Related
Hey Evreyone,
Browsing through the other forums such as the development forum, you may have ran across the thread labeled "Introducing: The Mobile Underground".Basically this site takes all the hardware,issues,news,software,and roms updates and centralizes it on one site as blogs! If you're an Athena owner you probaly did'nt hear of it till now, especially if you only check Athena forums.The author mainly aimed it "towards newer and most used devices" and cross posted to those device forums.If us Athena owners can agree on one one thing, that our phone is the most powerful and feature packed device despite it being huge and over a year old we still come to realize its still the best around.Especially with the AP Team around bringing even more potential with their awesome roms.And the inclusion of another rom chef yes ughhh irus things can get interesting.
So with this all being said I emailed the author about adding in an Athena section and by my request they have!, and appointed me the editor for this section.I will try giving this a shot to make things easier for evreyone to provide cutting edge information to the unknowing masses! I do ask because I feel this is a team effort as well, that submit feedback and share ideas and information.Also for Rom Cooks to provide up to date information on their respective projects.If anyone is interested to help pm me so this way I can list contributers and rom chefs willing to provide these updates so evreyone will be aware what to expect.
My idea is before I post an article on the TMU, post it here first so it can be subjected to any additions,fixes,and updates by the community before it's finalized as an article.Feedback is appreciated.
Update: The TMU thread has been moved to xda-devs general and all cross posting in other device forums are closed.
P.s ltxda don't worry I wont post about ur fetish's ;p
The site:
www.TheMobileUnderground.com
Register/bookmark and take a look as theres information about other types of devices (Blackberry,Palm) and Windo s Mobile in general.Untill I post an Article , HTC Athena wont show up yet under the Windows Mobile Category.
Post1-This One
Post2-Contributers/Cooks
Post3-Articles/Updates
Contributers/Cooks
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Articles/Updates
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I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.
-McMex
Amen to that! could not agree with you more....
the problem is that flashing ROMs are too easy now, the tools are too useful, and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.
P1Tater said:
Here's the issue with XDA lately and it's not just this thread that it's happening. The problem is that everyone reports a bug but noone tries to assist in fixing it. Everyone expects the cook to be all-knowing and be able to fix himself. However, these people have lives as well. They have families and jobs and don't have 24 hours in a day to just sit here on the thread and wait for people to report bugs so they have something to do. So, everyone complains, cries and whines about their issues and never once says what apps they have installed, uninstalled, what regs they have changed or files they have added or deleted and then wonder why the chef doesn't have the issue and why he can't fix it. Then when the chef gets upset. Then, when they do get upset then the "Thank You's" come. Did it ever occur to anyone to thank the chef when the rom worked? No, when it works you don't post and when it doesn't work you post complaints. I wonder why the chef's get upset . Just think about it.
What should happen is if it works, thank the chef or contribute. Damn, even a Thank You goes a long way. If you are having issues, maybe just maybe, report the issue, what you have tried, whatt apps you have installed and what you have uninstalled. Ususally when a chef cooks a rom, they don't install apps to the rom because everything they use is cooked in. Believe it or not, some apps will absolutely kill a rom.
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This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
Agree
I agree with this partly although I'm not sure this is the right place to post it.
Its a free forum and in its nature you will nearly always get this type of thing.
Yes it does burn out alot of the chef's but they also have lives that take on different directions as time moves on and so they come and go.
The bug reporting with no solution must be really pissing our chefs off and it is not just for roms.. I'm seeing it with software enhancements too.
At its core this is still by far the best forum for our devices. I believe XDA has always developed the best ROMS & enhancements for our devices and often take them to places the original manufacturers would never have dreamed of.
I just don't know how something like this can be policed. Nearly all the guys post in their first post something about not asking dumb questions but yet they still get them.
The ones that really piss me off are something like "Just flashed and now blah won't work" with absolutely no details at all.
What I do is leave the 'dumb questions' to the other users of my ROM to answer.. I find the userbase to be generally savvy enough to answer its own questions
The ones that I feel the userbase will not be able to answer easily or in a timely fashion, I post an answer for
It's not that I wouldn't like to have the time to sit there and answer all the 'dumb questions', but my time is better spent doing other things.. and the users don't seem to mind helping each other generally, when it's within their knowledge..
Then again my ROM is a little more hands-on than others, so i've already eliminated a good amount of the 'newbies' by it not being quite so easy to flash
mcmexican said:
I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.
-McMex
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P1Tater said:
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.
Originally Posted by P1Tater
Here's the issue with XDA lately and it's not just this thread that it's happening. The problem is that everyone reports a bug but noone tries to assist in fixing it. Everyone expects the cook to be all-knowing and be able to fix himself. However, these people have lives as well. They have families and jobs and don't have 24 hours in a day to just sit here on the thread and wait for people to report bugs so they have something to do. So, everyone complains, cries and whines about their issues and never once says what apps they have installed, uninstalled, what regs they have changed or files they have added or deleted and then wonder why the chef doesn't have the issue and why he can't fix it. Then when the chef gets upset. Then, when they do get upset then the "Thank You's" come. Did it ever occur to anyone to thank the chef when the rom worked? No, when it works you don't post and when it doesn't work you post complaints. I wonder why the chef's get upset . Just think about it.
What should happen is if it works, thank the chef or contribute. Damn, even a Thank You goes a long way. If you are having issues, maybe just maybe, report the issue, what you have tried, whatt apps you have installed and what you have uninstalled. Ususally when a chef cooks a rom, they don't install apps to the rom because everything they use is cooked in. Believe it or not, some apps will absolutely kill a rom.
This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
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I absolutely agree. Both of these posts describe the reality of the situation. Back in the wizard days for the most part only people pushing the edge of technology bought the windows mobile PDA phones. The same appled to the hermes for the most part. When I moved to the tilt the tides began to turn. Prices of this type of phone began to be more reasonable based upon the technology. More and more companies bagan pushing mail. The internet became more of a requirement than a novelty. Less and less tech savy users began to purchase. These buyers soon learned winmo had a ton of flaws and came to xda. Some spent the time to learn and have become valuable members of the forum. Many did not. They pop in and want us to be the fix all for thier issues. One prime example is GSleon3. How many tilts did he unbrick for people carelessly flashing tilts. When the Fuze arrived the problem only grew. Ive seen more new members in the last 3 months than my entire time on xda. A few of the new members have really taken the time to learn and contribute. MANY have not. I get at least 15 posts a day in my thread asking questions that are answered multiple times in the thread. I get at least 30 posts per day that could easily be answered in at least 1 thread on xda if not dozens.
Most of the chefs in this forum are pushing the limits with cutting edge builds. Da_G has more or less led the way. It amazes me how many users think everything should work perfectly. With all the easy kitchens and premade OEMs so many people think making a good stable rom is easy.
I commend Da_G on pushing the cooking aspect. Hopefully more will realize its not as easy as they think. Ive been at this for years and I learn something new every day.
Over the past month I have grown more and more discouraged. If rom users would spend that extra few minutes to find a fix I could do so much more.
I do however want to thank all of those that have searched, that have, helped,that have answered questions and have done so much to make mine and other chefs roms better
While I do agree with all of what has been stated, and myself to be considered a "NOOB", I really think it comes down to the individual user. I may have asked a question or two (or 30) that may have been answered already before, but I personally try to search and I do try to find the answers myself when I can. I do try and figure the answers myself, but I just don't have the expertise to do so quite often. But myself, I try to make up for my lack of capabilities by way of PayPal to our grear chefs. Others don't truly understand the amount of work that goes into the cooking of ROMS, I am BARELY tapping into that now. I have been visiting XDA for quite some time now and have seen it grow. Unfortunately the user base has grown very large, and it is hard to manage the forums. With there being so many places to find information in this website, it takes time just to locate the information you need. Sadly, I don't see much change unless you start locking down the members capabilities to post, which would defeat the whole purpose of a community forum. As far as it is for the ROM Chefs, a suggestion for you would to not publicly post your ROMs (except in the case of the kitchens, don't do that, I'm addicted!) right away. Maybe put a password on them upon download and have some filtering system or something and maybe only release the password selectively or something. And have a guideline for posters, like your post must contain this: and if the post doesn't have that, then don't even bother responding. Let's face it, we techies with out the tech knowledge are at the mercy of the chefs!
Site is free but maybe some type of short ban on posting for spammer and those who bug chef after three strikes or so by senior member. A chef doesnt cook for just one person he cooks to what you may like. If you dont like a chef rom try another or just go back to dead stock rom bug your carrier. But my idea might be to much work.
Idea
Radimus said:
and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
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Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.
The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
The reason why there is so many nOObs posting is that the Raphael has had such a tremendous success at the carrier level. Almost all of the US carriers have picked up the Touch Pro. So it is very reasonable to surmize that the majority of new users are new to windows mobile and completely blown away by the amazing amount of tweaks available for it.
Maybe the best idea is create special forums designed for Senior Members only to comment in. They would be locked to all others to comment on, but visible for all to see. Then create another set of forums for general discussion. I see absolutely no reason a development forum should be open to all anyway. I often think if I read one more "Downloading now!" post I will scream! So again, I would lock just the development and hacking forums to approved members, or at least make all posts be moderated first before they are posted. That will keep the development threads clean.
I would then load up the non development discussion forums and threads with adwords and advertising and give that money back to the real developers. LEt the nOObs pay for development indirectly through advertising.
sammypwns said:
Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.
The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
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Is this post really necessary?
Anyway,
I agree with McMex about the types of post but part of the problem is the organization of the information. Idea for you, Subdivide the forum so that the Cooked ROMs could have their own POST that was a sticky and only limited to the Chef for editing (containing information about updates and revisions etc,...). Then maybe create another post for ISSUES ONLY with the Cooked ROM. And then one more for the nonsense that burdens the Chef or other users like me who try and shift through the countless meaningless post by the "can you fix..." crew. This might help keep the organization of the VALUABLE information contained in this forum.
I use XDA to help me stay up on the latest stuff so I can impress the boss and his co-horts into believing that I am a technical wiz (ha!).
Anyway, this is a bit disorganized and polluted but if you take the time to search, read, search some more and read some more you can find a lot of great help here. But it does need some organizing. Maybe if some people would use discretion in posting it might help cut down on the smog, if you know what I mean.
DSmithZ28, I think that we are on the same idea.
Many people here started out as noobs, used what they read, and then became developers. I'm trying to do just that. It would not be helpful to limit what I can see as I would not be able to learn the development process as easily. This wave just has to be ridden out and the community will pick up some more help along the way.
Just thought of this from systematic approach and put it in numbers (guessed at the numbers):
Forum pre-influx:
60% Experienced Members
30% Moderate
9% Noobs
1% Don't know where they are
Forum post-influx
45% Experienced Members
24% Moderate
30% Noobs
1% Still celebrating Obama's election
-What this means is that there aren't enough mid level people ATM to handle all of the tedious questions that the developers shouldn't have to answer. As more noob's gain knowledge, there should be a shift in the paradigm, this will even itself out and lead to another great period for XDA!
One thought, what if there were some type of Pledge or Credo thread that would echo the sentiments of this thread. Make it so the new member cannot post until they've responded "Read and Understood" to that thread.
Whatever happens, I pledge to help people find their answers, as it helps me learn along the way.
I know this probably sounds retarded, but back in the Kasier days, there was a couple of users (Scotchua, McMexican, Mfrazzz, taiser999, crispyj, HDStreetglide, JimmyMcGee, Daveshaw, & rzanolgy just to name a few) who floated around all of the rom threads and answered questions along with giving links and subtle prodding of the search function. Maybe if there were more users who did this, things wouldn't be the way they are today. But it will take more than just a couple of users. It will take the work of everyone. Also, we need more users helping edit the wiki's. These are just a couple of suggestions.
Never a truer word spoken, guys
Definitely agree that the culture's changed around here over the past few years.
I dallied a little with cooking a year ago. I was lucky - I had several people helping me by providing solutions to the problems I had (I'm looking at you McMex there, among others!). Back on the Kaiser, every chef helped each other and there was a hardcore group of users who knew what they were talking about and offered solutions. On the Raphael, we've got an excellent group of chefs co-operating, and there are a few of the hardcore, helpful users but I think they're getting lost in the huge amount of other users who seem to think this is an HTC support forum - they've spent money on their phones and think we owe them!
Have the users changed here, or is it just we've got so many more (unconstructive) users in here that they're being too diluted to see?
My time in the kitchen taught me I was out of my depth, and eternal respect for those people who deserve to be in there!
Maybe a read/search count of couple hundred before you can post in the dev forum? Just a thought. Seems like an easiest solution to implement for now.
@ overjjrk
Lol at the 1% celebrating Obama's election
And back on topic, I vote for a Question and Answers section for every device!
Agreed "at least 100%" to post one.
I started - as everybody did - as a NOOB and somehow I learned fairly good (*cough cough*) how to deal with these devices. I do also try to pick up threads now and then surfing the forum and trying to help (enough praise) but it trips me off BIG TIME that it seems meanwhile that NOOB's barely use the search, have no idea how google is spelled and give up after the first try or EVEN WORSE bump their own threads if the don't receive a quick answer. Good that I can keep my temper but sometimes I'd really like to answer "@@#$%%^&"....
I do like what pages like "blownfuze" or "fuzemobilty" provide for NOOBs because with that information stickies would take at least the first three pages of a subject.
Not sure if it can/will work out but fine tuning the Wiki (without breaking it) may help a bit since we all live from the contributions of each other.
An approach could be a Readme 1st section where either only mods or users willing to take this task, can contribute (guess mods will be overwhelmed since they too have a daytime job) and no replies are allowed.
One of the biggest issues and posts I do see recently is "setup the device to a certain provider". I'm not a cab or software guy but could one of these great people here perhaps come up with an idea to have a CAB which will simply set up the connection setting the that particular provider? There aren't more than 2 dozen major ones world wide so that could bring freedom to the chefs to deal with provider specific settings and keep concentrated on fine tuning a ROM still being open for the whole world.... just one of the ideas.
Let's see how this thread evolves.
how about i just start banning people that don't live in new york?
i think this is a good way to go about things.
Hi,
First of All Welcome to the greatest HTC Development portal panel. Enjoy your stay but please follow the rules while you are here:
1. Search before you post. There is no point in asking the same question if it has already been answered. This is not a support portal, rather it is a portal for developers where developers share their knowledge and experience to the benefit of themselves as well as the ever growing HTC community. So if same question is asked again and again, be prepared to get flamed.
2. Respect other members:- this is essential for a thriving community portal. Do NOT use bad or abusive langauage.
3. Do NOT post any warez / crack / pirated softwares. This is not a portal to share illegal software, it you post any or give link to any such site / file your post will be reported to the Mods and you will face immediate ban. If any of you find any such post, please click on the '!' icon on top left to report such post.
4. Give the developers/chefs/skinners a break, they are not here selling you a product or service, they are just sharing your creations with you and YES there may be bugs in it, you can request them for certain stuff, but please don't demand.
5. If you are posting something, that is not your own creation, please mention the original author or post a link to the original post.
6. Before flashing your Gene please go through the Tutorial Stickey by krazy_about_technology.
7. Do not create duplicate post, ask a question only once. There is no point asking the same question over and over again.
8. Mind Your Language. This is a public forum and not a private forum, so mind the language you are using.
9. Please do not reply to useless and unnecessary threads like - I bricked my Vox after running hspl.exe, if you are really ichy to reply, just post a link to the tutorial stickey.
10. Share the knowledge: Share your knowledge, new findings, new tweaks etc with the community. Please understand that if other members did not replied to your queries, you will not be in the position that you are today - knowledge wise atleast. A lot of users have been seen that after starting a thread has finally signed off by saying ok, I got it working. But let the users of the forum know how did you get it working.
11. Do not clutter the forum / threads. Post your replies in subsequent threads. Do not post replies in non relevant threads. Like discussing issues of krazy's or ankit's or lomlom's ROM in the Upgdate tutorial thread (unless you have bricked your device in the process of updating one of the ROMs). Or post query / information about one ROM in another ROM's thread. Keep the threads clean and RELEVANT.
12. COMPLETE YOUR PROFILE . Its a very basic courtesey to let people know basic details about yourself, nobody is going to track you down to your home. You are interacting with fellow members every so often, so atleast they should know from you are from, it may actually help you in solving your issues faster.
This is not a preaching or something, just a guideline so that we can keep our forum neat and clean; all the suggestions has been assimilated after viewing General forums. If you have an issue, please see my favourite post in my siggy (BTW not posted by me, but one of the mods)
Thanks for keeping the forum clean (Or get ready to be flamed),
Just saw another post about "Bricking", looks like pple love to get flamed! and if you do get flamed, it won't be worth reporting to mods, since it is not a support site .
A request to all experience users, if you see a noob or other user asking for a certain information already there in the forum, please DO NOT give him /her the information in that thread, simply give him / her a link, they need to read the forum properly. And this way we will have less and less useless threads.
Lets keep our forum neat and clean.
I go even a step further and don't respond to such guys That way, they either try to find their own way by reading or go away and relieve us from further headaches lol
krazy_about_technology said:
I go even a step further and don't respond to such guys That way, they either try to find their own way by reading or go away and relieve us from further headaches lol
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OMG! Another one!
But buddy you are a developer, so you are contributing a lot to the site (unlike me ). So.. I am just trying to help the admins in my small way .
Do not reply to useless threads
Please do not reply to useless and unnecessary threads like - I bricked my Vox after running hspl.exe, if you are really ichy to reply, just post a link to the tutorial stickey.
Thanks for keeping the forum clean.
it kinda makes me
hi
im sorry to say most of these guys who are posting threds are lazy guys and it kinda make wana say u no XYZ to these guys but then as this is a forum and cant uses unparliamentary words i cant say what i want to
u know when i can to this furum i had sent many many PMs to many pros here most of then never even replied or gave me very rude reply until i found this absolutely nice very very helpfull kind person(im not mentioning his name here cause i don't want others to bug him cause of me ) and i kinda bugged him and he helped well all people have to do is try but they want to take the easy way out
I humbly request the pros hers not to reply to such guys till they find out a ways to contact u
svrhari said:
hi
..... contact u
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Yeah, I know some Senior users are rude, or rather they become rude by replying same questions over and over again. But we need to keep our forum clean don't me.
BTW I know whom you are talking about. That person is amazing, nobody shares knowledge like he does (well except one other guy). Basically what I am trying to point out is if we keep on replying to these lazy pple on the thread they have created, they will take it for granted. Instead let them search and get a solution.
When I joined this forum (Gene, not Vox), the forum was nearly barren, I hope a lot of you will remember, there was not even a thread for tutorial, yet I found solutions about upgrading my gene by using the hspl from one post and the ROM from another post!
So my point is read Read READ!
@everyone:
if you think I am going over the top, read my favourite post in my siggy.
Completly agree with you Addicted2XDA Although i came to this forum to be a leecher like i did for many symbian forums when i was using that Nokia [email protected] (in my personal openion only), i found out that its actually not a Pirate Shop like many symbian forums where ppl just post software cracked by cracking groups, which i wont mention here but most of us must be knowing them already
XDA was different, people were mostly developers so there was an oppertunity to learn so much about the platform that i was waiting to get my hands on for last so many years. Moreover, No ROM which was only one at that time) on the forum was satisfying my need as i need Windows Live in my day to day use. So i decided to dive deeper and build a ROM for meself. AndHere came the Angel, Ramerson, with his fantabulous kitchen and a good heart too, to help people like me with their naive adventures in this wonderful world. And rest is history now
Also apart from my personal needs, i was feeling that the GENE community is somewhat not taken care of by anyone,reason for that maybe because in some countries its a very old phone. But for me, this phone is special, no matter in future i get a Touch Diamond 2 or whatever GENE got me into this WinMo bandwagon and i really have a place for it in my heart. Thats why i decided that no longer will people starve for good WM 6.1 Gene ROMs in this forum. May be i was destined to do it Anyways, now i am quiet happy that people have good choices.
And people like Ankit360 are even taking the efforts futher with WM 6.5. I will too work on it when it releases, but the things that Ankit is doing right now, are really worthy. He is a very nice guy too, and he was the person who was online for hours while i was patching my SPL. i was so scared to do it, has not he been online, i wouldn't have touched it. The method was also published by him originally. I just took it and made it a cosmetically better looking tut thread. I thought that Ankit was there when i needed it, but how many people can have that privilege? So, the Sticky to Unlocking and Flashing was born.
Its been about 4-5 months since i first came here, and the journey has been delightful. I am now diving into some application programming also with .NET and will try to design utilities for day to day problems. I am not having a permanent income source as of now, thats why i haven't donated to this forum, but whenever i'll get one, you'll see "stars" growing besides my name, if you know what i mean
That's what i like to say to everyone coming here. Take whatever you want and can from this forum, it has a big heart for everyone. But do take care to not mess it up and help in keeping it a great place for everyone to enjoy. Its not necessary that you should make ROMs or Software, but the kind of help that Addicted, Hari and many others do is also extremely valuable for the forum.
I hope somebody is listening to all this
i have put a thread yesterday
hi
by the way yesterday i have put a thread as a humble request i hope people read it and understand the implication of wasting a thread this is very short and not as much in detail as additcteds is but as i know their are many lazy guys here i thought they might have more patience to read my thread
and yes addict ur thread is very good and precise to the point
i hope they do and understand sorry to not mention the name of the person who helped me as i dont want the other lazy guys get his name and start bugging him of course most of the people who have posted here know who im speaking of and once again i say thanks a million to this great guy with a heart of gold
krazy_about_technology said:
Co..Touch Diamond 2
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Touch Pro is better
LOL but the design of TD2 suits me better. The round corners of TP2 really bug me. TD2 is a bit more man-ly, if you know what i mean But ya, the screen and stereo speakers of TP2 rock! And looking at the one speaker of GENE which sounds quiet fine, i think the stereo speakers will be quiet music friendly
plz do not write which rom u currently using in signature it's discouraging me bcoz nobody using my rom
just kidding
Ankit,
We definitely look forward to a new build ROM from you. Please see the OLD Gene (HT 7XX) users are not left out.
Ankit...do it fornew Gene
Come on Ankit we are waiting for ur window 6.5 for new gene....
U are genio!!!!!!!!!!!
krazy_about_technology said:
LOL but the design of TD2 suits me better. The round corners of TP2 really bug me. TD2 is a bit more man-ly, if you know what i mean But ya, the screen and stereo speakers of TP2 rock! And looking at the one speaker of GENE which sounds quiet fine, i think the stereo speakers will be quiet music friendly
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Actually I was talking about the full hardware keyboard of the TP2 (Yeah, i know i go insane when i see a physical qwerty keyboard ). Its really convenient for mailing, you should agree . In my personal opinion, the difference between a physical keyboard and an on screen keyboard is sort of like the difference between a TVSE Champ and a TVSE Gold .
And like you, Vox will always have a special place in my heart, since it was the first wm device for me.
Yeah, i do value the hardware keyboard, specially after i have experienced one of my friend's SE Xperia, works marvelously well, specially when i write programs in pocket c#, as well as messaging and email.
An important point added, No. 10.
This post is made to just push it up the list .
why dont we make this post a stickey
Addicted2xda said:
An important point added, No. 10.
This post is made to just push it up the list .
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why dont we make this post a stickey...so it stays on top always...just a suggestion...
htc3400 said:
why dont we make this post a stickey...so it stays on top always...just a suggestion...
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Already made the request, but its not upto us . Lets see what the mods think.
Closed as per OP request : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3460956&postcount=389
Ta
Dave
I'd like to commend everyone who is a part of the activities on this board. It's amazing how people from around the world combine, coordinate, and contribute to the success and fun that is XDA-Forums.
As a recent Android enthusiast (learning to use my Java skills to learn to code for Android)...I find that rooting, ROMS, etc. is really another great way to get much more out of my humble Droid Eris.
That being said, as a total noob (albeit one who's got just enough geek savvy to get himself into trouble), I find that as much as this forum is a wealth of knowledge and skills, but also a bit daunting, conflicting (at times), and disjointed. I've been reading, searching, and piecing together bits of data trying to figure things out, but one has to admit, it's a bit overwhelming...
I see that there is an XDA-Wiki section, but in my opinion it's a bit underwhelming. While I understand to create, edit, update, maintain, moderate, etc. even a small Wiki is no simple task, I believe that to add *more* authoritative content to the wiki would greatly help the new and seasoned enthusiasts alike.
To that I wonder if we as a community of Android, and in particular Droid Eris fans, couldn't quickly and effectively work together to make a Wiki which would provide:
1. A central location for all, authoritative, knowledge for various experience levels. No more trying to figure out which post is correct. Which instructions are better. No more asking the same questions over and over across threads and inadvertently pissing off someone. No more having to spend time answering the same questions.
2. Ability for those who know the stuff to pass it on without having to keep re-answering, re-posting, re-clarifying, re-editing, etc. their posts for the benefit of every noob (such as myself) who keeps asking over and over. I'm sure if we developed a detailed wiki in which folks can submit screen-shots, videos, scripted walk-thrus, etc. it would cut down on a lot of the ancillary *noise* which clutters up our forum.
3. Keep the forum as a place for people to discuss rather than just *learn*. The forum, while useful and FULL of great info, is a hard way to try and piece together fragments of info (sometimes conflicting via different posts/threads). The forum format is a great way to discuss but not an effective means to simply transfer/share/update knowledge. How cool would it be if I followed someone's instructions and posted my own notes to help improve them without having to have the original poster do the update? Or if I decide I love a particular ROM very much, I could post pics, how-to guides, etc. to add to the already great work. This allows the great ROM artists to keep focused on their work rather than mundane tasks like documentation. (As a noob I don't mind doing the mundane if it means I can actively contribute something back to these devs...that and I'm unemployed so unfortunately I can't donate to them just yet).
4. Generally speaking, I'm sure everyone here has turned to Wikipedia at one time or another and can appreciate it's usefulness...being able to click on a word and dig just a litter deeper to gain more understanding. Now imagine if we applied that to the efforts here on XDA? No more having to maintain long sticky threads, or worse having to keep telling overeager/overzealous noobs (like myself) to "do a search" or "read the sticky" or etc. In some cases not having to try and Google things like fastboot, HBOOT, adb, recovery, rooting vs stock, various flavors of ROMs, etc. Or worse having to try and put together info from different forums across the web (i.e. AndroidForums & XDA) and figure out who's *right*.
I apologize to anyone if they find my suggestion offensive, ineffective, and/or just plain useless. I guess as a nooby I'm just trying to give back in the only way I know how: I'm an organization geek (OCD according to my wife).
Cheers and keep up the great work!
+10, wonderful idea.
i like where this could go...
I believe you just saved the internet.
Let's get organized...XDA-Wiki
Glad to see some positive responses. I wasn't sure if my suggestion would be received with interest or disdain. All told, I was sort of jealous of those guys over at nookdevs[dot]com and how easy their wiki makes it for simpletons like myself.
So how does *work* get organized on XDA? I mean, I'd like to start figuring out who, why, what, where, when, how, etc we start building the XDA-Ark-O-Knowledge (aka Wiki)? Obviously there's XDA-Wiki already here; do we build off it, or do we start with a clean slate? Organization of data? Taxonomy? Moderators to ensure we don't bollocks each other up? Etc, etc.
Since I really am a noob to 99% of what's going on here at XDA, I think I'd be better at taking orders and doing tasks than telling the seasoned pros of XDA how to organize their efforts/info/data.
Cheers!
I am also interested and willing to help however I can...
removed posting
I can host as well - I can park a domain on my server or host from my current domain (k2vegas.com)
(there is nothing on that site, it's just what I use to host files, images, etc...)
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/
XDA has one, maybe I should of looked before lulz.
Further thoughts...
Some thoughts on how to proceed forward...
1. jcase, I think we should probably leverage the existing XDA-Wiki that you provided a link to. It's as good a place as any to start.
2. I'd suggest that we, for now, focus on doing the wiki work for Droid Eris in particular. We can use this as a way to figure out how best to capture, arrange, articulate, etc. the types of standardized data (how-tos, specs, ROMs, etc.) The XDA-Wiki for Droid Eris can be found here.
3. Here's some high-level topics. Please keep in mind that these are coming from a real noob, so I'm 100% sure it's not exhaustive nor 100% useful.
Overview - Basic high-level info on Droid Eris and the *recent* changes made to the wiki.
Device Specifications - I think this is covered here but we can add/remove as needed to keep it current.
How-To - Include detailed how-tos for rooting, unrooting, recovery, backup, etc. specific to Droid Eris. As a noob, I would love to see us build this section out with detailed instructions, pics, vidz, etc. to make it as simple for folks as it can be. I also see ECLIPS3's and Jamezelle's Eris Master App as a great tool which would fit into this section.
FAQ - There's already some FAQs for Droid Eris in the sticky on the first post...likely we can take this as is and add more details to it and refresh the data as needed.
ROMs - The ROMs info is spread out quite a bit across many threads/posts. I'd love to see some standardization of data, pics, ROM specific instructions, etc. put into this section. Ultimately I'd love for us to put together a matrix which allows for quick and easy comparison of the ROMs...this would help make ROM selection much simpler and avoid all those repetitive posts about "which ROM should I use?" "which ROM has X?"
Kitchen - ?? I hear this word tossed around and from what I can figure out it has something to do with those elite geeks who actually make those yummy ROMs we love!
Dictionary/Abbreviations - We throw around a lot of terms/abbreviations in this forum and it's hard sometimes to figure out the meanings/context. One place to look them up and get details would be great.
4. As for taking existing data/info from the various posts and copying them to the wiki...I would suggest we either get the "owner" (orig poster/author) of the content to participate and move it for us (and in the process update/clean/revise it as needed). OR as for their permission and copy it for them.
5. Who want's to do what? How is work organized on XDA so we don't step on each others' toes? Do we need an XDA administrator's permission before we start?
6. What else do we need? How else can we develop the Droid Eris Wiki and use it as a model (proof-of-concept) which we can present to XDA-Forums as w whole to adopt?
Thanks!
There's a wiki up at andirc(dot)net. Its in need of content though, so any/all contributions would be awesome!
Wiki
colinodell said:
There's a wiki up at andirc(dot)net. Its in need of content though, so any/all contributions would be awesome!
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Thanks for suggesting we update to the wiki you've provided a link to. However, I was more inclined to build off of the XDA Wiki instead. I've not heard from many folks in this thread as to a preference, so I was going to go ahead and build on the XDA Wiki (specifically the Droid Eris section).
I think if we can build out a nice wiki specific to Eris, it could be a proof-of-concept to entice others to join in (Eris as well as other devices) and make XDA the first and last stop for all Android rooting/modding/hacking/breaking/fixing/improving/ranting/hoping/*****ing/etc.
I think this is a great idea. I also am pretty new to this community but would love to contribute in any way that I can.
Would be pretty cool to have a theming section all about what images do what and where they are.
Started collecting bits...
JokerSP3 said:
I think this is a great idea. I also am pretty new to this community but would love to contribute in any way that I can.
Would be pretty cool to have a theming section all about what images do what and where they are.
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JokerSP3, glad to use all the help we can get. As a noob, I've been trying to build out the Eris wiki with little bits as I learn it. So if you'd like to help, just start adding info as you come across it to start filling in the blanks.
News from the Portal of XDA.
http://www.xda-developers.com/annou...addition-to-sharing-policy-on-xda-developers/
Posted August 22, 2012 at 6:00 pm by egzthunder1
We are going to deviate a bit from our regularly scheduled programming to let you know about an upcoming change in the rules in the XDA forums. As time has gone by, our site has grown by leaps and bounds from what it was a couple of years ago. With a membership base of over 4.5 million registered users and an average of 35-40 thousand people active at any given time, we need to ensure that this place can offer the best possible environment for all people, both experienced developers and people who come here looking to learn about mobile devices. Because of this reason, the rules of our site need to be amended from time to time to accommodate the needs and wants of such a large user base, but without losing our principles and forgetting what XDA was founded on in the first place.
Just a bit of background: XDA was a website founded by hackers and developers for hackers and developers. People coming here shared one common goal, which was to get more and more out of their expensive toys and they did so by reverse engineering, creating new code to expand the device’s capabilities, and doing things with hardware that most people cannot do (mainly due to lack of knowledge or technical ability). The site prospered to what it is today because these very same people knew that their collective ideas and efforts would yield more results if they collaborated by sharing what they knew with others. More often than not, this resulted in fantastic feats such as the original XDA online kitchen, the very first port of WM5 to the mythical HTC Blue Angel, and many more accomplishments that are stored in the depths of XDA’s forums.
XDA-Developers has always been a place for sharing knowledge. People spend countless hours on their projects and give back to the community in several different forms, either by releasing the complete work to the community, or by sharing its source and methods by which the work was conceived. The latter allows others to pick up the work and tweak it to improve it (think of the Linux kernel for this to make sense). XDA’s own foundation is much like that as well. However, often times, this concept of the sharing of knowledge gets confused with the concept of sharing everything. If you frequent our site, you will have undoubtedly come across a few threads were discussions about sharing are on going. Essentially, some people demand for work to be released or even think that they can take as they please without following rules already present on our site. Likewise, people sharing their work sometimes have rather bizarre ways of doing so, which has a bad tendency to develop in what we like to call “dev wars”.
We (administrators and moderators of this site) truly believe that intellectual property (IP) is a very important part of what is done on xda-developers. As such, we cannot and will not support any kind of action which forces a developer to share their work with others if the developer does not wish to do so. A developer of anything has rights over their work and as such he/she can choose to do with it as he/she pleases (give it away, share the source, burn it, give it to an orphanage, or eat it for breakfast). We support whatever decision is taken by its developer. Having said that, over the years people have found what can only be categorized as a loophole in our current sharing policy, and thus people are forced to do things in exchange for permissions to use certain pieces of work by others.
After a long deliberation with the entire moderator and administrator staff, we are implementing the following addition to our sharing rule (Rule 12) – revisions are in bold:
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
As an addition, developers have the right to hold exclusivity over their work for as long as it is deemed necessary by the dev or freely share it. However, if the work is claimed as exclusive, it must remain as such. No selective sharing will be allowed (ie allowing certain people to use it and not others). Should the dev decide to start sharing the work with others, the work automatically becomes fair game for all to use.
In regards to permissions, same rules remain for this but if permission was already given, unless there is a very valid reason, it cannot be revoked (same applies to major updates on the work). Under that same premise, permissions cannot be denied unless the work is exclusive or under severe circumstances.
In plain English: If you want to keep your work exclusive, go for it. However, if you are going to share your work, do it fairly.
These rules apply to all software posted on XDA (including but not limited to ROMs, RUUs, apps, games, kernels, themes, icons, etc) unless that software comes with a license that waives these rules.
The problem with the aforementioned permissions is that the rule never really stated anything regarding continuity or longevity of said permission. On top of that, selective sharing creates a massive problem on our site as it tends to give place to kanging (unauthorized copying and/or redistribution of work), fights between devs (so called “dev wars”), and tons of time wasted on investigations, which normally involves a large number of people from our staff. This needed to stop as it was reaching critical mass and high levels of anxiety were generated for no apparent reason on something that should be a hobby.
So, if you are a developer on this site and would like to keep your work as something exclusive, we encourage you to do it. If you would like to freely give it out so that others can use it and make it better, we encourage you to do it as well. However, we will no longer accept claims from anyone who picks and chooses who gets what. As stated in the rule, you either share or keep, but if you do share, do it fairly. Favoritism has created a great divide in our site and our community and it is only hurting development as a whole. People focus more on pointing fingers than they do on trying to create original work.
Permissions should still be sought as a matter of common courtesy, much like the original rule stipulated. However, unless a valid reason is provided, a simple “no, you cannot have it” will not suffice, especially if the work is being shared with others and permissions are denied out of spite.
Lets all work towards a new, rejuvenated XDA that is based on the core principles placed by the site’s founding fathers. Sharing of knowledge is what brought many of us together on this site and we should strive as a community to keep it that way. Please share your thoughts on this.
Thank you for reading.
Sincerely,
XDA-Developers Administration Team