Google Now gave me a rather interesting message: For better location, please enable Wifi. This works even when not connected to a network.
How can the phone figure out my location by using the Wifi antenna without connecting to any networks?
Here's how I originally thought it worked: The phone sees what cell towers are available, then uses data or Wifi to look them up in a database and determines a likely location. But now the app is telling me it really just wants the wifi antenna on. Why?
Because its like when you turn on your Bluetooth it scans near by devices..you connect with them or not its not the question but you can know that how many devices are in your range got it..
Same like when you turn on wifi it searches near by connection you connect or not Google find out your near by wifi networks.. By using that nearby wifi network already registered they find you approximately locations..
we all should be polite enough to press thanks for anyone who helped US.
Oh. Then Google records the location of Wifi networks, so visible networks can be used for location lookups?
Actually, that makes sense. I remember a couple years ago they got in trouble for wardriving and said it was unintentional. It could have been related to an effort to record the location of all visible networks.
That makes sense, but I'm running JellyTime on an Inspire, and it doesn't have the biggest battery. I don't want to leave wifi on all the time. Would it make sense to use Tasker to turn wifi on for a few minutes every hour, or would Google Now even be able to gather enough location info in such a short time?
Longstreet said:
That makes sense, but I'm running JellyTime on an Inspire, and it doesn't have the biggest battery. I don't want to leave wifi on all the time. Would it make sense to use Tasker to turn wifi on for a few minutes every hour, or would Google Now even be able to gather enough location info in such a short time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not test it without Wifi? Leave google maps open with Wifi/GPS disabled while you're traveling. If that looks reasonably accurate, just leave them off.
As for timing, the phone can tell your location pretty quickly, but I don't know how Google Now is written. It would probably need to have specific logic that says "check location whenever wifi gets enabled". I'm not sure whether it does.
fenstre said:
Why not test it without Wifi? Leave google maps open with Wifi/GPS disabled while you're traveling. If that looks reasonably accurate, just leave them off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I've been doing. It works so far, I was just wondering if there was a better way.
It just doesn't seem to do much beyond weather and sports. Maybe I haven't used it long enough. Or maybe my life is so freaking boring it doesn't have a lot to work with!:laugh:
As for timing, the phone can tell your location pretty quickly, but I don't know how Google Now is written. It would probably need to have specific logic that says "check location whenever wifi gets enabled". I'm not sure whether it does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm wondering. There's a lot of info out there on what it does and how it does it. But I'd be interested in the nuts and bolts, finding out exactly what it's doing and when and how.
It is kinda neat. But kinda unsettling too.
Hello!
I did try searching the forums on this site and others but haven't found others discussing the exact same problem so here goes.
On my Galaxy S2, if I open Google Maps, my location shows my location incorrectly. I can understand without GPS it won't be exact, but I'm seeing my location as being at least a few blocks away no matter where I am. Same thing if I'm connected to Wifi, should that help or not? I used to own an old Windows Mobile 6.1 phone and before I would turn the GPS on, Google Maps would be off by a few feet, maybe a block or so. I was with Bell (CDMA) and I'm still with Bell (GSM).
"Why don't you just enable GPS and forget about it", you'll say. My problem is that I need more accurrate locations without GPS. I use a Cerberus which will allow me to connect remotely to the phone to get it's location if it's lost or stolen. If the phone is on, no problem, Cerberus will enable GPS in the background and I'll get the location accurately.
If the phone battery has died (which won't take long with the S2), I need to use the "Location History" to find the last known location (which won't have been retreived using GPS since I don't keep it on all day long).
1. Does anyone else have a problem retrieving semi-accurate location without GPS?
2. Why would I have accurate(ish) location with my old Windows phone and not with my Galaxy?
Thanks in advance!
Ala
Samsung Galaxy S2 i9100M
Hey,
so I've got this weird problem where Android apparently ignores the location of my wifi. But let me explain:
Whenever I'm at home google now suggests that my current location is not where I currently am but rather 10 to 15 miles away from my home address.
That is kind of annoying because I get wrong weather updates, location based reminders will not work on my home address and my location history is a complete mess.
Android primarily uses these three methods for checking on your location:
- gps
- cell towers
- wifi
am I right?
So I did some tests:
1. Testing gps
In location settings I checked "Device only" (so that it would only use gps for determining my location) and opened maps
-> works flawlessly
2. Testing wifi
In location settings I checked "Battery saving" (only wifi and mobile networks). And activated airplane mode to ensure that it could not use mobile networks for location.
Reboot (any kind of "location cache" should then be wiped, I guess).
-> works flawlessly
3. Testing cell towers (mobile networks)
In location settings I checked "Battery saving" (only wifi and mobile networks) and then disabled wifi. In advanced wifi settings I unchecked "Scanning always available" (so that it could not scan for wifi networks even though I disabled wifi).
Reboot (any kind of "location cache" should then be wiped, I guess).
-> does not work flawlessly. It determines the wrong location (that google now always uses).
I live in a more rural part of the country so it makes perfect sense that mobile networks cannot determine my exact location, but why would Android ignore the wifi location (as we have seen, it knows where my wifi is located, otherwise it could not have shown me my correct location in test 2), when I'm signed in on the wifi network?
I tested this on two different devices (Moto X stock / HTC One S with CM 11).
Is there anything I could do?
*bumping
No one knows?
Could someone (who preferably lives on countryside, lol) try to reproduce this or tell me if this is how android is supposed to work (this wouldn't make any sense to me, though).
// This is the right board for this kind of question, isn't it? If not, feel free to move this thread :>
*bump
I still have no idea why this is happening.
If this is the wrong board please tell me or move the thread.
Have you ever had a GPS lock while being connected to the WLAN network? I would assume Google learns the MAC addresses and WLAN SSIDs and correlates them to your location ...
145
GarryKG said:
Have you ever had a GPS lock while being connected to the WLAN network? I would assume Google learns the MAC addresses and WLAN SSIDs and correlates them to your location ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. I'm using maps quite frequently (with gps enabled ofc).
But I am pretty sure google already knows the correct location of my wfi, since when I activate airplane mode and check "Battery saving" (only wifi and mobile networks are being used for location) in location settings, my correct location is determined. Since the airplane mode is activated it means that my phone can only use wifi for determining my location.
But as soon as I disable airplane mode my location is wrong again.
So I would conclude that, although google knows the correct location of my wifi, it just prioritizes mobile networks for some reason. Which is driving me insane.
*bümp
*bump
This is still bugging me. I mean I can't be the only one.
*bamp
The problem is still existent and is bugging me.
The forums look different now.
*bomp
I wish someone knew what causes this behavior.
*bemp
Even after all this time the problem still exists.
bömp
No answers
bämp.
So I guess there is no solution?
Anyway, I will keep bumping this thread but less frequent.
*bumping every once in a while.
I use LastPass for password management and Toopher for 2-factor authentication. Toopher queries my G3 for an allow when accessing my lastpass vault. One of the features in Toopher is for it to remember certain locations as "safe" and not need you to hit allow. It is my understanding it can use GPS or cell towers as the means to determine if you are in a particular area. On my Droid DNA, this locating or querying for an allow was very quick. On my G3, it took several seconds when I was running a KK based ROM, and it is taking even longer now with LP (I'm rooted and running SkyDragon). In my location settings, I have it set for battery saving (Networks only). I might try the high accuracy mode, but the networks only method worked fine on my DNA, so I'm puzzled why it shouldn't be enough with the G3 as well. Does anyone else use this combination and have any suggestions on how to improved the location performance?
I can't directly help but I use Llama with battery saving, using cell towers for location and it works fast and great for both home, work, and in general when I'm not at either under both KitKat and Lollipop.
The GPS usually locks on immediately for me too, but high accuracy or device only is required to get actual GPS lock.
I'm thinking you either need to change your location mode or change the program to use cell towers.
Hopefully you find your solution.
Sent from my VK810 4G
I uninstalled and reinstalled the Toopher app and that appears to have fixed the problem.
I haven't found the "one" best mock location fake gps app - but I found a few good ones that have ads.
But if I had to pick just one as the "best", I'd pick Lexa simply because it works without ads.
*Fake GPS Location* by LexaFree, no ads, requires gsf, rated 4.6, 456K reviews, 10M+ Downloads<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lexa.fakegps>
Note that these mock location apps are set inside the operating system, such that EVERY app gets their information from them, and that these mock location apps can randomly move along roadways by a given distance per a given time period, and they can start at the last location, and they can randomize the amount of movement per second, and they can spoof the altitude, and some can set a specific exact location by the keyboard instead of only graphically, etc. They can even send the location to another phone or get the location from another phone if you want that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But others (with ads) do a better job of random location following roadways with random movement time periods.
Others (with ads) can also shift the GPS location from one phone to another (either way) - but what use is that for you?
Also others (with ads) can spoof both the wi-fi provider & the GPS provider - but what use is that for you?
Which fake GPS mock location app do you feel is best and why?
GPS position falsification is currently not very effective when RIL is enabled on the phone. Apps can easily orient the phone in space based on the signal strength to the network operator's mast.
ze7zez said:
GPS position falsification is currently not very effective when RIL is enabled on the phone. Apps can easily orient the phone in space based on the signal strength to the network operator's mast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For privacy reasons... I have every setting for location accuracy turned off, and I also have every unused radio on the phone turned off (e.g., NFC, bluetooth, gps, wi-fi, etc.) and my phone's wi-fi does NOT reconnect (auto-connect is turned off) as my home AP SSID is hidden (for privacy, not for security!) and it has a "_nomap" appended to keep out of the well-behaved databases such as Google/Mozilla, but not Wigle/Netstumbler/Kismet,etc, which aren't well behaved, and I randomize the phone's Wi-Fi MAC upon every connection - which is a new feature of Android 12 in Developer options, etc., ....
... But I had to look up what RIL stands for, so I thank you for bringing up that unknown-to-me Radio Interface Layer detail...
RIL references:
https://wladimir-tm4pda.github.io/porting/telephony.html
https://source.android.com/devices/tech/connect/ril
Specifically
Radio Interface Layer: It is the bridge between Android phone framework services and the hardware. In other words, it is the protocol stack for Telephone. The RIL consist of two primary components.
RIL Daemon
Vendor RIL
RIL DaemonRILD will be initialized during the Android system start up. It will read the system property to find which library has to be used for Vendor RIL, provide the appropriate input for vendor RIL and finally calls RIL_Init function of Vendor RIL to map all the Vendor RIL functions to the upper layer. Each vendor RIL has RIL_Init function.Vendor RILIt is a library specific to each modem. In other words, we can call it as a driver to function the modem. The RIL daemon will call the RIL_Init function with the device location (eg: /dev/ttyS0). It will initiate the modem and returns theRIL_RadioFunctions structure contains the handles of radio functions
After skimming that RIL information, I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to tell me, but I guess you're saying that we can be geolocated when we make phone calls and even when we don't, in that the cell towers can be triangulated if the phone is in calling mode... which I understand full well.
But, in terms of privacy, how many apps that need to be fooled by their GPS location have access to that cell tower radio location information?
You understood correctly. A phone in call mode, as you wrote, can be easily located while moving.
The google map tricked out by "Fake GPS Location", does quite well while driving a car, as I recently verified in the field.
I don't analyze the app for route tracking.
ze7zez said:
You understood correctly. A phone in call mode, as you wrote, can be easily located while moving.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you that any phone, if it's going to be used for two (or three) things, will be easily tracked by those with the resources to do so
Make/receive phone calls
Send/receive sms/mms texts (mms requiring data)
Wi-Fi connections (aka "the Internet")
However, in all cases above, the geolocation isn't as accurate as with GPS (if you are judicious about your location settings), and, more to the point, the applications themselves don't have access to the cell tower information (although they do have access to your IP address, which can be roughly geolocated).
We have to assess our threat level where I'm not using fake location apps to hide from a well-funded TLA adversary; I'm using the fake location to simply hide from the likes of Google and other nefarious outfits that put the tracking APIs inside the code (which is why almost none of my apps require GSF).
ze7zez said:
The google map tricked out by "Fake GPS Location", does quite well while driving a car, as I recently verified in the field.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If what you're saying is that the mock location apps "fool" the likes of Google Maps, I fully agree with you. If... If... if...
If you don't allow Google Maps to run a more detailed analysis that is.
As an example, I recently ran a test inside of a local town where I had the fake location set to miles away, and Google Maps was telling me I was where the fake location said I was... but...
But... then Google Maps asked me to snap a photo so that it could better figure out where I was, and BINGO! It figured out where I was based on the video that I allowed (for test purposes) to show the storefronts.
When I tested it again without allowing the video to see anything of value (e.g., I panned to the mountains above), Google Maps could NOT geolocate me.
Likewise when you don't let Google Maps geolocate by WI-Fi address (although for all I know the camera mechanism sneakily allowed that as I'm well aware there are TWO APIs for turning on your GPS radio, one of which (from Google) is downright nefarious)...
ACTION: "android.lintent.action.MAIN"
PACKAGE: "com.google.android.gms"
CLASS: "com.google.android.gms.location.settings.LocationAccuracyActivity"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
vs
Notice it's similar but different from the Android setting for accuracy.
ACTION: "android.intent.action.MAIN"
PACKAGE: "com.android.settings"
CLASS: "com.android.settings.Settings$ScanningSettingsActivity"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Notice that, for this very reason, you NEVER want to turn on your GPS radio from ANY Google app prompt!
ze7zez said:
I don't analyze the app for route tracking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you need to navigate and if you don't want to be tracked by Google, I found a little trick that works kind of nicely with the simple interfaces of the offline mapping programs.
Set your position as your destination in the mock location app
Use any offline map to set your current position as a waypoint
Then use the offline map app to route to your destination
Another "trick" that keeps you out of Google maps' databases is that you can easily get traffic using a web shortcut of the area you are currently traveling in - where you don't need to know your exact location in order to check out the traffic in front of you.
Yet another trick for traffic is that PLENTY of web sites provide Google traffic updates without logging into Google web servers (afaik), such as sigalert apps, 511 apps, and many local DOT apps such as caltrans (for California).
Overall, in summary, the mock location apps work to prevent apps that use your GPS location from tracking you - but as @ze7zez warned, it will only work for GPS and not for cell tower tracking.
GalaxyA325G said:
(...) the applications themselves don't have access to the cell tower information (...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not true.
Go into your phone's service mode and see for yourself what the phone knows about the mast connection.
Here's a cheesy Cell Diagnostic app that I wrote myself:
Note that the only permissions that it uses is android.permission.READ_PHONE_STATE and android.permission.ACCESS_COARSE_LOCATION
It refuses to give you this information if you have "Location" turned off.
ze7zez said:
This is not true.
Go into your phone's service mode and see for yourself what the phone knows about the mast connection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As always, you're correct... but.... you're being too narrow I think... in that debugging apps which we use when we need to are different from the run-of-the-mill apps we use all day every day...
There are only "some" apps, which I'm well aware of, that have your telephony information, such as this one which requires you to provide that permission first...
Once you manually provide that permission, yes, of course, the app has you dead in its sights... but most apps (that don't need it) don't ask for THAT much permission... (nor would you let them if they did).
Renate said:
Here's a cheesy Cell Diagnostic app that I wrote myself:
Note that the only permissions that it uses is android.permission.READ_PHONE_STATE and android.permission.ACCESS_COARSE_LOCATION
It refuses to give you this information if you have "Location" turned off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You bring up a good point that a few Android releases ago Google cheated like hell by forcing apps to request "Location" being turned on in order for the app to display unrelated things such as "Wi-Fi signal strength"...
Which is ANOTHER good reason for being able to set the mock location... because the Wi-Fi Signal Strength of all nearby access points has nothing (per se) to do with your current GPS location.
EDIT: BTW, as a related aside, I post a billion screenshots to the Internet, where some of them contain GPS location - which - if spoofed - means I don't need to redact it in those screenshots. For other information though, such as the cell tower information, I never know how much to redact (for privacy) where you didn't redact anything on your screenshot.
Can you let me know which are the cellular tower information pointers that we should redact for privacy when posting screenshots?
https://forum.xda-developers.com/attachments/cell1-png.5676683/
The CDMA system has a place for actual Lat/Long. But, these cells are set up by various people and the amount of information in them is variable.
I've rarely seen lat/long on a CDMA signal
The LTE stuff only references cell number. You need a database to reference it to location.
I have a few cell numbers hard-coded to named location.
I can't even find my current tower on https://www.opencellid.org/
Renate said:
The CDMA system has a place for actual Lat/Long. But, these cells are set up by various people and the amount of information in them is variable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm aware there are open signal public OSM cell-tower-location databases (which essentially suck - but which are good enough to track your general location) and then there are the "real" databases (which the carriers and the FCC kind of sort of keep to themselves.
Renate said:
I've rarely seen lat/long on a CDMA signal
The LTE stuff only references cell number. You need a database to reference it to location.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason open signal public OSM databases only "essentially" suck is because they're averages from lots of people, so, for example, a tower might be on the wrong side of the railroad tracks or in the middle of a river on those open signal public OSM maps when it's not really the case - but they're still good enough to geolocate you to a general area were I to publish the unique number in the screenshots.
Renate said:
I have a few cell numbers hard-coded to named location.
I can't even find my current tower on https://www.opencellid.org/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My tower is almost always my own femtocell or my cellular repeater (both of which I have but usually the femtocell wins out), which is unique to me (which is why I'm worried about privacy).
Unless you're in my driveway, only I would be using that femtocell (I don't know how far out they go, but it's not more than a few hundred feet at the most, isn't it?).
Hi, I'm a new member of the forum and this is my first post.
I've read this thread and it's an interesting discussion about layers in global positioning. But I have a simpler question out of curiosity;
is there perhaps a way to work around this plugin (https://github.com/wongpiwat/trust-location) without root / only with developer option, since I haven't found any fake gps app that could fool/bypass this part.
Or do I have to use a custom ROM to accomplish it?