[Q] Force Close loop and then some - Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

I flashed Eugene's Vibrant9 and it was working fine. I was testing a backup application I have and did a master reset through recovery. Wiped cache and user data. Now when I start up a lot of processes force close, but one continues to the point where I cannot do ANYTHING on the phone. android.process.media/phone is in the force close.
My thought is if I had an update.zip saved to the internal memory I could run through recovery and flash that, but for some reason I do not. Without being able to get into the phone to mount I cannot move the file to the internal memory.
Right now my thought is I either have to find a way to be able to the notifications to mount the SD or there be another way to make this work. I have tried going through safe mode and it is no different than booting the normal way.
Any suggestions?

And it's fixed. It required quite a bit of work.
First one problem was it unrooted itself when I did this.
Push the root zip through adb and flash. Do the same for clockwork recovery. Do the same with the rom. Problem solved.
Never again.

Related

[Q] Ghost of ROMs past haunts my Vibrant

I've been stuck in a weird place for some time with my phone. After I installed clockwork mod, backed up, installed some flavour of FroYo, and made the mistake of trying to flash back my old back up without properly wiping things have been getting weird. I can use ODIN to flash fresh ROMs, but I always get a bunch of FCs at startup, and most apps don't work. I tried to do all kinds of tricks to completely wipe the internal SD, but there is always some remnants of old fun hanging about causing cascading errors and FCs. No matter what I try to do, MyBackupPro and Rommanager is always present, but not working.
How I can completely rid myself of anything not stock ROM?
I've finally gotten back to root ADB, after a long and hard battle. I believe this may hold the key to salvation for my Vibrant.
Any and all suggestions are much appreciated!
Things I've already tried:
EUGENE373_SamsungS_Froyo_PDA -> Stock 2.1 T959UVJFD
EUGENE373_SamsungS_Froyo_PDA -> battery pull -> Stock 2.1 T959UVJFD
Stock 2.1 T959UVJFD -> EUGENE373_SamsungS_Froyo_PDA
Bionix1.9.zip - would not install due to some error I can't recall right now. Will update.
Factory wipe - from Settings menu
Wipe in Clockworkmod menu
Wipe all in adb shell
The weird *2767*3855#* factory wipe
UPDATE:
Strangest thing happened: I flashed an old ROM back onto the phone with Odin 1.52, then the Updated Stock 2.1 also via Odin the usual FC-ing was still there. Then I rebooted into recovery, reinstalled the Clockworkmod recovery menu, installed the root-update.zip in order to have root shell access. Then I pushed VibrantDeodexed1_2.zip and Vibrantfroyo_R3.zip on to the sd card. I tried to apply the VibrantDeodexed1_2.zip, but it aborted due to some catalog not present. However, I did notice that the installation erased /system and deleted some files, and I had the notion to try and install the VibrantFroyo_R3.zip. The installation succeeded, and Lo and Behold!
the phone has returned to the land of the living! Wohoo!!
I do not fully understand how this can be, but there is no Force Closing of programs any longer. What a relief!
Thanks to everybody who contributed ideas!
If you're having problems, back up whatever data you want to keep to your computer. Go download eugenes 2.2 that doesn't brick. Flash that, do a battery pull once it's done (don't reboot). Then go get a stock eclair file, flash that with odin and check repartition. This solved every problem I had from flashing way too many roms.
Yea, when in doubt I thank the deities for Eugene and flash his "Froyo that doesn't brick" followed by the stock JFD firmware.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
brnagndan said:
If you're having problems, back up whatever data you want to keep to your computer. Go download eugenes 2.2 that doesn't brick. Flash that, do a battery pull once it's done (don't reboot). Then go get a stock eclair file, flash that with odin and check repartition. This solved every problem I had from flashing way too many roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to say, that trying this solved nothing. Just the same as before.
ullrotta said:
Sorry to say, that trying this solved nothing. Just the same as before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You clicked the "repartition" option? That should format your internal sd...
I7oobie said:
You clicked the "repartition" option? That should format your internal sd...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's the weird part.. It doesn't really delete anything. Files are still there, and so are the un-wanted system files, too.
Does anyone know if I can manually partition the sdcard?
Had a similar issue, and couldn't fully erase my files. Figured out how to completely erase everything, before you proceed, backup your files and be ready to Odin. In rom manager, enable advanced mode in settings, then use the flash alternate recovery option. That set my current cwm version to 2.5.1.2, now when I reboot to cwm i have a menu that says something similar to "sd and storage" and within that menu are options to completely format all of the internal storage. Be careful in there, you can delete everything, incl the sd ext, but I think this is what you are looking for.
Edited - I rebooted and checked the menus, mounts and storage in cwm is what you are looking for after flashing the alternate recovery, I can confirm this removes remnants that an Odin repartition or factory format still leaves behind, let me reiterate, backup your personal files, cause this does remove everything
After formatting, Odin away
Sent from my T959 running Bionix1.91 with Jacs OC/UV and Voodoo
same thing happened to me >.> I just formatted the SD card on the phone. then flashed whatever rom I wanted.
Br1cK'd said:
Had a similar issue, and couldn't fully erase my files. Figured out how to completely erase everything, before you proceed, backup your files and be ready to Odin. In rom manager, enable advanced mode in settings, then use the flash alternate recovery option. That set my current cwm version to 2.5.1.2, now when I reboot to cwm i have a menu that says something similar to "sd and storage" and within that menu are options to completely format all of the internal storage. Be careful in there, you can delete everything, incl the sd ext, but I think this is what you are looking for.
Edited - I rebooted and checked the menus, mounts and storage in cwm is what you are looking for after flashing the alternate recovery, I can confirm this removes remnants that an Odin repartition or factory format still leaves behind, let me reiterate, backup your personal files, cause this does remove everything
After formatting, Odin away
Sent from my T959 running Bionix1.91 with Jacs OC/UV and Voodoo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I boot into recovery, I always have to reinstall packages to get to the CWM recovery menu. I tried to clear everything from the mounts and storage submenu; I cleared system, cache and data, then flashed stock eclair. STILL the same applications and files sit on the internal SD.
When performing the wiping, all looks normal. It does take a little time, and the system reports that all is going according to plan, yet no files are deleted.
What can possibly make the phone act this way? Are there no super secret samsung-technician codes that allow me to completely wipe clean the face of the sdcard?
When you get into the storage and mounts menu, I would format everything given what you're experiencing. Format boot, data, system, cache, and sdcard. Dont format the sd ext, thats the physical card. After formatting all of those your phone should be an odin ready blank slate, mine was. Hope this helps.
Sent from my T959 running Bionix1.9 with Jacs OC/UV and Voodoo
this has to be one of the most useful threads. just last night i was messing with rom manager and enabled advanced settings, BEEFORE reading this thread. I've done so much monkeying, but didn't keep a journal or log, so ive got **** from so many hacks and tweaks (mods and themes)...
thanks, im gonna wipe this ****er clean.
Good Info..but moved to Q&A
Br1cK'd said:
When you get into the storage and mounts menu, I would format everything given what you're experiencing. Format boot, data, system, cache, and sdcard. Dont format the sd ext, thats the physical card. After formatting all of those your phone should be an odin ready blank slate, mine was. Hope this helps.
Sent from my T959 running Bionix1.9 with Jacs OC/UV and Voodoo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly what I tried yesterday. I'll try it again a few times to see if I can find a way.
ullrotta said:
This is exactly what I tried yesterday. I'll try it again a few times to see if I can find a way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was hoping that would help you friend, that process wiped mine clean of all remnants. Good luck in getting her back into a functional state.
After reading som more, contacting Samsung Service, I've decided to send the phone in for service. [sigh]
I've learnt a lot about ADB, pushing and pulling files, rooting, unrooting, swapping ROMS and whatnot. Still, the phone is stuck in that weird place where I cannot delete files.
Hopefully the service team can fix this poor, misguided phone

[Q] Cant delete anything.

Hey guys I have been trolling this forum for some very useful information, and it has helped me quite a bit, but on this one I am stuck. Every time I try and delete something on this phone (Samsung Vibrant) it just comes back. This was not my phone before, I am just trying to put it back to stock.
I have flashed the phone 3 times using odin, including using the re-partition option.
When I hook the phone up to the pc, and load update.zip into the root folder, and reboot into recovery mode, it says cannot find sd card/update.zip. Even when I go in and manually delete apps if I reboot the phone, they all just come back.
Am I missing something? part of me wants to say its something easy.. but I have searched and searched about this and found nothing. Is there a mod out there that does this? -Thanks
*edit* Oh, and it seems like any time I think I might get close, I get the little android and the triange w/ the exclamation point.
Bueller?
How are you deleting? What are you deleting? Why are you using odin to delete apps? Not enough info to help you.
Hi, I am just trying to totally wipe the phone back to stock, hence odin. I dont care about info being lost. But like I said.. if I go in and manage applications, and remove them manually, I restart the phone and like magic they are all back.. I am quite confused. I hook the phone up to the pc, open the phone and manually delete pics and songs that way.. unplug the phone from the pc, and its like i never did anything.
jorsh03 said:
Hi, I am just trying to totally wipe the phone back to stock, hence odin. I dont care about info being lost. But like I said.. if I go in and manage applications, and remove them manually, I restart the phone and like magic they are all back.. I am quite confused. I hook the phone up to the pc, open the phone and manually delete pics and songs that way.. unplug the phone from the pc, and its like i never did anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want to wipe the best thing to do is flash Eugene's Froyo that does not brick. That will get rid of EVERYTHING. From there flash JFD. That will give you the clean start you want.
icandy75 said:
If you want to wipe the best thing to do is flash Eugene's Froyo that does not brick. That will get rid of EVERYTHING. From there flash JFD. That will give you the clean start you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that is the problem. I already did that, and the stuff is still there. I did it 3 times. I flashed it with the 512 pit, did a re-partition and the JFD. Then went back and even updated it to the JI6 firmware, and loaded it with the stock kernel.
I'll help you out before you needlessly flash roms over and over and over.
Before you say, "WTF!!!! That doesn't answer my question" please read to the end.
1. As I understand your problem, you want to wide everything from your INTERNAL SD Card.
2. as such, The steps are as follows:
3. Go to settings.
4. Go to "SD Card and phone storage"
5. "Unmount phone storage"
6. "Format phone storage"
This is assuming that you are ALREADY on stock Rom.
If not, flash the stock first, then wipe your internal SD.
Remove your External SD and SIM card. *(Not required), but i'm paranoid, and this always helps me feel better on the off chance that something does happen while i'm wiping the internal SD.
GL
That was first thing I tried to do, sorry I didnt post that in OP. I tried to unmount and format using the in phone software. I have tried a hard reset using the button combinations on the phone. I have also done a factory format using the service code. All to no avail.
Thanks for the input.. believe me, if I could have avoided the time and hassle of reading about odin I would have. Odin was a last resort.
I dont know if this is helpful or not but after I format the internal sd.
Total Space: 13.18 GB
Free Space 12.31 GB
I am really beginning to think that the internal SD is broken/corrupted or something. As I said in the OP when I boot into recovery, it says it cannot find sdcard/update.zip. Furthermore, if I mount the usb as mass storage, and go into the folders and delete pictures/whatnot. Even if I unplug the phone from the computer, its as if I never did anything. The pictures will all still be there as if nothing happened. If I go in and manage apps, and remove them all one by one, then reboot the phone all the apps are there. These are all reasons why I think the internal storage is messed up.
I was/am quite confused. This is why I requested ideas from people smarter than me.. i.e you guys . Thanks for all the input this far, my OP was a little lacking I suppose.
Did you ever get problem resolved?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
@jorsh :
I had the same problem with u. Can't delete few old files that stored in the internal SD. Also, I can't use update.zip in the recovery mode. It says "cannot find sdcard/update.zip.
My phone also can't play MP3 file or 3GP file that transfered from other phone / PC.
Anyone can help us ?
How are you deleting the files?
What are you running?
the update.zip, are you guys talking about rooting, or clockwork recovery?
Sorry, thanksgiving was preventing me from following the thread. The problem is still unresolved. I was trying the update.zip in recovery mode, as far as I know there is no clockwork on the phone. I thought the update.zip was just a recovery image that the phone used as a basis for restoring the phone.
s15274n said:
How are you deleting the files?
What are you running?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have tried deleting files a few different ways.
Odin, directly via pc with usb mount, and using the software on the phone itself, and tried using factory formats/resets hard and soft.
What do you mean by what am I running?
i just buy a used vibrant. There are some photos & files in the internal memory. I can erase it with file manager, but when I restart the phone, those photos & files appear again.
Same thing with with the gmail account. This gmail account is sign up by previous user. I can't remove this account.
I already try using "factory reset", but it's useless. Those photos & gmail account still in my phone.
I'm running in 2.1 T959UVJI2
about the update.zip, I'm using for rooting. I can't root the phone too. I'm using the file "SGH-959 Root Update.zip" then rename it to "update.zip"
I put this update.zip that the root folder of my internal SD. Bad thing is, this file is gone when I restart my phone (turn off then turn on). So, when I goes to recovery mode, it always said : cannot find sd card/update.zip
anybody can help me ? pleaseeee. So frustated >.<
Yeah that sounds pretty much exactly like my problems.
Perhaps people are having a hard time helping because we cant determine what you are trying to do....
first, yes, there is a clockwork recovery... download rom manager from the market.
there are going to be folders on the internal memory you can not remove because the OS puts them there.
could you please say exactly what you want to do???
I am just trying to delete everything and basically restore the phone back to factory. But it seems like the normal ways of doing that are not working.
Use ODIN to go to stock ji6 or jk2. I have a guide in my signature
Once you reboot mount the internal memory and format it. Settings > sd card and phone storage
s15274n said:
Use ODIN to go to stock ji6 or jk2. I have a guide in my signature
Once you reboot mount the internal memory and format it. Settings > sd card and phone storage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok ok.... I'll try at weekend. I'm out of town in few days. Thx for the info.
please report back, want to make sure all is well

[Q] Ok..so I grew a pair and I'm rooted and backed up. (( update.zip question ))

I was in Clockwork Recovery after backing up my stock system (this is my first time) it gave me the options in green text: Reboot, reinstall update.zip, etc.
I chose reboot and everything loaded up fine and after checking in Rom Manager I have a backup of my system. I just want to know if that was the right choice. or should I have reinstalled update.zip
I guess my question revolves around update.zip.
What is that file? I know I originally used it to gain root access but do I need to reinstall it from clockwork recovery everytime before rebooting? and when should I delete it? and are there any negative consequences for not doing either?
As you can tell I'm a noob....but hey I can't believe I'm rooted and backed up at the moment. I'm gonna stop here before flashing any custonm roms and get this question answered first.
I think you are fine. I would not worry so much, i have deleted the update.zip, but since you booted up into ClockWork Recovery you are most likely fine.
I am booted back up completely and the stock os is running and I'm still rooted. I just want to know what that option inside of clockwork recovery means. What is the reason to reinstall update.zip from clockwork recovery and what is the reason to reboot? And once I'm booted back up and running when/why do I go into my files and delete update.zip?
It's not that I'm worried...I just want to know why I'm doing what I'm doing.
I would keep the file. Less chance of failure.
You are only going to use cwr for this:
Backup/restore system
Wipe cache, factory wipe, etc
Flashing rom's (install from sd card)
Don't worry about the other stuff.
I'm confused by the op, not sure how you made a backup from how it reads.
I think I made the backup by flashing into clockwork recovery from rom manager. It started with the purple text recovery mode and I hit reinstall packets. Then it went into the green text clockwork recovery....I think. I've only done it once.
So in clockwork recovery I choose the backup/restore option and then the backup option. So then the phone I assume began the backup process and displayed many lines of white text. At the very end it said something about not being able to mount my ext sd card (which) had me worried.....but then it brought up the menu again. The top option was reboot, the second was reinstall update.zip and I didn't pay attention to the rest because I was pretty sure I needed one of the first two....I just didn't know which one. I selected reboot and the phone then booted into the stock os and was still rooted. Is the fact that it wasn't able to mount my ext sd card at the end of the backup process an issue? I'm able to find a backup in rom manager. Also, if the backup process works correctly should the phone reboot by itself?
What I'm asking is what am I booting from when I choose "reboot" from clockwork recovery and what does it mean to choose "reinstall (packet?) update.zip"? I thought update.zip was what I needed to root.
This last step wasn't in your tutorial (purple text menu) so maybe something didn't go as it should have.
I'm not sure.
Thanks s15274n for the tutorial btw. Its by far the most helpful concise instructions I've found and is really appreciated.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
The update.zip in the root of the internal SD card is clockwork recovery (CR). When you install CR it does not overwrite your phone's recovery. What it does is install that update.zip in the root of the SD card. When you want to use CR, you need to "update packages" which will flash that update.zip which contains the CR package. That will load CR into memory only and still does not overwrite the original recovery on the phone. When you reboot into recovery from ROM Manager, it automatically reboots and applies the update.zip and places you into CR. If you enter recovery manually (via buttons on boot), you will need to "re-install packages" from the stock recovery to get CR.
So if you want to use CR, keep that update.zip in the root of the SD card. If you erase it, you will need to re-install it (using ROM Manager) before you can use CR instead of the stock recovery. I hope that makes sense. If not, here is the explanation straight from Koush on how it works.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=734164&highlight=clockwork
^^ You are all good then.
The SD-EXT is not going to backup, because you do not have a partiotion on your external SD card (no need for one, like some other phones require). This is normal from what you described.
You will never use the apply update.zip option in CWR... just dont pay any mind to it.
When you select reboot system now, that is all it is.... you are basically saying "Cool, I did everything I needed to do (backup/flash a rom/wipe, etc)... and now I am ready to reboot my phone... ie, you are basically cutting your phone on.
Positive you did, but you can open rom manager, click on manage backups and you should see a file there that has a format kinda like YYYYMMDDTIME, that is the backup you made... no action needed, just an easy way to verify you made a backup of your system.
s15274n said:
I would keep the file. Less chance of failure.
You are only going to use cwr for this:
Backup/restore system
Wipe cache, factory wipe, etc
Flashing rom's (install from sd card)
Don't worry about the other stuff.
I'm confused by the op, not sure how you made a backup from how it reads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks s15274n
i have been wondering the same thing about the update.zip file whether to keep it or not.
Thanks s15274n for the tutorial btw. Its by far the most helpful concise instructions I've found and is really appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also wanted to say i feel the same way. Appreciate the guide so much!
Thanks guys. I'm glad to have that cleared up so I understand it. Gives me more confidence to do the other things I want to do.
I got confused with the fact that I need to delete the update.zip file after rooting and the fact thats its there again after flashing cw and backing up.
Sometimes I need things spelled out for me. Makes complete sense now.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

[Q] CWM error while making backup image of /data

This error is still not answered on the forums so im starting a new thread.
i get the error as the title.
sd card space is not the problem.
i tried formatting the sd card.
i have less than 50 apps installed.
wiped dalvik cache, and all other sorts people say on other posts.
(my phone is LG P936 so "fix permission" screws up the phone. all text disappears)
have latest cwm recovery.
and still get the error.
any answers please?
and please dont reply if you are going to write an opinion.
only answers please.
sorry for my rude behaviour but I'm sick and tired of reading posts full of opinions and "maybe"s.
Not sure if you ever got this fixed but I 'm suffering from the same error. I tried pretty much everything you tried (even fix permissions) and I have about 20GB free on my SD card so space shouldn't be an issue. I have not yet tried formatting the SD card since it has always worked and CWM is able to write to it because the following files are created:
- boot.img
- data.ext3.tar
- recovery.img
- system.ext3.tar
The files that are missing are (based on older backups):
- .android_secure.vfat.tar
- cache.ext3.tar (probably because I wiped it first?)
- nandroid.md5
I have attached the log from CWM in the hopes that someone can tell me what is wrong. The error occurs at the end of the progress bar of 'backing up /data'.
hey just use TWRP Recovery. It's way better than CWM. normal backup on cwm took me like an hour but twrp was never longer than 10minutes.
Today I have formatted the SD card and tried again, but as expected it did not change anything.
ceoleaders said:
hey just use TWRP Recovery. It's way better than CWM. normal backup on cwm took me like an hour but twrp was never longer than 10minutes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I will give this a try. Can I just install it over CWM or can they run side by side?
different reciveries cannot be run side by side as they are installed on a different partition. so it will always be installed over your current one.
ceoleaders said:
different reciveries cannot be run side by side as they are installed on a different partition. so it will always be installed over your current one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I tried TWRP and it also fails at backing up my data partition. The log is a bit more clear though and it seems to get stuck on "/data/data/com.android.vending/cache/images" which is the last line before it gives an error. I checked the "images" folder and it seems empty but I cannot delete it. Tried ES File Explorer and Terminal Emulator but no way to get rid of it. The folder appears to be related to Google Play, so I cleared all data and cache from Google Play, even uninstalled the updates but there 's simply no way to get rid of it. I 'm not sure if this is the reason why the backup fails, but I CAN copy the folder and even rename it.
Pff looks like I 'm going to have to do a clean install after all .
Hello, I too have this problem and unfortunately TWRP is not available for my phone.
I used to be able to do CWM backups fine on my old phone, and they work great on my tablet. But they consistently fail at "/data" on my Galaxy Ace II x. Might it be because I'm using Link2SD? I don't see why that would cause a problem, but maybe it's having trouble with the symlinks?
Hmm. Seems the issue was that, despite having only 1.28 GB total available storage space on stock, the backups wanted more than 4 GB. Cleared some room on my microSD card and suddenly backups worked fine! Of course, shortly after I installed CyanogenMod, which has much smaller backups...
Sent from my GT-S7560M using Tapatalk 4
I forgot to report back here but the only way I found to fix the problem was by doing a clean install. After that, I was able to backup my data partition again. I then restored my apps ' data with TB and was unable to backup the data partition again. I 'm guessing one of my apps had corrupt data, but never got to find out which one it was.
maybe your partition not match with recovery, like something wrong vold.fstab
Just in case anyone still wants to know how to fix this, I managed to solve it by running these commands:
1. run adb shell in recovery.
2. unmount data partition (umount /dev/block/mmcblk0p26). -> this one failed so I skipped it
3. run e2fsck /dev/block/mmcblk0p26
See http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=48659092&postcount=868 for original post.
I got a few HTREE errors and a bunch of duplicate names which I renamed when prompted. Booted the phone and rebooted into TWRP and now I am able to backup my data partition again. :good:
EDIT: Problem reappeared so I tried the above commands again but it said that the filesystem was clean. Ran 'e2fsck -f /dev/block/mmcblk0p26' instead and had to fix a bunch of HTREE errors from Facebook again and duplicate names from Xprivacy but now I 'm able to backup my data partition again.
Dude just selest the backup format as both zip and tar filea

Phone is bootlooping after attempted ROM update

I was running AOKP 4.3 and downloaded the latest 10/30 update. I flashed in CWM recovery and everything took as normal. I wiped cache and dalvik and then rebooted. Apps updated as normal and lockscreen presented. I unlocked and immediately received two force closes (timely & swype) if I click them or not, if I unlock or not, the phone will crash and reboot every 6 or so seconds. Luckily, if I'm quick, I can reboot into recovery. I am in CWM but my external SD card won't mount so I can't load anything onto it and attempt a new flash and the only rom file on my internal SD is the one that got me in trouble here. I've gone back into recovery and attempted to wipe data/factory reset/etc. and nothing changes. Internal storage won't mount when I'm connected to my computer with a cable.
I don't mind losing everything and starting from scratch. I've tried to seek out my own info but there is SOO many threads and videos and I don't know where to start. Can someone please tell me the most efficient way to get back to a clean start? I was on JellyBeans from 1-22 and looking back that was probably more my speed. I shouldn't have tried to switch to 4.3 at all. I was able to run AOKP for about two months without issue but I seem to be out of my element here.
Can anyone smarter than me please take pity on me here? Sorry to waste your time as well.
Try just wiping the system, reflash rom and gapps. I think this keeps your apps in tact, if just not just use tb and restore. Otherwise full wipe sounds necessary, but not horrible. Just restore everything with tb

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