Well I was just reading a thread about someone buying a Vibrant from someone who "found" it and this person was looking for a way to bypass WaveSecure.
We all know that with a little know how that it is possible with Recovery Mode.
The question I have is there a way to prevent even a Recovery Mode reflash? To absolutely stop someone from touching the ROM at all?
I know the Security Apps out right now can track you from GPS, wipe the phone remotely, etc... But can it stop someone from reflashing a ROM?
If there is a app out there like that please let me know, but if not, what would it take to create such a app.
What are YOUR thoughts??
What if this happens and then you brick for some reason need to reflash and it's locked. I would just bank on the fact that most people think that it's a "Droid" phone and don't know ****.
I was hoping for a question like that.
Either there is a security measure which at some point of using Recovery that it asks for a password or pin. Something that will allow you to access it securely and nobody else.
Yes, it is a droid, very true, but how many droids are out there now, are going to be out there, and with the new laws that allow you to unlock your device and pretty much do anything with it, more and more people are going to start playing around. Not only that, there is always somebody who knows someone, you know.
Personally myself, I would feel secure with having an implementation like this, everything else is pointless.
It's sort of like having a anti virus on your computer but not scanning for rootkits, only viruses.
The idea of that app sounds nice and all that but I seriously doubt that the average Android user would know about flashing ROMs and all that. But if it does get into the hands of somebody that does know how to do it then it can be a problem.
jzero88 said:
Yes, it is a droid, very true, but how many droids...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all these are android devices / android phones. I was mocking the people who call these phones "droid" phones.
Now on topic: All it takes to break this security is for one person to say, "I forgot my password on for the ==sUPERlOCKER== what do I do to get access?" Then all your worry is for nothing again.
What has been done can always be undone.
Sure, unlike me, I never forget my passwords. Especially for something this serious.
Second, of course something can be undo, but to what extent, after hearing your lack of concern makes me think you don't even have a lock on your phone
Again, would you rather have a password like "1234" that is easily guessed, or would you rather have something like "00LowJK54889$3%#". It's really a matter of personal security.
You sound like one of those people who would have Security Cameras, but never has the DVR on to record anything.
I'm saying your idea is bad. I have illustrated why. You have no counterpoint other than that I am 'relaxed' about my phone security.
How about this, keep your phone in your pocket or hand? 100% security.
This should be in general and not development
Sent from my Vibrant using xda app
This has been discussed a few times, you could compile your own recovery image and program in a password while at it, or you can accept that 90% of theives(or people who would find your phone) cannot get to recovery. If I found a phone then yeah I would go straight to recovery but I'm not your average user.
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
I'm saying your idea is bad. I have illustrated why. You have no counterpoint other than that I am 'relaxed' about my phone security.
How about this, keep your phone in your pocket or hand? 100% security.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, my idea is not bad, give it time, you will see.
Second, I do not have a counterpoint because my main point is stated in the first post. Read again.
Third, I don't care if you are relaxed about your security or not. This post obviously is not for you, another negative person who stunts development if they do not see a logical use for themselves.
I wish you the best and hope that you do not need to ever use such a tool or measure. Take it easy.
This has been discussed a few times, you could compile your own recovery image and program in a password while at it, or you can accept that 90% of theives(or people who would find your phone) cannot get to recovery. If I found a phone then yeah I would go straight to recovery but I'm not your average user.
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On the Vibrant forums? Haven't seen anything yet.
Also, I am not betting on a thief or someone who found the phone to be able to get to recovery, I'm worried about who these people might know. It's surprising to see how many people out here think that they are the only person in a 20 mile radius who knows how to do such mods... Maybe it's just the people I know but I know quite a few people who can easily google and find a way, easily.
I can bet that 90% of people here do not know anything except following directions, no pun intended to those who do. I definitely do not know half of what I should know, but again, is it really that hard?
Your own logic defeats what you are saying here. Don't you understand OP?
If there is a security measure, there will be a work around it? So why have more than ONE thing for the uneducated masses and stop there?
If the person who steals your phone knows someone who could get around WaveSecure, or any other security application. Then that same person can get around ANY AND ALL other types and forms of theft deterrent. If not, they will know someone, ask on forums, etc. UNTIL they gain access.
zaduma
Then why have any security on anything at all?
You my friend make no sense, good day!
jzero88 said:
Then why have any security on anything at all?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I will lay it out as simply as I can man. I do not want to argue, but you are missing why this is impossible to accomplish.
The existing security layers can be compromised by lets say... 10% of the population, seeing as most people who are thieves do not talk about it, most people dislike thieves.
So effectively 90% of people will be stopped dead in their tracks by having WaveSecure, etc.
The 10% who are not stopped however, can not be stopped by any means. None. They are the people who read these forums, have technical ability, etc.
Therefore having one layer of security means 90% of people are stopped from using your device. But it has ridiculously diminishing returns. With two layers, say stopping access to recovery, 10% are now stopped. Just boot into download mode and flash with odin. Stop download mode? First of all how? Second of all, there has to be a workaround for people who forget their passwords and stuff. And guess what, those 10% will know about that as well.
So please, address these issues and resolve them somehow, and your idea has merit. Without doing so you are wasting your time.
Also, much to your liking I will assume, I will no longer be posting in this thread due to your constant elevation of flaming.
Any security pro will tell you, if you have physical access to a computer, you can make it usable for you. The only real security you can hope for its to prevent access to your data by the thief. That's what full disk encryption and such is about. For our phones, we could achieve this much with a custom kernel perhaps, but how would you enter the password? No keyboard at that level.
The cellular providers can prevent the stolen phone from getting on their networks, and some do, but that's about as far as it goes.
Its like having a lock on your front door.. Its only going to keep out the honest people... Thats what they are made for, honest people, because dishonest people will just kick the door in.. And the good thieves can pick a dead bolt...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I'm starting to think this request/question is for the wrong crowd, truly it is...
If you build it they will hack it... Hands down... Look at the droid x, the unhackable phone, it took 5 weeks..
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I agree, never did I not. This thread wasn't to debate whether a security measure could be hacked or not, the thread was created to see what we could do to implement such a measure.
I am totally aware of that. I know that if there is a will there is a way.
PERSONALLY, that is something I wouldn't mind having. Though some of you disagree and have a right to your own opinion, that is beyond the point. I am trying to see if a) is it possible. and b) what it would take to do so, and possibly c) if anyone was interested in trying or helping out.
So feel free to express your opinion. Mine is that you can never have enough protection cuz I would never bring a knife to a gun fight. But that's just me...
BTW, those who hacked the unhackable phone I would consider being part of the .01%.
jzero88 said:
I'm starting to think this request/question is for the wrong crowd, truly it is...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you mean people that know how things work, I suppose. It's the same problem as drm. When you understand why that's not possible, you will understand this. Read up on jtag as well, you can't protect against that. 90% is about as good as it gets.
Related
Does anyone know how to do it on the Droid?
Is there a single honorable reason why you would be interested in doing this?
I sure can't think of one.
well as soon as wifi packet injection works on android i am switching.
¿GotJazz? said:
Is there a single honorable reason why you would be interested in doing this?
I sure can't think of one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Vulnerability testing... an auditor who wants to do bluetooth related pen test with his/her phone?
archangelugp said:
Vulnerability testing... an auditor who wants to do bluetooth related pen test with his/her phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets go with that . So I'm guessing theres no way yet?
alienware777 said:
Lets go with that . So I'm guessing theres no way yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. Not yet.
I don't see why it matters to anyone why someone wants this.
I want this too. I don't have to explain to anyone as to why I want it. Because, it is absolutely none of your business. If you don't know how to implement it, then don't post.
Lol. This is a public forum. Of course you don't have to explain why you want something. Equally, if someone who could help doesn't want to, because they suspect you're up to no good, they don't have to justify their actions either, let alone help you. Blessed be.
cauli said:
Lol. This is a public forum. Of course you don't have to explain why you want something. Equally, if someone who could help doesn't want to, because they suspect you're up to no good, they don't have to justify their actions either, let alone help you. Blessed be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Touché. I'll admit it. The main reason I want this is to mess with my friends. Nothing actually detrimental. Same reason I like sms bombers, and caller id fakers.
But still, this would be great to add on to my list
This would be so awesome..just from a security standpoint to be able to show and explain to friends and family to not there guards down when it comes to cyber theft and to turn off your radios when not in use
I never quite understand answers like this. This forum is for the exchange of information, not personal opinions. People that think their some kind of 'ethics police' need not be on this type of site. This site is for the exploration, hacking and development of our phones. Rooting & custom firmware is frowned upon by security researchers and manufacturers alike, but because your into it, it's morally correct?
supern0va said:
I never quite understand answers like this. This forum is for the exchange of information, not personal opinions. People that think their some kind of 'ethics police' need not be on this type of site. This site is for the exploration, hacking and development of our phones. Rooting & custom firmware is frowned upon by security researchers and manufacturers alike, but because your into it, it's morally correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, one man's "not needed" is another man's necessity. This is no less needed than say someone thinking they need a ps3 controller (or wiimote) working with their phone, but no one really complains about that.
here's a very legitimate reason for you so if you know how PM me
Hi,
A friend of mine has an older mobile with a broken touchscreen - the phone no longer has a SIM or a RAM card and is in "Music Sync" mode when it connects to a PC via USB.
They are currently in a court case and need to get their old SMS's off the broken phone - all the "forensic" mobile software out there (from $500 up to $5000!!!) require that the phone is in PC-Suite (or PC-Sync) mode. This can't be changed on the phone as the touchscreen doesn't work.
The only way to get to the SMS's is by Bluesnarfing, so if you know of a PC program or a WinMo 6.5 program that will let me access their phone PM me.
Thanks.
Why is there always that one person that offers no assistance, takes up bandwidth questioning your motives...
For those that don't know:
"Bluesnarfing is the theft of information from a wireless device through a Bluetooth connection, often between phones, desktops, laptops, and PDAs. This allows access to a calendar, contact list, emails and text messages. Bluesnarfing is much more serious in relation to Bluejacking, although both exploit others’ Bluetooth connections without their knowledge. Any device with its Bluetooth connection turned on and set to “discoverable” (able to be found by other Bluetooth devices in range) can be attacked. By turning off this feature you can be protected from the possibility of being Bluesnarfed. Since it is an invasion of privacy, Bluesnarfing is illegal in many countries."
Thread closed
Hey all,
I've been a lurker for a while, been looking for a way to encourage the now Google-owned Motorola Mobility to unlock their bootloaders much like HTC has wisely done, but it's becoming more and more obvious to me that they don't care about the "minority" of us that actually feels as though we are entitled to full admin rights on our phones that we either paid a ton of cash for, or signed a lengthy contract to obtain. Verizon is the one blocking it? HTC found a way, and so can Motorola Mobility...that is cop-out.
My proposal is that there be an effort to unlocked the bootloader, I am not some expert programmer, and I am open to whatever will help the cause. I know there was a bounty on it, but to me this isn't about money, I'll donate time, money, information ripped from my phone if it, in some way, contributes to unlocked that bootloader. Even if you need my unused CPU cycles to calculate things, I don't care, just tell me what I can to do help, because I am sick of not being able to use my phone to it's fully potential.
Maybe I am being naive, but I believe if we all worked together we could accomplish this goal. If you agree, please, let's organize and figure this out!
-Joshua
I love optimism
I'm down with the movement...
This phone does have mad potential to be so limited compared to other phones.
I just can't believe that we are running an unofficial, incomplete version of CM7 and it runs smoother than stock Blur.
Is that telling you something about Motorola?
Do you guys think Google will make that decision for Motorola or will Moto stay the same?
Sent from my Android
Worth a try...
Re: Google changing Moto policy
I don't know so much about Google changing Motorola's stance on the locked bootloader, we've tried petitioning the company themselves, but have we tried petitioning Google? Or maybe it's too soon, maybe they are working on it right now? Hard to tell, and I don't want to put pressure on Google too soon especially if they are trying diligently right now to do the right thing.
But the above poster is right, cracking it ourselves is definitely worth a try. I have contacts (unfortunately know inside Motorola), I know people with lots of knowledge on encryption, I'll be honest one of my friends does have a knack for the impossible, but this would be too much for one lone person. I also have a few computers in the house, to donate computing power. None above 5 GB of RAM unfortunately, but my friend with all of that know-how does also have a synchronous 20/mbit up/down connection to the net, if that helps, and I have another friend that is the linux admin at a an unnamed private university in Durham that might could lend a hand in some way.
We have the resources, we just need to pool them.
Someone with the realistic technical know-how, just tell us where to begin, and the shortest path to getting to our goal and we'll do all we can to contribute!
Thanks for understanding and not just writing this off as a pipe-dream...because I know if we work together we can accomplish almost anything.
-Joshua
spyda256 said:
I don't know so much about Google changing Motorola's stance on the locked bootloader, we've tried petitioning the company themselves, but have we tried petitioning Google? Or maybe it's too soon, maybe they are working on it right now? Hard to tell, and I don't want to put pressure on Google too soon especially if they are trying diligently right now to do the right thing.
But the above poster is right, cracking it ourselves is definitely worth a try. I have contacts (unfortunately know inside Motorola), I know people with lots of knowledge on encryption, I'll be honest one of my friends does have a knack for the impossible, but this would be too much for one lone person. I also have a few computers in the house, to donate computing power. None above 5 GB of RAM unfortunately, but my friend with all of that know-how does also have a synchronous 20/mbit up/down connection to the net, if that helps, and I have another friend that is the linux admin at a an unnamed private university in Durham that might could lend a hand in some way.
We have the resources, we just need to pool them.
Someone with the realistic technical know-how, just tell us where to begin, and the shortest path to getting to our goal and we'll do all we can to contribute!
Thanks for understanding and not just writing this off as a pipe-dream...because I know if we work together we can accomplish almost anything.
-Joshua
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i love your optimism i have some old pms that may help with the effort
SHA-1 brute force can be cracked for around $2 of Amazon cloud computing service.
http://www.geek.com/articles/news/r...for-2-10-with-amazons-cloud-service-20101122/
Isn't boot loader use SHA-1 encryption?
(of course, the key may be much longer, but it may not be impossible for cheap. I say try to pool together like $100 and try Amazon cloud computing a try?)
Re: Amazon
hpark21:
I like the way you're thinking, does anyone else think this might be a good call? I know there was a bounty of around ~$800 somewhere, so I doubt if all of us who rightfully were promised and unlocked bootloader wouldn't mind pooling a bit of money for the computing power, hell I myself would give $50 to the effort if we knew it was a viable solution.
Other thoughts?
Also, ztotherad, if you could send me those PMs maybe we can sift through those and see if there are some other avenues, nothing is off the table at this point.
thanks again for coming together on this, that is the true meaning of community.
spyda256 said:
hpark21:
I like the way you're thinking, does anyone else think this might be a good call? I know there was a bounty of around ~$800 somewhere, so I doubt if all of us who rightfully were promised and unlocked bootloader wouldn't mind pooling a bit of money for the computing power, hell I myself would give $50 to the effort if we knew it was a viable solution.
Other thoughts?
Also, ztotherad, if you could send me those PMs maybe we can sift through those and see if there are some other avenues, nothing is off the table at this point.
thanks again for coming together on this, that is the true meaning of community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i can def send you them, idk how much help theyll be
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
Stuckinabox said:
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In one of the many threads concerning bootloader unlocks, I believe the chances of us finding it were determined to be 1mill:1. It would take us over a decade to manually come up with the key. I don't want to kill confidence, but I'd like to keep things relatively rational.
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium
Stuckinabox said:
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's been established that brute forcing is nearly impossible, not completely impossible
it is something that would take an insane amount of resources to accomplish , and/or time ,
it would really come down to "how lucky are we?" really, as in::: how lucky are we that we stumble across or know a genius that can crack it, stumble across needed files, etc...
good luck to all who try, I wish I could do anything to get us there, but I don't know the first thing when it comes to this stuff, don't give up the dream!
Basically, what it comes down to is:
Find out what their hash key is. (encrypted password)
Then, try to go through all valid characters and see whether the input matches the output hash.
If one is lucky and they used short enough password, then it will be quick to find.
If unlucky and they used really long password, then the answer is that we won't be able to find it in REASONABLE time. (I would say 1-2 months to be reasonable - at $2/hr, it would cost $48/ day).
Only issue is when do we stop?
hpark21 said:
Basically, what it comes down to is:
Find out what their hash key is. (encrypted password)
Then, try to go through all valid characters and see whether the input matches the output hash.
If one is lucky and they used short enough password, then it will be quick to find.
If unlucky and they used really long password, then the answer is that we won't be able to find it in REASONABLE time. (I would say 1-2 months to be reasonable - at $2/hr, it would cost $48/ day).
Only issue is when do we stop?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There was some kind of crazy algorithm applied to each character to generate the correct item for each number of the key, correct? We would have to come up with that too?
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium
THANK YOU! Finally ... a revived movement. I pledged $100 on another thread and I'm good for putting it toward an unlocked bootloader again!
To learn from one of the most influential groups of our generation ... anonymous utilizes botnets to pool computing resources ... if we get a tool that could function similarly, could we not pool 1000s of computers together to crack it faster? It would make what is not feasible for a small set of computers to do... feasible. If all most users have to do is download a tool that gives us access to processing power and bandwidth ... users will download the hell out of it.
Count me in.
[ sent from _base2 ]
Hope
I understand doubters, and odds are likely against us, but that's ok, no one person can do it, and maybe not just one method, but somehow we WILL get to our goal. Whether Motorola capitulates or we find a method to crack it, we will not have this awesome hardware go to waste.
I am not generally a "black hat" kind of person, but in this case we are in the right so far as I am concerned (please don't quote DMCA BS to me, lol) because they made a promise to their customers, and it will be kept, whether they like it or not.
So, I am with the above poster that mention he didn't know quite where to start, or where we have already made progress, but if someone can help us out, explain the process, we figure out how to move forward. (Please forgive the run-on sentence).
I've minimal experience programming, only VB.net, C++, and a bit of Java from college, and I do tier 2 desktop support for a bank these days, but on my off time I'd love to spend it on something worthwhile, all of you deserve this, and we'll make it happen.
Maybe it's the troubleshooter in me that sees the problem and says "oh no, there's a way, we just need to find it". I have a colleague, the one I spoke of before, he has a knack for doing incredible things, so once we have a breakdown of what we need to do, perhaps he can be of help.
So my friends, where do we go from here?
spyda256 said:
I understand doubters, and odds are likely against us, but that's ok, no one person can do it, and maybe not just one method, but somehow we WILL get to our goal. Whether Motorola capitulates or we find a method to crack it, we will not have this awesome hardware go to waste.
I am not generally a "black hat" kind of person, but in this case we are in the right so far as I am concerned (please don't quote DMCA BS to me, lol) because they made a promise to their customers, and it will be kept, whether they like it or not.
So, I am with the above poster that mention he didn't know quite where to start, or where we have already made progress, but if someone can help us out, explain the process, we figure out how to move forward. (Please forgive the run-on sentence).
I've minimal experience programming, only VB.net, C++, and a bit of Java from college, and I do tier 2 desktop support for a bank these days, but on my off time I'd love to spend it on something worthwhile, all of you deserve this, and we'll make it happen.
Maybe it's the troubleshooter in me that sees the problem and says "oh no, there's a way, we just need to find it". I have a colleague, the one I spoke of before, he has a knack for doing incredible things, so once we have a breakdown of what we need to do, perhaps he can be of help.
So my friends, where do we go from here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sir, did you get my pms?
Re: PMs
Nope, just saw them, thanks for that!
This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Eckyx said:
This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simple answer is no not all devices are made the same. You see this with mass produced hardware. As for your PC ref. My brother and I have the same laptop while mine loves my set up, my brother has nothing but problems with it on his system. It comes alot down to personal set up and device. This has always been the case with mobile devices and custom roms. Stock roms are set to run on all devices the same. This is not so with custom roms.
Eckyx said:
This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Zel pretty neatly answered this, but I will also add that modern consumer electronics interact with the immediate environment far more than our pcs do. Light sensors, 3g radios, barometers, etc. are far less deterministic than our classic closed-loop pcs. Part of this perception of flux is based on this real flux, for example one of the core features people will discuss is call/modem quality, but driver tweaking vs. actual signal strength is a pretty fuzzy battle for anyone but an electrical/firmware engineer. And just like in the pc world, when you're talking under volting and over clocking your mileage will vary.
If you are methodical and read all the materials, your phone will operate tip top. It seems to me a lot (not all) of the variances often do boil down to the users configuration.
Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner
I have fixed a lot of computers and have been flashing custom roms for a year and ill tell you, in my personal opinion, problems are 90% user error. If people would all install properly and wipe everything completely and follow everything they're told to do and read all possible material on what they're flashing they can, a huge portion of the problems would dissapear. But is that gonna happen? I hope so
Heck I make mistakes too. None of us are immune to screwing up right? Good luck all, happy flashing.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Eckyx said:
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they should and they do, absolutely with every ROM, stock or custom.
If they're purely, properly installed, they're all the same.
By "purely", I meant completely, virgin-like ROM without any add-on.
If you choose to install somethings else, to customize your needs or set it up the way you want, then it's a whole different ball game.
zelendel said:
Simple answer is no not all devices are made the same. You see this with mass produced hardware. As for your PC ref. My brother and I have the same laptop while mine loves my set up, my brother has nothing but problems with it on his system. It comes alot down to personal set up and device. This has always been the case with mobile devices and custom roms. Stock roms are set to run on all devices the same. This is not so with custom roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to chime in on the Windows thing - we buy a standard build HP computer at work for all developers. But if you put the same Windows disk in two of them and boot and install accepting all the defaults, there will always be slight variations in the way it configures itself between the two. It's probably the hardware detection that does it, but I swear you could get two of the same build lot and you'd STILL get something that didn't set up the same way. Sunspots? Power surge during the process? I dunno, but it does vary
You cant change the disk. Your network adapter has a MAC adress on it... windows will know something has changed. motherboard also has one.
A PC component are not the same at all.
You can buy a good I7 2600k or a bad I7 2600k. There are revisions of the very same model of CPU, memory, everything and its really hard to make 1 equal another.
Another thing is that one smartphone is a lot more delicate piece of hardware and the most important, has limited power to it components.
That makes harder to change anything on it. A small change could lead you to a failure.
just blame it on the ghosts in the machine and be done with it
votinh said:
Yes, they should and they do, absolutely with every ROM, stock or custom.
If they're purely, properly installed, they're all the same.
By "purely", I meant completely, virgin-like ROM without any add-on.
If you choose to install somethings else, to customize your needs or set it up the way you want, then it's a whole different ball game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not the case. I have tested with two different EVO 4Gs and two different SGS IIs - of the same hardware revision, even.
I performed the same steps to root and ROM both of the sets of phones, and put the same ROM on them. There were no other apps installed, nor themes/addons. I then used each as my phone for a week, making sure that I installed identical apps and even synced app data.
Both performed differently. My i777 is the faster of the two, but my EVO 4G was the slower and more bug-prone.
Yes, this is anecdotal evidence, but I at least am convinced. Take it as you will.
Also the phones are made with lower quality checks than desktop. ie I can oc my sgs 1 up to 1.6GHz but uv of -25, the phone well restart. But other people can't go more than 1.2 and cab apply a uv of -150 on the same step.
This is a fact. Think if every phone it's done with high quality checks the price of the device will raise pretty high.
Once of the frustrating things is that the people responding on the forums, (ROM devs and regular users) often try to have it both ways.
If you're experiencing something they aren't, it's obviously your fault because it doesn't happen on their one phone so it can't possibly be anything but your own fault. Go wipe 50 times and do other things that will take 3+ hours each time and don't come back until you do.
Oh... you've done all that already and still having the issue? Oh well, all phones are different... tough luck, bro. I'm not going to spend any time on anything my one phone doesn't do.
(Never mind that a dozen other people have reported the exact same issue, and another several dozen are experiencing it but are too scared to post about it because they see how everyone else is being flamed, castrated or even banned for daring to suggest a bug.)
One way or another, it seems a convenient way to blow off users having legit issues.
While I suppose there might be slight deviations in components once in a blue moon, I think the "all phones are different" excuse is more often than not used as a way to easily dismiss people and issues without helping. It's been repeated over and over for so long now, the majority take it as "fact" without really putting much thought into how it could possibly be as widespread and dramatic as they're pretending it is.
I don't buy it.
Even just with modems... everyone's like, "Oh well all phones are different... some modems work better on some phones, or in different areas". What kind of BS is that? How on earth could any phone manufacturer then create a mass-market phone that worked across the country without hacking? I'm sorry, but you can't chastise and criticize the manufacturers for not producing the universal "uber-phone" that works great anywhere while at the same time admitting that "all phones are different" and therefore require hacking for your specific flavor or region. It's hypocritical.
I think it's very, very rare that actual hardware differences between the exact same model phone account for issues people experience, and is more often than not either user or dev (as much as they try to paint themselves as infallible gods) error that they don't want to bother with. "All phones are different" = "F-off, I don't want to deal with this"
sremick said:
Once of the frustrating things is that the people responding on the forums, (ROM devs and regular users) often try to have it both ways.
If you're experiencing something they aren't, it's obviously your fault because it doesn't happen on their one phone so it can't possibly be anything but your own fault. Go wipe 50 times and do other things that will take 3+ hours each time and don't come back until you do.
Oh... you've done all that already and still having the issue? Oh well, all phones are different... tough luck, bro. I'm not going to spend any time on anything my one phone doesn't do.
(Never mind that a dozen other people have reported the exact same issue, and another several dozen are experiencing it but are too scared to post about it because they see how everyone else is being flamed, castrated or even banned for daring to suggest a bug.)
One way or another, it seems a convenient way to blow off users having legit issues.
While I suppose there might be slight deviations in components once in a blue moon, I think the "all phones are different" excuse is more often than not used as a way to easily dismiss people and issues without helping. It's been repeated over and over for so long now, the majority take it as "fact" without really putting much thought into how it could possibly be as widespread and dramatic as they're pretending it is.
I don't buy it.
Even just with modems... everyone's like, "Oh well all phones are different... some modems work better on some phones, or in different areas". What kind of BS is that? How on earth could any phone manufacturer then create a mass-market phone that worked across the country without hacking? I'm sorry, but you can't chastise and criticize the manufacturers for not producing the universal "uber-phone" that works great anywhere while at the same time admitting that "all phones are different" and therefore require hacking for your specific flavor or region. It's hypocritical.
I think it's very, very rare that actual hardware differences between the exact same model phone account for issues people experience, and is more often than not either user or dev (as much as they try to paint themselves as infallible gods) error that they don't want to bother with. "All phones are different" = "F-off, I don't want to deal with this"
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Great so what you're saying is everyone that says this (especially devs) are a bunch of dicks. Nice.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
Great so what you're saying is everyone that says this (especially devs) are a bunch of dicks. Nice.
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That's actually not what I said at all, but I know it's a lot easier to summarize my post into one sentence that makes me look like an ass, than actually look at the points that I made.
sremick said:
That's actually not what I said at all, but I know it's a lot easier to summarize my post into one sentence that makes me look like an ass, than actually look at the points that I made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read the whole thing and that's exactly what it says.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
I read the whole thing and that's exactly what it says.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. But let me simplify it for you:
1) There can't be the level of hardware variation that people claim. It's not seen in other electronics, and it's not been seen before the recent generation of smartphones. The assumption of its existence is a recent phenomenon however if it were real we'd see it everywhere, on other electronics other than phones.
2) If it were to really exist, people would lose the ability to legitimately blame the phone manufacturers for 90% of what they currently give them crap about, especially in regards to making a quality stock ROM. What are they expected to do, create thousands of variations of stock ROMs, one for ever county in the USA to compensate for this accepted "all phones are different" theology?
3) Due to it being repeated over and over and simply assumed to be true without any actual evidence to the fact, it's become a convenient way to dismiss user issues... even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary on a specific issue. This unfortunate trend causes lots of friction between users and devs. Even if it were true, it's now become an over-used dismissal without allowing for the chance that the user might be right.
People can't have it both ways, but right now there's a lot of hypocrisy. If it's true, there's been no evidence actually shown... just anecdotal experiences that could be chalked up to any number of other things. And whether it's true or its not, either way a massive amount of thinking and behavior would then have to then change... but right now, people behave like it's true and not true at the same time, which is nonsensical and frustrating.
The simple answer is, there is no answer. Its the nature of the process.
I've had one click roms fail the 1st attempt only to succeed the 2nd without even closing the Odin just reconnect the phone.
Either you accept that and have fun with it. Or stick to stock and move on.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
sremick said:
Nope. But let me simplify it for you:
1) There can't be the level of hardware variation that people claim. It's not seen in other electronics, and it's not been seen before the recent generation of smartphones. The assumption of its existence is a recent phenomenon however if it were real we'd see it everywhere, on other electronics other than phones.
2) If it were to really exist, people would lose the ability to legitimately blame the phone manufacturers for 90% of what they currently give them crap about, especially in regards to making a quality stock ROM. What are they expected to do, create thousands of variations of stock ROMs, one for ever county in the USA to compensate for this accepted "all phones are different" theology?
3) Due to it being repeated over and over and simply assumed to be true without any actual evidence to the fact, it's become a convenient way to dismiss user issues... even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary on a specific issue. This unfortunate trend causes lots of friction between users and devs. Even if it were true, it's now become an over-used dismissal without allowing for the chance that the user might be right.
People can't have it both ways, but right now there's a lot of hypocrisy. If it's true, there's been no evidence actually shown... just anecdotal experiences that could be chalked up to any number of other things. And whether it's true or its not, either way a massive amount of thinking and behavior would then have to then change... but right now, people behave like it's true and not true at the same time, which is nonsensical and frustrating.
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Click to collapse
No you're actually wrong because sometimes things CAN go wrong with flashing stuff. And modems in fact do work better in some places than others even though they try to make them universal it is very difficult to do that. Also, if a dev doesn't see a problem, how is he supposed to fix it? Riddle me that one. Also, restoring should take at most an hour with something like titanium backup. So 3+ hours is bull.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
if a dev doesn't see a problem, how is he supposed to fix it?
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Click to collapse
He can start by not flaming the several people experiencing it (which scares away others also experiencing it, self-validating him and making him think the problem is less-common than it really is)
There's a difference between a problem being simply difficult for a dev to pin down and solve, and just attacking any user who dares bring up an issue that the dev himself isn't experiencing. Therein lies the hypocrisy, though: if "all phones are different", then a dev has to accept that a problem a user is experiencing might not be the result of stupidity on the user's part, and might actually be something in the ROM that simply didn't surface on the dev's phone, but is still something that needs to be addressed at the ROM level.
I totally accept that an issue the dev can't reproduce on his own phone is harder to resolve. But there are several devs who even make ROMs for phones they don't own anymore, and still manage to work with users to resolve issues. App devs do the same thing to resolve incompatibility bugs/issues with specific phone models the app dev don't own.
Also, restoring should take at most an hour with something like titanium backup. So 3+ hours is bull.
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Click to collapse
Not quite. Just the backup alone takes 45+ mins on my phone. The restore is the same amount, so you've got 1.5 hours right there without taking into account everything else that TB doesn't handle that needs to be reconfigured by hand, or the actual flashing, and tracking down other surprises. And because I apparently am one of the few people who care about their data, I also back up my internal SD... just in-case something goes wrong. I know the wipe shouldn't touch it... but "**** happens" and if something goes wrong during a flash and I didn't have a backup, it'd be my own fault and I'd be subsequently flamed for that. So I play it safe.
Once again, a case of users for whom its quick trying to tell everyone else they're full of BS. I accept that for some users, whether it's the # of apps, amount of data, or whatever, it goes fast for them. Lucky them. Why can't they accept the fact that it's not "10 mins" for everyone like they spread around and flame others for suggesting otherwise?
Ok Here is the thing. I have personally been flashing and making custom roms for phones as far back as the Motorola razor v3. I have multiple phone running the exact same firmware, set up the exact same way and the have run totally differently. If all phone were made equal then there would be no returns due to issues the phone had as they would have all run the same and acted the same as the units that the OEM quality control tested. Lets take the Black Jack 2 as an example. The BJII was a WM phone that would self corrupt the system/media folder. This prevented any ringtones from working and the OS had to be reflashed. All this running on Stock firmware. This didnt happen to all of them, but became a well known glitch to anyone that did cell phone troubleshooting and repair. Did you ever stop to think why OEM and carriers dont use the roms from places like XDA? This is because things here are always under development. There will always be bugs. In the end the developers are making things for their phones and are nice enough to share it for others to use. Some do keep making roms for phones they dont have as this is overly not hard to do. They do this just to be nice. Except for the hardware drivers most of the under lying OS is all the same.
If a dev cant reproduce it then there is no way for them to fix it with the way people tend to report bugs. (The wrong way without the proper info)
Now lets jump to the present. I have 4 phones sitting on my desk. 2 are the HTC Inspire and 2 are the Samsung Captivate. Both running the exact same rom and apps, but guess what. They run very differently. On 1 Inspire and 1 captivate, I can OC to almost double, while the other 2 cant handle more then 1.2 over clock.
One of them also doesnt like the AOSP based software while the others are fine.
As for your backing up and restoring. It can take a long time if you have a TON of apps. Flashing custom roms are not for everyone. If you dont have the time or the want to learn something then you are doing it for the wrong reasons.
sremick said:
He can start by not flaming the several people experiencing it (which scares away others also experiencing it, self-validating him and making him think the problem is less-common than it really is)
There's a difference between a problem being simply difficult for a dev to pin down and solve, and just attacking any user who dares bring up an issue that the dev himself isn't experiencing. Therein lies the hypocrisy, though: if "all phones are different", then a dev has to accept that a problem a user is experiencing might not be the result of stupidity on the user's part, and might actually be something in the ROM that simply didn't surface on the dev's phone, but is still something that needs to be addressed at the ROM level.
I totally accept that an issue the dev can't reproduce on his own phone is harder to resolve. But there are several devs who even make ROMs for phones they don't own anymore, and still manage to work with users to resolve issues. App devs do the same thing to resolve incompatibility bugs/issues with specific phone models the app dev don't own.
Not quite. Just the backup alone takes 45+ mins on my phone. The restore is the same amount, so you've got 1.5 hours right there without taking into account everything else that TB doesn't handle that needs to be reconfigured by hand, or the actual flashing, and tracking down other surprises. And because I apparently am one of the few people who care about their data, I also back up my internal SD... just in-case something goes wrong. I know the wipe shouldn't touch it... but "**** happens" and if something goes wrong during a flash and I didn't have a backup, it'd be my own fault and I'd be subsequently flamed for that. So I play it safe.
Once again, a case of users for whom its quick trying to tell everyone else they're full of BS. I accept that for some users, whether it's the # of apps, amount of data, or whatever, it goes fast for them. Lucky them. Why can't they accept the fact that it's not "10 mins" for everyone like they spread around and flame others for suggesting otherwise?
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Click to collapse
I agree with your point about the dev/user relationship. It can get pretty hostile sometimes which is completely unnecessary. Recently, I've been trying to emphasize the respect rule, regardless of who you are. Patience and cooperation can go a long way. And as zelendel said, sometimes people do report stuff the wrong way, but there's no need to be rude about it. Again, patience goes a long way.
Back to the main thing though, I'm not entirely sure how 2 fresh-out-of-the-box phones would work with the same settings and ROMs, but as others said, environmental and external factors can stress the phone and stuff just goes wrong. My phone, for example, would not operate the same as a fresh-out-of-the-box SGS2, even if you put the exact same stuff on it. Stuff just starts freaking out, and I'm pretty sure my phone is having hardware issues :[
from a end users POV i mean?
why can't i get a new phone, install supersu from the play store, go to dev options or security, and enable root and point to supersu to handle it?
no security holes needed to get root and far less hassle for us end users to get to do what we want with our phones
is it just an attitude thing by google and the OEMs or a more technical thing?
well...what I can see is that the general public don't need or care for these functions. And they are quite good security locks. The ones who don't know what these functions are will not attempt to unlock the bootloader etc etc.
If for example these functions are visible in the settings menu and someone who just got their device scrolling the menus and finds this interesting button.
hmm..It says "root"? Beneath is another button says "unlock bootloader".
WOOW! Lets press the buttons and see what happens!!! :laugh::laugh:
And somehow the user bricked the device because the person didn't have any knowledge of what was going on.
There is probably more to it like warranty questions.
but it wouldn't be visible - like on this phone you had to know where to go to enable dev options so an average user wouldn't see it at all.
plus not all devices have locked bootloaders either. this is my 1st since the HTC desire.
I'll just quote "Kay" from Man In Black;
"A person is smart. People are dumb"
People in general are so soo stupid and they would tap something and three seconds later SystemUI would've been gone. Not likely of course, but you know that guy who's everywhere and manages to do some pretty stupid stuff with everything he touches. With that said, i think every single individual at XDA would love to have a pre-rooted device, or simply have (like you say) a toggle in the developer settings or something, but we all know how stupid people are, so i understand why it's not an option.
I would rather have a simple procedure like the Nexus' have where you have to know what you're about to do, and you can do it. If you do that, you probably know what root means, and you won't try to delete the system folder.
LordManhattan said:
I'll just quote "Kay" from Man In Black;
"A person is smart. People are dumb"
People in general are so soo stupid and they would tap something and three seconds later SystemUI would've been gone. Not likely of course, but you know that guy who's everywhere and manages to do some pretty stupid stuff with everything he touches. With that said, i think every single individual at XDA would love to have a pre-rooted device, or simply have (like you say) a toggle in the developer settings or something, but we all know how stupid people are, so i understand why it's not an option.
I would rather have a simple procedure like the Nexus' have where you have to know what you're about to do, and you can do it. If you do that, you probably know what root means, and you won't try to delete the system folder.
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Click to collapse
I have to agree with the OP though. Because even Linux itself comes with su. Windows comes with Administrator mode. So it shouldn't be a problem to provide root into the system even though majority of people doesn't know what are they doing. If something goes wrong, just recommend them to flash again (in Windows term, format and fresh install) even then google already provides contact backup so it shouldn't take a long time. Unlocking the bootloader on the other hand..
Sent from my C6802 using xda app-developers app
Sure, but does your mom or sister use Linux, or even a terminal/CMD? No they do not. Linux is a "niche" OS, and the people that uses it knows what it is and what it does. Geeks. Being a Windows admin is not nearly as dangerous as having root in Android or Linux. You can destroy the whole system by deleting one file. And flashing and formatting is something few people do. There's a reason why I hate it when friends and family start messing around with their devices, because I know that I'll have to either take a look at the damn thing or reformat it next week.
People are morons when it comes to technology. WE are a special group of people that spend A LOT of time with these things, so it's natural that we want it all. Regular people on the other hand want to check Facebook and use Spotify. Throw the whole kitchen sink into the OS and people will get confused and get an iPhone, or simply stop using it for what it is or could be. Remember that we are the minority here. Android is a mainstream OS that is meant for regular people and should be simple to use, but advanced under the hood (so people like us can play with it).
If you take a closer look at KitKat, you'll notice that Google have made some tiny changes, like the arrow on the lock screen that tells you that if you drag the arrow up, you'll open Google Now. Also notice the camera icon on the lock screen. Tap it and it'll move a little - like a hint for people that you can slide it to open the camera. Google understands that people need guidance and not hidden shortcuts and more gestures. We may know about all the features and easter eggs, but that's because we're actively looking for them. People in general are not.
My point is, people don't care. WE, the geeks are the minority and not the main group of people OEM's are thinking about when they make devices. We, the geeks already have devices that are targeted at us and it's called "Nexus".
/rant
Sent from my C6833 using Tapatalk
LordManhattan said:
Sure, but does your mom or sister use Linux, or even a terminal/CMD? No they do not. Linux is a "niche" OS, and the people that uses it knows what it is and what it does. Geeks. Being a Windows admin is not nearly as dangerous as having root in Android or Linux. You can destroy the whole system by deleting one file. And flashing and formatting is something few people do. There's a reason why I hate it when friends and family start messing around with their devices, because I know that I'll have to either take a look at the damn thing or reformat it next week.
People are morons when it comes to technology. WE are a special group of people that spend A LOT of time with these things, so it's natural that we want it all. Regular people on the other hand want to check Facebook and use Spotify. Throw the whole kitchen sink into the OS and people will get confused and get an iPhone, or simply stop using it for what it is or could be. Remember that we are the minority here. Android is a mainstream OS that is meant for regular people and should be simple to use, but advanced under the hood (so people like us can play with it).
If you take a closer look at KitKat, you'll notice that Google have made some tiny changes, like the arrow on the lock screen that tells you that if you drag the arrow up, you'll open Google Now. Also notice the camera icon on the lock screen. Tap it and it'll move a little - like a hint for people that you can slide it to open the camera. Google understands that people need guidance and not hidden shortcuts and more gestures. We may know about all the features and easter eggs, but that's because we're actively looking for them. People in general are not.
My point is, people don't care. WE, the geeks are the minority and not the main group of people OEM's are thinking about when they make devices. We, the geeks already have devices that are targeted at us and it's called "Nexus".
/rant
Sent from my C6833 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But if people really don't care, why Microsoft and Linux devs give such Administrator access to their 'Home edition' software? We bought the device and the ROM so why such restriction compared to a casual desktop solution? Following Google's logic to make it easy user friendly as it is, just put it in hidden place like developer option and boom problem solved. No casual user would ever know about tapping the Android build number continuously. Plus with a revised policy for warranty will be nice, for example, it will be void if you ever unlocked the bootloader of the device, because imho, that is the lifeline nowadays to guarantee that your device is still recoverable with some flashing. Casual super user activity shouldn't be closed completely i'd say (i.e Titanium backup anyone?).
Hmmm, someone corrects me if I'm wrong, but isn't rooting on Android or Linux more risky if the user has no idea what they're doing?
Windows allows users to do some stuff but the worst thing you could do is mess it up so bad you have to do a clean install. There might not be a link from changing something in windows to completely screw up BIOS.
Now for rooting on Android, the average Joe hears about it, cool, let's press some buttons. Then some people mentions about kernels and radios, cool, let's flash some. Bam, phone gone. As some other have said, people will never cease to amaze you with their stupidity. So in Google and OEM's mind, it's best to make it as inaccessible as possible to avoid having some dumbass sue them for including something "potentially risky" in their devices.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using xda app-developers app
Yo_2T said:
Hmmm, someone corrects me if I'm wrong, but isn't rooting on Android or Linux more risky if the user has no idea what they're doing?
Windows allows users to do some stuff but the worst thing you could do is mess it up so bad you have to do a clean install. There might not be a link from changing something in windows to completely screw up BIOS.
Now for rooting on Android, the average Joe hears about it, cool, let's press some buttons. Then some people mentions about kernels and radios, cool, let's flash some. Bam, phone gone. As some other have said, people will never cease to amaze you with their stupidity. So in Google and OEM's mind, it's best to make it as inaccessible as possible to avoid having some dumbass sue them for including something "potentially risky" in their devices.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is more risky but as i said in my post, warranty void IF the bootloader (ie the BIOS in desktop terms) is unlocked because even if you mess up the phone, there's always PC Companion fresh install if you still have locked bootloader, just like Windows fresh install, so therefore, Root/Admin priv should not be cut off completely from the system.
LordManhattan said:
Sure, but does your mom or sister use Linux, or even a terminal/CMD? No they do not. Linux is a "niche" OS, and the people that uses it knows what it is and what it does. Geeks. Being a Windows admin is not nearly as dangerous as having root in Android or Linux. You can destroy the whole system by deleting one file. And flashing and formatting is something few people do. There's a reason why I hate it when friends and family start messing around with their devices, because I know that I'll have to either take a look at the damn thing or reformat it next week.
People are morons when it comes to technology. WE are a special group of people that spend A LOT of time with these things, so it's natural that we want it all. Regular people on the other hand want to check Facebook and use Spotify. Throw the whole kitchen sink into the OS and people will get confused and get an iPhone, or simply stop using it for what it is or could be. Remember that we are the minority here. Android is a mainstream OS that is meant for regular people and should be simple to use, but advanced under the hood (so people like us can play with it).
If you take a closer look at KitKat, you'll notice that Google have made some tiny changes, like the arrow on the lock screen that tells you that if you drag the arrow up, you'll open Google Now. Also notice the camera icon on the lock screen. Tap it and it'll move a little - like a hint for people that you can slide it to open the camera. Google understands that people need guidance and not hidden shortcuts and more gestures. We may know about all the features and easter eggs, but that's because we're actively looking for them. People in general are not.
My point is, people don't care. WE, the geeks are the minority and not the main group of people OEM's are thinking about when they make devices. We, the geeks already have devices that are targeted at us and it's called "Nexus".
/rant
Sent from my C6833 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe but the nexus is an extremely limited device and not something i'd ever consider without google making major changes.
i don't see how something like this would mess up the average user either. i mean if you have a hidden dev options menu you have to unhide, then you have to download supersu and then enable root in dev options.
if someone does all that then they know what they're getting into and must have read some guide to get there. no different to now really.
I think kit all depends on the people who set the first stone for these mobile operating systems. They obviously didn't think of them in the same sense as computer OS, so they just do things in certain ways. And I think from the way the market has evolved, Google hasn't found a reason to incorporate such features into Android because there's no real demand for it. You know how sometimes it doesn't take companies to do certain things, but they just don't do it. (like the freaking battery percentage on Android).
Sent from my SGH-M919 using xda app-developers app
We have been through five phones -Samsung Galaxy, then Motorola, two internet providers two cell phone providers, made so many calls I have lost count. He uses Chromebook and a Motorola Droid phone. He has even hacked my old home phone, tv, you name it, he has tried to own it . Oh, I forgot-my home security and ring doorbells also. I can change an app permission and I can see him go right in and change it back. I am sure he lives close in the neighborhood How do I get rid of this horrible person?
He grays out permissions, default apps, etc., Which keeps me from being able to delete an app, or change someone being able to access in the background. He has confiscated our emails (Gmail), prevents us from sending or receiving ones he doesn't like. He uses email for email on the web, advertising, chat, and many other things. He listens to phone calls steals all photos, maps addresses to companies or people in contacts, uses maps for ?? Xxx an anyone help me, or at least tell me how to reverse graying out on apps? This has become unbearable! Thank you!
How do you know it's a he?
It's always the girl next door.
Lol! I cannot prove it, but the big gamers nextdoor moved in when this started happening. Their best friend is an experienced IT guy who only appears when I have gone in and changed things. In those days, new changes happen, such as Ring doorbells hacker, etc. Not blaming, but coincidence?
blackhawk said:
How do you know it's a he?
It's always the girl next door.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry. See reply in post.
Bro, I'm so sorry. My husband has been going through this VERY thing for the past year. They don't mess with mine. I just wanted to let you know even though I don't have any resolve for you, I hear you and know that it's not phony and we totally feel for you. Seriously, maybe you and my hubby can talk. I'm so sorry that you're going through it. Feel free to message me.
This sounds like a great fan fiction and will bookmark this to see how the story develops. Thank you for putting this in Moto G Power section right where it belongs!
Sounds like you might need to invest in a router with better security features.
Moosetears said:
This sounds like a great fan fiction and will bookmark this to see how the story develops. Thank you for putting this in Moto G Power section right where it belongs!
Sounds like you might need to invest in a router with better security features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely not fiction. It is a nightmare and could REALLY use some advice!
gunnshot81488 said:
Bro, I'm so sorry. My husband has been going through this VERY thing for the past year. They don't mess with mine. I just wanted to let you know even though I don't have any resolve for you, I hear you and know that it's not phony and we totally feel for you. Seriously, maybe you and my hubby can talk. I'm so sorry that you're going through it. Feel free to message me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has been a nightmare! They started with mine, and have now invaded my husband's phone also.
Scammed said:
It has been a nightmare! They started with mine, and have now invaded my husband's phone also.
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Why are you posting on XDA? If you are this convinced that someone has unauthorized access to your devices, you need to be talking to law enforcement. The best advice we can offer you is to change all your passwords immediately, enable 2 factor authentication, and if possible seek a restraining order. XDA is a smart device hacking and development community, not a private investigation service.
V0latyle said:
Why are you posting on XDA? If you are this convinced that someone has unauthorized access to your devices, you need to be talking to law enforcement. The best advice we can offer you is to change all your passwords immediately, enable 2 factor authentication, and if possible seek a restraining order. XDA is a smart device hacking and development community, not a private investigation service.
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I didn't think you were a p.i. firm. Obviously, I am not tech savvy. A little kindness please? I simply want to know how to ungray grayed out app permissions. I have searched on my own and cannot find the answer. I have reported it to local police, state police, Motorola, Samsung, Verizon, Xfinity, metronet, on and on and on. No help from anyone. I don't have $2,500.00 to just put down a retainer for a p.i. I knew someone on this forum would know the answer I am searching for and might kindly tell me. Thank you.
Scammed said:
I didn't think you were a p.i. firm. Obviously, I am not tech savvy. A little kindness please? I simply want to know how to ungray grayed out app permissions. I have searched on my own and cannot find the answer. I have reported it to local police, state police, Motorola, Samsung, Verizon, Xfinity, metronet, on and on and on. No help from anyone. I don't have $2,500.00 to just put down a retainer for a p.i. I knew someone on this forum would know the answer I am searching for and might kindly tell me. Thank you.
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Well, it can be hard to distinguish the difference between reasonable concern over privacy violations vs unwarranted paranoia, and you aren't the only one who's come to XDA with this type of story. Most of your assumptions are likely mistaken and can be simply explained by the nature of Android itself.
Remote intrusion of mobile devices is actually pretty rare. The most common ways bad actors get ahold of sensitive user information are: phishing, user-approved permissions on questionable apps such as TikTok, and "connected" social media accounts, where users allow websites and apps access to their social media profiles, or use their social media as a login.
Regardless, to the technical point of the matter, grayed out app permissions are not the result of hacking or surreptitious malfeasance, but rather the nature of the "rules" inherent to Android - you can't remove system apps or disable system-controlled permissions without root.
If you still think you have reasons for concern, this is my only suggestion:
Change your phone number
Immediately change all relevant passwords - minimum 10 characters, a mix of upper case, lower case, numbers, and special characters, do not reuse them
Enable 2 factor authentication on all accounts, ensuring your 2nd factor is something that you and only you have access to
Once done, sign out all devices signed into those accounts
Perform a factory reset on your device; even better, reflash factory firmware. Keep bootloader locked.
Do not use questionable apps