Nope. But let me simplify it for you:
1) There can't be the level of hardware variation that people claim. It's not seen in other electronics, and it's not been seen before the recent generation of smartphones. The assumption of its existence is a recent phenomenon however if it were real we'd see it everywhere, on other electronics other than phones.
2) If it were to really exist, people would lose the ability to legitimately blame the phone manufacturers for 90% of what they currently give them crap about, especially in regards to making a quality stock ROM. What are they expected to do, create thousands of variations of stock ROMs, one for ever county in the USA to compensate for this accepted "all phones are different" theology?
3) Due to it being repeated over and over and simply assumed to be true without any actual evidence to the fact, it's become a convenient way to dismiss user issues... even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary on a specific issue. This unfortunate trend causes lots of friction between users and devs. Even if it were true, it's now become an over-used dismissal without allowing for the chance that the user might be right.
People can't have it both ways, but right now there's a lot of hypocrisy. If it's true, there's been no evidence actually shown... just anecdotal experiences that could be chalked up to any number of other things. And whether it's true or its not, either way a massive amount of thinking and behavior would then have to then change... but right now, people behave like it's true and not true at the same time, which is nonsensical and frustrating.
The simple answer is, there is no answer. Its the nature of the process.
I've had one click roms fail the 1st attempt only to succeed the 2nd without even closing the Odin just reconnect the phone.
Either you accept that and have fun with it. Or stick to stock and move on.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
sremick said:
Nope. But let me simplify it for you:
1) There can't be the level of hardware variation that people claim. It's not seen in other electronics, and it's not been seen before the recent generation of smartphones. The assumption of its existence is a recent phenomenon however if it were real we'd see it everywhere, on other electronics other than phones.
2) If it were to really exist, people would lose the ability to legitimately blame the phone manufacturers for 90% of what they currently give them crap about, especially in regards to making a quality stock ROM. What are they expected to do, create thousands of variations of stock ROMs, one for ever county in the USA to compensate for this accepted "all phones are different" theology?
3) Due to it being repeated over and over and simply assumed to be true without any actual evidence to the fact, it's become a convenient way to dismiss user issues... even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary on a specific issue. This unfortunate trend causes lots of friction between users and devs. Even if it were true, it's now become an over-used dismissal without allowing for the chance that the user might be right.
People can't have it both ways, but right now there's a lot of hypocrisy. If it's true, there's been no evidence actually shown... just anecdotal experiences that could be chalked up to any number of other things. And whether it's true or its not, either way a massive amount of thinking and behavior would then have to then change... but right now, people behave like it's true and not true at the same time, which is nonsensical and frustrating.
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No you're actually wrong because sometimes things CAN go wrong with flashing stuff. And modems in fact do work better in some places than others even though they try to make them universal it is very difficult to do that. Also, if a dev doesn't see a problem, how is he supposed to fix it? Riddle me that one. Also, restoring should take at most an hour with something like titanium backup. So 3+ hours is bull.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
if a dev doesn't see a problem, how is he supposed to fix it?
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He can start by not flaming the several people experiencing it (which scares away others also experiencing it, self-validating him and making him think the problem is less-common than it really is)
There's a difference between a problem being simply difficult for a dev to pin down and solve, and just attacking any user who dares bring up an issue that the dev himself isn't experiencing. Therein lies the hypocrisy, though: if "all phones are different", then a dev has to accept that a problem a user is experiencing might not be the result of stupidity on the user's part, and might actually be something in the ROM that simply didn't surface on the dev's phone, but is still something that needs to be addressed at the ROM level.
I totally accept that an issue the dev can't reproduce on his own phone is harder to resolve. But there are several devs who even make ROMs for phones they don't own anymore, and still manage to work with users to resolve issues. App devs do the same thing to resolve incompatibility bugs/issues with specific phone models the app dev don't own.
Also, restoring should take at most an hour with something like titanium backup. So 3+ hours is bull.
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Not quite. Just the backup alone takes 45+ mins on my phone. The restore is the same amount, so you've got 1.5 hours right there without taking into account everything else that TB doesn't handle that needs to be reconfigured by hand, or the actual flashing, and tracking down other surprises. And because I apparently am one of the few people who care about their data, I also back up my internal SD... just in-case something goes wrong. I know the wipe shouldn't touch it... but "**** happens" and if something goes wrong during a flash and I didn't have a backup, it'd be my own fault and I'd be subsequently flamed for that. So I play it safe.
Once again, a case of users for whom its quick trying to tell everyone else they're full of BS. I accept that for some users, whether it's the # of apps, amount of data, or whatever, it goes fast for them. Lucky them. Why can't they accept the fact that it's not "10 mins" for everyone like they spread around and flame others for suggesting otherwise?
Ok Here is the thing. I have personally been flashing and making custom roms for phones as far back as the Motorola razor v3. I have multiple phone running the exact same firmware, set up the exact same way and the have run totally differently. If all phone were made equal then there would be no returns due to issues the phone had as they would have all run the same and acted the same as the units that the OEM quality control tested. Lets take the Black Jack 2 as an example. The BJII was a WM phone that would self corrupt the system/media folder. This prevented any ringtones from working and the OS had to be reflashed. All this running on Stock firmware. This didnt happen to all of them, but became a well known glitch to anyone that did cell phone troubleshooting and repair. Did you ever stop to think why OEM and carriers dont use the roms from places like XDA? This is because things here are always under development. There will always be bugs. In the end the developers are making things for their phones and are nice enough to share it for others to use. Some do keep making roms for phones they dont have as this is overly not hard to do. They do this just to be nice. Except for the hardware drivers most of the under lying OS is all the same.
If a dev cant reproduce it then there is no way for them to fix it with the way people tend to report bugs. (The wrong way without the proper info)
Now lets jump to the present. I have 4 phones sitting on my desk. 2 are the HTC Inspire and 2 are the Samsung Captivate. Both running the exact same rom and apps, but guess what. They run very differently. On 1 Inspire and 1 captivate, I can OC to almost double, while the other 2 cant handle more then 1.2 over clock.
One of them also doesnt like the AOSP based software while the others are fine.
As for your backing up and restoring. It can take a long time if you have a TON of apps. Flashing custom roms are not for everyone. If you dont have the time or the want to learn something then you are doing it for the wrong reasons.
sremick said:
He can start by not flaming the several people experiencing it (which scares away others also experiencing it, self-validating him and making him think the problem is less-common than it really is)
There's a difference between a problem being simply difficult for a dev to pin down and solve, and just attacking any user who dares bring up an issue that the dev himself isn't experiencing. Therein lies the hypocrisy, though: if "all phones are different", then a dev has to accept that a problem a user is experiencing might not be the result of stupidity on the user's part, and might actually be something in the ROM that simply didn't surface on the dev's phone, but is still something that needs to be addressed at the ROM level.
I totally accept that an issue the dev can't reproduce on his own phone is harder to resolve. But there are several devs who even make ROMs for phones they don't own anymore, and still manage to work with users to resolve issues. App devs do the same thing to resolve incompatibility bugs/issues with specific phone models the app dev don't own.
Not quite. Just the backup alone takes 45+ mins on my phone. The restore is the same amount, so you've got 1.5 hours right there without taking into account everything else that TB doesn't handle that needs to be reconfigured by hand, or the actual flashing, and tracking down other surprises. And because I apparently am one of the few people who care about their data, I also back up my internal SD... just in-case something goes wrong. I know the wipe shouldn't touch it... but "**** happens" and if something goes wrong during a flash and I didn't have a backup, it'd be my own fault and I'd be subsequently flamed for that. So I play it safe.
Once again, a case of users for whom its quick trying to tell everyone else they're full of BS. I accept that for some users, whether it's the # of apps, amount of data, or whatever, it goes fast for them. Lucky them. Why can't they accept the fact that it's not "10 mins" for everyone like they spread around and flame others for suggesting otherwise?
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I agree with your point about the dev/user relationship. It can get pretty hostile sometimes which is completely unnecessary. Recently, I've been trying to emphasize the respect rule, regardless of who you are. Patience and cooperation can go a long way. And as zelendel said, sometimes people do report stuff the wrong way, but there's no need to be rude about it. Again, patience goes a long way.
Back to the main thing though, I'm not entirely sure how 2 fresh-out-of-the-box phones would work with the same settings and ROMs, but as others said, environmental and external factors can stress the phone and stuff just goes wrong. My phone, for example, would not operate the same as a fresh-out-of-the-box SGS2, even if you put the exact same stuff on it. Stuff just starts freaking out, and I'm pretty sure my phone is having hardware issues :[
i wanna buy a phone and i searched for it a lot because my sony z3+ was really bad and made me sad a lot.....plz tell me about this phone.battery and heat and android os(is that really pure android?how is the interface?)and screen and etc .because i had a brain tumor i can not work with screens that hurt my eyes.does this phone hurt eys?ty all
Don't buy this phone
A total waste of 240$ !!!
No support from UMIDIGI to serious software bugs
I've not noticed any "serious software bugs". What do you mean?
hotphil said:
I've not noticed any "serious software bugs". What do you mean?
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Look at this. The moderator has deleted several posts from me. Also I've been banned three times, just to complain about the problems found in the ROM and the bad treatment received by the company.
Never more Mediatek and above all never more UMIDIGI.
Sorry, but not knowing how to use a product is different from the product being bad.
I was going to answer you, but ... I'll just ignore you.
Not worth it.
That's fine. But in that thread all you've posted is that there's "problems" with battery, camera and Bluetooth. You've posted no details. Kinda makes it hard for them to help you. And, as an aside, there's not many other people reporting the same issues. That's a very long way from being "bugs" that affect all units/users.
Interesting, a whole thread full of users who do not know how to use their mobile and can not distinguish a bug from its clumsiness.
Luckily we have experts like you who know how to light our way.
Thank you for your valuable help.
I have an umi z and i definitiefly say "dont buy any umi phone !!!"
It's true ,my battery gets swollen after 3 month of normal using and you have no chance to get a simple answer to your mails to the support team.
On a umidigi forum a "developer " just talking bull**** to us customer.
hotphil said:
That's fine. But in that thread all you've posted is that there's "problems" with battery, camera and Bluetooth. You've posted no details. Kinda makes it hard for them to help you. And, as an aside, there's not many other people reporting the same issues. That's a very long way from being "bugs" that affect all units/users.
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I really love the fan boys who use the phone no more than to browse facebook and make calls. We posted the issues they are the ones who did not ask for details. Al they do is saying "oh, we dont have that problem on our testing devices". learn to read more or come earlier to read the deleted posts and maybe you find more about how useless umidigi is.
Just saying that if the vast majority of users aren't having those issues then you've been unlucky or there's something else wrong.
hotphil said:
Just saying that if the vast majority of users aren't having those issues then you've been unlucky or there's something else wrong.
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The vast majority does not know what a damn 4k is altough the processor supports. The vast majority does not now what Volte is and does not needs it because they dont know what it does. The vast majority does not use bluetooth as a principle. The vast majority has the phone to say it is deca core without knowing what that really is