Related
This morning i notice Toshiba has made available PPC 2003 2nd edition, I wonder when we will get ours damnit! See below...
Dear Customers,
Please find attached TOSHIBA CONTACT Australia Newsletter where you will find:
New Tecra A2
New Satellite P20
Sales promotions
PPC 2003 2nd edition download
Value add solutions
Countdown for Queenstown
Latest pricing
What are the new/improved features in WM2003 SE?
Landscape mode.
All the rest is just for micro$oft to brag about their operating system :wink:
Kidding, it´s the following:
- VGA and QVGA that support high-resolution displays,
and a new landscape view.
The following modes are supported.
# Portrait / Landscape QVGA (240x320, 96 dpi)
# Portrait / Landscape VGA (480x640, 192 dpi)
# Square screen (240x240, 96 dpi)
# Square screen VGA (480x480, 192 dpi)
Not all devices will support switching between modes, i.e. landscape-only, portrait-only or square-only devices are possible.
- Phone Edition improvements.
Previously, you were unable to compose a number directly from the Today screen, now with this update, it will be possible. It will now also be possible to send a Short Message Service (SMS) directly from your contacts list. Lastly, there have also been some improvements on Voice Recognition features.
- Other Enhancements
Transcriber will gain the ability to use shortcuts. These will let users write a short code phrase that will be replaced with a much longer piece of commonly used text. Shortcuts can also be used to launch applications.
Much like Windows XP does, the Start Menu will now show the most frequently launched application icons. There is a new section in the Start Menu which will display the most frequently used applications. This is divided from the list of applications that appear because they are stored in the Start folder.
The second edition will also get WPA (WiFi Protected Access), which was developed by the Wi-Fi Alliance in an attempt to make wireless networks more secure.
The new version of Pocket Internet Explorer will also be able to force web pages into a single column, similar to the way NetFront 3.1 and Opera does. This will make reading web sites not formatted for handhelds easier.
That is what i got from reviews and news.
Ive seen other changes to, as a nice improved loading Icon that runs much smoother than the original one. (Maybe to create the illusion of something actually loadin :wink: )
Hey all,
Anyone other than myself tried Torch Mobile's Iris Browser on the Rose?
The current release is version 1.1.2. And according to their blog features:
- Flash Lite ActiveX control
- big performance gains
- reduced memory usage
- preliminary RSS
- preliminary SVG support
- the highest Acid3 score of any shipping mobile browser
- HTC accelerometer support (The rose doesn't have one I believe).
I've installed it and it doesn't work too badly. Much more stabler than the previous versions of it I've installed.
I've found with a SmartPhone OS (aka Windows Mobile Standard) enabling the Mouse Cursor option makes things much easier (Page Menu > Options > Mouse Cursor).
Being a Web Kit based browser it'll also render pretty close to what gets rendered on an iPhone. Which is good because there's so many darn sites out there these days designed to be rendered by the iPhone browser.
Here's my settings (under Page menu):
Zoom: Fit Content Width
View: Mobile Mode
Options: [x] Mouse Cursor.
Oh, and here's the Acid 3 test result.
It scored 100/100.
There's another new version released, v 1.1.3.
For HTC-built MSM7K-based devices only! All MSM7K are technically capable, but only HTC's may have the correct drivers. Will probably not work on stock ROMs. I suspect the CDMA versions of the older MSM7K devices - pre-diamond - do not have the necessary drivers either. As far as I know, the first device that came with these drivers is the Kaiser, but IIRC they are also included in various Polaris ROMs.
About
Short and simple, GfxBoost activates "QTV" mode for specific surfaces. This makes for example DirectDraw display smoother and: a bit slower or significantly faster, depending on how you look at it. It also seems to have a small effect on Direct3D/OpenGL. Effects differ between different devices, driver sets, and ROMs - some see a lot of impact, some virtually none (it seems the older ROMs/devices see the biggest impact). If your performance degrades there is something going wrong, it does happen for some people.
Err, what?
Right, this is a bit tricky! If you will benchmark it the result will be lower FPS. However, it will actually appear faster. This is because normally, not all frames are actually drawn on-screen, and the timing of the drawing can be so it appears nothing is being actually drawn at all. This does not happen when using GfxBoost - more is actually drawn to the screen, and smoother. So, from the application's point of view, it can do less per second, but from what you actually see on-screen, more happens! If you don't understand what I mean, just take it from me: it definitely looks better
Some good effects
Manila2D is faster/smoother [Chainfire]
PointUI is smoother [Chainfire]
CorePlayer playback in DirectDraw mode is smoother [Chainfire] *depends on version and settings*
Titanium seems to be faster [Mikulec]
Diamond Hologram seems to be much faster [aussiebum]
Opera 9.5 seems to be much faster [undac]
SPB Mobile Shell 3.0 seems to be smoother [TITAN-23]
iGo 8 feels the love [draxredd]
morphgear feels the love [draxredd]
FinalBurn feels the love [FlorentG]
TouchFlo 3D feels the love [babijoee]
XTRAKT feels the love [babijoee]
Some bad effects
GfxBoost breaks WMP MP4 playback [FIXED]
GfxBoost breaks camera [FIXED]
GfxBoost breaks Fullscreen/Streaming Player [FIXED]
GfxBoost breaks YouTube [FIXED]
CorePlayer playback in QTV mode may break GfxBoost (may be fixed)
Devices reported this works with
HTC Touch Cruise / Polaris
HTC TyTN II / Kaiser
HTC Touch Diamond / Victor
HTC Touch Pro / Raphael / Fuze
HTC Touch HD / Blackstone
Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 / Venus
Also works with, but not as much effect as with ^^^:
HTC Touch Diamond 2 / Topaz
HTC Touch Pro 2 / Rhodium
Update: it may still have _some_ effect with the Topaz, but I don't think anyone has seen any improvement with the Rhodium, so don't bother Seems the drivers on those devices are quite a bit faster already than the older MSM7K devices
Quirks
Alright, it took a bit of research, a lot of trial and error, quite a bit of hairpulling, a few hours of IDA, and an entire crate of beer to get this working on the few of my devices I actually bothered to test it on (Kaiser and Touch Pro). I think everything is now properly hooked up with HTC's own software so things like Camera and WMP also still work. If you run into anything, strange, well, first RTFM below, then see if you want to post it here.
TFM (The F*ing Manual, read it!)
Requirements
An HTC-built MSM7K-based device, sporting QTV and some similar nonsense. In general, I would say this this is the entire range between the Vogue and the Touch Pro, though I've only tested it on Kaiser and Touch Pro, and both are GSM.
Installation
- Install the CAB on your device
- Soft-reset (does not seem to be needed on all devices)
- Start GfxBoost and click Enable
Uninstallation
- Start GfxBoost (if not running) and click Disable
- Uninstall CAB as usual
- 1.2: You may have to soft-reset and uninstall it again, for reasons unknown
Upgrading
- Install new CAB
- Soft-reset
"What's this Enabled (Inactive) status?
It means another application is running that needs this chipset feature. For example, Windows Media Player, YouTube, Camera, etc. As soon as you exit all of those, GfxBoost should re-activate itself.
"I see no difference Q_Q"
If there's a visible difference depends completely on the application you are running and what you are doing with it (aside from it possibly just not working for you). The more graphical an application is, the more chance you have this makes a difference. I've seen no differences with normal "GDI" style applications (normal apps), but for example on my Kaiser the difference in Manila 2D is enormous.
"What about this video-running-in-the-background-thing I keep reading about?"
If done properly, that has the same effect as GfxBoost. Just not as easy and it doesn't think about other applications that need this chipset feature.
bla bla Coreplayer bla bla
Exactly!
Changelog
1.2 - 22.09.2009
- Some changes to fix issue of GfxBoost not showing up in control panel for some users
- Slight adjustment to loader code, hopefully works for more peoples now (always a guess, if not you can always use 0.7)
1.1 - 01.05.2009
- Some patches to service code and handling
- Added registry fixes for common issues
- WM6.5 icon adjusted again
1.0 - 29.04.2009
- Fixed service version, hopefully this one works
0.8 - 29.04.2009
- Service version
0.7 - 28.04.2009
- Changed loader mechanism
0.6 - 28.04.2009
- Loading of dependencies is dynamic - with error messages
- All files are now signed
- Added program icons [Thanks to 12aon]
Donate
If everybody who uses this buys me a beer, I will be a very happy and/or drunk Chainfire. Please make this happen. See the link in my signature - it's not there for decoration!
Release
Yarr, it r here!
If you are updating GfxBoost, please first "Disable" and "Exit/OK" GfxBoost! Don't forget to soft-reset after installing the new CAB!
There are multiple downloads here, the GfxBoost.cab is the (now old) 0.7, the other are the new 1.1 and 1.2 service versions. Note that in the service versions, the settings panel is under Settings -> System, not under Programs!
You only need to install ONE of these. Older versions are only still available because they work for some people while the newer does not (and vice versa). Do not forget to soft-reset after installation, waiting a minute or two, then opening the Start -> Settings -> System -> GfxBoost and clicking Enable!
(Downloads < 1.1: 3820, 2043 old 0.7)
great job as always Chainfire!
keep up the good work
OWO ChainFire is developing the Holy Grail of the Qualcomm processors!
Ha ! I found you, you're quick as always... Just got the time to express an idea and you've already done all the theory and the app is on the way...
Glad to see it led somewhere.
I was wondering where have u been so long. Looks like u have done a good job, as always. Thanks.
Nice to see you back, with a boom like always
Insane ! You have a nag for improving our lives a lot with very complex improvements. I don't think I fully understand what this does, the thought creating it hurts my brain, Thanks a lot
Mr Burns: Excellent!
With nueDynamicClock hopefully getting o/clocking and a graphics boost, my Diamond will take to the skies! Hopefully...
Another great project, thanks!
So you're forcing the backbuffer to draw to screen, Is that right?
It are the released!
Wow I think it works on my TP, switching albums in tf3d seems smoother. I made an Icon for the ocasion hope you like it, 12
Doesnt work on Polaris with WM 6.5... Runtime error 216 at $03F9332C $03F9332C
Chainfire said:
For HTC-built MSM7K-based devices only!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Petulinek said:
Doesnt work on Polaris with WM 6.5... Runtime error 216 at $03F9332C $03F9332C
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
read 1st post
I too get that "Runtime error 216 at $03F94E04", although I have a Kaiser under WM 6.1
Nice program I will give it a go
kancrutt said:
read 1st post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
doesn't the polaris have the same hardware as the kaiser?
HTC Touch HD
Works perfect on Touch HD... good work, thanks
sipospeter said:
doesn't the polaris have the same hardware as the kaiser?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course does...
kancrutt said:
read 1st post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read it... Polaris is the same like a Kaiser... ****qualcomm MSM7200...
Description:
Unlike other IMDb apps which parse IMDb pages for information, this app uses the iPhone IMDb API to retrieve information from IMDb.com and display it on your Windows Mobile.
The Darkman has kindly offered to help with the project & do some much needed bug fixing/feature adding. All thanks go to him for keeping the project alive!
Code:
[b]v0.8.2 - Changelog[/b]
- Fixed: Changed image caching structure. Images are now stored in different folders. This is because when there are to much images in 1 folder the app crashes.
[b]v0.8.1 - Changelog[/b]
- Fixed: Gzip compression can now be disabled.
- Fixed: Trailers button now not shown when no trailers are available
- Added: Image caching + option to enable/disable it. (default:disabled)
[b]v0.8 - Changelog[/b]
- Added: Bottom Top 100.
- Added: Settings page and filmography page are now translatable.
- Added: A no image available image when no image is available for a movie or actor.
- Added: Movie covers on filmography (movies of actor) page.
- Added: Missing android icons on movie page.
- Added: Spanish language.
- Added: A Cache folder for the cached items. (so the install folder stays clean)
- Added: Search box is cleared when returning on Home screen.
- Fixed: The images on the cast "preview" page.
- Fixed: The bug that when a movie does not have a cover not all movie information is shown.
- Fixed: If a search already exists in Recent Searches the oldest occurence is deleted.
- Fixed: It isn't possible anymore to search when no search term is entered.
- Fixed: Movie Items (goofs/episodes/quotes/etc) are now not shown when not available.
- Fixed: In the Settings screen, the keyboard automatically closes when saving or cancelling.
- Fixed: On the Coming soon page the release date is now translatable.
- Fixed: Fixed a bug on actor page, text was unreadable by actors with to long biography.
- Fixed: Trailers functionality. Removed the not working trailers (which caused the Out of Memory exception)
Also removed the 720p trailers (these where not working either).
Trailer functionality is tested with HTC streaming media 3.10
HTC streaming media is now the default player (when available) instead of windows media player.
[b]v0.7.6 - Changelog[/b]
- Fixed the problems with QVGA resolutions.
[b]v0.7.5 - Changelog[/b]
- Fixed the "Cannot convert integer to string" error.
- Popup "Changing Skins will require a restart of the application" in settings menu was always popping up after save. now only when skin is changed.
- Added languages (Czech, Dutch, French, German)
- Added runtime on movie page.
- Add "Big image feature" as setting. This will put bigger images on the movie and actor page.
- Fixed the image not downloading for Movie page after browsing through a couple of pages.
Important Info
1. This application downloads a lot of data. Please ensure you're using an unlimited data plan
2. The "Download Thumbnails" feature is unstable. If you're experiencing a lot of errors, switch this off & soft-reset the device.
3. The application downloads data as-required. Therefore a constant data connection is preferred. Areas where signal is intermittent may cause errors
Features:
- Screen/Orientation Independant
- User Ratings/Reviews
- External Reviews
- Search Movies/TV/Video Games/Actors
- Finger-friendly interface
- DVD Covers
- Actor Headshots
- Trivia
- Quotes
- Photos
- Top 250
- Coming Soon List
- Videos/Trailers
- Goofs
- App-To-Date Support
- TV Episode Listings
- Parental Guide Info
- Movie Certificates
Requirements:
.NET Framework 3.5
Downloads:
v0.8.2 Installer
Latest Source Code (C#.NET 3.5)
Great idea! Can't wait to test this
I have only tested this on WVGA, but it should work for other resolutions
wow.. nice work will post impressions on it soon
UPDATE : BestWindowsMobileApps.com Review ( version 0.6 )
Blade0rz said:
I have only tested this on WVGA, but it should work for other resolutions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll test it on my Diamond
works on VGA will post a short video soon
Yup works great! Thanks!
Awesome works on VGA can't wait for the rating to be there..
Nice! Going to try it out now
Excellent app.just what have been needing.works great on my kaiser qvga.
thank you.
regards
lohtse
Cool app.
I can't wait to see it with more information displayed within the app though. Like which actors played which characters and the trivia and goofs and that such.
Keep up the good work.
awsome!
dude,
Great job..its quite simple and fast !
i was looking for something smiler, coz no app as my knowledge does that in our lovely WM, I have the reader with IMDB data base, but for the new movies what shall we do !!!
anyway, I think if will add more info, i mean every thing should be shown in the app it self will be more than perfect, and also i think the most info is this :
1-User Rating
2-Plot
3-Genre
4-Actors
But, dude, thanks again and may god bless you
see you in next version bro!
Great App. Thanks.
Ya think Steve Jobs will try to restrict use of iPhone API's?
I applaud you for releasing the source code. Have you considered creating a Google Code project for this?
Blade0rz, many thanks for this really nice application to tap into IMDB's vast resources. Like shabek, I look forward to additional info especially Ratings, Plot/Sypnosis and Ratings. One comment is that I noticed the image aspect ration is distorted. WOuld be great if we can have the correct image aspect ration for posters and actors. Thanks again and I will be tracking this daily
app runs good on my omnia i910. it would be great to have a synopsis of movie and ability to select the actor and have their info come up. also, i cannot go back once i pull up a movie. i have to close the app and reopen it again and perform another search.
this is a great idea and thanks for contributing it. i look forward to future releases
Nice app, it works on my Rhodium WVGA, but has some problems installing.
When installed (I can't choose to put it on my phone or external memory), I can't find it in the thumbnails. To open the program, I have to search it in my Explorer (my machine / Program Files / IMDB Mobile).
It also has some minor problems with the landscape; I can type, but it doesn't respond on the 'enter' command and the pictures are stretched to halfway my screen. The text doesn't go to fullscreen either, only to halfway.
The landscape thing is not a biggy (especially since it's the first beta and you cracked the iPhone program), but am I the only one who's having the installing problem?
But besides this, a great app! It's the #1 app I've been searching for lately and I'm very thankful that you've been putting effort in making it!
[edit]
I've noticed where the installing problem is. When you instal the app, it sends the shortcut to the folder "Windows / Start Menu". Maybe it's because I've got the official Dutch 6.5 ROM, but my programs are in "Windows / Startmenu".
Thanks Mate , very Nice , works like a charm
At the moment,its more of a proof of concept more than anything. I have implemented Plot, Tagline, Directors, Writers, Rating so far from the movie details.
The API also contains data for Quotes, Cast, Trivia, etc so all of those will eventually be implemented.
The app isnt a port of the iPhone one, it just uses the same data. Any interface issues are my fault
Hopefully should have a fully functional beta by the end of the week
can't wait buddy!
2core ROMs make your Topaz work like 2 cores...
Post#1: Info / FAQ
Post#2: Downloads
Post#3: (reserved)
=================================
Aims:
1. Performance
========================================================
Features (all ROMs):
0. GENERAL
+ based on the latest official rom for Topaz 2.53.479.3
+ Overclockable up to 730 MHz with WiMoSpeed
1. SYS
+ remove all useless packages (Onenote, Autoupdate...)
+ NetCF3.5
2. EXTs
+ Acrobat
+ Album
+ Calculator
+ Camera & Camcorder
+ Games (Bubble & Solitaire)
+ Google map
+ Office mobile
+ QuickGPS
+ Radio FM
+ Task manager
+ USB to PC
+ Voice recorder
+ Youtube
3. Added APPs
+ Opera mini 5.1 (thanks to Tortel)
+ Opera 10
+ PHM regeditor
+ Synchrotime (connect internet to sync time, thanks to Gsoft)
+ Wimospeed (overclock tool, thanks to iwfratz)
+ FingerSuite (nice popup menus and message box, thanks to Carlucci)
+ XDAshutdown
4. Tweaks (following Mr. Makk)
+ Pagepool 20 M
+ Auto align screen
+ Reduce RAM usage
+ Maxi touch sensitivity
+ Power saving
+ ... others
+ Compressed with XPR method, which is larger but is believed faster than the LZX method, see here
=================
ROMs
2coreT3.7
+ SYS 21689 (6.5.3, HTC branch)
+ Free storage: 347 M
+ Free ram: 114 M (/180 M)
============================
FAQ
1. How to over-clock?
- run WiMoSpeed in /Programs/WiMoSpeed/WiMoSpeed
- increase the increment to the speed you want, press "set speed" (try until the phone reset automatically, that's the limit)
- for further question, go to iwfratz
1.1 Does overclock affect battery life?
- not significant
- you may check many reports in this thread (on Diamond)
2. How to update Quick GPS?
- go to /Settings/Location Settings/ and turn it on (reset is recommended)
- run QuickGPS and update
3. How to make FingerSuite take effect?
- run /Programs/Fingermenus and /FingerMsgBox (need to wait a bit to finish)
4. How to change settings of Fignermenu and msgbox?
- go to /Settings/System/FingerSuite and change settings as you want
- close it (it will not close), then reset (you may use xdashutdown from /Programs
===============================================
Acknowledgement
+ Tortel for sharing his kitchen (although then I used another one)
+ airxtreme for his perfect kitchen (easy, no bug)
+ Mr. Makk for the world of tips for cooking
+ Some others (brought by Google during cooking)
+ iwfratz for excellent tool making Diamond as fast as 2core
+ You for reading (at least till here), testing (maybe) and asking (I will try to answer, if possible)
==================================
=Donation possible in signature=
==================================
Downloads
ROMs:
2coreT3.7
Cabs:
1. Office mobile 2010 from Mobilism.org
2. Finger keyboard WVGA thanks to Giannis86
3. FingerKeyboard-Giannis WVGA-2core2.0 minimized by nphaibk (only 1 GreyBlue skin, loaded faster)
4. Audio booster
5. Slick 0.67 (YM, MSN, ...)
6. FingerSuite (nice, fast menu)
Useful links:
1. Mobilism: lots of apps
2. Today's screen: host 1.5
Reserved
asdf asd sdf sadf asdf
looks good so far
am trying rom on my topaz right now, so far all looks good, have overclocked to 730mhz using wimospeed and is running fast and smooth, will keep using and report if any bugs found.
thanks
rich
Batery life?
expressive said:
Batery life?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
seems ok to me so far and that is with overclock to 730mhz, better than energy rom i was just using.
expressive said:
Batery life?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
negligible
you can check users' reports for overclocking on Diamond here
file exporer no paste
possible problem with file explorer just tried to copy file from sd card into windows and can long hold stylus and copy but no option to paste in new folder either with long hold or with soft menu button, is this just me or anyone got same problem
richyrich552003 said:
possible problem with file explorer just tried to copy file from sd card into windows and can long hold stylus and copy but no option to paste in new folder either with long hold or with soft menu button, is this just me or anyone got same problem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
with soft menu button, it should be there (I've tested 1 min ago), you may need to scroll to 'edit' at the bottom
when you hold on the screen on a position of a folder or a file, system understands that you want to do something with this folder/file, it popups a menu (copy, cut...), but not 'paste'. in Windows if we right click on a folder, 'paste' is there but in win mobile, it seems not.
hope to help you
nphaibk said:
with soft menu button, it should be there (I've tested 1 min ago), you may need to scroll to 'edit' at the bottom
when you hold on the screen on a position of a folder or a file, system understands that you want to do something with this folder/file, it popups a menu (copy, cut...), but not 'paste'. in Windows if we right click on a folder, 'paste' is there but in win mobile, it seems not.
hope to help you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes thanks you are right i have just got used to roms that are grapicaly different and dont have to scroll, it is there when u scroll so that is my bad, many thanks for your quick response
she's a screamer. good job. using:
ATT Pure
[ROM|WWE] 2core minimized 6.5.3 - overclock to 787 MHz
ThrottleLauncher 1.2.1
[[[[THEME]]]] Lacuna 3.0
operator Menu & USSD not support?
I've tried this rom ,,fast ROM.
but disappointed because I did not find the service menu from my operator
and does not support USSD commands?
kopraljono said:
I've tried this rom ,,fast ROM.
but disappointed because I did not find the service menu from my operator
and does not support USSD commands?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry, what is ussd?
nphaibk said:
sorry, what is ussd?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from wikipedia
Unstructured Supplementary Service Data (USSD) is a protocol used by GSM cellular telephones to communicate with the service provider's computers. USSD can be used for WAP browsing, prepaid callback service, mobile-money services, location-based content services, menu-based information services, and as part of configuring the phone on the network.[1]
USSD messages are up to 182 alphanumeric characters in length. Unlike Short Message Service (SMS) messages, USSD messages create a real-time connection during a USSD session. The connection remains open, allowing a two-way exchange of a sequence of data. This makes USSD more responsive than services that use SMS.[1]
I like the speed of this ROM, I just don't like the default menu that it is using. If you could combine the speed of this ROM with the interface and graphics of Enrgy ROMS, you would have a winner.
Any1 changed from photon 1.9 or 2.0, any speed increase?
Hi!
I'm using Photon ROM now. This ROM looks very interesting, and I have few questions:
1) Can someone post a screen-shot?
2) What does it exactly do to split the single processor in two cores?
3) Is HTC messaging included?
4) Which Manila version is used?
5) Can system be upgraded to 29022 build?
6) Which graphics driver is used in this ROM?
i guess you and I are in the same boat, we will have to try this rom and find out ourselves.
P.S. I just flashed and yes the rom is fast, but lacks the pleasing eye appeal
there's no manila, that i can find
the home screen looks and feels like that of windows 6.0
so i'm switching back to photon myself
i have to say the rom is fast, can't deny that...
latinohot, thank you for the information. I'll stay on Photon then. Hope that some development will be done here, and we will have full-featured fast ROM. (2-Core?)
Does this rom really works? I wonder, it was posted over six months ago, it seems not many seems to get its attention.
I came across this XDA thread here - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1087494 - if, indeed it works, with enhanced speed of 2 cpu cores, maybe (I am not totally sure ....) with the WP7 appeal and look ... could be something interesting? Although, I am a bit worried on the negative comments regarding network connectivity earlier posted.
Anyway, to those brave enough to try, it maybe well worth testing for curiosity's sake ......