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so as the title says, is it possible to remove the 30fps limit on games, because the games work very good but compared to the iphone they aren't smooth enough...
There is no 30fps limit.
You are trying to compare very different stuff, bad idea
As example, you are trying to compare two computers with different graphics cards. Will Mafia II run as smooth on a GeForce 8800GTS than on Radeon 5970 ? I don't think so
And that's just an example, as hardware is different (CPU, GPU, RAM amount) and software also is (Android vs iOS).
If you want maximum perf, you should try Custom roms as they delete Rachael UI, GORGEOUS performance eater.
I've seen a lot of threads discussing how much of a game-changer the Adreno 220 should be, and I've seen plenty of videos of benchmarks, but outside of Samurai II: Vengeance, I haven't seen any games that really "wow" me with their graphics.
I know we're on Android, and our market is fragmented to hell thanks to all of the hardware differences.
I'm coming from an HTC Evo 4G, which had fairly abysmal GPU performance.
Games I've tried so far:
Samurai II - Vengeance (awesome to see this kind of graphic quality AND framerate)
Dungeon Defenders: FW Deluxe (not my kind of game, but runs much better than on OG Evo)
Pocket Legends, which really isn't impressive
Any suggestions? I hate to give a thumbs-up to something in the iOS camp, but I really was impressed with Infinity Blade on my friend's iPhone4 and iPad2.
EDIT: I should clarify that I'm hoping to find something that looks better than a first-generation 3D Nintendo DS game, which the majority of Gameloft games look like.
shymog said:
I've seen a lot of threads discussing how much of a game-changer the Adreno 220 should be, and I've seen plenty of videos of benchmarks, but outside of Samurai II: Vengeance, I haven't seen any games that really "wow" me with their graphics.
I know we're on Android, and our market is fragmented to hell thanks to all of the hardware differences.
I'm coming from an HTC Evo 4G, which had fairly abysmal GPU performance.
Games I've tried so far:
Samurai II - Vengeance (awesome to see this kind of graphic quality AND framerate)
Dungeon Defenders: FW Deluxe (not my kind of game, but runs much better than on OG Evo)
Pocket Legends, which really isn't impressive
Any suggestions? I hate to give a thumbs-up to something in the iOS camp, but I really was impressed with Infinity Blade on my friend's iPhone4 and iPad2.
EDIT: I should clarify that I'm hoping to find something that looks better than a first-generation 3D Nintendo DS game, which the majority of Gameloft games look like.
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Thanks for the heads up on samurai 2 I ma download it and back to topic well i don't think will see much till the next update of android(ice cream) is released and hopefully take advantage of the duel cores phones
If you don't have an Evo3d well you don't have an Evo3d
shymog said:
I've seen a lot of threads discussing how much of a game-changer the Adreno 220 should be, and I've seen plenty of videos of benchmarks, but outside of Samurai II: Vengeance, I haven't seen any games that really "wow" me with their graphics.
I know we're on Android, and our market is fragmented to hell thanks to all of the hardware differences.
I'm coming from an HTC Evo 4G, which had fairly abysmal GPU performance.
Games I've tried so far:
Samurai II - Vengeance (awesome to see this kind of graphic quality AND framerate)
Dungeon Defenders: FW Deluxe (not my kind of game, but runs much better than on OG Evo)
Pocket Legends, which really isn't impressive
Any suggestions? I hate to give a thumbs-up to something in the iOS camp, but I really was impressed with Infinity Blade on my friend's iPhone4 and iPad2.
EDIT: I should clarify that I'm hoping to find something that looks better than a first-generation 3D Nintendo DS game, which the majority of Gameloft games look like.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look up Chainfire3D, lets you run Tegra 2 games on your phone and the processor is more than capable of running it well!
Simple answer is that NO games take advantage of the Adreno 220 GPU. You can download Chainfire 3D for free from the marketplace, it's basically a video driver that enables you to play Tegra 2 exclusive games. Actually, this hardly even takes advantage at all of our hardware. You can actually run just about all of the Tegra exclusive games on the og Evo. Simple answer is that no current games take advantage of it. If you look at the iPhone 4, it has a powervr sgx535, which is about the equivalent of an Adreno 205, you can kind of get an idea how much faster the Adreno 220 is, don't forget we have a higher clock speed and an extra core. The stupid thing is though, is that technology is moving so fast, we are going to have quad-cores in our phones before apps and games take advantage of dual-core devices.
ellisperkins said:
Simple answer is that NO games take advantage of the Adreno 220 GPU. You can download Chainfire 3D for free from the marketplace, it's basically a video driver that enables you to play Tegra 2 exclusive games. Actually, this hardly even takes advantage at all of our hardware. You can actually run just about all of the Tegra exclusive games on the og Evo. Simple answer is that no current games take advantage of it. If you look at the iPhone 4, it has a powervr sgx535, which is about the equivalent of an Adreno 205, you can kind of get an idea how much faster the Adreno 220 is, don't forget we have a higher clock speed and an extra core. The stupid thing is though, is that technology is moving so fast, we are going to have quad-cores in our phones before apps and games take advantage of dual-core devices.
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Just like the ps3 hasn't been bush to its limits, man I remeber the first ps2 games how crappy the look and at the end they were looking so sweet (4-5 years later)
If you don't have an Evo3d well you don't have an Evo3d
The biggest issue is that we still don't have much to show off the OG Evo's Adreno. We don't have a "killer app" 3d game. Also, the whole Tegra thing ticks me off. I know nVidia is channeling money for exclusive games/features and ChainFire3D still has issues with some games (I have issues with GoF2 either having disappearing textures or FCs).
Qualcomm really needs to take some pride in the Adreno and start funding some developers.
I installed Chainfire, now how do I get access to tegra 2 games. I can't install tegra zone.
In ChainFire, choose "Fix Market", you won't be able to install Tegra Zone but you will be able to find THD games if you search by name.
i did the build. prop to play order and chaos and it allow me to install tegra zone on my evo 3d
chamucoliz said:
i did the build. prop to play order and chaos and it allow me to install tegra zone on my evo 3d
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what line/s did you add or edit?
How the hell did you get Dungeon Defenders working on your device? Keeps closing on me!
on this link you can find the instructions some one else posted on how to change to build.prop which allows for order and chaos to play and to instal the tegra zone app from the market. enjoy
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1202235
ignore i posted in wrong place by mistake
Just thanked a few of you for your responses. I wanted to add a couple of things for clarification however (especially to any future readers). First off, the free version of Chainfire 3D ain't gonna do it. Second, after editing build.prop and installing Chainfire 3D, you have to install the Nvidia driver (like explained in the tutorial link in an earlier post). THEN, (after possibly a few re-boots as described in the tutorial) you have to download whatever nvidia game you want. Now my experience was that when I launched the game by tapping on the icon, it didn't look right or it would force close. I actually had to open Chainfire 3D, then play with the settings for each app and launch them from within Chainfire.
Now I've got Galaxy on Fire 2 running pretty well. I love a good hack!
Well, after messing around with Chainfire3d a bit and downloading the NVIDIA plugin, I decided to give some Tegra-supported games a shot!
4 CONFIRMED WORKING SO FAR! Still testing games! If you want to help, feel free to test some as well and post your results!
Keep in mind that SOME (not all) of these games ARE HUGE, so make sure you have plenty of space on your internal/phone storage prior to downloading the data online! I think GOF2 THD was about 500+MB of additionally downloaded data.
Here is what works so far with my device at 1GHz + NVIDIA chainfire3d plugin + MSAA 4x enabled :
1.) GOF2 THD <-- Looks AMAZING (though is a rather simple game) , I didn't think the SGP could output such sharp graphics considering it's fairly weak GPU! And the framerate is more than playable!
~ WITHOUT THE PLUGIN IT WILL BE BLACK AND WHITE WITH "NO" 3D TEXTURES. PLEASE MAKE SURE TO APPLY THE "NVIDIA" PLUGIN FOR THIS GAME PRIOR TO PLAYING
~ NOTE THAT THIS GAME USES A "TON" OF RAM! AROUND 130MB, SO PLEASE CLOSE OTHER APPLICATIONS/GAMES PRIOR TO PLAYING!
2.) AirAttack HD Part 1 - Works just fine! The graphics look pretty darn good for a top down kind of arcade-ish game!
~ Uses around 61mb of RAM, so not really a hog.
~ Doesn't seem to slow down the CPU @ 1GHz
~ Works!
3.) Riptide GP
~ Looks AMAZING
~ Runs extremely smooth at max resolution
~ Make sure to set the NVIDIA plugin and enable 4x MSAA
~ RUNS PERFECT! =)
4.) Shine Runner (Tegra)
~ Looks amazing!
~ Runs very smoothly
~ High quality textures!
~ Make sure to use the NVIDIA plugin and enable 4x MSAA!
Games THAT DO NOT WORK (At least at the moment, messing with settings may allow them to work, or overclocking to higher frequencies over 1GHz)
2.) SoulCraft BETA <--- Uses 130MB~ RAM (which is doable) , but the CPU struggles with it @ 1GHz, may work better at higher clocks.
THIS GAME MAY REQUIRE OVERCLOCKING TO BE ABLE TO BE RUN --- Not interested in testing that atm, but if you do, let us know!
~ Update 11:42 EST - Crashed at around 91% loaded, going to try again.
~ Update 11:46 EST - Crashed again, trying with textures lowered/dropped to 16bit, still no luck. This game may work with overclocking.
3.) Not sure what to test next, have any games you'd like to test?
Let's see what else we can play! If you own any Tegra games (I don't have the money to toss around for random games atm, like Shadowgun) at the moment for other devices; Use the market fix to make THD games show up, download, set the plugin to NVIDIA and give it a shot!
Post your results here and i'll add them to the main post!
Happy gaming all!
New find! We can play some THD games in much higher resolution. It makes Fruit Ninja THD look a lot better. Almost double+ the resolution.
Download "Spare Parts Plus" from the market and disable the option about compatibility for older applications and reboot, then you'll see the stunning difference (at least in the Fruit Ninja THD app).
Modern HD gaming is becoming a little easier for SGP owners!
Now we just need a way to enable a little higher MSAA (Higher than 4x) to smooth out edges in 3D games and it'll be perfect considering it's lack of modern hardware!
Enjoy everyone!!!!
*reserved for more games*
*reserved*
I can play shadowgun, runs fine, still no slowdowns.
just want to know how noticable the difference in GPU performance is vs the iPhone 4S graphics. Iv seen all the benchmarks, however I dont believe they measure accurately so therefore i am just wondering how different or noticable the graphics are in comparison...
1) Benchmarks are utterly pointless/meaningless. They do not even remotely simulate real world use.
2) How do you make an honest/objective/realistic comparison between two phones with completely different hardware ? Answer: You can't. Any comparison made will be purely subjective/opinion only.
peterdan1506 said:
just want to know how noticable the difference in GPU performance is vs the iPhone 4S graphics. Iv seen all the benchmarks, however I dont believe they measure accurately so therefore i am just wondering how different or noticable the graphics are in comparison...
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Ive yet to play a game on the sgs2 that doesnt run super smooth....
Riptide gp, dead space etc
Should developers start making more advanced games to maximize GPU potential, the iphone4s will reach its bottleneck for its 800mhz cpu anyway.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Last summer, I decided to buy a Nexus 7 for using it mainly as an ebook reader. It's perfect for that with its very sharp 1280x800 screen. It was my first Android device and I love this little tablet.
I'm a fan of retro gaming and I installed emulators on every device I have: Pocket PC, Xbox, PSP Go, iPhone, iPad3, PS3. So I discovered that the Android platform was one of the most active community for emulation fans like me and I bought many of them, and all those made by Robert Broglia (.EMU series). They were running great on the N7 but I found that 16GB was too small, as was the screen.
I waited and waited until the 32 GB Nexus 10 became available here in Canada and bought it soon after (10 days ago). With its A15 cores, I was expecting the N10 to be a great device for emulation but I am now a little disapointed. When buying the N10, I expected everything to run faster than on the N7 by a noticeable margin.
Many emulators run slower on the N10 than on the N7. MAME4Ddroid and MAME4Droid reloaded are no longer completely smooth with more demanding ROMs, Omega 500, Colleen, UAE4droid and SToid are slower and some others needed much more tweaking than on the N7. I'm a little extreme on accuracy of emulation and I like everything to be as close to the real thing as possible. A solid 60 fps for me is a must (or 50 fps for PAL machines).
On the other side, there are other emus that ran very well: the .EMU series and RetroArch for example. These emulators are much more polished than the average quick port and they run without a flaw. They're great on the 10-inch screen and I enjoy them very much. The CPU intensive emulators (Mupen64Plus AE and FPSE) gained some speed but less that I anticipated.
So is this because of the monster Nexus 10's 2560x1600 resolution? Or is it because of limited memory bandwith? Maybe some emulators are not tweaked for the N10 yet. I wish some emulators had the option to set a lower resolution for rendering and then upscale the output. I think that many Android apps just try to push the frames to the native resolution without checking first if there is a faster way.
The N7 has a lower clocked 4 core CPU but has only 1/4 the resolution. I think that it's a more balanced device that the N10 which may have a faster dual core CPU but too much pixels to push. It's much like the iPad3 who was twice as fast as the iPad2 but had a 4x increase in resolution.
I am now considering going for a custom ROM on the N10 but I wonder if I will see an increase in emulation speed. Maybe those of you who did the jump can tell me. I'm thinking about AOKP maybe.
Any suggestion on that would be appreciated, thanks!
The emulators just need to be tweaked a bit to better perform on the completely different processor architecture. Really our processor is far more powerful than the Nexus 7 so the emulators should run faster. I too am a fan of the old games, and I play Super Nintendo and Game Boy Advance (and some Color) games quite often. I find performance to be perfect with no issues at all, but then again those arent exactly "demanding" emulators.
We do not have any sort of memory bandwidth limitation on the Nexus 10. The tablet has been designed to give the full needed 12.8 GB/s of memory bandwidth that is required for 2560x1600 resolution.
EniGmA1987 said:
The emulators just need to be tweaked a bit to better perform on the completely different processor architecture. Really our processor is far more powerful than the Nexus 7 so the emulators should run faster. I too am a fan of the old games, and I play Super Nintendo and Game Boy Advance (and some Color) games quite often. I find performance to be perfect with no issues at all, but then again those arent exactly "demanding" emulators.
We do not have any sort of memory bandwidth limitation on the Nexus 10. The tablet has been designed to give the full needed 12.8 GB/s of memory bandwidth that is required for 2560x1600 resolution.
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Hmm, if no memory bandwidth limitation exists on the N10, wouldn't I be able to run GTA 3 at 100% screen resolution and not have significantly lower FPS, as compared to 50% resolution?
Even Beat Hazard Ultra seems to be a bit laggy on the N10. When I inquired about it to the developer, he said:
Having to render to that size of screen [2560x1600] will slow the game down. It’s called being ‘fill rate bound’. Even for a good processor it's a lot of work as the game uses quite a lot of overdraw.
The solution is to draw everything to a smaller screen (say half at 1280x800) and then stretch the final image to fill the screen.
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A sad true my nexus 10 get dam hot and i have to play games at 1.4 or 1.2 that sux
Sent from my XT925 using xda app-developers app
espionage724 said:
Hmm, if no memory bandwidth limitation exists on the N10, wouldn't I be able to run GTA 3 at 100% screen resolution and not have significantly lower FPS, as compared to 50% resolution?
Even Beat Hazard Ultra seems to be a bit laggy on the N10. When I inquired about it to the developer, he said:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But fillrate isnt memory bandwidth. We need both more MHz and more raster operations to get higher fill rate of pixels per second. We can overclock the GPU to get the MHz, and that will help, but we have to find a way to solve the higher heat output too from that. More ROP's are impossible as it is a hardware design for how many we have. If we ever get to overclock up to around 750 MHz then we should see a 30-40% improvement in fill rate. At that point we may have memory bandwidth problems, but we wont know for sure until we get there. But the 12.8GB/s of bandwidth that we currently have is enough to support 2560x1600 resolution at our current GPU power. Our Nexus 10 also has the highest fillrate of any Android phone or tablet to date, about 1.4 Mtexel/s. And if we have memory bandwidth limitations, then we would see no improvement at all from the current overclock we do have up to 612-620MHz because the speed wouldnt be where the bottleneck is. Yet we can clearly see in benchmarks and real gaming that we get FPS increases with higher MHz, thus our current problem is the fillrate and not the memory bandwidth.
Also, the solution is not to render the game at half the resolution as that is a band-aid on the real problem. If the developer of a game would code the game properly we wouldnt have this problem, or if they dont feel like doing that then they should at least stop trying to put more into the game than their un-optimized, lazy project is capable of running nicely.
espionage724 said:
Hmm, if no memory bandwidth limitation exists on the N10, wouldn't I be able to run GTA 3 at 100% screen resolution and not have significantly lower FPS, as compared to 50% resolution?
Even Beat Hazard Ultra seems to be a bit laggy on the N10. When I inquired about it to the developer, he said:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With that logic you could buy any video card for a PC and it would run any game at the resolution the video card supports. That isn't the case because rendering involves more than just memory fill rate. There are textures, polygons, multiple rendering passes, filtering, it goes on and on. As EniGmA1987 mentioned nothing has been optimized to take advantage of this hardware yet, developers were literally crossing their fingers hoping their games would run 'as is'. thankfully the A15 cpu cores in the exynos will be used in the tegra 4 as well so we can look forward to the CPU optimizations soon which will definitely help.
Emulators are more cpu intensive than anything else, give it a little time and you won't have any problems with your old school games. Run the new 3DMark bench to see what this tablet can do, it runs native resolution and its not even fully optimized for this architecture yet.
2560*1600*4*60/1024/1024 = 937,3 MB/s for a 60 fps game at 32-bit depth. Most emulators don't use 3D functions so fillrate, rendering, overdraw won't be a factor. Most emulators are single-threaded (correct me if I'm wrong) and the A15 should shine in this particular situation and even more so in multi-threaded scenarios. With its out-of-order pipeline and greatly enhanced efficiency it should be perfectly suited for the job.
We have the fillrate, we have enough CPU power and I'm still wondering why simple app like emulators aren't much faster than that. Is it Android? Is it the Dalvik VM? Or is it because some emulators need to be written in native code instead of using Java VM? I'm not a developer and I have only minimal knowledge in this department. I can only speculate but I'm curious enough about it that I started googling around to find why.
Lodovik said:
2560*1600*4*60/1024/1024 = 937,3 MB/s for a 60 fps game at 32-bit depth
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Just curious but what is that calculation supposed to be? total bandwidth needed? Cause I don't see your bit depth in there, unless the 4 is supposed to be that? If that is true than you are calculating on 4-bit color depth?
And then the result would just be bandwidth required for pixel data to memory wouldnt it? It wouldnt include texture data in and out of memory and other special functions like post processing.
2560*1600 = number of pixels on the screen
4 = bytes / pixels for 32-bits depth
60 = frames / second
/1024/1024 = divide twice to get the result in MB
Actually, I made a typo the result is 937,5 MB/s or 0.92 GB/s. This is just a rough estimate to get an idea of what is needed at this resolution just to push the all pixels on the screen in flat 2D at 60 fps, assuming that emulators don't use accelerated functions.
My point was that with 12.8 GB/s of memory bandwith, we should have more than enough even if this estimate isn't very accurate.
Thanks for the explanation
If there really were a memory bandwidth limitation the newer Trinity kernels and newest KTManta should help. In addition to the higher GPU speed they both allow (KTManta up to 720MHz) both ROM's have increased memory speeds which increase memory bandwidth to 13.8GB/s, up from 12.8 on stock.
Thanks for the info. There's so many configuration options available for the Nexus 10. I really enjoy having all those possibilities.
EniGmA1987 said:
If there really were a memory bandwidth limitation the newer Trinity kernels and newest KTManta should help. In addition to the higher GPU speed they both allow (KTManta up to 720MHz) both ROM's have increased memory speeds which increase memory bandwidth to 13.8GB/s, up from 12.8 on stock.
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Click to collapse
=Lodovik;40030*1600*4*60/1024/1024 = 937,3 MB/s for a 60 fps game at 32-bit depth. Most emulators don't use 3D functions so fillrate, rendering, overdraw won't be a factor. Most emulators are single-threaded (correct me if I'm wrong) and the A15 should shine in this particular situation and even more so in multi-threaded scenarios. With its out-of-order pipeline and greatly enhanced efficiency it should be perfectly suited for the job.
We have the fillrate, we have enough CPU power and I'm still wondering why simple app like emulators aren't much faster than that. Is it Android? Is it the Dalvik VM? Or is it because some emulators need to be written in native code instead of using Java VM? I'm not a developer and I have only minimal knowledge in this department. I can only speculate but I'm curious enough about it that I started googling around to find why.
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You are taking what I said out of context. I was responding to someone else, thus the "quote" above my post.
Since you posted I loaded up some Super Nintendo, N64, and PlayStation games on my n10 without any issues. It may just be your setup. There are a lot of tweaks out there that could easily increase performance. One great and very simple one is enabling 2D GPU rendering which is in developer options. Just do some searching. GPU Overclocking won't help much, as you said above your games are only 2D. I am sure you can get them running just fine.