I am so feed up with people on this board that think they are entitled and better than us to ask a question that has been asked a million times, instead of searching. It is only getting worse. Now that leakers have root, ppl from androidforum (where the mods treat them like babies and shield them) are flooding this forum with repeated threads and posts. We are not helping them by answering the questions for them. We need to stop this! I for one will no longer give the answer after a smart @$$ reply. I will only leave the smart @$$ comment in.
For those that are lazy and read this. Why do you think you are better than any of us that use search, trial and error? If yuo dont understand it, and cant search, then dont do it. Plain and simple.
I'd say don't answer them. I myself am not educated at all in rooting and could answer a decent amount of questions I see.
So....rather than looking up their question to see if they could have done the same thing previous to them making a new thread....don't
By doing this we'll at least take some slack off from the moderators from closing unnecessary threads bashing foolish OP's....and instead let them focus on real questions and site maintenance. I feel doing otherwise will lead to more silly threads and more attention to these threads a.k.a. bashing them you know.
Also we need not let this thread turn into ANYTHING like XDA vs. androidforums because it still is a teaching/learning community, some people just need to work/search harder before they make threads.
cpupeli1 said:
I'd say don't answer them. I myself am not educated at all in rooting and could answer a decent amount of questions I see.
So....rather than looking up their question to see if they could have done the same thing previous to them making a new thread....don't
By doing this we'll at least take some slack off from the moderators from closing unnecessary threads bashing foolish OP's....and instead let them focus on real questions and site maintenance. I feel doing otherwise will lead to more silly threads and more attention to these threads a.k.a. bashing them you know.
Also we need not let this thread turn into ANYTHING like XDA vs. androidforums because it still is a teaching/learning community, some people just need to work/search harder before they make threads.
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I am not trying to make it a af vs xda. Was just giving an example of how things are there. Whole point of my rant/post was people need to search and ppl need to stop helping ppl that dont search. But just putting that wouldnt have felt better after typing.
I am totally with you droidkevlar. I am no senior member or dev or anything like that. I'm just a regular user who is fortunate enough to have devs like you working to make our phones great. I posted this in a thanks thread, but I suppose I could have posted a new thread like you did.
Also, I just want to stress the importance of SEARCHING AND READING!!!! I made the mistake early on of just either creating a new thread or posting in the wrong thread just so I wouldn't have to read to find the answer. THAT WAS FREAKIN STUPID ON MY PART!!! I wish I would have just read up on everything I wanted to know in the beginning. I would have saved myself a ton of headaches and resets. I would have also learned more than what I know now. I now know that if I want to ask a question, to just search for it first. I can't count the times that someone else has asked the same questions that have been answered countless times. And if I'm wanting to try a script, or change my lock screen or something along those lines, IT HELPS TO READ ALL OF THE POSTS IN THAT PARTICULAR THREAD particularly because most likely, someone with your setup has encountered some sort of problem, did some troubleshooting, and posted a fix for it.
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the new guys need to stop posting help threads in the dev forum for one.
I don't see a huge problem if its kept to the general section. Maybe even a sticky thread for newbies where they can see links to threads for most commonly asked questions and they can post some questions in that thread only.
This way it keeps it all compartmentalized and separated from the rest of the forum. We can direct all the new guys there. If any of the more experienced guys who want to help, they can do so in that thread only.
I understand how too many newbs can clutter up a forum pretty quick. But a lot of this stuff even after searching and reading still leaves a lot of questions, until you absorb the whole concept of this phone/os/rooting culture.
If we don't help some of the new users, we will end up with more threads about how they bricked their phones and then the real flame wars will start.
Keep it in one area. It has to be dealt with, we can't ignore them. We all gain if we share some knowledge, but lay down some ground rules beforehand.
Jp50 said:
the new guys need to stop posting help threads in the dev forum for one.
I don't see a huge problem if its kept to the general section. Maybe even a sticky thread for newbies where they can see links to threads for most commonly asked questions and they can post some questions in that thread only.
This way it keeps it all compartmentalized and separated from the rest of the forum. We can direct all the new guys there. If any of the more experienced guys who want to help, they can do so in that thread only.
I understand how too many newbs can clutter up a forum pretty quick. But a lot of this stuff even after searching and reading still leaves a lot of questions, until you absorb the whole concept of this phone/os/rooting culture.
If we don't help some of the new users, we will end up with more threads about how they bricked their phones and then the real flame wars will start.
Keep it in one area. It has to be dealt with, we can't ignore them. We all gain if we share some knowledge, but lay down some ground rules beforehand.
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I agree 100%. I was a newb before. But I always search first before posting. Even to this day, I 2X to make sure I searched correctly before posting on here.
droidkevlar said:
I agree 100%. I was a newb before. But I always search first before posting. Even to this day, I 2X to make sure I searched correctly before posting on here.
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you were a big help to me and without you i would be s.o.l.
the newbie thing isn't going away and dealing with it in a way that satisfies everyone makes the most sense.
I learned alot in the last few weeks. I pretty much spend all my time here now. I'm willing to help with some basic rooting tips for any of the real new guys.
You were right, this phone will consume your life!
I has a question.
What is rootz? and hows to I gets it??
No thanks. I've been using the internet long enough to know that people don't change and that being a **** about things doesn't help anyone. I'd rather actually provide something for the community other than "USE THE SEARCH" and tell them what they need to know while reminding them that the search function would have just saved everyone the time.
If you really care that much don't go into their topics, this is hardly a bustling forum with a thousand posts an hour clogging the thing, a few **** topics where someone gets confused really has no effect on us. YES they should learn, but like I said being a **** does nothing about it.
My 2 cents.
P.S. I love your themes.
P.S.S. I always used the search lol
Hungry Man said:
No thanks. I've been using the internet long enough to know that people don't change and that being a **** about things doesn't help anyone. I'd rather actually provide something for the community other than "USE THE SEARCH" and tell them what they need to know while reminding them that the search function would have just saved everyone the time.
If you really care that much don't go into their topics, this is hardly a bustling forum with a thousand posts an hour clogging the thing, a few **** topics where someone gets confused really has no effect on us. YES they should learn, but like I said being a **** does nothing about it.
My 2 cents.
P.S. I love your themes.
P.S.S. I always used the search lol
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Check out Kaosfroyo thread....now tell me that out of those 4k+ post, 1k or so isnt dumb questions being asked over and over and over. That is just 1 thread. They feel entitled and dont want to search. Its the same kids that blamed devs for them putting leak on their phones and not letting them have root until now. This was more of a rant more than anything. As I have grown feed up with reading the same thing over and over and over and over. Perfect example is my threads. Even though in big, bold, red letters saying dont flash via recovery my MM's, they complain. I mean, its plain as day and they still screw it up.
And thanks for liking my theme. Only reason I made a Froyo one is so many liked the OG Kevlar Mash.
KF as an example, half the posts in that topic if not more are literally just spam or talking about random ****. I don't care because whatever people are having a nice chat but if anything that's even worse because it's absolutely irrellevant to the topic. Like I said, I've got no problem with it and am up for a chat any time.
But I see what you're saying. There is a difference though between asking legitimate questions that can be answered with a search and asking dumb questions that have been answered right there in the topic, no search even required. There really isn't any excuse when people ask questions that are answered right in the first post. I hate all of the posts in the dev stick where it plainly says "DO NOT POST IN HERE UNLESS YOU ARE MAKING A SUGGESTION" and three people so far have actually posted there just asking random questions... it's a bit ridiculous.
I just feel like rather than telling someone off for asking a question it's best to just educate them and let them know how to use a forum. Not everyone is used to being on a forum after all.
Hungry Man said:
I just feel like rather than telling someone off for asking a question it's best to just educate them and let them know how to use a forum. Not everyone is used to being on a forum after all.
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I both agree and disagree with the arguments made here. Personally, I don't ask too many questions because I try to conduct thorough research on my own knowing that somewhere someone else has asked the question before and it must be answered somehow (which is why I don't post too much). I'm horrible at using the forum search, though. Google is much better and it will actually bring up XDA and AF forum posts in the search (amongst other items and forums so that's my search of choice).
Some people are not quite as "internet savvy" and I agree that many are lazy, however personally I think if you can't perform a simple google search you have no business messing with technology at all.
I understand people want to learn and sometimes if you're just starting out you don't know where to start in which case a simple tactfully answered question with a push in the right direction towards research resources would be much more appropriate than "use the search, newb" but generally you can differentiate those with a genuine willingness & aptitude to learn & who may just need some guidance, and those who are just too ignorant or lazy to guide themselves.
That's just my $0.02.
It doesn't matter how many times you tell people to search. If your on any forum at all there are always going to be lots of people posting multiple threads that have already been answered. I'm not saying its ok just inevitable.
Sent from my leaked rooted HTC Droid Eris with Sense-Able 3.1 using Swype
I am pretty much on the same page with digitaljeannie on this one. However, a lot of us gloss over the fact that a lot of people just don't know how to search for stuff, or are just absolutely not tech savvy at all. The idea of trying to do anything outside of "the norm" on something phone or computer oriented scares them. If computers are confusing to you, the last thing you want to do is start messing with programs and such that can potentially make your phone inoperable. I walked a gentleman through the process of rooting, and he absolutely could not take a step without me telling him what to do. He wasn't even sure what a zip file was, so trying to do command line prompts pretty much terrified him without someone being there to tell him what to put in, baby step, by baby step. Now, just because he was clueless, doesn't mean he shouldn't enjoy being rooted. Also, being good at searching for stuff is a skill that a lot of you might not even realize you are good at, as it seems natural. However, I have came across quite a few people who are intelligent in other things, but can't find stuff online worth a hoot. I'm often going behind people who say I can't find this info on such and such, and I'll have it in like 10 minutes. Sure there are tons of lazy people who want you to do the work, but it's a shame to paint the same broad stroke for everyone...
I don't think it's really fair to say "If you can't do one thing you shouldn't do the other." I mean I can barely manage a google maps search to get where I want to go but I can do minor programming and know more about hardware than anyone else I know. People shouldn't be stuck with an unrooted eris ever lol and whether they are into computers or not they should have the right to root it and use the phone the way they want to.
not for nothin..... this is the 4th seperate "rant" post Ive read this week on this very topic......... physician heal thyself
While all of you make very good points. I just feel like if they cant search or are too scared, then maybe like the other 70%+ people that dont root their phone, they shouldnt either. And if they complain about its functions, then they shouldnt have bought the phone. Get an iPhone or BlackBerry. Android OS is meant for tech savy ppl IMO. I love Android more than my wife but at work when they asked what phones to get, I said iPhone. Just because users here are not very smart...even thought they have PhD's, lol
I think the idea that Android OS is for the tech savy only is a bit of a dangerous rumor that's pretty unjustified. I went from not having any smartphone to going to android 1.6 and it really is quite userfriendly. Tap icon to open, tap and hold for more options, tap and drag to move; these are the basic movements that set the stage for the entire phone, there's nothing fancy.
Apple basically puts out to web blogs (*cough gizmodo endgadget cough*) these rumors that Android OS is far less user friendly than iOS but really anyone can figure it out very quickly.
iPhones are simpler only in the sense that they treat their users with super kiddy gloves, no true multitasking, one button, very simple functionality by removing complex functionality. But if you're an unrooted android user there's really very little you can do to mess up your phone that you could not already do to your iphone.
Hungry Man said:
I think the idea that Android OS is for the tech savy only is a bit of a dangerous rumor that's pretty unjustified. I went from not having any smartphone to going to android 1.6 and it really is quite userfriendly. Tap icon to open, tap and hold for more options, tap and drag to move; these are the basic movements that set the stage for the entire phone, there's nothing fancy.
Apple basically puts out to web blogs (*cough gizmodo endgadget cough*) these rumors that Android OS is far less user friendly than iOS but really anyone can figure it out very quickly.
iPhones are simpler only in the sense that they treat their users with super kiddy gloves, no true multitasking, one button, very simple functionality by removing complex functionality. But if you're an unrooted android user there's really very little you can do to mess up your phone that you could not already do to your iphone.
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Let me re-word that. The ERIS is for more of the tech savy. Reason I say that is because it is kind of a slow phone stock. Once rooted, bloatware removed and OC'd, it rocks.
I gotcha =p
Related
Hello fellow members.
As a mod to this Forum, i have opened this thread to address issues faced by the users related to this sub-forum. No problems related to the device will be entertained in this thread.
all users are requested to put forward their issues in this thread and i shall look into it and do the best to put away with ne such issues.
cheers.
Currently I am going through each and every post of the android development sub-sub-forum..
i think i have to delete many posts and clean up a lot of the threads.
i'll do that as soon as i m over with going through the forum..
cvchetan said:
Currently I am going through each and every post of the android development sub-sub-forum..
i think i have to delete many posts and clean up a lot of the threads.
i'll do that as soon as i m over with going through the forum..
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Hi cvchetan,
to my opinion this is a not needed Sisyphean task.
You'd have to clean thousands of useless posts and flame wars.
The main Problem is, that there are lots of users that start threads again and again without using the forums search.
And: Some People cross post in wrong threads so that the threads go off topic very soon.
Also flaming and swearing against some people is a main problem.
(That's why most X10-Root-Devs gone private).
I'd say: from now, keeping the eyes open and moderate here and there, as you began recently, would be enough to keep this Kindergarten under control...
McKebapp said:
Hi cvchetan,
to my opinion this is a not needed Sisyphean task.
You'd have to clean thousands of useless posts and flame wars.
The main Problem is, that there are lots of users that start threads again and again without using the forums search.
And: Some People cross post in wrong threads so that the threads go off topic very soon.
Also flaming and swearing against some people is a main problem.
(That's why most X10-Root-Devs gone private).
I'd say: from now, keeping the eyes open and moderate here and there, as you began recently, would be enough to keep this Kindergarten under control...
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wel that is indeed a good idea...
but then we need to remove unwanted posts and threads so tht the threads become useful to any new members or visitors as they do not have to read through all unwanted data..
cvchetan said:
wel that is indeed a good idea...
but then we need to remove unwanted posts and threads so tht the threads become useful to any new members or visitors as they do not have to read through all unwanted data..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about just making the most useful one sticky, clean the waste out of them and close them?
So this ones would be the reference.
Within first post could a link to a discussion thread.
This behavior works very well over at gsmfreeboard.com .
My Idea: put all good guides into an own sub category "Guides".
These Guides should be closed. If there are any increments, these Posts / Threads could be opened for a short period of time.
They can be edited by the thread starter / poster anyways.
Then there should be a second sub category "Discussion on Guides", where common users can ask everything, regarding the posts.
I have a suggestion for a new sub-forum. Something along the lines of "X10 Café" where the discussions could be informal for more general ramblings about the X10. I hesitate to call it off-topic since the topic would be the X10. Think of it like a free-for-all with general decency rules, no flaming, no personal attacks but an otherwise open place where we can air grievances or just toss around ideas.
That way general can be more about news, events and so on while the speculation and what have you goes on in the Café. It would make keeping up with the forum a lot easier since it should be a place that you don't really "have" to read.
well i like both the ideas..
lemme consult with my fellow mods for futher actions..
Maybe you can stick a link to the Wiki X10 Page and edit this Wiki page to add links to useful posts in the forum ?
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=SonyEricssonXperiaX10
imo this forums needs some temp/permanent banning, plain and simple. I read threads here every day since I have the x10, and I have to agree with many people here, some users just don't understand patience, don't understand how to use the search options and then they have to cry out loud for something they want now but they cannot provide any help so they keep posting useless replies in every 'used to be' useful threads.
The 'Café' kind of forum is a nice idea too, to me it sounds a lot like the general discussion forum but still, the mods should do anything to keep the good discussions going.
Going back to the dark lurking around, WAITING for the good stuff without acting like a 12yo, and I'll give some money for the hard work, whatever i can give, until then keep up the good work guys
I started reading on XDA since 2 weeks when I bought my first droid phone (the X10 obviously ). This is my first post though because for every question I had i was able to find the answer in the forums.
The real PITA was when I started reading the rooting and custom rom dev threads where seriously 80% of the posters are either off topic, flaming or simply asking questions that already have been asked AND answered earlier.
As previous poster said I wouldn't mind that mods would apply temp bans to flamers and off topic poster or even perm bans when people continue to do so.
I did read in another x10 subforum that there was a X10 mod appointed (dunno if there are more than one), but unfortunately haven't seen much of that person specifically on those rooting and rom dev threads where they would have been most wanted.
It is nice to see that you are now taking the time to get something constructive going on. Regarding current topics it probably will be too much effort cleaning those up so it might be better to simply close those topics, start new ones and apply some stricter modding on those (including the temp/perm bans).
I sure would love to see the x10 devs coming back to these forums to discuss there progress on the X10 rooting for example, but they won't unless something is really done against these unnecesarry flaming/off topic/unnecesarry questions posts.
Regards,
Stephan
PS as soon as I have something in my paypal account again I will donate something towards this forum for the good work you guys are doing
we are too many, so dont blame anybody... things are like they're
FRiKiNFRoG said:
imo this forums needs some temp/permanent banning, plain and simple. I read threads here every day since I have the x10, and I have to agree with many people here, some users just don't understand patience, don't understand how to use the search options and then they have to cry out loud for something they want now but they cannot provide any help so they keep posting useless replies in every 'used to be' useful threads.
The 'Café' kind of forum is a nice idea too, to me it sounds a lot like the general discussion forum but still, the mods should do anything to keep the good discussions going.
Going back to the dark lurking around, WAITING for the good stuff without acting like a 12yo, and I'll give some money for the hard work, whatever i can give, until then keep up the good work guys
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+1 here also i feel that you are talking about me
guys.. what i see here is that you people are posting suggestions rather than problems.
regarding feelings abt hoss_n2, this is what i analysed.
Hoss_n2 seems to be clean at heart and intentions but the wording he uses are kinda direct and might make sumone feel he is demanding. but guys as long as intentions are not wrong no need to attack him..
more over by pointing out that hoss_n2 is doing this, this and bla bla you people too are flaming and remember these forum rules apply to you aswell..
so please keep your calm and help people rather than critisize them.
on the rooting forum i will be deleting all the posts not related to rooting..
cheers..
cvchetan said:
guys.. what i see here is that you people are posting suggestions rather than problems.
regarding feelings abt hoss_n2, this is what i analysed.
Hoss_n2 seems to be clean at heart and intentions but the wording he uses are kinda direct and might make sumone feel he is demanding. but guys as long as intentions are not wrong no need to attack him..
more over by pointing out that hoss_n2 is doing this, this and bla bla you people too are flaming and remember these forum rules apply to you aswell..
so please keep your calm and help people rather than critisize them.
on the rooting forum i will be deleting all the posts not related to rooting..
cheers..
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thanks allot you are the only one here that understands me right . may be i cannot say what i really mean with writing as english is not my main language , but they don't give me any chance . sorry for going out of topic but i wanted to illustrate my point . good luck cleaning
I'm not pointing at anyone in particular as I only read threads and rarely look at who posted. My point wasn't to accuse anyone. But warning to off topics and complainers should be sent, failing to change their behavior should lead to more action.
Yes these are more suggestions than issues we have, but I think most of the people know what are the issues. The main one being 'talking in a thread about anything'. Most of the useful threads have a self-explanatory title, reading the original post usually tells a user where he wants to go with the thread he created.
I know some might 'sound' harsh or rude but personally I don't really mind that as long as it does not become a flaming war/troll feeding discussion. But keeping a discussion on the right direction is probably the most important thing in such a huge forum. Then the search tool comes handy when the discussion is going one way.
Warning/temp/perm banning. Sending public message to people saying 'please stop' is not going to work. A temp ban with a nice message included stating what he did wrong should be effective in most cases. Failing to comply after 'x' warnings/temp ban, bye bye we do not need you (They can still read threads, they'll just stop posting what devs don't need).
I'm not pissed or angry at anyone, I'm just one of those people who thinks that moderation is important. The easier/cleaner it is for everyone, the faster we'll get the good news/progress. This site is one big community, let's make it look good/the best there is.
well.. right now m cleaning up threads and rest assured that all off topic posts, flames wars will be stopped from now on..
lets get ourselves together and make this forum productive..
cheers
Maybe issue warning on some fanatic on this forum, some people are extremely rude for no reason, acting like their keyboard and mouse give them God like power.
Realize lots of people have limited knowledge and are trying to get some information. When you see the reaction of some user…bashing on them saying search first idiot there a post about it .Maybe you should realize some of them just don’t know what they have to search. Why not just point them in the proper direction and help them , it would make this forum way more attractive.
Cnrl said:
Maybe issue warning on some fanatic on this forum, some people are extremely rude for no reason, acting like their keyboard and mouse give them God like power.
Realize lots of people have limited knowledge and are trying to get some information. When you see the reaction of some user…bashing on them saying search first idiot there a post about it .Maybe you should realize some of them just don’t know what they have to search. Why not just point them in the proper direction and help them , it would make this forum way more attractive.
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you are right i see this usless replies not only here but on all forums ,why don't he just tell the answer ,new members don't think about search they are still new when i was juinor member i faced allot of these replies . if any body don't want to help just don't reply
Pointing the right direction if you can yes, not answering like an a**hole to a newcomer yes. But there is nothing wrong about telling them politely to search, we might know there is a thread on a subject, but pointing them to the right direction is also searching for them in some/most cases. All forums work pretty much the same, joining one means learning how to use it/navigate it.
Search is the biggest tool there is on the internet. This is how you find what you want, this is how you find answers. Internet is full of it. The faster you start, the more stuff you'll get out of it.
BTW: Answering like a a**hole to a newcomer is also worthy of warnings and ban. It's part of the issue too.
I'm all about common sense.
You can generally class users in 3 categories. The devs, the supporters, and the noobs. The devs are resourceful enough to not care, because they'll always find a way to get things done. The supporters have kinda a clue about what's going on, and are always trying to enforce rules to keep the noobs in order. The noobs almost always assume a hierarchy of power, try to suck up, seek attention, and post ridiculous amounts of crap to get out of trouble/sound smart/kiss ass.
So understanding this dynamics, devs really don't care about flaming and junk, they just want to get product out. Supporters need to learn to refrain, not feed the troll and stop thinking they are better than noobs. Noobs usually just chat amongst themselves if left alone, and are mostly harmless.
The only thing that need to happen here is a set of clear guidelines for noobs to read about when to post, where to post, and when not to post. Also, clean up the place from its state now so people don't get the idea that it's okay to post crap. Maybe a reminder (after submission of a post) for users with low post count to remind them useless junk are indeed useless and bin-worthy.
Sorry I missed the town hall meeting. I am a noob to Roms and phone moding, I did do a lot with the original xbox back when it was fun to mod. Ok a little off toppic.
One thing that noticed you never looked at is where are your noobs (me) comming in to your site? I have only been looking at roms for about a week. All of the searches that I did about roms and rooting my phone all led me to the "The Bible" and yes where is that located at. Most people will post there they find the information. You might look at moving that post to the general tab as this is going to be one of the first places that a person is going to look to first.
This will also be a place that a noob is going to post so dumb question for the 1,000,000th time. If you expect it, it will not be a bad thing.
And yes I did to a bad flash and spent about 5 hours looking for a way to fix what I did.
Thanks for your time and have a great day/night
Good point. I myself was thinking when I first started to look into flashing ROMs and such and found the bible in the Dev section. The Vibrant Bible has lots of information and should probably be in the General Section as it does draw people to the Dev section instead of General.
Maybe it should be in the Q&A forum as it has lots of both.
One of the biggest problems with this forum seems to be that for a development forum, there is very little actual development going on. Obviously only a select group of people have the knowledge and desire to truly develop custom ROMs, but there's a role others can take too.
I've been involved in other development communities, outside of Android, and I can't recall a community as poisonous as this one. The amount of high level technical discussion is nill. As inexperienced as I am with Android, I can't remember the last post that sent me running to google to read more about something. There seems to be little to no give-and-take between developers, which is typically the most fun of any development group I've been a part of. The goal of working towards any common framework seems non-existant.
The supporters of certain ROMs resemble cults more than critical, helpful users. I can't count the amount of replies I've seen to legitimate questions or criticisms saying nothing more than, "Developer X puts in all this time, so you should just be thankful", or some iteration of that. While possibly true, that's the type of worthless hero worship that provides nothing in a community like this.
Even the individual developer forums are worthless. They're 75% "you're awesome" posts, with the other 25% being bug reports.
Obviously the popularity of XDA has made it a destination for simple support posts in addition to development discussion. I guess that's frustrating, but can be handled through moderation. I know on other forums, if I had nothing to do, I'd sit in the help section and answer posts for a couple hours. I'm sure we've all posted on other forums and received helped we're thankful for. Certainly the level of douchebagery that half the users here show isn't needed.
I don't know. Maybe all Android communities are like this. The fragmentation of the development, even on one divice, definitely doesn't help. But it's not the most enjoyable place to read I've ever found.
This is all you need to know:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9831517&postcount=3
The town hall closed too soon, closed 5pm eastern time. Sucks for us on the west coast. I was actually typing and clicked send when I noticed the forum already was closed.
scrizz said:
This is all you need to know:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9831517&postcount=3
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I am sorry that is not all that I needed to know. This was a post for an idea that was not brough up in the town hall. yes I did read the full town hall and no it was never said in the full thread. So before you give a link please make sure of the Question.
That is another reason that you get people pissed off. You have people say "this is all that I need to know" but they did not even look at the full question. This was not a question of what happened in the town hall. It was more like please think of this.
The Bilble thread is a great place for people that are new to star reading about what to do and what not to do. but it really does not have a thing to do about develement.
Thanks for all the other posters I enjoyed the coments.
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
Get your flame suit on cause you're about to get toasted for this thread.
But I agree with you. I'm kinda tired of the attitude here but this has been my home for 2 years and I don't plan on leaving. I wish people would drop the attitudes and be more helpful sometimes. It is what it is though. I just turn a blind eye to it.
Cheers
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
I dont care about being flamed. I see others get flamed all the time on here. If someone is going to post another smart ass comment to my post then they should not bother. I understand people are people and I am not going anywhere either. But it just gets old...
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
I'm normally really quiet on here unless I have some constructive comment or help those that are in need who really need it.
But, the main problem for all the noob question is the lack of direction for noobs to find the info they really need to seek out. Common problem on any type of forum, but is part of how community forums work. Microsoft's community does a good job in controlling this with great help with constructive help on posts given by the moderators and links from others who shared the same type of problem.
Just my 2 pence worth.
Simba501 said:
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
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You just hit the nail on the head!
capathy21 said:
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
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The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
I have noticed this and commented on it in other threads also. The forum has went to **** the past few months.
I have been on this account for almost 3 years on here and 2 before that with another account so i have seen the changes. The reason there are so many newbs and questions is because Android and tablet use has exploded in the past year and half.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
People can be assholes. Yes, most of the time it is uncalled for. i try to help when I can, because I hope someone will help me when I need it. But, at the same time, people need to learn to try to help themselves. See my sig.
We were all newbs at one point - even still, it's expected that everyone, newb and veteran alike are to read the rules and use the search function.
It's all well and good that someone makes an honest mistake by posting the same threads over again, but when it happens by every Joe Blow that comes in here, two or more times a week, and there's already 10 threads on the same topic, and said person never thought to use the search function, has **** grammar and syntax even asking their question or making a "Galaxy S II vs. ?" for the 18th time, it pisses those of us off that actually used our brain when we came here.
See, you got it all wrong: XDA wasn't made for you and I - it is a DEVELOPER'S forum. They were kind enough to let the average user sign up, expecting us to be knowledgeable enough not to be asshats that make a hundred of the same threads. Being self-entitled, thinking that the users who want to keep the developers actually developing, not answering bull**** questions for the 15th time are in the wrong for being firm, even harsh with people that don't, then there's the door. You either help the developers or get out of the way. If the developers or power users are kind enough to help answer certain questions once or twice, then count it as a blessing. DON'T even get mad when those people are then annoyed because the newb doesn't abide by rules or use their brain.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
votinh said:
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
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When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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I did not post this to "whine". I posted it because if I am reading something I get sick of smart ass responses. It may have been a developer only forum at one time but it no longer is. I along with many other people here are in no way developers, but know a little bit about it compared to the average joe and want to learn more. I greatly appreciate the hard working devs who donate their time and genius minds so that we can get the most out of our devices. Its not my first rodeo on a device forum by any means. They are designed for people to help others and learn. There is no place for the attitude. Period.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
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I've been on XDA for a little over a year, I think...ever since I got the captivate. I think I may have 1 or 2 posts in the development forum and 10 or 11 in the general forums. I have spent countless hours searching, reading, searching some more and reading some more until I got the answer I needed for my particular question. Almost 100% of the issues people ask about have been answered before.
That said, I think you're off of on a couple of your bolded comments. This is just as much of a consumer forum as it is a developers forum. The developers themselves have made it that way.
Nearly all google searches about android issues point to some XDA thread. Developers work hard and are often times compensated for their work (donations.) Although, I do not think the main driving force for their hard work is donations. They do it because they love it and they want to share their work with the CONSUMERS that frequent this site.
Flaming an unsuspecting consumer, who may not have done enough research on their own, into oblivion only has negative effects. That person may be a donator that decides to leave, for example. I've used the forum search on a number of occasions and to be honest, it is quite cumbersome...there is just so much data to go through. That doesn't stop me but it is quite frustrating some times.
I think a more effective strategy for dealing with consumers, who may not be as diligent at researching as most, would be to simply ignore the post. This will force them to do more research on their own. Now, you have a user who does more research on their own and you don't look like a ****.
Flaming is pointless. Those that do it are jerks.
Shammyh said:
When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
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Yup, in addition to one of the links in my sig being STRONGLY recommended reading:
Whenever I purchase a device, I always spend at least an hour or two a day for 2-3 days reading the forums for that device to learn its ins and outs before I post ANYTHING. Actually, in many cases, I do that before even purchasing.
XDA has clearly stated rules, and Rule #1 is to search before posting. In addition, any new users has to watch the infamous "Noob on XDA" video as part of the registration process now.
So there is NO excuse for not searching. Especially when a user posts a new thread with:
1) A question from the FAQ - it is there for a reason
2) A question that has already been covered in MULTIPLE topics that are still on the first 1-2 pages of the forum. It takes 30 seconds to skim through a page of thread titles - but users insist that someone else spend 2-3 minutes digging up a thread for them instead of spending a minute to read thread titles.
Yes, sometimes we can spend almost as much time on the flame - but at least that lets us relieve our stress at yet another user who thinks they deserve special treatment and doesn't have to follow the rules.
Edit: As to just ignoring a post - A user that didn't bother to search won't go away. They'll do something even more annoying like creating yet another NEW thread, posting a thread in Development because it wasn't answered in General or Q&A, or bumping their thread after only 12 hours. They only way they'll learn any lesson is to get a little toasty.
While donations are nice, the kind of user who comes with the kind of sense of self-entitlement that gets them flamed isn't going to donate anyway. Plus I could get quadruple the donations I've received in 3 months, and I'd still wind up with less than half a week's pay at my real job.
The amount of time one will spend searching and reading will be FAR less than the time you waste because you didn't read and screwed something up.
"Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life." (Yeah, I mangled that slightly...)
This is a DEVELOPERS forum, it always has been and always will be. Without developers, it's no different than Android Central or any other forum.
Ok there wouldnt be anyone giving noobs attitude if they just followed the rules. **** they even make you watch a video b4 becoming a member here. If you have a question chances are someone has already asked/answered it. There is a search bar for a reason. USE IT! If not the by all means go ahead and post Im 100% sure you wont get **** for it. They even have a suggested thread dropdown when creating a new one, hoping someone sees that there has already been a threat opened pertaining to that particular subject. Its frustrating to other uzers who read these fourms day in and day out seeing some kid with one post asking the same question someone had already posted 3 times now. simply put quit being lazy and search just like everyone else here has b4 they asked a question.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
bigblue95z said:
And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
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Uhh, most of the developers and users here couldn't care less how "big" XDA is. And second, as Entropy512 pointed out, most devs don't care tremendously about donations. Yea, when I really like something, or have some extra cash, I'll kick a developer a few extra bucks. But it's not really about donations or popularity. And I don't think a single Dev here is actually living off of the donations from XDA users...
And further... if you check my post history, you'd see I in fact do try to "teach people to fish" all the time. And more often than not, I'll just answer a n00b question rather than flame. And yes, the Forum search isn't the best, hence why a Google "site:xda-developers.com YourSearchTermHere" is a useful alternative.
XDA is not a n00b friendly forum. If you're a new user looking to learn about Android or phones or whatever for the first time... there are other places to do that. It's called "xda-DEVELOPERS" for a reason.
Devs have holier that thou attitudes. They act like they shouldn't be bothered by stupid nub questions. Yet they feel compelled to answer them and ***** about doing so...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
use the search function and this will not happen.
/thread
I'm writing here because I haven't posted enough to post in the developement section. I have had my pad since they came out. I've rooted and hacked almost every electronic device I've ever had, going back to my Timex Sinclair. I read the delevopement posts numerous times a day. I've flashed this more times than I dare to count (very, very few issues, so few infact, sold my A500). So I go into the developement thread, some guy has asked a question regarding an issue he's having and the response he gets...(I'm paraphrasing), "If you had bothered to read....you wouldn't even of asked". It wasn't even a question of having wifi issues! This person (and others) take the time to go after someone who is asking a ligitimate question (at least in their own mind), and heaven forbid they didn't read all 500 plus posts and that's the response, that's all you got. I've donated, will continue to donate and continue to be amazed at what Leo and the group have done, but I won't ever ask a question on this forum. Maybe it's just a way to get their "Post" numbers up (it's working for me). I read many posts about how great this group is, and yet we need to blast folks...those of you that do so must be the same folks driving up and down HWY 41 everyday! I'm done...now I have two posts. Oh and thanks Leo, more $ on it's way!
So you think the Touchpad mods suck? Or you think requiring 10 posts before posting in development sucks?
Personally I think 80% of what gets posted in development isn't development. IMO hail to the TP mods for getting the Q and A section added!
If you wanna post in development, go actually contribute by answering questions.
The 10 post rule is to weed out spammers. It isn't hard to get 10 legit helpful posts.
Sent from something with a Ｋモ尺れモㄥ.
Jwoc12 said:
I'm writing here because I haven't posted enough to post in the developement section. I have had my pad since they came out. I've rooted and hacked almost every electronic device I've ever had, going back to my Timex Sinclair. I read the delevopement posts numerous times a day. I've flashed this more times than I dare to count (very, very few issues, so few infact, sold my A500). So I go into the developement thread, some guy has asked a question regarding an issue he's having and the response he gets...(I'm paraphrasing), "If you had bothered to read....you wouldn't even of asked". It wasn't even a question of having wifi issues! This person (and others) take the time to go after someone who is asking a ligitimate question (at least in their own mind), and heaven forbid they didn't read all 500 plus posts and that's the response, that's all you got. I've donated, will continue to donate and continue to be amazed at what Leo and the group have done, but I won't ever ask a question on this forum. Maybe it's just a way to get their "Post" numbers up (it's working for me). I read many posts about how great this group is, and yet we need to blast folks...those of you that do so must be the same folks driving up and down HWY 41 everyday! I'm done...now I have two posts. Oh and thanks Leo, more $ on it's way!
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Hello there.
Trust me I understand the frustration. I don't like it much either. But the monster has been created and we need to tame it. The bigger question is how.
I personally don't like building up thread counts and can attribute a ton of posts are not dev related.
One idea I'm working on is cleaning up the OP with more usable content to help the new comers and help guide those that are not. I am working on a Q&A link that will be a PDF that helps shine light on some of the problems we have. Also there is room for me to make a very initiative installation guide in PDF form for people to print and have the ability to make notes to help guide thru the process.
While people jump the gun and are on attack mode at times, many times they aren't. The thread is so large its hard to even search for answers so that's where I get the point. I hope you don't let ur frustrations stop you from using the rom.
I also plan on talking to a few people that can help answer via pm. This will take the load off.
I appreciate ur feedback and support and just know that 99% of the guys are good folks.
Have a good one
~leo
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
"So you think the Touchpad mods suck? Or you think requiring 10 posts before posting in development sucks?"
Didn't say either...point was, I couldn't respond directly in the development forum...
"If you wanna post in development, go actually contribute by answering questions."
That's just funny....proves my point, somewhat (though I guess I didn't ask a question). I can't "contribute" for 2 reasons; first, don't have enough posts, second, don't know enough. That's why I go there numerous times a day, to try and learn. Someday, I hope I can contribute. Right now I do it with my pocket book. (Is that one word or two?). However, if you ever need help with an insurance claim, I can knock your socks off!
Seriously and thank you again as usual Leo. I know the vast majority of folks are trying to be helpful. There are a few right now though that post a lot and many of those posts are not helpful, just rude (I had a tough day at work, try managing an insurance claims dept, talk about rude). Sorry about the 500 too, should have read more carefully...
I'm typing this on my computer. I just started getting "FCs" with the XDA app, not kidding... what are the chances...suppose I got what I deserved...
Everyone, have a great weekend.
I know of the posts you're referring too, and most of the reason why we're getting aggravated is because most of the answers can be found in the OP of the thread. It's gets really old when we're told 15 times a day that wifi doesn't work.
Sent from my GT-i9100 (faux Touchpad) using Tapatalk.
Ill tell you whats equally annoying. When you subscribe to a Dev thread to see when something gets updated, and you get an email notification every time someone responds with "cant wait" or "me too" or "this+1". I understand people are excited, Im excited for it too, but its seems people just like posting for the sake of posting. If I was a dev trying to follow what problems people were having, Id pull my hair out trying to weed through all the nonsense.
And now for the ever so annoying....."end rant." (hate that equally)
I'd like to agree with all the points made here and also refer to the video azrienoch made a while ago referring to noobs. Some posters thinking they have enough posts to ignore basic etiquette. Its actually better to sit on the sidelines and learn rather than post unnecessary things. I feel like it's a good idea to ponder your post to consider if you can find the answer another way, post in a more topic related thread or just render the post useless.
Sent from my lil electrify
I fully understand getting aggravated. Again, 30 + years in insurance claims, heard it all. The question is how do we show/express that aggravation. My "job" includes dealing with aggravation/frustration in a professional manner. Dealing with my wife, my kids and now grand kids. I must show restraint. I understand this isn't your job, and in my opinion, even more reason to show restraint and compassion. Who cares if a person hasn't read all the posts (and weeded through all the superfluous stuff as mentioned above (agree by the way). Maybe they missed it, maybe they didn't understand it, maybe they work 12 hours a day and don't have the time to read every post and are simply looking to "friends" to give them a hand. There are a lot more important things to get aggravated about. And Krunk (can I call you Krunk?), I've read a lot of your posts, you can be extremely helpful and your are obviously extremely knowledgeable. Use your powers for good! I'm a good guy, I mean no disrespect. I do understand all the experienced folks getting annoyed with the same questions. I need to practice what I preach and show some grace (patience and understanding) to those on HWY 41 (between Fresno and Yosemite). Again, thanks for listening. Now I have to figure out how to remove the Rom, update WebOS (can't we just get rid of that....I know, I know, asked answered ) and put Rom back on. Take care all.
Thar
slicedcheese said:
I'd like to agree with all the points made here and also refer to the video azrienoch made a while ago referring to noobs. Some posters thinking they have enough posts to ignore basic etiquette. Its actually better to sit on the sidelines and learn rather than post unnecessary things. I feel like it's a good idea to ponder your post to consider if you can find the answer another way, post in a more topic related thread or just render the post useless.
Sent from my lil electrify
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That Azrienoch video is great. He put a lot of time in making that one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvCpR45LKA
I understand what u meen op and i wanna help people out too but 90% of the stuff on those forums is flying on the internet and noone cares to search. Just google it. Tthats the first place i look at and 9/10 times the answer is there. Also if u really want to help someone out and you acnt because u got restricted send them a PM and carry on. This way u help the guy out and dont spend 1h arguing with somebody over something offtopick.
Sent from my HTC Ruby using XDA App
Dubble post
Jwoc12 said:
I fully understand getting aggravated. Again, 30 + years in insurance claims, heard it all. The question is how do we show/express that aggravation. My "job" includes dealing with aggravation/frustration in a professional manner. Dealing with my wife, my kids and now grand kids. I must show restraint. I understand this isn't your job, and in my opinion, even more reason to show restraint and compassion. Who cares if a person hasn't read all the posts (and weeded through all the superfluous stuff as mentioned above (agree by the way). Maybe they missed it, maybe they didn't understand it, maybe they work 12 hours a day and don't have the time to read every post and are simply looking to "friends" to give them a hand. There are a lot more important things to get aggravated about. And Krunk (can I call you Krunk?), I've read a lot of your posts, you can be extremely helpful and your are obviously extremely knowledgeable. Use your powers for good! I'm a good guy, I mean no disrespect. I do understand all the experienced folks getting annoyed with the same questions. I need to practice what I preach and show some grace (patience and understanding) to those on HWY 41 (between Fresno and Yosemite). Again, thanks for listening. Now I have to figure out how to remove the Rom, update WebOS (can't we just get rid of that....I know, I know, asked answered ) and put Rom back on. Take care all.
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Everyone calls me Krunk
I put my FAQ in my signature to help with most questions regarding the Touchpad
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Jwoc12, I re read what you wrote and just want to say thanks for reminding me of when I first got my OG Droid back in the day. I've always been good with tech, I'm even a 2ND level network admin, but boy do I remember feeling over whelmed just rooting Froyo back then, haha.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
I agree with the rants on both sides in this thread.
I understand the need to "weed out the newbs", but 10 posts doesn't make someone think any more than not having 10 posts makes them brainless.
On the on other hand, it will weed out those who just want to show up and quickly troll (you have to be a dedicated troll to get past the restriction).
I've been frustrated many, many times with the fact that I cannot respond to questions that I know I can answer... one I answered via pm, but I don't think the person ever noticed.
One thing I find extremely confusing is how people are getting around these limits.
I've seen more than a few posts in the XRON dev thread by people with only 2 or 3 posts! (yet another just showed up, asking a question that I can answer)
It honestly wouldn't take more than a few minutes to post 10 things on the entire XDA site if you're that concerned.
Posting in the developers threads is for developers or people troubleshooting development issues, you sound like you just want to throw your 2 cents in and have everyone tell you how great you are.
mini rant
While I understand your frustration I just can not agree with you on several comments you made. The thread that you are speaking about is extremely long as you stated. You stated yourself that you read every post and go through pages of posts per day. And let me say that I thank you for doing the right thing and reading everything before posting.
I do work 10 hour days and while yes it would be easier for me to rude and just ask a question in the middle of a thread that has already been answered or addressed I dont do it. Why? Its rude and lazy. These extra posts waste everyone's time because everyone that follows the thread has that many more post to read and go through. Its a huge waste of time.
I hate to go on a little mindless rant but I do not like the way of thinking that people have today. Its a me first attitude. They dont read whats already posted or google it(which takes 2 seconds). Instead they cut off the flow of the post or conversation to ask a question that is not relevant or has already been answered.
I myself have yet to ask a question. Why? Am I super smart? NO I am not. But by reading the posts and googling what I had trouble finding I was able to find my answers.
Ok sorry about my rant. Everyone can go back to what they were doing. I just had to get this out as I have seen way too much of this lately.
theniel said:
It honestly wouldn't take more than a few minutes to post 10 things on the entire XDA site if you're that concerned.
Posting in the developers threads is for developers or people troubleshooting development issues, you sound like you just want to throw your 2 cents in and have everyone tell you how great you are.
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It's not obvious which one of us you're responding to, but it is moderately obvious that you're trolling, but I'll bite anyways just in case you're actually serious (and referring to me).
XDA, even in the general section, when you're under 10 posts, limits you to 1 post per 5 minutes (this includes editing your own posts for accuracy, which is how I found out). So much for your "only a few minutes" theory.
You obviously haven't read the XDA dev thread at all (I've read > 95% of the posts in that thread) or you wouldn't be posting such a reply about the purpose of the thread.
The frustrating question I was referring to that I wanted to answer wasn't for glory (are you serious?), it was to stem the 2 day flood of useless answers this poor person received (half were unhelpful, the others were flaming, leaving this poor person extremely frustrated). Not one person gave the reply I ended up sending the person in a PM, but the thread was derailed (for at least the hundredth time) extensively with a very non-development-related topic. My intent was solely to stem this and bring the thread back on topic.
First let me clarify, my comment or "title" ...10 posts was simply to say I could not post what I was about to say in the developement section....nothing to do with the rule. It is what it is...If I could think of 10 important things to say, it would not be difficult to get to 10 posts. What I was trying to say and what is now happening even in this little tread is that is it really necessary to go after folks for voicing an opinion or asking a question etc. Again, using my silly analogy, some "fool" is tailgating my butt down HWY 41 (with a line of cars all doing 65 (55 posted) and finally pulls out and around (scarring the crap out of the guy coming the other way) just to get one car ahead. 5 minutes later were right next to each other at the light (HWY 41 and 145 (google it)). What's the point. How pissed off do I really want to get? Just back off and let them go....folks complain about the continued same question (you say google, then why have the forum?), then we see pages of people pissed off, now people have to read through all that. For what it's worth, I've see a lot less of it recently in the dev forum, and that's a good thing...right? Let people ask their questions, point them in the right direction (or just let it go). Hey Krunk, I have the original droid, that was fun, son has it now, he's playing with MUIU. I remember setting up a "clean room" in my home back in the day to put additional memory in my Amiga 1000. I think I even put the cat in a hazmat suit! My wife still gives me grief over that. It's all about fun!
I would ask that if you have ideas on how to improve this forum please send me a PM. I have been moderator for th TP for just a couple weeks and I am cleaning things more everyday.
I remember a time when people were helpful on XDA. They would share knowledge, help others who know less. Unfortunately, those days are long gone.
I have referred many friends and acquaintances to XDA Developers, telling them there are many very experienced guys - and girls - who are happy to help you... It gives many of them the experience they need.
But a number of these people would tell me that the people on XDA are, basically, jerks! Rather than complain along with others, I hope to get through to at least one of you.
XDA began as a site where anyone with a specific handheld device could ask any question in order to get help...with any problem they would encounter. It grew and added other devices. Now XDA has become the most reputable go-to site for help with any kind of phone. If anyone knows anything about phones they know XDA Developers.
Guys, this should not be a place to show-off, or to be rude or intimidating. Often, there are people with questions, or need help, advice...and they don't know anything. These are the people who need help the most. Your help. Please treat people the way YOU would want to be treated when YOU did not know anything at all. That is all I ask.
Thank you.
If you ask nicely, in the right place, you'll get an answer.
The problem is when people come demanding this or that, being rude and asking questions in the wrong places.
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
my expirience is i been in 2 phone sections the skyrocket galaxy s2 and the lg g2.
in the s2 there were very helpful but when i came here i notice the same thing rather then getting help you get unnecessary post or answers.. or making fun of you or beign smartasses.. ive had a few arguments with some guys in here so they know who they are
the way i think is teach someone that someone will teach another, we are all different some will get it, and to some will be more difficult. instead ofa bogus post why not share link or type a helpful post.. then if you aint helping why post at all just ignore and go on with life..
CiscoKydd said:
I remember a time when people were helpful on XDA. They would share knowledge, help others who know less. Unfortunately, those days are long gone.
I have referred many friends and acquaintances to XDA Developers, telling them there are many very experienced guys - and girls - who are happy to help you... It gives many of them the experience they need.
But a number of these people would tell me that the people on XDA are, basically, jerks! Rather than complain along with others, I hope to get through to at least one of you.
XDA began as a site where anyone with a specific handheld device could ask any question in order to get help...with any problem they would encounter. It grew and added other devices. Now XDA has become the most reputable go-to site for help with any kind of phone. If anyone knows anything about phones they know XDA Developers.
Guys, this should not be a place to show-off, or to be rude or intimidating. Often, there are people with questions, or need help, advice...and they don't know anything. These are the people who need help the most. Your help. Please treat people the way YOU would want to be treated when YOU did not know anything at all. That is all I ask.
Thank you.
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As a moderator and very active member of this community I see a lot. There are threads that I participate in as a member and those are the most friendly, helpful threads. I am actually shocked at the helpfulness and politeness in spite of the fact that people asking the questions failed to read as close as 2 posts above which had their answer. More and more members have joined this community and do not want to read even the basic requirement of the OP of the thread before they attempt to modify their $600 device. Too many members want an answer NAO without having to go to the trouble of reading or searching a little. The very first rule asks all members who join to search first. When I joined in 2010, I read for a month before making my first post. XDA was not a help desk then. It was a place to share knowledge. This is two very different things. People who genuinely want help, how to theme, how to change something, how to know how to adjust a kernel and figure out the best setting for themselves...those people usually get the help they need. But people that refuse to read, expecting the members of the thread to do it for them...then ask a question in a development thread like "Do I need root for this?" Then proceed to ask to be spoon fed how to do it? This probably will annoy some members that have done a little reading. So yes, the site has changed...you can expect that with going from a million members in 2010 to 7 million now. And on the other hand we do have rules regarding member conduct as well, and members should respect the new members and guide them..make this the site they want it to be and once was. I understand what you are saying but I also see many sides of this. I see new members being rude, demanding answers, expecting someone to answer within an hour of their question, as well as the other side of someone rudely stating "Search!". So it is not just one sided. Unfortunately I see this as a sign of what society in general is becoming as we overpopulate this poor ball of dirt hurtling through space.
Thank you, KennyG123. I cannot disagree with anything you stated. In fact, it reminds me that I forgot to mention to new members that they be polite, also. I cannot help but to agree with you 100%. We all need a little reminder sometimes. So I hope that someone...anyone reads this and think about how they treat others. I need it, too!
Again, Thank you, KennyG123.
This thread should be a sticky
Enjoyed this thoroughly.
Been on since my little Frodo Sony Xperia mini x10i (what a name) and right here are the two sides of coin.
When I came on I knew nothing - and asked some dumb questions, and did the searches etc.
Many of those searches came back with stuff I could not understand. And some of the people reproducing this info were jerks - concerned only with obfuscation and an invitation to pm.
However, people were not rude, so eventually you find someone same level or a little higher and you're off.
Then suddenly the nicest thing happens - someone asks for help...and you CAN help. You recognise yourself and step in and it's good - EVEN IF just to remind them that the answer is on the page before, and sometimes searching first will help. And this without the eye-rolling condescension...you all know what I mean.
I too have referred people here, impressed with my 'knowledge', and I'm like, no, look, it's this great community of people......and then have them come back all discouraged and they may as well just stick to whatever the corporations foist on them.
Then on the other hand, a couple of years ago I noticed a proliferating of the other kind of jerk - you know them also.
Badgering the creator of a post for eta's with funny emoticons, I just cant wait, are we there yet, huh, are we there yet, and by the way do you think we'll be getting Smartie for our phones, and over on the 'other' device, they've got the code to overlay on Marshmallow to port to Smartie, their phones are so much better, and more whining, and maybe YOU can do the port, and are we there yet, I'll check back in an hour, and oh ya, how do I root yadiyada - there's a stickie, first post by the way.
That also is plain rude. There's a community, find out a little about it first, or read the phone manual at least.
For both instances I find one thing; real XDAers do not snap at people, don't jeez I wish you'd read something first, aren't put off by being referred to search either, won't make anyone feel like they're time here has been wasted, nor that anyone else is dumb, they've all been there.
These are the fakers, and posers, and always, ALWAYS, at the centre of some flame war.
Of course sometimes you want to voice your opinion on something and read others too so over-moderation kills the fun. There can be discretion, and it is clear when a discussion has gone from heated to just plain chest thumping - step away.
So, you know, use common sense.
Finally, just one more thing, I learnt good moderators are actually very helpful...For anything.
Pm something. They'll point you somewhere, guaranteed. Let them know if you feel like you're being bullied WITH A LINK to where this is happening and they'll show up and clean up the thread and keep safe. Though look, if YOU are the one stirring stuff up and then reporting, that too will be seen, and in my experience, that's looked at as a worse offence than just not searching first, so be sure.
Something HAS happened to the entire world of social internet that I find reprehensible. People have become rude simply because it makes them feel better to put someone else down in style.
I don't know when it happened exactly - and it's everywhere, Reddit, Facebook, wherever.
At XDA we can at least keep reminding people to just have a good time and don't be rude. Do whatever you like; research and grow or ask stupid questions, just don't be rude. We care about everyone on here.
We actually do.
Sent from my HUAWEI P7-L10 using XDA Premium HD app
CiscoKydd your thoughts are echoed by many on XDA. Heck we mods have the same thoughts from time to time.
This
CiscoKydd said:
XDA began as a site where anyone with a specific handheld device could ask any question in order to get help...with any problem they would encounter.
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actually wasn't the guise under which XDA was created. It was a site by developers for developers. There were many times when a Dev would tell people to F off but by in large (as it is today) many were willing to share their knowledge.
CiscoKydd said:
Guys, this should not be a place to show-off, or to be rude or intimidating.
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We simply call this group the entitled.. Ask them, they will tell you it is so:silly:
A big change implemented a few years ago on XDA, came about with this small group in mind. We call it the report system (explained here):good:
While we like to see this behemoth (XDA) run like a well oiled machine, there will always be a wrench thrown into the cog. We (moderators/admin of XDA) ask that you NOT let yourselves get dragged into the battle of wills. A simple report with a simple explanation (in said report) usually lets us deal with a situation with little, to no drama left behind in its wake.
CiscoKydd said:
Please treat people the way YOU would want to be treated when YOU did not know anything at all. That is all I ask.
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Cheers to that mate:good:
As membership continues to grow we can only hope that the few that read this remember why we are all here, to share and help others with what you know.
I have been "crying" to XDA for a number of years for help. I always got the help I needed. Most important, I got an education. There is more knowledge here on XDA than I could ever absorb! The hardest part was learning to search. But once I got over that hump I felt... Powerful!!
And I need to remind myself to be understanding, patient, respectful. You guys are right. It ain't easy sometimes. But XDA is a learning experience.
You guys are a good and knowledgeable bunch. Thanks. For everything.
I honestly feel this dependence on the question. I usually just look at topics rather then post in them, and I can see some people ask a certian question that other people regret as nubish, so suddenly they have "Nub mode" on. I just want them to remember that they, once upon a time were these so called noobs too.
Obviously this is not true about the majority of the people, just some.
Move this thread to "android general" or something, its useless to have it here
A short and good note mate ! but why here ?
Thanks for bringing this up.
Eminemiero said:
Move this thread to "android general" or something, its useless to have it here
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rajkatiyar07 said:
A short and good note mate ! but why here ?
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I assume the OP has a G2 and felt he would like to post his opinion on the subject in his general section.
This is fine:good:
TonyStark said:
Thanks for bringing this up.
I assume the OP has a G2 and felt he would like to post his opinion on the subject in his general section.
This is fine:good:
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No problem Mr. Stark !
Regards :- Jarvis
I don't know why but I really miss 2010 to 2012 gingerbread days
OP is right. I think this situation becomes because of release xda themes after 2010 version. I'am using 2010 theme and I think after 2010 themes are very compilcated and makes users nerveous and this is the reason why anyone not want to be help each other.
George Jetson said:
I don't know why but I really miss 2010 to 2012 gingerbread days
OP is right. I think this situation becomes because of release xda themes after 2010 version. I'am using 2010 theme and I think after 2010 themes are very compilcated and makes users nerveous and this is the reason why anyone not want to be help each other.
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Thats funny, I came here in 2013 and I think that theme's the best and everything else is complicated. I miss the kitkat days.
Alradaev said:
I honestly feel this dependence on the question. I usually just look at topics rather then post in them, and I can see some people ask a certian question that other people regret as nubish, so suddenly they have "Nub mode" on. I just want them to remember that they, once upon a time were these so called noobs too.
Obviously this is not true about the majority of the people, just some.
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I can't remember ever being flamed for making a noob question. One of my first posts on this site was a silly question in a dev thread and the developer (LenAsh) just answered it respectfully. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones but my noobishness was only ever met with kindness and help.
I don't think I've experienced any rudeness when I've (albeit rarely) asked any questions since I started my Android journey in early-mid 2014. Before that I was an iOS guy, before that a Final Fantasy XI guy (MMORPG, was a moderator for a while of one of the biggest FFXI websites created by my best friend), and so on and so on. All forums that are a bit on the nerdy/technical/gadgets side have a problem with rude people. Lest we not forget the adage that the delightful guys at Penny Arcade put into a perfect cartoon: regular person + anonymity (sometimes)= bag of douche.
Having been a moderator I understand the frustration occasionally felt by @KennyG123 and @TonyStark. Why are some people such freakin jerks, yet others will type the same thing 10,000 times just to feel like they've helped 10,000 people. Why do some people read and search and learn first for a while before asking anything, yet others will ask (and almost demand) to have their hand held at every. single. step.? Maybe it's human nature?
I'm all about helping and being nice. Online and off.
people tend to ask first read later or no read at all.
they just want to post the question then go and do their own thing, come back later to see the answer.
while the thread starter wasted their own time to type the multiple posts of information/FAQ.
and last, this post should not be in this section as this is not even android related.
you post the wrong question in the wrong section and you still hope to get an answer?
I've been on the HTC wildfire, Nexus 5, Nexus 7 2013, Nexus 9 and LG G2 threads and have always found the other XDA members to be most helpful, (even though I'm not a flashaholic.)
However, I do make sure to search before asking questions and can therefore understand the frustration of answering questions that have been asked many times before. :angel:
So true but it seems out side of the G2 forums, there are still good people.
I had a good experience in the nexus 6 forums, never once got asked to "search before asking" best part of it is that I don't even have a N6 and the question I asked was actually illegal/criminal, I didn't know that at the time and those members explained in detail why it was illegal without bring disrespectful to me.
I honestly blame mods for not being strict enough.
I brought up a few specific xda members that were out right harassing people and I presented my case with evidence of repeated harassment.
The mod told me that I was over reacting. I said that by not doing anything about it they were condoning the action.
I wanted to strangle that mod, completely worthless. Police that don't enforce.
If the mods would start banning the few that are bringing xda down, then the problem would be solved.
But they won't do anything!
Mods have their work cut out for them here and I know they are doing the best they can, but it's not focused correctly to rectify the problem.
Sent from my Android using Tapatalk.