http://www.geek.com/first-look-qualcomms-new-fairbanks-and-anchorage-mobile-platforms/
The anchorage with its tasty 1ghz processor seems like it might be a easy replacement for the x7500. Who knows when it will arrive and in what shape internally. Some nice xp or linux action on the anchorage might be nice.
I saw that too, and am really interested in getting more info. However, I would still like it to run window mobile, hopefully wm7. XP will be a bad news for me. XP is simply not appropriate as a mobile, from the viewpoint of battery efficiency, software availability, instant on capability, etc. I'll be disappointed if it is Linux, as third party software just isn't good enough.
150% agree with eaglesteve.
I do hope that by the time these devices come out, WM7 will be out AND that it will, finally, fully support VGA and higher resolutions, and provide a truely ergonomical and good-looking user interface without the need for heavy tuning.
That will make the GHz processor more than a marketing argument in my opinion.
Thanks for the heads-up !
HeartOfDarkness said:
150% agree with eaglesteve.
I do hope that by the time these devices come out, WM7 will be out AND that it will, finally, fully support VGA and higher resolutions, and provide a truely ergonomical and good-looking user interface without the need for heavy tuning.
That will make the GHz processor more than a marketing argument in my opinion.
Thanks for the heads-up !
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Click to collapse
By that time iPhone 2.0 will be out and this will be a moot issue. I say this as a Windows Mobile user since the original TMobile PPC phone. I mean, I really like my Advantage, but it's crazy how much time I have invested in it to get it to work like it should have from the first. The iPhone is not for me right now -- much too limited -- but when I watch my friends use them they actually work! And quickly! When the iPhone goes to the next generation, watch out! Not looking for a fight, just chatting.
wgary said:
By that time iPhone 2.0 will be out and this will be a moot issue. I say this as a Windows Mobile user since the original TMobile PPC phone. I mean, I really like my Advantage, but it's crazy how much time I have invested in it to get it to work like it should have from the first. The iPhone is not for me right now -- much too limited -- but when I watch my friends use them they actually work! And quickly! When the iPhone goes to the next generation, watch out! Not looking for a fight, just chatting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO phone is more for demonstration than actual utility. It is too tightly controlled by Steve Job. There isn't the same openness to foster third party software. Without the richness of third party software and choices, what you bought is what you get. It will always be limited relative to winmo devices. With winmo, each of us is able to change the device to our very individual taste.
I won't underestimate the power of microsoft to bring about a really good hand gestured based OS that works really really well with mobile devices, and that will heap frog the competition. May be wm7 feels like a late start, but I get the feeling that it will be solid.
wgary said:
By that time iPhone 2.0 will be out and this will be a moot issue. I say this as a Windows Mobile user since the original TMobile PPC phone. I mean, I really like my Advantage, but it's crazy how much time I have invested in it to get it to work like it should have from the first. The iPhone is not for me right now -- much too limited -- but when I watch my friends use them they actually work! And quickly! When the iPhone goes to the next generation, watch out! Not looking for a fight, just chatting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's see what Apple will be coming up with. Looking at their reputation, it will be something unexpected. However, to see is to believe.
yetdy said:
Let's see what Apple will be coming up with. Looking at their reputation, it will be something unexpected. However, to see is to believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a 1ghz processor on a wm6 device is pretty pointless if you balance out barely-noticeable speed upgrade over loss of battery life. I have found the difference between windows mobile machines to be more about individual tweaks than the power of the processor: i certainly wasn't wowed by the Athena's performance after upgrading from a Hermes.
One thing windows needs to get right in the next upgrade is that it needs to LOOK AND FEEL NICE, and be EASY TO USE. This will take the windows mobile platform out of the nerd/office exec market and into the mainstream, something that just cannot be done at the moment despite the valiant tweaks of HTC with the Touch series.
Windows Mobile is fine for me, I'm used to it, but for the novice it's long-winded.
The performance of Windows mobile is abysmal when lined up against Linux and especially Apple machines: look at the smooth menu systems on Iphones, and the way the integrated pinch zoom mechanism fluidly drifts in and out. No programmer on earth could acheive these results around the current windows mobile architecture, this despite the fact that the Iphone has a 620mhz ARM processor comparable to the Athena's.
The Iphone is also capable of rendering web pages more reliably than the Athena - the only drawback in this respect is its meagre Edge connectivity.
Linux on the other hand has lots of potential:With open-source development, and loads of easily-ported software it's interesting to say the least.
Haavard Nord, the CE of a big mobile Linux developer recently said " if you want to build a phone using the Microsoft operating system it is pretty restricted what you can do with the user interface due to the licensing agreement between the customer and Microsoft. Microsoft wants to make sure everyone knows it’s a Windows Mobile phone so it limits what branding you can put on the phone."
This could cause problems for microsoft: the pda market is known to be decreasing, while Symbian continues to develop a huge foothold in the market.
If the capabilities of Symbian and Linux continue to develop then I see a great market loss for Microsoft unless they buck their ideas up and start WORKING with their manufacturers.
Get out of the fricking dark ages Microsoft before you screw up big time.
ONly a few weeks ago, leoni, I would have agreed with you about pretty much everyting but now, I have to say that WinCE (the "heart" of Windows MObile) is FAR from being that bad performance-wise, now that I have had the opportunity to dive deep into it (at work).
It's actually Windows Mobile that sucks, which basically is CE + crappy GUI, not Windows CE, and it's WinCE that you have to compare with LInux and stuff. Because Linux by itself may be cool, but you will not be able to run very heavy GUIs like Enlignhtenment on current mobile devices, however great Linux may be.
MY POINT being: WinCE is an extremely solid, fast and reliable OS. Simply looking at how 90% off all autonomous GPS run under WinCE, and knowing that the fastest of them are equipped with 300 MHz processors should convince you of that.
Look at what HTC, which is NOT a software company by far, managed to do for the Touch line in pretty much the blink of an eye.
It's the Windows Mobile team that needs some extremely heavily applied butt-kicking. Both because they still do not understand that people want simplicity and beauty on their mobile device, but also because they want to stick, absolutly, to this "Windows Desktop-like" GUI.
I *think* Microsoft finally got the message. But as they're also trying to converge all their OSes, the future is quite uncertain...
As to the iPhone 2... It's both way too remote, and way too "locked-down" a system to work for me... If Apple wants to have someone like me interested (and I don't mean they should necessarily, but we're talking about how Apple could please me with the iPhone2), they need to review their content management policies.
i agree with you that CE underpins a great many devices we use everyday. I'm sure it's not ce which is at fault, however it needs to be understood that running a basic satnav or epos system isn't the same as running an effective graphics-heavy mobile device.
Another point i don't entirely agree on is about the touch gui - this has nothing to do with winCE, it is an extension to wm6. They did a good job, but it's no miracle! Like i said, windows mobile in the end ruins it, since as snazzy as touchcube and touchflo look on the face of it you invariably end up back at the unfriendly and stylus-dependant windows gui.
On the whole i think you are right in that it is the windows mobile programmers who are at fault, but eaglesteve's boundless optimism is possibly unfounded as these programmers have had YEARS to make the interface nicer and improve the user experience and have patently failed to do it.
Wm6 is inherently the same as all the rest but for bug fixes and some tweaks, what's to say wm7 will be any better?
I really hope they see sense, but who knows? It could be that they've seen the market lead symbian is getting in the mobile arena and are content to release windows mobile updates only for the hardcore. They might not see themselves as competitors to apple and nokia in this field. I hope i'm wrong...
Fl3.0 has just been embedded into the N95 8gb firmware. This means that N95 8gb users have FULL ACCESS to youtube and other flash sites. Nokia are already ahead of the game, and despite the limitations of a qvga, non-touchscreen device it seems that not only will N95 users have a better video and multimedia playback device than Athena users but also full, uninhibited access to most websites.
I see a microsoft-killing PDA on the horizon.
leoni1980 said:
Fl3.0 has just been embedded into the N95 8gb firmware. This means that N95 8gb users have FULL ACCESS to youtube and other flash sites. Nokia are already ahead of the game, and despite the limitations of a qvga, non-touchscreen device it seems that not only will N95 users have a better video and multimedia playback device than Athena users but also full, uninhibited access to most websites.
I see a microsoft-killing PDA on the horizon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've already seen N95. You would have to hold a gun against my head to make me use it as an internet browsing device. It does not have an acceptable input method. It does not have an acceptable screen. The browser is too slow as compared to Athena's.
It's true that Athana could not access classical youtube without first downloading it, but there is still youtube mobile that you can use.
The Anchorage will be even better than Athena, I'm sure, although I have not have enough info on it. It is at least a device that has GPS, Phone, Camera, PDA, Wifi, Bluetooth all in one, and stays with the mainstream winmo environment, with the widest choice of third party software. That's why this is going to be such a interesting device to watch.
When it is released, I think Leoni you will abandon your N95/N800/Asus eee solution immediately and go for this, despite your negative attitude toward anything microsoft now.
eaglesteve said:
I've already seen N95. You would have to hold a gun against my head to make me use it as an internet browsing device. It does not have an acceptable input method. It does not have an acceptable screen. The browser is too slow as compared to Athena's.
It's true that Athana could not access classical youtube without first downloading it, but there is still youtube mobile that you can use.
The Anchorage will be even better than Athena, I'm sure, although I have not have enough info on it. It is at least a device that has GPS, Phone, Camera, PDA, Wifi, Bluetooth all in one, and stays with the mainstream winmo environment, with the widest choice of third party software. That's why this is going to be such a interesting device to watch.
When it is released, I think Leoni you will abandon your N95/N800/Asus eee solution immediately and go for this, despite your negative attitude toward anything microsoft now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The N95 renders pages just as quick as the Athena - trust me I've owned and burned out every device under the sun! its drawback is - I agree - the screen size and input method, but given that I only use it for short-term browsing and checking information it is more than capable. It allows me flawless access to more web pages than either of the Athena's browsers do too.
the Anchorage is just a mocked-up device. It will never be released, and was simply designed to show off a new chipset from Qualcomm which has lots of snazzy features. The site linked on this page is somewhat misleading.....
The Snapdragon chipsets will obviously hail marked improvements on performance, but they are more than capable of running Linux AND (if rumours are to be believed) full windows OS. With this in mind I fail to see how this has any bearing on my experience of Windows Mobile. For a decent Windows experience we will have to wait for number 7 and I doubt that will be backwards-compatible with older applications since it's going to be a total overhaul.
leoni1980 said:
The N95 renders pages just as quick as the Athena - trust me I've owned and burned out every device under the sun! its drawback is - I agree - the screen size and input method, but given that I only use it for short-term browsing and checking information it is more than capable. It allows me flawless access to more web pages than either of the Athena's browsers do too.
the Anchorage is just a mocked-up device. It will never be released, and was simply designed to show off a new chipset from Qualcomm.
The Snapdragon chipsets will obviously hail marked improvements on performance, but they are more than capable of running Linux AND (if rumours are to be believed) full windows OS. With this in mind I fail to see how this has any bearing on my experience of Windows Mobile. For a decent Windows experience we will have to wait for number 7 and I doubt that will be backwards-compatible with older applications since it's going to be a total overhaul.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose we just have to disagree over the N95 versus Athena's ability to deliver good internet browsing experience.
You said the Anchorage will never be released (not may never be released). What makes you so certain?
I have no qualm with using Linux if it has the same array of quality software. I heard that the GPS software on N810 is a piece of crap, for example. I have never come across any website that indicates I can get third party software at this moment. It may be true that more software will be available in the future, but that does not help because I need it right now. For GPS, I only want iGO, or one that does warn me if I exceed the legal speed limit; is iGO available on linux? Can I get Cash Organiser on linux? What about creating and editing Word and Excel documents, can that be done on linux yet? What about MobileGolfScorer, which is the best golfing software that I know of? Does it run on linux? If not, is that anything as good? The list goes on and on.
It may be true that with WM7 some software may not run. We know that from the wm2003se to wm5 upgrade experience. However, almost all the software vendors quickly adapted with the newer version, so I'm not worried. I've watched a video interview with the WM7 development team, and know that they do try their best to minimise migration difficulties.
One of the attractions of Qualcomm's SnapDragon platform is its low battery consumption. It consumes between 250 to 500 miliwatt of battery. In contrast, the A110 and A100 chip from Intel consumes about 3 watts, which is 6 to 12 times more power hungry. The Intel's Silverthorne consumes power between 0.6 and 2.0 watts.
The chipset apparently allows even full OS to run on it. This may be the start of a more useable UMPC running full OS??
HTC is currently testing SnapDragon. Let's hope that they adopt it and come up with a battery efficient mobile device.
eaglesteve said:
It's true that Athana could not access classical youtube without first downloading it, but there is still youtube mobile that you can use.
QUOTE]
Or, of course, vTap
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Click to collapse
Confucious said:
eaglesteve said:
It's true that Athana could not access classical youtube without first downloading it, but there is still youtube mobile that you can use.
QUOTE]
Or, of course, vTap
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Youtube is only sited as a prime example of a flash-based site. Vtap, and other solutions do not allow access to all Flash 9 based sites.
On the subject of the Anchorage - it is definitely not being released, which is no surprise since its primary function was to demonstrate the Snapdragon Chipset - the device wasn't even fully functional and was only running WM5. HOWEVER HTC wil be adopting the Snapdragon Chipset, this is a certainity.
HTC are demostrably not concentrating soley on Windows Mobile anymore so it's a good bet that these new chipsets will herald more full windows/linux devices - I'll be happy with that!
Maps software on the N800 is not crap - Maemo mapper integrates loads of mapping applications - including google maps and is very responsive. It also informs you of your current speed limit.
And it's free.
Nokia Maps (wayfinder) also works fine. To be honest though I don't really need GPS as I don't drive.
I don't know if any Word apps are available for os2008 as I would never wish to edit word docs, or even view them on such a small screen. The keyboard is so crap on the Athena that I never edited word docs anyway.
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Click to collapse
leoni1980 said:
Confucious said:
HOWEVER HTC wil be adopting the Snapdragon Chipset, this is a certainity.
Maps software on the N800 is not crap - Maemo mapper integrates loads of mapping applications - including google maps and is very responsive. It also informs you of your current speed limit.
I don't know if any Word apps are available for os2008 as I would never wish to edit word docs, or even view them on such a small screen. The keyboard is so crap on the Athena that I never edited word docs anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to confirm that HTC is coming up with a Snapdragon Chipset. As long as it is a convergent device like Athena, hopefully running WM7, they would have my money.
I think most GPS software inform you of your current speed. However, very few compares it against the road's legal speed limit and gives an audio warning when one exceeds it. I sometime forget to look at the speed sign and unintentionally exceed speed. Fine is hefty and its easy to be slapped with license suspension. I use iGO even if I'm already familiar with the direction, for the purpose of giving just that speed warning.
I do have lots of words and excel documents created on Athena and shared on the desktop.
Creating words document is extremely productive if you use Tengo soft keyboard. Tengo would not be availalable on Linux again, I believe.
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eaglesteve said:
leoni1980 said:
Good to confirm that HTC is coming up with a Snapdragon Chipset. As long as it is a convergent device like Athena, hopefully running WM7, they would have my money.
I think most GPS software inform you of your current speed. However, very few compares it against the road's legal speed limit and gives an audio warning when one exceeds it. I sometime forget to look at the speed sign and unintentionally exceed speed. Fine is hefty and its easy to be slapped with license suspension. I use iGO even if I'm already familiar with the direction, for the purpose of giving just that speed warning.
I do have lots of words and excel documents created on Athena and shared on the desktop.
Creating words document is extremely productive if you use Tengo soft keyboard. Tengo would not be availalable on Linux again, I believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've got a long wait for WM7 so don't hold your breath, there's life in wm6 yet as far as MS is concerned.
Not so bothered about on screen keyboards on N800 - there's a stylus kboard and a thumb kboard which are both fine. I don't do extensive typing anyway, mostly listening to bbc onine or fm radio with the plugins and browsing the net. I do pretty much all my major typing on the EEE. I can't imagine a long period of typing with onscreen input but I take my hat off to you for managing it. I don't imagine you can type many words per minute though!
Igo sounds good i'll give you that, but I don't drive and even if I did I wouldn't necessarily rely on the speed limits given by a satnav. It's a great-sounding feature though.
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leoni1980 said:
You've got a long wait for WM7 so don't hold your breath, there's life in wm6 yet as far as MS is concerned.
I don't imagine you can type many words per minute though!
Igo sounds good i'll give you that, but I don't drive and even if I did I wouldn't necessarily rely on the speed limits given by a satnav. It's a great-sounding feature though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One year passes very fast. By then I would have already got 2 year use and would pass on Athena to one of my sons who frequently fight over the use of Athena with me now.
As to the typing speed, watch the speed demo on this website:
http://www.tengo.net/
You'll then understand why Tengo is so different and unique as compared to the normal softscreen keyboard.
The speed limit is accurate for most of the roads. On some roads the speed limit has not been entered into the database. I understand that in one of the Tom Tom versions, users are able to manually update a particular road's speed limit as well as to add/change/delete road. I don't rely on it to the extend of not watching the speed sign and speedometer, since some road's speed are not there. I use it just to mimimise the chance of speeding when I day dream away, or got distracted.
So, there are GPS software and there are GPS software. They are'nt created equal. What I like about my existing winmo platform is that I have already sourced the best of bread in almost all areas. Finding applications which are as good on Linux platform may be a challenge.
leoni1980 said:
i agree with you that CE underpins a great many devices we use everyday. I'm sure it's not ce which is at fault, however it needs to be understood that running a basic satnav or epos system isn't the same as running an effective graphics-heavy mobile device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, you hugely underestimate what a "basic" satnav application does, I believe. TomTom, or others in kind, probably are the most power-hundgry applications running on our devices, especially so since they are, on top of CPU hungry, usually greedy on graphic resources. Yet most of the WinCE devices that run dedicated satnav solutions are 200, at most 300 MHz.
leoni1980 said:
Another point i don't entirely agree on is about the touch gui - this has nothing to do with winCE, it is an extension to wm6.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I said in my previous post, it has everything to do with WinCE. Of course, the Touch GUI is, basically, a Windows Mobile application. But, Windows CE is, just the same, underlying all this. And it's WinCE that allows for easy, fast and efficient application development and allowed HTC to produce the Touch application that fast.
leoni1980 said:
They did a good job, but it's no miracle! Like i said, windows mobile in the end ruins it, since as snazzy as touchcube and touchflo look on the face of it you invariably end up back at the unfriendly and stylus-dependant windows gui.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right. But do not forget that the GUI of the Nokia and iPhone you mention end, too, at the nice-looking GUI. The difference, and advantage, we have on these devices is that however flawed the ergonomy of the rest of the interface is, it is at our disposal, while it does not even exist on those other devices.
leoni1980 said:
On the whole i think you are right in that it is the windows mobile programmers who are at fault, but eaglesteve's boundless optimism is possibly unfounded as these programmers have had YEARS to make the interface nicer and improve the user experience and have patently failed to do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They didn't do it for multiple reasons: they didn't need to (the WinCE platform was self-sustaining, competition faded to nothingness...), and they were even required to make an interface that even vaguely ressembled the desktop versions of Windows...
leoni1980 said:
Wm6 is inherently the same as all the rest but for bug fixes and some tweaks, what's to say wm7 will be any better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mainly the fact that, in they roadmap, they said from the start that:
- WM6 would be a "consolidation" of WM5;
- WM7 would provide a significant overhaul, in particular with the GUI and the general user experience.
leoni1980 said:
I really hope they see sense, but who knows? It could be that they've seen the market lead symbian is getting in the mobile arena and are content to release windows mobile updates only for the hardcore. They might not see themselves as competitors to apple and nokia in this field. I hope i'm wrong...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nokia is, for now, the leader in mobile devices. Whichever OS they use is, therefore, the most distributed OS. But that's valid for "regular" phones, NOT PDA phones. In the PDA, and PDA phones market, Windows Mobile is quite simply the undisputed leader.
leoni1980 said:
Fl3.0 has just been embedded into the N95 8gb firmware. This means that N95 8gb users have FULL ACCESS to youtube and other flash sites. Nokia are already ahead of the game, and despite the limitations of a qvga, non-touchscreen device it seems that not only will N95 users have a better video and multimedia playback device than Athena users but also full, uninhibited access to most websites.
I see a microsoft-killing PDA on the horizon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't agree more that PocketIE should be much better. In fact, much more than the "Windows-like" GUI, I find it infuriating to have such a basic 'HTML experience" on such a state of the art device, in 2007/2008. If the iPhone has any impact on our WinMo machines, I hope it is to show that integrating functionnalities such as Youtube, weather forecast, etc. is a minimum requirement for integrated functionnalities.
Related
I never thought id see the day I'd get rid of my beloved Athena, but yesterday I had an awakening.
Only a few days before i'd had a play on an IPhone and marvelled at its intuitive, smooth and just bloody BRILLIANT interface. it almost shocked me just how crude, ill-thought-out and unsatisfying windows mobile is in comparison. Now please don't baulk at this statement; i'm NOT going to buy an IPhone, it doesn't do enough for me and it's overpriced. But remember, this is Apple's FIRST. need I repeat FIIIIRRRSSST attempt at the mobile os market. how have they got it right so effortlessly while Microsoft, with all their years of experience in the field continue to make such crap?
I have shaken off my bias towards Microsoft and now simply resent their seeming inability to produce a mobile os that works well.
I don't wish this thread to be about the iphone. We all know its only 2g, can't do mms and doesn't have a particularly good camera. what it does do it does WELL though.
The same is true of Nokia's n800 and n810 internet tablets with os2008. they play YOUTUBE with flash 9. they render web pages smoothly and effortlessly. they look and feel nice. my n95 also - its web browser loads up data-heavy web pages PHENOMINALLY quicker than my Athena, despite its processor and ram spec being distinctly inferior.
why am I getting rid of my Ameo?
Put simply: it just doesn't work. it works a hell of a lot BETTER thanks to PK and the developers, but to all intents and purposes, when you really need it to work, it just doesn't. This is true of ALL windows mobile devices.
How often have you needed to use Internet Explorer to check something on the fly and been frustrated by a constant 'connecting' or 'opening' message for no apparent reason? How often has your windows mobile device crashed, frozen or botched up for no reason? I could go on, but I prefer to give my own personal remedy to the situation, and here it is....
dig out my old Hermes, dust off the cobwebs. use this for all my organising, scheduling etc...
install WmWifiRouter so my Hermes acts as a perfect wifi access point when its HSDPA capabilities are required.
buy a shiny tiny black ASUS eee subnotebook for a little under 230 quid.
connect shiny tiny black ASUS eee subnotebook to Hermes access point when internet is required away from home.
sell Athena to anyone who hasn't realised Windows Mobile is crap yet.
it seems to me that Microsoft are about to fall under the shadow of Apple and Nokia quite abruptly. somebody tell me i'm wrong!
p.s. - Athena for sale if anyone wants one
sounds like you either did a bad flash or got a bad batch coz my athena has never crashed once or had any of the problems you described.never the less,how much are you selling it for?is it an x7501 or x7500?
i can see what your on about , but personally i find that my Athena(Ameo) ticks about every box i want it to.
I want an all in one device for browsing, streaming, phoning and texting and running some other apps and the Athena is the only all in one device that ticks all those boxes for me. I like the thought of the Eee PC but only if it can run XP properly but still you need 2 devices which isnt what i want to do.
Hi Leoni1980,
I think its a question of how you configure your device. I agree that WM6 in its native mode is crap. It takes too many strokes to start an applicatio. It does not tell you what applications are active. It is difficult to switch from one to another. Yes, the list could be long.
However, I also find that with WM6 there are so many good third party software to overcome these limitations. While it takes too many clicks to start an application, iLauncher allows me to put every single applications on the today screen. While Wm6 does not tell you what applications are alive, wktask puts every running application on the taskbar and let me switch to anyone easily. WM6 lets me multitask. While pocket IE is crude in its navigation, pieplus makes it all pleasant.
For me, everything works extremely well. Athena is almost perfect in terms of portability, battery life, screen size and connectivity..
However, I agree that internet browsing is too slow. Even comparing it with a dialed up connection on a pc, it is relatively slow, unless I use the "mobile" versions of webpages. With the mobile versions, everything is snappy and instantaneous. Is Nokia not like that? Is Nokia able to let you browse the desktop version of webpages without any response time delay? If it is, microsoft would truly got to wake up and do something about it. Another thing that we have to be careful is not to fall into the trap of thinking grass is greener on the other side. According to Nokia customer support the N800 does not support 802.1X authentication with EAP-TTLS and PAP. Also, despite being a Linux based device the N800 lacks out of the box support for Ogg format media files.
So, Nokia is able to play the desktop version of youtube. I agree that this is a glaring disadvantage of Wm6 at the moment. W don't have the latest version of flash. Why is this the case is hard for me to understand. Why can Nokia have it and not WM6? Now, the only way to watch youtube desktop version is to download the flv files. Would be nice to be able to watch them without having to first download the videos.
You're now carrying two devices. A subnotebook and an old Hermes. This is definitely not a good way for me, because the subnotebook is too big and too battery short for me to carry it with me all the time. Not to mention that now there are two pieces of gear to carry instead of just one.
Having an all in one requires some compromises. You won't have the best digital camera in the world with this arrangement. Similarly, you won't have the biggest screens to go with it. There is always room for improvement, but for now, I still think Athena is the best device available in the market.
if i had to carry the subnotebook about ALL THE TIME i would agree, however i have the hermes for when i'm unfortunate enough to have to use internet explorer mobile.
The EEE is not actually THAT MUCH bigger than the Athena, and has very good battery life- almost twice that of the Shift running Vista. It is also capable of running full Xp. there are lots of videos on the subject and the EEE manual even tells you how to do it. Although on paper the EEE has a poorer battery life it is also far more responsive and thus allows me to do things in a quarter of the time it would on the Athena. As such battery life is not really an issue.
With regard to the N95's ability to display full web pages - I promise you this is the case. I've even found it capable of accessing sites the Athena was not capable of.
I initially wrote this off as perhaps a better 3g transmitter on the N95, but i tested my Athena over wifi for the first time the other day and still it rendered web pages in a painfully sluggish manner, despite our relatively fast broadband connection. The same was true when tested with Opera. This makes me believe that there is an inherent problem with the architecture of windows mobile which even the greatest developer couldn't overcome.
I wholly disagree with shortyboy's bad flash assertion - I've owned windows mobile devices for years and this problem has always existed.
Nor is it a configuration issue. I spend most of my days off tweaking phones to improve their performance. The fact is that no amount of tweaking will make an Athena as good at rendering web pages as a nokia or an iphone. Once microsoft sees this they might (we hope) scrap their plans to release wm7 with (no doubt) its FEW performance tweaks, the cute little flag in the top left-hand corner and the new, hardly-improved I.E. and build a whole new O.S. from scratch which makes the most of modern mobile cpus, doesn't look 10 years old and does everything it should out of the box. That way stupid hybrid devices like the Shift would never get off the ground as there would LITERALLY be no need for them.
Yes the Athena ticks every box in terms of connectivity - unfortunately this fact clouded my judgment of its actual performance - and that of all such devices - yes you can purchase all the third party software under the sun to make windows mobile usable but this software only makes life a little better, it doesn't FIX the problems.
Just have a play on an n810 when it comes out this month and you'll see what I mean -os2008 is so smooth, well-considered and functional. Just try browsing the internet on it, or watching a video on it. It just WORKS and works well. Even OS 2007 outperforms windows mobile.
Cex sell n800s for 200quid. This month they will all be upgradeable to os2008. The pocket gadget side of me is SORELY tempted!!
p.s. its an x7500 t-mobile branded. It has the 4-in-one and lots of other bits.
I agree with many of your points on the Athenas lack of usability.
Mine is used for little more than a wireless access point these days, I'm in prison typing this on my Asus Eee pc running XP, which is much more of a pleasure to use for email and web browsing. (Not in prison as an inmate, I'm an officer...)
This nokia N800. It does not have a GPS, does it?
How about third party software?
I hope to check out on this myself. Anyone knows where in Sydney I could try out this device?
athena project need an athena
Midget_1990 said:
athena project need an athena
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its here if you need it Midget.
eaglesteve - the n800 has no inbuilt GPS receiver, although it is compatible with map software (including gmaps and Nokia Maps) and any bluetooth receivers. Many people prefer separate gps receivers as they can be positioned more effectively in the vehicle. It is pretty much identical in hardware terms to the n810 aside from the built-in keyboard and GPS. processor and ram are the same and it has two SDHC slots as opposed to the single one on the n810.
I think it's a bargain myself.
Took delivery of my black eee pc today and I'm so impressed by its size and performance. Everything works out of the box, from BBC online to divx stage six to youtube. It even picks up and syncs with my Ipod, and you can mod the look of the os to your heart's content.
ALL FOR JUST OVER 200 QUID!
It's bigger than the Athena, sure, but I had to carry the Athena in a bag anyway and the weight/mass difference is negligible in this scenario. The battery life is not technically as good either - but it boots SOOOOOO quick that this almost isn't an issue. I can fire it up and use it when I need it if I'm out, and merrily use my old Hermes for practical pocket pc/telephone duties - even Wifi access point functionality.
I literally don't need the Athena anymore.
I don't like a separate GPS unit. It means I need to carry two devices when I play golf, and can't get the fix prior to entering my car. Also, when I get off the train and walk, I can't use it to tell me direction to my destination as easily as Athena.
I still think Athena is the best for now. But I'm all ready to switch if there is a better product. I don't see such a product yet.
WM6 = WM5
Just think about that and try to realize that Windows Mobile 5 is A LOT OLDER than the OS'es on the iPhone and N800/N810.
WM7 will change a LOT on an HTC. (Different shell, different hardware)
And before you insult HTC, you need to wait on the new OS.
Agree.
WM6 is still based on ce5. Ce6 is about to be released. Looking forward to major major improvements
@ leoni's posts mainly
heh when i was in the US i had a chance to see the iphone. ... i was probably expecting too much, the crazy hype had me believe it had a truly revolutional interface and lots of amazing animations.
nope.
it was sorely disappointing... just a few ordinary tricks, nothing special or anything that would make the device more usable... for example, i prefer being able to multitask in a way i can see what apps are running without clicking anything, also a way to easily switch.. basically the good old taskbar
...so, i wouldn't be able to live without magicbuttons, or now, without wktask on WM6. yes WM GUI sucks out of the box at least as much as the iphone gui, but at least you can install these wonderful apps!
to be honest i still prefer plain CE because that has all this and more working out of the box - much nearer a real PC than the too much simplified down WM ... as i said only third party apps save WM.
where we disagree is i think the apps do fix most of the issues of WM.
my only problem with my athena is how it sometimes slows down if i type a lot on it. then i need to wait about 1 min, maybe close word mobile, then it is back to normal again. i sometimes use the wordpad i got out of platform builder, better in several respects than the sucky word mobile. that one app drives me crazy sometimes.
...though, i don't see how the iphone has any kind of word processor onboard.
i don't give a damn if it can't do MMS or 3G (i'm fine with gprs when i turn off pictures in the browser and i'm using vodafone's great APN which compresses data), and i don't care for the camera on any mobile phone so far.
what i need is just office and a proper browser and irc client and some more apps, and the iphone has NONE of those. crazy how limited it is.
oh before you start telling me how fabulous the browser is on the iphone ... it is not. it is slow loading pages, and the requirement of zooming in and out drives me crazy. and, the real deal breaker is how i could not open links in a new window at will. i do not mean opening a new empty window, i mean opening a link on an already loaded page, in a new window!! no one so far could show me how so i'm assuming it lacks this basic capability - for me, absolute dealbreaker, i cannot comfortably browse pages without that option.
i'd like to see the n800, though, the OS i hear is sluggish when multitasking. so i'm just curious about the browser.
200 quid.. hmm the 770 is only 100 : ) tempting yes, just no keyboard so that's a bit of an issue to me.
i'm not sure if your athena has no specific issues... i don't have the complaints on mine that you do... mine doesn't crash (except for above mentioned slow down but no reboot is required) and the browser is fast. but, i don't touch pocket internet explorer, i've never ever tried using it on the athena. opera is just so much faster and has none of the quirks of crappy PIE
so no, i don't have this "connecting" or "opening" message problem as i don't touch PIE.
also, opera here is quite fast! not sure what your issue is with it...
though maybe not as fast as the opera on my zaurus C760 pda linux does excel at browser speed options!
all in all... yes WM sucks, and microsoft should fix this, but until then i'm happy with wktask and the amazing hardware of the athena. finally a ppc that has a good enough (large enough) display which looks good in realvga too!! yeah realvga is again third party add on ... sigh! so to be really honest i wouldn't touch WM (except for hacking things! ), and would just use plain CE if it weren't for htc universal / athena (mainly athena!) and some essential third party apps. well CE is made by microsoft too so i don't understand how they got it so wrong with WM.
CE6 will be based on a different memory architecture and improved security (grr for hackers) and many other things, so i'm curious, but for me the GUI is the issue on WM and not really the kernel except for the couple of slow downs i mentioned. other than that WM5 and later seem to be exceptionally stable to me and no slow down just because i'm running several apps at once! i find that great!
so i'm hoping MS gets themselves together and improve on the GUI but please don't imitate the iphone - i like CE better. this is quite a personal view of course.
one last note.. as for the EEE, battery life and size is an issue for me. so sticking to athena (and my universals and my CE devices)
yes the EEE is that much bigger than the athena. :sigh:
also some of the tasks i use my devices for, cannot be done in a shorter time on XP, for example if i want to go online and chat for a few hours...good battery life is a must
ok i'll stop ranting here .. but this is such an interesting subject
p.s.: how is that i can only insert four smilies?! had to remove three because i typed seven of them, wtf
I saw an Asus Eee today in black.
looks very very nice for the money, the missus said she might buy it 4 me for xmas if I want it
hmm decisions decisions
spacecat said:
I saw an Asus Eee today in black.
looks very very nice for the money, the missus said she might buy it 4 me for xmas if I want it
hmm decisions decisions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got the black one myself on thursday through Ebuyer, though I believe they're out of stock at the mo. I've installed XP on it just to test it and it works perfectly, even the webcam works fine. It boots up in seconds which is unfamiliar territory for me!
I quite like the Linux interface though so I might go back to it eventually. Everything worked out of the box- youtube, stage 6, even Ipods. Only real prob I had with Linux was that I couldn't use Activesync but I liked the amount of tweaking you can do to it.
If you need any pics, comparisons or whatnot I can post them or forward them. I won't be looking back. It's a brillliant bit of kit, especially for the money.
p.s. you can even install mac osx on it, though the procedure is a tad complicated for me.
cmonex said:
@ leoni's posts mainly
heh when i was in the US i had a chance to see the iphone. ... i was probably expecting too much, the crazy hype had me believe it had a truly revolutional interface and lots of amazing animations.
nope.
it was sorely disappointing... just a few ordinary tricks, nothing special or anything that would make the device more usable... for example, i prefer being able to multitask in a way i can see what apps are running without clicking anything, also a way to easily switch.. basically the good old taskbar
...so, i wouldn't be able to live without magicbuttons, or now, without wktask on WM6. yes WM GUI sucks out of the box at least as much as the iphone gui, but at least you can install these wonderful apps!
to be honest i still prefer plain CE because that has all this and more working out of the box - much nearer a real PC than the too much simplified down WM ... as i said only third party apps save WM.
where we disagree is i think the apps do fix most of the issues of WM.
my only problem with my athena is how it sometimes slows down if i type a lot on it. then i need to wait about 1 min, maybe close word mobile, then it is back to normal again. i sometimes use the wordpad i got out of platform builder, better in several respects than the sucky word mobile. that one app drives me crazy sometimes.
...though, i don't see how the iphone has any kind of word processor onboard.
i don't give a damn if it can't do MMS or 3G (i'm fine with gprs when i turn off pictures in the browser and i'm using vodafone's great APN which compresses data), and i don't care for the camera on any mobile phone so far.
what i need is just office and a proper browser and irc client and some more apps, and the iphone has NONE of those. crazy how limited it is.
oh before you start telling me how fabulous the browser is on the iphone ... it is not. it is slow loading pages, and the requirement of zooming in and out drives me crazy. and, the real deal breaker is how i could not open links in a new window at will. i do not mean opening a new empty window, i mean opening a link on an already loaded page, in a new window!! no one so far could show me how so i'm assuming it lacks this basic capability - for me, absolute dealbreaker, i cannot comfortably browse pages without that option.
i'd like to see the n800, though, the OS i hear is sluggish when multitasking. so i'm just curious about the browser.
200 quid.. hmm the 770 is only 100 : ) tempting yes, just no keyboard so that's a bit of an issue to me.
i'm not sure if your athena has no specific issues... i don't have the complaints on mine that you do... mine doesn't crash (except for above mentioned slow down but no reboot is required) and the browser is fast. but, i don't touch pocket internet explorer, i've never ever tried using it on the athena. opera is just so much faster and has none of the quirks of crappy PIE
so no, i don't have this "connecting" or "opening" message problem as i don't touch PIE.
also, opera here is quite fast! not sure what your issue is with it...
though maybe not as fast as the opera on my zaurus C760 pda linux does excel at browser speed options!
all in all... yes WM sucks, and microsoft should fix this, but until then i'm happy with wktask and the amazing hardware of the athena. finally a ppc that has a good enough (large enough) display which looks good in realvga too!! yeah realvga is again third party add on ... sigh! so to be really honest i wouldn't touch WM (except for hacking things! ), and would just use plain CE if it weren't for htc universal / athena (mainly athena!) and some essential third party apps. well CE is made by microsoft too so i don't understand how they got it so wrong with WM.
CE6 will be based on a different memory architecture and improved security (grr for hackers) and many other things, so i'm curious, but for me the GUI is the issue on WM and not really the kernel except for the couple of slow downs i mentioned. other than that WM5 and later seem to be exceptionally stable to me and no slow down just because i'm running several apps at once! i find that great!
so i'm hoping MS gets themselves together and improve on the GUI but please don't imitate the iphone - i like CE better. this is quite a personal view of course.
one last note.. as for the EEE, battery life and size is an issue for me. so sticking to athena (and my universals and my CE devices)
yes the EEE is that much bigger than the athena. :sigh:
also some of the tasks i use my devices for, cannot be done in a shorter time on XP, for example if i want to go online and chat for a few hours...good battery life is a must
ok i'll stop ranting here .. but this is such an interesting subject
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't deem that a rant. Some very fair points very well put.
I must admit my experience of the Iphone is not as extensive as yours so I'll have to capitulate on that one. Though it seems to ace out windows mobile in terms of user input (on screen keyboard) and generally usability - takes a long while to get used to windows mobile if you've never experienced it.
I never experienced any slowdown on the n800 and i tested it a fair bit. With the os2008 upgrade things should only get better. It's a lot more user-friendly and the new os includes Firefox (which I prefer) instead of Opera.
I appreciate that the EEE is bigger than the Athena. when I said 'not that much' I meant that when carrying the EEE in the supplied case in a bag, compared to carrying the Athena in a bag - which I used to do in preference to cramming the device intpo my pocket - the difference is negligible.
I used to carry a bt keyboard and mouse with it also. Now compared to carrying a separate keyboard and mouse AND an Athena the difference is CERTAINLY negligible.
I can do everything on my old Hermes that I can do on the Athena - yes chatting and PDA stuff - and it has a better battery life. It also fits in my pocket nicely when I'm out and about.
For when I need full browsing, multimedia and office capability I've got the EEE - which is VERY portable, very rugged and even has a webcam if you want to do slightly more advanced chatting!
This is why I'm happy with my current setup.
leoni1980 said:
I didn't deem that a rant. Some very fair points very well put.
I must admit my experience of the Iphone is not as extensive as yours so I'll have to capitulate on that one. Though it seems to ace out windows mobile in terms of user input (on screen keyboard) and generally usability - takes a long while to get used to windows mobile if you've never experienced it.
I never experienced any slowdown on the n800 and i tested it a fair bit. With the os2008 upgrade things should only get better. It's a lot more user-friendly and the new os includes Firefox (which I prefer) instead of Opera.
I appreciate that the EEE is bigger than the Athena. when I said 'not that much' I meant that when carrying the EEE in the supplied case in a bag, compared to carrying the Athena in a bag - which I used to do in preference to cramming the device intpo my pocket - the difference is negligible.
I used to carry a bt keyboard and mouse with it also. Now compared to carrying a separate keyboard and mouse AND an Athena the difference is CERTAINLY negligible.
I can do everything on my old Hermes that I can do on the Athena - yes chatting and PDA stuff - and it has a better battery life. It also fits in my pocket nicely when I'm out and about.
For when I need full browsing, multimedia and office capability I've got the EEE - which is VERY portable, very rugged and even has a webcam if you want to do slightly more advanced chatting!
This is why I'm happy with my current setup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
like i said wait till dual comes out. the team had a breakthrough yesturday and a new app will be in dual.. more details when rom comes out.
cmonex said:
@ leoni's posts mainly
my only problem with my athena is how it sometimes slows down if i type a lot on it. then i need to wait about 1 min, maybe close word mobile, then it is back to normal again. i sometimes use the wordpad i got out of platform builder, better in several respects than the sucky word mobile. that one app drives me crazy sometimes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder what your thoughts are on Softmaker office Textmaker, which should be superb on the athena in 96dpi? You may not even get the slowdown that you describe in Word. I use PlanMaker (their spreadsheet) and it works quite well in (96dpi) on my athena.
leoni1980 said:
Got the black one myself on thursday through Ebuyer, though I believe they're out of stock at the mo. I've installed XP on it just to test it and it works perfectly, even the webcam works fine. It boots up in seconds which is unfamiliar territory for me!
I quite like the Linux interface though so I might go back to it eventually. Everything worked out of the box- youtube, stage 6, even Ipods. Only real prob I had with Linux was that I couldn't use Activesync but I liked the amount of tweaking you can do to it.
If you need any pics, comparisons or whatnot I can post them or forward them. I won't be looking back. It's a brillliant bit of kit, especially for the money.
p.s. you can even install mac osx on it, though the procedure is a tad complicated for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my current thinking is to get one and leave it at work, which is where i do most of my 'ATHENAring' ...is that a word !
And use my athena as an HSDPA modem for the Eee with XP installed on it.
I would then keep my Athena for when im out and about and NOT at work, hence keeping the full Athena mobility including the important ability to make calls and send texts.
Im not in a terrible hurry to do this and i understand that Asus are going to bring out upgraded versions of the Eee.
Bigger drives , 10 inch screen etc. Mind you its the small form factor that interests me esp as i may want to carry the Eee at some point.
I am however still well into my Athena and by the rom updates, looking forward to the DUAL rom which sounds exciting but im clueless as to what it can do more than PK3.0
Hey all,
A while ago I've started my hunt for a UMPC. My demands were not simple:
1. Relatively cheap - up to 700$
2. 3.5G connectivity
3. TV-OUT port
4. ~7" screen size
5. Good battery life
6. Keyboard of some kind
7. GPS
I've looked around and couldn't find anything that answered those demands. The biggest issue with UMPCs I've looked at is poor battery life. After a while, I started to think about the Athena as a UMPC alternative. It answers almost all of my demands except the smaller screen and of-course being a WM device its not a fully capable PC. I wanted to ask you Athena owners, if you think that the Athena could be the device for me. Do you feel the need for a more capable OS? Do you wish to replace it with a bigger UMPC? Do some of you have a UMPC and the Athena and feel they complete each other?
Thanks a lot....
EDIT: Just realised that I've posted this in the wrong forum. I'll put a new one in the main Athena forum.
I have owned the Athena for nearly a year now. I also own a Sony Vaio U70 (See info at this site: )
http://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/sony_vaio_U50.htm
Although both are small, portable, lightweight, same screen size, etc... I find more effective use of the Athena. The main features that make this a plus over the UMPC you have already stated, GPS, a keyboard of sorts, and HSDPA. I can travel for up to a week or so without the need for a laptop computer without compromise in keeping up with e-mails, opening almost every form of attachment, browse the web, connect with Hotel WiFi and have phone capabilities in one device. Carrying one charger is also a benefit. I can (have) connected the Athena to a full size monitor, a full keyboard and added a USB mouse. No reason a Bluetooth mouse shouldn't work as long as you pick your external components wisely.
I don't use the Athena every day as a UMPC replacement, but given the chioce while travelling, carrying it is always better than carrying a phone and the Sony or a phone and an 11 pound (5 kilo) laptop. The perfect UMPC has not yet been created in my view. The HTC Shift is getting closer, but is MUCH LARGER than the Athena and can not serve as a mobile phone. In time, the real UMPC that does it all will come, but when ???? is anybody's guess.
I was in the market for a new phone and laptop, and after getting the Athena I'm not looking for a laptop at this point. As the last poster said, its not perfect, but its close.
I own a Asus R2H UMPC along with my Athena, and i dont think that the athena type devices will replace umpc's or laptops in the near future, I believe that its windows mobile that limits their usefulness,
On my UMPC, i can open multiple windows at the same time, have tabbed browsing, be chatting to 3 of 4 people in messenger and very easily switch between them all.
In theory, my Athena can do all of these things, but in practise, the graphics are way too slow to switch between apps quickly (i believe this is a lack of driver issue though), you cant do tabbed browsing, and msn messenger on the athena is less than useless for me !, everything in WM seems very clunky and slow compared to my UMPC, the 2 do live side by side, but there's too many features that overlap between the 2 devices really, and i will likely be selling my athena soon to get a smaller mobile phone with a gps in it for sat nav (and one that has a graphics driver in it so that my phone can update tomtom at more than 1 frame every 3 seconds !!)
Overall, i think you either need to accept the limitations of the athena and use it as it is, or get a smaller mobile and a decent umpc like the R2H
Mosser said:
I own a Asus R2H UMPC along with my Athena, and i dont think that the athena type devices will replace umpc's or laptops in the near future, I believe that its windows mobile that limits their usefulness,
On my UMPC, i can open multiple windows at the same time, have tabbed browsing, be chatting to 3 of 4 people in messenger and very easily switch between them all.
In theory, my Athena can do all of these things, but in practise, the graphics are way too slow to switch between apps quickly (i believe this is a lack of driver issue though), you cant do tabbed browsing, and msn messenger on the athena is less than useless for me !, everything in WM seems very clunky and slow compared to my UMPC, the 2 do live side by side, but there's too many features that overlap between the 2 devices really, and i will likely be selling my athena soon to get a smaller mobile phone with a gps in it for sat nav (and one that has a graphics driver in it so that my phone can update tomtom at more than 1 frame every 3 seconds !!)
Overall, i think you either need to accept the limitations of the athena and use it as it is, or get a smaller mobile and a decent umpc like the R2H
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opera, netfront 3.5 and mozilla all do tabbed browsing on the athena !
Mosser said:
I own a Asus R2H UMPC along with my Athena, and i dont think that the athena type devices will replace umpc's or laptops in the near future, I believe that its windows mobile that limits their usefulness,
On my UMPC, i can open multiple windows at the same time, have tabbed browsing, be chatting to 3 of 4 people in messenger and very easily switch between them all.
In theory, my Athena can do all of these things, but in practise, the graphics are way too slow to switch between apps quickly (i believe this is a lack of driver issue though), you cant do tabbed browsing, and msn messenger on the athena is less than useless for me !, everything in WM seems very clunky and slow compared to my UMPC, the 2 do live side by side, but there's too many features that overlap between the 2 devices really, and i will likely be selling my athena soon to get a smaller mobile phone with a gps in it for sat nav (and one that has a graphics driver in it so that my phone can update tomtom at more than 1 frame every 3 seconds !!)
Overall, i think you either need to accept the limitations of the athena and use it as it is, or get a smaller mobile and a decent umpc like the R2H
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't use MSN for chat. Try IM+ instead. It lets you simultenously chat in Yahoo, google, and eveything else that exist all at the same time.
I've used many UMPC before although they did'nt call it by that name then. The battery last too short, it takes too long to boot up, it is too big to be used as a mobile device and too small as a desktop.
If you tom tom update 1 frame every 3 seconds, something is wrong with your setup. Athena does not have such limitation, and there is no reason to accept such limitation.
eaglesteve said:
Don't use MSN for chat. Try IM+ instead. It lets you simultenously chat in Yahoo, google, and eveything else that exist all at the same time.
I've used many UMPC before although they did'nt call it by that name then. The battery last too short, it takes too long to boot up, it is too big to be used as a mobile device and too small as a desktop.
If you tom tom update 1 frame every 3 seconds, something is wrong with your setup. Athena does not have such limitation, and there is no reason to accept such limitation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second what eaglesteve said about the slow frame rate. Not even when I was running factory ROM it wasn't that slow. I suggest you try backing up and reinstalling the latest ROM for your device. IM+ is the best thing I've seen thus far for the Athena although, I didn't have any issues with msn messenger. I strongly recommend IM+ and just do a little research before the down the device. Plus it packs so much power for such a small device it's worth every penny.
Maybe i just need mine setup better then ?, I've never tried IM+, does it allow you to chat to many people at once ? and can it save your chat history ?, these are the 2 features i must have as i get told a lot of technical information when using messenger which i need to refer back to hours or even days later which is why i use a umpc, and is there an easy way to keep minimise rather than close running programs ?
The battery life on my umpc is fine, but then it goes between car and house and in both those places, i have a power lead for it, so it rarely needs to run on the battery, and i have an additional long run battery for my R2H anyway
tootallk2000 said:
I second what eaglesteve said about the slow frame rate. Not even when I was running factory ROM it wasn't that slow. I suggest you try backing up and reinstalling the latest ROM for your device. IM+ is the best thing I've seen thus far for the Athena although, I didn't have any issues with msn messenger. I strongly recommend IM+ and just do a little research before the down the device. Plus it packs so much power for such a small device it's worth every penny.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What frame rate do you get then ?, i have been watching youtube videos comparing the athena to hp pda's and tomtom running on the ameo is ridiculously slow, i actually miss turnings with mine sometimes because it takes so long to update the screen !
Mosser said:
What frame rate do you get then ?, i have been watching youtube videos comparing the athena to hp pda's and tomtom running on the ameo is ridiculously slow, i actually miss turnings with mine sometimes because it takes so long to update the screen !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use mine all the time, and it is not that bad at all, you would have to be cornering at 80 MPH for the athena not to keep up with you, SERIOUSLY
PS I think you have a GPS fault on your receiver, either that or the port baud speed might be incorrect !
kramerica2 said:
I've looked around and couldn't find anything that answered those demands. The biggest issue with UMPCs I've looked at is poor battery life. After a while, I started to think about the Athena as a UMPC alternative. It answers almost all of my demands except the smaller screen and of-course being a WM device its not a fully capable PC. I wanted to ask you Athena owners, if you think that the Athena could be the device for me. Do you feel the need for a more capable OS? Do you wish to replace it with a bigger UMPC? Do some of you have a UMPC and the Athena and feel they complete each other?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Athena is not perfect but a very good device - it is let down by WM which is a poor OS really given that MS have been trying for years on mobile devices and it is now version 6. If the Athena could run a proper OS then I think you would have what you want. For the time being we all put up with WM failings and mostly enjoy our Athena experience.
I don't see a long life UMPC coming too soon that will deliver everything that you asked for ....
In my belief, there can't be a perfect UMPC (or atleast better than athena) in near future ...
When we talk about a laptop or mobile device, we all need small size, good battery life, full connectivity etc etc ... Athena offers all that, except that it does not runs a fully blown windows, though: it may be running a full linux soon, there is a magician sitting and working towards it, his name is Cr2, find him on this forum.
Athena UMPC Features:
1. Emails: Athena can do wonders using Flexmail. I have it set with our IMAP server and with IMAP idle its as good as it can get. You get emails instantly, you get to view all attachments and everything that outlook can do on windows xp.
2. Browsing: Opera 8.5 alone itself is good enough for most of the websites, Netscape 3.5 and Opera 9.5 beta installed can take you 99% close to laptops or windows xp exp. Wait for some months and you won't even see that 1% difference.
3. Document editing: Install Softmaker office 2008. Once installed you will get to work on any document you want, make small changes and save/send them across.
4. For developers: Install Cedit, resco explorer (with ftp add-on) and there you go, you have a programmers editor and ftp support to download/upload pages from your website.
5. For db admins: Download and install PocketSqlMan, this will enable you to administer any mssql server (and you don't need to install anything on the server machine, just install PocketSqlMan on your ppc and connect to any ms sql server).
6. Chat: IM+ is the way to go, simply awesome. Multi chat, quick interface.
7. GPS: Set it right, do a simple search on this forum and you will find the correct settings, i don't remember them of hand.
8. Multimedia: With 8gb storage (and 12 gb minisds already in market) you cannot ask for more here. Install TCPMP, the core pocket media player and you can play almost anything, youtube videos, divx etc etc
9. Games: There are a handfull of games for pocket pcs, i am sure you will find something to keep you busy (while i prefer to keep it light and spend time on solitaire mostly).
10. System admins: There is PocketPutty for Linux admins and Remote desktop installed on the device already.
I mean what else people are looking for in a UMPC ... maybe i am those satisfied types, but do let us know what is missing and probably people developing Pk 4.0 can pick things up from here and make it an even greater ROM release.
...
dheerajjuneja said:
In my belief, there can't be a perfect UMPC (or atleast better than athena) in near future ...
When we talk about a laptop or mobile device, we all need small size, good battery life, full connectivity etc etc ... Athena offers all that, except that it does not runs a fully blown windows, though: it may be running a full linux soon, there is a magician sitting and working towards it, his name is Cr2, find him on this forum.
Athena UMPC Features:
1. Emails: Athena can do wonders using Flexmail. I have it set with our IMAP server and with IMAP idle its as good as it can get. You get emails instantly, you get to view all attachments and everything that outlook can do on windows xp.
2. Browsing: Opera 8.5 alone itself is good enough for most of the websites, Netscape 3.5 and Opera 9.5 beta installed can take you 99% close to laptops or windows xp exp. Wait for some months and you won't even see that 1% difference.
3. Document editing: Install Softmaker office 2008. Once installed you will get to work on any document you want, make small changes and save/send them across.
4. For developers: Install Cedit, resco explorer (with ftp add-on) and there you go, you have a programmers editor and ftp support to download/upload pages from your website.
5. For db admins: Download and install PocketSqlMan, this will enable you to administer any mssql server (and you don't need to install anything on the server machine, just install PocketSqlMan on your ppc and connect to any ms sql server).
6. Chat: IM+ is the way to go, simply awesome. Multi chat, quick interface.
7. GPS: Set it right, do a simple search on this forum and you will find the correct settings, i don't remember them of hand.
8. Multimedia: With 8gb storage (and 12 gb minisds already in market) you cannot ask for more here. Install TCPMP, the core pocket media player and you can play almost anything, youtube videos, divx etc etc
9. Games: There are a handfull of games for pocket pcs, i am sure you will find something to keep you busy (while i prefer to keep it light and spend time on solitaire mostly).
10. System admins: There is PocketPutty for Linux admins and Remote desktop installed on the device already.
I mean what else people are looking for in a UMPC ... maybe i am those satisfied types, but do let us know what is missing and probably people developing Pk 4.0 can pick things up from here and make it an even greater ROM release.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't play pc games on the Athena.
The USB ports are only 1.1 so very limited with respect to copying files over, and even viewing content is a bit laggy.
UMPCs usually have at least 40gb storage out of the box.
For decent, UMPC-style input you need a separate keyboard. The squishy, unlit, and uncomfortably laid-out Athena hardware keyboard is not up to the job - particularly for word processing and extensive emailing - necessitating an external keyboard for decent 'umpc-style' usage.
No p2p or limewire clients. I remember there was winmobile torrent but that wasn't very good and you had to pay for it.
reolution is low compared to many current UMPCs
Photoshop, Premiere, blah-de-blah - all editing suites are infinitely better in windows, particularly with a higher-resolution screen.
Thank you all, I got my x7500 today. Looks good so far.
lucky guy, 2 weeks, and I'll have [another] one of my own
how you finding it? and is it a branded one, or just plain htc... or is even the x7501 :O ? lol
Rory
rorydaredkign said:
lucky guy, 2 weeks, and I'll have [another] one of my own
how you finding it? and is it a branded one, or just plain htc... or is even the x7501 :O ? lol
Rory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So far its been pretty good. You can see my thread with questions, so not everything is perfect for me. Its a plain HTC X7500 device.
dheerajjuneja's post looks something i could take note of too.
thanks. ciao!
maybe look into the HTC shift. it's only just released and is MUCH bigger but i think it may meet your needs
The shift IMHO is doomed to be a failure:
1. Battery life is far from sufficient.
2. Quite expensive.
3. The WM is too crippled, and from what I've heard isn't very usable.
Anyway, after almost 1 week with the Athena it seems that I've made the right choice and the size is perfect for me.
Glad to hear that ... yes, you made a very good choice.
If you are coming from linux background, linux is going to come to Athena soon ... our magician Cr2 is working on the drivers (Please confirm Cr2, if you are listening)
Anyways, enjoy your device ...
It's a shame, but I have been visiting this forum for a year or two now and must say - this forum is dead. It's a shame because , looking at new tablet pcs and similar devices entering the market, I think athena still is a good device, offering a lot of possibilities. Unfortunately I know nothing of ROM cooking and all the cooks have left us. Too bad
mietulo said:
It's a shame, but I have been visiting this forum for a year or two now and must say - this forum is dead. It's a shame because , looking at new tablet pcs and similar devices entering the market, I think athena still is a good device, offering a lot of possibilities. Unfortunately I know nothing of ROM cooking and all the cooks have left us. Too bad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, this is the way with all devices these days..... I still use my Athena as a backup unit in case I muck up one of my other units....LOL
Later........... B)
I also think the HTCx7500 continues to be a good device. The things that is attractive with the new devices is the advancement of touch screen technology. Cypress true touch technology for example offer not only multi touch but also the ability to do hovering because the screen can sense the finger as soon as the finger is near the screen.
Undeniably Nice to play and might offer conveniences to a certain degree. But unless there is a way to browse the net as fast as a proper laptop or a way to do document processing or powerpoint slides editing 70% as efficiently as a desktop, what the newer device can offer as compared to HTC x7500 is just cosmetics. I can get the same job done with not much of a problem with the Athena as compared to the newer devices.
So, the things that will attract me to newer devices will be
1. Faster internet browsing
2. Document processing / slide editing
3. Looonger battery life
4. Snappiness of the operating system even after installing many programs
5. softwares availability - not specially controlled by a central "market" and all software makers have to pass their work to them and let their work be distributed by one central point where users can download and use free or paid.
Zooming with 2 fingers or 5 fingers is interesting but zooming by just pushing my athena directional buttons up and down isn't such a difficult job either.
Special today's page / Home menus like the ones in Androids or iphones are also not something difficult to reproduce or customized under windows mobile.
Athena still rocks!
Glad I chose to sell mine when I did. It was a device that was ahead of its time. Shame Android never took off on it.
Something different
The prices of these babies have dropped so much that I just bought one recently... after using various newer HTCs, etc, that are all basically the same, this ancient gadget was actually a breath of fresh air. Besides the marginal interior updates, OS versions, and the gradual screen size upgrades, I really can't figure out what's inherently different with almost all smartphones today... although using the athena needs somewhat of a change in mindset (especially of what is a phone), having something different to play with is already a big plus and an actual experience.... please phone makers, lets make the effort of trying to do something different and not just marketing something as different.
I want to browse the internet, do some emailing, write something in my blog, check auction sites, watch youtubes, can the HTC x7500 handle that? (YES - Opera mini, streaming player, etc)
I want to do some word processing, write a novel, edit some documents, and make sure the work can be in sync with my laptop/desktop. Can the HTC x7500 handle that? (YES - pocketword. document2go, softmaker textmaker, pnotepad)
I want to go through my powerpoint slides and rehearse, re position/re sort the slides, correct a few wordings and make sure i can keep both the slides i have in my desktop and my pocketpc in sync, can the HTC x7500 handle that? (YES - pocket powerpoint, clear vue slides, ...)
I want to enjoy listening to some mp3, can the HTC x7500 handle that? (YES - tcmp player, coreplayer)
I want to watch some movies in avi, wmv, flv, rm, mp4 format, can the HTC x7500 handle that? (YES - tcmp player with the correct codecs)
I want to do some voice recording, can the Athena handle that? (YES - resco audio recorder)
I want to share some photos album with friends sitting together in a restaurant, can the Athena handle that? (YES - resco picture viewer)
I want to connect to internet using 3g/ HSDPDA, because WIFI is unavailable, can the ATHENA handle that? (YES - just make sure 3G services in my data card is active)
I want to transfer file from pc, mobile phone to Anthena or transfer from my athena to my friend's mobile phone without using wires, can the Athena handle that? (YES - bluetooth connections, mocha ftp server, ...)
I wan to play some games, ?? (YES - gba emulator, nes..., playstation 1 emulator, Java, Just games made for pocket pc, etc)
I don't see what the other devices (androids or Ipods) can do that i cannot do with my ATHENA. Yes, I would love it if there is a way to try out putting ANdroids os in my athena but it will be just for fun and to know that there is one more choice of os i can use if i feel like it. Honestly, if there is a 7 inch windows mobile device, I might consider.
One of the MOST important thing that keeps me monitoring the android development is actually BATTERY LIFE (7 hrs with wifi on) and fast zooming.
Many people who try to impress me with android will show me how smooth the screen scrolls here and there with just a flick of the finger. Impressive but when i stop to think over, I realized that i am not going to spend my whole time flicking the screen here and there and just for the thrill to see how the screen can actually change simply by a flick of a finger.
What i will do mostly is click on a program i need to use and start typing or imputing. Scrolling and panning is only useful when i am reading long documents like webpages or ebooks. That is why i like isilo because it allows you to scroll without the need to use the scroll bar.
Fast zooming is another thing that i would like to see on mobile devices. The kind of fast zooming used in opera browsers and netfront browsers are heading in the right direction. FAst zooming is already something that is fast developing even under windows mobile environment.
So, in the end, it comes to a matter of which operating system uses less battery power and will allow longer battery life.
My Athena is going on ebay this weekend because I have one of these now, might be something to look into for the rest of you, as there is an active hacker community too:
http://www.slatedroid.com/wiki/index.php?title=Pandigital_Novel
I only used the Athena as a nightstand emailer/websurfer/weatherchecker, so I have no use for a phone. It worked well enough for that, but the PDN is even better for my needs, and now works with android market. Very cool not to have to activesync to move downloaded cabs to the athena, plus there won't be much activity for winmo anymore since everything is incompatible with wp7 as I understand, while android market is just beginning. Just found a solution that works for my needs, and thought I would share it. Athena was good to me, but it's time for her to move on about her life's work.
Fashion
It does seem a shame that just as big screen devices like this one are coming into fashion this forum has fallen into disuse. It doesn't stop it from still being a very good device, and still very usable in my view. Plus with the amount of ROMS to choose from on this forum there must be one to suit most people. You never know, we may get another cook some time.
regards
Jay
Yes, the Android os is very interesting to look at. If someone created a 7 inch - 10 inch screen tablet with windows mobile 6.1, (or even wm5,6), I would seriously consider but of course the battery life must be good and the processor and ram should have enough power to improve internet experience.
I've used all sorts of devices, from Psion to OQO, Everun, Zaurus, HTC BA etc etc. Recently I bought the Ameo and I can say that after some customisation this little device fits my bill perfectly.
The Ameo has been more flexible (keyboard/Tablet, case, landscape/portrait, 3G/WiFi) than the Archos 5IT it replaced. Sure, Android is nice and iOS is fluid and modern, but the Ameo kills them all with a large 4/3 screen.
I'm using it right now with a Logitech wireless mouse, it's been on all day with a 30% battery drain, browsing with Opera Mobile 10 over 3G.
I wish manufactures would revisit the 4/3 aspect ratio, not everybody wants to watch widescreen films all day, and books look terrible in portrait on thin devices.
Many thanks to the members of these forums for all the tweaks and custom ROMs. this Ameo isn't dead yet.
Last week I bought one of the android tablet made in china. It is called APAD 7 inch styleflying.
The android os has somethings going but I have a number of complains. One of them is why did they do away with "scrollbars." While it is true that Many many people enjoy swiping the screen up and down and feel the screen moving at the command of the finger but it is also true that SCROLLBARS do make sense. Without scrollbars, i believe that many users have experience accidentally opening a program while they were trying to flip the screen up and down. android wants to do things differently I guess but in the process, they took away something very practical and useful. Just my personal opinion. If they want to do something that appears different, they can do what HTC hd2 did. When I look carefully, i realise that in fact, HTC hd2 has a kind of scroll bar on the main screen. It doesn't look like the traditional scrollbar but it does the same job. It allows the user to accurately move from page to page by pushing a slider. And who said programs in Android doesn't crash or hang or stop responding. In my experience, they do.
Anyway, it is a free operating system and it is open source so I hope it will improve in time to come.
Meanwhile, my Athena HTC x7500 rocks! If only I can wake up one morning and find my 5 inch screen Athena grow up and become 7 inch screen! Heh Heh!
5 inch is good size. But i would surely not mind having a 7 inch screen HTC x7500 in my collection.
I am new to the Athena myself by just having bought one for about 200 USD - and it was a great find as it is in perfect shape, looks brand new, no scratches whatsoever!
I sold my Acer F900, as I am through with touchphones, I hate them - it's too bulky and smart for a phone, but too little to do productive work (for me that's office and remote computer administration, mainly). So I decided to scrap the smarthphone, and go back to the roots: buy a small and light cellphone with physical buttons and a PDA.
So I went for the x7500, and I love it! It's 3 years old, and still getting the job done!
My only complaint now is with WiFi: it seems to 'forget' the passwords for APs for some reason...
Btw I use an extra light Taxist WM6.1 ROM (42 Megs), as I have my own proven programs I am using for years, so everything except the OS is unnecessary junk.
it is a shame it is not popular.
I have this device since June. I guess I am getting old, and the little screen of my Polaris was just not fun anymore. The screen of the Athena and the real keyboard were really the 2 attractive points before I touched the beast for real.
So here we go for a search and I found one almost new 5 months ago over the net for 200 Euros.
That's probably the best deal I have done.
I have the device at work and at home, also at customer site. I receive my calls (through Bluetooth), while taking notes or making reports. Even camera pictures are good to fill in reports. WM6.5 works great on this fast device, the only thing I miss is the letter recogniser mode when I have to take notes not seating somewhere. But vocal notes do the trick.
i check my mails both personnals and professionnals, review a presentation in the plane, give free phonecalls to my family while travelling, and finish by a good movie or the news on streaming TV.
It is said to be big, but in fact not bigger than a decent leather covered organizer.
So bad they stopped it...
And so bad there is so few brands believing in this all-in-one concept !!!
does anybody of you have a decent, stable ROM for it?
most of the links here are dead and trying the ROMs i was able to find was a great disappointment...i tried them all, even the Wm 6 ones.
thanks!
KukurikU said:
does anybody of you have a decent, stable ROM for it?
most of the links here are dead and trying the ROMs i was able to find was a great disappointment...i tried them all, even the Wm 6 ones.
thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For dead links to ROMs, the trick is to Google the exact name and see if some kind soul has uploaded them somewhere - try it, it sometimes works.
I am using AGB 3.0 - to be honest, the device is slow by modern standards, and it not really finger-friendly, it takes quite a tap with a finger to get the thing to respond.
However, yesterday, a young American looked impressively at it as I used it in the train, and asked if it was a phone or a tablet - and what OS it ran. I told him it was old, several years old, and ran WM (albeit a new version). OK, he was disappointed - but that is it, this gadget was way ahead of its time, if they did it again, it would succeed with a few tweaks (modern CPU, faster and better battery).
rjstep3
KukurikU said:
does anybody of you have a decent, stable ROM for it?
most of the links here are dead and trying the ROMs i was able to find was a great disappointment...i tried them all, even the Wm 6 ones.
thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check Michy's sigs in any of his comments - there is a link to all of his ROMs, he removed it from rapidshare.
I recommend his Clear Edition 6 R1 or something version - I found it quite usable as I wasn't able to revert the WM6.5 start menu, found in the AVG 3 rom, to 6.1.
Nah, not dead, still in daily use by many. My Athena was 3 years old last month and I still haven't found a phone that I might want (the HD2 is close, but I got one for my wife and the screen still just feels too small). Still carry it every day.
Me too! I have tested HD2, tested Androids but the Athena is still amazing!
help making it alive agine....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=849080
I came across some information today basically stating that any phone Microsoft allows to use Windows needs to meet certain requirements, which are pretty high.
These phones must have at least a 480x800 multitouch display, a 5 megapixel camera, minumum 256mb RAM and 8gb storage, DirectX compatibility, FM Radio, and some other requirements.
Now, as far as I know about Android, any device that will be able to run it, is allowed.
Would Android devices be better if they were required to meet certain requirements, or would quality suffer as manufacturers tried to cut cost while keeping the requirements? Any opinions?
We already have great high end phones. But why should google exclude the less serious user?
Sent from my HTC Desire Z
There's no reason why we shouldn't have a whole range of Android phones.
And plus, why would Android steal a page out of WP7's strategy? It's not like Microsoft's limitations have brought them great success.
uhm because that goes against everything "open source" stand for????
Enhanced said:
There's no reason why we shouldn't have a whole range of Android phones.
And plus, why would Android steal a page out of WP7's strategy? It's not like Microsoft's limitations have brought them great success.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google already has, with the new Android market. The Metro UI WP7 uses is prevalent throughout the Android market.
MartyLK said:
Google already has, with the new Android market. The Metro UI WP7 uses is prevalent throughout the Android market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everything that has rectangles is now "Metro UI"? Holy eff. It's rectangles, people! It's not a Microsoft invention.
And to address the topic of this thread, as others have already mentioned, why not allow a full range of android phones? If you want high quality, you'll have to spend some money, but I don't see what's wrong with having cheap less powerful phones around at the same time. Diversity is good.
Gusar321 said:
Everything that has rectangles is now "Metro UI"? Holy eff. It's rectangles, people! It's not a Microsoft invention.
And to address the topic of this thread, as others have already mentioned, why not allow a full range of android phones? If you want high quality, you'll have to spend some money, but I don't see what's wrong with having cheap less powerful phones around at the same time. Diversity is good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Watch what you, I heard that Apple invented rectangles...not MS, no doubt there's a patent court case pending....
I have created this thread after asking this question in a different thread. drupad2drupad suggested i create a thread and sticky it. I agree, thought it might be useful to others. Hope its helpful.
I used to always use Windows phones (back in the days of WM6.5), but the draw of android tempted me. Now i am considering a returning to the the land that is Microsoft. The titan looked like a really good bet for me, but i had the following concerns:
Single core: I know microsoft says there is no real need for dual core phones, but a friend of mine has got a sensation XE, and compared to my desire HD, it flies! Even though my desire is clocked at 1.8Ghz the sensation is running stock 1.5Ghz x2. Can WP7 be that different?
512 MB of RAM: This seems pityfull in todays phones, my old HD2 that! Does WP7 have better memory management than android?
No SD Slot: This is just plain criminal, i have a 32 Gig card and its almost full! Adding a slot could not add that much to the price/Bulk of the device.
Screen Resolution: That lovely big screen was a major attractant to me, But 480x800. 640x960 is becoming the norm with screens nearly a inch smaller in size.
Beloved TomTom: This is more of a general WP7 Gripe. I used TomTom with my old WM6.5 devices, it is hands down the best navigation software. I know android has no TomTom but this would get me back to windows handsets in a flash! I use sat nav for 3-4 hours a day at work, mostly in rural places. Nothing matches TomTom for accuracy or re-routing. Come on TomTom, sort it out!
Please don't take any of this as criticism over the phone. I was seriously tempted when the titan came along. Just me venting my thoughts.
Sorry if i hijacked the thread, just seemed like a good opportunity to ask.
So the big question is, to stay with android or run with WP7?
Have you or any other WP7 users got any thoughts on that?
Regards
Your friendly HTC Titan Moderator
Android To Titan?
original_ganjaman said:
Hi there
This might be a good question(s) for you, as you have come from a android device.
I used to always use Windows phones (back in the days of WM6.5), but the draw of android tempted me. Now i am considering a returning to the the land that is Microsoft. The titan looked like a really good bet for me, but i had the following concerns:
Single core: I know microsoft says there is no real need for dual core phones, but a friend of mine has got a sensation XE, and compared to my desire HD, it flies! Even though my desire is clocked at 1.8Ghz the sensation is running stock 1.5Ghz x2. Can WP7 be that different?
512 MB of RAM: This seems pityfull in todays phones, my old HD2 that! Does WP7 have better memory management than android?
No SD Slot: This is just plain criminal, i have a 32 Gig card and its almost full! Adding a slot could not add that much to the price/Bulk of the device.
Screen Resolution: That lovely big screen was a major attractant to me, But 480x800. 640x960 is becoming the norm with screens nearly a inch smaller in size.
Beloved TomTom: This is more of a general WP7 Gripe. I used TomTom with my old WM6.5 devices, it is hands down the best navigation software. I know android has no TomTom but this would get me back to windows handsets in a flash! I use sat nav for 3-4 hoursa day at work, mostly in rural places. Nothing matches TomTom for accuracy or re-routing. Come on TomTom, sort it out!
Please don't take any of this as criticism over the phone. I was seriously tempted when the titan came along. Just me venting my thoughts.
Sorry if i hijacked the thread, just seemed like a good opportunity to ask.
So the big question is, to stay with android or run with WP7?
Have you or any other WP7 users got any thoughts on that?
Regards
Your friendly HTC Titan Moderator
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi!
I am so glad you asked this!
Probably your question and my answers need to be stickied somewhere, because I have been long time user of WinMo 6 and 6.5 and then Android's so called openness tempted me. I gave it a shot too. Ran gingerbread stock ROM with 1Ghz processor, ran Cyanogenmod 7 as well as custom gingerbread ROMs. Over clock to even 1.3 Ghz make that android pant for breath and oh those force closes! I still get those nightmares about things force closing right when you are trying to show off how cool your phone is with all those apps in it!
So I gathered courage (and money) to jump the android ship even after the reviews saying ICS will make it all better for android. Guess what? I don't regret it at all. I am so glad I made that switch.
Windows Phone 7 - is what professionals can design. Android is what open source can give. I just tweeted this morning about an interesting article that said, why Android will stay sluggish compared iOS and WP for rest of it's life until they do something what Microsoft did - it's in their framework.
They need that huge processor and huge dual cores because they got their framework wrong. The way they manage memory is ridiculous now that I have understood the difference between WP and Android. I know this will make my post long, but I think it's best if I summarize that article:
1) The UI rendering in android isnt done by separate dedicated thread in framework like WP7 or 7.5 does. So the priority of rendering UI is same as anything else on the phone = more memory requirement
2) In WP each view is rendered separately and stored in the memory. However in Android the UI is flattened before rendering. So this makes android to redraw the whole screen elements from scratch = more processing power
3) About memory - I think this is very much a personal preference. I don't sync my documents to my phone, I keep them on the SkyDrive most of the time. The only things that take up my memory is my songs, lots of them. But my requirement is nothing compared to yours. Say roughly 250 songs = 1GB, I will need to have 8000 songs that I listen to. Honestly, by the time I finish listening to these 8000 songs even once, I am sure there will be atleast 200 new songs. So I don't bother with music or storage much. 12GB serves me well.
4) Screen Res - If you are using AMOLED on Android, you will miss it for may be 3 days. If you are using LCD - you won't notice much difference in resolution. It would have been nicer to get higher res as you suggested, but for this price - it's much worth it with this UI!
5) TomTom - you've got to try Bing Maps! Come on, if you are on android and already don't have TomTom, I bet you've settled for something else. So if you can settle for something else on Android, why not on WP? And the market apps are being added, I don't think TomTom is much farther.
After such a lengthy post, I think I should add, that I've used exactly same spec and same size phone i.e. HTC Sensation XL on the side with HTC Titan. Sensation XL runs Android, Titan runs WP7.
I can bet anyone £500, without rooting and overclocking Sensation XL - show me that it works and looks as good as Titan! - It doesn't.
Every evening I try to play with Sensation XL, trying to make myself regret buying WP because I don't have so called 'must have apps' - but that counts for nothing as soon as I see live tiles on WP and think of the flawless working.
Hint: I bought both phones 3 weeks ago. I got 8 force closes and 2 reboots on Sensation XL so far. I haven't got single freeze or reboot on Titan. - see how different WP7 is compared to 6.5?
Sorry, I forgot to add - if you are a phone user whose life depends more on apps than flawless UI, integration and speed - Don't switch from Android. WP will need at least 12-15 months to have even half the apps (good or ****e) any other platform has.
original_ganjaman said:
Hi there
This might be a good question(s) for you, as you have come from a android device.
I used to always use Windows phones (back in the days of WM6.5), but the draw of android tempted me. Now i am considering a returning to the the land that is Microsoft. The titan looked like a really good bet for me, but i had the following concerns:
Single core: I know microsoft says there is no real need for dual core phones, but a friend of mine has got a sensation XE, and compared to my desire HD, it flies! Even though my desire is clocked at 1.8Ghz the sensation is running stock 1.5Ghz x2. Can WP7 be that different?
512 MB of RAM: This seems pityfull in todays phones, my old HD2 that! Does WP7 have better memory management than android?
No SD Slot: This is just plain criminal, i have a 32 Gig card and its almost full! Adding a slot could not add that much to the price/Bulk of the device.
Screen Resolution: That lovely big screen was a major attractant to me, But 480x800. 640x960 is becoming the norm with screens nearly a inch smaller in size.
Beloved TomTom: This is more of a general WP7 Gripe. I used TomTom with my old WM6.5 devices, it is hands down the best navigation software. I know android has no TomTom but this would get me back to windows handsets in a flash! I use sat nav for 3-4 hoursa day at work, mostly in rural places. Nothing matches TomTom for accuracy or re-routing. Come on TomTom, sort it out!
Please don't take any of this as criticism over the phone. I was seriously tempted when the titan came along. Just me venting my thoughts.
Sorry if i hijacked the thread, just seemed like a good opportunity to ask.
So the big question is, to stay with android or run with WP7?
Have you or any other WP7 users got any thoughts on that?
Regards
Your friendly HTC Titan Moderator
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Single core - My experiences with WP7 have gone back to the beginning and the single core has never been an issue. Even with loading all my email, text message, pics, games, and apps that i use. I'm one to reset my phone (and reformat my PC) just to keep it fresh but I haven't had to do that with the Focus from day 1. I can't say the same for my Captivate which, when I compare it to my Focus being both 1GHz processors, had its slow moments and I've reset that a couple times. WP7 has been more responsive at the same single core speeds. To me this became a non-issue based on experience.
RAM - My experience here is the same as with the single core question. I must say, when they built WP7, they did an excellent job with how it handles memory it would seem. As a programmer and project manager myself, I've seen apps just explode over time (been doing this since the late 80's) because of memory requirements or space requirements. It seems that MS has done a good job keeping the overhead down.
No SD Slot - I agree with you 100% here. As someone who isn't into putting all their stuff on the web I also think an SD slot is called for in all of todays phones. Especially when you reach this stage of feature phone that is supposed to be your one-in-all device. Manage what you have and it will be ok but it might be tedious depending on how often you need to change things up.
Screen Resolution - After handling the Focus, the Titan, and the Vivid on AT&T, I would say that this should be a non-issue for most. I was pleasantly surprised at how well the Titan looked on the bigger screen. Side by side, there was no real difference. People might say there is (to a purist techy, yeah) but in using it, there really isn't.
TomTom - There are a couple big names that already have GPS apps for WP7. TomTom will follow shortly I'm sure. Garmin already has theirs as well as others. WP7 is finally getting traction in the real world and companies are starting to get that. I think it was a "wait and see" scenario from a business perspective for most companies but they're starting to realize the market really is bigger than they thought it was going to be.
Hope this helps...
-Cyber
Echo sentiments on memory and cores. I'll add that the best way to manage music is through playlist. I pick albums to sync via playlists on my Focus. Remove an album from the playlist, add a few more, whatever, makes it easier than manually syncing. I also set up auto playlists for recently added and recently favorited music.
GPS, I used the new flavor of Bing Maps and the direction assistance. Pick a destination, it picks the route. The screen goes into a split mode with the upper half a map auto rotating with current direction and the lower half with the next waypoint. Double tap the screen for audio assistance telling you distance, street name and direction. Once you execute the correct turn, the phone confirms you're on the right path with a ding. Just double tap the screen again for the next step spoken to you. Very easy to do while driving with a level of interaction that keeps you on course with out nagging. I loved it.
Single core:
and
512 MB of RAM:
My HD2 runs winmo 6.5 much better than my friend's captivate runs android. Winmo was much leaner and faster (though prone to locking up) and WP7 takes after that, but never locks up. Winmo also uses roughly 150-180MB leaving an excess of memory... my friend is anal retentive about ending processes on android and I don't remember exactly how much, but he always has significantly less memory available than me. WP7 also inherited this good trait. Honestly, the only drawback is I don't think you can play 1080p video with only 1Ghz, but with the wvga resolution that isn't something worth doing anyway.
No SD Slot:
Kind of annoying, but aside from media, my SD card is otherwise entirely filled with cabs and exes and apks... tools not yet available for use on the titan/wp7. The reason there is no SD expansion is because by locking down the file system size they were able to increase performance. If you invest in a larger data plan and the zune market / get the zune music pass, media storage isn't really a concern. You could even set up a home server and just stream your music, or set up playlists on youtube and get the metrotube app, which can load youtube playlists and it still plays the audio from videos while the phone is off (think: music from youtube).
Screen Resolution:
Since there is no HDMI out, resolution is a non issue. WVGA is fine, there is no stretching or pixelation, you'd never even know it was wvga from looking. This saves space as well, as you don't need to waste space with HD videos; if you properly convert all your videos, you save a lot of space and lose no quality.
Beloved TomTom: Garmin has an app, there are other apps, and there are apps to come. Bing works fine. I really don't see the difference between tomtom / garmin or other major brands: they both work fine and those who like one over the other are generally nit picking extremely irrelevant features, or had one bad experience with one and now unfairly judge it as nonfunctional.
WP7 is a new OS, and for a new OS it's doing very well. Android SUCKED when it first came out, but has grown quite well. WP7 will do the same, in both updates and through here, with the hacking / dev community. The base for WP7 is still windows CE, and technically it can support winmo 6 stuff, technically we can do everything we used to on our old winmo phones... when someone hacks that ability in
Here's hoping we can still dual boot with android in some years
original_ganjaman said:
Your friendly HTC Titan Moderator
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Am I misreading this, or is the moderator of the Titan forum not a Titan owner, not even a Windows Phone user?
Wow. That explains so much.
YES you should make the jump! Love my Titan...not sure Android will ever be as smooth and efficient as WP, no matter how much processor and RAM you throw at it.
This device’s brilliance isn’t limited to the hardware either. Windows Phone Mango is really, really good. Nearly nothing about Microsoft’s OS works anything like iOS, while still feeling very fresh and accessible. It’s exactly the opposite of the way that Android normally feels, which is an uglier and slower version of iOS.
Speed is one of the biggest pitfalls that befall Apple’s rival operating systems. Time after time, touch is proven the biggest reason that iOS feels better to use.
At first, people blamed it on specs, or types of touchscreen. But now that phones are all coming with dual-core processors saddled with blazing GPU’s powering mutitouch tech that is potentially just as good as what Apple is running, it’s a different story.
There is simply no excuse for any mobile device not to scroll, zoom and navigate smoothly any more. Period.
It’s crazy to me how many Android devices still fail this simple test, dramatically. The Lumia 800 is a different beast. With a 1.4GHz CPU, underpowered by most modern standards, the scrolling and zooming experience is absolutely flawless.
Menus scroll and flow with well-timed inertia, pinch-to-zoom is brilliant in the browser as well as in apps like Bing Maps. It really is a first class interaction experience that is matched only by the iPhone in terms of smoothness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From http://www.thenextweb.com/microsoft...device-that-would-make-me-give-up-the-iphone/
drokkon said:
Am I misreading this, or is the moderator of the Titan forum not a Titan owner, not even a Windows Phone user?
Wow. That explains so much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have not misread, i am not a Titan owner let alone a WP7 user. I have gone through a few OS's now, Theming and developing for them. As of yet i have not tried WP7 (but that might well change)
As of the second comment, it is not helpful. If there is anything i have done that you are not happy with, please feel free to point it out. I try my best to keep everything nice a tidy and keep everyone happy, the great users here in the Titan forum help me out, which i am most grateful for. I do put my time into this free of charge, Its all for the love of this great forum.
Anyway, i am here to moderate not to help with the device itself.
For most of thing i have seen, i think you should have bought the Sensation XL. It is Titan in Android, have almost everything you listed.
But personally, when i chose Windows Phone 7 for another 2 years, i have already kept the idea of no other mobile-based OS. Everyphone got its own optimized hardware for the OS it uses. I would prefer my Titan has the Metro UI instead of a custom build HTC Sense 3.0 .
original_ganjaman said:
You have not misread, i am not a Titan owner let alone a WP7 user. I have gone through a few OS's now, Theming and developing for them. As of yet i have not tried WP7 (but that might well change)
As of the second comment, it is not helpful. If there is anything i have done that you are not happy with, please feel free to point it out. I try my best to keep everything nice a tidy and keep everyone happy, the great users here in the Titan forum help me out, which i am most grateful for. I do put my time into this free of charge, Its all for the love of this great forum.
Anyway, i am here to moderate not to help with the device itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Give WP7 a try. It might surprise you. I enjoyed flashing ROMs, testing versions of Sense, battery life issues, glitches, incomplete features, app launching, instability, ...wait... no I didn't.
WP7 is the only OS on the market. The others are app launchers with afterthought to social networking and notifications. Metro UI is clean and efficient while still delivering plenty of info with out launching an app.
I used to moderate message boards back when I was an editor and reviewer for a tech site. It isn't easy, so much respect.
HalcYoN-Fuze said:
Give WP7 a try. It might surprise you. I enjoyed flashing ROMs, testing versions of Sense, battery life issues, glitches, incomplete features, app launching, instability, ...wait... no I didn't.
WP7 is the only OS on the market. The others are app launchers with afterthought to social networking and notifications. Metro UI is clean and efficient while still delivering plenty of info with out launching an app.
I used to moderate message boards back when I was an editor and reviewer for a tech site. It isn't easy, so much respect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am most tempted by WP7. Just waiting for my ideal phone. Thought it might be the titan, but the lack of a SD slot is a real issue for me. But i am sure the twelve gig you get is fine for a lot of users.
Thanks for the support. It is much appreciated.
Peace!
original_ganjaman said:
You have not misread, i am not a Titan owner let alone a WP7 user. I have gone through a few OS's now, Theming and developing for them. As of yet i have not tried WP7 (but that might well change)
As of the second comment, it is not helpful. If there is anything i have done that you are not happy with, please feel free to point it out. I try my best to keep everything nice a tidy and keep everyone happy, the great users here in the Titan forum help me out, which i am most grateful for. I do put my time into this free of charge, Its all for the love of this great forum.
Anyway, i am here to moderate not to help with the device itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're totally right. I didn't mean any offense - you're doing a bang-up job, and this Titan forum is great.
I confused this forum with the generic WP7 forums, in which EVERY thread devolves into a WP7 vs. Android debate. It's tiresome to the point of being entirely counter-productive.
As a moderator, do you think you could talk to the "powers that be" and request a few things?
First off, not all of the WP7 devices, 2nd gen specifically, have their own forums yet, even thought they've been on the market for a while now. Focus Flash and Focus S users are left to post in the 1st gen/original Focus forum. Here's a list of WP7 devices.
Also, the drop down at the top of every forum screen that says "Devices by OS or Manufacturer" only has Android and "Windows Mobile" listed as OSes. If you click on the latter, the Windows Phone devices appear at the very bottom of a tediously long list of old WinMo handsets. It would be more efficient (and more CORRECT) if the "Windows Phone" OS were split from the "Windows Mobile" OS.
Sorry to hijack your thread, and my apologies once again for my counterproductive comment. I don't have much experience with Android, but my thoughts on the Titan specifically may be found here.
I switched from HTC Desire to Titan yesterday. So far so good Everything looks and feels nice and fancy
original_ganjaman said:
I have created this thread after asking this question in a different thread. drupad2drupad suggested i create a thread and sticky it. I agree, thought it might be useful to others. Hope its helpful.
I used to always use Windows phones (back in the days of WM6.5), but the draw of android tempted me. Now i am considering a returning to the the land that is Microsoft. The titan looked like a really good bet for me, but i had the following concerns:
Single core: I know microsoft says there is no real need for dual core phones, but a friend of mine has got a sensation XE, and compared to my desire HD, it flies! Even though my desire is clocked at 1.8Ghz the sensation is running stock 1.5Ghz x2. Can WP7 be that different?
512 MB of RAM: This seems pityfull in todays phones, my old HD2 that! Does WP7 have better memory management than android?
No SD Slot: This is just plain criminal, i have a 32 Gig card and its almost full! Adding a slot could not add that much to the price/Bulk of the device.
Screen Resolution: That lovely big screen was a major attractant to me, But 480x800. 640x960 is becoming the norm with screens nearly a inch smaller in size.
Beloved TomTom: This is more of a general WP7 Gripe. I used TomTom with my old WM6.5 devices, it is hands down the best navigation software. I know android has no TomTom but this would get me back to windows handsets in a flash! I use sat nav for 3-4 hours a day at work, mostly in rural places. Nothing matches TomTom for accuracy or re-routing. Come on TomTom, sort it out!
Please don't take any of this as criticism over the phone. I was seriously tempted when the titan came along. Just me venting my thoughts.
Sorry if i hijacked the thread, just seemed like a good opportunity to ask.
So the big question is, to stay with android or run with WP7?
Have you or any other WP7 users got any thoughts on that?
Regards
Your friendly HTC Titan Moderator
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) and 2)
HTC Titan is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast !! ^_____^
I understand what you are saying. I had doubts too ...
1.5 Ghz and 512Mb of Ram grants on titan the faster smartphone I experienced so far.
3) Here you have a point. I would have appreciated an SD slot too. I didn't see any Windows Phone 7 with SD card so far. Could this be a way to fight piracy ? (to force people using zune to trasfer files? really dunno).
4) Trust me, the screen is amazing, you won't argue about resolution or anything else every time I turn up my Titan all that I think is "WoW!!"
5) There are several alternatives to Tom Tom. Some are free, some are not, some are 'hidden' ... I hear strange voices in the wind whispering " ... use nokia drive ... "
Microsoft of nowdays keeps on giving us high quality products ...
So : YES, buy a Titan over any Android and enjoy the experience
dragonide said:
1) and 2)
HTC Titan is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast !! ^_____^
I understand what you are saying. I had doubts too ...
1.5 Ghz and 512Mb of Ram grants on titan the faster smartphone I experienced so far.
3) Here you have a point. I would have appreciated an SD slot too. I didn't see any Windows Phone 7 with SD card so far. Could this be a way to fight piracy ? (to force people using zune to trasfer files? really dunno).
4) Trust me, the screen is amazing, you won't argue about resolution or anything else every time I turn up my Titan all that I think is "WoW!!"
5) There are several alternatives to Tom Tom. Some are free, some are not, some are 'hidden' ... I hear strange voices in the wind whispering " ... use nokia drive ... "
Microsoft of nowdays keeps on giving us high quality products ...
So : YES, buy a Titan over any Android and enjoy the experience
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used a Samsung focus. You could add a MicroSD to it. We were effectively able to upgrade both of our Samsung Focus' with a 32gb MicroSD card. The phones had 40gb of memory. Very nice. Be warned though, that when you try to remove the card and reset the phone, the MicroSD card is locked and cannot be used by anything else, EXCEPT your Windows phone. Yes, it locks the MicroSD card so that it cannot be read by any other device.
drokkon said:
You're totally right. I didn't mean any offense - you're doing a bang-up job, and this Titan forum is great.
I confused this forum with the generic WP7 forums, in which EVERY thread devolves into a WP7 vs. Android debate. It's tiresome to the point of being entirely counter-productive.
As a moderator, do you think you could talk to the "powers that be" and request a few things?
First off, not all of the WP7 devices, 2nd gen specifically, have their own forums yet, even thought they've been on the market for a while now. Focus Flash and Focus S users are left to post in the 1st gen/original Focus forum. Here's a list of WP7 devices.
Also, the drop down at the top of every forum screen that says "Devices by OS or Manufacturer" only has Android and "Windows Mobile" listed as OSes. If you click on the latter, the Windows Phone devices appear at the very bottom of a tediously long list of old WinMo handsets. It would be more efficient (and more CORRECT) if the "Windows Phone" OS were split from the "Windows Mobile" OS.
Sorry to hijack your thread, and my apologies once again for my counterproductive comment. I don't have much experience with Android, but my thoughts on the Titan specifically may be found here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Firstly apology accepted, no hard feelings and thanks for the positive feedback
On the first part of your question, i do agree with you the forums are not up when the phones are available. I have had many problems in other forums because of this (Focus S being one of them). But with the sheer number of devices that get released at one time, its hard to keep up and know which ones will be popular. There is a thread somewhere explaining it, but i cant remember where i read it now, sorry!
The second point is a difficult one, i do tend to agree with you. But what about the other builds of android? They could be thought of as different OS, So we get a Froyo, Gingerbread, Honeycomb, Ice Cream Sandwich (not counting the ones before that) So the OS list might get a little complicated. And before you shoot me down saying there not different OS's. Other Android users might totally disagree. Its all a balance of keeping everybody Happy. As i said i personally agree with you, but not so sure others would.
What i will do is post your comment in the MOD section. See what sort of comeback i get and let you know.
Thanks for your feedback and if you have any more questions/issues, please feel free to ask i will do my best to sort them.
Glad you are enjoying the HTC Titan Forum
PEACE!!
rvbarton said:
I used a Samsung focus. You could add a MicroSD to it. We were effectively able to upgrade both of our Samsung Focus' with a 32gb MicroSD card. The phones had 40gb of memory. Very nice. Be warned though, that when you try to remove the card and reset the phone, the MicroSD card is locked and cannot be used by anything else, EXCEPT your Windows phone. Yes, it locks the MicroSD card so that it cannot be read by any other device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did read about the locked SD card. Sounds like locking you down to zune is what microsoft wants. Not a massive issue, i would assume its still easy to use zune to transfer your music/video?
original_ganjaman said:
I did read about the locked SD card. Sounds like locking you down to zune is what microsoft wants. Not a massive issue, i would assume its still easy to use zune to transfer your music/video?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
transferring through zune is very easy and i love the interface, i wish it would be faster though...
there are solutions for unlocking the sd card. the most common one is to format it using a nokia symbian phone. there is also an app made by xbmod which unlocks the sd card but i don't know if it works on any device. i used it on my htc hd2 running yukixda & xbmod's "back to the future" wp7 rom.
however, unlocking the card won't give the ability to transfer usable files to the phone. the wp7 partition has a special format type which cannot be read (yet). unlocking the sd card is necessary if you want to:
- partition your sd card and use part of it as removable storage space. again, this was made possible by xbmod on the hd2.
or
- replace it with another one and transfer the wp7 partition to the new card. also, you will be able to delete the wp7 partition from the old card and format it to be usable again on another device.
Ok so I should be getting my Titan by the End of Next Week and am curious about the Navigation on the phone. With my Android phone all I have to do is cache some of the maps zones using google maps than I can turn off data completely and just have the GPS chip work it's magic. So I guess the question is does the built in maps do this on WP7 and is there a way to completely turn off Data and only have Wi-Fi running so I don't run into overages as I cannot afford a higher tiered plan than the 200mb one. If not I will most likely wind up selling the phone or returning it as I cannot have my Data running my bill through the roof.
try turn by turn nav. You can cache your route at home over WiFi before you set off