Related
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EDIT: As Michy has asked for graphics requests, he apparently already has something in mind for his 5.2 / 6.0. Yea! So be sure to post with any requests as to what you want the next ROM to look like.
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You have to hand it to Michy. 4.1 and 5.1 are both fast, smooth, and (almost completely) trouble-free ROMs with tons of useful programs. And for both SPLs!
To tell the truth, until I flashed 4.1, I had regretted HardSPLing my device. Most of the ROMs I tried up until then were troublesome and just as slow as my stock WM6.0.
So in a way, this post is thanks to Michy. Gran bel lavoro Michy!
In another way, it is a request for something new. I know I am not the only one on this forum that gets nervous if he hasn't flashed a new ROM this month... I'm feeling the itch! I need my fix!
Anyway, thought it might be interesting to see what kind of ROM people wanted. Give your vote and comments please.
hi,
please just add your graphic-style request, so i can have an idea for a 5.2/6.0.
bye
Michael,
Good to see you are considering a new rom. In truth your 5.1 seems flawless and it's hard to imagine how much better you can make it. Thanks for your great work.
One suggestion I would give to make your next ROM easier to understand is: if you are going to include lots of apps like you usually do, it might be a good idea to put them in folders in the start menu according to their usage.
A Multimedia folder could contain YouTube Player, TCPMP, MP3Trimmer, Camera, Audio Manager, and Album links.
VoipCall, Slick, Messenger, Fring, Flash SMS, Call Firewall and others could be grouped in a Communications folder.
And some things like FTouchFlo, GSen CFG, GSen, GSenToggle, IContactConfig, PDM, PocketScreen, PIM Backup, PsShutXP, QuickGPS, RegEditor, SIM Manager, SynchroTime etc, etc, could easily be put in the Tools folder you usually include.
By doing this, you allow the person using the ROM to have easier access to the programs that they install. Because people are more likely to frequently use the programs that they install, rather than ones that come pre-installed.
Another suggestion is about the applications you include with your ROMs. I think I understand your logic in including lots of apps: the space is there in the ROM, so you might as well use it as long as the apps don't degrade performance. That's strong logic, and I agree with it. My suggestion is to only include apps that have reached a developmental dead-end; i.e. apps that are stable, and are no longer currently being developed. For example TCPMP, VNCViewer, and DotFred's Task Manager aren't updated very frequently - they make perfect additions to your ROM. Other apps, like YouTube, Manila 2D/3D, S2U2, ThrottleLauncher etc, are still in active development and can/should be updated from time to time. It is possible to update and install over the apps in the ROM, but then you have just wasted that space in the ROM.
As far as graphics are concerned, I am of two minds.
1) I have always really liked the touch/kaiser grey-on-white-with-blue-highlights. Very professional.
2) However, recently I have flashed my Hermes with PDACorner's Pro V.25 and I really appreciate the usefulness of the colors he uses in his status bar. Colors like that would really be useful against the flat black bars of the DiamondVGA.tsk you always include... They take a little getting used to, but make it really easy to know what is going on with your phone with simply a glance.
And this is a light and robust little Comm Manager that looks great with the skin in post eight.
And as always, thanks for your consideration. I wish I had the time, patience and talent to build such ROMs.
Not much more to add from my side, thanks larsuck!
- Make it as fast as possible without losing 5.1 stability
- Ahm...make both startup gifs like the ones from AP4.0, just with your name (I know, plagiate, but it looks great)
- Real-VGA, all programs/thumbnails should work and look according to chosen dpi, especially with 128dpi (seems to be the best choice)
- Remove time&date permanently from taskbar, so that all buttons can be seen and clicked without problems
- In short: please make it look like the original x7510 screen
Program wishes: maybe some program for real contacts import/export with edit-function on PC, I'm currently using xmlcontactsbackup but perhaps there are better choices.
Many thanks
just to renew my ROMs, i'm going to make a 5.1 Last Build Edition, with the last build i found on xda (20921). If this build will work well.......you'll have a new rom to falsh
There we go again weare just a bunch of rom addicts,lol, so far I been playing wit 5.1 is nice and respond qick only problems found so far is the bluetooth stack, (if the new build has something as AP4 Ill be in heaven) and Slic if I try to use it will give a BSD with a message saying fatal system exception or something, that was funny because it was the first time I have seen a BSD in WM, no a biggie for my I just do not use the app .
The programs included are useful but I rather get rid of duplicates e.g if you think icontact is better than stock contact manager get rid of the stock one( Im not complaining on that ,you have done a good job there so far).
the graphics just keep them consistent across the rom e.g not a black today a green communications and a white phone screen.
And if touchflow 3D was included working reliably that would be a plus.
Larsuck mention below to add mature apps only to the rom, I do not agree, why, because we will flash to newer roms during the development of the app so if a rom has the latest opera and a newer one appear we will have a newer rom sooner with the newer opera or whatever anyway, and because when a app reach its end of development time usually means that there are newer apps better and so its no point to keep developing the oldest ones ( not always the case) so as long the apps in the rom are solid stable just include what you think is useful.
Great job Michi and many thanks
I ask for two things...but only one is possible me thinks.
If you could get hootgaming working on your next rom, now that would be something. Something tells me it won't be possible as getting hold of the client .cab for winmob seems rather difficult.
Back in reality...I tend to use Claunch on my today screen as it works well but the only buttons that are any good tend to be based on the Iphone. Any app like this with an original button interface would be fantastic.
Keep up the good work.
I am a little overwelmed which how much stuff you can hack up or modify with this compared to my Compaq iPaq I had about 9-10 years ago. I could really use some help with a few questions. My 1st post here, and i am going to try not to be a newbie, i do a lot of developing with FoFiX, and XBMC skins, and know what it's like to get newb's asking questions already answered. But i have searched and read for 9 hours straight now and just confused still about a few things. If anyone doesn't mind answering these and just had some time, I would really appreaciate the help.
I already messed around with trying out the other home alternative, and iPhone clone, and after playing around since with the manila/TouchFlo, so far it's the best one out with being skinable and also is smoothest and nicest looking, with easiest finger touch control. So i am now wanting to learn as much as i can. I'm by far no stranger to MOD'ing stuff , so i mostly understand the dAnGeR's and terminology. I am already going to start converting an XBMC skin i co-develop ('Back-Row') for ever one to use. I do a good bot of all the graphics for it, and doing all the work to update it for 1900x1080 realms.
1) Currently i am using Manila2D_1.00_1819.2926 for now, and still can't quite figure out about the differences of using either 'kitchen' or 'Loaded' manilla ROM files. I am gathering from reading that this allows you to replace your current rom with another ROM that already has manilla inside/cooked so you are running it directly, as part of the overall OS, thus saving internal memory, allowing certain problems from happening. Like it here and there switches programs (opera) back to the touchflo screen, as well as it prompting "Tap here to start Touchflo" and having to do this every here and there.
2) The touchflo 3d isn't available yet, and possible/definitely wouldn't run on a HTC Mogul (64megs internal, 1?? storage), 4 gig stick memory card (got an 8 gig stick on the way from Amazon-$14.99) or maybe??? Cube seems to work ok so far, alongside with Manila2D_1.00_1819.2926. I read about install problems and such with Manila if cube was installed, it's working fine for me.
3) When i make a contact memory, i notice it doesn't seem to hold the memory setting. As when i go back, they are all blank again "+"), is there possibly a file that needs a reg switch or is this just a bug? My favorite program links I set stay just fine though.
Again, thanks for any help on this guys. I am still reading and searching, and will keep an eye on this thread in case someone will hopefully answer this. And thanks again in advance.
Here's the deal. HTC Titan has only 64 Megs of RAM, ~25-27 of which are usable at bootup. This means a beautiful app such as M2D takes up its fair share of memory and CPU, causing intensive programs such as Opera Mobile to crash now and then.
If you want to make that sacrifice for a pretty, flowing interface, you will not be alone. Scrosler makes an excellent ROM [variant of DCD's 3.2.6] which I've found - over the course of a few weeks - very stable.
Again with the cube interface.. it's just pretty graphics and will eat up alot of precious memory once you get some intensive programs running. If you just want your phone to be impressive and fun - cool, go for it.
With respect to the contacts vanishing, that is a problem with the way your Windows Live is set up. To resolve it I think you must force the server to -not- attempt to sync your contacts. Also, use dotFred's PIM Backup [found in development & hacking] and you will be able to save your contacts, messages, tasks, etc. on a single backup file.
If you are going to get into flashing various ROMs, I suggest picking up UC Autorun. Had I used it from the start, I would have sliced off several days of reconfiguring.
I've read this numerous times. I consistently see people write that if one runs M2D, especially on scrosler's ROM, that one sacrifices memory and that's why opera and things have problems.
I disagree. Because the ROM already has so much free RAM, I have more memory running M2D on this ROM than I did running a stock ROM.
The R4R ROM, if one installs the HTC Task Manager, has EnableAutokill enabled by default. This is what's killing your apps when you start running low on memory. I recommend disabling it. There are instructions if you keep reading that thread. Or you can download my updates to this ROM, which are also linked to in the R4R thread. Maybe a couple more hours of reading and you'll get through the whole thread.
I disagree.
bitserve said:
I've read this numerous times. I consistently see people write that if one runs M2D, especially on scrosler's ROM, that one sacrifices memory and that's why opera and things have problems.
I disagree. Because the ROM already has so much free RAM, I have more memory running M2D on this ROM than I did running a stock ROM.
The R4R ROM, if one installs the HTC Task Manager, has EnableAutokill enabled by default. This is what's killing your apps when you start running low on memory. I recommend disabling it. There are instructions if you keep reading that thread. Or you can download my updates to this ROM, which are also linked to in the R4R thread. Maybe a couple more hours of reading and you'll get through the whole thread.
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Click to collapse
I really appreciate the opinions and such for responses. That's helpfull to me. Today i removed the cube program, since i store the cab file on my 8 gig storage stick in case i want to dump it on, but also since a fair bit of what it does i can still also do with M2D anyway. Although yes it's cool looking, the main purpose can be done with M2d, and for the most part i now have "Free:18.70MB" of free available space from "Free: 10.24MB", almost doubled the amount of free memory space. As well as freeing up the space from "In Use:42MB" down to now being "In Use:34MB". So at least now programs aren't crashing.
Now things are working fine. I still need to mess with the contacts not saving, but program links are fine. Trying to understand about the mentioned how to possibly fix this with Windows Live and syncing. And also why touchflo still throws the 'Tap to load Touchflo' problem. Would flashing with this said 'Kitchen' ROM or the extra one include touchflo so it's always kind of running? This is the last 2 questions for me to work out, everything else i got going and understand already.
I'm thinking of another ROM line, to be good enough to use for business (so it has to be very stable) and with toned down, professional graphics. This will very much be a "clean" ROM, with no extra BS apps or addons. Can I hear some suggestions please ?
Looking forward to it..
As you already know, I'm not a huge fan of the HTC apps/enhancements, so I would leave those out with the option of installing via cab, or have them in the ROM with a working toggle to turn them off.
I would say do as many of the "under the hood" tweaks you can do without sacrificing stability.
As for graphics, I already like your taskbar in your WM6.5 series, and I think that could stay. I'm not sure what changes you would have in mind for graphics, but I think the graphics you have now are pretty clean.
Are you thinking of a WM6.5 ROM or a WM6.1 ROM? I didn't see that mentioned, so I thought I would ask since you've done both in the past.
i think you should go with stock graphics people customize if they choose. my ideal business rom would be like juicy's cdma one
"It's business, It's business time!" - Flight of the Conchords
I think this is a GREAT idea. Would this be 6.1 or 6.5? 6.5 is very close to being capable of generating a "stable" ROM.
Even though this is business oriented, I think anyone would much appreciate the style (icons, themes, graphics) that you put into your ROMs. Same would hold true for most of the enhancements. Maybe trim down some of the fluff.
simple is the Best
go for it am sure will be a good Rom.
Good Luck
WOW, another one. jeez, you gonna be busy LOL. I get frustrated sometimes with just the one version. More power to ya
What about a stock looking version? I know some people would like a ROM that is much better than the crappy one that comes preinstalled. I think you might get a lot of hits from a lighter ROM that looks semi-stock. As stable as stock, but with all the enhancements and tweaks you can squeeze into it. Possibly a 6.5 and 6.1 version.
I think it's a very good idea and in my opinion the ROM must be based on WM 6.1. Email/SMS/MMS/Vido call/WIfi/ must work without a hitch. You could include opera 9.7b and maybe IE 8.
These are my suggestions. Merci.
P.S. i only use your roms!
mdalacu said:
I think it's a very good idea and in my opinion the ROM must be based on WM 6.1. Email/SMS/MMS/Vido call/WIfi/ must work without a hitch. You could include opera 9.7b and maybe IE 8.
These are my suggestions. Merci.
P.S. i only use your roms!
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Click to collapse
Newer versions of PIE only work with 6.5 as far as I know. I agree that the most stable ROM is going to be 6.1, but if you go with 6.5 I would suggest an older build. 23001 seems like a turd to me. Went back to 21820 and its twice as fast with no bugs.
3 important things for a business ROM:
1. As clean as possible (only essential progs. installed, like Pim Backup, Adobe Reader, Pocket RAR, Google Maps, GPS Test)
2. Stable = reliable
3. Good battery life
jmckeejr said:
23001 seems like a turd to me. Went back to 21820 and its twice as fast with no bugs.
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Click to collapse
lol i know what you mean
I have reverted back to 21018. After playing around with 4 later builds and a little go with 6.5 I am back here to old faithful. Very fast, battery burns lean, and every build i have tried later than this had some problem or other. slow/buggy or battery destroyer.
Easy to Use Dialer
Dialer:...................Accurate - consistent - easy to use - good speaker phone / mute / automated menu support
Three interfaces:....TF3D2 – Titanium – Win Phone Basic Text interface
Graphics:...............Clean with color - Landscape mode 6.1 style (quick easy buttons) Portrait Mode Action softkey
GPS:.....................Good stand alone support (no data plan)
MMS:....................Support for the largest attachments the carriers will allow
SMS:....................Good support for text conversations
Weather:...............Good support for text and graphic reports in all interfaces
Stocks:.................Good support for text and graphic reports in all interfaces
Wifi / Networking:...Corporate and HotSpot support
Programs Tab:........(TD3D2) 3 or 4 column option with app names under icons
Good battery life Business does not mean Boring – It means Practical Predictable Performance
Apps
I would say:
Remote Desktop
World Card
Adobe Reader
Office Suite (obviously)
Google Maps AND Live Search
All of the basics for GPS- QuickGPS, aGPS settings, etc.
Live Messenger (for Office Communicator support)
Those are the 'business' tools that I use most. Does that help?
yes yes yes
thank you for start takeing this as trend
please under the hood basic application
some applications in my rom i cant even remember when i used them
the most imprtant is Battary vs application ( i have charger at the car,home , office., .......poof....)
any small clock tic will eat somthing from the phone
Ram and heat.
my x1 cracked because of the heat, my ear after a good call get fride.
some rams goes above 60%
example i tried yesterday to put my phone in full withe new cocked rom( backlight full and battery power on ) the battarey draind in less than 2 hours, without any call or sms ... nothing
but applications like email,office,sms,organizer and contacts will be fine
yes please Business Edition is great what ever under the hood
Loved the Energy Rom3......but it was lacking (I could not find anyways) Voice Command applet. I use blue-tooth headset continually and have calls/messaging/reminders etc routed thru blue-tooth headset. Would love to see that in the business edition. That's mostly what this phone is used for.
bassam said:
example i tried yesterday to put my phone in full withe new cocked rom... ...nothing
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Click to collapse
Those **** roms are terrible...
This is an awesome idea... The chrome version was cool... but perhaps more emphasis on productivity. A nice action screen that brings up all of the things you would use on a daily basis and keeps them right at your fingertips... I know I need to take notes at a moments notice in my job... and it's hard to get things where I need them to be sometimes...
Also contacts and appointments are of the utmost importance... Constantly scheduling things and changing them around, it's nice to have things in an easily accessible spot...
Though I don't spend much time on the phone lately... I would imagine bluetooth would be crucial as well... and having as much control from the headset as possible would also be nice...
Then of course some "hey check me out *****es" graphics and apps that are streamlined and professional looking enough to show your boss when you pull the phone out and he asks "what the hell is that thing?"
That's just my $ 750,500,000 ZWD
Quite honestly, your current ROM is fit for business and displays appropriate graphics and tones. The add-ons are typically ones the manufacturers have missed and allow a much better experience than stock. I work with professionals everyday and when I show off ROM's from XDA, they often say if I had seen that at ATT or T-Mobile, I would have purchased this phone vs. Blackberry or iPhone.
This sounds like what I've been waiting for!
A simple WM6.5 interface that is stable and fast. No touchflo, as we all know that is not for business users. I think the best thing for this special business line, is that all the under the hood settings come pre-configured, and don't give us the option to make advanced config changes. I seriously waste so much time trying to tinker with the settings, and eventually make the device less stable.
Also this line should have one application for each function. I rarely need 15 chat clients, and 10 media apps!
Great idea.. Make sure to add Stock and Weather to Chome 6.5 These are helpful for those business travelers on the go with an eye on the market.. The JML Stocks plugin is sweet!!!!
Is this really needed?
I'm nearly new with this machine, but a very heavy Bussiness user of HTC PDAs for 5 years.
Comming from an Hermes, I have flashed your Energy Magic Rom 20090630 after two week of trying the stock one and threads reading here, and for me your main rom is fast, accurate, conservative with battery and completly perfect for work.
If someone feel titanium or tf3d improductive, it could be dissable. And the same could be done with the new menus and notification style.... To change three or four options in the default behaviour of your rom, that could be made with a few clicks here and there, don't justify a new line of roms.
Just my though...
Sorry to make a whole new thread about this, but just curious if anyone else has been having this 'issue'
ive flashed quite a few of the roms on the forums, and for some strange reason, i cant seem to find a rom which just WORKS
the main thing i use my handset for is email and SMS messaging, in any given month easily 4000+ SMS' will be sent and the same number received.
this for some reason appears to 'break' a lot of the rom's
the phone slow's riiiight down and when exiting one conversation to go to the next, it hangs every single time, when i go to select the messaging application, it just hangs, or doesnt even go in at all.
i've used the Energy roms, the Chrome roms, Da_G's clean rom, NATF's roms
i've been through pretty much all of the rom's on here and they ALL break once the SMS count gets in the 3000+ region, and i appreciate its simple to just 'delete' the messages, but this isnt particularly practical, at the moment i'm having to hard reset every month or so and this really takes the piss
can anyone point me in the direction of a nice lean rom that can handle an obscene amount of SMS' and emails?
with thanks
I guess no one send and receive 4000+ SMS' per month except you
that's why nobody tried to check with this issue
but the phone should be able to handle it! i mean, one of my older nokia's can handle the 4000+ with ease
The microsoft SMS program just cannot handle that many of messages. Either back them up (remove from inbox) periodically, or delete them periodically.
you may want to disable sms conversation (threading).
just out of curiosity, why do you need 4000+ sms a month ?
one question... where are your messages stored? in phone memory or on the storage card?
Pampilius86 said:
one question... where are your messages stored? in phone memory or on the storage card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for the email, the attachments are stored on storage card
otherwise, i never knew we could change where SMS's are stored?!
the 4000+ sms's are just what i use tbh, thats on a good month tho, usually hovers around that mark however
i remember back in the wizard/hermes time clean rom's were all the rage, now, since we've got the devices with huge amounts of ram/rom all we're seeing is bloated rom's!
bursucul said:
you may want to disable sms conversation (threading).
just out of curiosity, why do you need 4000+ sms a month ?
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Click to collapse
the thing is, i use the threading facility a LOT, back before wm6/6.1 i actually had an application i would install on my ppc to have the SMS' threaded
but to be honest, why should the tp not be able to handle that many SMS's without slowing down?!
duke_stix said:
Sorry to make a whole new thread about this, but just curious if anyone else has been having this 'issue'
ive flashed quite a few of the roms on the forums, and for some strange reason, i cant seem to find a rom which just WORKS
the main thing i use my handset for is email and SMS messaging, in any given month easily 4000+ SMS' will be sent and the same number received.
this for some reason appears to 'break' a lot of the rom's
the phone slow's riiiight down and when exiting one conversation to go to the next, it hangs every single time, when i go to select the messaging application, it just hangs, or doesnt even go in at all.
i've used the Energy roms, the Chrome roms, Da_G's clean rom, NATF's roms
i've been through pretty much all of the rom's on here and they ALL break once the SMS count gets in the 3000+ region, and i appreciate its simple to just 'delete' the messages, but this isnt particularly practical, at the moment i'm having to hard reset every month or so and this really takes the piss
can anyone point me in the direction of a nice lean rom that can handle an obscene amount of SMS' and emails?
with thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think this would be the ROMs fault. You see the more messages you store in your fone the less memory and stability it has. Instead of having old messages in your fone why not delete them? Talk about practicality, whats practical about having old messages in ur fone just to take up excess memory? So someone texts u one question, u answer it and have no intentions of messaging them back, yet its more practical to keep these messages in ur fone and then complain that u have to hard reset instead of deleting a few messages due to having all these redundant mesages that u really dont need? Seems to me an intelligent person would rather delete a few messages rather than hard resetting their device and lose everything. Maybe u can make a fresh ROM with no extras and nothing more than a fone and an email device. I mean, why have a PDA if all ur gonna do is text and email? Seems to me u can save a few hundred bux and just get a cheap lil fone that has no customization whatsoever to leave all the room for messaging? Sorry if I sound like I have an attitude, honestly I dont, I just think that the chefs u mentioned have awesome ROMs that keep getting better and better yet u diss them cuz ud rather hard resest and lose everything rather than simply deleting a few hundred messages that u dont need anyway.
It's like if you don't clean your house regularly and just throw your rubbish everywhere, then you complain that you're living in a pig sty and your house fills up with rubbish so fast you can't move around the house as quickly as you used to. Then after a month, you need to fully renovate the whole interior of the house again so that you have space to walk...
My suggestions :
1) start learning some housekeeping(make that little effort to delete the sms yourself)
2) get a bigger house (new phone with more ram and faster CPU)
3) get a cleaner to come in to clean your rubbish once in awhile (there might be some sms program out there that can auto delete your sms on a regular basis)
4) or reorganise the layout of your house so that it's more efficient (forget about sms threading and use the conventional format, I'm sure it'll speed things up a bit since it doesn't have to load the entire conversation everytime)
duke_stix said:
but the phone should be able to handle it! i mean, one of my older nokia's can handle the 4000+ with ease
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Click to collapse
Is your older nokia using sms threading and displaying the whole history of the conversation everytime you enter the inbox?
I highly doubt it.. so you've got your answer there already.
I used to be a project manager, I would send about 500 emails a day at work easily. After a month of working it would take FOREVER to open outlook. Thats because it has to load the entire contents of 10k + emails. Its the same with your phone. Back up and delete or don't complain. Flash a stock ROM and open your windows folder, and then flash a custom ROM and do the same. you will see the speed increase there. Also, if you leave SMS open and just hit end key it wont have to reload everything every time you open a message.
I have the same problem that your talking about since i average about 7-12K a month of sms.. Like everyone said the only way to deal with it is just to clear your inbox or put it to unthreaded.. Our phones just werent meant to hold that much sms i suppose..
duke_stix said:
the main thing i use my handset for is email and SMS messaging, in any given month easily 4000+ SMS' will be sent and the same number received.
this for some reason appears to 'break' a lot of the rom's
the phone slow's riiiight down and when exiting one conversation to go to the next, it hangs every single time, when i go to select the messaging application, it just hangs, or doesnt even go in at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe most of the problem here is that you don't precisely understand what's going on behind-the-scenes. Your CPU/processor is only capable of running a single instruction at once- and thus only process a finite amount of data per unit time.
When designing an algorithm (in this case, the algorithm that reads SMS/E-mail database entries and displays them onscreen), tasks which apply to more than one or two items are usually completed by either iteration or recursion. For a task such as enumerating SMS messages onscreen, the process would be iterative; for example, if you were to break it down into simple steps, those steps might be:
1. Read the current SMS message from the database.
2. Display it on screen.
3. If there's another text message after this, repeat this process for it.
Step 1 itself actually is composed of several detailed steps, which take the time to perform a second algorithm, which tries to locate the current SMS message in the database, usually based on a unique identifier and a hashing algorithm. This takes time, but is faster than the alternative- which is to check each SMS and ask "is this the one I want?". Instead of having to check each message, the device usually only has to check a few until it finds the right location.
You can think of this as the device automatically categorizing messages into virtual 'boxes'- you have to spend a hell of a lot less time digging through a box to find 1 document out of 10 then by searching through a much larger heap of 4000 documents.
Step 3 is also composed of several steps, as the device has to figure out which SMS message is really next. As the user is capable of configuring the way in which the messages are sorted (by date, sender, etc.), the message that's next in the database is probably not the next message that's stored in the database. Time has to be spend finding the message, usually by yet another algorithm.
The problem is, each of these steps, and each of their sub-steps, and each of the sub-steps required to run those (all the way down to the machine code level) take time, and each have to be executed for every message the application would like to display.
Thread-view further complicates the matter by creating additional relations between the messages, and requiring the OS to look for even more posts during each step.
And this process isn't all that's going on at once- the operating system is trying to do something called TDM, or Time-Division Multiplexing (Multitasking), which allow you to run more than one program at once on a single CPU (which in turn can only do one thing at once). This basically lets the individual processes take individual turns so quickly that they seem simultaneous.
Because of all this, computer scientists rate their algorithms by degradation. We actually have a measure called Big-O (asymptotic) notation that tells you how well an algorithm handles load.
A good algorithm generally has performance of O(N) or better. This means that for every N elements (in your case, e-mail), it takes approximately N iterations to complete. Note the assumption that each "base iteration" executes in a (roughly) fixed time.
Assuming the WM message app uses a sensible algorithm (and it would be difficult for it not to), we can assume its efficiency is approximately O(N)- as it is simply O(N) for non-threaded, and it is O((N/S) * S) for threaded, which simplifies to O(N). This means that for every 4000 messages, it will need to iterate 4000 times.
Considering the application can't store 4000-messages worth of data, it spends a lot of time during each iteration moving messages in and out of memory.
Given all of this, the Windows Mobile message parsing algorithm is the cause of your 'slowness' and 'hangups'. These periods of non-responsiveness are simply WM trying to run through the algorithm for all of the huge quantities of messages.
Hence, the problem is that Windows Mobile simply wasn't designed to bear the load you were forcing it to bear. This means the problem isn't related to the implementation in any given ROM.
can anyone point me in the direction of a nice lean rom that can handle an obscene amount of SMS' and emails?
with thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A ROM isn't going to be your solution- every ROM uses the same core Windows Mobile messaging applications.
It is possible that a combination of a data structure and message parsing algorithm (with the addition of hash and cache optimized for the way you specifically use messaging) could handle all of these messages without any considerable degradation; but it would run far less efficiently on small amount of messages than the current WM scheme. (And think: how many users have as many messages as you?)
Since no one really needs as many messages as you seem to, consider your options:
1) Implement a database optimized for large amount of messages. Implement a program that hooks all messages and places them in this database instead of the WM one. Write your own message reading/writing application and use in place of the WM one. Note that no one will do this for you. It's not a public interest: if you want it, you'll have to write it. We can help you- but we're not here to do the work for you.
2) Try a third party SMS reader/writer like Vito SMS-Chat. I don't think these will fare much better (in fact, they may fare worse), but if they implement any database of their own and any type of localized caching (especially of recent messages), they may work a bit better.
3) Remove your older SMS messages. This is probably the best option. If you don't need those messages anymore, a Microsoft applet called InboxExtender adds buttons to delete all messages (and to mark them all as read.)
4) Don't use threaded mode. This will decrease the time each parsing iteration takes.
---
This isn't a bug; nor is it a glitch, nor is it WM being crappy. It's much the same as if you tell photoshop to open an 8GB file on your desktop. Your computer may slow to a halt and take forever doing it- but the cause isn't that your computer is crappy, but rather that you're trying to open such a huge file.
Wow! Talk about a detailed explanation. Great explanation ktemkin, u obviously know what ur talkin about. Im actually a part time computer programmer. The biggest problem I see/hear about is people sayng their systems are getting way too slow. No surprise that the biggest reason for this is the used space in their computers hard drive for out-of-date programs, used cache space, ...basically all of the things theyve used before and just never cleaned out. I install 1 program, free their computer up of its junked up memory and update their programs. On this I get credit to simply sit on my butt and delete a few things, lol. Id suppose regardless of the device/computer its all the same. IE, the more room u have to work with, the faster the device's responsiveness is.
Best advice for these PDAs and smartphones for emails is dont leave all of your emails in your inbox folder. Make different folders, then as u go through your emails simply move the selected ones to the selected folders. Then DO NOT sync all of your folders to your device. Only sync the inbox to your device. Then if u ever need a message, u will know which folder its in, then sync that 1 folder, download the message(s), then after ur done, remove that folder from your sync list. When u organize your emails this way u will have a much enjoyable and longer life experience with your device. Hope this helps.
panthersdzynes said:
I dont think this would be the ROMs fault. You see the more messages you store in your fone the less memory and stability it has. Instead of having old messages in your fone why not delete them? Talk about practicality, whats practical about having old messages in ur fone just to take up excess memory? So someone texts u one question, u answer it and have no intentions of messaging them back, yet its more practical to keep these messages in ur fone and then complain that u have to hard reset instead of deleting a few messages due to having all these redundant mesages that u really dont need? Seems to me an intelligent person would rather delete a few messages rather than hard resetting their device and lose everything. Maybe u can make a fresh ROM with no extras and nothing more than a fone and an email device. I mean, why have a PDA if all ur gonna do is text and email? Seems to me u can save a few hundred bux and just get a cheap lil fone that has no customization whatsoever to leave all the room for messaging? Sorry if I sound like I have an attitude, honestly I dont, I just think that the chefs u mentioned have awesome ROMs that keep getting better and better yet u diss them cuz ud rather hard resest and lose everything rather than simply deleting a few hundred messages that u dont need anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact of the matter is, that a lot of the messages on my handset DO need to remain on there for at least the remainder of a fortnight following receipt of said message.
the only 'qualm' i was having was that my older wizard and hermes devices seem to have managed that number of SMS' and more perfectly fine, but my Raphael begins to struggle.
lukesky said:
It's like if you don't clean your house regularly and just throw your rubbish everywhere, then you complain that you're living in a pig sty and your house fills up with rubbish so fast you can't move around the house as quickly as you used to. Then after a month, you need to fully renovate the whole interior of the house again so that you have space to walk...
My suggestions :
1) start learning some housekeeping(make that little effort to delete the sms yourself)
2) get a bigger house (new phone with more ram and faster CPU)
3) get a cleaner to come in to clean your rubbish once in awhile (there might be some sms program out there that can auto delete your sms on a regular basis)
4) or reorganise the layout of your house so that it's more efficient (forget about sms threading and use the conventional format, I'm sure it'll speed things up a bit since it doesn't have to load the entire conversation everytime)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have already tried disabling the SMS threading and although it speeds it up a little, i then also lose track of what message has come from whom.
i understand that 'doing a bit of house keeping' is what i should be doing, however, i barely have time to do said house keeping, and when i do attempt to delete a large volume of messages in one go the phone hangs on me again!
panthersdzynes said:
Wow! Talk about a detailed explanation. Great explanation ktemkin, u obviously know what ur talkin about. Im actually a part time computer programmer. The biggest problem I see/hear about is people sayng their systems are getting way too slow. No surprise that the biggest reason for this is the used space in their computers hard drive for out-of-date programs, used cache space, ...basically all of the things theyve used before and just never cleaned out. I install 1 program, free their computer up of its junked up memory and update their programs. On this I get credit to simply sit on my butt and delete a few things, lol. Id suppose regardless of the device/computer its all the same. IE, the more room u have to work with, the faster the device's responsiveness is.
Best advice for these PDAs and smartphones for emails is dont leave all of your emails in your inbox folder. Make different folders, then as u go through your emails simply move the selected ones to the selected folders. Then DO NOT sync all of your folders to your device. Only sync the inbox to your device. Then if u ever need a message, u will know which folder its in, then sync that 1 folder, download the message(s), then after ur done, remove that folder from your sync list. When u organize your emails this way u will have a much enjoyable and longer life experience with your device. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my emails are already pretty much organised, and i've only got it syncing the last 7 days for me, emails to be honest are fine its moreso the SMS side of things.
I was not complaining nor targetting any particular chef, i was merely voicing my concern that a device as powerful as the raphael seems to baulk at the prospect of a few thousand messages when the older wizard and hermes seem to manage perfectly fine.
i'm not exactly expecting an instantaneous loading of my inbox, i'm not entirely thick, i appreciate that having such a large number of SMS' will inevitably slow the handset down, however, i do not see why the handset should HANG when i try to open the messaging application, or why, when i try to go and open the messaging application it just doesnt register that i've asked it to open the application, just stops and i have to 'tap' it a few times before it opens.
duke_stix said:
the main thing i use my handset for is email and SMS messaging, in any given month easily 4000+ SMS' will be sent and the same number received.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4000+ sms' send AND receive???
so that means:
8000 per month / 30 days in a month = 266,667 per day
266,667 per day / 960 minutes (16 hours * 60) awake a day = 0,278
so say you are 16 hours awake on a day than you send/receive a sms every 15 seconds?? don't you have a real life?
TheWeird1 said:
4000+ sms' send AND receive???
so that means:
8000 per month / 30 days in a month = 266,667 per day
266,667 per day / 960 minutes (16 hours * 60) awake a day = 0,278
so say you are 16 hours awake on a day than you send/receive a sms every 15 seconds?? don't you have a real life?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not all of the messages that are sent and received are single SMS' long!
majority, if not all will be 3/4+ messages long and the replies can be twice as long
duke_stix said:
The fact of the matter is, that a lot of the messages on my handset DO need to remain on there for at least the remainder of a fortnight following receipt of said message.
the only 'qualm' i was having was that my older wizard and hermes devices seem to have managed that number of SMS' and more perfectly fine, but my Raphael begins to struggle.
I have already tried disabling the SMS threading and although it speeds it up a little, i then also lose track of what message has come from whom.
i understand that 'doing a bit of house keeping' is what i should be doing, however, i barely have time to do said house keeping, and when i do attempt to delete a large volume of messages in one go the phone hangs on me again!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1 thing's for sure, the wizard and hermes are definitely non-threaded sms. But it's hard to compare apple to apple. Did you have 4000 in your Inbox and Sent folders on your Wizard and Hermes too?
I don't think the phone has hung, it's probably doing the processing for you. Have a little patience and let it sit there for awhile and do it's thing and see if it's really hanged.
duke_stix said:
my emails are already pretty much organised, and i've only got it syncing the last 7 days for me, emails to be honest are fine its moreso the SMS side of things.
I was not complaining nor targetting any particular chef, i was merely voicing my concern that a device as powerful as the raphael seems to baulk at the prospect of a few thousand messages when the older wizard and hermes seem to manage perfectly fine.
i'm not exactly expecting an instantaneous loading of my inbox, i'm not entirely thick, i appreciate that having such a large number of SMS' will inevitably slow the handset down, however, i do not see why the handset should HANG when i try to open the messaging application, or why, when i try to go and open the messaging application it just doesnt register that i've asked it to open the application, just stops and i have to 'tap' it a few times before it opens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you should try Da_G's test ROM.. the feedback is that it's very fast. If that doesn't work for you, it's time to get a new phone.. maybe consider one of the 1GHZ models...
i have 8000 plus messages on my tp n it doesn't slow down
thing is, i don't use threaded sms. can't get used to it cos i've been using wm since wm5 n it doesn't have it. i guess i got used to the older stuff
Ohhh, you brave souls... haha
I was in the o2 shop this lunch having a play with their live unit (well, except it had no SIM or web connectivity. for this type of phone that's pretty limiting!)
some questions i was unable to get help with, i am hoping you have more experience of, before i consider the device further:
1. SMS display. i much prefer the look of iPhone's SMS "dual conversations" - its very clear which side of the chat is which and generally more friendly and usable. can the x10's change to this type of layout? rather than listing each reply above or below each other. found no options in the main settings area from the home screen (not sure if the context-specific settings under messaging is any different...?)
2. mac compatability. is this possible? can it sync properly with itunes? does it use a 3rd party app to do so? could this be "culled", ala blackberry/palm syncing with itunes? does the x10 appear as a mounted usb volume? (in this way, i could use applescript to manage the library - horrible, but it might work). someone with actual experience here with a mac would allay my fears, rather than commenting it might be possible (sorry if that seems abrupt in advance...)
3. other syncing needs. i guess most other aspects for sync'ing are removed/negated with an android handset - are we as users supposed to follow the "cloud computing" google-masterplan? do others sync with desktops and for what purpose?
4. browser/app zooming. the device doesnt have multi-touch (plenty covered on this, and other forums!) but, the iPhone has other methods of navigating around the browser and apps. i.e. double tapping a block of text, which i would consider a single fingered gesture. as the test unit i was playing had no web connectivity i couldnt test it out - can someone comment?
here's hoping for advantageous answers
jingo_man
1. use Handcent SMS , can make it look 100% like iPhone sms
jingo_man said:
...............
1. SMS display. i much prefer the look of iPhone's SMS "dual conversations" - its very clear which side of the chat is which and generally more friendly and usable. can the x10's change to this type of layout? rather than listing each reply above or below each other. found no options in the main settings area from the home screen (not sure if the context-specific settings under messaging is any different...?)
...............................
3. other syncing needs. i guess most other aspects for sync'ing are removed/negated with an android handset - are we as users supposed to follow the "cloud computing" google-masterplan? do others sync with desktops and for what purpose?
4. browser/app zooming. the device doesnt have multi-touch (plenty covered on this, and other forums!) but, the iPhone has other methods of navigating around the browser and apps. i.e. double tapping a block of text, which i would consider a single fingered gesture. as the test unit i was playing had no web connectivity i couldnt test it out - can someone comment?....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Well, probably the handcent sms thingy, never tried it tho.
or you could go into contacts and find the contact there. When you go there the sms messages are listed in a simmular way as on the iPhone.
You on the right hand side
and you friend on the left..
3. I have just used the Cloud sync method to be honest, haven't really bothered to do it in any other way. But there is probably a way to do it.
4. The zooming is no problem to be honest, the double-tap to zoom thing works good enough. So I have to say that I kinda like it Even tho the multi-touch zoom was handy every now and then..
1. handcent works fine on this phone, and has customisable colours and themes.
2. can't comment on mac, but it is APPARENTLY possible to sync with itunes for the PC through iTunes Agent. I know this won't help you but it might help someone else reading this later.
3. cloud seems to be the way forward, and it works great on the x10. when you first plug it in to the usb though you get the option to install some sony ericsson syncing software, which is the same as i used for my c902 to transfer all my contacts to gmail for this phone. it is pretty simple to use.
4. the default zoom on the android is nice to use. browsers like dolphin (available from the market) come with their own zoom, but i disabled this cos the x10 seems to handle it nicely natively.
hope that helps
1. handsent sms. hmmmm... that does look more along the lines that i was thinking for layout/design. but i'm guessing this wont play nice with the timescape app, which seems pretty central.
i thought i went into the individual contact at one point, and it had the same appearance as when displayed under the general. i may make a return visit to the store to check that out...
i dont think i would mind using separately bought apps, but 1 of the biggest selling points seems to be the timescape so not sure i'd want to miss out on using it. though might change once i have used it for a while...
2. here's hoping eventually a mac user stumbles across this thread and is in a giving mood about their experience.
3. cloud syncing. suppose i can get onboard. not a massive issue not to rely on desktop software. i guess this means no-one really sync's it with a desktop then?]
4. glad of the double-tap zoom, atleast thats something. and its generally how i start to zoom on iPhone (in the browser) but how does this work in other apps? i.e. google maps cant double tap, as there's no "frame border" to sync the tap too...
this could a deal breaker for me, for this product. not a massive app user, but love web browsing on these devices when out-and-about. fine control offered by pinch/zoom far more refined and easier to use than the clunky zoom button, which just didnt seem to refresh fast enough to make it smooth...
maybe wont get onboard with all these bits until i consistently use the device, but not paying best part of £500 to find out!
please continue with more insights if you got 'em
2. mac compatability. is this possible? can it sync properly with itunes? does it use a 3rd party app to do so? could this be "culled", ala blackberry/palm syncing with itunes? does the x10 appear as a mounted usb volume? (in this way, i could use applescript to manage the library - horrible, but it might work). someone with actual experience here with a mac would allay my fears, rather than commenting it might be possible (sorry if that seems abrupt in advance...)
hi, Mac user here. Yes it mounts like a USB-HDD, and turns off in the phone. So you can transfere files, and then just unmount it. Transfered 7 GB of musik files, no problem.
jingo_man said:
1. handsent sms. hmmmm... that does look more along the lines that i was thinking for layout/design. but i'm guessing this wont play nice with the timescape app, which seems pretty central.
i thought i went into the individual contact at one point, and it had the same appearance as when displayed under the general. i may make a return visit to the store to check that out...
i dont think i would mind using separately bought apps, but 1 of the biggest selling points seems to be the timescape so not sure i'd want to miss out on using it. though might change once i have used it for a while...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
even with that installed, the other messaging app still runs. handsent simply becomes the default. this means that when you load up timescape, it pulls in the messages from the standard messages app and works like a charm.
its a shame we cant just use the screen under the contact to send a message, that looks pretty good. click onto a contact, and scoll along at the bottom, past call log, onto messaging. that is a sweet screen.
jingo_man said:
2. mac compatability. is this possible? can it sync properly with itunes? does it use a 3rd party app to do so? could this be "culled", ala blackberry/palm syncing with itunes? does the x10 appear as a mounted usb volume? (in this way, i could use applescript to manage the library - horrible, but it might work). someone with actual experience here with a mac would allay my fears, rather than commenting it might be possible (sorry if that seems abrupt in advance...)
3. other syncing needs. i guess most other aspects for sync'ing are removed/negated with an android handset - are we as users supposed to follow the "cloud computing" google-masterplan? do others sync with desktops and for what purpose?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use Salling Media Sync for iTunes sync http://www.salling.com/MediaSync/Mac/
Adress book and iCal has support for google sync, just enable it in the prefs and then everything syncs from google.
Just enter your gmail details.
the web browser on this thing is amazing really. renedering is smooth and pages launch instantly. i am very impressed with the web browser and with the added extra of using dolphin you be on to a winner. web browser on this is better than my N1
you mean like this...?
jingo_man said:
Ohhh, you brave souls... haha
I was in the o2 shop this lunch having a play with their live unit (well, except it had no SIM or web connectivity. for this type of phone that's pretty limiting!)
some questions i was unable to get help with, i am hoping you have more experience of, before i consider the device further:
1. SMS display. i much prefer the look of iPhone's SMS "dual conversations" - its very clear which side of the chat is which and generally more friendly and usable. can the x10's change to this type of layout? rather than listing each reply above or below each other. found no options in the main settings area from the home screen (not sure if the context-specific settings under messaging is any different...?)
.....
here's hoping for advantageous answers
jingo_man
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont know about all the other questions, but did you mean something this? (Oh, crap! Where is my image? Ok, no image, dont know how to get one into this post)
I mean from it you see exactly who is on which side of the conversation