There are quite a few threads both in this subforum and in the Atrix general forum by those of us interested in the Linux Webtop environment. It strikes me that, while this is running on top of an Android phone, working with the Webtop environment is somewhat different from normal Android development.
I sent a private message to Mr. Clown, the moderator of this forum, to ask if a separate subforum for Webtop development could be created. He said he'd consider it, but needed to hear more requests.
Do you think this is a good idea?
It might be nice for those of us working on such things as getting gcc to work in the Webtop Linux, getting xterms up, getting the Webtop to display on a remote X client, getting remote machines to show up in rdesktop running on the webtop, getting X windows applications to run on the webtop, getting Chrome to run on the webtop, etc. etc. etc....if we could have a separate forum for this unique capability of the Atrix.
Thoughts? PMs to Mr. Clown to help suggest it?
I second this, webtop is just getting opened up and there is going to be a lot more threads about it
I think this is a really great idea, and use qemu + wine may launch some windows apps.
But this needs root of webtop, and I don't think moto will open root purview for anyone. They think the handset needs better security. It's hard to say if the development on webtop is doable or not.
we already have webtop root!
cnyarx said:
I think this is a really great idea, and use qemu + wine may launch some windows apps.
But this needs root of webtop, and I don't think moto will open root purview for anyone. They think the handset needs better security. It's hard to say if the development on webtop is doable or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regular root counts for the webtop as well.
Yep, a separate Webtop section would be keep things a bit cleaner.
It's a great idea n probably the best way to keep things from getting cluttered
Thanks, I will monitor this and if we have a huge amount of requests we can create this. I think it can take a month or 2 to see the phone behaviour's with the public and how development on xda goes. I'll keep this thread here.
Cheers,
+1 for a separate forum
+1 for separate.
Not only does that make the place a little cleaner, it will make searching for a particular procedure that much easier when you select "webtop" or "android" development to search.
+1
Especially now that Moto has announced that webtop will be included with all their high-end phones!
I think that this would be a good idea.
+1 for separate forum.
+1 for separate subforum
+1 for separate forum
Would make it easier to find what your looking for.
+1 to webtop dev subforum.
I think that this may deserve a forum of it's own potentially since it will be on all high end moto devices, but we'll see how far dev'ing goes for it.
Bump and +1 because I like things and this needs to be a thing!
+1 b/c I missed this thread the first time around.
Webtop has come a long way since this was created and theres quite a few threads buried in the dev section.
+1 for new subforum
+1
Espcecially as CM7 now has working FP, dock audio and Landscape mirroring. The only major thing left is Webtop.
this would be great. you could move they webtop mod thread into the new area.
Related
Hey everyone,
We've made a small change to this forum by giving it a different name. This is now the *default* Android development forum for Galaxy S II. Any works that are completely original will be filed in the Original Android Development forum. Everything else will go here.
We have a more long-term solution to the ROM situation in the works. It'll be a database-driven ROM upload tool that will make it super easy for users to find and rate the ROMs that you upload. You'll be hearing more about this in the coming months.
For now, please continue to provide feedback. Thank you for your help in making XDA a more organized place.
Thanks!
P.S. If you think your ROM should be placed in the Original Android Development forum, send me a PM.
Edit from noppy22: this thread is no longer relevant so I unstuck it...
Sveitus,
I am dissapointed that the original explainatory thread was closed without reason after it was collecting opposing comments. Not cool.
I believe what you've posted (not done, I am confident that this was done with some consultation, somewhere) should be discussed in a wider context.
To that end, I've opened a thread in the XDA general forum with an admittedly emotive title "First and Second Class ROMS, 1st, 2nd class users". Please track this thread, assuming it's not lost amidst the noise.
I would have posted my concerns in the original notification thread except...
What gives?
Just imagine someone from sensation comes here and sees two development threads...
Sensation owners must be jealous by now..
But why is this only done on the GALAXY S2 subforums? Please, implement this on all phone subforum. I want to see how others would react.
Still think this is a stupid idea. If devs don't want other devs recycling their works, better not publish it. Or you can just close the thread of the ROM that was derived from an another ROM without permission/due credit.
The current situation is not something new to all of us.
There were always have been such ''issues'' among the rom developers.
xda team the way you chose to work this out is not good at all.
I'm starting to think that you don't listen to the majority of the users...
You hear a few dev's that probably are jealous of others...
This is not right for the community.
I personally am not supporting anyone particularly, but you must find another solution.
giokou said:
The current situation is not something new to all of us.
There were always have been such ''issues'' among the rom developers.
xda team the way you chose to work this out is not good at all.
I'm starting to think that you don't listen to the majority of the users...
You hear a few dev's that probably are jealous of others...
This is not right for the community.
I personally am not supporting anyone particularly, but you must find another solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I 100% support this view...
If this is the case, then no custom roms should be in "original" section, as they are all derived from the stock manufacturer's roms.
khein said:
But why is this only done on the GALAXY S2 subforums? Please, implement this on all phone subforum. I want to see how others would react.
Still think this is a stupid idea. If devs don't want other devs recycling their works, better not publish it. Or you can just close the thread of the ROM that was derived from an another ROM without permission/due credit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All hell would break lose and their would be a mass exodus of developers and some pissed off members.
And why was the other thread closed. Perhaps XDA didn't like that all the negative PR they were getting. This plan was poorly conceived and executed. And to make it worse, XDA is being the judge, jury and executioner.
I am quite disappointed that this unjustified separation and disqualification of some devs work is still not corrected. You justified your step by "feedback" asking for it. I believe you are severely misleading people here.
You earned a lot of justified feedback in the first thread being deleted meanwhile and still you don't get things sorted out.
It is obviously totally wrong to piss off devs and force them to prove they are not guilty of what you may think. It ought to be the other way around: you should have a prove to claim what you state before you behave (and take action) the way you did. Some kind of US wild west mentality around here. I understand when people think that you only try to protect some of the devs being closer to you or being longer active on xda than some others. The selection of Roms being put to one or the other section proves that already since there seems to be no logic behind your decisions. Some early birds being put to the second class thread while some others who have just released quite usual stuff but were active with other hardware before have been put to the first class thread. And till now no kind of explanation why this or that Rom has been put here or there? What about Litenin e.g. which has been asked for a dozen times in the first, deleted thread ?
And above all: what kind of guilt do you think of ?
We are talking about open source here and all Roms are derived from Samsung stuff except for CM / MIUI. So where does originality start and where does it end? And who may decide: Even if a custom ROM was copied from another custom one in the first step it might have become an own developement over time.
jlevy73 said:
All hell would break lose and their would be a mass exodus of developers and some pissed off members.
And why was the other thread closed. Perhaps XDA didn't like that all the negative PR they were getting. This plan was poorly conceived and executed. And to make it worse, XDA is being the judge, jury and executioner.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The other thread was closed because it was a discussion on the Derived ROMs Forum format, which as you state wasn't what we hoped it would be. So, changed the forum format. The old discussion was closed and a new one started to discuss this iteration. The thread was also started and stuck by svetius.
zikarus said:
I am quite disappointed that this unjustified separation and disqualification of some devs work is still not corrected. You justified your step by "feedback" asking for it. I believe you are severely misleading people here.
You earned a lot of justified feedback in the first thread being deleted meanwhile and still you don't get things sorted out.
It is obviously totally wrong to piss off devs and force them to prove they are not guilty of what you may think. It ought to be the other way around: you should have a prove to claim what you state before you behave (and take action) the way you did. Some kind of US wild west mentality around here. I understand when people think that you only try to protect some of the devs being closer to you or being longer active on xda than some others. The selection of Roms being put to one or the other section proves that already since there seems to be no logic behind your decisions. Some early birds being put to the second class thread while some others who have just released quite usual stuff but were active with other hardware before have been put to the first class thread. And till now no kind of explanation why this or that Rom has been put here or there? What about Litenin e.g. which has been asked for a dozen times in the first, deleted thread ?
And above all: what kind of guilt do you think of ?
We are talking about open source here and all Roms are derived from Samsung stuff except for CM / MIUI. So where does originality start and where does it end? And who may decide: Even if a custom ROM was copied from another custom one in the first step it might have become an own developement over time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thread hasn't been deleted, it's been closed. The reasons (while obvious) are above.
Clearer..
<sarcasm>
This titling does make it clearer..
Example:
Original Development: CM7
It's built from the ground up with a myriad of coded additions to be a truly 'Original' product.
Development: Everything else
All other ROMS are stock deodexed upgrades.
</sarcasm>
Don't like this idea...
DaveShaw said:
The thread hasn't been deleted, it's been closed. The reasons (while obvious) are above.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Closed or deleted - did not see it but no big difference anyway.
And there is nothing obvious neither about the closing nor the separation.
If you like to install a new tool do so. Build it, introduce it. Till then leave things as they were, stop separation and maybe excuse for the mess you produced by an unbiased decision... My 5 ct
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
I really don't understand what an "original ROM" is. Google wrote the only original Android ROM imho.
here's a thought.
Villain Rom Lite is in "original" even though it's clearly based off VillainRom.
There's CLEAR favoritism going on here.
It should either be merged with the original or moved. It's just the same ROM with removed apps. How is that "original"?
Simple Result:
As far as I see; Some devs are out of business and as far as I feel, more to be...
mynameisjon said:
here's a thought.
Villain Rom Lite is in "original" even though it's clearly based off VillainRom.
There's CLEAR favoritism going on here.
It should either be merged with the original or moved. It's just the same ROM with removed apps. How is that "original"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhm actually the fact that thread was buried a few pages until yesterday meant svetius may have missed it. Moved it across.
That's grand, we don't have derivated roms anymore, we have originals and others (stolen, fakes, not so cool). I like the way mods are listening...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
I must admit, the way the mods have chosen to separate the two development sections doesn't sit well with me at all. The criteria for which section a ROM goes in to is very subjective and open to various interpretations, all of which are prone to the moderator's possible bias.
Strictly speaking, only one or two ROMs are 'original development' and belong in that section. All the others are derivatives in some way or another.
A better way to clean up the dev forum would be to have a couple of sub-sections; perhaps one for all ROMs (regardless of source), one for kernels and related modifications and another for android-specific modifications. Then, be strict about enforcing the sub-section criteria. Also, ask ROM chefs to state in their OP whether the ROM is based on another ROM and to credit the original developer/chef.
Everything else goes in Themes & Apps.
Also, having a mandatory format for thread titles (a la the HD2 forum) is an excellent way to keep things tidy and ensure that people know when a new release has been posted and what the releases are based upon. It worked over in HD2 rather well I thought. After coming from an HD2 to the S2, I thought that the S2 forums were a little untidy to say the least.
Ok, serious mode off, back to my usual sarcastic self.
OK, I dont agree with the splitting of the forums, but its not my decision and will go along with it. One thing that does really annoy me and needs to be fixed is that this new forum doesnt show up on the android app. Can that be fixed? I like keeping up with a few roms here and am usually on the move.
TheBishopOfSoho said:
OK, I dont agree with the splitting of the forums, but its not my decision and will go along with it. One thing that does really annoy me and needs to be fixed is that this new forum doesnt show up on the android app. Can that be fixed? I like keeping up with a few roms here and am usually on the move.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No harm in disagreeing! If enough people disagree, the mods may relent on this decision.
With so many different developers, so many different projects, and with such a massive TP community...i like to put forth the idea of a forum clean up. its becoming increasing disorganized with different tweaks pertaining to webos and android...and even other operating systems.
look at the hd2 forums. i'm sure most of you have at one point. i feel it would become easier to navigate to what your looking for and help novice users figure out what they are looking for.
android>general,Q&A,Development,apps
webos>general,Q&A,Development,apps
other OS>general,Q&A,Development,apps
accesories
just a thought. hopefully MODS will consider...even though it might take them a bit of time to do.
sounds like a plan, i'm new to the hp touchpad forums (mostly over at Xperia Play) but I've found that the HP Touchpad forums are VERY unorganised tbh.
it indeed needs reorganizing, cause if there still are people that use webos they are pretty mcuh overwhelmed with us android users. Im pretty sure if they didnt leave yet they will leave soon to a webos forum :/
Wasn't this discussed before when cm7 came about? We really need it but it seems to go unnoticed by the mods for some reason. Most unorganized forum that I belong to by a mile. Don't mean to be a jerk or come off as ungreatful, this place is a wealth of knowledge like no other, but it needs to be organized a little better with all the android attention now.
I would like a forum dedicated to developer drama, that way I can stay on top of it.
They should just copy how rootzwiki has it.
I agree there is still a lot going on with WebOS it would be great to have a new structure that included it...
mcsephoenix said:
I agree there is still a lot going on with WebOS it would be great to have a new structure that included it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is going on with WebOS? All I've seen is that they're slowly opening it up.
We probably won't know much - or have much update wise - for WebOS until v1.0 comes out later this year.
and I am all for better organization in the TP forums.
Yes
Yes it would be really helpful if all the topics are organised w.r.t OS(WebOs/Android) and Category(Apps/Games/Themes/Android Dev/Tweaks)
Hi there. Well I'm a little confuse, because I read in somewhere that CMods doesn't have support for Webtop OS, but it have Lapdock support, so my question here is, what does the phone when you put it in the Lapdock? I mean, what works? It's just Android working on a 11" HD screen? (sweet) or it's the Webtop by default without any mods?
I have a strong feeling it is the first choice since the Lap dock software was made by Motorola is not open source. I am not entirely sure though.
You should also check out the full Linux via web top mod, it might need to be a blur based ROM though for it to work
You have mirrored android (the screen you see on the phone) with the ability to use the keyboard and the trackpad for mouse.
The problem is that the mirror mode has the same resolution as the phone so the things are quite pixelated.
Overall the lapdock experience is much better on the CM9 ROMs mostly due to the different approach to UI and better mouse control.
Good luck
ToonShadow said:
I have a strong feeling it is the first choice since the Lap dock software was made by Motorola is not open source. I am not entirely sure though.
You should also check out the full Linux via web top mod, it might need to be a blur based ROM though for it to work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to confirm Webtop is actually a closed-source project based on open-source project so they released the open-source part but the closed-source part is still missing, that's why Android ROM Devs have many trouble with this because Motorola doesn't provide any support... And I personally find it stupid because it could sell the last Lapdocks on the market...
Slymayer said:
Just to confirm Webtop is actually a closed-source project based on open-source project so they released the open-source part but the closed-source part is still missing, that's why Android ROM Devs have many trouble with this because Motorola doesn't provide any support... And I personally find it stupid because it could sell the last Lapdocks on the market...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's interesting. I would say why not just build a custom webtop but now that I think about it, it will be pretty hard. Maybe the reason Motorola won't provide any support is to try and keep more people on their ROM, or at least a blur based ROM? Still pretty stupid; like you said, it will help them sell more lapdocks.
ToonShadow said:
That's interesting. I would say why not just build a custom webtop but now that I think about it, it will be pretty hard. Maybe the reason Motorola won't provide any support is to try and keep more people on their ROM, or at least a blur based ROM? Still pretty stupid; like you said, it will help them sell more lapdocks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that would be possible to make a webtop-like program that would detect the Webtop (HDMI + Keyboard + Trackpad) and switch on Ubuntu automatically. But now the problem is the development which needs talented Linux/Android developers and this is not so easy to find, especially talented Android devs who would take a whole month to make us happy. The easiest way is still installing a Blur ROM or just use VNC. I will receive my Webtop in 2-3 days, I don't even know which way to use it...
My Atrix got it's case cracked and the touch-screen display died, and given I already got a replacement phone I feel a bit adventurous. I wanted to see if I could build my own computer with what remains, so I wanted to run Linux natively (no Android). Given that there's a Linux 4 Tegra from Nvidia:
Is there a chance that I could build my own distro based on that?
Should I use another kernel (like the one currently used in gingerbread or CM7)?
Please note that I'm not trying to do webtop.
I thought of building my own handheld with the Atrix, or what remains of it. So any tips on how to get started would be great.
Cheers!
wrong section
ovitz said:
wrong section
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm... what section would you suggest other than Q&A?
It was moved. Sorry 'bout that. I was under the impression that development questions were on the other forum...
"Android development" is in the description. I think they keep that forum just for Android-specific things, even though Android is just a flavor of linux.
tonglebeak said:
"Android development" is in the description. I think they keep that forum just for Android-specific things, even though Android is just a flavor of linux.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're being way too literal. It's been used for all sorts of non-Android dev multiple times. Right now, Boot2Gecko is right there. The fact of the matter is that when it pertains to dev questions, this post would most likely be answered there. I'm pretty sure it'll die here on this forum with barely any useful answer, if at all.
The development section is mostly for things that are "in progress", ie. with "something to show". Questions, discussions and ideas go elsewhere.
As for your question, I believe I've seen a thread about this already, and quite recently too.
ravilov said:
The development section is mostly for things that are "in progress", ie. with "something to show". Questions, discussions and ideas go elsewhere.
As for your question, I believe I've seen a thread about this already, and quite recently too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've checked a few that I've found on the forum, but most had no answer and were about other devices. With regards to the Atrix or the Tegra, I've only found threads about webtop.
Not to argue too much about this too much, but I've seen threads that started with nothing in the dev section. Like the Kernel porting project that started as a mere placeholder for the project. Point is, I've done my research and found no pointers to the questions I have. I made it in case another dev had an idea about it. I may have missed something, but that's why I asked in the first place. If I believed I had covered all grounds by myself, I wouldn't have asked in the first place.
Lugaidster said:
I've checked a few that I've found on the forum, but most had no answer and were about other devices. With regards to the Atrix or the Tegra, I've only found threads about webtop.
Not to argue too much about this too much, but I've seen threads that started with nothing in the dev section. Like the Kernel porting project that started as a mere placeholder for the project. Point is, I've done my research and found no pointers to the questions I have. I made it in case another dev had an idea about it. I may have missed something, but that's why I asked in the first place. If I believed I had covered all grounds by myself, I wouldn't have asked in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you're looking to do seems similar to this question: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2110161
The difference between the webtop and a stand alone installation of Linux won't be that different, mainly it would just be where on the device the OS is installed and how video is handled. That said, I'm not sure about the kernel, specifically the video drivers, since they're intended for Android and may not be compatible with X. AFAIK, Wayland is closer to Android than X is, but Wayland isn't quite ready.
Anyway, assuming you did succeed, what you would end up with would be less like a true desktop (as you'd be pretty much locked into a specific kernel, and therefor any packages limited by it, but it doesn't invalidate the effort), and more like a persistent live CD, since the OS would be installed to an area mounted as read-only (to prevent flash wear), with access to an area that has read/write access, like in Android where you store apps and user files. Overall, it could be fun if you enjoy a challenge and aren't intimidated by soldering and using the JTAG connector.
lehjr said:
What you're looking to do seems similar to this question: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2110161
The difference between the webtop and a stand alone installation of Linux won't be that different, mainly it would just be where on the device the OS is installed and how video is handled. That said, I'm not sure about the kernel, specifically the video drivers, since they're intended for Android and may not be compatible with X. AFAIK, Wayland is closer to Android than X is, but Wayland isn't quite ready.
Anyway, assuming you did succeed, what you would end up with would be less like a true desktop (as you'd be pretty much locked into a specific kernel, and therefor any packages limited by it, but it doesn't invalidate the effort), and more like a persistent live CD, since the OS would be installed to an area mounted as read-only (to prevent flash wear), with access to an area that has read/write access, like in Android where you store apps and user files. Overall, it could be fun if you enjoy a challenge and aren't intimidated by soldering and using the JTAG connector.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, I might have to do soldering anyway. I'm not really intimidated by it and don't really care all that much for phone functionality and such. I'm not even interested all that much in X as my project is more towards transforming it into a handheld gaming (more like emu) device. I don't mind compiling software specifically for the system. The question is pretty low-level in that regard for me. I want to know if I have to do anything with regards to the kernel since it's specific to Android. Given that most emus I know that would run acceptably in a tegra 2 don't really need the GPU, I don't mind just using framebuffer so HW doesn't really interest me.
Lugaidster said:
Actually, I might have to do soldering anyway. I'm not really intimidated by it and don't really care all that much for phone functionality and such. I'm not even interested all that much in X as my project is more towards transforming it into a handheld gaming (more like emu) device. I don't mind compiling software specifically for the system. The question is pretty low-level in that regard for me. I want to know if I have to do anything with regards to the kernel since it's specific to Android. Given that most emus I know that would run acceptably in a tegra 2 don't really need the GPU, I don't mind just using framebuffer so HW doesn't really interest me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, it's going to be one of those areas where you'll have to make an educated guess, since as far as we know, no one has successfully pulled off a straight Linux implementation on the device.
That said, nVidia does have both Android and Linux images for the Ventana dev kit, so it should be possible. In my case, I would compare the source code for their Linux kernel vs the stock Linux kernel vs their closest Android kernel vs the stock Android kernel. The biggest thing is how the the device specific files translate from one kernel to another, because you'll likely need to translate the device specific files for the Atrix in the same manner. The changes may be subtle or they may be drastic. The main thing is to just be able to set the pins properly so you don't release any "magic smoke". Unfortunately, I see no source code for any of nVidia's kernels.
Anyway, that's how I would do it, but I do suspect that someone with more knowledge could find a much simpler approach and hopefully they'll chime in, but this part of the forums isn't the thriving hub of activity it used to be, so I don't know if that will happen any time soon or at all.
lehjr said:
nVidia does have both Android and Linux images for the Ventana dev kit
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Atrix is a Whistler, not a Ventana.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33289027#post33289027
ravilov said:
Atrix is a Whistler, not a Ventana.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33289027#post33289027
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the heads up and the link! :highfive:
Hi my name is Corey.
I'm starting this thread to get a better understanding from the developers point of view on the hardships, annoyances and general dislikes about android development. Stuff like the current tools, what feature you would like, and more importantly what parts of these IDE's you hate. I myself have been developing for android for about 6 months now and the first part for me is the interface, the fact that the IDE makes me do all the work instead of being automated in some way, and the setup process I have to go through to make sure the IDE is working on every new machine.
Yes i do have an entrepreneurial spirit but i think its a valid question and as a learning developer one i thought I'd get some background on.
Thanks for taking the time to help me out..
You should do some work for the galaxy mega 6.3 i9205........we need it.
2SHAYNE
coreybain3 said:
Hi my name is Corey.
I'm starting this thread to get a better understanding from the developers point of view on the hardships, annoyances and general dislikes about android development. Stuff like the current tools, what feature you would like, and more importantly what parts of these IDE's you hate. I myself have been developing for android for about 6 months now and the first part for me is the interface, the fact that the IDE makes me do all the work instead of being automated in some way, and the setup process I have to go through to make sure the IDE is working on every new machine.
Yes i do have an entrepreneurial spirit but i think its a valid question and as a learning developer one i thought I'd get some background on.
Thanks for taking the time to help me out..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably those impatient people who are constant asking for the next update/revision on roms lol