In preperation for next update... - Vibrant Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

Assuming we will get 2.2 eventually. I have a question. Im currently running the bionix 1.9.1 with the jacs uv/uc. I made a nandroid before I flashed it. When froyo rolls out do I need to revert back to my backup so I can get it? I know it wil be awhile but im just trying to get a game plan going. I dont want to wait to the last minute and be clueless. Thanks in advance.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I plan to flash back to stock with Odin. Clear it all out.

When you odin back to stock, it unroots correct?

Correct. I did this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=803492
To my wife's phone when the OTA bricked it. Compared to other phones Ive read about - the Vibrant to way to easy to root. (or reroot)

When froyo begins rolling out there will be fully functional and complete 2.2 roms available for you to flash before you even get the update notification.

Related

Frustrated w/clockwork and recovery

This is my second time trying to restore a backup using clockwork and it just hangs on the vibrant screen. The first time I forgot to disable voodoo so that was the problem then, but this time I was on obsidian froyo rom and had issues where I was not able to get any data reception (3g/edge) so I figured to try and got back to stock to see if that solved the issue but no I'm stuck on vibrant screen. It went through the process of restoring then rebooting but it got suck. I am very frustrated because I can't never get it to work so what is the point of backing up stuff. I will be using odin again to restore and not use backups anymore. Just wanted to vent as I am very frustrated about this. If there is some out there that could shed some light as to why I keep getting stuck on the vibrant screen I would appreciate it.
Will be getting a replacement phone from my date issue, and yes my voice still works just not data part.
Sent from my T-Mobile G1 using XDA App
Froyo has a differnt kernel than eclair. You were trying to restore an eclair build, but you did not flash the stock eclair kernel first.
s15274n said:
Froyo has a differnt kernel than eclair. You were trying to restore an eclair build, but you did not flash the stock eclair kernel first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what eclair kernel can i use for the future???
i odin back to JFD and my 3g/edge is working again i wonder why i lost it?
Probably the easiest thing to do would have been to flash a new custom rom with the kernel included, like Fusion/Bionix.
You could have flashed the stock kernel and then restored a JI6 nandroid too though I imagine. I've not tried yet. The stock kernel can be found in my signature or in the development section. I have a copy on my internal memory just in case.

Back to Stock??

Ok so im currently running EB01 with SC 2.9.2 with Nitro Honeycomb theme but since most of us here already know verizons OTA 2.2 is going to be released tomorrow so what i want to do is go back to stock so that the update will go through successfully (i know i could stay where im at but i want to see if theres anything special in there since it took so long to get the update!!)
what i want to know is what is the easiest way to go back to stock (no root, no CWM) but not do a data clear as i would like to not have to redownload all my apps.
anyone got any tips? i have the DL01 odin package if worse comes to worse ill just do that and suck it up and redownload everything.
Thanks!
It was said million times: get Titanium Backup, backup your apps/data and odin DI01.

Passion 10.6 to Bionix Nextgen2

Hello,
I'm new to rooting hence I'm asking this question just to be safe.
I had Installed passion 10.6 through this route. Stock-2.1>CM7 Gingerbread>10.6. Every time I just wiped cached and installed the ROM form the zip.
What I want to know is if I changed my kernel?
I was reading on the instructions to install bionix and it was mentioned that one would have to disable the lag fix etc or disable vodoo. Do I need to worry about this or should I just flash bionix rom using the zip?
I'm not even sure my question makes sense. Thanks.
If you're thinking of going from passion to bionix then you should odin back to stock just be safe. If you odin back to stock you shouldn't have worry about the lagfix.
You can check what kernel you have by going to settings->About phone->Kernel Version. (i.e. mine is 3.0.1.5-ICUP ICS-Streamline #1). But if you odin to stock, this won't make a difference as flashing bionix will also flash the new kernel they have with the ROM.
Hope I helped a little.
You have to odin to jfd with re partion checked coming from ics, miui, or cm7. The partions are different on non touch whiz roms
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Thanks so much. Learning something new everyday.
Can't help but wonder, why are you flashing back to 2.2?
I so wish I did not have to. My battery wouldn't last on passion 10.6 and GPS wouldn't work. So for the time being I'm trying something else. Will try passion again next week(now that I'm hooked ) but I need a working phone in the next week

Can't update stock rom, "Communication Failed" from Software Update

I'm not sure if I'm the only one who is having this problem but I've searched around and can't fix the issue. I recently had CM9 but went back to complete stock, on 2.3.4 (which isn't up to date). When I go to update from the settings menu, I get a communication failed text box, which then in turn makes me wait 24 hours before checking again.
I've done multiple battery pulls and stopped the running process for the software update to no avail. Can anyone help me with this?
Remember, I'm on the stock AT&T rom.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA
myownwitness said:
I'm not sure if I'm the only one who is having this problem but I've searched around and can't fix the issue. I recently had CM9 but went back to complete stock, on 2.3.4 (which isn't up to date). When I go to update from the settings menu, I get a communication failed text box, which then in turn makes me wait 24 hours before checking again.
I've done multiple battery pulls and stopped the running process for the software update to no avail. Can anyone help me with this?
Remember, I'm on the stock AT&T rom.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you rooted? And why update to 2.3.6 uckk6? Its got a few really bad bugs.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using XDA App
Not rooted. I just want to get my phone up to date so when the ICS update rolls out I'll be able to get it.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA
myownwitness said:
Not rooted. I just want to get my phone up to date so when the ICS update rolls out I'll be able to get it.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If*
Sent from my SGH-I777 using XDA App
Thank you for your helpful information.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA
I think others were having trouble updating as well... I'd suggest flashing a custom rom, or if you want to stay with stock, using Entropy's Back to Stock packages (I'm not going to link that for you cause I'm too lazy and you should be able to find it.)
jcracken said:
I think others were having trouble updating as well... I'd suggest flashing a custom rom, or if you want to stay with stock, using Entropy's Back to Stock packages (I'm not going to link that for you cause I'm too lazy and you should be able to find it.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Might give it a try. Trouble is, not having a rooted phone and going back to stock means I lose all applications and data with them. Eh. Thanks
Download stock rom (if u can get a tar file it most likely has everything u need, do some Googling just make sure its for the i777). Get mobile odin pro. Use mobile odin pro to flash the .tar and it gives u the option to root right there within the app before u flash. Profit. Just giving my two cents and what worked for me . If u do this though and don't remove any system apps it should allow u to ota upgrade. Haven't tried myself but that sounds like it'd work fine.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Phalanx7621 said:
Download stock rom (if u can get a tar file it most likely has everything u need, do some Googling just make sure its for the i777). Get mobile odin pro. Use mobile odin pro to flash the .tar and it gives u the option to root right there within the app before u flash. Profit. Just giving my two cents and what worked for me . If u do this though and don't remove any system apps it should allow u to ota upgrade. Haven't tried myself but that sounds like it'd work fine.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already did this except for rooting about 3 weeks ago. From what you're saying, if I root my phone from its current state I should be able to receive OTA updates? I'm willing to root just to see but I don't see how that would fix the "communication failed" errors for updates.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA
FYI I have a rooted stock ROM, and I'm having difficulty doing an OTA update also. Different error (mine is "interrupted" after reboot). I posted it here because it seemed more related to that thread and I had other Q's about the process.
You guys are in panic mode, wait till we actually get an ANNOUNCEMENT for ICS from AT&T, then try to go back to stock using the methods we have.
No reason to do so right now, since AT&T will probably take a long time before pushing it.
We have a possible sources dropping on March 15th from i9100 but you will be required to be rooted to flash the possible ICS Roms that will be available after that date.
LiLChris06 said:
You guys are in panic mode, wait till we actually get an ANNOUNCEMENT for ICS from AT&T, then try to go back to stock using the methods we have.
No reason to do so right now, since AT&T will probably take a long time before pushing it.
We have a possible sources dropping on March 15th from i9100 but you will be required to be rooted to flash the possible ICS Roms that will be available after that date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you understand. First of all, in no way am I in panic mode. Secondly, my phone is a few updates behind since I just recently brought it back to stock from CM7. All I am trying to do is bring it up to date.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA
ota issue
You might want to check the (Guide)How to flash custom binaries.....on this forum. Creepycrawly has posted a reply towards the end of the thread that might be helpful. Believe its on one of the last two pages.
As has been said many times in other threads, even on a stock ROM if you have rooted and removed even one item of bloatware or made any other mods you will not be able to download an OTA update.
I have not rooted my phone. And as I said earlier, I restored my phone to complete stock meaning no bloatware has been removed. I'm still at a loss for what to do
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA
You were on CM9 (in a later post you say CM7), but you went back to stock UCKH7. Now you are unable to update over the air to UCKK6. You are mainly interested in having the phone ready to receive the update over the air to ICS, whenever that occurs. You have not rooted the phone since you returned to stock but you are willing to try root if it will help the update happen. You were also concerned about loosing apps and their data since you are not rooted. I recapped all this because on stock you should be able to run the update. To help you solve the problem, need to know all the facts.
I've done the following, although it has been several months ago, about a week or two after UCKK6 first released. From running a custom rom, I did a wipe data/factory reset, flashed stock UCKH7 plus root, and ran the over the air update to UCKK6 successfully, retaining root on UCKK6. I just did this to test it out, so after completing the test, I used my nandroid backup to return to the custom rom I was on.
I would assume that you did a wipe data/factory reset either before or after you flashed back to stock? If not, there could be traces left over that could interfere with the update process. I'm not sure if there could be traces left even after a wipe data/factory reset, but the Cyanogen Mod file structure is so very different than stock that it wouldn't be inconceivable.
Next, I would wonder how soon after flashing back to stock you tried to run the update, and if not immediately, what action could have possibly placed or removed files that would intefere with the process.
I'm pretty certain that if you were to wipe data/factory reset with a format and then flash stock again, and then try to run the update immediately, it would succeed. So there has to be something in the file system preventing it. You may not find it easy to correct that something manually. You may just have to do a wipe data/factory reset, and maybe a format, and then start all over with a fresh install.
Of course, that is the reason for rooting first. Root, then back up everything with titanium backup, SMS backup, export contacts, etc. and save all that to your computer. Then you can restore stuff after.
Thanks creepy,
I'm in the process of doing what you said. I rooted my phone, backed up everything I thought needs to be backed up and flashed the stock rom (2.3.4 kernel version 2.6.35.7 baseband version I777UCKH7). I still need to do a factory format in order to see if that will fix the update problem.
Question. Is the firmware version(s) above the latest AT&T software? According to Kies, it is. But I am reading other places that the latest software is android 2.3.6.
Did exactly as creepy stated. Brought the phone back to stock software and did a factory reset. Without ANY customization and as soon as the phone booted up, I did the software update and had the same thing, "Communication failed" (says there is an update available but servers are busy).
I give up.
Well, I don't have any new ideas. Maybe if I get some time in the next few days I'll try it on my phone to see what happens. It has been a while since I tried it. Maybe the server behaves differently now?
creepyncrawly said:
Well, I don't have any new ideas. Maybe if I get some time in the next few days I'll try it on my phone to see what happens. It has been a while since I tried it. Maybe the server behaves differently now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I've been reading on AT&T forums (http://forums.att.com/t5/Samsung/Sa...2-3-6-OTA-update-now-live/td-p/2996495/page/3) I don't think so. I've been trying every combination I can think of to make this thing work but I honestly have no idea. I was extremely surprised when I brought the phone back to complete stock and no root and still couldn't get the update.
If ICS ever comes to AT&T GS2, I'll wait a month or so to keep trying then I might resort to going to an AT&T store to get a replacement. Who knows

[SOLVED]Cannot install ICS ROM--please HELP

hi,
I am sorry if this is a dumb question. But i have failed several attempts while shifting to ICS (RC 5 by team-nyx). Every time when i install ROM & kernel via CWM and boot the device (vibrant t959) it freezes on the screen with VIBRANT and SAMSUNG displaying WHITE on BLACK back ground.
i have gone back to JFD and tried several times BUT same result.
I was on froyo 2.2 (build UVKB5) updated via kies and did it but no luck. I followed wiki.cyanogenmod.com/wiki/Samsung_Vibrant:_Full_Update_Guide and did starting from No. 03 --
downloaded Cmenard's Kernel with the ClockworkMod Recovery 2.5
Heimdall Suite 1.3.2 for windows
AND upto No. 9 under Windows ONLY: section
the CWM installs as it says (A blue transfer bar will appear on the phone showing the kernel being transferred. The device will reboot automatically. )
after that i cleared factory, cache and dalvik cache.
then I select install Zip from SD card and chose the ROM (which is from team-nyx.com/index.php/releases).
after 3% it says rebooting and vibrant shuts down and reboots.. when after I clicked the combo (vol+vol-power) to enter the CWM its not there.. so I reinstall using [heimdall flash --kernel zImage] command in PC's cmd. then after i redid the same to select from SD and then ROM installed ok.
then I selected the kerenel which was taken by same source and installation went normal..
after I select reboot from CWM it reboots and hangs on vibrant screen.
I cannot figure OUT WHAT IM doing WRONG..
Please HELP ME..!!!
thank you for your time
I am moving to 2.2 via kies after going back to stock JFD. then i will root my vibrant. after that i will install ROM manager from market. THEN i will try to FLASH to ICS RC 5 + kernel from nyx TEAM.
I dont know what is wrong.. please HELP
From what you told us it sounds right. Have you tried a different ICS rom? Give ICS slim a try. When you Odin back did you checked re-partition?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk 2
You should try flashing the Gingerbread bootloaders using Odin after you flash back to stock. Those bootloaders can run a Froyo ROM as well as ICS so it wouldn't hurt to do either way. After you flash the bootloader then try flashing the ROM.
And try a different ROM like iwillkillyou suggested. Slim is good, but ICZen is very solid if you're tipping your toes into ICS.
iwillkillyou said:
From what you told us it sounds right. Have you tried a different ICS rom? Give ICS slim a try. When you Odin back did you checked re-partition?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi,
thank you for the reply. No i havent tried a different ROM. yes I checked repartiton when ODin Y this is happening.. I have Flashed this ROM once.. but then when someone calls me they cudnt hear me clearly.. when i initiate the call its ok.. so I moved back to JFD..:/
kaiser_bun said:
You should try flashing the Gingerbread bootloaders using Odin after you flash back to stock. Those bootloaders can run a Froyo ROM as well as ICS so it wouldn't hurt to do either way. After you flash the bootloader then try flashing the ROM.
And try a different ROM like iwillkillyou suggested. Slim is good, but ICZen is very solid if you're tipping your toes into ICS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you for the reply.. I jz finished Updating to 2.2 via kies..ok I will flash Gingerbread bootloaders using Odin. I will try I think it wont be necessary to ROOT the vibrant..to Flash Bootloaders.. I am going to Flash the ICS ROM via ROM manager (after rooting via SuperOneclick root2.3.3)..
haarsh said:
thank you for the reply.. I jz finished Updating to 2.2 via kies..ok I will flash Gingerbread bootloaders using Odin. I will try I think it wont be necessary to ROOT the vibrant..to Flash Bootloaders.. I am going to Flash the ICS ROM via ROM manager (after rooting via SuperOneclick root2.3.3)..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just so that you know, everytime you are using Kies, you are running the risk of hardbricking your device. It is notorius for that and in fact someone last week got HBricked with it.
I don't use ROM Manager and probably won't as long as I have a Vibrant. All you need to do is go back to JFD and pull the CWR from my signature and put it on your internal_sd and label it as Update.zip. Then boot into recovery and hit Reinstall PAckages (might have to do this twice) and your stock recovery (blue) will go to CWR (green) and you can flash away.
Also for more detailed instructions, se my ICS install giude also in my signature.
Woodrube said:
Just so that you know, everytime you are using Kies, you are running the risk of hardbricking your device. It is notorius for that and in fact someone last week got HBricked with it.
I don't use ROM Manager and probably won't as long as I have a Vibrant. All you need to do is go back to JFD and pull the CWR from my signature and put it on your internal_sd and label it as Update.zip. Then boot into recovery and hit Reinstall PAckages (might have to do this twice) and your stock recovery (blue) will go to CWR (green) and you can flash away.
Also for more detailed instructions, se my ICS install giude also in my signature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the links.. I downloaded and place CWR inside SD. Without kies can we install official releases via Odin.. is there any way.. im sorry if that is a stupid question
No stupid questions. That is why we are here. I am pretty sure there is a flashable 2.2 stock floating aroung here. I personally don't have it though. Custom 2.2's are at this point tweaked so completely out, that they will blow the doors off any 2.2 stock ROM out there. I usggest Moped_Ryder's ROMs and Fishman's Bionix-redux ROMs. Quality, fast and stable. Not ICS, but everything works and no fear of the dreaded Encryption Bug.
PM incoming btw.
Woodrube said:
No stupid questions. That is why we are here. I am pretty sure there is a flashable 2.2 stock floating aroung here. I personally don't have it though. Custom 2.2's are at this point tweaked so completely out, that they will blow the doors off any 2.2 stock ROM out there. I usggest Moped_Ryder's ROMs and Fishman's Bionix-redux ROMs. Quality, fast and stable. Not ICS, but everything works and no fear of the dreaded Encryption Bug.
PM incoming btw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you. btw can we Flash to 2.2 via CWM .. directly selecting the ROM from SD .. without Odin
If you can find it, you should be able to. Just put on your card and flash away, taking care to wipe accordingly.
A note on flow though:
2.1, 2.2 -can go into and out of any 2.2 there is laterally.
2.3-4.0 -will need to Odin to stock before going back to a 2.2 ROM. Can move laterally from 4.0 to 4.0 though.
(i.e DO NOT try to restore a 2.2 nandroid or flash a 2.2 ROM when you are on an ICS variant. the /system is completely changed and reformatted. You need to Odin to get it back.)
Moped Ryder uploaded a semi tweaked version of the stock 2.2 build. It's a zip that you can just flash using CWR:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1674519
It comes rooted with busybox and some other goodies, but it's the stock kernel and whatnot. I'd highly recommend Fishman's Bionix-V Mod or Moped Ryder's Slim_Ryder ROMs if you're going to be on Froyo though. They're both great, but I went with Fishman's latest Bionix Mod since I couldn't get bluetooth to work on Moped Ryder's ROM. Which is really unfortunate because I loved Moped Ryder's otherwise.
And you don't have to Odin back to stock if you're just bouncing around Froyo or Eclair builds; only if you're coming from Gingerbread or ICS (2.3 or 4.0).
Keep us updated. I'm curious to see what worked. It's probably the gingerbread loaders. But, who knows.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk 2
Is your Samsung Vibrant (T959) Rooted.?
iwillkillyou said:
Keep us updated. I'm curious to see what worked. It's probably the gingerbread loaders. But, who knows.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi.. I tried again with flashing semaphore kernel through Odin installed CWM version higher than 2.5 to install ICS RC5 by nyx --sorry i need that soo badly so didnt checked anything else ..
@that time I was on vibrant 2.2 UVKB5 (stock)
NOT rooted
I didnt had so called
bootloaders
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(i dunno what it means though--have to search )
BUT it didnt worked for me instead freezes at Vibrant start-up screen. So i Couldnt switch back to CWM. I Odin back to JFD with repartition clicked and my vibrant was locked (network lock). Finally, I got it cleared by application named Galaxy_S Unlock by Helroz from the market.
Now I am at the very beginning again. I am now on 2.1 JFD. I dont know WHY this happening to me .. :crying:
gonna try again with GB bootloaders.. BUT Im sick of failing and going back to 2.1 (my friends who are having captivate had no problem)
Speedy5150 said:
Is your Samsung Vibrant (T959) Rooted.?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the time i was trying it was NOT rooted.. But now i have it rooted because i needed to unlock the network . which happened me for the very first time after flashing back to JFD using Odin..
Thank you guys for the links and thoughts on 2.2 ROMs.. I am not that expert . Thats why i was updating to 2.2 via KIES -- which is not a good idea as it seems with the ability 2 brick the device. I am going to get Bionix-V FishmanMod V4 FULL and install as http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1441976 says..
It says Boot into clockwork recovery and i think i found something to do that in this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=734164
I have to get ROM manager from market and go through it..
BUT Im damn upset with the RC5 ICS update by nyx being unable to installed into my device.. I will try with GB bootloaders flashed ..
If you are going to go with Fish's ROM, then all you need to do is Odin back to JFD and pull the CWR from my signature and put it on your internal_sd and label it as Update.zip. Then boot into recovery and hit Reinstall Packages (might have to do this twice) and your stock recovery (blue) will go to CWR (green) and you can flash away.
Fish also has a Odin package that you can flash his ROM through Odin and not have to deal with CWR.
ROM Manager is no longer supporting 2.1, so if you do go back to JFD, then it will be hard to get RM. It is out there somewhere but really all you need is the Update.zip from above to do it. I suggest that you stay on Fish's ROM for awhile and read about ICS installs and all the little things that are involved. If you do flash Fish's ROM, you don't need to mess with the bootloaders.
Btw, aside from Kies, messing with Bootloaders is one of the sure fire ways to hardbrick your device. It only takes seconds to flash them, but do it wrong and, well you know.
Good luck and ask if you have any.
Woodrube said:
If you are going to go with Fish's ROM, then all you need to do is Odin back to JFD and pull the CWR from my signature and put it on your internal_sd and label it as Update.zip. Then boot into recovery and hit Reinstall Packages (might have to do this twice) and your stock recovery (blue) will go to CWR (green) and you can flash away.
Fish also has a Odin package that you can flash his ROM through Odin and not have to deal with CWR.
ROM Manager is no longer supporting 2.1, so if you do go back to JFD, then it will be hard to get RM. It is out there somewhere but really all you need is the Update.zip from above to do it. I suggest that you stay on Fish's ROM for awhile and read about ICS installs and all the little things that are involved. If you do flash Fish's ROM, you don't need to mess with the bootloaders.
Btw, aside from Kies, messing with Bootloaders is one of the sure fire ways to hardbrick your device. It only takes seconds to flash them, but do it wrong and, well you know.
Good luck and ask if you have any.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks alot for the info brother.. some guys told me STUPID.. but YOU guys are awesome.. I am a newbie to this flashing and stuff.. but learned a lot from XDA . Thanks again for the reply. now I have stock 2.1 with ROOT . (rooted cuz i had to unlock the vibrant). I will flash to Fish's 2.2 ROM soon. BTW may i ask you after moving to Fish's ROM and later if i need to move to ICS still can I do it without messing with Bootloaders..
Thank you
That is what we are here for in the Q&A/General sections.
Regaring your question about Gingerbread bootloaders being needed:::Yes and No.
Gingerbread bootloaders were required in the infancy of ICS ROMs bc they prevented what is called "Rainbows" in your clockwork where you couldn't see anything. The options were there but you just couldn't see them. Then as ICS evolved, the need for GB bl's lessened and now you don't need them at all.
But...There's always a but...Gingerbread bl's are recommended by most of the devs for ICS builds because they seem to work better with the custom recoveries that come with some of the kernels. There is more to it but in short, GB bl's are not required but recommended.
If you go to my ICS install guide, in the middle pages and more again at the end, Yosup (highly respected user) and I have a detailed conversation about bootloaders and their installation. Once he got over the fear and did it, he was hooked and flashing ICS ROMs weekly if not more. It is a very informative section of that thread.

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