Related
The Cingular forums are now shutting down discussion re the new ROMS ... nice ... just trying to keep us from helping each other out (you would think it would be to their benefit, so folks don't bug their non-existent customer service)
see here for all the gory details.
This is getting more and more ridiculus by the day
Hallllllo M$ and providers. when we buy a device we ALREDY get a licenced WM, what's your problem???????????????????????????????????????
weinson said:
The Cingular forums are now shutting down discussion re the new ROMS ... nice ... just trying to keep us from helping each other out (you would think it would be to their benefit, so folks don't bug their non-existent customer service)
see here for all the gory details.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the thread has been resurrected for the time being...no idea how long that will last though.
This is just like Cingular, I have been told that this update would be out since Dec. by Cingular sales and it never has. We cannot help it if Cingular is so slow on getting updated services out. If they would put more effort in service and less on what they are going to call them selfs maybe they could supply better service. I have 19 cingular accounts and may move all of them if they don't get there act together.
Steven -
Do what my wife did, she is part of the State of FL gov contract on Cingular and she has a fair bit of power in moving accounts so she basically said if you can't support your gear with updated ROMs maybe she would move accounts somewhere else.
I doubt they care but who knows...
so many dumb-ass flashed their phones w/o reading the instructions, bricked their phones and start to call Cingular/ATT for help/repair/replacement. Next thing we know, MS is trying to remove all ROMs, ATT removing thread about new ROMs....
That's y we should make this community go underground, ban the suckers who don't read, link ROMs to rapidshare or other similar sites instead of this site's FTP server.
It's sad to see we have to remove the ROMs but I wouldn't blame MS or ATT for asking XDA-developers to do so.
Oh, btw, if you guys care go sign the petition, show us some supports even if we dont get what we want.
peace.
It's the War on Common Sense. And since all of us are a minority here, ignorance and misinformation prevail.
The main reason Big Business does this is because the executives are a much older generation that is scared and terribly confused by the Internet. So to them, we're all looking to ruin their business by making their phones work in ways they didn't intend for them to be used. What they don't know is, our solutions are much better than the ones they provide (hence the void we're filling by being here, supporting, and working out their phones for free) and if they were to release even just half of the ROMs the XDA community cooked up, they'd have a much happier customer base.
steven814 said:
This is just like Cingular, I have been told that this update would be out since Dec. by Cingular sales and it never has. We cannot help it if Cingular is so slow on getting updated services out. If they would put more effort in service and less on what they are going to call them selfs maybe they could supply better service. I have 19 cingular accounts and may move all of them if they don't get there act together.
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Cingular/AT&T is pretty much the only carrier with even a _leaked_ rom... so how are you going to say that they're slow? They're actually ahead of the curve, in my opinion.
The 8525 came out in November. I'm pretty sure that there must have been some miscommunication if you recall someone in December told you the Rom would be out tomorrow (or any specific immediate timeframe). "Soon" is not necessarily "one month" or less. I think sometimes we hear and preceive what we WANT to be the truth based on what we actually _did_ hear. I mean, as far as I can tell, HTC just released the 3.3 rom to carriers a matter of weeks ago. Cingular has been working on things other carriers aren't doing, too (PTT, Cingular Video, etc.) So they're putting more into the rom than most of our European counterparts need to (with the exception of video calling... yet.)
I guess what I'm saying is that we, as enthusiasts, expect more than the average customer. And as for Cingular / AT&T, of course they don't want to be providing support for an unofficial and likely unfinished rom. Honestly, having inexperienced and impatient Cingular customers reading about this leaked rom and trying to put it on their devices prematurely would certainly cause a terrible amount of problems. Again... it's _leaked_ and _unofficial_, so they should not feel like they have to support it.
Just my 2/3 of a nickel.
GliTCH82 said:
It's the War on Common Sense. And since all of us are a minority here, ignorance and misinformation prevail.
The main reason Big Business does this is because the executives are a much older generation that is scared and terribly confused by the Internet. So to them, we're all looking to ruin their business by making their phones work in ways they didn't intend for them to be used. What they don't know is, our solutions are much better than the ones they provide (hence the void we're filling by being here, supporting, and working out their phones for free) and if they were to release even just half of the ROMs the XDA community cooked up, they'd have a much happier customer base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree. I believe the truth is if they released half the roms on here, they're customers WOULD be confused, scared, and lost because they have no idea what rom they should be running. They'd have no idea why something doesn't work perfectly on one rom and better on another. Or why one radio may or may not be better. Think about how many people on here aren't reading everything they need to and bricking or nearly bricking their devices. And these are the ones SEEKING the information. The average 8525 user on Cingular's network isn't quite as interested in this stuff as we are here.
Knowledge is power, but unstable power is chaos.
Think about it.
Xda-Developers is a great source for those seeking to know more about their devices than just its typical uses. But anyone who really wants the knowledge will seek it out and find it (just as we all did). Throwing an incomplete rom at the average lawyer who needs Microsoft Direct Push and not much more is likely to cause more problems than it's worth for AT&Tingular as well as for us (because we'll be the ones trying to clean up the mess).
I think I should sign off on this before I infuriate some of those out there who just want to vent their frustration. And we all know the company with the dollars is always a great target to do that.
Does't surprise me in the slightest.
I am sure many OEMs and phone companies are sick of people bricking their phones and claiming warranties (of course they never admit to using cooked ROMs or even trying to upgrade them - 'Just woke up one morning and it wouldn't boot up').
I enjoy this forum too but don't tell me it doesn't encourage people to do things they shouldn't, and are not willing to take responsiblity for.
esseff said:
I enjoy this forum too but don't tell me it doesn't encourage people to do things they shouldn't, and are not willing to take responsiblity for.
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Click to collapse
I have to disagree with that statement... I wasnt aware that giving warnings to the users that flashing their phone could brick it and that they need to read and make sure they fully understand what they are doing before they do it was encouragement... I know that when i came to this board and saw the warnings about flashing cooked roms it freaked me out.. i was registered for several months before i ever made a post, spent countless hours reading all the threads to make sure i fully understood my device before i did anything to it.. its the people that dont read and brick their phone that want to come back and blame us for their mistake.. This is a developers board and quite frankly alot of us go out of the way of development to help people in need... we especially go above and beyond any kind of help that you would recieve from your provider
My 2c
I have to agree with shogunmark. I know I made very sure I read every last thread and wiki before I attempted anything as rash as upgrading a Radio stack. This was because of my fear of bricking the unit, because so many people warned it could. I was even willing to endure the mass "RTFM" and "RTFW" flaming if i wanted to make sure I understood everything correctly before risking my device.
I believe the largest part of this community are users that gather here in the spirit of sharing the knowledge about the device to encourage greater growth of the community- the more people, the more mods & hacks & cracks and experiences will become part of the knowledge base.
yet im still trying to figure out how "MAY BRICK YOUR DEVICE" warnings are encouraging...
Come on guys!
Sure there are countless warinings but simply the enthusiasm and excitement amongst the experienced crew, when a new possibliity appears (GPS, WM6, AKU this, AKU that) causes less experience people to get caught up in it.
I'm not for one minute discouraging XDA developing, just TAKE RESPONSIBLILITY IF YOU BRICK YOUR DEVICE AND DON'T GO CRYING TO THE OEM OR TELCO FOR WARANTY. Pay for your mistake and buy another.
I have seen, on this forum people advising others to go back to their supplier with bricked devices and try to get a warranty. It is hard for the supplier to argue with someone who says their device 'Just stopped working', when infact they bricked it, and in the spirit of good customer relations they often replace it. Why wouldn't suppliers be negative toward forums like these when they are placed in this situation.
Sigh... I've been told that HTC's single greatest returned device is the Wizard followed closely by the Hermes. Reason: bricked.
We post the warnings, but plenty of people don't take the time to fully understand then brick their devices anyway (hermes is especially bad in this respect). Then they try to return them.
In many ways, this is the manufacturer fault b/c they are trying to thwart users who try to upgrade or change their devices. Hermes development feels like spy vs. spy sometimes as we crack something and then the next bootloader/radio bootloader comes out. Consequently pre sspl hermes flashing was damn near rocket science. Problems were rampant. Heck, I even saw one poster try to flash the original signed_nbh into the OS area with the 1.01MFG bootloader
They're all gonna try it. There's no minimum IQ required to be a member here.
Ideally, we need to find a way to bring any HTC device back to life from brick status. It's only corrupted memory after all. If the correct bytes are written, the software works. When I did SE phone hacking, there were such devices. Because of this, users with bricked phones could take them to their nearest SE phone center and they would re-flash and un-brick (for a price of course).
This ridiculous swapping of bricked devices is what needs to change. Posters need to take financial responsibility for phones they brick. HTC needs to make their hardware flashing system available to Operators at phone centers.
Unfortunately, this won't be the case. Instead, they'll go after us because they can see an ROI impact in terms of bricks. What they can't see is the intangible increase in sales that we stimulate or the intangible loss of future revenue that shutting us down represents.
Sign the petition. Get your friends to sign it. Get it posted on other forums. Get it into the news. Operators and M$ need to be able to see this intangible.
on the other hand with the hermes and returns... we just got to a point to where we could brick them less than a month ago... most of the returns before then was by manufacturer fault, i know this because i was one of them, i had a ton of bad blocks in the wrong spot....
its to bad we dont have an easy rom kitchen for these.. something that would make it damn near impossible for the person who cant read to brick their device.. i dont know.. im tired and going back to bad, my post isnt making much sense to me right now
but i do agree with you sleuth!
Wow... check out the attitude here...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=294365
Kinda proves my point.
Add a success story here - mainly because I am competent enough to read and ask the right questions when there was vague information.
I am not new to flashing/modding, but the Hermes definately takes it to a new level.
The difference with me, should I ever brick my device - I would just deal with it. I came here with the understanding that the tools available to us come with an increased risk should you not actually understand what you are doing. You need to be aware that you should own up to the possible mistakes and not try to send a bricked device back for warranty....
Two individuals who make this place so great - Pof and Sleuth. Pof has done such a great job with the wiki and his tools - all you need to do is take a few days to read about the device and the steps you need to make. Sleuth brings a different element (and his programs) to the forums and has the patience to point questions to the right areas of the wiki.
My advice - if you plan on unlocking/upgrading take at least a week and read the wiki. Make sure you have all the pieces needed to complete what you want to do. Sync your device and backup all your info - be prepared to hard reset and start from scratch - twice in some cases.
Set aside plenty of time that your phone will be down during this process.
This site is by far the best there is - it's a shame that people rush into things some times.
Sleuth255 said:
Ideally, we need to find a way to bring any HTC device back to life from brick status. It's only corrupted memory after all.
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Click to collapse
HTC should put JTAG out in its new models
Seriously, it's a big flaw that every official ROM image overwrites th bootloader, even with the same version. The whole firmware history teaches that the bootloader should not be touched by end user.
So, the solution is to make custom ROMs flashable by parts, w/o affecting the bootloader. This should prevent bricking... does not revive existing bricks though...
But your overall point is good: manufacturers get angry because of a lot of returns, and care shell be taken to calm them down.
on another note about the cingular boards... i got banned there was a thread about the lack of good moderation in the HTC board over there, i spoke my piece and got banned... it wasnt even bad, just offered some suggestions.. so much for contructive criticism and free speech..
I am currently running DCD 3.0.4 and considering upgrading to 3.1.2.
However, I have been reading that a new rom (diamond based or otherwise) is "around the corner".
From those who actually know:
What kind of timeframe are we talking about?
If you don't know anything specific, please do not respond to this post.
As always, thank you for all your hard work on behalf of us undeserving peons.
It'll be soon.
Patience is a virtue.
why do people have to respond like that.
It's rude, disrespectful, and annoying.
he wasn't being impatient. he was just curious.
I've done the same before.
By asking that question, he doesn't mean "hurry up" or "why isn't it ready yet"
he just wants to know, because flashing takes time (to backup and restore etc..) and obviously, he doesn't want to go through all that to flash to dcd 3.1.2, if dcd 3.1.3 is about to get released.
it's really pretty simple
WOW...I didnt find anything wrong with that anwser...In fact I thought it was rude asking that question in the first place..
"What kind of timeframe are we talking about?
If you don't know anything specific, please do not respond to this post"
Considering GCINCOTTA is a developer/tester in this community and contributes daily... I think your a little out of line here.
Considering when you flash a dcd rom...he will probly be the one helping you..or at least would have
A MOD SHOULD DELETE|CLOSE THIS THREAD ANYWAY SINCE IT HAS NO VALUE
prepsssuck said:
WOW...I didnt find anything wrong with that anwser...In fact I thought it was rude asking that question in the first place..
"What kind of timeframe are we talking about?
If you don't know anything specific, please do not respond to this post"
Considering GCINCOTTA is a developer/tester in this community and contributes daily... I think your a little out of line here.
Considering when you flash a dcd rom...he will probly be the one helping you..or at least would have
A MOD SHOULD DELETE|CLOSE THIS THREAD ANYWAY SINCE IT HAS NO VALUE
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I have to agree with your post - I was new to this only a month or so ago - without DCD and GCINCOTTA - I would never have even attempted doing this to my phone. Due to their help and tireless work/posting/etc, I have a phone that has working GPS, Fast internet downloads, software that I never would have even known about if not for them.
Like the 'OP, I am looking forward to their latest work, however, I can appreciate the time/effort/energy that goes into this and am patiently awaiting their latest release(s).
Due to their timeless help, I have experimented with several roms throughout this board and on other boards, but if they didn't start me off with their patient explanations, I might not have ever gotten to this point (or even known about this).
Thanks and kudos to the experts here that help out - they know who they are.
SyXbiT said:
why do people have to respond like that.
It's rude, disrespectful, and annoying.
he wasn't being impatient. he was just curious.
I've done the same before.
By asking that question, he doesn't mean "hurry up" or "why isn't it ready yet"
he just wants to know, because flashing takes time (to backup and restore etc..) and obviously, he doesn't want to go through all that to flash to dcd 3.1.2, if dcd 3.1.3 is about to get released.
it's really pretty simple
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Holy smoke, no reason to get all butt hurt. the answer was polite and quite good. gcincotta knows how lame sprint is with their time frames and was just letting the person know to be a bit patient.
"feeelings......nothing more than feeeelings"
it has nothing to do with sprint, and their time frames.
he was asking about a new DCD release.
i'm not butt hurt, i've just seen these kinds of comments all too often.
yes, we're all grateful for DCD and all those that help in ROM dev.
I've seen a simple curious question get attacked (as though the attacker is somehow defending - and sucking up to - their idol, the ROM maker)
you get comments like "this guy does it for free, don't rush him, be grateful."
I agree entirely with those statements, but, asking an approx timeframe is just to avoid constant reformatting.
I personally don't care what the answer is, if it's "soon" or "a long way off" I don't care when it comes, as I know it's free. I just like knowing. (I'm sure we've all reformatted, flash, and got everything set up to see a newer ROM release 4 mins later. it's kinda annoying
wooooooah.. someone need to get layed.. calm down peepz we all equalz..
The point of the post was not to get people riled up. I am sorry.
The point was to calm people down and give them a concept of expectations.
We all know that if you think something is coming in 30 seconds and it doesnt come for half hour, you go crazy. If you think its coming in an hour, then you are surprised by the early release.
It's all a matter of expectations.
I only wrote
"If you don't know anything specific, please do not respond to this post."
so that I didnt get replies like "I'm sure it'll be any minute!" which would only fan the flames of people's impatience.
I did not mean to be impatient or ingratious. I just wanted to potentially save myself (and perhaps others) a few hours of time.
I thought it was relevant to the community when DCD (or others) are expecting to release an upgrade and I have still not, as of yet, received any form of substantive answer.
SyXbiT said:
it has nothing to do with sprint, and their time frames.
he was asking about a new DCD release.
i'm not butt hurt, i've just seen these kinds of comments all too often.
yes, we're all grateful for DCD and all those that help in ROM dev.
I've seen a simple curious question get attacked (as though the attacker is somehow defending - and sucking up to - their idol, the ROM maker)
you get comments like "this guy does it for free, don't rush him, be grateful."
I agree entirely with those statements, but, asking an approx timeframe is just to avoid constant reformatting.
I personally don't care what the answer is, if it's "soon" or "a long way off" I don't care when it comes, as I know it's free. I just like knowing. (I'm sure we've all reformatted, flash, and got everything set up to see a newer ROM release 4 mins later. it's kinda annoying
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GC is a major tester for DCD and his ROMs. show some respect, he was giving you accurate information as a source.
aguas said:
GC is a major tester for DCD and his ROMs. show some respect, he was giving you accurate information as a source.
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Click to collapse
accurate yes, but the OP asked for specific, if GC had said something like "i work with DCD on the roms, but neither of us can give you anything specific, but it should b soon" we probably would have avoided every subsequent post in this thread
defaultdotxbe said:
accurate yes, but the OP asked for specific, if GC had said something like "i work with DCD on the roms, but neither of us can give you anything specific, but it should b soon" we probably would have avoided every subsequent post in this thread
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agreed.
as far as 'accurate information' ???
he said nothing at all!
These people dont do this for a living...they have no deadlines or executives breathing down there back for a release...G was stating that i will be soon...like after the major bugs are addressed...There is no timeline....He could have lied and said tomorrow at 12:37 am
Tell me lies! Tell me sweet little lies!
Now watch it come out tomorrow at 12:37 am...lol...would be sweet if it did though
I thought the OP was a fair question because he wanted to know it he should flash dcd3.1.2 or wait for the diamond inspired roms. I though gc's answer was also fair. He said "it will be soon... (so).. have patience" i.e. don't flash dcd3.1.2 if it is a hassle for you because, with patience, the diamond inspired roms will come.
Now if you really want to have a laugh at people getting their hopes dashed by a missed timeframe you should check out the Athena Project thread. I had weeks of amusement reading that thread. And you know who they were flaming for missing a deadline? - olipro! yeah they guy who made it all possible was getting flamed because he got hammered instead of meeting a deadline. (For those who dont know, without olipros hard and soft SPLs we could not unlock our HTC phones and flash unsigned roms)
So to save themselves the flames and disappointments it is normal for dcd et al to say "soon" rather than "12.37am tomorrow".
As others have pointed out, these guys do this in their spare time, and with the wings in stanley cup finals, some of them are busy at the moment.
Now my 2c worth on the OP question. If you have dcd3.0.4 working well and you are happy with it, I would not see much reason to flash dcd3.1.2 just at the moment. I tried it and have since gone back to dcd3.0.4 and am very happy with it. Although I did flash and keep the new radio 3.39 but to be honest I don't see a great difference.
Um, I believe the OP said....
From those who actually know:
What kind of timeframe are we talking about?
If you don't know anything specific, please do not respond to this post.
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Click to collapse
I would like to believe that common sense would have been applied when I responded.
I think my question was fair. I was, and am, being patient. I wasn't trying to be rude or obnoxious or ungrateful.
I think that GC was trying to be helpful, but his post didn't add anything useful as it ignored my request for something specific. Had he not responded at all, I would have known what I know now about the release date - namely nothing.
The great irony is that not one of you knew anything specific, yet you all replied to my post.
Thanks to maccaberry for the constructive input.
I think that GC was trying to be helpful, but his post didn't add anything useful as it ignored my request for something specific.
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Click to collapse
I'm afraid "soon" is as specific as it gets at the moment. When work is being done, there is no specific timeframe. Whenever it's tested and working up to standard, it gets released. I could have said something like...in about a week, though something could break in a week that puts if off for another two weeks. Then we'd have new threads and posts saying "I thought it was going to be in about a week..."
gc....you and dc etc. are the reason why meatheads like myself dont still use a rotary phone lol. keep up the good work and keep the good replies coming witt is often needed but not often understood.
How to sign up on Barnes and Nobel's website
To sign up on the Barnes & Nobel "book club" forum, and report your issues with your device, you can use your Barnes & Nobel Username and Password. You only need to select a name for the forum.
Getting Results
Lets link the topics here. If we want the topics to be highly visible to Barnes and Nobel, we must all "Laurel" (aka thanks) each other's posts. Here are some of my posts:
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...ion/Sticky-Side-Loading-is-broken/m-p/1245453
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...pment-is-stifled-on-this-device/idi-p/1244851
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...ent-tools-for-the-Nook-Store/m-p/1244651#M664
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...ease-signed-open-ended-X-Loader/idi-p/1243051
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...tore-the-ability-to-sideload-apps/m-p/1243023
Keep in mind that this is a "noob" forum. They will look up to you if you are developing. Noobs go to the "book club" to learn how to use their devices. We want to make sure the noobs see that we have more problems than they do with the device as it is. It needs to be opened up.
Official Channels (aka probly wont' work)
Here is another link for forwarding your concerns to higher levels https://nookdeveloper.barnesandnoble.com/support/support.html
email addresses for expressing your free-thinking concerns.
[email protected]
[email protected]
Using our community to push their community
I will laurel every development/root enabling link in this thread. So post up your Barnes and Nobel forum threads here and we can all laurel each others posts to bring them into the "top laureled posts" on Barnes and Nobel and thereby make them unable to ignore our posts.
Lets send several clear messages.
Don't forget their NT youtube channel. They had a video about the 1.4.1 update and I had commented there about opening up the device for developers.
B&N won't get it. We need more devs to work on this device. I'm sure with enough eyeballs on this thing we will be able to crack it.
xdahgary said:
B&N won't get it. We need more devs to work on this device. I'm sure with enough eyeballs on this thing we will be able to crack it.
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Click to collapse
Attitudes like that are extremely unhelpful. In fact, I take offense to that. Only a handful of members on this site are actually developers and others(like you) take an attitude that development 'just happens'.
Here's some news for you, douchebag, development is tons of work. Its trials and tribulations. Its blood, sweat and tears. Its trial and error. Countless hours of work. And before we can even begin, we need a workaround for the security.
Guess what.. This is it. This is called social engineering. As stated by the most effective social engineer in the world, 'The best way to get a password is to ask for it". Until we have that password, there will be no development.
Now stop *****ing about **** you don't know and get in there to do some work. There's those who help and those who hinder. Guess what your post does.
This thread is about one thing. If you don't have anything to contribute, don't be a douchebag.
Return the NT. They will get their attention. Mine goes back next week. No to locked bootloader. No to blocked side loading. No to Barnes and Noble. I'll buy my books from Amazon from now on.
Sent from my BNTV250 using xda premium
I'll be returning my NT as I am within the two week return period unless the bootloader is broken within a matter of days. Otherwise, even if 1.4.1 becomes rootable again I can't check every few days to see if an update is coming and take the time to read all the preventative steps to avoid having to re-root. It is quite a disappointment to have gotten everything working on my NT only to find root broken, some of my apps completely gone and wifi ad hoc not working this morning.
I'm certainly not a developer, so I'll help with the means available. Unfortunately, after logging in on the B&N forum, it seems clicking on the laurel doesn't iterate the counter...
Don't know what's wrong, I'm trying over Safari or Chrome
You're taking it too personal. I have contributed in every way in the development. I have donated and left comments on your B&N links. But changing a corporation's mindset is very difficult. I hope B&N will change their ways, but I'm not optimistic. I would like more developers taking interest in the nook tablet instead. And I in no means believe development just happens. That is why I buy them beers.
I fail to see the need to call someone a douchebag because they stated the obvious... B&N does not care, nor will internet posts change their mind..
Returning the device won't really impact them as 97% of users will / can care less about hacking it...
Instead of jumping up and down like caged animals and threatning to return it why not trust in the developers of XDA? I do and I often hit their donate button...
I guess I'm next to get called a douche...
My .02
real-6 said:
I'm certainly not a developer, so I'll help with the means available. Unfortunately, after logging in on the B&N forum, it seems clicking on the laurel doesn't iterate the counter...
Don't know what's wrong, I'm trying over Safari or Chrome
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to log in and create a pen name. It's kind of a pain, but I was able to do it.
Thanks Adam for the initiative you are taking on this product. I hope it eventually helps.
While i share in the sentiment that B&N is not going to care about a hand full of noisy people, ill put my 2 cents in at the store and their sites and cross my fingers. We are not asking for that much, are we?
I'm way past my 2 week grace period so I'm either stuck with it or it goes on e-bay at a loss if there isn't a work around in a reasonable amount of time. ( no I'm not slamming on the xda developers.. just that at some point you have to cut your losses and give up )
I did buy the device with full intent for a couple of non-bn functions, and while some of them still work ( but not all ) it will still prevent me from ever updating the app which means at some point, its useless.
Nurb432 said:
While i share in the sentiment that B&N is not going to care about a hand full of noisy people, ill put my 2 cents in at the store and their sites and cross my fingers. We are not asking for that much, are we?
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Click to collapse
It's worth a few seconds of our time.
To anyone who does head over there, try to be positive. There are a few members there who are personally insulting folks like us, please don't take the bait. They aren't your intended audience, you won't change their minds even if they were and they aren't worth your time anyway. Just stay positive and encourage openness, and laurel those posts that do the same.
Will do Adam. It is the least we can do for someone who has done so much for all of us. I started emailing them a couple days ago thinking the squeaky wheel and all that but continue to get the auto-response.
AdamOutler said:
Here's some news for you, douchebag, development is tons of work.
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Bah humbug? Great thread.
This is a thread on B&N's community board. A link in this thread states the special return/refund policy for this holiday season -
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...licy/m-p/1246537/message-uid/1246537#U1246537
Only the top management at this time can make difference. One thing for sure that the top management cares more than the customer complaint is the earnings. My theory is that if there are enough returns to impact the earnings, this may help the top management to think through the issue clearly.
B&N's 3rd qtr ends on January 31, 2012 which coincide with the extended return period for holiday (see the link above). So you can make the best judgement about what you can do to help yourselves.
dkb218 said:
Return the NT. They will get their attention. Mine goes back next week. No to locked bootloader. No to blocked side loading. No to Barnes and Noble. I'll buy my books from Amazon from now on.
Sent from my BNTV250 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First I'm not personally going after you here. I see this type of opinion across alot of forums. When you go to return it you don't have the option to say any of things you have pointed out. Us XDA'ers may be a minority but we are known to be very loud. I do feel that Adam's plan is the best course of action to accomplish what is needed to make the Nook a great tablet.
That being said, everything you have pointed out is very real concern to me, and I have been seriously considering returning mine. But I'm not really seeing any real development(comparing to the major phones) on any tablet besides the Samsung galaxy tab(which I can't afford) I'm thinking once Adam and the rest of the guys in the development thread get through the bootloader issue we might have one of the better development communities's going once we can attract the rest of the nook color guys.
The complaints about 1.4.1 are written everywhere. It's very hard to imagine that B&N is not knowing about what is going on.
The advantage of being a Tablet ex-owner is no longer emotionally attached to the device and will be able to see the situation without bias. If s/he still likes it, it's always possible to buy it back in February. May be a pre-owned one at a discount?
Don't know if you guys got the memo, but unless you bought your NT before November 14th, you have until January 31st(I think) to return them, open or unopened. Extended holiday returns are a beautiful thing. I would post a link to the info on the website, but I'm too lazy.
Merry Christmas!
So i got my first reply from B&N that basically stated they really don't care , and they removed side loading to prevent piracy. So i guess that means all other markets are just pirates? My foot, its all about lock-in and restriction of free trade.
Last B&N product i ever buy.
I'm also forwarding a complaint on to my states attorney general.
I decided against getting a Nook Tablet, and told my family not to get a Nook Tablet. Since I'm the IT guy of the family my words have a lot of weight when it comes to buying tech goodies.
That's how we here in this board can hurt B&N bottom line. WE'RE the guys/gals that our family comes to and says: "Is this a good thing to get?" and our answer can steer them to or away from the NT. Right now the answer to them is stay away from the Nook Tablet.
My sister and father both got Kindle Fires BTW.
Hello All,
In recent events we saw our primary kernel developer completely drop his project and leave. This is a sad thing, but it could have been prevented on both sides. It seems that there has lately been a huge misunderstanding of what working with a community means and what open source means, it is tearing the community as a whole apart.
I. USERS/TESTERS: (this is the part most of us know about)
This can roughly refer to anyone that is not a developer or submitting code, but it can also refer to developers using ROMs or Kernels produced by other developers. Anyone in this position needs to realize that almost ALL Roms/Kernels/Themes are experimental even if considered "stable". There is a reason that on both Rootzwiki and XDA it is common to see developers stating they are not responsible for any damage done to your device or your data.
Device problems will differ from one device to another due to security implementations or new code/hardware or even something else. It needs to be understood that a kernel/Rom release that has bugs may NOT be due to code written by the dev, but by an inherent flaw in the hardware OR the stock code.
What does this mean to you?
Well, in order to function as effectively as possible a general guideline should be followed.
Be Tactful - Lets face it, there are going to be issues with ROMs and Kernels. There will never be a truly 'stable' release. Try to report issues in a polite and friendly manner. If you disagree with a developer, you can let them know, just be sure to be as tactful as possible, also make sure to provide adequate reports and detail.
Detail, Detail, Detail - Many of the newer folks don't know how to access logfiles, but this shouldn't stop you from being detailed. When an issue is come across, make sure to include as much detail as possible. For clarification, ANYTHING that is changed from stock configuration should be considered. For kernels, it is good to include any and all adjustments you have made. If a log can be pulled, DO IT, it won't hurt and the developer has an easier time figuring it all out.
Try to learn - The development community is a big place. By learning, you verify that you can help other newbies down the line, and that you provide more assistance to developers.
II. Developers: (the part less of us know about)
Ah, developers, without all of you, we wouldn't exist. Someone needs to do the work, and you provide the dedication and time. Most of us can't thank you enough. However, it seems that recently a lot of the developers are developing for the wrong reasons and are doing things against the very ideals we all stand for.
When developing with a community, ALL developers sign a non-verbal social contract. This contract includes many things.
- You are going to deal with some harassment (can be mitigated by mods) - Some people have bad days, others are asshats.
- Younger members will take you for granted
- Younger members will have difficulty providing detail
- The community will expect support for your product(s)
- Other developers (mostly new developers) will not credit you for your work occasionally (can be mitigated by mods)
All these things and more should be expected when working with a community. As a developer, you need to accept ALL of these things in order to contribute to making the community a healthy place.
Eventually, a developer must leave a device and move forward for WHATEVER reason they choose. This is inevitable, but in order to provide a healthy development cycle a developer should ALWAYS provide their source code for a time after development has stopped. This way projects can live on with other developers or be forked entirely.
MY COMMENTS ON TODAY:
DSB9938 - You are a fantastic developer and I urge you not to leave. I do believe you are misguided in pulling all your code and preventing others from forking or continuing your work. It goes against all that open source is about. You signed the social contract and you couldn't handle the terms, you wronged the community by breaking the trust you had developed.
Dr_Drache - Seriously? Kicking me from the AndIRC #droid-dna chat because you don't agree with what I say here? Did I step on your ego much? Stopping your s-off development because of all of this as well? You are whats wrong with the developers side of the community. God forbid someone disagree's with you, you either kick them or pull your project entirely. Go develop for Microsoft or some other proprietary company. You have forgotten about what the community really means and what open source is about.
Everyone else - We can pull through this. I have already started researching to pick up kernel development. It will be slow since DSB refuses to assist, but it can certainly be done.
Mods - We can't afford to lose more developers. We have to stop the harassment.
I agree with your post except the parts directed to DSB and Drache because it is a continuation of the feud. Let's just wipe the slate clean and follow the other parts of your comments because they are good guidelines on how to interact with each other.
th3raid0r said:
Hello All,
In recent events we saw our primary kernel developer completely drop his project and leave. This is a sad thing, but it could have been prevented on both sides. It seems that there has lately been a huge misunderstanding of what working with a community means and what open source means, it is tearing the community as a whole apart.
I. USERS/TESTERS: (this is the part most of us know about)
This can roughly refer to anyone that is not a developer or submitting code, but it can also refer to developers using ROMs or Kernels produced by other developers. Anyone in this position needs to realize that almost ALL Roms/Kernels/Themes are experimental even if considered "stable". There is a reason that on both Rootzwiki and XDA it is common to see developers stating they are not responsible for any damage done to your device or your data.
Device problems will differ from one device to another due to security implementations or new code/hardware or even something else. It needs to be understood that a kernel/Rom release that has bugs may NOT be due to code written by the dev, but by an inherent flaw in the hardware OR the stock code.
What does this mean to you?
Well, in order to function as effectively as possible a general guideline should be followed.
Be Tactful - Lets face it, there are going to be issues with ROMs and Kernels. There will never be a truly 'stable' release. Try to report issues in a polite and friendly manner. If you disagree with a developer, you can let them know, just be sure to be as tactful as possible, also make sure to provide adequate reports and detail.
Detail, Detail, Detail - Many of the newer folks don't know how to access logfiles, but this shouldn't stop you from being detailed. When an issue is come across, make sure to include as much detail as possible. For clarification, ANYTHING that is changed from stock configuration should be considered. For kernels, it is good to include any and all adjustments you have made. If a log can be pulled, DO IT, it won't hurt and the developer has an easier time figuring it all out.
Try to learn - The development community is a big place. By learning, you verify that you can help other newbies down the line, and that you provide more assistance to developers.
II. Developers: (the part less of us know about)
Ah, developers, without all of you, we wouldn't exist. Someone needs to do the work, and you provide the dedication and time. Most of us can't thank you enough. However, it seems that recently a lot of the developers are developing for the wrong reasons and are doing things against the very ideals we all stand for.
When developing with a community, ALL developers sign a non-verbal social contract. This contract includes many things.
- You are going to deal with some harassment (can be mitigated by mods) - Some people have bad days, others are asshats.
- Younger members will take you for granted
- Younger members will have difficulty providing detail
- The community will expect support for your product(s)
- Other developers (mostly new developers) will not credit you for your work occasionally (can be mitigated by mods)
All these things and more should be expected when working with a community. As a developer, you need to accept ALL of these things in order to contribute to making the community a healthy place.
Eventually, a developer must leave a device and move forward for WHATEVER reason they choose. This is inevitable, but in order to provide a healthy development cycle a developer should ALWAYS provide their source code for a time after development has stopped. This way projects can live on with other developers or be forked entirely.
MY COMMENTS ON TODAY:
DSB9938 - You are a fantastic developer and I urge you not to leave. I do believe you are misguided in pulling all your code and preventing others from forking or continuing your work. It goes against all that open source is about. You signed the social contract and you couldn't handle the terms, you wronged the community by breaking the trust you had developed. If you do not return, I can only hope that other, BETTER developers (in skill and ideology) fill your shoes.
Dr_Drache - Seriously? Kicking me from the AndIRC #droid-dna chat because you don't agree with what I say here? Did I step on your ego much? Stopping your s-off development because of all of this as well? You are whats wrong with the developers side of the community. God forbid someone disagree's with you, you either kick them or pull your project entirely. Go develop for Microsoft or some other proprietary company. You have forgotten about what the community really means and what open source is about.
Everyone else - We can pull through this. I have already started researching to pick up kernel development. It will be slow since DSB refuses to assist, but it can certainly be done.
Mods - We can't afford to lose more developers. We have to stop the harassment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you, "my friend" need to learn when to stop running your mouth. you spent nearly an hour pretending to care, yet saying dsb/devs should give more back, because we have a contract with the community.
you never stepped on my ego, you were banned for being a luke. you want to quote GPL to the devs and expect us to fall down for you.
I agree with your post except the parts directed to DSB and Drache because it is a continuation of the feud. Let's just wipe the slate clean and follow the other parts of your comments because they are good guidelines on how to interact with each other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do need to get access back to the #Droid-DNA chat, otherwise it is VERY difficult to even begin development.
dr_drache said:
you, "my friend" need to learn when to stop running your mouth. you spent nearly an hour pretending to care, yet saying dsb/devs should give more back, because we have a contract with the community.
you never stepped on my ego, you were banned for being a luke. you want to quote GPL to the devs and expect us to fall down for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, that is your assumption. I never even once demanded for more. I feel that the actions that have been taken are one of the sloppiest examples of open source development. I am trying to be a reasonable voice. I am trying to keep development going despite our recent setbacks.
I think that at the very least, devs should provide the sources so that development may continue after they decide to leave. Otherwise we loose too much progress.
th3raid0r said:
When developing with a community, ALL developers sign a non-verbal social contract. This contract includes many things.
- You are going to deal with some harassment (can be mitigated by mods) - Some people have bad days, others are asshats.
- Younger members will take you for granted
- Younger members will have difficulty providing detail
- The community will expect support for your product(s)
- Other developers (mostly new developers) will not credit you for your work occasionally (can be mitigated by mods)
All these things and more should be expected when working with a community. As a developer, you need to accept ALL of these things in order to contribute to making the community a healthy place.
Eventually, a developer must leave a device and move forward for WHATEVER reason they choose. This is inevitable, but in order to provide a healthy development cycle a developer should ALWAYS provide their source code for a time after development has stopped. This way projects can live on with other developers or be forked entirely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, no no no no no no. No social contract, this is an at will thing, that most of us are not paid for. Some of us do it for a living, and also do it here for fun. We do this for FUN. We do this for our benefit (having fun). I can not be anymore honest, anything I do here, I do for my benefit (Brain exercise and fun). I enjoy Android. The day I no longer enjoy it, I will either leave for good, or take a break like I have in the past. We can leave the playground and go home at any time. In fact I encourage developers to do this from time to time, It helped me greatly.
We do get some *sshat harassment, no we don't have to deal with it. We can ignore it, take it to a mod, or take our cake and go home. I tend to confront it, bad habit of mine
Younger members will take us for granted, some times you have to turn the power off to wake them up, or let them sit a minute waiting for you to release something they want.
Support should be appreciated, but not expected. We have families, jobs, and some of use have a life outside of Android(not saying I do ).
Most people who steal work, are not developers. They are general *sshats, that is all.
th3raid0r said:
MY COMMENTS ON TODAY:
DSB9938 - You are a fantastic developer and I urge you not to leave. I do believe you are misguided in pulling all your code and preventing others from forking or continuing your work. It goes against all that open source is about. You signed the social contract and you couldn't handle the terms, you wronged the community by breaking the trust you had developed. If you do not return, I can only hope that other, BETTER developers (in skill and ideology) fill your shoes.
Dr_Drache - Seriously? Kicking me from the AndIRC #droid-dna chat because you don't agree with what I say here? Did I step on your ego much? Stopping your s-off development because of all of this as well? You are whats wrong with the developers side of the community. God forbid someone disagree's with you, you either kick them or pull your project entirely. Go develop for Microsoft or some other proprietary company. You have forgotten about what the community really means and what open source is about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RE: DSB9939: Sorry but take your social contract somewhere else, it doesn't even make sense. He didn't sign, didn't verbally agree, wasn't paid, rarely got a pat on the back. This is the guy who is the reason you all have root/unlock, and you are breaking his balls. Yeah no Beaups and I are not the reason, we were just the way to a means.
RE: Dr_Drache: AndIRC is not part of XDA, we are separate and really what goes on there doesn't belong here. If you have an issue, take it to me, Zifnab, TheFuzz4 or DougPiston. It is a PRIVATE server, and people are welcome at operator discretion. We are allowed to limit it to like minded people, or even to just be grumpy and randomly remove people if we wish (we don't normally). If you want to talk about it, you know where it is, and how to get ahold of me.
Dude, we don't another thread about this lol. I'm not here to harp on this fact, but I'm glad I dumped my DNA while I still had the chance. For some extremely odd reason, people don't know how to act in HTC threads. I definitely don't miss all of this drama from when I had my Rezound.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda premium
th3raid0r said:
I do need to get access back to the #Droid-DNA chat, otherwise it is VERY difficult to even begin development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Requesting the community to be civil and then throwing in some parting shots is not ideal. I don't know what went down with you guys over there but maybe you can speak with the powers that be and work out an amicable solution.
jcase said:
No, no no no no no no. No social contract, this is an at will thing, that most of us are not paid for. Some of us do it for a living, and also do it here for fun. We do this for FUN. We do this for our benefit (having fun). I can not be anymore honest, anything I do here, I do for my benefit (Brain exercise and fun). I enjoy Android. The day I no longer enjoy it, I will either leave for good, or take a break like I have in the past. We can leave the playground and go home at any time. In fact I encourage developers to do this from time to time, It helped me greatly.
We do get some *sshat harassment, no we don't have to deal with it. We can ignore it, take it to a mod, or take our cake and go home. I tend to confront it, bad habit of mine
Younger members will take us for granted, some times you have to turn the power off to wake them up, or let them sit a minute waiting for you to release something they want.
Support should be appreciated, but not expected. We have families, jobs, and some of use have a life outside of Android(not saying I do ).
Most people who steal work, are not developers. They are general *sshats, that is all.
RE: DSB9939: Sorry but take your social contract somewhere else, it doesn't even make sense. He didn't sign, didn't verbally agree, wasn't paid, rarely got a pat on the back. This is the guy who is the reason you all have root/unlock, and you are breaking his balls. Yeah no Beaups and I are not the reason, we were just the way to a means.
RE: Dr_Drache: AndIRC is not part of XDA, we are separate and really what goes on there doesn't belong here. If you have an issue, take it to me, Zifnab, TheFuzz4 or DougPiston. It is a PRIVATE server, and people are welcome at operator discretion. We are allowed to limit it to like minded people, or even to just be grumpy and randomly remove people if we wish (we don't normally). If you want to talk about it, you know where it is, and how to get ahold of me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A social non-verbal contract is never an official thing.
In a most basic form it is the trade of safety/stability for a service when it comes to political science. They apply everywhere.
The reason we are no longer roaming nomads is due to social contracts.
I am not saying that this social contract is why you guys develop. It is the generalized community expectations. They are going to vary from member to member as well.
I understand Support is not expected, on your end, however it is essential to a successful project and furthermore it is essential to reputation. Reputation garners donations and therefore some developers incomes.
Most of my other points also follow this same logic.
A healthy community flourishes when these invisible expectations are met. Look at the GNex development for example and take note at what the successful projects are and how they got there.
I understand that DSB wasn't well appreciated. But the community opinion doesn't get better if he leaves in this way, I would argue that he broke a lot of trust that the community had in him. He could have still taken a break, but there are much more elegant ways to do so.
Sigh.
You want a contract? What does the guy on the other end get out of the contract?
I make the things I make so that I can run my phone how I want to run it. That's the only reason. I do not make them for you, or to look like some smart guy, or for my ego. I am the first to admit that I don't know a damned thing about coding. What I make takes hard hours of trial and error. Basically pounding on things till I slowly figure out how they work and bend them to do what I want.
And I do it for days on end. Till it works well enough for me to run on my phone. And I AM PICKY. I want it to be perfect. However, I also share what I make. I share it so that others who want to have their phone run the way I do, don't have to work so hard to get there.
Now comes the rub. There are billions of people in the world. And I bet if you put every phone next to every other phone, you would still not find two setup and/or used the same way. Because of that, I cannot test every possibility. When people come to me with something that doesn't work, do I just say no? Of course not. I made it. I feel responsible for it working correctly.
Now, having determined that I am not a coder, what do I do? First I go ask other people who are much smarter than I am. People like jcase, beaups, imoseyon, show-p1984. These are the real coders/android hackers in the world. They look at the code and actually know what it's doing. They don't have to try to arm wrestle with it to figure out what's wrong.
If that doesn't work, I beat on it. I look at logs. When you post those logs in my threads, there's a bunch of people who read them, not just me. And if I can figure it out, with what help is available, I fix it. If not, I say so. Half the time, what's in those logs is of no help, a quarter of the time, it's in there what happened, but it wasn't related. And lets not forget those logs are usually thousands of lines to read through.
Do I claim to be perfect? Hell no. But I do my best. And that's the very limit of what anybody else on the site has any particular right to ask me for. Nothing more. I try to let slide all of the little digs that people use when things don't work right. But over time it gets to you, ya know? And you guys only see the public stuff, in the threads. You don't see the PMs. And see the people who come online to the chat. You have no clue.
Now top that off with people twisting my words to insult me. I basically said that there are other reasons you can have problems with your phone. I did not say it wasn't my kernel, I said it wasn't in the logs. And I have this guy come in and say yeah, mine runs fine on stock. Seems our phones are only crap on your kernel. Now how did you honestly expect me to react?
I have asked this guy more than once to not run my kernel because he has these outbreaks. This was not the first one. And if you go look through his previous postings, you can see his doesn't only disrespect me, he has outright disrespected MODs as well. This makes me wonder why he was still around to bother me in the first place. But that's beside the point.
Now anybody who thinks I'm curt with others, go read the stuff I've had to put up with and see how long you can take it. I have no problems with people posting when they have an issue. And I can tell you right here and right now, my stuff isn't perfect. But when I tell you I can't find it, or fix it, that doesn't give you the right to flip out and go off on me. That means you go back a version and wait till I make a new one, or you go run something else. I even made a simple stock one for those with issues to run so they could have system write if they had issues.
I DO NOT MAKE ANYBODY RUN MY STUFF.
Now, having said all of that. Put yourself in my shoes and see how happy you would be.
D
.
orangechoochoo said:
Requesting the community to be civil and then throwing in some parting shots is not ideal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, hindsight is 20/20.
It's early in the morning but after reading these threads that big bottle of Grey Goose is calling.
dsb9938 said:
You want a contract? What does the guy on the other end get out of the contract?
I make the things I make so that I can run my phone how I want to run it. That's the only reason. I do not make them for you, or to look like some smart guy, or for my ego. I am the first to admit that I don't know a damned thing about coding. What I make takes hard hours of trial and error. Basically pounding on things till I slowly figure out how they work and bend them to do what I want.
And I do it for days on end. Till it works well enough for me to run on my phone. And I AM PICKY. I want it to be perfect. However, I also share what I make. I share it so that others who want to have their phone run the way I do, don't have to work so hard to get there.
Now comes the rub. There are billions of people in the world. And I bet if you put every phone next to every other phone, you would still not find two setup and/or used the same way. Because of that, I cannot test every possibility. When people come to me with something that doesn't work, do I just say no? Of course not. I made it. I feel responsible for it working correctly.
Now, having determined that I am not a coder, what do I do? First I go ask other people who are much smarter than I am. People like jcase, beaups, imoseyon, show-p1984. These are the real coders/android hackers in the world. They look at the code and actually know what it's doing. They don't have to try to arm wrestle with it to figure out what's wrong.
If that doesn't work, I beat on it. I look at logs. When you post those logs in my threads, there's a bunch of people who read them, not just me. And if I can figure it out, with what help is available, I fix it. If not, I say so. Half the time, what's in those logs is of no help, a quarter of the time, it's in there what happened, but it wasn't related. And lets not forget those logs are usually thousands of lines to read through.
Do I claim to be perfect? Hell no. But I do my best. And that's the very limit of what anybody else on the site has any particular right to ask me for. Nothing more. I try to let slide all of the little digs that people use when things don't work right. But over time it gets to you, ya know? And you guys only see the public stuff, in the threads. You don't see the PMs. And see the people who come online to the chat. You have no clue.
Now top that off with people twisting my words to insult me. I basically said that there are other reasons you can have problems with your phone. I did not say it wasn't my kernel, I said it wasn't in the logs. And I have this guy come in and say yeah, mine runs fine on stock. Seems our phones are only crap on your kernel. Now how did you honestly expect me to react?
I have asked this guy more than once to not run my kernel because he has these outbreaks. This was not the first one. And if you go look through his previous postings, you can see his doesn't only disrespect me, he has outright disrespected MODs as well. This makes me wonder why he was still around to bother me in the first place. But that's beside the point.
Now anybody who thinks I'm curt with others, go read the stuff I've had to put up with and see how long you can take it. I have no problems with people posting when they have an issue. And I can tell you right here and right now, my stuff isn't perfect. But when I tell you I can't find it, or fix it, that doesn't give you the right to flip out and go off on me. That means you go back a version and wait till I make a new one, or you go run something else. I even made a simple stock one for those with issues to run so they could have system write if they had issues.
I DO NOT MAKE ANYBODY RUN MY STUFF.
Now, having said all of that. Put yourself in my shoes and see how happy you would be.
D
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, I totally understand all of that.
I have made some tweaks myself, but I don't publish them because I know they don't have much application outside of myself.
I do know where you are at, I work at a large legal software company as a QA Analyst. I KNOW the daily grind on this.
The harrasment won't always go away. Hell, i get it here in a large company. It can be mitigated by a few things. For example you can use a smaller community.
You don't have to deal with these things at all, but if you leave on such bad terms without a way for someone to pick up where you left off, it doesn't leave a good impression on the rest of the community.
The fact that you don't know code makes this all the more impressive. You are a fantastic problem solver, it shows, maybe we can find some way to lessen the blow for you and yet continue public development?
th3raid0r said:
A social non-verbal contract is never an official thing.
In a most basic form it is the trade of safety/stability for a service when it comes to political science. They apply everywhere.
The reason we are no longer roaming nomads is due to social contracts.
I am not saying that this social contract is why you guys develop. It is the generalized community expectations. They are going to vary from member to member as well.
I understand Support is not expected, on your end, however it is essential to a successful project and furthermore it is essential to reputation. Reputation garners donations and therefore some developers incomes.
Most of my other points also follow this same logic.
A healthy community flourishes when these invisible expectations are met. Look at the GNex development for example and take note at what the successful projects are and how they got there.
I understand that DSB wasn't well appreciated. But the community opinion doesn't get better if he leaves in this way, I would argue that he broke a lot of trust that the community had in him. He could have still taken a break, but there are much more elegant ways to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You keep saying signed social contract. It is non-sense man. What you mean is expectations from non involved individuals.
Most developers get jack for donations, only people who get tons are either A) the attention begging people who release 100000 roms for 1000 devices that are nothing special, or B) ones who release something special, and then the donation spree is short and sweet. We don't do it for donations. DSB is not making much from donations on this device, he does it strictly for fun and people are making it NOT fun for him.
I fell into B) with the DNA. I will say I made ~$800 from donations on the DNA unlock, it is not the rule but an exception. I bought two used phones really cheap to develop on ($200 and $140, gave the $200 one away to another developer for free after I was done. $140 one I will give away as well at some point.), pizza dinner for my kids ($35, my personal reward), sent some for another developer (DSB, for his work and risks) and donated the rest to various charities. This is NOT A normal amount of donations. Don't fool yourself thinking most developers are making an income of any kind doing this.
GNex community flourished due to paid support from Google (AOSP), and open documentation. Two things we did not have.
*PS*
If you haven't been in our shoes, you shouldn't pretend to know, and you shouldn't complain about us.
solutions anyone?
dsb, jcase I have to side with you guys entirely. I love your work and I appreciate it completely. I am grateful for you guys, were it not for you guys and other people like you I would not get to 'OCD' on my droid all hours of the night like I do. I have learned much. I am a machinist in a shipyard, I can understand fine tuning and perfection in your work.
Unfortunately most of today's societal behaviors even in grown adults are dysfunctional at best. I have been on the internet since it's inception to the public eye and all I can say is that arguing and bickering that happens on the internet is absolutely ridiculous. I feel bad for you guys and embarrassed for the "others."
I have to agree with what works though. My daughter, when she was young would throw a temper tantrum and slam her bedroom door, so I removed the door.
orangechoochoo said:
Sigh.
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+1
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
orangechoochoo said:
It's early in the morning but after reading these threads that big bottle of Grey Goose is calling.
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Its almost night here, and Jack Daniels is calling me, all after reading all that posts and some chating on IRC... Never ever see such outcome because of some not polite posts. I have degree in International Relations and first thing i 've learned - don't say what you think, say what you need to say and SMILE )))) We all just people. I got my family. Wife, kids... But i spend time here not only because of kernels, ROMs and all that stuff. But because of great community. It looks like that 1 person can spoil all that great atmosphere.... :silly:
jcase said:
You keep saying signed social contract. It is non-sense man. What you mean is expectations from non involved individuals.
Most developers get jack for donations, only people who get tons are either A) the attention begging people who release 100000 roms for 1000 devices that are nothing special, or B) ones who release something special, and then the donation spree is short and sweet. We don't do it for donations. DSB is not making much from donations on this device, he does it strictly for fun and people are making it NOT fun for him.
I fell into B) with the DNA. I will say I made ~$800 from donations on the DNA unlock, it is not the rule but an exception. I bought two used phones really cheap to develop on ($200 and $140, gave the $200 one away to another developer for free after I was done. $140 one I will give away as well at some point.), pizza dinner for my kids ($35, my personal reward), sent some for another developer (DSB, for his work and risks) and donated the rest to various charities. This is NOT A normal amount of donations. Don't fool yourself thinking most developers are making an income of any kind doing this.
GNex community flourished due to paid support from Google (AOSP), and open documentation. Two things we did not have.
*PS*
If you haven't been in our shoes, you shouldn't pretend to know, and you shouldn't complain about us.
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Click to collapse
Never said you make a living off the income generated from donations. I know it is mostly small, but the funds do help most people. It is also nice to know that you mean something to a few individuals.
Also, I work at a legal software company as a QA Analyst officially, but I do mostly QA Engineering work for no recognition, no additional pay, and the occasional bit of harassment when someone doesn't understand my methods. I really DO get the environment.
The only thing I am complaining about is devs leaving on such bad terms without a way for the community to recover, that's it.
th3raid0r said:
The only thing I am complaining about is devs leaving on such bad terms without a way for the community to recover, that's it.
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What makes you think anybody owes "the community" a way to recover?
D
.
I see in the forum that a root solution had been achieved but the root bounty is still unclaimed because the devs think their solution is too difficult. I do not know enough about this to understand the obstacles. Can anyone give an educated guess as to if or when an easy root solution might arise? I personally like to run a stock/rooted ROM.
My answer = tomorrow
When tomorrow comes, answer = tomorrow
Why do people keep asking for etas? It'll come out when it comes out.... Wait patiently
If you want a rootable phone, get a nexus (or the HTC unlocked bootloader phone)
Root will be released when it's released. Not trying to sound like a douche, but that is honestly the best and only answer that can be given.
The thing about root is this...
-Just because it's been achieved, does not mean it will be shared. There is a lot of time and effort that is put into this type of thing. Not to mention the shear amount of risk that is involved as well. A developer may end up going through several devices while trying to gain root access. This can be VERY costly.
-Then there are the annoyances as well... People consistently asking when it will happen or when it will be released. It's not that these people are intentionally being annoying or trying to be... But when you are one of a few who have accomplished something and then have hundreds if not thousands of people asking for it. It's like having that last slice of pizza, no more is coming, ever, and the entire party is asking you to share it. That one slice isn't gonna feed everyone. (Bad analogy, but whatever)
-The bounty hasn't been claimed for 1 main reason that was mentioned... It's not as dummy proof as it can be. (This of course was ad-libed a bit) ... If I had to speculate, I would guess on 2 other reasons as well... 1, the bounty doesn't meet the cost put in. 2, the flood of private messages to the developers just isn't worth it yet. Again, those last 2 are my own speculation.
I'm sorry for the long post, but it was to offer a bit of insight to others that may stop in here as well.
TL;DR - The devs will release it when they are ready...If they are ever ready. This phone is still BRAND NEW, so let them work out some of the kinks in the process to ensure they don't brick hundreds or thousands of devices... It only take on line of bad code to ruin the whole thing. Be patient.
Hi TAG- I am in no hurry and do not mind waiting. Just want to know that it will be done eventually! Thanks.
Sent from my K00C using Tapatalk
Nah. It won't arrive, buy the HTC 10.
nobnut said:
Nah. It won't arrive, buy the HTC 10.
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This is the G5 forums. Please refrain from promoting other devices in these threads. Also please refrain from giving an answer you do not know to be true.
paperWastage said:
My answer = tomorrow
When tomorrow comes, answer = tomorrow
Why do people keep asking for etas? It'll come out when it comes out.... Wait patiently
If you want a rootable phone, get a nexus (or the HTC unlocked bootloader phone)
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I did not ask for an ETA. Initially people were saying there might not be root because of ocked boot loader. Now we kinda have root. As I said I don't know the technicalities of what Id holding it back and therefore do not know how big an problem it is. Just trying to get a handle on the feasibility of it. I have another week to return the phone. Seems like a lot of folks in as a these days just live to criticize and insult. The threads are full of it. Even if you had to object to my post you could have been kinder about it. The purpose of this community is for us to help each other.
marcmarshall said:
I did not ask for an ETA. Initially people were saying there might not be root because I'd locked boot loader. Now we kinda have root. Add I said I don't know the technicalities of what I'd holding it back and therefore do not know how big an problem it is. Just trying to get a handle on it. Send like a lot of folks in as a these days just live to criticize and insult. The threads are full of it. Even if you had to object to my post you could have been kinder about it. The purpose of this community is for us to help each other.
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H850 (UK) is getting BL unlock by the end of April.
That name for the thread and thread itself is prob in top 5 most useless threads created, my dear friend.
marcmarshall said:
I did not ask for an ETA. Initially people were saying there might not be root because I'd locked boot loader. Now we kinda have root. Add I said I don't know the technicalities of what I'd holding it back and therefore do not know how big an problem it is. Just trying to get a handle on it.
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people who know how close we are..... are the people who are working on it
which means you are asking for an ETA
Send like a lot of folks in as a these days just live to criticize and insult. The threads are full of it. Even if you had to object to my post you could have been kinder about it. The purpose of this community is for us to help each other.
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how is my post rude?
as other people have pointed out, these threads are useless...
First I apologize for the errors. I use Swype and auto complete is my worst enema. If you do not understand why I felt insulted you are not thinking very much.