Hello there.
I'm a new Archos 101 16GB User having a mixed experience.
I feel that what I've got has huge potential, but just isn't being fulfilled - don't know if anyone else feels that.
I've come straight to tablets from netbooks and an iPhone, and have tried not to have any preconceived notions about how iPad sets the bar for these devices, although it does seem to be the case.
I'm finding, knowing very little about Android, that manufacturers have apparently rushed to force-fit a phone OS in a bigger package, which in respect of certain features makes the A101 seem like a giant (largeprint) smartphone. An example of this is the way in which the small, dainty iPhone-worthy icons for Apps can only be laid out on the 'desktop' panes with massive margins of space between them because the Android system seems to rigidly adhere to strict grid patterns for layout when really what users in this day and age want is user-definable pixel-perfect precise placement of elements. Of course, even iPhone is lacking this configurability.
Anyway, I'm currently trying to overcome my disappointment with the UI and the usability and consistency of desktops across horizontal and vertical orientations (Beautiful Widgets look 'OK' in portrait layout, and fugly in horizontal orientation), indeed the feeling that while what I wanted was the unified visual goodness of a WindowsMobile 7 type platform (or indeed the style brought by both HTC and third party developers (SPB?) to WinMo6, or indeed the carefully tuned visual loveliness of some of the HTC Android skins (Sense?) what I've actually got is a pretty clunky and grumpy Linux build that doesn't play well with its own software applications.
This is only a seventy two hour evaluation so far.
I've been looking at benchmarking, and have been led to Quadrant.
So I've got a batch of results, and I'm wondering if anyone cares to compare results and then compare notes.
I've already wiped and reinstalled the fresh FroYo firmware on the device, and am using gApps4 from these forums. I've populated with some apps and such, and had very unsatisfying attempts to switch from the stock Launcher (LauncherPro and ADW) as well as attempting to find usability in QuickDeskPro, mostly to no avail.
So in this 'stock' but loaded with apps state, Quadrant gives me a result of 780.
Then I've rooted with z4root and run SetCPU to give me 1000mhz on demand, and Quadrant gives me a result of 933.
Since then I've used SetCPU to give me 1000mhz on the 'performance' (non-scaled) setting and I get a result of 974.
With people in various forums talking about Archos Internet Tablet devices running Froyo giving them up to 1200 under Quadrant, I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong or lacking?
The 1200 scores you are talking about came from beta software and not the release software. Something was changed in the release version that brought Quadrant scores back down to those of 2.1. Don't read to much in to Quadrant scores though as they don't really affect real world use.
As for apps, the main issue is screen size and resolution. Many apps were not written with a resolution of 1024X600 in mind. So they don't scale very well. Beautiful Widgets is one of those. Once more developers become tablet aware and as Google increases compatibility with tablets this issue will go away.
The Android home screen is what you make it. There are other launcher, as you mentioned, that can be more customized however, there is no real theming that can be done on the 101 until it is rooted. This is the same for all Android devices unless of course you get a phone from HTC or one of the other OEMs that add their own theme to Android.
I think your main issue is that you know very little about Android and you are expecting it to be as evolved as iOS is even though it hasn't been around as long. New version of Android are coming that will be prettier and more tablet friendly but it will take a little time for it to be perfected.
with another beta beta firmware
the score is 1313
cajl said:
with another beta beta firmware
the score is 1313
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Click to collapse
any rumors regarding the release date?
About the same scores here. Topping out around 1000 in quadrant and a bit over 13 in Linpack.
Not sure about your problems installing launcherpro and adw, but I would try one or both again. The stock browser is horrendous in comparison (laggy, takes much longer swipes to see action, etc).
czesiu said:
any rumors regarding the release date?
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With the A5A last year they gave us one on 14 Dec and another on 24 Dec.
Allen
AllenPapapetrou said:
and another on 24 Dec.
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Click to collapse
crazy Archos devs
no firmware the friday
cajl said:
no firmware the friday
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Click to collapse
?
________________
I get 820 on a temp-rooted archos 101 8GB with 1GHz set by set cpu.
Appearently the H264-coding takes much too long... my htc desire takes a fraction of a second to pass this test while the archos takes several seconds (20+). I read in another thread that the hardware isn't supported yet by Android-API on the Archos, which will be changed in the future, i presume.
Another glitch: The second 3D-test is much slower than on the Desire (7fps compared to 25), with some errors on the moon (black triangles). Perhaps the OpenGLS-driver is faulty in some way. The first 3D-test, however, shows 3-5 frames more per second than the Desire (clocked at 1152 MHz).
Thanks for the input, guys. I'm sure you all know how comforting, and useful it is to be able to geek out on a forum, compare stories and get tips.
BlazingWolf, I'm certain that you're right. Android is entirely new to me other than a quick fiddle (ooh-err) with a Sammy GTab in a branch of PCWorld with a snotty little elf breathing down my neck to see if he could play games on it.
My big mistake in starting to experiment with this device was that I came at it from an iPhone background, expecting to just load up a device with apps from an app store and watch as it sings, dances and performs tricks for me.
I'm back down to earth with a bump (and not in a bad way) because of the greater openness, some would say 'fragmentation' of the Android platform which creates a scenario similar to that in the PC world where we can have any one of a number of preconfigured devices using specific but sometimes unique chipset combinations, with an array of OS's and software that can be installed on them.
I'm sure one day Android will mature to the place where we begin to see such harmony on the software front end in such a way as the hardware backend becomes irrelevant.
My first 72 hours with the device were bitty. I was expecting these instant results and instant satisfaction, and progress didn't really start to be achieved until I'd wiped the A101 and reinstalled 2.2 from scratch. That's a daunting task, especially to a casual user who might buy this off the shelf. Of course, I'm sure Archos are already looking at that and working to fix it so that the product is good to go from the off.
I'm warming very quickly to the A101. I want to like it. I still have an A504wifi which has only ever been used as a much-loved, if clunky looking and with a sucky interface, portable video player, which has had a great deal of use. So I've been excited about the A101 for a while.
And as a device it is an odd one to classify. The inevitable comparison with the iPad is not necessarily as clear cut as it seems. We have to be utilitarian, sometimes, in looking at these things. The iPad fulfils a multiple of tasks, like the Archos, and it does it within a tightly regulated and strictly defined 'controlled' environment which pushes constantly at 'parity' across all contemporary devices (the OS version for example). This gives us an elegant, reliable but inflexible interface, the trade-off for which is the relative safety of the apps in the app store. The Archos, on the other hand, has a less than elegant interface, is suffering from the issues of platform fragmentation and the remote relationship between the OS developer and the hardware manufacturer, has an App Store full of garbage that doesn't work properly but might get fixed one day, and takes a lot of 'taming' as an all-round package in order to get consistent and satisfying results. That said, the nature of the more open platform affords more opportunities, akind to jailbreaking the iDevices, in successfully customising the device to complete satisfaction, and as already said assuming the OS platform is sufficiently developed to catch up with these new 'tablet' formats, especially the larger screen varieties, we could see something really special and really refined happening.
Where the Archos succeeds, however, is that it is clearly a better platform for at least two of the intended functions of the iPad. We've got a better movie player, capable of working with more formats, with instant HDMI output, and with a proper widescreen display instead of the iPad's nearly 4:3 widescreen letterbox squinty vision. We've also got a better e-reader than the Apple ArmBreaker. OK, the bezel on the iPad is easier to grip single-handed than the Archos's much thinner, but much more elegant design, but this is a device I can sit in an armchair with and actually fall asleep while still holding the thing (I know... it happened). With an iPad, I have to keep shuffling position because the thing is so dang heavy.
The Archos seems to be only a few shades shy of perfect, as far as a hardware platform goes.
Granted, Tegra2 might be fun. And definately the low amount of RAM is an inexplicable and bizarre mistake. Plus we could have done with a 32Gb storage option. Oh, and a more easily viewable screen would be nice.
But as I tweek the thing, and accept the failings of OS and softwares, while anticipating future fixes, I'm really getting to like the little fella. I just need a really nice case to cart it around in, and a decent size memory card so I can store more, and I suspect that if someone can make a permanent root happen, that will pave the way to things like 'Startup Managers' so I can stop some of these apps auto loading when I don't need them to.
A question, though... is there any reason why the MicroSD capacity is listed as being limited to 32GB? Is that an actual capacity ceiling, or is it just the number that was most commonly available or tested at the time? Is the hardware limited to 32Gig or is it Android which is limited? Can the Archos 101 'scale' as MicroSD capacities get larger, or are we literally stuck with 32GB?
I've had no issues with build quality, possibly because I don't expect it to be as solid as an iPad, being a cheaper price and different materials. I've never really had much history of busting my devices with rough treatment or accidents, and even my 'expensive' iPhone 3GS has experienced the not-uncommon 'natural' phenomena of cracks appearing in the back casing around the dock port.
One thing I did notice is that when the A101 first arrived fresh from FedEx the box was freezing cold and so was the device, and when I unpackaged it, the top edge of the device (top of the screen when held in landscape) appeared to be quite significantly convex in shape, arced, not separated from the glass in any way, but definitely bulging. I did a lot of pressing back down on the bulge and letting the device get to room temperature before this 'bulge' became minimal. It is there ever so slightly even now, but doesn't appear to be putting any pressure or distortion on the screen.
Oh, and I think it is just the viewing angle issue, but when I hold the device in portrait to browse long pages or long lists, it almost appears as if the screen itself is convex, and I tend to tilt it back and forth to change the viewing angle on each section of the screen. The screen could definately have been executed better, and I don't think it would have raised the price too significantly.
Any other tips for an A101 n00b would be greatly welcomed.
32GB is atm the maximum you can build a sd to.
The std doesn't give more.
There is a new spec by sony that has more, but it seems not compatible.
I'm not sure if you're interested, but my Samsung Galaxy S used to only do about 900 on the Quadrant benchmark with Android 2.1, it was laggy and slow and really seemed a bit disappointing! Then came Froyo! My oh my, what a difference, unbelievable! It's snappy, touch, and it's there, spin, and it spins, breath, and it feels you! And, it also performs excellently in a Quandrant test now, usually in excess of 1700, even out performs most Nexus One phones I think.
It's absolutely blown me away that a simple software upgrade could entirely change a user experience so much! Battery life has also improved dramatically, at times giving me upto 12 hours or more with general use (regular texting plus photos etc). Which is really great for a 1500mAh battery.
So, I wouldn't give up. Froyo is a really smooth incarnation of Android, and future releases will no doubt get even better. It's exciting seeing what having a company as powerful as Google, backing an opensource project like Android can achieve.
While Microsoft and other companies are focusing purely on developing products from a financial profitability standpoint, Google seems to be able to focus more on simply developing a really excellent product.
I think the biggest 'downside' to Android is that numerous companies overload it with bloatware and don't optomise it enough for their hard ware. There is maybe just a general lack of understanding on the importance of making Android work WITH not against the hardware it's on.
Keep the faith though, have a play around with it and I'm sure eventually things will improve for you, otherwise, if you're really disappointed just go and buy a Samsung Galaxy tab or something similar! Samsung does a really good job, even though they take a looooooong time for updates!
Just ran quadrant, score was 1380. Gapps5 launcher pro plus non root.
2500 with urukdroid build
Related
I can't decide which device.... I like Archos(have a few of their products now) but the G Tab seems more capable of running newer versions of Android. Do you all see the G Tablet becoming the tablet to beat when updated with an official release? I like all the mod/hacking I have seen on the forum, I just think I may be better suited for a device with better "official' support from the manufacturer. Talk me out of Archos... I WANT to love the G tablet...
WAD.
If you're already on this forum, i suggest you get the g tablet. Since when does support from manufacturers did any good?
Archos is notorious for getting product to market quick and dumping support for product real quick
/end decision
I can only go on my own subjective opinion. Back in October, I was on the Archos 101 pre-order list - feels like it was a year ago, now. I only tried the GTab because I was sick of the 101's delays.
But now, if I was given the choice between the two, I would choose the GTab without hesitation. It has a chipset which is vastly superior, an open firmware and a great community. The Archos does have some pluses, or course - better HDMI port and an excellent media player come to mind. But the hardware it's on is already out-of-date. Even the Galaxy Tab 2 is going to have a Tegra 2 in it.
Read up on forum.archosfans.com, too -- a lot of grumbling on the Froyo update. and you can't even back out.
Alpha06 said:
Archos is notorious for getting product to market quick and dumping support for product real quick
/end decision
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heh, i was notified this morn that the archos 70 is back in stock and had it in my cart before i remembered how archos has issed me off before.
plus, the gtab has better hardware for a bit more money. i'm getting another gtab after the holidays, when the staples/sears stuff is figured out. hopefully get a good deal.
WantADroid said:
I can't decide which device.... I like Archos(have a few of their products now) but the G Tab seems more capable of running newer versions of Android. Do you all see the G Tablet becoming the tablet to beat when updated with an official release? I like all the mod/hacking I have seen on the forum, I just think I may be better suited for a device with better "official' support from the manufacturer. Talk me out of Archos... I WANT to love the G tablet...
WAD.
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From what I gather based on posts by other people who have owned both, the Archos is MUCH better at media playback, while it's 256MB leads to problems... oh, and the Archos has a bit better screen, although I've not been bothered by the viewing angle except when specifically checking it as when in use I'm always looking directly at the gTab... gTab also has better overall performance. Archos is lighter than gTab.
My own personal drawback is the 10" size and weight... so I'm mulling a Nook Color ATM or maybe elocity a7 or wait and see what the next few months bring in the way of 7" tablets. NC seems best immediate option as B&N will probably support it for a year or so I'd imagine...
With the new Gtablet update, even non-modded, the Gtablet seems a better buy now (if you side-load Flash, of course).
1. Archos 101 = capped at 800mhz (that is crazy- not even smaller form factor phones do this). Out of box and after update, the 101 can not even bust 1,000 with Quadrant and rooting to remove the cpu cap result in 1,200.
2. Despite fanboy spin, the 256mb ram is a problem for Flash and general operation with 2.2. Not so bad with 2.1, but app managment is more dynamic with 2.2 and more apps tend to float in memory, rather than sit in a wait-state using a register stack.
3. The wifi signal is weaker on the 101
4. No adhoc connections and wifi tether other than hotspots does not work
5. Only 300mb of app space (over six times less than the G)
6. Sound quality of the 3630 is weak due to low volume and even worse, poor gain management (Archos adheres to the Euro sound cap law). Still, the speaker output is louder than the Gtablet- ironic.
7. If you like games like the Quake series, PSX or other more demanding apps, the 101 is a lot slower and not smooth like the Gtablet.
8. Larger CBR and PDF files that play super smooth and lag free on the G, either do not work or are laggy messes on the 101.
9. As mentioned above, Flash is problematic on the 101, due to the 256mb ram. Try more demanding sites like Dailymotion and the higher res Flash content. Smooth on the G and not on the 101.
10. To get decenty performance, you need to root the device and mod. Why even bother with the 101 then? Europe has the Advent Vega, Asia has the zPad and NA has the Gtablet. ALL better options, IMO and now the Elocity 7 is out and kicks the snot out of the Archos 70.
Seems the 101 was outdated upon release and to add salt to the wound, they capped the cpu that was already designed to be dynamic and clock to usage- wild.
BTW, I do not agree that video is MUCH better, but is better, none the less. The 101 handles higher def video better, due to more mature support for the 3630, but 1080p does not work well on the 3630 either. Hidef seems pointless anyway on a portable device, due to space and battery drain. Not to mention the display is not 1080p. I think people latching on to the video mantra of the 101 are putting far too much stock in the actual difference it makes.
All of my vids play fine on the Gtablet, but I do not care for 1080p and 720p MP4 tends to be space and battery drainers too. Still wish those would work on the Gtablet.
I own neither right now but am sort of in the same boat as the poster.
Here's what sort of changed my mind...
I purchased and received my Archos 101 and it was dead on arrival brand new from Amazon. I know crap happens but it really got to me since I'd felt like a kid on Christmas day when it came. Imagine getting something you're EAGER for an anticipating and then not having it work? We can't really blame Archos for this entirely though since it happens with every product.
Anyway, what actually got to me was calling Archos....the CS guy wasn't much help and tried to convince me to send it in for repair vs. Amazon return. But who wants to send in their brand new device with the possibility of getting back someone else's used device? Right? He couldn't guarantee that I'd get back my brand new and repaired unit plus I had to pay shipping. In essence, my price for the 101 would have been almost 370 in the end, so I just told him no thanks and sent it back to Amazon.
I ordered the Archos in the first place because while I can see myself rooting and modding, to me it's an unnecessary hassle vs. just getting something that's supposed to work. In other words, I had your outlook. Excited about the modding potential, but better suited to official support, so really I just prefer getting the updates in OTAs than rooting and modding.
The Archos 101/70 seem to 'just work'. And I'd been planning on slapping the official/unofficial? Google Market on there for good measure so I was prepared to get my hands dirty somehow anyway as I wasn't sure if this meant I needed to root or not. Archos has also, recently seemed to show that they're at least trying to get updates out the door while Viewsonic's site didn't at the time have any updates posted for the G tablet and it seemed like it was just some hardware put out and then forgotten.
However, when I was 'forced' to check out the G tablet more thoroughly it would seem it's not 1/2 as bad as I'd seen or read about (youtube, blogs, etc.) where users called TnT horrible and writers referred to it as garbage and unusable etc. I say 'forced' because I couldn't RMA the 101 for exchange as Amazon was out of stock, I had to RMA for refund. Then on impulse, I decided to get the G Tablet...because I'm plain through with waiting.
I'd known it had more raw power than the 101 but upon further reading here on xda and watching newer youtube videos it seems TnT isn't that bad if you factory reset first and start 'fresh'. Not to mention the fact that the mod community has embraced the G tablet as something 'good'. Viewsonic is also pretty 'vocal' for the most part on Twitter, and that has to count for something in terms of getting our voices heard by the company. Archos is there too but their posts are mostly about where to buy the tablet or that they're available at so and so.
My point being, I don't think it would hurt to at least try the G Tab first. Had I known then what I know now (and I should have, as I am somewhat of a tech head) I would have just gone with the G Tab and in some ways, I'm happy the 101 came DoA or maybe I'd have happily settled for a single core, 720p playing Android tablet vs. something with more power and thus potential...a dual core with 1080p playing capability and the ability to do everything faster.
Also, modding isn't horrible. It's a scary thing to think you have to do something that may brick your device to get it to an even workable state...but this isn't the case.
Even if you've never done it before once you're thorough and read/understand/execute in detail, you'll never brick. Most experienced modders can root and slap a new ROM on their devices in 20m or less (depending on the ROM size, etc) but don't watch that....if it takes you even an hour, as long as you do it right the first time (in terms of getting a recovery mod in there), you're going to be fine from then on. You'll have the added bonus of messing around with a variation of ROMs and may realize something's there that you like even more than the stock. You also have the backing of XDA devs which is a great, great thing.
My 2c.
I currently own both the GTab (running TnTLite 2.3) and an Archos 101 (finally) with the latest firmware update. Both have their good and bad sides and if you've been hanging around here, you should have a pretty good idea of what those are.
The GTab:
Pros: Fast processor, easy to hack, not easy to brick, good XDA support
Cons: Not great viewing angle, questionable (stock) UI, questionable support (from ViewSonic)
The Archos 101:
Pros: Better viewing angle, decent support (from my experience, so far,) very good multimedia support and streaming, much lighter than the GTab, built-in kickstand, HDMI out
Cons: Very locked down (but can still sideload,) slower CPU (even at 1Gz,) HDMI not reliable (at least for me)
I like them both, for different uses. I like to hack around and get to know the OS and the GTab (and my DROID) are great for that. For daily use, I use the 101 since it is lighter to carry around and has the built-in kickstand.
my $.02
I have to agree with most. I also had interest in the archos but was part of the waiting game and the misleading info from the company itself.
My draw to the archos was it being a lightweight device. HDMI ready to use and the media player that seems to be the attractive feature in comparison.
But I must say being part of this site gave me insight and "again" bumped into the gtab. At first glance the device SW is horrid to say the least. Why would they butcher it, is beyond my reasoning (perhaps a sweet deal played out w/tapntap) and the #1 problem for users trying it out of box as is. They should seriously post in the box or pamphlet to register at xda. lol.
Once you fiddle with the device(using a custom build like TnTlite/VEGAn you wont regard making your decison. Archos is limited as meantion herein and your halt for the possiblities that lay ahead.
So Yes you can say the archos is lighter, has the hdmi port... a kickstand.
I agree the Gtab is heavier in comparison, and for some the viewing angles are bad, but in the end, The Gtab is here now with an awesome HW and will be here tomorrow.
Thanks!!
Wow, thanks to all who have responded.... I am leaning heavily towards the G Tab, sounds like it would be a fun device to mod. I want a good media player in my device, that is the biggest reason I am considering Archos. I own an old 504 80gb and I have used it almost everyday. I want to take the next step up to touch screen and Android, but I want the device to have some what of a future. Seems to me Archos puts devices out that are already one generation old when they hit the market. Must be their business model to buy new every 1-2 years. I would like to have my device for minimum of 2-3 years before I upgrade.
Thanks
My brief thoughts on the matter, as posted on Archos fans forum.
"I have a GTab as well as a 101. And there is NO comparison: My GTab blows the 101 away on speed, responsiveness, and smoothness. Its just uglier & heavier! Lol! My 11 year old daughter has lay claim on my GTab. She's lucky I love her (and am afraid of my wife)! Lol! . . . Admittedly, a lot of tweaks have gone into the device as it clearly was bad straight out of the box. All I know is with a custom ROM, mine flies."
http://forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=43968
Just got a G-tab from local Sears last night.
Took me couple of hours to get it going with the latest TNT Lite and market fix. (still new to all of this.)
First I wanted to get 101, but it was sold out everywhere.
G-Tab was horrible with stock UI. After loading TNT, it is much better, but it has ways to go. I like the responsiveness. Still have to get used to the interface. And run some video tests. (I would like to use it in the car as an entertainment system for my kids.) HDMI via dock may be a deal killer to me.
I don't like the screen and ergonomics of the device. I will probably play around with a device, for a couple of weeks and then return it to Sears. Still want to see what will happen at CES. Perhaps Adam, will fit me better.
I first buy the archos 101 for my birthday on november and its not so good. Example no custom roms, speed capped at 800mhz, one of the speakers stop working ,its feel very plastic cheap! I just returned to amazon and get the g-tablet its a diferent kind of animal! Tegra 2, 512mb ram, lots of custom roms.
Its your choice! But im super happy with g-tablet never looked back since i buyit!
Neoprimal;99 [QUOTE said:
Also, modding isn't horrible. It's a scary thing to think you have to do something that may brick your device to get it to an even workable state...but this isn't the case.
Even if you've never done it before once you're thorough and read/understand/execute in detail, you'll never brick. Most experienced modders can root and slap a new ROM on their devices in 20m or less (depending on the ROM size, etc) but don't watch that....if it takes you even an hour, as long as you do it right the first time (in terms of getting a recovery mod in there), you're going to be fine from then on. You'll have the added bonus of messing around with a variation of ROMs and may realize something's there that you like even more than the stock. You also have the backing of XDA devs which is a great, great thing.
My 2c.
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Click to collapse
I THINK its even more brick proof than people realize. I took mine from an infinite boot loop state with a partitioned (completely deleted) sd card and no back ups all the way back to stock in about five minutes (clockworkmod was the ONLY thing working) after spending about 25 minutes reading about NVFLASH and finding the correct usb to gtab driver for my pc operating system (mine was winxp pro but there was support for vista, win 7 64 and linux).
Thanks again Roebeet for pointing me in the right direction.
Pretty muck "brick proof-tacular" if you are willing to ask for help/read through threads/research.
I am fortunate enough to have both devices and did a comprehensive review with video for anyone who is still interested: http://www.blendblog.net/Default.aspx?tabid=36&EntryID=64.
They both have strengths and weaknesses as I point out in my review.
Sean
Allenfx said:
I THINK its even more brick proof than people realize. I took mine from an infinite boot loop state with a partitioned (completely deleted) sd card and no back ups all the way back to stock in about five minutes (clockworkmod was the ONLY thing working) after spending about 25 minutes reading about NVFLASH and finding the correct usb to gtab driver for my pc operating system (mine was winxp pro but there was support for vista, win 7 64 and linux).
Thanks again Roebeet for pointing me in the right direction.
Pretty muck "brick proof-tacular" if you are willing to ask for help/read through threads/research.
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Click to collapse
This has been my experience too... bought my G-Tab (after spending hours pouring over reviews etc.) fiddled around with ROM's, managed to get it stuck in an infinite boot loop (Clockwork does NOT like NVflash!) Took about a hour reading up on NVFlash (THANKS Roebeet!!!) and got it back running again. Then did it again several more times, just to be sure. So that's cool and all..
One problem tho'... the screen.
I've seen lot's of talk about how great/awful the viewing angles are for the G-Tab. With mine, when looked at perpendicular/directly on, it looks great! But tilt is just a bit away from you (as if to place it on a table) and it gets immediately blurry and weird-looking colors (like a cheap LCD laptop screen)
HOWEVER, turn it over (so's the dock port is on the top) and do the same tilt and it looks normal (a bit washed out, but normal color and no LCD blur) all the way flat on the table... IS THE SCREEN INSTALLED UPSIDE DOWN??? Could this be why some people have such opposite experiences? I looked on YouTube at some viewing angle reviews and their G-Tabs looked like mine does when it's upside-down!? I took it back to Sears and got another one, took it home and same thing! So I took it back, too and got money back and am now trying to figure out weather or not to try the Archos... still hooked on the G-Tab though, it was so nice, except for having to keep it pointed exactly at 90-degree viewing angle. Any thoughts? And another big Thanks to Roebeet, just loved TNTlite!
mattrahman said:
This has been my experience too... bought my G-Tab (after spending hours pouring over reviews etc.) fiddled around with ROM's, managed to get it stuck in an infinite boot loop (Clockwork does NOT like NVflash!) Took about a hour reading up on NVFlash (THANKS Roebeet!!!) and got it back running again. Then did it again several more times, just to be sure. So that's cool and all..
One problem tho'... the screen.
I've seen lot's of talk about how great/awful the viewing angles are for the G-Tab. With mine, when looked at perpendicular/directly on, it looks great! But tilt is just a bit away from you (as if to place it on a table) and it gets immediately blurry and weird-looking colors (like a cheap LCD laptop screen)
HOWEVER, turn it over (so's the dock port is on the top) and do the same tilt and it looks normal (a bit washed out, but normal color and no LCD blur) all the way flat on the table... IS THE SCREEN INSTALLED UPSIDE DOWN??? Could this be why some people have such opposite experiences? I looked on YouTube at some viewing angle reviews and their G-Tabs looked like mine does when it's upside-down!? I took it back to Sears and got another one, took it home and same thing! So I took it back, too and got money back and am now trying to figure out weather or not to try the Archos... still hooked on the G-Tab though, it was so nice, except for having to keep it pointed exactly at 90-degree viewing angle. Any thoughts? And another big Thanks to Roebeet, just loved TNTlite!
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Click to collapse
Ummmm.... this is not meant to be rude at all but I have to speak my mind.
For 300 bucks you need to get over it and enjoy the awesomeness you get out of ten inches that I paid to get 4 inches from my GSM (fml)
The Screen is a 300$ screen... be happy you got one before it sold out.
Not rude at all... in fact I had the same thought process... HOWEVER it was $400 ($369 listed on line, but $399 in the store, $440 with taxes [they said I'd have to return the one I bought in the store, order another online and pick it up at the merch. pick-up to get the online price] ) so it was a bit more than $300.If it were, I'd be much more inclined to just suck it up and enjoy the zippy-fast and get a stand that would hold it at the right angle... I'm looking at a "lightly used" one online that comes with a stand and chip for under $400 that I may get. I've even considered a ~$200 Chinese knock-off with a resistive screen, but I think I'd hate it, no Multi-Touch, slow response, etc. I guess it's just a balance of how much $$ with what features.
Originally, I ordered a Xoom from Verizon, but $800 plus $20/month seemed too too much! So I cancelled the order - for $35 "restocking fee" ugh, I hate phone companies - I still want a Xoom tho'.
I'm just wondering if anybody else has notice the "upside-down screen" thing, or am I nuts?
Update: Just found G-Tab for $299 on eBay/Tigerdirect with free shipping, 10 left...
gtab viewing angles
Yeah, On gtab noticed the screen has better viewing angles from top and left side than bottom and right. I dont know if that means they are building it installed upside down but they should move the factory to the southern hemisphere if they are ;-) or something.
Lousy viewing in the sun, regardless of angle.
Also wish the return key wasn't so badly placed, hold it in the right hand only and bound to hit the return key...
Hey all - I am VERY loath to ask any of these questions, as I pride myself on doing research and figuring things out for myself, but I've come to the point where I just need to ask this community. I purchased the Gtab as part of the Woot fiasco, and immediately replaced stock firmware with Vegantab. From a general perspective, it works fine, with all the know quirks. However, this is my first Android device. I've been modifying windows phones and working with jailbroken iphones and other fiddly things with computers for a long time, so I'm not faint-hearted at tweaking. Anyway, my questions are these:
Given the hardware this thing sports, the performance ROTS. Is it because the OS is just not polished? It's slow to shift from screen to screen. It often delays in recognizing my touch when trying to scroll icons that it thinks I actually am trying t launch an app. In general, it just feels inferior in speed and snappiness of, for instance, iOS (I understand it is much easier to have a single platform to put an OS on and optimize it). I get the program not responding screen, wait or close way too frequently for my tastes.
Then there's the fact that every app installed seems to want to run itself in the background at all times. I'm constantly using the task manager to kill everything, which frees up a ton of RAM and then the tab runs better for a little while. I can't seem to find a way to prevent these apps from doing this. There is probably something very obvious that I am missing, but Facebook should not just decide on its own to run in the background when I haven't launched it.
Any thoughts on any of these things, or can someone point me to an obvious FAQ that I'm missing that answers all my questions?
In theory Android OS should free up RAM as you need it. Google will swear up and down that task killers are unnecessary, and the user doesn't need to manage background processes. That said, I have advanced task killer widget on my home screen and use it whenever things get a little sluggish. I don't use the Facebook app, but most apps have the option in the in-app settings to disable background updates. There are task manager apps that claim to prevent other apps from launching at start up, or kill them automatically, but these will usually end up eating more resources than they save.
As far as home screen switching, I'm not a fan of the stock froyo launcher on a tablet this size. It always seems that the device is expecting a much larger swipe that should be necessary to switch home screens. I use Launcher Pro and it feels faster and more responsive than the iPad 2 for going between home screens.
The scrolling/ inadvertent selecting issue I can relate to. If your coming from iOS, there is this an expectation that the device will always tell the difference between a scroll and a tap. That expectation isn't unreasonable, because Apple is stellar at making scrolling interfaces feel perfect. They have whole sessions at WWDC about implementing scrolling lists into apps. Android on the other hand requires a more deliberate scrolling. Android has gotten a lot better over time, but it often requires a much more deliberate scrolling action by the user. "Flicking" like on the iPad usually doesn't register perfectly for me.
One thing you may notice on the G Tables is that pinch and zoom is wildly unreliable when pinching on the same x or y axis. I'm pretty sure this is a universal issue with the screen. It has trouble recognizing multitouch input when the points of contact are on the same axis. Pinching at an angle is the only way I can zoom reliably.
brettdwagner said:
In theory Android OS should free up RAM as you need it. Google will swear up and down that task killers are unnecessary, and the user doesn't need to manage background processes.
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It's like automatic garbage collection, isn't it? Really useful, but sometimes you want to explicitly free things.
There is a way to kill foreground apps on Android. Settings > Applications > Development > Stop app via long-press, will kill the foreground app if you "long-press" the Android back key. Background apps you can either kill using task-managers or not start at all using tools like Autorun Manager from Market.
One thing you may notice on the G Tables is that pinch and zoom is wildly unreliable when pinching on the same x or y axis. I'm pretty sure this is a universal issue with the screen. It has trouble recognizing multitouch input when the points of contact are on the same axis. Pinching at an angle is the only way I can zoom reliably.
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Yeah, I've noticed this too. Pinch-to-zoom at the same y-axis is hopeless. Same x-axis works okay, but, at an angle works best.
I actually appreciated your post. You knew the limitations of hte device before buying it...you didn't comment on the atrocious screen (and accepted what was to be)
The biggest downfall with the G-Tablet itself was it's software. You admitted that you immediately flashed VeganTab. When I bought mine, it came with TNT Lite, to which I then immediately also flashed to Vegan 5.1.1. I never experienced the stock rom, and actually considered myself lucky, due to the reviews I've read.
I think that some of our issues may actually be due to the fact that we're using software that wasn't specifically designed for OUR devices. Yes, they are all android, yes, they should all work fine, and do, at times, but if using a froyo or gingerbread rom, we're using software designed for phones. I haven't tried the Alpha version of HC (BOS) yet, but even in Alpha stages, people are raving about it, even with it's limitations.
I just recently started using Brilliant Corners. In the flash process, I had to have Stock 4349 (1.2 stock firmware) on the system. I can honestly say that it really wasn't that bad. The response seemed a tad better, I never got the "Forceclose : Wait" option when a process was "thinking." things would just pop up. I can only think that as bad as it is, it manages itself better than some of the ports and mod's we are using, simply becuase they were MADE for the G-Tablet. Yeah, it's ugly, and you can do half of what I can do on BC.
What I find intolerable at times is that Angry Birds: Seasons (only that one, no others) will have really choppy graphics. I haven't found a way to fix it, I've overclocked, though I didn't think that would help, I've uninstalled, and installed, I've recovered backups, etc...alas, rebooting will fix it...it's weird. Not one other game will do that, except for AB:S.
What I find intolerable at times is that Angry Birds: Seasons (only that one, no others) will have really choppy graphics. I haven't found a way to fix it, I've overclocked, though I didn't think that would help, I've uninstalled, and installed, I've recovered backups, etc...alas, rebooting will fix it...it's weird. Not one other game will do that, except for AB:S.
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It works for me, although the birds do take off on their own from time to time. Have you tried downloading from a different source? I pulled my angry birds from Amazon. I'm running Vegan-Tabs 7.0.0
Please don't be offended, as I do believe your question is being asked in good faith. However, I have to admit that I haven't experienced any of the problems you're describing. I've had an iPod Touch since gen 1, and I haven't noticed any difference in the responsiveness. My g Tablet responds the same to flicks as it does to slower swipes, without interpretting them as taps.
I also haven't experienced the slow downs you're referring to when running multiple background apps, though that may have to do with the particular apps you have.
I have not had an issue with zooming in and out by pinching along either the x- or y-axis
Finally, I at least don't feel like the swipe to change screens is excesssive, but then again that could be personal taste or because I'm using a Gingerbread-based ROM.
The one issue I do have is with the on-screen touch keyboard. I feel sometimes that it fails to register letters if I type too fast; I haven't had this issue with iOS, but at least I think I can get used to it, and for serious typing I'll probably use a physical keyboard.
Incidently, I'm using Cyanogenmod 7, which seems to be the "pet ROM" of these forums, for better (it's a solid ROM with a large developer community) or worse (it's not nearly as innovative as mods being developed by some "other users" *ahem*roebeet*cough). I'm not saying this is the reason why I have not experienced these issues; maybe they aren't so striking to me or maybe I've been lucky?
EDITTED: Most typos are due to annoyances with using an on-screen keyboard with the g Tab.
Tablet has been fine to me. Screen responsiveness is on par with iphone/ipad/my htc evo screen.
Vegan tab rom is fresh...all .my functions work sure my wifi drops out after sleeping for a while (yes changed sleep settings) but hey I spent 250 not 500 and I have flash sd and usb....all of which I use everyday.
Thanks for all the responses. I rather expected to get somewhat of a range of replies from "I agree with you" to "you're crazy, mine is fine". To be very clear, I'm not trying to rip on the device at all. I knew I was rolling the dice a little and I know that Android really hasn't matured for a Tablet just yet (in my eyes).
I guess I've sort of had my questions answered to some degree.
scyld - I'm not offended in the least. I have an iphone 4 and many of my coworkers use iPads every day. They are definitely more responsive (to me). However, the stock iOS wasn't on my iPhone. Now that I have it jailbroken and can control which apps suck up memory, it behaves flawlessly. What I believe to be the scrolling/flicking issue is actually that the OS interprets spaces IN BETWEEN icons to be part of those icons, where Apple's OS does not. If I tap between icons on the Gtab, it will launch the one closest to my finger. iOS will not do this. That alone may be why the scrolling seems to be more accurate. I may well try Cyanogen. I mostly don't care about bells and whistles - just responsiveness and usability.
I wasn't aware that Google used the same line about memory usage that Apple swears - in fact, my friend and I stopped in the Apple store because she was having a problem with docking her iphone in her car... The tech ran a scan and told her incidentally that she was out of app memory and told her how to 'kill those pesky tasks' by tapping the little red minuses on all the apps in the app dock. I couldn't stop laughing.
I guess what we're dealing with is the result of an open source open hardware landscape. By having such a fractured base of developers, manufacturers, varying hardware specs, etc, it is much harder to optimize any particular build for any particular device. I did use the stock firmware for a few days and simply found it too limiting. Not to mention the lack of a market, etc. Apple's success is in large part due to the way it's app store works. Every device has it. The app warns you what it will work on and what it will not. Application updates tell you what the update fixes or adds (which Market does only very rarely). I appreciate that there are multiple markets for Android, but they should stick to some established rules for the information given.
I'm writing a novel - sorry - All this being said, I love the idea of Android (and hate iTunes with a passion) and I'm looking forward to a generation or two down the road of the tablet ROMs. I'll give the other ROMs a shot and see if there is improvement. I really appreciate the developers work on the platform thus far. I'll keep reading and messing with settings, tips, tricks to improve what I can.
Hi all,
I know the G tab has been out since late last year...
And I know that after I root and rom it, this thing will be amazing.
But am I too late for the party? Is it worth it to buy one now? Or should I just wait at this point to see if something better is coming out... I have not been researching tablets as much as phones lately.
oresteez said:
Hi all,
I know the G tab has been out since late last year...
And I know that after I root and rom it, this thing will be amazing.
But am I too late for the party? Is it worth it to buy one now? Or should I just wait at this point to see if something better is coming out... I have not been researching tablets as much as phones lately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a good question. The G-Tab is a sweet tablet for the price point, it will get its best shot at Honeycomb next week, when Notion Ink drops a first party release of Honeycomb for the Adam (which shares a lot of similar elements to our tablet).
That being said, everyone who currently owns a tablet (except for the Transformer and the NEW Galaxy Tab 10.1) is paying the early adopter price. Android isn't 100% there yet, but if you own an Android phone you know this. For me, I absolutely love Gingerbread (2.3.3) on my Droid X, and I loved 2.3.4 on my Droid 1; it's a complete enough OS for me now. Honeycomb 3.1 feels much better than 3.0 as well.
Tegra 3 (Kal-El) is right around the corner, and will probably come in at a $400.00 price point. Qualcomm is shooting for 4-core tablet processors by the end of the year (Q4). Also, we're expecting to see Ice Cream / Ice Cream Sandwich (next Android version, for both tablet and phone) in late Q3.
If you can wait, wait. if not, get a G-Tab. Something like a Xoom is not worth the premium over the G-Tab, even for a nicer screen.
It is an excellent question, but you really have to understand your own tech preferences to know for sure.
The GTAB's main cons right now are the screen angles (most likely unfixable) and the stock software. For the latter, there are many mods you can use, but if you are looking for a HC port it's not quite there yet - we're hoping that will change soon.
Its pros are price. For $125 less than a Transformer, you can get a device that's comparable in speed and might be comparable in software, in the near future. But you are in the hands of the modding community since the vendor seems to have abandoned the device.
There will always be the next best thing, around the corner. So it's a really a question of price and whether or not the device serves your purposes at that price.
I'm confident that this device is more than capable of doing what I want to do.
Mostly web browsing.
Some games.
Perhaps Facebook games.
youtube, flash, netflix if possible.
I'm not going to use it for work, and start editting documents, etc.
I'm going to check out one at Sears possibly today and see if the viewing angles are an issue.
I think the main reason I'm worried about something new coming out, is because of the chance the modding community might move on to the next device. haha
Also a valid point to consider. I can't speak for everyone here, but for myself I plan to pull back after this month. Not so much because the GTAB isn't a good device to mod anymore, but for personal reasons (taking a break from modding tablets, in general - will still have my GTAB but will be less focused on it, that's all).
There was a bit of a lull last month, but there's still activity right now in development as new devs have popped up as some of the older devs/modders have moved on it seems. So, it's hard to say what will happen in a few months, but right now there's still some activity. I think that will continue until the Notion Ink HC port shows up and it's ported over to the GTAB (we hope).
Great info in these posts as i'm in the same situation as the original poster. Currently an ipad user but would like to try an android tablet on the "cheap". Unfortunately, there isn't any retailer nearby carrying the tablet so i cant see how bad the viewing angles are first hand. Is the screen good straight on?
Elroyy said:
Great info in these posts as i'm in the same situation as the original poster. Currently an ipad user but would like to try an android tablet on the "cheap". Unfortunately, there isn't any retailer nearby carrying the tablet so i cant see how bad the viewing angles are first hand. Is the screen good straight on?
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Have you ever used a netbook before? The screen is a typical netbook screen. Straight on and 45 degrees each way looks fine. From up above viewing angle will go to almost 90 degrees without the loss of quality. From below anything beyond 45 degrees and you will lose the colors.
There are also some nice youtube video comparisons between the G-Tablet and iPad. One in particular shows the differences in the viewing angles. You'll know which one I'm talking about becuase the creator uses his daughter's iPad, with her "Hello Kitty" wallpaper on it...
(in my opinion though, how can you see the superiority of a screen that has Hello Kitty on it, lol)
The viewing angles are bad, but, I VERY rarely need to share the screen or find myself in a position where the screen is hard to see. sure, other devices have screens with better angles, but how often do you browse the web or watch a movie at an 80 degree angle from a personal device?
I love this tablet. I bought a leather case from electronic crap dot com and its like carrying around a journal. Easy to carry, I play games on it and I log into my computer at work from it all the time.
I agree, there always something better around the corner, but this tab has a great price point and there are lots of stable and highly usable roms.
Bottom line is you don't get this tablet because its the latest and greatest. You gt it because its way cheaper than other tabs with the same power.
Thanks everyone. I do have a netbook, never really had issues with the screen. I also saw that video with the hello kitty screen saver. Straight on, i'm guessing the screen is pretty decent.
You will be happier spending a bit more on the crop of Honeycomb tablets released this year. The first time you flip your gTab around to show someone something on the screen, only to see that person moving his or her head around with a look of stern concentration on their face, desperately trying to find the right angle to see what the hell you're trying to show them, you'll wish you had forked over their extra $100 or so for a better screen. You may think, "Oh I'll never do that, I'll always just be looking at it straight on with no deviation!" but you'll find out soon enough that's not the case.
That's just one example. There are other solitary situations where the screen won't be at the sweet-spot angle -- for example, my Transformer is sitting on my desk here at work, propped up in its case, but it's behind me and to the right, and still looks great. I often reach back and press the power switch to get a quick look at my email or whatnot. The gTab would require me to move directly in front of it to get a good view.
gTab was a good starter tablet when the only other option was a $700 Xoom. With the cheaper tablets being released, its value has decreased greatly. But if you only have $275 or whatever to spend, and can't afford $125 more, then I guess it's your best option for a 10.1" Android tablet.
Hi my 2 cents...
Having used the G-tab for about 4+ months; my recommendation is to wait (if you can). My biggest gripe is the screen (both resolution and viewing angles).
I use it primarily as a media consumption device...watching videos, games, browsing and reading books (in that order)
videos - if I have an option (pc or tv near by) i chose them as the resolution on G-tab is not good. HD videos are choppy (I have tried a few mods but all more or less same)
Games - this is good no complaints
Browsing - this does not have 3g so without wifi its useless. I tether using my iphone, which is cumbersome but works
Reading books - good; but the screen is useless outside (unless its night or cloudy)
This is a great device to buy cheap and beat the crap out of it...(software wise). I also owned an ipad and adam and they also have their own problems.
My first Android tablet is Gtab because it is cheaper and has good performance compared to other 10" tablet in the market. For 10" size tablet, if you have up to $300 budget, Gtab was a good starter tablet (with Xda support). If you have up to $400 to spend, ASUS transformer is not bad. If you have more than $500, of course, you will have more choices. So it depend on your budget.
Thanks everyone for your replies. I think this would be a good, cheap way to get into Android tablets. I would still have my ipad as a backup.
asdf73 said:
videos - if I have an option (pc or tv near by) i chose them as the resolution on G-tab is not good. HD videos are choppy (I have tried a few mods but all more or less same)
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I'm willing to bet you only tried the ginger based ones. Those don't have hw acceleration, so HD vids are choppy. The froyo ones, especially the ones based off of TnT, are pretty smooth.
My recommendation to the OP is if you're going to get the gtab please please please go to my website and read it. And if you're going to compare it to the ipad, please stick with froyo. It is not the latest and greatest, but it certainly is stable and fast.
I was thinking about TF or GT10.1 but non of HC based tablets supports Netflix as for the moment... Well, paying $125 or more in case of GT10.1 for not been able to watch Netflix in my opinion is just wrong.
No doubt, IPS or better screen is a must for photo-frames.
All in all there are no perfect tablet as of now but hopefully we will get there...
I went to Office Depot today to see the screen.
I didn't think it was as bad as what everyone is saying.
Sure, its not as nice as an iPad screen...but its potentially almost half the price...
I don't mind that tradeoff... I'm looking at buying it used anyway. I figured that's the best way to break into the tablet realm and not have any regret about not waiting..
oresteez said:
I went to Office Depot today to see the screen.
I didn't think it was as bad as what everyone is saying.
Sure, its not as nice as an iPad screen...but its potentially almost half the price...
I don't mind that tradeoff... I'm looking at buying it used anyway. I figured that's the best way to break into the tablet realm and not have any regret about not waiting..
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Click to collapse
Hey, I sent you a private message. PEACE!!
I highly NOT recommend buying the G Tablet. It has nothing to do with the viewing angles.
The reasons why I would tell people to stay away from the tablet are the following:
1) Viewsonic released the damn thing and then basicaly orphaned it immediately. The result is a lack of software libraries needed for development, and the implications are inferior mods with more limited capabilities. As far as I'm aware, there are no Gingerbread roms that truly support HD or fully support graphics hardware acceleration. And getting Honeycomb on the damn thing has been a Promethian effort. All Honeycomb mods are in alpha, and there's hardly any guarantee that any will ever be fully functioning.
2) The bulky design is far from a joy to hold in your hands. It makes it unpleasant to use the touchscreen while holding it, making both gameplay and activities like typing more difficult.
3) Others may disagree with me, but software on the tablet has always acted jerky and has always been slow. It completely lacks the smoothness of other devices, and sometimes it's hard to believe that you're actually using a comparartively (for price vs. power) powerful piece of hardware with dual core processor and not something that feels like it barely has the computational power to run your web browser or word processor (however, it does handle graphics rendering as well as it should).
Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, but I cannot imagine an application for which the G Tablet could be at all recommended. I would highly advise looking elsewhere for an entry level Android device, or wait for the new batch of Honeycomb tablets which will roll into stores very soon.
Hi all,
I know that if someone want's the look and especially the super fast reaction speed of an Ipad, then one should buy an Ipad..
But I love my 10.1, and prefer android any day of the week..
My questions are:
Why is an Ipad so much faster at reacting to what you are making it do (virtually instant), than a Galaxy tab?
And, is there anything I can do to make it react at this super fast rate?
I have done the following to try achieve this:
Rooted it
Installed SetCPU to boost the idle speed a bit to 608Mhz
Installed ADW.
I am running a startup manager to limit the startup apps.
Short of installing a new ROM, and overclocking the daylights of it, is there anything that can be done?
Kind regards,
Trevor
trevormc said:
Hi all,
I know that if someone want's the look and especially the super fast reaction speed of an Ipad, then one should buy an Ipad..
But I love my 10.1, and prefer android any day of the week..
My questions are:
Why is an Ipad so much faster at reacting to what you are making it do (virtually instant), than a Galaxy tab?
And, is there anything I can do to make it react at this super fast rate?
I have done the following to try achieve this:
Rooted it
Installed SetCPU to boost the idle speed a bit to 608Mhz
Installed ADW.
I am running a startup manager to limit the startup apps.
Short of installing a new ROM, and overclocking the daylights of it, is there anything that can be done?
Kind regards,
Trevor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously there is some mistake here. The DEFAULT speed of the tab is 1000mhz. 608 is serious underclocking... Now if you overclock and install adw, there is not much else you can do. Try a different rom as well and wait for official ics as we all do...
Sent from my amazing 10.1 galaxy tab
Panos_dm said:
Obviously there is some mistake here. The DEFAULT speed of the tab is 1000mhz. 608 is serious underclocking...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I think he is talking about the idle clock freq and not the max clock. The idle clock for our tab is 200MHz I think, so our friend raised that to 608. Well, I don't think that will help to anything but draining your battery faster
On other hand I have the same question. My brother in law have an iPad 2 and the new iPad. I really hate that closed OS, but I must admit that the responsiveness of both iPads is far better than my loved 10.1, even after installing CM9. I suspect that there is something in the hardware that doesn't allow our tab to provide a quicker response.
patriciocs said:
Actually I think he is talking about the idle clock freq and not the max clock. The idle clock for our tab is 200MHz I think, so our friend raised that to 608. Well, I don't think that will help to anything but draining your battery faster
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually it helps responsiveness a lot. As the CPU ramps up from 216mhz at idle it seems to stumble. Agree though it's at the expense of battery life so gains are minimal once that's factored in.
Personally I run setcpu profiles and have mine setup such that at battery level higher than 75% I push up the idle clock speed a notch or two. Once below that threshold I drop it down to stock. When being charged I push idle speed to 608 like OP does and max CPU to 1400. Helps responsiveness noticably. At these settings though the tab's just trickle charging when in use so if set that way during charging and the battery is low don't expect it to charge much during use.
It's been asked and answered 1000 times, but... why not.
First: the ipad (and ipad 2) have lower resolution screens that display icons in a grid, and a clock. There's nothing more than that. All of it is cached for near-instant retrieval: The launcher interface is loaded at all times. Android tablets have a higher resolution screen (more pixels to account for) and the icons have a great deal of functionality, including widgets. These can be cached only to a certain degree, but if you want things to update, you need to keep them dynamic. So, there's reason #1 the ipad launcher is "faster." (The ipad 3 is the same; the newer hardware makes up for the higher resolution screen).
Second: The ipad is a tightly controlled (sandbox) system. That means that the system does not expect anything but specific gestures and touches; in fact it has no way (absent a jailbreak) to add new ways of interacting with the device. Android has a completely different framework that allows devs to come up with anything they want. It's like comparing a set of legos to a machine that one could use to build legos with. You sacrifice simplicity (and consequently speed) for the sake of comprehensive customizability.
Third: ipads are premium devices. They are expensive even though each model (of which there are only a few) is produced in much larger numbers than any individual android device. This is a pretty big deal, honestly: you only need one set of engineers, one set of programmers, and one set of administrators (even though you'll have multiple working groups of each) to create these devices. And apple employs lots. Compare that to android devices: sure, google has a lot of people working software, but once the product is finished, it's handed over to a completely different set of folks at the OEMs who "customize" (read: touchwiz-ify) it. Efficient? Not compared to the tight ship they have at Apple. But to get back to the original point: ipads are expensive even though Apple is (potentially) a much more efficient producer. They use top-quality components and have world-class engineers and software designers all working on one device. Compare that to what Samsung can do (and still turn a profit).
I'm not a fan of apple (I prefer customizability), but think this through and you'll understand why the "reaction speed" is better on an ipad.
One last thing: Ask yourself why you got a tablet. Did you get it for the launcher interface? And if you got an ipad, would the smooth user interface make your experience better, even at the cost of widgets? It's a trade-off.
Questions go in the Q&A section
Firstly, thank you to Step666 for moving my post to the correct section, I appreciate it.
Thank you slack04 for your detailed response. It has answered my question rather well..
However..
I would prefer it if you would refrain from the attitude about my "inane question". I did some fair searching on the subject, and found no suitable answer.
If one existed as you so subtly put "It's been asked and answered 1000 times, but... why not." then why did you simply not add a link to one of the "thousands" of suitable answers, and save yourself the trouble? But thank you none the less.
Muzzy 996, I agree, I have also found that the idle speed a 200Mhz is stumbly, and much prefer it's responsiveness at 608Mhz.
P.S. I do have ADW EX launcher.. And yes, it is very good and much better than the stock launcher.
I guess all that's left to do is install a custom ROM and overclock if I want more speed.
Regards
T
JB solves a large part of the problem, as it ramps the devices to max speed on touch.
Saw this thread randomly, but as I've been using an iPad and an android phone for the past couple years, here's my two cents.
Android is more suitable as a phone os, on the tablet side iPad is just better. Think of what you would use a tablet for. Mostly web surfing, maybe doing some word processing or file editing, watching pictures, reading documents and sometimes play a bit of games. Any of this is fully achievable on an iPad and it's not like it is less capable than any android tablet. Plus since it has less thing for u to play with, my experience is that you can focus on what you're doing instead of playing the device doing nothing productive (sorry if that's a bit blunt ).
Just my piece of advice, for phone, use android, for tablet, I would prefer an iPad.
Sent from my LT26i using xda app-developers app
Thanks slack04 for your answer, pretty detailed. I was not complaining about my tab responsiveness, I was just curious about the slower responsiveness compared with the iPad.
Well, I think you got the point in your post. I chose my GT over the iPad, even the 'new' iPad and after trying the iPad2, the new iPad and my tab. To me, feeling that I am free to do what ever I want with my device is invaluable.
trevormc said:
Firstly, thank you to Step666 for moving my post to the correct section, I appreciate it.
Thank you slack04 for your detailed response. It has answered my question rather well..
However..
I would prefer it if you would refrain from the attitude about my "inane question". I did some fair searching on the subject, and found no suitable answer.
If one existed as you so subtly put "It's been asked and answered 1000 times, but... why not." then why did you simply not add a link to one of the "thousands" of suitable answers, and save yourself the trouble? But thank you none the less.
Muzzy 996, I agree, I have also found that the idle speed a 200Mhz is stumbly, and much prefer it's responsiveness at 608Mhz.
P.S. I do have ADW EX launcher.. And yes, it is very good and much better than the stock launcher.
I guess all that's left to do is install a custom ROM and overclock if I want more speed.
Regards
T
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, I deleted my last paragraph. You're right, no need to be a **** about it. But the question has been asked and answered, and honestly, it doesn't take much to figure it out. I'm not a dev or anything remotely close. It also doesn't help that most of the time people "ask" about the differences it's usually just a cover for a troll or a whine. If your purpose was entirely academic, then I suppose your intentions were pure....
i use an iPhone 4 and galaxy 10.1
iOS just works, and doesn't need customizing (personal preference)
However. I use tab for movies and sstreaming TV episodes which the ipad doesn't do or does poorly
I've also been fustrated and annoyed at this issue ans looked into this reaction speed thing.and have just come to the conclusion that an IPAD would be so mmuch better if only I could ccopy movies over directly and streaming flash TV episodes
Its a shame. There is no perfect device
Both are great in different areas
With the move to HTML 5 streaming movies, and the poor support by Samsung etc to role out new versions of aandroid. I'm going for an ipad next .... never thought I'd be one of those types!
My advice,embrace it, it will never react as good as an ipad
They have a closed system to make it this good ....love and hate them for it!
actually bottom line is Apple programmed the UI to prioritize the scheduling of UI requests so when your finger touches that screen, it drops everything to service that finger. Not so with Android (4 and below) which only applies normal priority to the request - JB corrects this
so while there are a number of work arounds and hacks to improve it - it will never get to the state that IOS delivers - until JB
slack04 said:
It's been asked and answered 1000 times, but... why not.
First: the ipad (and ipad 2) have lower resolution screens that display icons in a grid, and a clock. There's nothing more than that. All of it is cached for near-instant retrieval: The launcher interface is loaded at all times. Android tablets have a higher resolution screen (more pixels to account for) and the icons have a great deal of functionality, including widgets. These can be cached only to a certain degree, but if you want things to update, you need to keep them dynamic. So, there's reason #1 the ipad launcher is "faster." (The ipad 3 is the same; the newer hardware makes up for the higher resolution screen).
Second: The ipad is a tightly controlled (sandbox) system. That means that the system does not expect anything but specific gestures and touches; in fact it has no way (absent a jailbreak) to add new ways of interacting with the device. Android has a completely different framework that allows devs to come up with anything they want. It's like comparing a set of legos to a machine that one could use to build legos with. You sacrifice simplicity (and consequently speed) for the sake of comprehensive customizability.
Third: ipads are premium devices. They are expensive even though each model (of which there are only a few) is produced in much larger numbers than any individual android device. This is a pretty big deal, honestly: you only need one set of engineers, one set of programmers, and one set of administrators (even though you'll have multiple working groups of each) to create these devices. And apple employs lots. Compare that to android devices: sure, google has a lot of people working software, but once the product is finished, it's handed over to a completely different set of folks at the OEMs who "customize" (read: touchwiz-ify) it. Efficient? Not compared to the tight ship they have at Apple. But to get back to the original point: ipads are expensive even though Apple is (potentially) a much more efficient producer. They use top-quality components and have world-class engineers and software designers all working on one device. Compare that to what Samsung can do (and still turn a profit).
I'm not a fan of apple (I prefer customizability), but think this through and you'll understand why the "reaction speed" is better on an ipad.
One last thing: Ask yourself why you got a tablet. Did you get it for the launcher interface? And if you got an ipad, would the smooth user interface make your experience better, even at the cost of widgets? It's a trade-off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
animatechnica said:
actually bottom line is Apple programmed the UI to prioritize the scheduling of UI requests so when your finger touches that screen, it drops everything to service that finger. Not so with Android (4 and below) which only applies normal priority to the request - JB corrects this
so while there are a number of work arounds and hacks to improve it - it will never get to the state that IOS delivers - until JB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried to dumb it down a bit and avoid the "so why don't the devs just add this to the ROM" question... But this is another good point and you wrote it much more clearly than I could...
Afternoon folks.
I'm currently on the fence with the N9, and I may have an opportunity to buy a brand new 16GB for only £130-ish.
However, even at that price I'm not willing to forgive the many sins I'm reading about on here, light bleed, getting extremely hot and not being able to have more than 1 Chrome tab open are deal breakers for me.
I know these problems exist but, to my surprise, this doesn't seem to be a very popular forum compared to the N7 (2013) which is my current tablet (was the N9 a bit of a flop or do people just not develop for it on here??) and I wanted to check if there have been any kind of hardware revisions or software improvements that have made the N9 a great device to use, as it should have been from day one.
So yea, even now a year later, are these problems I'm reading about on here widespread?? If not is there a light at the end of the tunnel or should I just avoid?
Thanks
djbenny1 said:
However, even at that price I'm not willing to forgive the many sins I'm reading about on here, light bleed, getting extremely hot and not being able to have more than 1 Chrome tab open are deal breakers for me.
I know these problems exist but, to my surprise, this doesn't seem to be a very popular forum compared to the N7 (2013) which is my current tablet (was the N9 a bit of a flop or do people just not develop for it on here??) and I wanted to check if there have been any kind of hardware revisions or software improvements that have made the N9 a great device to use, as it should have been from day one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't believe there have been any hardware improvements.
You might want to check this thread and this thread as well and read about various folks' experiences. You might also wait a few weeks and check back after Android 6 is rolled out (though I think the consensus among folks running the previews is that it is not much different).
I think the bottom line is that some people are very happy with the N9 and others are very unhappy with it. Some issues, the chrome tab one in particular, seem universal unless you modify your device. Others, like overheating and light bleed, appear to be either luck of the draw or situation-dependent. (I have had neither of those problems -- I had overheating due to a misbehaving app but the app was updated and I never had the issue again.)
djbenny1 said:
However, even at that price I'm not willing to forgive the many sins I'm reading about on here, light bleed, getting extremely hot and not being able to have more than 1 Chrome tab open are deal breakers for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously everyone has a different experience but I would just like to share that my N9 was perfectly fine. No light bleed issues, doesn't get extremely hot (although it does warm a little after heavy usage but I wouldn't call it "hot") and I frequently have multiple Chrome tabs open (in fact I haven't even heard of this issue until now). So I don't doubt some people are having these issues, but I don't think they are as common as you may think because people without problems generally don't say anything.
djbenny1 said:
I know these problems exist but, to my surprise, this doesn't seem to be a very popular forum compared to the N7 (2013) which is my current tablet (was the N9 a bit of a flop or do people just not develop for it on here??) and I wanted to check if there have been any kind of hardware revisions or software improvements that have made the N9 a great device to use, as it should have been from day one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't speak about the difference in popularity of the forums but rooting and flashing roms was fun when I got my first Android device but now I'm happy to have something that "just works" so I don't frequent the forums as much. I don't believe there has been any revisions that changed the hardware.
In the end, I like my N9 but it is obsolete now.
woshiweili said:
Obviously everyone has a different experience but I would just like to share that my N9 was perfectly fine. No light bleed issues, doesn't get extremely hot (although it does warm a little after heavy usage but I wouldn't call it "hot") and I frequently have multiple Chrome tabs open (in fact I haven't even heard of this issue until now). So I don't doubt some people are having these issues, but I don't think they are as common as you may think because people without problems generally don't say anything.
I can't speak about the difference in popularity of the forums but rooting and flashing roms was fun when I got my first Android device but now I'm happy to have something that "just works" so I don't frequent the forums as much. I don't believe there has been any revisions that changed the hardware.
In the end, I like my N9 but it is obsolete now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obsolete?
What would you say is better? When I checked the other day it was 4th in the list of highest benchmarking android devices.
If you can wait one or two more months, and the price of a new tablet is OK for you, then you might want to wait and see how the Pixel C is doing in the tests.
djbenny1 said:
Obsolete?
What would you say is better? When I checked the other day it was 4th in the list of highest benchmarking android devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google just announced Pixel C three days ago. While it may not be an obvious successor to Nexus 9 (perhaps the last Nexus tablet?), it is the most current tablet from Google. Nexus 9 has also been out for about a year, the same amount of time the two previous Nexus tablets were released before they were replaced.
djbenny1 said:
Afternoon folks.
I'm currently on the fence with the N9, and I may have an opportunity to buy a brand new 16GB for only £130-ish.
However, even at that price I'm not willing to forgive the many sins I'm reading about on here, light bleed, getting extremely hot and not being able to have more than 1 Chrome tab open are deal breakers for me.
I know these problems exist but, to my surprise, this doesn't seem to be a very popular forum compared to the N7 (2013) which is my current tablet (was the N9 a bit of a flop or do people just not develop for it on here??) and I wanted to check if there have been any kind of hardware revisions or software improvements that have made the N9 a great device to use, as it should have been from day one.
So yea, even now a year later, are these problems I'm reading about on here widespread?? If not is there a light at the end of the tunnel or should I just avoid?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, djbenny1...
I've generally avoided answering such questions in the past, partially because the answer is going to be hugely subjective, and partially because it also depends on what your expectations of the device are. If you plan on playing lots of graphic, GPU intensive, high octane video games on it, I would be inclined to look elsewhere for another device.
And it also depends on what you're prepared to pay for it...
At £130 this represents a significant reduction in price, from the original £319 (for the 16Gb model) and £399 (for the 32Gb model) price points, when the Nexus 9 was announced in the Autumn of last year (2014). A quick Google search reveals that the 16Gb model currently retails for around £250, give or take a few quid.
Leaving aside the dull, uninspiring appearance of the Nexus 9, and the reported hardware problems - the flexi-back, the lightbleed issues, (I never had those issues with my Nexus 9, and I've no idea if HTC made changes to the production process to remedy these problems.), but I would be surprised if they haven't, given how widespread those reports where.
...but leaving aside those issues, the problem with the Nexus 9, IMHO, is it tried to do too many things, too quickly...
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** Implement the new Android RunTime (ART), replacing the old Dalvik runtime, as part of Lollipop. (And compounded further by a memory leak in the initial release version of Lollipop).
** Along with the Nexus 6 smartphone, it was one of the first devices to run Android on a 64bit platform.
** Run Android encrypted (ie, the data partition) by default. Seamless, on-the-fly, encryption, surely has to have some resource penalty (CPU cycles, etc.), resulting in impaired performance - (See my comments later about encryption.)
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All of these elements introduce a multiplicity of 'difficult-to-quantify' variables, whose aggregated deficits cannot be easily foreseen. And introduced together, on one device, and at the same time, seems to me to have been not the best idea from Google. There's certainly no doubting Googles audacity with the Nexus 9, introducing these features, but they did too much, too quickly.
I don't pretend to be either a software or a hardware expert, but everything I know about designing new devices and developing software, suggests that a slower process of design, implementation, testing, and feedback is better in the long run. A slower process of iteration...
...rolling out a new feature on a new device - see how it works in the real world. And then later, add-in a second feature, and see how that works out. Maybe wait for the next device release, before adding in a third feature, and so on and so forth. To quote the old aphorism, "Rome wasn't built in a Day", so why did Google attempt to (metaphorically) do so with the Nexus 9 ??
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For my own part, I'm pretty happy with my Nexus 9 .
I'm currently running it with the 3rd Android M developer preview installed, it's rooted, and as a requirement of acquiring root, it's also unencrypted.
And running it without encryption, made a **BIG** difference to my Nexus 9. See my post here from June of this year, and the benchmark results I obtained with AnTuTu as a result of decrypting it.
With regard to the oft reported problem of Chrome reloading tabs... yes, it does do this, but I can't say this is a major problem for me.
I've spent the past few hours drafting and submitting posts on XDA, preparing and sending several emails via MailDroid, and all the while, frequently dipping in and out of Chrome to do some fact checking, and with something like around 20 tabs open. Yes, they do reload (but not every time), but it takes no more than a few seconds. Maybe again, this has something to do with my device not being encrypted. I should also add here, I tend to run Greenify rather aggressively (as I do on all my Android devices), hibernating all the apps I have installed that I can realistically get away with. Obviously I don't hibernate things like widgets, or apps which set alarms, or depend on push notifications... but this leaves more RAM for the 3 or 4 apps I do use on a frequent basis.
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So... My Nexus 9 does what I need it to do, which is primarily web browsing via Chrome, email via MailDroid, and posting here on XDA, via a combination of the XDA Premium 4 app and Chrome.
I'm not a big video game player, but I've been known to occasionally indulge in a game of chess, with Shredder Chess, or a game of Sudoku with Andoku 2. The most graphics intensive games I play on it are Temple Run: Oz and Subway Surfers. Both games run without problem. And I can't say my Nexus 9 gets particularly hot... A little warm, yes... but hot - no.
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So, should you buy one for £130...??
I would say, if you're prepared to tinker with it a little (Unlock the bootloader, flash ElementalX kernel for decryption purposes), then I think there are worse ways of spending £130.
Another way of looking at it is, what alternative devices are available for £130? What specifications do they have? RAM, CPU, version of Android? Likelihood of further updates to Android? If you want to tinker with it, how easy or difficult is to root or unlock the bootloader?
Would I buy one today for £130?
Yes, I would (if I didn't already have one).
The benefit of hindsight is a wonderful thing - a phrase often used with negative connotations, but I use it here positively. Knowing what I know about it now, and having had it for nearly a year, and how to get the best out of it, I would have no hesitation about buying one for that kind of money... .
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Right, I can't think of anything else to add. Which is probably a good thing... I've rambled on far too long as it is .
I don't know if I've clarified a few things for you or muddied the waters further. I hope it's the former .
Anyway, good luck, with whatever you decide.
Kind Rgrds,
Ged.
I was sitting on the fence on whether or not to get the N9 what tipped my hand into buying one was Argos dropping the price down to £179 and I'm very please with it so far. I've got slight screen bleed at the top but this is only noticeble on dark screens.
jonchill said:
I was sitting on the fence on whether or not to get the N9 what tipped my hand into buying one was Argos dropping the price down to £179 and I'm very please with it so far. I've got slight screen bleed at the top but this is only noticeble on dark screens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, the Argos price was too tempting for me also.
I also have a touch of lightbleed which I wouldn't put up with if I'd paid £300. Compared to the Nexus 7 (2013) I think the screen isn't quite as good. The black levels aren't as low but the screen can go a touch brighter.
When you get over the screen however, the speed and small things like always on google now, (even when the screen isn't,) make the tablet worth it.
At £179 I'm happy, at £300 I wouldn't be, at £130, I'd deffo take the chance.