so im having alot of problems with my G4 now.
I flashed to pdaviet3
my contact window doesnt pop up
It will not establish a connection to active sync (but it does detect it)
I get the cannot run timewizard.exe message
my g4 tries to use ",usb" to connect. could that be the problem?
bowlopho said:
so im having alot of problems with my G4 now.
I flashed to pdaviet3
my contact window doesnt pop up
It will not establish a connection to active sync (but it does detect it)
I get the cannot run timewizard.exe message
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had exactly the same problem! "cannot run timewizard.exe" appeared every time i tried to get off stand-by. Most propably you followed directions in this topic http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=293480&page=10.
Try doing the same thing again(flashing pdaviet3). Start by rerunning enableRAPI(in short follow directions described in the flash tool contained in the above post). I did the same thing and everything went ok second time. Then, i did a hard reset(after i took a backup), by going "start->settings->clear storage".
Hope this helps
I can't reflash if i cant connect to active sync. unless you know a different way...
bowlopho said:
I can't reflash if i cant connect to active sync. unless you know a different way...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most propably, you need ActiveSync 4.5 Beta 2 (Download it easily from M$ site). WM6 doesn't wotk with ActiveSync 4.2. Try it and keep us posted
first time i tried to connect it told me I had to install activesynch 4.4+ or 4.5+ or something, so i dl'd it but i had to run out for a few hours.
So when i got home, still no luck. It starts to detect but then it just wont connect.
Well since i just "cleared storage" things have been working now
I got that timewizard error once but it closed itself real fast, also now get my contact list up
wont know if active sync works for another 8 hours =/ just got to work.
bowlopho said:
first time i tried to connect it told me I had to install activesynch 4.4+ or 4.5+ or something, so i dl'd it but i had to run out for a few hours.
So when i got home, still no luck. It starts to detect but then it just wont connect.
Well since i just "cleared storage" things have been working now
I got that timewizard error once but it closed itself real fast, also now get my contact list up
wont know if active sync works for another 8 hours =/ just got to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At least things are working now. Activesync beta, becomes unstable sometimes and it fails to connect to the PPC(as you describe). The only solution for me, is to reinstall it(not a big problem for me), but anyway... it's still beta(as all M$ products )
Related
So I recently downloaded the "RUU_Hermes_CINGULAR_WWE_2_1_[1].15.502.3_6275_1.40.30.00_108_Ship" ROM for my 8525, in hopes that it will provide me with a more stable pda/phone enviroment so that I may do the work I need to without having to hard reset every other day or so.
When I try to run the ROM install, I follow all the insturctions but when the update starts to run, it shuts my activesync connection off so the update can't run and throws back an error that it lost connection with the device.
Any Help Here? Thanks
PS: I love the idea of being able to use my 8525 for all my work and play needs, but if this update doesn't help make the device more stable, I will have to sell it for something that doesn't crash this much.
hey..iv got same problem.. i think it maybe cause we are using windows vista (thats the only information i can find about it).. i wanted to update ma rom aswell
I'm using XP Pro.
try running it on another system...if available...
anyone know the solution to this?!
OK, have you installed HardSPL ??
Check my SAFE WM5 upgrade guide, if you follow the procedures in there you should be fine.
Yeah, as far as stability goes most the wm5 roms out of the box aren't going to be the best. with any rom i use sktools to tune it up for performance/stability settings. It does this automatically so you don't have to find various registry keys. So don't think just because you are going to another rom everything will be okay.
Read the wiki, search the threads, you will find answers to all your problems.
As far as you not being able to connect what is your spl number? Also, have you tried hard reseting then connecting or trying another computer. I had the same problem when downgrading a black 2.5 with hard spl 2.1 ( i had to downgrade to send it back to cingular). I ended up just downgrading to the highest version of cingular rom which is branded AT&T. It looked like a pretty good rom but I did not play with it.
he does not need hardSPL(at least i dont think so) he is just runnning an update for another cingular ROM, its still the same CID...try running it on another system, i had this same problem and it worked on another system....
Malik05 said:
he does not need hardSPL(at least i dont think so) he is just runnning an update for another cingular ROM, its still the same CID...try running it on another system, i had this same problem and it worked on another system....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HardSPL will protect him against a faulty SPL flash if it occurs, a newer SPL is likely to be in the ROM update aswell as a newer radio possibly. Having the same CID doesnt matter because if the radio or SPL flashing procedure messes up it can create a bricked device VERY easily (corrupt SPL or even a corrupted CID/Radio BL). Besides if he already has HardSPL that would explain why the RUU doesnt reconnect when the device is in bootloader mode.
mrvanx said:
HardSPL will protect him against a faulty SPL flash if it occurs, a newer SPL is likely to be in the ROM update aswell as a newer radio possibly. Having the same CID doesnt matter because if the radio or SPL flashing procedure messes up it can create a bricked device VERY easily (corrupt SPL or even a corrupted CID/Radio BL). Besides if he already has HardSPL that would explain why the RUU doesnt reconnect when the device is in bootloader mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
point well taken...=)
you mention, since he has already gotten HardSPL, why would that mean his device doesnt reconnect in bootloader?
put it in bootloader first and then run the update...
make sure you disable usb connections with active sync put your phone in bootloader and run the update might as well go with WM6 its a lot more stable than any WM5 rom i have played with .
OS crash
I run ROM install then computer shuts itself now my 8525 show hi true color with red/blue/white i tried to hard reset to solve but till hi true color what should i do?
trgrapsonu said:
I run ROM install then computer shuts itself now my 8525 show hi true color with red/blue/white i tried to hard reset to solve but till hi true color what should i do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've run there updates on my 8525. If the computer is shutting itself down, try another computer. This sounds odd. More of a computer problem then a Tytn Problem.
Malik05 said:
try running it on another system...if available...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
=) have you even tried it?
I'm having a problem connecting ActiveSync over USB. When I first got the phone I was able to use that connection. Then I set up BT ActiveSync. I believe at the time I could use either USB or BT, but it has been a while. BT sync was so much more convenient for me that I haven't used my USB connection except for charging the phone.
Today I tried to get set up to upgrade the ROM, but ActiveSync doesn't seem to work over USB anymore. I turned off BT on the phone. When I plug it into my laptop's USB port the laptop makes a sound indicating it sees the connection. It makes a different sound when I unplug it. I also see the orange charge light come on on the phone. I usually charge the phone this way when I am on the road since I don't carry the wall charger with me.
I think at one point I installed a river that I fdound here to access the phone in bootloader moder. Other than veryfying the phone connected this way, I never did anything with the driver. IT has been so long that I don't remember the details. Could that be affecting the connection for ActiveSync?
I have made sure my firewall is inactive. In Windows XP Device Manager I see an HTC USB Sync device under Windows CE devices. Would it be safe to remove that device?
Any ideas how I can get USB ActiveSync to work again?
Is it totally crazy to try the ROM upgrade over the BT connection?
emuyshondt said:
I'm having a problem connecting ActiveSync over USB. When I first got the phone I was able to use that connection. Then I set up BT ActiveSync. I believe at the time I could use either USB or BT, but it has been a while. BT sync was so much more convenient for me that I haven't used my USB connection except for charging the phone.
Today I tried to get set up to upgrade the ROM, but ActiveSync doesn't seem to work over USB anymore. I turned off BT on the phone. When I plug it into my laptop's USB port the laptop makes a sound indicating it sees the connection. It makes a different sound when I unplug it. I also see the orange charge light come on on the phone. I usually charge the phone this way when I am on the road since I don't carry the wall charger with me.
I think at one point I installed a river that I fdound here to access the phone in bootloader moder. Other than veryfying the phone connected this way, I never did anything with the driver. IT has been so long that I don't remember the details. Could that be affecting the connection for ActiveSync?
I have made sure my firewall is inactive. In Windows XP Device Manager I see an HTC USB Sync device under Windows CE devices. Would it be safe to remove that device?
Any ideas how I can get USB ActiveSync to work again?
Is it totally crazy to try the ROM upgrade over the BT connection?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
have you tried changing the setting on your phone "USB to PC"? I would try this first before digging to deep
slavetolustnyc said:
So I recently downloaded the "RUU_Hermes_CINGULAR_WWE_2_1_[1].15.502.3_6275_1.40.30.00_108_Ship" ROM for my 8525, in hopes that it will provide me with a more stable . . . When I try to run the ROM install, I follow all the insturctions but when the update starts to run, it shuts my activesync connection off so . . .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may want to try using the Hard SPL v7 and then install your ROM. I did that and all went smooth as silk - six times now. I have been browsing ROMs to see which one suited my needs an personality, and it has been fun. You can find that on my FTP site at ftp://xda:[email protected]/xda_dlz/
This is a dynamic IP Address from a cable modem so two things are true
1. It is subject to change at any time.
2. It is not as fast as some of these speedy servers
But, I do know where it is.
shogunmark said:
have you tried changing the setting on your phone "USB to PC"? I would try this first before digging to deep
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had tried this yesterday and checked the Enable advanced network functionality box. Today I unchecked it and suddenly the PC saw a new USB device (HTC Sync USB, I think). It still wouldn't sync automatically so I manually executed /windows/repllog.exe. This time it connected.
Some observations:
- After the connection was established the the name of my 8525 was changed to something different (something like WM_ComputerName1, Where ComputerName is my computer's host name). I changed the name back and was able to re-invoke repllog.exe and sync with the old name.
- If I disconnect the USB cable from the phone and plug it in again ActiveSync doesn't connect until I manually run repllog.exe. It does work when I run the exe on the phone manually.
I went ahead and started the upgrade process after connecting by running repllog.
Executing the RUU file from the HTC site first put SPL 1.11 on the phone and left the phone in bootloader mode (with the tricolor screen). I left the phone with bootloader screen and followed the instructions (although by now ActiveSync had shut down so the part about the AS connection that the installer asked for was not true). The progress bars appeared on both the phone and the PC. It took a few minutes to complete, but the update was successful.
After the upgrade I was able to sync over USB without any problems. I am now syncing my contact from Lotus Notes and setting things up to my liking. Once I got over the USB connection problem everything worked fine!
Ok, I have spent the last few days looking through the forum for help in installing the Cingular/AT&T update that is on HTCacmerica's website.
The directions have you connect via ActiveSync in the second step which I did. The installer finds my 8525 and finds the correct ROM version.
In the next step it finds the new ROM version in HTC's installer.
And then it is ready to install the new ROM package to the device. Immediately it turns the screen blank, then the Active Sync program is closed, and finally after about a minute it says it cannot connect to the device.
I have rebooted both the PC (WIndows XP) and the 8525 multiple times.
I have not had any corruptions of the current ROM since it never actually starts the installation process.
I know that there are other cooked ROMs available and in the future I may decide to go down that road.
Thanks for any insight.
HD
P.S.
This site is awesome, when I have worked a little more on the Net SDK and written some apps, will post them here.
HemisphereDancer said:
Ok, I have spent the last few days looking through the forum for help in installing the Cingular/AT&T update that is on HTCacmerica's website.
The directions have you connect via ActiveSync in the second step which I did. The installer finds my 8525 and finds the correct ROM version.
In the next step it finds the new ROM version in HTC's installer.
And then it is ready to install the new ROM package to the device. Immediately it turns the screen blank, then the Active Sync program is closed, and finally after about a minute it says it cannot connect to the device.
I have rebooted both the PC (WIndows XP) and the 8525 multiple times.
I have not had any corruptions of the current ROM since it never actually starts the installation process.
I know that there are other cooked ROMs available and in the future I may decide to go down that road.
Thanks for any insight.
HD
P.S.
This site is awesome, when I have worked a little more on the Net SDK and written some apps, will post them here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try putting it in bootloader mode first. Push AND HOLD left side OK Button and Power Button and at the same time soft reset with stylus on bottom hole....when you get three color screen then plug in USB and exe the file on XP.
If the above suggestion doesn't work, try another USB port, and make sure you are plugging into a direct USB not one that goes through an external hub.
Thanks
I will try that and post back. I was using the USB connection on my monitor which I think may be similar to a hub. Will try it through a direct connection and then if that does not work will put it in bootloader mode.
Thanks,
Hemisphere Dancer
HemisphereDancer said:
I will try that and post back. I was using the USB connection on my monitor which I think may be similar to a hub. Will try it through a direct connection and then if that does not work will put it in bootloader mode.
Thanks,
Hemisphere Dancer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh yeah that monitor hookup is BAD. Stick to the direct ports on the PC....even better to use a laptop with a battery and plugged in. Just think the disaster if your PC power went out in the middle of flashing.
if active sync doesnt work still, uninstall it and .net framework.
then reinstall both.
it worked for me.
Worked
Thanks for the help. The key was boot loader for me.
When you start the process from HTC and you leave the Hermes connected from the beginning it puts the phone into boot load mode. Then when it tries to connect to see your Version of OS it cannot find it, so be user that you are in fact upgrading.
The problem is the directions from HTC never say the phone goes into that mode. Once I did that it worked great and there is a lot more storage space freed up in this version. Thank goodness for that.
Thanks for everyone's help!
i posted this in the hard spl sticky thread but got no responses so i thought i would create a new thread.
Been reading through the forums for 3 hrs. i read the entire unlocker thread. cant find any info on this.
i own a htc x7501. i performed a hard reset, connected device to windows xp pc. synced with active sync 4.5. everything connected, i can browse files on the device. device definitely connected.
i took out the sd card, sim card remains. windows xp computer has all updates and service packs and antivirus disabled.
i ran athena unlocker version 3, downloaded today from unlocker thread. click step 1, it loads the RUU, i follow the steps, says upgrading from image version 2.19 to Hard-spl. i click next, says now upgrading and shows the status bar at 0%. after about 10 - 15 secs, windows pops up on computer screen and says "error 202: connection. please make sure your device is connected to your computer, check the cable, blah blah"
tried mulitple times, each time restarting pc and device. device still works as before, nothing changed at all.
any ideas?
come on guys, anything?
someone has to have a clue
what do you see when you get into the bootloader screen. Get into the boot loader by pressing down and holding on the camera button while sticking your stylus into the reset hole for a good 5 seconds.
it says:
athe100
ipl-v2.02
ATHE100
SPL-v1.10.0000
i followed the tutorial video in the unlocker thread, and on the video when the guy done step 1, it asks to install something on the phone, enablerapi.cab by the look of the video. i never get this, just says "connection error"
thx for your reply Eaglesteve, appreciate it
This mean your flashing was not successful yet.
I think you should first reflash your original ROM back to restore it back to working condition again first. Then repeat the step and keep the finger cross this time.
You do this by first going into the boot loader mode, then connect up the usb cable, and run the RUU (RomUpdateUtility) program of your ORIGINAL stock ROM.
Edit: Sorry, did you say that your device is actually still working? Then you don't need to reflash the original ROM.
Do you have .net Framework 2.0 installed with the services packs on your XP machine?
i think there might be a misunderstanding.
the rom is untouched. i cant complete anything. here is what i did from the beginning. new stock phone. performed hard reset. went through customisations as per normal. stock rom installed.
plugged device into pc running xp. active sync, connected and synced. ran unlocker tool version 3. press step one, unlocker minimises and open RUU. says checking device for version details, finds them, says image version 2.19. great, that shows it can communicate with device. i click next a couple times, eventually it gets to the status screen that shows percentage of flashing and a warning at the bottom that says, "be aware this might take 10 mins" or something like that. about 15 secs, nothing happens, then new window appears saying "error 202: connection, please ensure device is connected, check cable/cradle"
i click ok, RUU exits, unlocker reappears, and says step 1 complete.
make sense?
PashaK said:
i think there might be a misunderstanding.
the rom is untouched. i cant complete anything. here is what i did from the beginning. new stock phone. performed hard reset. went through customisations as per normal. stock rom installed.
plugged device into pc running xp. active sync, connected and synced. ran unlocker tool version 3. press step one, unlocker minimises and open RUU. says checking device for version details, finds them, says image version 2.19. great, that shows it can communicate with device. i click next a couple times, eventually it gets to the status screen that shows percentage of flashing and a warning at the bottom that says, "be aware this might take 10 mins" or something like that. about 15 secs, nothing happens, then new window appears saying "error 202: connection, please ensure device is connected, check cable/cradle"
i click ok, RUU exits, unlocker reappears, and says step 1 complete.
make sense?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, indeed I misunderstood. Please see my revised post above.
yes .net framework 2 and 3 installed plus all service packs.
PashaK said:
yes .net framework 2 and 3 installed plus all service packs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wish I could be of more assistance, but I'm not sure why your connection does not stay firm throughout the process. Perhaps you could PM Olipro for assistance?
yeah i might have to. i was thinking about trying it from a server 2003 machine, in case it is something wrong with my xp pc. i also have a vista pc but i dont trust vista enought to do it.
you think server 2003 would be ok to do it from?
thanx for helping a fellow aussie out
PashaK said:
yeah i might have to. i was thinking about trying it from a server 2003 machine, in case it is something wrong with my xp pc. i also have a vista pc but i dont trust vista enought to do it.
you think server 2003 would be ok to do it from?
thanx for helping a fellow aussie out
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No worries mate.
Perpahs you want to try a newly installed XP machine? You know what it is with older machine. After a while all kinds of stuff goes in to corrupt it. I vaguely remember a post where someone who did not succeed with an XP machine later got it workign with another XP machine.
I think it is not possible for Olipro to anticipate all the possible conditions which might affect the program.
So, give it another go with a different, cleaner XP machine.
Good luck.
thanx, i might try that tomorrow if olipro has no other ideas. this is a newly formatted pc. i format quite regularly, being a network administrator, i keep all my pc's very clean.
i will report back my results when i get this solved.
thanx again
PashaK said:
thanx, i might try that tomorrow if olipro has no other ideas. this is a newly formatted pc. i format quite regularly, being a network administrator, i keep all my pc's very clean.
i will report back my results when i get this solved.
thanx again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your cable has no problem I assume? Do you have problem doing ActiveSync in normal use?
the cable is the same one i got with the device. hardly used. everything in activesync works fine. i can browse files. install programs, everything works as it should, except the unlocker
I had a very similar problem when i tried to make the WM6 upgrade...
The reason for the connection failure:i had my Ameo connected via an external USB-hub.Which worked perfectly when i just wanted to synchronise or browse files...but when i wanted to make the upgrade i got the same connection error at exactly the same point.
Sticking the cable DIRECTLY into one of the PCs USB-ports solved the problem.
Ok,last night i tried the unlocker myself.
I put the cable directly into one of the ports of my PC...and got that connection error!
Tried to reinstall WM6-which,as mentioned in my post above had worked...still connection error.
Disconnectedt the USB from my pc,and simply put it back in a different port.
WM6 installation worked,and unlocking the phone afterwards worked,too.
No connectin errors anymore.
So this definitely is some sort of USB connection error.
Just try different ports.
Hi Guys,
since 3 hours i try to upgrade the SPL from my Touch Pro. Searched the Forum up and down and walked hundred miles around in google but i can't find any solutin...
I've connected the device to my PC via ActiveSync, started the "RaphaelHardSPL-Unsigned_190_1_3.exe", followed the instructions and the progressbar appeares. Now i allowed the programm "bootloader.exe" on the TP to start and it goes into black screen... ActiveSync is disconnecting and the blackscreen stay there -without any change.
I've tried this on 2 PC's (Vista Ultimate 64bit and XP SP2 Pro). Always the same
I've tried the "SSPLManual.exe", too. Copied to the phone and execute it... There comes the blackscreen and nothing else (for more than 20 minutes) - ActiveSync got disconnected after the blackscreen.
Does anyone have an idea what i can do to get this thing working?
Want to Upgrade my Radio and/or the ROM
Thanks for helping!
Sorry for the bad englisch
fireballrs said:
Hi Guys,
since 3 hours i try to upgrade the SPL from my Touch Pro.
I've connected the device to my PC via ActiveSync, started the "RaphaelHardSPL-Unsigned_190_1_3.exe", followed the instructions and the progressbar appeares. Now i allowed the programm "bootloader.exe" on the TP to start and it goes into black screen... ActiveSync is disconnecting and the blackscreen stay there -without any change.
I've tried this on 2 PC's (Vista Ultimate 64bit and XP SP2 Pro). Always the same
I've tried the "SSPLManual.exe", too. Copied to the phone and execute it... There comes the blackscreen and nothing else (for more than 20 minutes) - ActiveSync got disconnected after the blackscreen.
Does anyone have an idea what i can do to get this thing working?
Want to Upgrade my Radio and/or the ROM
Thanks for helping!
Sorry for the bad englisch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is your phone GSM (SIM card), or CDMA (no SIM card)?
Oh, sorry forgotten this.
It's an GSM device. (German original HTC ROM)
Did you use the SSPL.exe, then while the screen is black double click the RaphaelHardSPL-Unsigned_190_1_3.exe? Thats what you need to do, the SSPL.exe is only to get the device into the black screen, you still need to click on the RaphaelHardSPL-Unsigned_190_1_3.exe to flash the Hard Spl!
I've got it.
Don't ask me how! I think i go crazy here.
To answer you and check whats happen then i do the same things again, that i'm doing the hole time. Connect to active sync, run the upgrade, blackscreen, but now vista was searching for the driver, it connects again and the update was successful.
Don't understand anything but it worked...
thank you
fireballrs said:
I've got it.
Don't ask me how! I think i go crazy here.
To answer you and check whats happen then i do the same things again, that i'm doing the hole time. Connect to active sync, run the upgrade, blackscreen, but now vista was searching for the driver, it connects again and the update was successful.
Don't understand anything but it worked...
thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your welcome, glad you got it working! Enjoy your wonderful phone!
Enough said closing thread.
-McMex
Sounds like USB port is broken.
Hi all,
I've read a couple of threads for several days now, but none of the answers worked for me.
Problem is: I can connect from my HD2 to my desktop PC (win 7) initially, but when I try to install a new ROM (3.14.407_2), my HD2 restarts, shows the four colour screen and nothing more happens. After some minutes, my PC tells me that my phone isn't connected anymore.
It worked two months ago for the last ROM flash, but now nothing helps.
Tried:
- rebooting PPC and PC several times
- deleting partnership and setting up a new one
- disabling "faster connect" for usb to PC settings - afterwards, PC doesn't recognize any connection at all
- hard reset on PPC
I have no idea what to try next.. I wanted to install HSPL2 and flash the ROM from my SD card, but can't install HSPL2 ... same problem.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Infyrana
I also tried several USB ports on my PC
You think the HD2 USB port is broken? But I was able to transfer data when connected as normal device without active sync.
Do I have any chance to check, whether you are right, without having to send my phone to HTC?
maybe running the update in compatibility mode will help?
I thought the microsoft mobile device center (or however it is called) was made for win7, as the actual activeSync tool cannot be used?
So I can't see a benefit from this, but anyway.. I will try.
You could try using BlueTooth with ActiveSync, thats what I do. I have a "micro" bluetooth adaptor for my laptop and it all works fine... just a bit slower.
A
Infyrana said:
I thought the microsoft mobile device center (or however it is called) was made for win7, as the actual activeSync tool cannot be used?
So I can't see a benefit from this, but anyway.. I will try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the compatibility mode for the ROM update file could help becasuse it is a separate application (no guarantee though as I have no way to check it on my PC)
compatibility mode didn't help.
don't have a bluetooth stick ...
no further suggestions?
Just found out, that windows tries to install driver "Qualcomm CDMA Technologies MSM" when I connect my HD2 after starting bootloader.
But it just searches and doesn't find anything. I searched by myself, but didn't find the driver anywhere ...
if you are really determined to update ROM, find the thread on ROM 3.14 here on xda forum, I recall seeing guidelines on installing ROM from SD Card
of course it will not solve your sync problem, but still...
Yah ... I wanted to install HSPL2 to be able to do install the ROM from the SD card (at least that's what I understood - that I need that first), but I can't install it, as I already wrote.
I GOT IT!!!
Finally.. in a forum somewhere in a forgotten corner of the internet.. someone gave an advice to uninstall the windows mobile device center and reinstall it.
After uninstalling, I had some trouble to find it again, but finally got it.
And guess what: it works now.
Windows managed to install the quadcomm driver and I could update my ROM.
Never had such a hard challenge with my HD2.
Thanks everyone who tried to help!