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Just wanted to open up a thread here to see what we can do about battery calibration issues.
Not sure, but I read around that people are getting phone shut downs at the 10%-15% ranges.
When in actual fact it should be somewhere around the 1%-5% range?
Was wondering if there is some possibility in coding the phone to read the battery state better? Thus, eliminating the need for calibrating the battery through tradition means (ie: wiping, charging, etc)
Thoughts?
EDITS:
We've managed to figure out huge boundaries for the battery.
There are currently two ways to get your battery into "learn mode" - which will adjust the values of your battery to accurately reflect it's "age" and mAh tracking. This will lead to a fix for those of you who are currently facing issues with the battery shutting down anytime before the 1% mark.
1st fix:
1) Drain battery
2) Just as the battery hits "Shutting Down", plug in your charger
3) Let the phone power down
4) DO NOT TURN ON THE PHONE
5) Let it charge up overnight or something along the lines of 4-6 hours, which should ensure it will be fully charged
6) Power up, your phone should be calibrated and will now shut off at 1%
2nd fix:
Head over to the Battery Calibration Tool Thread which spawned off from the discussions here!
>> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=765609
For those who have been following the thread and wonder what your status_reg value mean theloginwithnoname has kindly provided us with some datasheets and translations, which you can get with the following links:
Binary Conversion: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=8013370&postcount=548
Then refer to Page 25 of the following datasheet: http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DS2784.pdf
OR you can try out mtw4991's method to get learn mode done with the battery app that's been created out of this brainstorm thread.
The link to his method is > http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9583271&postcount=340
I began this thread in other to simply find a fix for our current battery % meter. Basically, users (myself included) were having a problem with inaccurate battery % readings. Some N1's would shut down above 1% and this would leave many guessing when the battery would give out.
Needless to say, here at XDA - we managed to find the fixes. ;-)
And of course, we decided to take it to the next level.
How can we now push more out of our batteries?
RogerPodacter and theloginwithnoname have been working endlessly learning and understanding the how the battery registry works and together with dvgrhl they're finalizing a battery mod app which will help the N1 cope with the "learn mode" and changes. So do thank them for the great work they've been pushing out with! =)
They've helped us hammer out all the core details concerning the battery understanding, values, binaries, and we're wading through the mess to push the limits on the batteries (short of blowing them up as usual of course).
Be patient if the app isn't ready yet. And if you're a n00b, please don't mess around with the registry values and such if you have absolutely no idea what you're doing.
No one is gonna give a rat's poopoo if you blow up your phone and set your house on fire and gremlins kidnap your toes.
Peace out.
This thread is and methodology has served its purpose and many of us from this thread have moved on over to the Battery Calibration TOOL thread. The methods still work, but so do the newer methods at the tool thread, which I personally find is much easier and better.
If you'd like to use the manual method, it'll still work.
For those more interested in the newer method and I encourage you to do so - head on over through this link > http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=765609
+1
It happened to me yesterday. I am playing with my phone and I needed to check an important address on Google Maps, so I was thinking "Oh great I still have 9% battery" and then all of a sudden BOOM. It powered off. I mean seriously WHY have those extra 9% if I am never going to use them. So In reality my phone battery is like 80%
100%-(first 10% which drain in like 5-6minutes) - 10% that I never use cause the phone shuts off = 80% BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT COOL
happened to me on cm 5.0.7.1 about 7% battery
I guess this would be an appropriate time/place to ask this question. I had someone PM me asking how to calibrate their battery and I didn't know if I provided them with the correct response. What I've always done is let the battery drain ALL the way down until it dies~usually about 1% and then fully charge the phone while it is off. Then, let it die down once again on that charge and repeat the charging while the phone is off. Is that the correct way to calibrate the battery or am I taking unneccesary steps?
THATTON said:
I guess this would be an appropriate time/place to ask this question. I had someone PM me asking how to calibrate their battery and I didn't know if I provided them with the correct response. What I've always done is let the battery drain ALL the way down until it dies~usually about 1% and then fully charge the phone while it is off. Then, let it die down once again on that charge and repeat the charging while the phone is off. Is that the correct way to calibrate the battery or am I taking unneccesary steps?
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No idea as well honestly. I've never charged my phone while it's off... so that might be the issue...
But then again, my phone has often turned off at the 10% mark. So that's why I thought I'd get more input here on how we can actually find a way to calibrate our batteries or something.
i have two oem batteries and a dock..Everyday I completely drain the first and swap it out with a fully charged one off the dock and both batteries perform great and never shut down above 1% every single time. So the batteries are always completely drained and then have a slow no stress recharge, maybe this is why mine go to 1%?
chowlala said:
No idea as well honestly. I've never charged my phone while it's off... so that might be the issue...
But then again, my phone has often turned off at the 10% mark. So that's why I thought I'd get more input here on how we can actually find a way to calibrate our batteries or something.
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I notice that if I charge my phone while it is off and take it off about 20 minutes after the light turns green, the discharge rate is MUCH slower than if I charge it while the phone is on. Or, I will charge it while on, let it get to 100%, turn it off and continue to charge until the light turns green again. Either of those two ways give me the best results for battery life.
Doesn't the Li-on type of battery calibrate itself when charged from 0% (or the specified minimum) to 100%?
THATTON said:
I notice that if I charge my phone while it is off and take it off about 20 minutes after the light turns green, the discharge rate is MUCH slower than if I charge it while the phone is on. Or, I will charge it while on, let it get to 100%, turn it off and continue to charge until the light turns green again. Either of those two ways give me the best results for battery life.
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Hmm. Interesting thought. Guess letting it charge to 100 while its on is one thing, then turn it off so it maxes out before daily use. I'll try that tomorrow morning and see.
Stats have been recalibrated to pershoots kernels already. So tomorrow will be a good testing day.
LiOn batteries should NOT be drained completely. It is bad for them. You should simply charge to 100%, turn the phone off, let it continue to charge (you may be at 100% when in OS but not truly 100% to the battery) and then wipe battery stats.
hah2110 said:
LiOn batteries should NOT be drained completely. It is bad for them. You should simply charge to 100%, turn the phone off, let it continue to charge (you may be at 100% when in OS but not truly 100% to the battery) and then wipe battery stats.
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Yeah, the discharge part is actually true. There's more info here bout the batts, but nothing much bout calibration.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=669497
chowlala said:
Hmm. Interesting thought. Guess letting it charge to 100 while its on is one thing, then turn it off so it maxes out before daily use. I'll try that tomorrow morning and see.
Stats have been recalibrated to pershoots kernels already. So tomorrow will be a good testing day.
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The biggest thing I noticed right off the bat in doing this was that normally my battery drains from 100% to 90% in less than 30 minutes. After doing what I suggested, I see that my battery discharges much slower from 100% to 90%! Hope it works for you.
My phone was doing that ALL the time. Here's what i did that fixed the issue for me.
1.) Let my phone die as usual.
2.) KEPT IT DEAD... for 1 day
3.) Charged with the phone OFF for 1 day.
4.) Went to RA's recovery as soon as i turned the phone on and reset Battery Settings.
5.) Rebooted and all is well.
I hope this helps someone else.
(My phone would die at 13% EVERY time. It got really annoying when trying to Navigate when i forgot my USB cord for my PowerCup. :< )
And yes i know about the whole not letting Lion Batteries die. When i worked for T-Mobile and the customers would bring in their N1's doing this, every call to HTC this is what they told me to do. (Minus the whole awesome recovery and such). They said letting the battery drain will not hurt the phone as long as it regains 100% charge after the initial drain.
AGAIN. This worked for Me. So im not promising you anything. Plus the batteries are only 25 bucks from Google. And i have 4 extras... Just in case. I would invest in some if i were you. Cause lord knows, were going to do some SERIOUS stuff to our phones. Extra Batts dont hurt.
Lithium batteries don't have memories, that's a leftover idea from the old Nickel Cadmium (NiCad) and NiMh (Nickel Metal-Hydride) days. The idea with Lithium (Ion & Polymer) should pretty much just be charged up whenever. Letting them be drained completely isn't good for them and will reduce their lifespan (reduced mAh) although it won't almost immediately kill them ala lead-acids. Overcharging them via a circuit with a poor cutoff also isn't good for them as they'll heat up, phones or any decent AC charger should stop charging when they hit 100% though.
Probably about the best you can do is charge it to 100%, pull the battery and reboot the phone and then reboot it again. The charge calculation will be based on the rated mAh of the battery which depending on the quality of the battery and the charging system of the device could end up giving you some funny figures. Not much you can do about it though.
I just wanted to say that this link does mention a proper calibration charge, it just does not go into detail.
Item 3 of "General Lithium-Ion Battery (LIBs)Usage":
• Although it is said that LIBs do not have memory, it's not entirely true. LIBs have gauges that monitor performance of cells, and if you do a lot of small charges, it won't let those gauges to monitor a full battery potential, causing an invalid indication of charge level. A complete charge/discharge should be made when battery capacity seems reduced, that will calibrate gauges and they will provide your phone with correct charge level status. A full charge/discharge cycle should be done every 30 (or so) partial charges.
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My assumption of a complete charge/discharge cycle would be:
1. drain battery until the device dies
2. charge the battery to 100%
3. power device on
4. drain battery fully until device dies (no small charges!)
5. charge battery to 100%
This should allow the battery gauges to recalibrate and improve battery capacity.
People seem to be in the dark about lithium ion batteries, how they are charged, and how the device estimates battery charge remaining.
Lithium batteries do not have memory effects, but the phone does keep a file with charge info about the battery; it uses this to estimate charge left and how to charge safely when the device is powered on.
When properly charging a Li-ion battery, the last 10% of the charge should take almost as long as the time it takes to charge from 0 to 90% (well about half as long meaning a full third of the charging time should be going into the last 10% of the charge) Charging with the device off, charges the battery more completely and consistently.
Li-ion battery chargers use a type of charge cycle called constant amp/constant voltage. The battery will be force fed amps until the battery's voltage peaks and it will then be fed a constant voltage. (around the 90% charge mark) During the constant voltage phase, the amps that the battery is taking in will be monitored; as the battery gets closer to full charge the amperage will drop more and more, until it is just a tiny trickle. When it gets to that point, the battery is fully charged. Obviously charging with the device still powered on creates a problem for that type of charging. So the battery can only be charged to the peak voltage, then the charge cycle must stop; as the last 10-15% of the charge can not be completed safely.
It is always good to let a device run until dead and then charge with the device off a couple times when the device is new, and then charge the device from empty while powered off once every couple months. (do not do it too often, as Li-ion batteries prefer to be between 50-80% charge for longer service life) This allows the device to maintain a proper reference data file on the battery and its charge state. this data file is what Android uses to estimate the charge in the battery, if the file is not accurate, the device may power down sooner than it should, or not charge fully to a true 100% state. (peak voltage state when powered on that is)
Also, Li-ion batteries are rated for capacity from a discharged voltage of 3v. So a 1500Mah battery is rated to provide 1500mah of power from fully charged to a final discharged voltage of 3v.
I do not know what the minimum operating voltage of various devices is, but if it is higher than 3v; then the phone must shut down at its min operating voltage and not the 3v needed to get full capacity. My Nexus one shuts off around 3.5v so there is around 25% of the actual rated battery capacity left. (remember what I said about Li-ion batteries liking to be between 50-80%, this left over capacity means that running the battery dead repeatedly is less harmful than if you drained the battery to a true 0% state)
There is also a voltage drop on a battery when under load. So if you are putting a heavy load on the device (like a 3D rendered game heavy gps use) then the battery voltage may drop to below the device’s min voltage. This means that if the phone shuts down during this time, you could probably turn it back on and get a few hours of standby or a few more minutes of light use. This could be another cause for people seeing shut downs when the battery gets around 10%.
The amount of power in a battery is high, especially in Li-ion batteries with their high energy densities. Over charging a Li-ion battery can cause an explosion, literally, that little battery in your phone could remove some fingers. Over discharging is bad as well, as it can start a fire; though like I mentioned above, the cut off voltage is above the 0% state, so that is unlikely here.
Ive proposed this before and got a bit shouted down, but thumbs up if anyone comes up with anything
As i see it, its not a problem with the battery. Its a problem with the battery meter. Since following a regime of deleting my batterystats.bin file, i dont see that issue. Its the same on my g1 as it is on my n1.
This is what i do... when i charge my phone, i charge it until 100%. When it reaches that 100%, i use either use the terminal or root explorer to delete the batterystats.bin file. After which i immediately power off the phone. Now, when its powered off(and still attached to the usb charger) the light should be green. But usually its not! Sometimes it charges up to a full hour longer before it turns green! When it turns green, power the phone back up and enjoy tue extra kick of battery life. Its not actually gaining battery life, its just resetting tue battery meter in the phone. This could only be done with a rooted phone. Oh, i think that this whole innaccurate battery meter thing is a problem with android in general. The meter becomes innaccurate with time. Sometimes extremely innaccurate.
Using the terminal...
su(press enter)
rm /data/system/batterystats.bin(press enter)
Then power off
Wow. Lotsa pewpewz here. Haha.
Again, after all the discussions, seeing that most of us agree the N1 keeps "stock" of how the battery chargers, is there a way for us to check or see how the battery is being calibrated, etc?
Not so much an app to modify the calibration, cuz that'll just be too dangerous, but something more like a tool to monitor it, so we know if it's calibrated right or wrong.
Deleting the batterystats.bin file isnt an app. Its either a script you run to delete it or physically deleting it. And its not dangerous. Ive done it well over a thousand times with my g1 and n1 combined. If you wanted to find out how the calibration work, i guess you could make a copy of your batterstats.bin and read it
Ok so Here's the deal
When I flash a rom I charge the phone till it hits 100%. I then reset the battery stats and go on about my day. With in a few minutes of being off the charger my battery has now dropped down to about 96 %. I do realize that batteries do not stay at 100% but this is crazy. I've only deep cycled my battery once for fear that it may damage my battery.
I Am using Teamwhiskeys ultra awesome bionix-v rom with ttabals oc kernal. I know I am to expect a slightly more rapid drain but this is crazy. I have even tried to lower the vcore and I slowed down the cpu to 800mhz. It still drains just as fast.
The odd thing to me is If i turn my phone off and let it fully charge to 100 percent reset stats then turn on phone It will show full for a minute then drop down to to 96 or 95 percent.
I personally think my battery is damaged but spare parts shows that it is ok.
So i am rather confused by this .
I know I should probably use the stock kernal but it seems like its just as bad with that.
I have looked at the threads about battery life and I am not expecting it to be amazing just hoping it will be ok!
Tell me what ya think !
mt battery play tricks on me too when my phone doesent see that im lookin at it it shows 90 when i look at it and phone notice it bounces to 85 like it hates me , lol but dont take my words for it P
Spare parts would show that too. I remember when I had my G1 spare parts would tell me it was fine. But a 3 hour full battery doesn't seem fine does it? Id suggest getting it replaced.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
Ill probably nurse it... but I am having major ocd type problems about it.
I cannot stress this part enough, so I'm putting at the top, do not do the following often, as it can have a negative effect on Li batteries if done too much.
You want to try what is known as a bump charge. With your phone off, charge to 100 percent. You will see the green battery icon with "100" on it once it reaches full. Unplug from the charger for a minute, then plug it back in, phone still off, and let it reach 100 again. If you want you can do this a third time, do keep in mind, bump charging too much or with any type of frequency can have negative effects on your battery, but doing it once in a great great while helps with with what you are experiencing.
thanks Br1cK'd and those who replied.
I have tried the bump charging method. I am affraid that my efforts to repair my battery are causing it more harm than good.
ok i just restored bionix v and had it charge to 100 percent
spare parts says
battery level 100
battery scale 100
battery health good
battery voltage says 4243mv
battery temp 30.0
hazard99 said:
Ok so Here's the deal
When I flash a rom I charge the phone till it hits 100%. I then reset the battery stats and go on about my day. With in a few minutes of being off the charger my battery has now dropped down to about 96 %. I do realize that batteries do not stay at 100% but this is crazy. I've only deep cycled my battery once for fear that it may damage my battery.
I Am using Teamwhiskeys ultra awesome bionix-v rom with ttabals oc kernal. I know I am to expect a slightly more rapid drain but this is crazy. I have even tried to lower the vcore and I slowed down the cpu to 800mhz. It still drains just as fast.
The odd thing to me is If i turn my phone off and let it fully charge to 100 percent reset stats then turn on phone It will show full for a minute then drop down to to 96 or 95 percent.
I personally think my battery is damaged but spare parts shows that it is ok.
So i am rather confused by this .
I know I should probably use the stock kernal but it seems like its just as bad with that.
I have looked at the threads about battery life and I am not expecting it to be amazing just hoping it will be ok!
Tell me what ya think !
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Click to collapse
There is one thing you are messing up. If you flash your phone on a 100% charge then you DO NOT need to wipe battery stats. You only have to wipe battery stats if you flash when your battery is not at 100%!
hazard99 said:
Ok so Here's the deal
When I flash a rom I charge the phone till it hits 100%. I then reset the battery stats and go on about my day. With in a few minutes of being off the charger my battery has now dropped down to about 96 %. I do realize that batteries do not stay at 100% but this is crazy. I've only deep cycled my battery once for fear that it may damage my battery.
I Am using Teamwhiskeys ultra awesome bionix-v rom with ttabals oc kernal. I know I am to expect a slightly more rapid drain but this is crazy. I have even tried to lower the vcore and I slowed down the cpu to 800mhz. It still drains just as fast.
The odd thing to me is If i turn my phone off and let it fully charge to 100 percent reset stats then turn on phone It will show full for a minute then drop down to to 96 or 95 percent.
I personally think my battery is damaged but spare parts shows that it is ok.
So i am rather confused by this .
I know I should probably use the stock kernal but it seems like its just as bad with that.
I have looked at the threads about battery life and I am not expecting it to be amazing just hoping it will be ok!
Tell me what ya think !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not out of the ordinary for a battery indicator to show a few percent drop rather quickly on a LiIon battery. Secondly you should take a battery indicator with a rather large grain of salt. Expecting precision in single digit percentages from the indicator is unrealistic and nearly impossible to rely on given the nature of discharge of a battery. Batteries do not charge or discharge in a linear manner, and people do not use battery powered devices in a linear way either.
It is a visual guide, not a precise and accurate indicator. Many custom roms have a percent accurate indicator, but don't mistake this with being dead-on accurate. It is merely an attempt to make it a BETTER visual GUIDE.
To evaluate battery life properly is moderately time consuming, though rather obvious. Use your device as you would normally. Pay attention to how long it stays charged. If it's not staying alive for a reasonable amount of time (12-24 hours depending on what you are doing of course), then it's time to dig deeper. Apps that wake up and generate unnecessary Partial Wake usage, a lot of background application syncing or apps with short sync intervals, being in an area with poor data/voice signal....these are the usual culprits.
Apart from situations where people are playing around with experimental kernels (i9000 derived kernels tend to vampirically drain battery a few percent an hour regardless), the things that drain your battery are....things that "use" your phone. The more you do (and the more your phone is doing with your permission while it's in your pocket) the less battery you will have.
In the end it comes down to asking yourself some questions. Do you need to automatically update facebook, myspace, twitter feeds constantly when you can manually update them and be inconvenienced by a 10-20 second wait? Do you really need to update 35 rss feeds in Google Reader?
Most people's power related issues come down to three things.
1). Apps that wake up without your knowledge and waste battery for no good reason (I'm looking at you Media Hub!!)
2).All those other apps and widgets that are updating inside your pocket when your not reading, watching, or caring about them.
3). Being in an area with poor data/voice signal, forcing your phone to "hunt" excessively for a better connection.
Apps that wake up and do god knows what without your knowledge can either be removed, disabled, or frozen. Examining partial wake usage can give you insight into what may be going on in that scenario. Apps can be "Frozen" with Titanium Backup Pro (paid) or App Freezer (free).
The other part that is within your control are all the apps/widgets you actively use, and your decisions about how often (or even if) they update themselves.
There seems to be a debate on this topic as to whether you should do a FULL drain on your battery and I wanted to know what people's thoughts were on this in this forum.
I've used my phone twice now to the point where it has auto powered down on it's own. I will then hit the 'Power' button to ensure that battery is truly at 0% (the capacitative buttons blink for a second to confirm that I've hit the power button but there is no more juice left to turn the phone on).
I will plug into the wall charger and allow it to charge for 4 hours (usually around 4 hours, I'll check back to see and hit the power button and the onscreen battery display will show 100% charged).
I will unplug my phone, power on and keep using until the phone fully drains and powers off on it's own again before repeating this cycle.
However, others have stated that this is NOT necessary for Lithium Ion battery and can actually damage the circuitry of the battery? I've always been under the impression that you need to do a complete & full battery drain for lithium ion batteries at least 3 -5 full cycles/times before the battery has been conditioned/optimized for capacity.
Maybe I'm wrong...after all I'm coming from a G1 and this practice helped my atrocious battery life on that dinosaur!
If this is wrong, when should I be plugging my phone back in to charge? When it gives me the first warning to charge in (battery level turns orange - I assume this about 20% battery left) or on the "critical" battery warning when the battery icon in the notification panel turns red (assuming this is about 10% battery left)?
from what I've read in the past, letting your phone drain completely down until it shuts itself off is not good for the battery. I could be wrong but thats what I've read
nyydynasty said:
from what I've read in the past, letting your phone drain completely down until it shuts itself off is not good for the battery. I could be wrong but thats what I've read
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Yeah, I've heard both sides and I've conditioned my battery for the G1 because it seemed to drain faster if I plugged it into charge when there was 30% or so still left.
Well, I've done two complete cycles so I guess I'll just try recharging when it hits the red mark next time.
When you plug in to charge? Orange, red or whenever to top off?
i plug my phone in when i go to bed. I dont care what the battery is at. I also charge it while i'm at work so when I leave, its around 90-100%. My battery rarely reaches red.
nyydynasty said:
i plug my phone in when i go to bed. I dont care what the battery is at. I also charge it while i'm at work so when I leave, its around 90-100%. My battery rarely reaches red.
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LOL - that would prematurely killed my battery capacity on the G1! I went thru two batteries before I started draining all the way down. Made a difference between 4-6 hours and 6-10 hours.
Seems like this phone doesn't need to do that tho.
But what're you getting on average for battery life and display on time then?
nyydynasty said:
i plug my phone in when i go to bed. I dont care what the battery is at. I also charge it while i'm at work so when I leave, its around 90-100%. My battery rarely reaches red.
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I do the exact same thing. First with my Captivate and now with the SGS2 and the battery life on my captivate held pretty much exactly the same charge for the entire 15 months I used it. The battery on this SGS2 seems to last about 150-175% of the Captivate battery under the same conditions. I just came back from a week on the road where I spent 9-12 hours a day away from a charger and was using my phone constantly all day long and would get back to the hotel room with 30-40% battery left. Considering I was listening to music, playing plants vs zombies and sending and reading push email constantly throughout the day I am very satisfied with the battery life on this phone. I've never done any kind of conditioning or special battery maintenance.
DefTaker said:
LOL - that would prematurely killed my battery capacity on the G1! I went thru two batteries before I started draining all the way down. Made a difference between 4-6 hours and 6-10 hours.
Seems like this phone doesn't need to do that tho.
But what're you getting on average for battery life and display on time then?
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i stopped looking at my battery stats a long time ago. I'll peak in there once in a while but I dont really care what the stats show because I'm always around a charger. As long as I get through 12 hours or so without charging, i'm happy.
Some devices need a full drain cycle to properly calibrate the fuel gauge - ours does NOT.
Lithium ion batteries don't like deep discharging - in fact discharging them too much will permanently damage them (fortunately, all batteries sold to end users have built-in protection chips to prevent overdischarge - but do you REALLY want to rely on that chip?)
Similarly, they don't like charge being forced into them - so don't "bump charge". (Bump charging is removing and immediately reinserting the charger when the phone says charging is complete.)
For long-term storage, store them at around 50% capacity if not being used. LiIons that are stored at 100% charge lose capacity MUCH faster than ones stored at 50%.
A Li-Ion that has been sitting for a long time (months...) will develop a passivation layer that can be detrimental to performance - a few charge/discharge cycles will fix this. You don't need to do a full discharge/recharge - probably even from 90 to 70 and back up a few times should be fine.
Entropy512 said:
Some devices need a full drain cycle to properly calibrate the fuel gauge - ours does NOT.
Lithium ion batteries don't like deep discharging - in fact discharging them too much will permanently damage them (fortunately, all batteries sold to end users have built-in protection chips to prevent overdischarge - but do you REALLY want to rely on that chip?)
Similarly, they don't like charge being forced into them - so don't "bump charge". (Bump charging is removing and immediately reinserting the charger when the phone says charging is complete.)
For long-term storage, store them at around 50% capacity if not being used. LiIons that are stored at 100% charge lose capacity MUCH faster than ones stored at 50%.
A Li-Ion that has been sitting for a long time (months...) will develop a passivation layer that can be detrimental to performance - a few charge/discharge cycles will fix this. You don't need to do a full discharge/recharge - probably even from 90 to 70 and back up a few times should be fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what about short charging during the course of the day? For instance, while I'm at work, I like to plug it in for a bit and then use it off the charger. Then before I leave, I charge it again for a bit. Do you think thats okay to charge the phone for short ~1 hour bursts?
No, the battery itself doesn't do well with deep discharges, but every device with one has circuitry to manage this and keep it from happening. The phone will shut off before the battery reaches a critically low discharge state. Just as it will cease charging before it blows up. Just because the phone shuts off does not mean that the battery is too low.
Assuming the phone has the proper cutoffs, it's not really any different to do two discharges to 50% or one to 100%. There have been studies that say leaving it on a charger is bad, doing two 50% cycles is worse than one 100%, etc. I've always just trusted that the phone manufacturers design the battery monitor and control circuits correctly and not worry much about it. And I've never had to replace a battery yet and always get acceptable life.
It's lithium ion, not nickel cadmium.
Full drains are bad for lithium ion.
Sent from my SGS II
nyydynasty said:
what about short charging during the course of the day? For instance, while I'm at work, I like to plug it in for a bit and then use it off the charger. Then before I leave, I charge it again for a bit. Do you think thats okay to charge the phone for short ~1 hour bursts?
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That's the best way to charge it.
Sent from my SGS II
MikeyMike01 said:
That's the best way to charge it.
Sent from my SGS II
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that makes me even more glad that its what I've been doing forever - lol
thanks
lithium ion batteries dont like being under 30%. and they also dont do well if they are kept at 80 percent or above all the time. for longest battery life don't just let it sit on the charger all day after it fully charges.
I agree with Mikey here.
Also, batteries take charging current better (less wear) at lower states of charge. That's why I put a variable-current charging algorithm into my Infuse kernels (charginghacks branch on github)
800 mA at low voltages (200 above stock), dropping to 550 near the end (50 below stock).
Unfortunately, charginghacks is likely not going to be possible with our hardware. One of the differences between the I9100 and I777 is a different battery charger circuit - ours is far less flexible.
Entropy512 said:
I agree with Mikey here.
Also, batteries take charging current better (less wear) at lower states of charge. That's why I put a variable-current charging algorithm into my Infuse kernels (charginghacks branch on github)
800 mA at low voltages (200 above stock), dropping to 550 near the end (50 below stock).
Unfortunately, charginghacks is likely not going to be possible with our hardware. One of the differences between the I9100 and I777 is a different battery charger circuit - ours is far less flexible.
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This phone actually charges with the screen on though, so it's not like the Infuse where the battery would drain with the screen on and the phone charging.
MikeyMike01 said:
This phone actually charges with the screen on though, so it's not like the Infuse where the battery would drain with the screen on and the phone charging.
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Infuse would charge with the screen on - but not if the screen was on AND the CPU was cranking.
(worst-case was navigation at full brightness - and I've seen reports that the I9100 also has the same problem.)
Entropy512 said:
Infuse would charge with the screen on - but not if the screen was on AND the CPU was cranking.
(worst-case was navigation at full brightness - and I've seen reports that the I9100 also has the same problem.)
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When web browsing, playing a game, or other general use late at night I'd plug the Infuse into the charger. It would still drain. Doing the same on the SGS II and it at the very least maintains it's battery level, so it's a drastic improvement over the Infuse.
One of the worst things you can do to a lithium battery is discharge it completely. They don't suffer from "memory" yet every time someone here in the forums complains that they are getting crappy battery life the instruction to discharge and recharge to 100% before clearing stats pops up.
For those who are interested here is an article that explains in detail.
batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
My main question- Is there some function in android that looks at the maximum depth of discharge level of the battery or is it that most people don't understand the characteristics of L-ion and confuse them with those of Ni-Mh or Ni-Cad?
I want to know because if I need to completely discharge to get better perfomance, despite the reduction in charge cycle lifetime, I will do it but only infrequently.
I've only let my battery discharge completely once, and it wasn't on purpose. From the posts I see here I think I get above average battery life. About 18 hours miui before I go for the charger and on 2.2 roms I'd get 20 hours and still have 40% or so to go. So no I don't think completely discharging your battery does anything for battery life.
Sent from my T959 using XDA App
I have never run mine down completely. Gotten it to about 6% but that was because I was fighting ROM flashing problems. I usually call 25-30% enough for me and plug in then. I am also getting 30 hours out of my 2.2 with a good deal of use. I used to have a Motorola and their batteries are total crap. If you EVER let it get down below 10%, it took some real work for it to charge correctly and boot up. Even as much as a hardware mod where I have had to cut the wires on a USB charge cord and charge it rigged up with the wires pressed against the battery and prongs in the phone. Very dangerous, but worked for a last resort.
Discharging the battery is not for the sake of the battery,but more so for the ROMs data and how it acquires the battstats usage. I only run it up and down and clear stats when flashing a new ROM, but I do use my phone moderate to heavy daily and have had great success in battery life the way I calibrate it.
The solution I think is to use a larger capacity battery and regulate it to narrower window of operation never fully charging or discharging.
The fastest killer though seems to be heat.
I have read several times that your phone does not fully discharge the battery...that there is still a minimal amount of charge,not enough for the phone to opperate but enough to not damage the battery when it shuts down
Maybe the batterystats file can be saved after being calibrated once and then restored after every wipe oor flash.. that would save some time aabd according to you guys, batt life too
Sent from a cell tower to the XDA server to you.
I've only ever calibrated my a few times and only after flashing a new rom. I never run my battery down after resetting the stats. I just use my phone as I normally do. My understanding of calibration is that it's not about squeezing more life out of the battery despite what most people think but of getting a more accurate measurement of the battery's actual charge. Also while it's true that the phone will shut of before the battery is completely discharged damaging the battery, allowing the battery charge to drop that low shortens your battery's life and decreases the amount of charge your battery can hold.
What gets me is I also read somewhere that for optimum battery life you should keep your battery level somewhere between 70%-40%. Of course that doesn't stop me from charging my phone to 100% everyday. I don't remember where I found that article but I'll post a link if I can find it again.
The reason this bad advice about completely discharging your battery persists is probably the same reason people keep recommending automatic task killers.
batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
ok, ok ill volunter, ill watch porn till my battery"discharges" At least my log will be interesting
radiohd said:
One of the worst things you can do to a lithium battery is discharge it completely. They don't suffer from "memory" yet every time someone here in the forums complains that they are getting crappy battery life the instruction to discharge and recharge to 100% before clearing stats pops up.
For those who are interested here is an article that explains in detail.
batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
My main question- Is there some function in android that looks at the maximum depth of discharge level of the battery or is it that most people don't understand the characteristics of L-ion and confuse them with those of Ni-Mh or Ni-Cad?
I want to know because if I need to completely discharge to get better perfomance, despite the reduction in charge cycle lifetime, I will do it but only infrequently.
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Discharging the Battery & Running the Battery Dead is 2 Different things!
We recommend running the battery dead ( Phone Shuts Off ) & recharging while off to train the Android OS from Full > Empty..
Running the Phone until Dead is not Going to hurt the Battery in anyways shape or form despite what you may think or read!
The Reason is, the battery is never fully Discharge & still holds Voltage.. The Calculations of Charged / Dead is at the Kernel Level, so even when dead it still has a 3.4v still or roughly..
As long as the kernel isn't tampered with, discharging the battery via the Phone will never hurt the battery period!
Now, Based on the link you posted you would have to run the battery down past the safe discharge point.. Via some other means of killing the battery, other than using the Phone.
To help ease your mind, Remember this:
~ Charge levels is controlled by the kernel
~ Even when Phone powers off, there is still plenty of charge in the Phone's Battery
~ Battery is never Fully charged, as this also hurts lithium batteries
Roughly every Android kernel does not let lithium battery get below 3.4v and at most 96% charged.
Hope this helps,
~Eugene
If you are still concerned wait until your phone turns off and stick your battery on a meter. You will see there is still power left in it...
My original battery that came with the phone got great life, then couple of months later it was discharging in like 2-4 hrs(froyo), so I called, they sent another one free...5-6 months later that one started doing it as well, so I pulled out the old one from the drawer, it powered on at like 85% ! and I was getting crazy ass life out of it on miui over 30 hrs one time...now that one is acting up again, so I'm going to try to swap again..lol...maybe there's something to not using them for a while...
I've used diff roms and combinations of draining/recharging...calibrating, not calibrating...it's always different results..honestly I don't think there's any rhyme or reason to it other than the fact that many vibrants have diff hardware and there will always be some weird quirk on a per user basis...
As far as hurting it by draining it all the way, I hardly think that's the case seeing as with both batteries I've always let it run down...not on purpose but there has been many many times I've plugged in at 1% or had to power back on because it died...charged it up and got 20-30hrs no prob..usually issues come up when flashing a new rom...
i think it all comes down to luck of the draw. ive had my vibrant since launch day, and i still manage great battery life. my battery is actually stamped 7-02-2010. every 2 weeks or so ill drain the battery completely, turn it back on and allow itself to die again, and finally allow it to fully charge overnight or 4 hours. i usually get a good 7-8 hours of constant use on cm7, or over 24hours if let on standby.
im still debating if i want to grab an epic 4g touch battery as well to increase it even more.
qpinto said:
im still debating if i want to grab an epic 4g touch battery as well to increase it even more.
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what's this about?
Epic 4g batteries are 1800 and fit in our vibes.
Dr.Stainedglove said:
what's this about?
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1262035
in there they tested in a store since the epic 4g touch battery fit into a regular epic 4g, if it would fit into a vibrant. only thing is you have to put the battery in facing inside, and it fits and works 100%
Yeah the Epic 4G batteries fit in our Vibrant's. You can buy knock-off one's (that work well) for 19.99$ US! Here's a thread about it...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1316492
Epic touch battery for the win. I've been rocking it for a few weeks. I was on miui and getting 14-16hrs. I recently went back to froyo and yesterday I got 12hrs off of a 67% charge.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
dont know if people have seen this article but i thought it was pretty interesting about the battery stats file not actually needing to be deleted...
http://www.androidcentral.com/wiping-battery-stats-doesnt-improve-battery-life-says-google-engineer
jonen said:
dont know if people have seen this article but i thought it was pretty interesting about the battery stats file not actually needing to be deleted...
http://www.androidcentral.com/wiping-battery-stats-doesnt-improve-battery-life-says-google-engineer
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Lol one of the biggest flukes in our forum haha.. people will harm their battery to calibrate it and it doesn't even do anything ...
Thank god I only calibrated once
sent from the xda app on my android smartphone.
Hi everyone i have been using wifi 5.0 about 3 months now it satisfied me enough and i am sure will continue. But the only issue which makes me unhappy is when i am gaming or using gps battery finishes rapidly. I would like to learn when to charge the device is 25% ok and when i am using it on charge even when its full is it bad for the battery life?
Yes you should unplug it when it gets full.
Sent from my YP-G70
durukankurum said:
Hi everyone i have been using wifi 5.0 about 3 months now it satisfied me enough and i am sure will continue. But the only issue which makes me unhappy is when i am gaming or using gps battery finishes rapidly. I would like to learn when to charge the device is 25% ok and when i am using it on charge even when its full is it bad for the battery life?
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Click to collapse
don't leave it on the charger longer then 20-30 minutes after it reaches 100%, any longer can be damaging to the battery if done repeatedly.
Wish these chargers were more like the motorola ecomoto chargers that cut off charging automaticaly once the battery hits capacity.
daniel644 said:
don't leave it on the charger longer then 20-30 minutes after it reaches 100%, any longer can be damaging to the battery if done repeatedly.
Wish these chargers were more like the motorola ecomoto chargers that cut off charging automaticaly once the battery hits capacity.
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Thank you for your answer but every time i am charging it over nights i am always turning it off and go to sleep what i want to say i cant wait to be 100% then sleep is there any app to stop charging when its fully done. And isnt it ok while gaming o keep the charger cuz u know after playing 1 hour of fifa12 battery nearly going dead? thanks again.
Mevordel said:
Yes you should unplug it when it gets full.
Sent from my YP-G70
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So you mean this devices are not made for using on charge like laptops?
durukankurum said:
Thank you for your answer but every time i am charging it over nights i am always turning it off and go to sleep what i want to say i cant wait to be 100% then sleep is there any app to stop charging when its fully done. And isnt it ok while gaming o keep the charger cuz u know after playing 1 hour of fifa12 battery nearly going dead? thanks again.
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stopping charging has to be done within the charger itself, so no there is no app that can stop it, plus apps couldn't do anything when the device is powered down anyway.
An hour of a game kills your battery? I can play atleast an hour probably closer to 2 of angry birds and thats from less then 30% and i'm on the 4.0 player which has a much smaller battery, sounds like you've got some battery drain issues to work thru.
daniel644 said:
stopping charging has to be done within the charger itself, so no there is no app that can stop it, plus apps couldn't do anything when the device is powered down anyway.
An hour of a game kills your battery? I can play atleast an hour probably closer to 2 of angry birds and thats from less then 30% and i'm on the 4.0 player which has a much smaller battery, sounds like you've got some battery drain issues to work thru.
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yeah u are right about apps no way any app to work when the device off.
I mean maybe 1h and 20 min. with 50% brightness on and i guess fifa use more data than angry birds when ur playing.
anyway its important to know that i shouldn't keep charger on when its 100% because usually when i am home i was using it like that thanks again.
do u think the app called 'sense analog' may make the battery life shorter.
Something is definately wrong, because I can play MC3, which is even more intensive the FIFA on my Gplayer 4.0 for more than 1.5 hours and still have some life left, and the Gplayer 4.0 is only rated for 4/5 hrs and yours is rated for over eight!
After a full recharge, while still plugged in download battery calibration from the market, and follow it's instructions, after you do, while STILL plugged in, reboot. After a full reboot, unplug it, and DO NOT REBOOT until your gplayer completely dies (forces shutdown). Once that occurs, plug it in, let it charge to 100% (while on), leave at 100% for about 15 minutes, unplug, and use as normal. That should fix your issue, unless your battery is dying, which should not occur, even if you are abusing it badly, for awhile longer.
durukankurum said:
yeah u are right about apps no way any app to work when the device off.
I mean maybe 1h and 20 min. with 50% brightness on and i guess fifa use more data than angry birds when ur playing.
anyway its important to know that i shouldn't keep charger on when its 100% because usually when i am home i was using it like that thanks again.
do u think the app called 'sense analog' may make the battery life shorter.
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haven't seen the 5.0 screen in person but if the brightness levels are anything like the 4.0 why do you have it so high? My brightness is at like 15-20% with autobrightness OFF.
First, like many others already said, it sounds like something is wrong with your battery. I'm on a 4.0 and playing two hours of a really intense 3D game with auto-brightness indoors will bring the battery from 100% to 50% (maybe it even uses less battery).
Second, as to how to conserve battery life, Rule #1 (as others have said): definetely do not keep it plugged it at 100% for too long. Then, something I tried on my iPod and have been using ever since: keep the battery between 50% and 100%, and once a month, completely empty the battery (until it shuts down) and after that charge it to 100% (this is called a charge cycle). As to my iPod's battery, before I was using this, the battery life got shorter and shorter, but after, it didn't shorten noticeably anymore. On the computer I'm writing this on, for a couple of months, I barely followed this plan, and I lost about 5% of my battery capacity (I have a battery widget that tells me what the total capacity is) within one or two months, but then I started following it a little more closely, and actually got some of it back. Over six months later now, I have lost about 10% of my battery capacity (from the original capacity), except that I should do a charge cycle in the next couple of days, and the last time I did a charge cycle, I got about 5% of the original capacity back, not to mention I have broken rule #1 probably too often and for way too long, often for several hours
My 5.0 can play games for hours before it dies but it has strange batery levels..From 100% to 75% it goes very fast.around 40 minutes when you play game..and then on 75% it stays there for 2hours when you play game and with regular use it can stay all day on 75-70% ..after that it fastly drops to 25% and just when you thing you need to recharge it can stay on 25% forever..you can play 2 more hours of game on 25% or with lighy use it will stay all day on 25%.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA
daniel644 said:
stopping charging has to be done within the charger itself, so no there is no app that can stop it, plus apps couldn't do anything when the device is powered down anyway.
An hour of a game kills your battery? I can play atleast an hour probably closer to 2 of angry birds and thats from less then 30% and i'm on the 4.0 player which has a much smaller battery, sounds like you've got some battery drain issues to work thru.
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This is not correct. NO modern device has ANY smarts in the external charger - nearly all current phones (and every smartphone on the market for the past 3-4 years) has a constant voltage 5.0 volt USB input. Modern "chargers" are not chargers at all - they are dumb 5 volt power supplies, nothing more.
Charging "smarts" are handled by electronics in the device itself and have been for ages. (For all practical purposes, the Player 5.0 is a Galaxy S smartphone minus the cell radio...)
The kernel and charger hardware automatically handle charge termination and restart themselves. This is, for example, why Daily Driver can charge at higher current levels than stock at low battery (but drop the current as the battery reaches nearly full in order to stress the battery less).
Oh, as far as battery percentage display - the method used for estimating state of charge on the Players is abysmally primitive and highly inaccurate.
Battery Charging YP-G70
I always charge my completely standard YP-G70 overnight. As I understand it, the charger only provides voltage and in this case it's 5vdc. The device's battery management software draws the required current to charge the battery. If you install 3c's "Battery Monitor Widget Pro" you can see a charging graph showing the current levels drawn over the full period of charging. The charging current is stepped to control battery temperature and is reduced as the battery approaches full charge. By the time the battery reaches full charge the current draw is down to a trickle charge and will not overcook the battery. I usually leave the device switched on, which further protects it by maintaining a small load. One of the problems I have found with this device is that this charging regime, along with the fairly large capacity of the battery, mean that the battery can take up to six hours to fully charge, which confirms, in my view, that overnight charging is OK.
hanthesolo said:
Something is definately wrong, because I can play MC3, which is even more intensive the FIFA on my Gplayer 4.0 for more than 1.5 hours and still have some life left, and the Gplayer 4.0 is only rated for 4/5 hrs and yours is rated for over eight!
After a full recharge, while still plugged in download battery calibration from the market, and follow it's instructions, after you do, while STILL plugged in, reboot. After a full reboot, unplug it, and DO NOT REBOOT until your gplayer completely dies (forces shutdown). Once that occurs, plug it in, let it charge to 100% (while on), leave at 100% for about 15 minutes, unplug, and use as normal. That should fix your issue, unless your battery is dying, which should not occur, even if you are abusing it badly, for awhile longer.
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I downloaded the app but its not working i am going to charge my device like the way u said, thank u for ur advises
Entropy512 said:
This is not correct. NO modern device has ANY smarts in the external charger - nearly all current phones (and every smartphone on the market for the past 3-4 years) has a constant voltage 5.0 volt USB input. Modern "chargers" are not chargers at all - they are dumb 5 volt power supplies, nothing more.
Charging "smarts" are handled by electronics in the device itself and have been for ages. (For all practical purposes, the Player 5.0 is a Galaxy S smartphone minus the cell radio...)
The kernel and charger hardware automatically handle charge termination and restart themselves. This is, for example, why Daily Driver can charge at higher current levels than stock at low battery (but drop the current as the battery reaches nearly full in order to stress the battery less).
Oh, as far as battery percentage display - the method used for estimating state of charge on the Players is abysmally primitive and highly inaccurate.
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First of all thank you for this valuable information, thus I can keep my device on plug while i am driving and using gps otherwise on long distance its annoying to keep checking the battery while driving with gps app on.
Other think is i guess its normal but just to ask, The device becomes really hot on charging while i am gaming. What do u think?
Is there an app that takes time of your battery like today I turned on at lets say 7:00am and the battery dies at 9:00 and you forget the times but the app says how long it lasted. Is there some app like that?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA
3c's "Battery Monitor Widget Pro" gives all the battery information you could ever need. A data log and graphs allow performance to be analysed over any period of time. You can set markers to indicate charger plugging and unplugging times. Hope this helps.
Sent from my YP-G70 using xda premium
durukankurum said:
First of all thank you for this valuable information, thus I can keep my device on plug while i am driving and using gps otherwise on long distance its annoying to keep checking the battery while driving with gps app on.
Other think is i guess its normal but just to ask, The device becomes really hot on charging while i am gaming. What do u think?
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Off course it will be hot..you play game which hots cpy and gpy and at same time you recharge batery which hots battery..but if battery reach 50 degrese celsius player automaticly stop recharging no matter whow much battery is full.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA
durukankurum said:
Other think is i guess its normal but just to ask, The device becomes really hot on charging while i am gaming. What do u think?
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Gaming = CPU and GPU cranking at full tilt with the display on - of course it's going to get warm.