I am planning to switch to Android after years of SE phones, though the X10 is an SE and full of specs it's way to big for my taste.
The Hero and Legend are the perfect size (I would preffer 3.5'' but it's ok) for pocket.
Now that the Hero's price is at last low here are some questions I am asking after reading some reviews:
-Is the camera still slow whatever the OS version or cooked ROM we use?
-Is it 100% sure that an official 2.1 OS will come ''to save'' the Hero?
-Is the Legend VGA 25fps capable for recording videos? and could we tweak the actual Hero camera driver to record that much?
-Will a 2.1 OS unleash the 256k colors of the Hero's screen or it will still be limited to 65k?
-I have read that the Hero screen is very readable under bright sunshine while the Legend is using LED technology would that mean worst or better?
-Could the Hero's battery last 3 days with: No 3g, 20 mins Wifi, no GPS,and some calls?
- I find the camera is much faster in the Modaco 3.1 ROM, and I think it will be faster in Eclair
- According to HTC, yes, the Hero is getting Eclair/2.1. As far as "saving" the phone, that's sorta subjective, and we won't truly know how much of a difference it makes until it's officially released for us.
- I don't know about the Legend's framerate. The Hero's camera driver is not open source, so it's unlikely that *we* could tweak it to record at a higher fps, however, that's not to say that HTC won't increase the framerate in the Eclair release.
- I'm not sure about colour depth. I'm inclined to think that it's a hardware thing and it will never change. I also fail to see a problem with the colour depth. It's a friggin' phone, I'm not doing any professional photo editing on it. But maybe that's just me.
- I've never used an LED phone, so I can't comment on the Legend's supposed viewability.
- Depending on what you mean by "some calls," absolutely it could last three days. I've gone 2 days with 3G on, and "some calls." Of course, the ROM you're using could affect the battery life too.
Is it true that the photo quality taken with its camera are as awefull as the nokia 5800?
I am not a ''camera phones fan'' but I want a good camera
Considering the Hero has no flash (which is, IMO, the phone's biggest flaw), the camera is pretty good. Yeah, you may have issues taking pictures in dark rooms because there's no flash, but the camera app allows you to adjust settings like colour balance and ISO, allowing you to make the best of bad lighting. Further, you can use a program like Photoshop Mobile or Picsay Pro/Free to increase the brightness or exposure to make the pictures look better.
I've never taken pics with a Nokia phone. The Hero takes worse pictures than my Canon Powershot A400... but that's a camera, not a phone. :/
I seen the Legend and the Hero and I would wait until the Legend comes out. Packing 2.1 sense, that great uni-body metal body, and a 5 mpx camera with flash and it also has better specs then the Hero.
I just saw the N1 review in gsm arena, one of the major concern for me was direct sunlight visibility of the Amoled screen...and it's a failure
I think the Legend shares the same amoled technology as Desire and N1, so this makes me wonder if I shouldn't take again an Hero.
It's screen is nice under sunlight right?
Also the Modaco 3.1 Rom does speed up shutter speed? I get blurry photos with my actual SE Aino because the shutter is slowed down...
The 2.1 update for Hero is coming this month right?
Related
which one has the bigger impact on image quality?
are android phones just naturally built with ****ty camera's or is it in their software that runs them?
don't get me wrong, some are ok... but overall I've always found iPhone has an easier time with pictures, I guess this singles in on X2 as well, the moment lighting becomes slightly unfavorable it is a giant blob
Wait til u see how android cameras have progressed by the end of the year(hardware)
The htc rezound supposedly has an amazing one. Others will follow suit with that. Bet on it.
it supposed to have very high quality pictures...uses new low light/bright light sensors and adjusts accordingly. And im sure there will be a way to manually control, if u wanted to , those settings to get it just right.
I gave the RAZR camera a quick test at the vzw store today and was also impressed. They also look better.on the RAZR screen because of the super amoled display ...
So I would say the hardware is moving forward and software can catch up to it for some nice quality pics. But either way for the best photos nothing will beat an actual camera(for now lol)
So I've been using my HTC One for a little over a month now. Tried many different ROMs, currently running the leaked 4.2.2 stock ROM.
I've noticed since day one the camera takes really fantastic close-up (3 feet or closer) and macro shots (few inches from subject). It also takes really great low light shots, again close up and macro. These shots in these situations rival my point and shoot Canon.
Once you go outside and take a "normal" shot in great daylight of a group of friends/family, scenery or a building ect. all hell breaks loose. We're talking like one of the worst camera images from a smartphone I've seen recently. Heck my Galaxy S2 and iPhone 3GS took much better looking "normal" shots from a distance.
Images become instantly washed out, details are completely lost, the picture is injected with a super dose of noise everywhere. What is up with this? Is there anyway software will be able to fix the camera in the future? Is it a hardware limitation?
I owned a Galaxy S4 for a few weeks and that phone took brilliant "normal and close up shots" but was severely lacking in low light where images would just be too dark or too blurry.
I'm really quite bummed because the HTC ONE with the new 4.2.2 update is nearly perfect, amazing battery life and performance, much smoother and faster than the POS Galaxy S4. I'm just really pissed that the Camera can't perform in normal situation with great lighting, I would think any Camera would excel in those condition over any other scenario. That and that stupid 5 minute time-out of the LED notification really holds back the HTC One from becoming the perfect smartphone for me.
I wouldn't go as far as saying the camera is atrocious in normal situations, however, the details might not be as good/clear as some other phones. I know the international version got a software update where it addressed many problems such as noise and exposure (issue with pics being washed out ect)... As for the noise issue i think if you go into the camera setting and make sharpness -1 or -2 it will help, at least it did for me. A big issue sometimes for me is that the auto focus is off so it makes the whole picture become what you described, but i guess its probably because i dont have the most steady hands when taking pics lol. I know tmobile pushed a software update a week and a half ago, but i dont think that it did anything to the camera. Apparently, some people say that when you first buy the phone it already comes with that update installed for the camera... but who the hell knows! Tmobile's, AT&T, and Sprints software versions are all different so its hard to tell
darkstarlotus said:
I wouldn't go as far as saying the camera is atrocious in normal situations, however, the details might not be as good/clear as some other phones. I know the international version got a software update where it addressed many problems such as noise and exposure (issue with pics being washed out ect)... As for the noise issue i think if you go into the camera setting and make sharpness -1 or -2 it will help, at least it did for me. A big issue sometimes for me is that the auto focus is off so it makes the whole picture become what you described, but i guess its probably because i dont have the most steady hands when taking pics lol. I know tmobile pushed a software update a week and a half ago, but i dont think that it did anything to the camera. Apparently, some people say that when you first buy the phone it already comes with that update installed for the camera... but who the hell knows! Tmobile's, AT&T, and Sprints software versions are all different so its hard to tell
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regarding "steady hands", i thought this phone has optical image stabilization? i've only taken a few pictures so far and agree that i'm not liking what i see. my previous htc one s takes much better looking picts on well-lit areas. then again my tmous one is still stuck on 1.27 software
So I was going to test my Smartwatch ZGPAX S5 vs an old Fuji Finepix 2650 (2MP) and decided to just test the Xperia Z as well and use the NEX-6 as the control image if you will.
Nothing scientific..just me wasting some time for a quick experiment!
The images have been named to identify the device and which APP was used to take the image as well.
This is under a normal room lightning condition as going into even lower light levels I do not expect miracles from any of them aside from the NEX.
I did a quicker test before taking a pic of a violin on a wall and on that test the Xperia really looked bad so I would have to do that again to confirm if that is the case. In fact, it looked so bad that I was expecting it to be one of the worst during this Cobra Commander test but it was not. I think the A Better Camera did the best job for the Xperia although closely followed by Camera Zoom.
Regards
PS Just in case, after you click on the small preview to open the new window, you can click on it again for the full size image if you want to compare all the detail.
I am not camera veteran / expert
Can you make conclusion to average user ?
Thanks
That's kind of an unfair test. The NEX (which I own and love) is a DSL class camera for semipros. The rest including the ZU (which I own and love too) is kiddie stuff in comparison. I mean, the Finepix is from 2003
dancress said:
That's kind of an unfair test. The NEX (which I own and love) is a DSL class camera for semipros. The rest including the ZU (which I own and love too) is kiddie stuff in comparison. I mean, the Finepix is from 2003
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hahah the NEX-6 was more of the Control image to see which one got closer to it
I would say if you want to improve the low light performance of the Ultra slightly from the horrible compression of the stock camera, either go with A Better Camera or ProCapture. Pro Capture has a noise reduction option which takes a couple of images and processes them, and there is something similar on A Better Camera as well.
Or get a NEX camera if you really are serious about your photos :victory:
i wasn't too serious either but getting a NEX is good advice anyway. best camera i ever had, including several large canons. you won't shoot a vogue cover with it but for everything else there's IMHO no better price-performance-ratio.
Oh yes, the NEX lineup is outstanding. I have seen some pros mixing their PRO camera pics with the NEX and you cant really tell which is which ...quite impressive!
BTW, I just tested a HTC Amaze with the 8MP camera which when it came out seem to have been received positively and dare I say the Ultra actually looks better!
Testing without the flash benefit of course which is sort of cheating I guess lol
UPDATE:
Just added the HTC Amaze also an 8MP camera.
Just a small update.
Added another pic with stock camera but ISO 50 and I will say, it looks pretty good to me. In fact, when its possible to use that type of ISO without blurring the image, I would go for the stock camera.
Thanks HTC for bring a bigger mp camera to a phone that's suppose to be the little brother of the m8.........
http://mobile.theverge.com/2014/5/...tes-the-companys-flagship-phone-in-a-trimmed
...because we're ALWAYS complaining about the MP on our camera when we just upload the photos to instagram and fb..
You can't say that for ALL users. A lot of people don't need a expensive camera to take pics. Especially if you want to use that pic past Facebook etc. All I'm saying is instead of adding a second camera. HTC could have added more to the m8 to help keep it from being the same camera with a second camera. End of the day 4mp camera is a 4mp camera
When I want to use my pics past loading onto social apps. I use my note 3. But if I want to use this pic to upload then yes either my m8 or note 3 will do the job just fine
Sent from my SM-N900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I'll agree that what smartphone camera is "better" depends on how you in particular use the camera. But just because a camera has more MP, does not make it "better" either. We'll have to wait and see if the camera on the One Mini 2 actually yields better quality images than the M8.
Unless you are blowing up or cropping photos a lot, 13 MP is too much and a joke for a camera phone. High MP smartphone cameras really struggle in low light. And unless you are taking pictures outdoors in broad daylight, its often low light.
I'll agree that HTC probably should not have opted for the dual camera on the M8. Kinda cool at times, but also pretty gimmicky. The money probably would have been better spent improving image quality on the single rear camera (even if not to increase the MP).
It's kinda a slap in the face to a certain degree. Here is the new m8 with the same camera with a secondary camera which is mostly gimmicky while nice at the same time. Then they decide to make the new HTC one mini from a 5 mp camera to a 13MP camera...........
Now will it have better pics? Probably not or probably so. For most people it don't matter, but after being in retail when trying to sell a customer the one the camera is its downside cause on PAPER the 4mp camera doesn't sound good at all compared to the other smartphones out in the market. People will buy the mini 2 because of it has higher mp count than the m8. While the m8 blows the mini in other specs that 13MP camera looks a lot better to somebody who doesn't care to have the latest and greatest specs.
While a higher mp count doesn't make a camera phone any better yes, but why bring the same thing to the table for your flagship but have a mid range phone with a better spec camera on paper WHEN it comes to mp count. .
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903tex said:
but after being in retail when trying to sell a customer the one the camera is its downside cause on PAPER the 4mp camera doesn't sound good at all compared to the other smartphones out in the market. People will buy the mini 2 because of it has higher mp count than the m8.
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Unfortunately, Average Joe is always going to fall for that marketing gimmick of chasing big numbers, without having any real understanding of what they mean. How many times have you seen someone with a fancy, big screen 1080p TV; and the owner just has a standard definition program on it; and not even in the right aspect ratio (so the picture is all stretched out to fill the screen). That kinda crap drives me crazy!
I for one applaud HTC for turning their nose up at the megapixel arms race. Its gotten absurd. I mean seriously, do we really need a smartphone with a 41 MP camera? Of course not (I understand its actually a really good camera, but not because its 41 MP).
903tex said:
While a higher mp count doesn't make a camera phone any better yes, but why bring the same thing to the table for your flagship but have a mid range phone with a better spec camera on paper WHEN it comes to mp count. .
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That is a really good point. Why push a certain marketing strategy (and one that particularly bucks the trend) for one device, then do nearly the exact opposite for another device.
In any case, I don't think that the Mini 2 will really compete directly with the M8. Price point alone, even the Average Joe Blow is going to know its a flagship versus a "budget" phone. Don't know about the One Mini in particular, but for the most part, any HTC phone aside from the "flagship" tends to sell in extremely low numbers. At least here in the US (don't know about other regions).
redpoint73 said:
Unfortunately, Average Joe is always going to fall for that marketing gimmick of chasing big numbers, without having any real understanding of what they mean. How many times have you seen someone with a fancy, big screen 1080p TV; and the owner just has a standard definition program on it; and not even in the right aspect ratio (so the picture is all stretched out to fill the screen). That kinda crap drives me crazy!
I for one applaud HTC for turning their nose up at the megapixel arms race. Its gotten absurd. I mean seriously, do we really need a smartphone with a 41 MP camera? Of course not (I understand its actually a really good camera, but not because its 41 MP).
That is a really good point. Why push a certain marketing strategy (and one that particularly bucks the trend) for one device, then do nearly the exact opposite for another device.
In any case, I don't think that the Mini 2 will really compete directly with the M8. Price point alone, even the Average Joe Blow is going to know its a flagship versus a "budget" phone. Don't know about the One Mini in particular, but for the most part, any HTC phone aside from the "flagship" tends to sell in extremely low numbers. At least here in the US (don't know about other regions).
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The same reason we need 4k Tv's and 2k screen on smartphones. To keep making them money lol! Exactly why say your not going to follow the trend but all your other phones are right in the trend? Lol but HTC could have tried a little harder for the m8 speaking of the camera of course. The phone is rock solid but don't have these commercials making fun of these mp trends and being different when your other devices join right in with today's trends.
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Some of my favorite shots have come from the camera on my M8. In terms of higher quality, I'm actually looking at the Sony G Lens, since it is supposed to take really nice shots, and is $200 at my local best buy.
Some people such as my self want a phone with camera and some prefer cameras that can be used as a phone.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
903tex said:
You can't say that for ALL users. A lot of people don't need a expensive camera to take pics. Especially if you want to use that pic past Facebook etc. All I'm saying is instead of adding a second camera. HTC could have added more to the m8 to help keep it from being the same camera with a second camera. End of the day 4mp camera is a 4mp camera
When I want to use my pics past loading onto social apps. I use my note 3. But if I want to use this pic to upload then yes either my m8 or note 3 will do the job just fine
Sent from my SM-N900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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If I want to use my pics for something worthwhile, I use my Canon EOS.. otherwise I use a crappy phone camera.
lets all cut the crap. the camera is nice on the M8 and i do agree. to a certain degree. mega pixels don't make the camera. but it sucks for details when blowing up pictures or zooming we dont need 20 mp. but i think we should have something alittle higher
daddioj said:
lets all cut the crap. the camera is nice on the M8 and i do agree. to a certain degree. mega pixels don't make the camera. but it sucks for details when blowing up pictures or zooming we dont need 20 mp. but i think we should have something alittle higher
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reviews for the one mini 2 have started surfacing. in ideal conditions it is resolving a lot more detail, by a huge margin. but anything other than ideal and the m8 takes it.
i think the 2.0 pixel size is great and all, but i think we couldve benefited a lot for 1.8 sized pixels and an extra megapixel. that configuration shouldn't lead to a large camera hump.
i'm happy with what i got either way, i do miss the old OIS from my old m7. but whatever, the m8 has proven to be a capable shooter. and my nx300 is always on stand by in case i need a real camera
Any advice on rooting the Mini 2. I receive it tomorrow from carphone warehouse (379sterling.) Has the original Mini gained from official CM11 support thus far?
Any insight on how to root my forthcoming mini 2 and gaining cwm and porting roms would be greatly appreciated.
Does anyone know what phone o could potentially port from for the Mini 2.
How difficult to root and install a custom cwm recovery?
Hello community!
I have just bought the new HTC One Mini 2, it is locked with EE network. It looks like I am unable to get the unlock code anywhere. Do you have any suggestion or advice?
Wrong board
what sucks is having a super light sensitive camera.. while living in Florida. It's always bright unless you paint your windows black.
So what if it has a camera with higher MPs. That doesn't make it a better phone than m8. Unless HTC comes up with a device having the same internals as the m8 but a better camera resolution, I don't see what is there to fuss about.
mindmajick said:
what sucks is having a super light sensitive camera.. while living in Florida. It's always bright unless you paint your windows black.
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I'm not so sure that having a more sensitive sensor (while better for low light situations) necessarily means that there will be too much light in bright situations. The camera controls the sensitivity (ISO based on the old "film speed" terminology) as well as the aperture (f-stop). It might be that the automatic exposure that the camera is trying to achieve (balance between ISO, aperture and shutter time) is too bright for your local conditions. In which case, you can manually lower the exposure by tapping the 3-top menu button in the camera app, tap EV and lower the exposure value.
redpoint73 said:
I'm not so sure that having a more sensitive sensor (while better for low light situations) necessarily means that there will be too much light in bright situations. The camera controls the sensitivity (ISO based on the old "film speed" terminology) as well as the aperture (f-stop). It might be that the automatic exposure that the camera is trying to achieve (balance between ISO, aperture and shutter time) is too bright for your local conditions. In which case, you can manually lower the exposure by tapping the 3-top menu button in the camera app, tap EV and lower the exposure value.
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I've messed with all the settings. I appreciate the feedback though...
Unfortunately, if i have any picture with a bright spot from the sun the whole picture gets washed out. Full indoor is fine and full outdoor is fine. But daytime pictures indoors with sun coming in the window- washed out. Granted- if i still lived in Philly (or most parts of the country) i doubt it would be an issue.
mindmajick said:
I've messed with all the settings. I appreciate the feedback though...
Unfortunately, if i have any picture with a bright spot from the sun the whole picture gets washed out. Full indoor is fine and full outdoor is fine. But daytime pictures indoors with sun coming in the window- washed out. Granted- if i still lived in Philly (or most parts of the country) i doubt it would be an issue.
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Any camera will have issues if there are areas in the frame which are very bright, or spotty lighting (mix of bright and darker spots). Or does it seem worse with the phone? Often forcing the focus to a different spot by tapping the screen helps a lot.
I have to admit I am blown away with the mate 10 pro , I can not get over how accurate and brilliant the AI is
I did think the note 8 was good but the 10 pro is bloody amazing
Has anyone else moved from phones which are deemed as the best what are your thoughts ??
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Sent from my BLA-L09 using XDA Premium HD app
I moved from an LG G4 that I updated to stock Nougat 7.0 (was never officially released outside Korea; it was a HUGE improvement over Android 6, especially in camera performance and battery lifetime). And I must say ... the Mate 10 Pro is better in most ways, but disappointing in one very important aspect.
Pro:
- way faster in every respect (although with the Nougat ROM the G4 was reasonable fast)
- AMAZING battery life (2 days of regular use for me, never afraid of leaving the house with 30% battery)
- blazingly fast fingerprint reader
- much, much brighter screen (great even in sunlight)
- way better voice quality and reception as a phone
Con:
- VERY bad camera algorithm (It is one-sided. Everything not made of straight lines and flat surfaces looks VERY unnatural and loses MANY details) both for still images and video
- surprisingly bulky in the pocket compared to the curved and tapered design of the G4
The camera is the biggest disappointment, because this is pretty much the most important feature for me on a new phone. The camera reviews somehow were very off this time and I plan to change phones way earlier than the 2-3 years I usually have as a cycle. (Here's hoping for the next LG or a real top of the line Nokia. Loved, loved, LOVED my Lumia 1020 and 1050 for their cameras).
My biggest gripe is, that the hardware is not bat at all. I can get out quite a lot from the DNG files. Dynamic range is great and the metering is rather accurate. BUT still the level of detail is lower than the older G4 could provide. I am very sure, that a G4 with a stronger ISP and more modern autofocus-tech would blow the Mate 10 out of the water in most respects with the images it could produce - and I mean both the out of camera jpegs and DNGs. The G4 images had an amazing level of detail and were very natural and appealing.
And don't get me started on the POOR video quality (washed out, low detail, zoom that goes in steps, mediocre audio, ...), that cannot even begin to hold a candle against the G4. It looks and feels like a lower midrange phone camera! It is embarrassing.
One saving grace for the Mate 10 camera story is the black and white mode. Even in lower light scenes it is amazing. Truly. GREAT level of detail and great processing. Why on earth could they not go closer to the b/w processing with the colored pictures? It strikes a GREAT balance of noise reduction and sharpening. And the atmosphere of those b/w images is something of its own. One shot I took on my commute on the train looks like it belongs into an artsy article about the trials of life in a top of the line magazine. And it was just a random shot with no setup (I was still testing out the camera). Really, try the b/w mode for atmospheric pictures.
But all in all, the camera performance is my least favorite in a long time. I rank all my recent predecessor phones (G4, Lumia 1050, Lumia 1020) higher for their time with the G4 (on stock Android 7) even being better overall compared directly to the Mate 10.
In all other aspects the Mate 10 kills it and is amazing. Too bad the camera is this important for me. Lets hope for a BIG camera software update soon ...
I haven't tried the video yet I'll have a play around - I have done some black and white pics and yeh your right it's wow one gripe with the note 8 was there wasn't a black and white mode
From what I've seen the camera copes well in the dark but I am going to explore it more this weekend and get out and do some architecture and will see if I can see what you mean
I have always been a iPhone users until last year with the note 8 it was a hard transition the problem with the iPhone is the cameras aren't that good they look fine until you zoom in
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ThoroSOE said:
I moved from an LG G4 that I updated to stock Nougat 7.0 (was never officially released outside Korea; it was a HUGE improvement over Android 6, especially in camera performance and battery lifetime). And I must say ... the Mate 10 Pro is better in most ways, but disappointing in one very important aspect.
Pro:
- way faster in every respect (although with the Nougat ROM the G4 was reasonable fast)
- AMAZING battery life (2 days of regular use for me, never afraid of leaving the house with 30% battery)
- blazingly fast fingerprint reader
- much, much brighter screen (great even in sunlight)
- way better voice quality and reception as a phone
Con:
- VERY bad camera algorithm (It is one-sided. Everything not made of straight lines and flat surfaces looks VERY unnatural and loses MANY details) both for still images and video
- surprisingly bulky in the pocket compared to the curved and tapered design of the G4
The camera is the biggest disappointment, because this is pretty much the most important feature for me on a new phone. The camera reviews somehow were very off this time and I plan to change phones way earlier than the 2-3 years I usually have as a cycle. (Here's hoping for the next LG or a real top of the line Nokia. Loved, loved, LOVED my Lumia 1020 and 1050 for their cameras).
My biggest gripe is, that the hardware is not bat at all. I can get out quite a lot from the DNG files. Dynamic range is great and the metering is rather accurate. BUT still the level of detail is lower than the older G4 could provide. I am very sure, that a G4 with a stronger ISP and more modern autofocus-tech would blow the Mate 10 out of the water in most respects with the images it could produce - and I mean both the out of camera jpegs and DNGs. The G4 images had an amazing level of detail and were very natural and appealing.
And don't get me started on the POOR video quality (washed out, low detail, zoom that goes in steps, mediocre audio, ...), that cannot even begin to hold a candle against the G4. It looks and feels like a lower midrange phone camera! It is embarrassing.
One saving grace for the Mate 10 camera story is the black and white mode. Even in lower light scenes it is amazing. Truly. GREAT level of detail and great processing. Why on earth could they not go closer to the b/w processing with the colored pictures? It strikes a GREAT balance of noise reduction and sharpening. And the atmosphere of those b/w images is something of its own. One shot I took on my commute on the train looks like it belongs into an artsy article about the trials of life in a top of the line magazine. And it was just a random shot with no setup (I was still testing out the camera). Really, try the b/w mode for atmospheric pictures.
But all in all, the camera performance is my least favorite in a long time. I rank all my recent predecessor phones (G4, Lumia 1050, Lumia 1020) higher for their time with the G4 (on stock Android 7) even being better overall compared directly to the Mate 10.
In all other aspects the Mate 10 kills it and is amazing. Too bad the camera is this important for me. Lets hope for a BIG camera software update soon ...
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Click to collapse
Which firmware you are?
Firmware ist most current: 137
And I really tried much with this camera. I am really into this stuff and went a long way to get it up to better performance. I still am disappointed.
Comparing mate 9 with mate 10 both on Oreo/latest firmware.
Under low light the mate 10 is superior but that's all, under normal conditions the mate 9 provides the same if not better pictures than the mate 10 with its super duper AI which in my opinion misses the ball sometimes completely.