Good news guys!
Jerpelea announced the eminent release of Cyanogen RC2 for the X10.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=7370940&postcount=91
So to keep the dev only thread clean, please post your questions, problems or comments here.
Update 2010-07-28:
jerpelea said:
with actual state of spl it boots then crashes
you can play a lil with the new kernel included into package
build 0005
http://hotfile.com/dl/57983756/408a452/0005.rar.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great news and great work by the devs!
I think that this release will be internal i.e. devs only. We never got RC1 so why should we expect RC2?
you got that wrong guys
Froyo is ready in RC2 for X10 this is not equal to : "the bootloader is finally hacked"
So stay calm please
Regards
Bin4ry
Man i got excited for a minute there. Looks like back to waiting.
Sent from my X10i using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
Damn it!
Still good news that it'll be ready for when it does get hacked.
no more wet dreams.
ill stick it once it gets useful fr all...
its nice to see progress at least, I thought they hit a brick wall a couple days ago as they stopped posting in the dev thread. It may be a while till we see a bootloader hack thats friendly for us but its hard to determine since we're not devs. As I understand it, the actual ROM is partly ready but it'll have a number of bugs etc still and only devs who can actually load it on through manual code will be able to test it out I think. It may be that its actually just a virtual rom to be loaded onto the SDK under the same conditions as the x10 to be tested by the developers. I THINK. As I said I'm not a developer so take my words with a huge grain of salt because I might be completely wrong.
PLS Can we get a little more detailed information.
instigator008 said:
I think that this release will be internal i.e. devs only. We never got RC1 so why should we expect RC2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PLS Can we get a little more detailed information.
If the RC2 will be ready tomorrow then it means that RC1 was launched on the device?
irkkso said:
PLS Can we get a little more detailed information.
If the RC2 will be ready tomorrow then it means that RC1 was launched on the device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what is the meaning of rc1 and rc2
RC = Release Candidate
irkkso said:
PLS Can we get a little more detailed information.
If the RC2 will be ready tomorrow then it means that RC1 was launched on the device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No no no... you got it all wrong.
RC2 is the latest release of CyanogenMod and work has been carried out on this to "Port" it over to the x10. There wasnt any point in working on RC1 if CM RC2 was out.
rc = release candidate
a software enters rc usually after testing phase(alpha-beta-etc...)....
j4mm3r said:
Good news guys!
Jerpelea announced the eminent release of Cyanogen RC2 for the X10.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=7370940&postcount=91
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So Jerpelea made a edit on the post... which is something pretty much expected as the bootloader is not cracked. So my guess is that this is going to use the spl loader module to boot into the CM kernel which has been ported for X10? Just a guess...
Can somebody explain to people like me who are new on android what does the cyanogen mod, is it just a firmware ?
What is called "kernel" in android and is it "modable" and if yes, why would it be ?
The answers...
Vilam said:
Can somebody explain to people like me who are new on android what does the cyanogen mod, is it just a firmware ?
What is called "kernel" in android and is it "modable" and if yes, why would it be ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Vilam, those are interesting questions, let me see if I can address those to your satisfaction.
The term "firmware" being distinct from "software", in my view is rapidly loosing its ability to be distinguishable from the latter. Essentially it refers to those parts of the executable code on a computing machine which remains unmodifiable or rather "burned in" to the circuitry. With the advent of modern flash memory storage, which is rather malleable compared to the earlier variants which existed, it is rather easy to change and update the machine code which is stored therein.
In other words, you might still refer to firmware to be part of the "software" which runs on a computing device which is not modifiable at run-time. In terms of a smart phone (which are rapidly becoming general purpose computing devices anyways), the firmware forms the basis of the software execution environment which affords the so called "apps" to run and provide either ever so innovative and useful functions.
Coming around to the point about Cyanogen mod... its a combination of firmware and software (if you still want to make that distinction that is). It in conjunction with helper pieces of code like the bootloader et. all. can completely replace the components that your phone was originally shipped with. Since these are Android phones that we are talking about, Cyanogen is derived from the same code base that Google officially uses for their various releases of Android. It is important to note that Android is a mobile application and phone platform rather than something which can easily be classified as "firmware" or "software"
Next question of yours about the "kernel". Not knowing what your level of familiarity of Linux or its derivatives is... let just say that Android is essentially like a distribution (or distro) of Linux designed specifically to run on mobile devices. As is the case with other Linux distros, they are formed around a core known as the "kernel". The "kernel" forms the core of the operating system which provides a homogeneous execution environment for the execution of various applications, which are in-turn pieces of software which are designed to provide the functionality which can be useful to the end-user. So all the so-called "apps" require the kernel to provide some services which are abstracted out enough so that the application programmer does not need to care about the really really low level stuff that actually has to go down if you actually want your device to do something. Hence the application programmer concentrates on the "high level" stuff, which is the functions that are actually going to be useful to the end-user!!
Like all modern computing platform, Android is a layered architecture and the "kernel" forms one of the most inner most parts of it (hence the name "kernel").
The linux kernel running Android for the X10 is already modifiable. People have been successful in compiling software modules called "kernel modules" which can be added to a running kernel and add functionality to it (this of course requires super user privileges or "root" access on the phone).
With the future pointing towards the capability of running mods like Cyanogen and the likes, the possibilities of modding and hacking are endless. Cyanogen, like the original releases of Android from Google are completely open source, so one can tweak almost all aspects of the phone functions. The possibilities are only limited by ones own imagination.
PS: I think I had too much beer and it makes me practice my English composition skills... hic!
Thank you very much for this clear explaination !
Please let me explain in newbie wordings. This is for ppl who can't understand what's going on at all.
1. A firmware likes an OS, if not exactly is. Windows, Linux, DOS, OS X are all OS. In android phone, there is merely one OS, which is Android.
2. Android is Linux.
3. Linux has a kernel, which is the main program. Without this, your machine can't run. On top of kernel, there is other software (movie player/web browser). Kernel + other software = distro (distribution).
4. Windows has different distro like Home, Professional, Ultimate... Linux has also different distro, so does android. One of them is CyanogenMod. The other could be Xperia X10 original.
5. Android is open source, so everyone can mod it. But that does also means someone can remove functions from it, one of them is Sony Ericsson, which locks your Xperia X10 for professional use.
6. While it is easy for us to upgrade Windows XP to Windows 7. It is difficult to install OS X from Windows XP. This is the same case for Android, it is easy to upgrade our Xperia X10, but it is not that easy to install CyanogenMod. There are honorable person working on this issue.
7. Why CyanogenMod? Because it is faster or it does not lock function like original Sony distro.
8. Just like installing OS X on regular PC, installing CyanogenMod may brick your machine. Much worse, Sony will definitely don't get your X10 repaired. So think if you need that extra function.
Related
Is it possible to get the new Windows 7 mobile on the hero? If so, how? If not, can someone make it possible?
nicolajreck said:
Is it possible to get the new Windows 7 mobile on the hero? If so, how? If not, can someone make it possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. Wrong chipset, not powerful enough, wrong screen size. Many reasons.
Wrong chipset is enough though.
Its windows ..... thats enough of a reason XD
btdag said:
Its windows ..... thats enough of a reason XD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, android can run on a iPhone, so, it's not a stupid question
Android should run on the iPhone - its the only way they'll get a good OS on their phone! but why would you want to run the iphone os or windows on an android phone?
I'm being antagonistic for the sake of it FYI. And the question was never "stupid" - your words not mine
I would love to see this happen - just to say they we can run any of the OS's. BUT IMHO Android is by far the best and I would never replace it completely on my phone. I think most of the devs on here probably feel the same which is why you're unlikely to see anyone working on doing this.
AND IMHO - there is no technical reason that either of the above mentioned OS's wouldn't run on an Android phone. Drivers/Code can be created for chipsets and screen size & resolution is easy to fix (in comparison). It may not be simple but its dooable. The tricky part would be getting access to the code - as those os's aren't open source or copyleft. So you'll have to "illegally" break the code to gain access in order to create the drivers to support other chipsets etc. This creates a nightmare time for places like XDA from a legal standpoint as they will be liable if people distribute this code through their website.
So in terms of this topic actually going somewhere and this technology actually coming to fruition - don't hold your breath!
I hope this helps a little more than previous answers
btdag said:
Android should run on the iPhone - its the only way they'll get a good OS on their phone! but why would you want to run the iphone os or windows on an android phone?
I'm being antagonistic for the sake of it FYI. And the question was never "stupid" - your words not mine
I would love to see this happen - just to say they we can run any of the OS's. BUT IMHO Android is by far the best and I would never replace it completely on my phone. I think most of the devs on here probably feel the same which is why you're unlikely to see anyone working on doing this.
AND IMHO - there is no technical reason that either of the above mentioned OS's wouldn't run on an Android phone. Drivers/Code can be created for chipsets and screen size & resolution is easy to fix (in comparison). It may not be simple but its dooable. The tricky part would be getting access to the code - as those os's aren't open source or copyleft. So you'll have to "illegally" break the code to gain access in order to create the drivers to support other chipsets etc. This creates a nightmare time for places like XDA from a legal standpoint as they will be liable if people distribute this code through their website.
So in terms of this topic actually going somewhere and this technology actually coming to fruition - don't hold your breath!
I hope this helps a little more than previous answers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the detailed answer, that explained a lot more.
Guys (and girls ... if any are reading .. )
After some tinkering about (for days now) with Mango build 7720 (Thanks again YUKI + XBOXMOD!) I can confirm that the many of the issues present in Mango Beta are now gone ... Ok granted the MicroSD gets encrypted but its not meant to be removed on an original WP7! You can refer to Yuki's thread on how to unlock your MicroSD card if you don't fancy the likes Microsofts OS and want to revert back to Android .....
Now, it's a known fact that multitouch is an issue together with sound and camera. I was unable to find solutions to this issue. This thread seeks to ask / reply and hopefully implement some of the issues which remain for us to make the HD2 and hopefully run Android and WP7 natively without the abstraction layer present in the secondary bootloaders.
Question 1 - I am aware that CLK runs android only. Are the sound / camera / and multitouch issues present in WP7 also present in Android NAND roms running on CLK ?
Question 2 - How possible is it to modify CLK to run WP7 if the answer to above is NO?
Question 3 - If the issue iies in the secondary bootloader drivers (if any) ... Is there a way to modify/contribute for further development on them?
If we resolve these the HD2 would truly be a remarkable piece of hardware running virtually any OS. Presently the multitouch issue kills some of the enjoyment on WP7 ... and the source sound input gain is too high.
I really wish if we could get some serious thread going and if anyone is confident that he/she can help resolving the driver issue, feel free to pm me. I am a software developer (c#) if this can help in any way. Have been using it some years now on a daily basis. I am willing to provide my help. I hope that anyone could help along maybe we create yet another open source bootloader which does the trick.
Hoping to hear from you so we get something going ...
Regards
Al
I would really like to hear from some devs I am more than sure that the community would be very grateful.
Secondly (courtesy of warriorvibhu)
I suggest that you all Sign this Petition.. Kindly inform all fellow HD2 owners to sign it ... especially if they were impressed by WP7 on HD2.
Alcatrazx said:
Guys (and girls ... if any are reading .. )
Now, it's a known fact that multitouch is an issue together with sound and camera. I was unable to find solutions to this issue. This thread seeks to ask / reply and hopefully implement some of the issues which remain for us to make the HD2 and hopefully run Android and WP7 natively without the abstraction layer present in the secondary bootloaders.
Question 1 - I am aware that CLK runs android only. Are the sound / camera / and multitouch issues present in WP7 also present in Android NAND roms running on CLK ?
No there are some issues in camera and sound with android but is related to incomplete kernel. They are not related to each other for example no multi touch issues on android. All those issues are related to not perfect drivers hd7 is using another touchscreen panel I guess and maybe different speakers and camera. Anyway those drivers are complexed to write because we dont get source from microsoft on how to write them.
Question 2 - How possible is it to modify CLK to run WP7 if the answer to above is NO?
Theoritically yes but CLK is designed to load an linux kernel. So if we want that we need to write a complete new bootloader.
Question 3 - If the issue iies in the secondary bootloader drivers (if any) ... Is there a way to modify/contribute for further development on them?
Yes but you need to go backt to Windows 6.5 and read out the current drivers and port them to windows phone 7 properly. But you will need a JTAG for it and you must be very skilled.
If we resolve these the HD2 would truly be a remarkable piece of hardware running virtually any OS. Presently the multitouch issue kills some of the enjoyment on WP7 ... and the source sound input gain is too high.
I really wish if we could get some serious thread going and if anyone is confident that he/she can help resolving the driver issue, feel free to pm me. I am a software developer (c#) if this can help in any way.
Hoping to hear from you so we get something going ...
Regards
Al
Question
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hope this make some stuff clear.
You talk about a sound issue.
If your talking about the sound being too high, then a cab can be downloadeed to fix this. Doesnt limit the maximum volume, just reduces the minimum and puts bigger steps in placce.
We need an asm developer for try to fix multitouch problem... or the source code of driver...
Multi-touch is a bit better for me (don't know if the games which need two screen pressure work I didn't tried yet) but in Bing Maps and IE9 it's working most of the time.
Just hope that's will come soon, I cant wait it !
However, I also hope the Mango will worked with flash and include more apps in the marketplace.
Fisher_9511 said:
Multi-touch is a bit better for me (don't know if the games which need two screen pressure work I didn't tried yet) but in Bing Maps and IE9 it's working most of the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not working in any of multitouch Games.
Nice thread,curious to See the answers, definitely camera is a big issue for me, hope it get fixed soon.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Dont forget the need to use the "batterytrick"
good thread by the way
Unfortunately the thread won't lead to anywhere. Development on WP7/7.5 is not like development on Android. WP7 is closed source and so is the drivers.
So unless HTC themselves step in or a developer hacks new drivers up(which won't happen). We'll never see a native WP7.
We're using all the stuff that was leaked from the original LEO ROM. Also, CLK with WP7/7.5 boot support would not change this. And no, all these problems are not present in Android. But that's because the developers have more tools and open source code to work with, something we don't have.
Try to think positive man... Have you ever seen the arm listed file? We need to find a timer between the two finger... would not be so so so hard... but only hard...XD
TonyCubed said:
Unfortunately the thread won't lead to anywhere. Development on WP7/7.5 is not like development on Android. WP7 is closed source and so is the drivers.
So unless HTC themselves step in or a developer hacks new drivers up(which won't happen). We'll never see a native WP7.
We're using all the stuff that was leaked from the original LEO ROM. Also, CLK with WP7/7.5 boot support would not change this. And no, all these problems are not present in Android. But that's because the developers have more tools and open source code to work with, something we don't have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi and thanks for the feedback. With a negative attitude the thread will lead to nowhere yes. That was what people said a year ago when they said that WP7 will never run on the HD2 but the devs ultimately got there. Thanks for answering the question re the Android drivers though.
You are RIGHT that the drivers in WP7 are closed source drivers ... so is MAGLDR. Rewriting another bootloader (if needed) which does not have all the frills of MAGLDR but which is open source could be a possibility.
I am not interested in getting into the WP7 ROM and modifying the drivers built in ... We have to use a technique similar to what they use when creating emulators by reverse engineering ... The most die hard emulators out there such as some of the Playstation emus out there were all closed source but it did not stop the devs from doing a proper emulation of the console.
I'd really appreciate if you could be more specific when you said that we are using the stuff which was leaked from the original "LEO" ROM ... as far as I know, is it not the Schubert which was leaked? Correct me if I'm wrong ... We got too far to give up just now...
Multitouch games do not work .. with the current Multitouch driver .. mainly due to the finger position bug .... This is explained in detail on youtube.
Sound is distorted because the input gain is too high ...
Let's not speak about the camera for now ... I think those are the two major issues which need to be remedied for now. Hopefully this thread will get us somewhere.
Regards
Al
Good initiative ! I hope we can make things work.
Also for those with the negative attitude...if you dont have anything good to say...dont say !
backlashsid said:
Good initiative ! I hope we can make things work.
Also for those with the negative attitude...if you dont have anything good to say...dont say !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nicely said and many thanks
You talk about a sound issue.
If your talking about the sound being too high, then a cab can be downloadeed to fix this. Doesnt limit the maximum volume, just reduces the minimum and puts bigger steps in placce.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is not exactly fixing the issue... It just modifies the maxima and minima ... The sound (input gain) is too high making it sound distorted from the HD2. The fix does remedy this a bit but its ... erm not really fixing the problem.
do think this would be a good idea, but its not being negative pointing out the obvious issue, its being realistic.
you see the point you made on MAGLDR and WP7 running of the HD2 is mute, and im not sure you fully understand its use, there are fundamental differences in making WP7 believe the HD2 is a native device and changing the actual drivers, you see, the SPL for the HD2 was opened up a long time ago with HSPL to be put in place which pretty much allowed us to do anything, the next critical piece was MAGLDR, which sat on top of the HSPL which gave us the potential to install android then WP, both HSPL and MAGLDR are very much programed by folk on here, they were not "hacked" or copied, they are closed source as you put it but they are built for a purpose of doing exactly what they do, enable custom ROMs, for WM, Android and WP to install. But that’s not the issue, the issue is a driver
To be clearer on the matter, IF WP7 had never been tested on the HD2 initially then we would never have had it.
The reasons for the bugs we talk about are because we have test drivers that were never supposed to see the end user. Had we not had that opportunity with the drivers on the HD2 then we would have been up the creek with it.
There are only a number of possibilities to get what we want
•HTC/OEMs go out of their way to finish the HD2 WP7 drivers and give them to use
•HTC/OEMs gives us the Relevant code and tools to do it ourselves
•We find native Windows phone devices that uses EXACTLY the same hardware which we can borrow
•Finally, the wildcard, someone who happens to know how to program for the hardware in question comes to help us.
That is it im afraid, its not being negative, you want to know what we need to do, well, there you go, the chances of HTC etc helping us are almost non-existent, finding devices with the same hardware, well i think we have more of a chance of HTC giving us them, BUT thats more to do with the very old digitiser we have, less so with the other hardware elements, so there is a possibility there.
Finding someone who can actually build a driver from the ground up? its possible, but short of putting adverts out on every developer website asking for help its not likely we will find one from this thread alone.
dazza9075 said:
do think this would be a good idea, but its not being negative pointing out the obvious issue, its being realistic.
you see the point you made on MAGLDR and WP7 running of the HD2 is mute, and im not sure you fully understand its use, there are fundamental differences in making WP7 believe the HD2 is a native device and changing the actual drivers, you see, the SPL for the HD2 was opened up a long time ago with HSPL to be put in place which pretty much allowed us to do anything, the next critical piece was MAGLDR, which sat on top of the HSPL which gave us the potential to install android then WP, both HSPL and MAGLDR are very much programed by folk on here, they were not "hacked" or copied, they are closed source as you put it but they are built for a purpose of doing exactly what they do, enable custom ROMs, for WM, Android and WP to install. But that’s not the issue, the issue is a driver
To be clearer on the matter, IF WP7 had never been tested on the HD2 initially then we would never have had it.
The reasons for the bugs we talk about are because we have test drivers that were never supposed to see the end user. Had we not had that opportunity with the drivers on the HD2 then we would have been up the creek with it.
There are only a number of possibilities to get what we want
•HTC/OEMs go out of their way to finish the HD2 WP7 drivers and give them to use
•HTC/OEMs gives us the Relevant code and tools to do it ourselves
•We find native Windows phone devices that uses EXACTLY the same hardware which we can borrow
•Finally, the wildcard, someone who happens to know how to program for the hardware in question comes to help us.
That is it im afraid, its not being negative, you want to know what we need to do, well, there you go, the chances of HTC etc helping us are almost non-existent, finding devices with the same hardware, well i think we have more of a chance of HTC giving us them, BUT thats more to do with the very old digitiser we have, less so with the other hardware elements, so there is a possibility there.
Finding someone who can actually build a driver from the ground up? its possible, but short of putting adverts out on every developer website asking for help its not likely we will find one from this thread alone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ur right...man sometimes i so feel like bombarding Drew Bamford (product design HTC) emails about windows phone 7 and androi on HD2 and force him to be convinced to make drivers for us....its our right
but then again...can we really ???
backlashsid said:
ur right...man sometimes i so feel like bombarding Drew Bamford (product design HTC) emails about windows phone 7 and androi on HD2 and force him to be convinced to make drivers for us....its our right
but then again...can we really ???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd say... let's do this! If we get enough people, and those will send emails like everyday, then why not? There's nothing to lose
IF, and its a big IF, we are going to get it working better its going to need ideas like the comment from backlashsid to get unofficial support from these companies
In my humble opinion there is little chance of getting anything else working better without the support of people in the loop, essentially that means HTC and Qualcomm, but remember that by getting the HD2 running WP7 we are costing them money in lost sales, so there is little incentive for them to support us in an official capacity, what we're looking for is an insider!
it doesnt hurt hunting for new devices with the same hardware but its unlikely anyone would use old gear.
This would be nice so then we (as the community of XDA) can show off our HD2's as the beast-mode phone and bestest phone ever!
Why is it that there isn't just one version of android that will install on all phones? I mean, you can install windows on any pc regardless of spec and it automatically finds drivers for internal parts and makes them work? why can't this be done for android? would be miles easy for developers if you could just take a rom from say a dell streak and put it on say a galaxy s and vice versa, seems ****ing retarded to me that this isn't the case with android? Love my streak and android as a whole, but would be so much easier if the updates were dependant on the companies that made the phone and were just dependent on when google updates the software!!
Alexanderbooth said:
Why is it that there isn't just one version of android that will install on all phones? I mean, you can install windows on any pc regardless of spec and it automatically finds drivers for internal parts and makes them work? why can't this be done for android? would be miles easy for developers if you could just take a rom from say a dell streak and put it on say a galaxy s and vice versa, seems ****ing retarded to me that this isn't the case with android? Love my streak and android as a whole, but would be so much easier if the updates were dependant on the companies that made the phone and were just dependent on when google updates the software!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, first of all, are you genuinely serious? I loved the os of the ps3 why cant I have that on my xbox 360, come on mate, really. If that was the case, then we would probably just need 1 type of phone with every release of android software, example iphone.
Android allows people to have a nice choice of phones from different manufacturers.
I personally, think android is 10 times better than any other simply because of the control the users have, we can purchase an android phone and customize the hell out of it to our liking, yet you have no choice to jailbreak an iphone to have half the options android users get out the box.
Sent from my Dell Streak using xda premium
Yes in a perfect world that would work, "one OS for any phone" but the truth of the matter is that it is a driver issue, and manufacturers want to make a profit. There are too many different manufacturers of components and not all of them are compatible with each other, get out dated or don't meet recommended minimal specs. Example is trying to put Windows 7 on a P2 machine. Maybe it will install, but you are not going to get much if any of the benefits of the new OS. Or if you put win 7 on a Mac. Sure it will work, but it is not going to be on a machine that it was designed to run on spec wise. Believe me, I wish it was that simple, but unfortunately it is not. We can dream though.
It has a lot to do with the drivers, unless every phone was identical internally (or each generation identical internally) there are no drivers for that specific device.
PCs are much more standardized when it comes to hardware working with drivers. Most important components like video/audio/ I/O have standard fallback modes and their specific drivers. That's why you can install windows or linux or whatever on a system and at least expect it to boot and most of the stuff to work. They have generic drivers that will do the minimum required for it to function, but not much more.
From a user perspective drivers are much more diffucult with regards to *nix then with windows, this is especially true with regards to android (as it uses the linux kernel)
Windows has standardized (as in they have published the specs and adhere to it) driver frameworks and spend a good deal of testing time making sure 3rd party drivers will remain reasonably compatable. Usually it goes smoothly enough when releasing a new standard, when it goes bad you get what happened with vista where the drivers were the main cause of instability. Most of the time you can use drivers written for win 95 on win7 x86 and there's still a fair chance it might STILL work depending on how well the driver was written (this is a gross oversimplification, there's an entire class of win 9x drivers that wont work, but the other class will).
With linux driver compability is much less clear cut, many important drivers are available as source, and it's very possible (but requires a fair deal of planning ahead) to build a pc and only use source code drivers.
If something is only available as binary drivers you're at the mercy of the manufacturer to keep it updated and working.
This is why android is so difficult to roll out timely updates. The kernels in 2.2 are very different from 2.3/3.x and rewriting the drivers for it is what accounts for ~90% of the work (assuming your device is powerful enough to update in the first place)
The full driver sourcecode isnt often made available for android devices, so you either have to spend time writing your own or attempting to adapt the binary drivers to make it work. This is what is happening with streakdroid 2.x
The other critical point is that the bootloader must be willing to load 3rd party code.
There's a fair amount of devices that have had android ported to them because they were:
1) Able to load 3rd party code (either by hacking the bootloader or it allowing it on it's own)
2) They either had comparable drivers or were willing/able to write their own
3) There were enough devs to take the time to accomplish this in the first place
4) Android is open source so it's possible to write your own drivers in the first place (techinally all you might need is the driver sdk, but no mobile os has only a driver sdk available, it's either all or nothing)
Being open source has absolutely nothing to do with being able to install it on any device.
Winmo 6.5 is closed source (sorta, it's somewhat like shared-source) but it's just as easy to port over. But there's little to no interest to porting it to new devices.
Win8/arm might be like how windows is on the pc IF they keep drivers the way they are. If ms decides to incorporate them the way linux does it wont be any different then what android is experiencing now (though it's kinda unlikely, windows has always loaded drivers as seperate modules, and they're likely actively paying attention to that with win8)
I will just add that in my very humble opinion the OP wasnt by NO MEANS asking a dumb question (and it would rule to have standardized drivers for phones)
(and btw, great writeup manii. this might as well fit in some android related blog.)
markdexter said:
Haha, first of all, are you genuinely serious? I loved the os of the ps3 why cant I have that on my xbox 360, come on mate, really. If that was the case, then we would probably just need 1 type of phone with every release of android software, example iphone.
Android allows people to have a nice choice of phones from different manufacturers.
I personally, think android is 10 times better than any other simply because of the control the users have, we can purchase an android phone and customize the hell out of it to our liking, yet you have no choice to jailbreak an iphone to have half the options android users get out the box.
Sent from my Dell Streak using xda premium
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O M G!!! android fanboys!! your worst than apple fanboys, when did I even mention the iphone or what makes android so good? or installing other peoples software on to other hardware, I'm only talking about android and its phones you turn everything into android is better than ios blah blah blah blah blah!! Shut the **** up and go to another thread!!
The other people in the thread, yeah I kinda knew it was down to driver issues, but I didn't think it was that complex. Android imo is the best os I've ever experience in my life, even better than windows 7. But for me, I actually think the only 1 draw back the os has, is the fragmentation of the updates. Is this possiblity of one android os to work on all android phones, so you can just download the update.pkg from google and just install it on any android phone, or is this something that was never intended and because of how its developed its to late to go back and change this? or is it something google has in the pipeline?
Alexanderbooth said:
O M G!!! android fanboys!! your worst than apple fanboys, when did I even mention the iphone or what makes android so good? or installing other peoples software on to other hardware, I'm only talking about android and its phones you turn everything into android is better than ios blah blah blah blah blah!! Shut the **** up and go to another thread!!
The other people in the thread, yeah I kinda knew it was down to driver issues, but I didn't think it was that complex. Android imo is the best os I've ever experience in my life, even better than windows 7. But for me, I actually think the only 1 draw back the os has, is the fragmentation of the updates. Is this possiblity of one android os to work on all android phones, so you can just download the update.pkg from google and just install it on any android phone, or is this something that was never intended and because of how its developed its to late to go back and change this? or is it something google has in the pipeline?
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Well I am glad Alexander cleard that up. I totally see now tht he was referring to one android update for all "android" phones. Which in theory, would be nice and possibe be the solution to so mny segmented releases.
Android fanboy?? Grow up, first of all I wont as you say **** off to another thread, you didnt get my point, but thats ok I can tell by your answer and generally by your original question that your not that bright, thats ok buddy.
I own an iphone 4, to run apples os I have to own an apple product (the phone) which for me is too small, I would like a bigger screen, so im stuck.
With android different manafacturers are in competition for what the people want and offer a huge variety of phones. Yes its a bit of a pain in the arse to install custom roms on them but once you know how its pretty easy.
At the end of the day to have one os that would go on any phone would be nice but then really whats the point in having a whole bunch of different phones. I like the way android is, I own as I said a earlier an iphone 4 and a dell streak, I find myself using the dell more, simply because I can make it my own.
Also ....me fanboy, you said you like android better than windows...the most popular os al over yhe world.
Sent from my Dell Streak using xda premium
Rico ANDROID said:
Well I am glad Alexander cleard that up. I totally see now tht he was referring to one android update for all "android" phones. Which in theory, would be nice and possibe be the solution to so mny segmented releases.
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Yeah I know, coming from having the dell streak, and only having one upgrade while I've had the phone, I just can't understand why phone manufacturers go to all this trouble creating there own version of android when they could easily outsource this part of the phone to Google. I'm sure it would also make it easier for app developers to make there app work on all android phones. Seems so strange to me growing up with windows and being able to just buy a new pc and just get your windows cd out and bosh on windows, and it works. Does anyone know if this will ever happen or do the phone manufacturers want to have there own version of android, so they can fill it with there own apps?
To me even if they did still want there own versions of android, they should still give you the option of returning to stock android and just going to google for the update.
markdexter said:
Android fanboy?? Grow up, first of all I wont as you say **** off to another thread, you didnt get my point, but thats ok I can tell by your answer and generally by your original question that your not that bright, thats ok buddy.
I own an iphone 4, to run apples os I have to own an apple product (the phone) which for me is too small, I would like a bigger screen, so im stuck.
With android different manafacturers are in competition for what the people want and offer a huge variety of phones. Yes its a bit of a pain in the arse to install custom roms on them but once you know how its pretty easy.
At the end of the day to have one os that would go on any phone would be nice but then really whats the point in having a whole bunch of different phones. I like the way android is, I own as I said a earlier an iphone 4 and a dell streak, I find myself using the dell more, simply because I can make it my own.
Also ....me fanboy, you said you like android better than windows...the most popular os al over yhe world.
Sent from my Dell Streak using xda premium
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Your saying I'm not bright, but your comment to my original question had no relevance to what I was asking at all, you didn't even slightly attempt to answer what I had asked.
My Atrix got it's case cracked and the touch-screen display died, and given I already got a replacement phone I feel a bit adventurous. I wanted to see if I could build my own computer with what remains, so I wanted to run Linux natively (no Android). Given that there's a Linux 4 Tegra from Nvidia:
Is there a chance that I could build my own distro based on that?
Should I use another kernel (like the one currently used in gingerbread or CM7)?
Please note that I'm not trying to do webtop.
I thought of building my own handheld with the Atrix, or what remains of it. So any tips on how to get started would be great.
Cheers!
wrong section
ovitz said:
wrong section
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Umm... what section would you suggest other than Q&A?
It was moved. Sorry 'bout that. I was under the impression that development questions were on the other forum...
"Android development" is in the description. I think they keep that forum just for Android-specific things, even though Android is just a flavor of linux.
tonglebeak said:
"Android development" is in the description. I think they keep that forum just for Android-specific things, even though Android is just a flavor of linux.
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You're being way too literal. It's been used for all sorts of non-Android dev multiple times. Right now, Boot2Gecko is right there. The fact of the matter is that when it pertains to dev questions, this post would most likely be answered there. I'm pretty sure it'll die here on this forum with barely any useful answer, if at all.
The development section is mostly for things that are "in progress", ie. with "something to show". Questions, discussions and ideas go elsewhere.
As for your question, I believe I've seen a thread about this already, and quite recently too.
ravilov said:
The development section is mostly for things that are "in progress", ie. with "something to show". Questions, discussions and ideas go elsewhere.
As for your question, I believe I've seen a thread about this already, and quite recently too.
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I've checked a few that I've found on the forum, but most had no answer and were about other devices. With regards to the Atrix or the Tegra, I've only found threads about webtop.
Not to argue too much about this too much, but I've seen threads that started with nothing in the dev section. Like the Kernel porting project that started as a mere placeholder for the project. Point is, I've done my research and found no pointers to the questions I have. I made it in case another dev had an idea about it. I may have missed something, but that's why I asked in the first place. If I believed I had covered all grounds by myself, I wouldn't have asked in the first place.
Lugaidster said:
I've checked a few that I've found on the forum, but most had no answer and were about other devices. With regards to the Atrix or the Tegra, I've only found threads about webtop.
Not to argue too much about this too much, but I've seen threads that started with nothing in the dev section. Like the Kernel porting project that started as a mere placeholder for the project. Point is, I've done my research and found no pointers to the questions I have. I made it in case another dev had an idea about it. I may have missed something, but that's why I asked in the first place. If I believed I had covered all grounds by myself, I wouldn't have asked in the first place.
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What you're looking to do seems similar to this question: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2110161
The difference between the webtop and a stand alone installation of Linux won't be that different, mainly it would just be where on the device the OS is installed and how video is handled. That said, I'm not sure about the kernel, specifically the video drivers, since they're intended for Android and may not be compatible with X. AFAIK, Wayland is closer to Android than X is, but Wayland isn't quite ready.
Anyway, assuming you did succeed, what you would end up with would be less like a true desktop (as you'd be pretty much locked into a specific kernel, and therefor any packages limited by it, but it doesn't invalidate the effort), and more like a persistent live CD, since the OS would be installed to an area mounted as read-only (to prevent flash wear), with access to an area that has read/write access, like in Android where you store apps and user files. Overall, it could be fun if you enjoy a challenge and aren't intimidated by soldering and using the JTAG connector.
lehjr said:
What you're looking to do seems similar to this question: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2110161
The difference between the webtop and a stand alone installation of Linux won't be that different, mainly it would just be where on the device the OS is installed and how video is handled. That said, I'm not sure about the kernel, specifically the video drivers, since they're intended for Android and may not be compatible with X. AFAIK, Wayland is closer to Android than X is, but Wayland isn't quite ready.
Anyway, assuming you did succeed, what you would end up with would be less like a true desktop (as you'd be pretty much locked into a specific kernel, and therefor any packages limited by it, but it doesn't invalidate the effort), and more like a persistent live CD, since the OS would be installed to an area mounted as read-only (to prevent flash wear), with access to an area that has read/write access, like in Android where you store apps and user files. Overall, it could be fun if you enjoy a challenge and aren't intimidated by soldering and using the JTAG connector.
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Actually, I might have to do soldering anyway. I'm not really intimidated by it and don't really care all that much for phone functionality and such. I'm not even interested all that much in X as my project is more towards transforming it into a handheld gaming (more like emu) device. I don't mind compiling software specifically for the system. The question is pretty low-level in that regard for me. I want to know if I have to do anything with regards to the kernel since it's specific to Android. Given that most emus I know that would run acceptably in a tegra 2 don't really need the GPU, I don't mind just using framebuffer so HW doesn't really interest me.
Lugaidster said:
Actually, I might have to do soldering anyway. I'm not really intimidated by it and don't really care all that much for phone functionality and such. I'm not even interested all that much in X as my project is more towards transforming it into a handheld gaming (more like emu) device. I don't mind compiling software specifically for the system. The question is pretty low-level in that regard for me. I want to know if I have to do anything with regards to the kernel since it's specific to Android. Given that most emus I know that would run acceptably in a tegra 2 don't really need the GPU, I don't mind just using framebuffer so HW doesn't really interest me.
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Unfortunately, it's going to be one of those areas where you'll have to make an educated guess, since as far as we know, no one has successfully pulled off a straight Linux implementation on the device.
That said, nVidia does have both Android and Linux images for the Ventana dev kit, so it should be possible. In my case, I would compare the source code for their Linux kernel vs the stock Linux kernel vs their closest Android kernel vs the stock Android kernel. The biggest thing is how the the device specific files translate from one kernel to another, because you'll likely need to translate the device specific files for the Atrix in the same manner. The changes may be subtle or they may be drastic. The main thing is to just be able to set the pins properly so you don't release any "magic smoke". Unfortunately, I see no source code for any of nVidia's kernels.
Anyway, that's how I would do it, but I do suspect that someone with more knowledge could find a much simpler approach and hopefully they'll chime in, but this part of the forums isn't the thriving hub of activity it used to be, so I don't know if that will happen any time soon or at all.
lehjr said:
nVidia does have both Android and Linux images for the Ventana dev kit
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Atrix is a Whistler, not a Ventana.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33289027#post33289027
ravilov said:
Atrix is a Whistler, not a Ventana.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33289027#post33289027
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Thanks for the heads up and the link! :highfive:
Hi,
When I read the questions and guides, it seems the Surface Duo can be unlocked and rooted pretty easily.
So I was wondering why there is no custom ROM for this device which is, by all means, not perfect (it has a lot of flaws) but that I consider as at least a refreshing attempt to dig out of the "one glass rectangle touch screen" that we're now used to for years.
Is it beacause there's no love for the device ?
Or is it because Microsoft released absolutely no sources for the internal hardware ?
If there's anyone willing to try, I can offer build server to do it...
And contacts in a community to help iron out problems...
Regards.
Microsoft has indeed released the sources of the internal hardware, or, at the very least, some of it. I don't really know how to determine whether or not all of the drivers are included with the kernel source code. But they do have this kernel source code hosted on GitHub, under a combination of MIT, Apache, and GPL licensing, as well as full instructions on how to build the kernel. The instructions are located at microsoft/surface-duo-oss, and the scripts end up downloading from other microsoft/surface-duo-oss-* repositories. I've not actually tried to build this myself, and I'm not sure what you actually end up with afterwards, whether it is just a kernel, or if it also includes AOSP, and whether or not this can be included in the process of generating another distribution such as Lineage. But, I think this should at least be some information that can be used to at least start the process assuming anyone with existing experience is interested in starting this.
I have seen it expressed elsewhere that one reason people have not created a custom ROM is that android 10 does not have native support for multiscreen devices, while android 11 does. Meanwhile, Microsoft has only released android 10 for the device, and this includes the surface-duo-oss scripts as well, but that there is plans here soon (late September) by Microsoft release android 11 for the Surface Duo.
Fingers crossed! Looking forward to a robust desktop mode and multiple external monitor support like the regular Surface Pro does
Basically a phone that acts like a Surface PC when you dock at home or at work so you can actually work from the device like a normal Surface laptop and then fold and put it in our pockets when we're done working
I know this is an older post but I sure wish someone would go ahead and give me the dummy guide to flash their custom rom!! If anyone needs a duo that thinks they can make it happen I have a spare one..... The left screen is glitching in and out tho.