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Recently ive been wondering why android is so different compared to windows?
I mean, although android 2.2, 2.3, (2.4) is out and running, only a small percentage of the phones actually got the upgrade, and most of em are still running 2.1 or lower for the time being, so what is the point in having a new firmware available if you cant run it on your phone anyway ?
Android is just a firmware right ? So why cant it be like windows, when there is a new version, no matter what specs or brand of PC, you just install and your up and running... And phones are just like small computers right ?
So why doenst google make android just as compatible as windows, and as soon as a new version comes out, we just install it and were good to go ? I know this is sort or less the whole point of it being open source, but there has to be a solution to this.
This would actually make so much more sense than it is right now! I know all phone-brands want to add there personal touch to there android phones like SE did with timescape and mediascape etc, but its all just based on the same firmware right ? So why cant these things like timescape and mediascape be seen like an update ? rather than fully integrated in the firmware ?
In my opinion, phone brands should go back to what they are actually good at.. manufacturing phones, and google should go back to what they are good at, designing new android versions, this shouldn't be the other way around.
Could one of you pls explain this to me ?
As a master student in economics, IF android could actually be compared like windows as I just explained, this would only have positive effects on the android/phone market, instead of all these angry and disappointed customers...
http://gizmodo.com/5733556/the-complete-state-of-android-froyo-upgrades
this threat is what made me write this, it is clear we are not the only ones stuck with 2.1 (but the gods at XDA are doing their best to fix this!)
I understand your point. My take on it is about the fragmentation. I'm not commenting whether it is good or not, but here's what I think. Windows machine have a much higher memory where they can store drivers, settings, etc. Just Windows XP alone took approx 6GB? I don't think phones can have that much internal memory at the moment. Also, PC's have interfaces where everything comes out to the correct machine language (PCI, SATA, etc) While these lacks on phones. They have different architectures and peripherals that supports only that architecture. Therefore, to keep it lightweight, it is the manufacturer's responsibility that if they are using OS such as Android, that the OS works with their hardware, while on PC, it's more hardware to work with the OS.
I'm sure if there's a universal hardware interface for mobile devices and enough internal memory, your wish will come true
unknown13x said:
I understand your point. My take on it is about the fragmentation. I'm not commenting whether it is good or not, but here's what I think. Windows machine have a much higher memory where they can store drivers, settings, etc. Just Windows XP alone took approx 6GB? I don't think phones can have that much internal memory at the moment. Also, PC's have interfaces where everything comes out to the correct machine language (PCI, SATA, etc) While these lacks on phones. They have different architectures and peripherals that supports only that architecture. Therefore, to keep it lightweight, it is the manufacturer's responsibility that if they are using OS such as Android, that the OS works with their hardware, while on PC, it's more hardware to work with the OS.
I'm sure if there's a universal hardware interface for mobile devices and enough internal memory, your wish will come true
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I understand what you are saying, but then again, why dont we just manufacture android phones based on the same architecture ? So they will all be compatible with every version of android ?
If this could be accomplished in some way, manufacturers wont have to deal with the lack of compatibility of newer versions anymore, and every phone will run optimal with any given firmware.
Android is at the same development stage as windows when it was win.dos, effectively; the future development was not foreseen. The aggressive marketing by ms changed that, obviously, but pcs from that era are hopelessly outdated. Mobile manufacturers are keeping up with Google rather than being dictated to by them. Eventually, a physical threshold will result in Android updates being software instead of hardware.
I think...
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
android is a fairly new n young operating system... its hardly 2 yrs old....
give it time... the way its goin now it headed in the right direction (same as windows)... compatibility issues will be sorted as time progresses... bare in mind that android devices span vast array of price ranges (and thus diff hardware as suited for that price) so compatibility will be an issue which will be sorted out in time...
clintax said:
I understand what you are saying, but then again, why dont we just manufacture android phones based on the same architecture ? So they will all be compatible with every version of android ?
If this could be accomplished in some way, manufacturers wont have to deal with the lack of compatibility of newer versions anymore, and every phone will run optimal with any given firmware.
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Click to collapse
The problem is there's too many architecture to go for. A universal architecture means we're eliminating many companies. For example, say we choose snapdragon as our universal. That means ARM, NVIDIA, will all be taken out the competition. Of course ARM cannot build a microcontroller based on snapdragon's design either, this is due to licensing and such. I'm sure manufacturer wants something like you said, it will be much easier to manage, but chip makers are doing things their own way. Also, you have to consider how much new technology is being introduced to phones in just one year. It is massive. Even if phones have the same architecture, the problem that comes about is the memory size to store all the drivers. Either way, it will have to go through the manufacturer to strip it out, which would be back to where we start again. So it will not work out anytime soon...However I did heard Google is aiming to make a flexible Android where it can do something like you said, but looking at the hardware change, it's impossible for now
FWIW - I think that it's more to do with USP's - Each manufacturer could, quickly and fairly easily just bung stock android onto their hardware, and therefore make it extremely easy for us all to upgrade to the latest OS.. but they think.. "hang on, if we do that then all the phones will look and work in the same way.. why would anyone want to buy ours, over xxx competitors phone... no that simply won't do.. we must make our phones special, different and more appealing to XYXY subset of the market... that way we'll sell more phones than our competitors and eventually.. if we're lucky, we might just compete with Apple"..
Or something along those lines!
Gawd - I thought for a minute you actually wanted Android to be "like" Windows...
I nearly pooped myself.
k1sr said:
Gawd - I thought for a minute you actually wanted Android to be "like" Windows...
I nearly pooped myself.
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I was thinking the same way! Windows? Nah! Windows itself is a bloatware OS...
Deleted...
This question has flooded my mind almost as much as Android has flooded the market...
Does anyone else think that Android has gone out of control? I mean there are literally dozens of devices announced / released every week, updates are a mess, developing is tricky due to all the different versions of the OS, screen resolution, cpu, gpu etc. The custom overlays is so common that the AOSP phones are almost non existant.
Manufacturers release a new phone each week since its an easy buck because its free and they know that with Android it cant keep a decent life span since its forgotten pretty much the day its released since all the new phone arriving or due to arrive, so asking for good support is a bit much nowadays. It seems like Android is becoming the new "featurephone OS" since almost every phone released runs it, so imo it loses its Premium feel since i can run most of the same apps in a crappy free budget device than a high end monster save some games and speed...
I have had dozens of android devices, from the HTC Touch port, to the EVO 3D, and frankly its hard to get exited for an android device nowadays since theres always something bigger and better almost immediatly instead of living out its life span before it gets eclipsed by something else. Thats why i like the iOS and WP7 approach since they release it in batches (cept apple because its 1) in a certain time frame, so you know you dont have to worry about being left behind or being behind the curve for a good while (i you care about that stuff like me) OS updates are a sure thing, app compatibility is all there and it just feels more integrated and organized
Android feels like mess actually, i have an android and really like the OS but honestly, its a touch friendly version of Windows Mobile in my eyes. It has all the features you would wanr, but performance is inconsistant, user experience is a mess, updates are hit and miss, and development is a headache
Sorry to rant so much, i really like Android actually, but got to the point that flooded the market with such a thing has ruined a good thing imo
Any imput?
s3nT Fr0m mY pYrAmId fLaVoReD gLaCi3r
*Fixed a few things
Well, I believe that's what android is about. Its like windows, many different computers run different versions of windows. I understand the "premium feel" aspect, but there's no alternative to Linux on phones besides android.
on the other hand, no one wants to be as confined as iphone. there is nothing unique between one iphone and another. they are both iphones whereas android has variety
It'll really be interesting to see what the future holds. Android could replace Windows and MacOS in a lot of ways.
Good post OP. I feel, as you do, that the fragmentation of the Android platform is a complete mess. It would have been nice if Google had more control over what happened to the OS on a manufacturer level. I'd have liked, at the very least, to have seen a minimum hardware requirement, an outright ban on carrier bloat and manufacturer skins too. I'm a purist though and some people buy HTC, for example, because they want 'Sense'. Personally i believe these skins should have been an optional component, perhaps available as a Market download.
Updates to the OS should have been arranged in a more consistent and controlled manner too, but with the diversity of hardware it has become a crap-shoot. Manufacturers are churning out phone after phone and most are horribly derivative. Of course, it's all about the $$.
I'm a fan of what Microsoft are doing with the WP7 platform and can only dream about a similar scenario with Android!
I think its all good.Its all about freedom.The freedom to choose you firmware,kernal,ROM or what ever.Others like iOS are to confined.Its great.
It is just because android is "opened". All manufacturers can produce and sell a phone running android. Like the computers, for example, you can't say to HP that "Why did you guys releases computers so fast? ASUS just released one yesterday!"
Also about what you think android is complicated is because of it's customizability (ability to be customized). When it can be very personalized, it gets a lot of settings. When it have a lot of settings, things get complicated. This is also why every android device is unique
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I've always been a PC guy and have used Macs in the past. I'm just used to Windows as opposed to an iOS. The fact that Android is open sourced, it allows for any user to customize it however they want.
I own an EVO 3D, and own an iPod Touch. There's endless possibilities on what I can do on the 3D versus what I can do on the iPod. I also know that the iPod can be jailbroken as well.
I do understand your argument as there are many different phones that come out each week/month. It gets overwhelming as to which device is better and what not, but it all comes down to what the end user wants for a device that fits their needs. A typical user just wants to be able to call, text, and get online. These typical users would like to see different styles, colors, sizes that fit their lifestyle.
Apple has a standardized iPhone/iPod and it receives an update once in a while. Granted, you can pick out a cover for it in different colors and styles, but it has the same UI look.
But I, on the other hand, like to tinker and like to customize the device of my choice.
Based on the fact that we're all members here on this forum by choice and are happily reading and writing...I'd say that there's no such thing as too much.
Although I'll be honest, I was dying to just say about this much "...................." (there I said it)
i agree that android is all over the place with late updates ect however i love the fact that its available in all flavors not just one flavor like you know who.
Android is just the hip thing. It's quickly becoming to mobile-devices what MS-DOS/Windows was to home computers. Only, the licensing is different
That doesn't mean there's too much of it though. Android is still linux at its core, and part of that is putting up with the disorganized community development.
Ok, just wanted to put this up here.
I come from the legendary HTC HD2 so I know nothing is impossible from win6.5 to android is huge
Do you guys think a port of win8 will be possible? i mean they said 1gb of RAM is enough to run win8... and 1.5GHz should not be a problem if Atom is 1.6GHz, since we can overclock it and stuff..
so, is it possible, or whats talking against it?
Technically, its "possible". But nobody is going to take the time to port Windows8 to the Flyer. Windows is closed source, making porting it over extremely difficult. Plus, there would be no drivers to make the hardware work with the OS. I'm no developer, but the enormous amount of work to overcome these obstacles make them infeasible, compared to simply buying a Windows 8 device (when they become available).
On the other hand, there are developers who will try just for the fun of it. Will it be usuable to the general public? I doubt it....
Somebody tell Microsoft!
Hey this thing is already running a version of Linux, you see any ports to a full blown linux tablet?
Nice idea thou, the new Windows 8 looks to be finger friendly
yeah i know it will be a pain in the arse, but hey - some people like to do this just for the fun and recognition - you know, be the one who finally managed to hack win8 and port it to a android device.
its been done before, and i think many will be donating to help.
its a fun thing.. imagine dual boot
You could install Ubuntu on the Flyer, but for what , I don't know.
Read lots of issues and complaints about W8. Its a ubuntu mini wannabe. Its a nightmare on a pc and probably going to be classified as a cousin to vista. Windows is a mess structuraly compared to Linux, which is Android.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
There are a few reasons why it will never work, most of them people already mentioned
1. You can't compare a 1.6Ghz Intel x86 processor to a 1.6Ghz ARM one, the Flyer is well below the minimum specs.
2. Microsoft will not publicly release their ARM builds, they will only sell them directly to OEMs unlike the desktop version of Windows 8.
3. It's closed source.
4. If someone does miraculously manage to get it running (hey this is xda), functionality will be extremely limited as there is no legacy app support for ARM.
You could install Ubuntu like DigitalMD said and put Win8 on a VM in there.... doubt it would boot though and you would have to find chuck norris and make him round-house kick the lag.
From ALL of the Tablets on the Market, I have checked out ALL of them. The one that I'm the happiest with is the Sprint HTC EVO View Tablet. It's the LOUDEST of ANY & ALL Tablets on the market. Anywhere from a little bit to a lot louder. I know that it's just a 7" screen, but it has the best sound. I would like to get Windows 8 on the HTC EVO View Tablet. i hope that ANYONE can come up with a solution to this. If anyone can come up with a solution to this, then I would put it on the HTC EVO View Tablet ASAP!
It's not possible. Doesn't meet min specs.
We installed it at work on an HP Slate that was running Win7, and it constantly freaked out about the resolution not being high enough. If a device that was meant to run Windows OS is unable to run Win8, it's not going to happen on an Android device. At least not officially.
And considering we can't get an ICS build running, it's a pretty good bet we'll never get Win8 to run.
kudosmog said:
It's not possible. Doesn't meet min specs.
We installed it at work on an HP Slate that was running Win7, and it constantly freaked out about the resolution not being high enough. If a device that was meant to run Windows OS is unable to run Win8, it's not going to happen on an Android device. At least not officially.
And considering we can't get an ICS build running, it's a pretty good bet we'll never get Win8 to run.
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I have a slate 500. Did you set it to the higher resolution? Win 8 should work, although the screen is a bit off at the higher resolution.
A bit off topic, I know...
Well that was just one aspect of it.
We weren't able to set the resolution any higher then the max 1024x600. It just wouldn't allow anything higher. It *runs* but anytime you click/swipe etc it vomits error messages.
Still, so many challenges keeping it from happening on the view/flyer. It's a pipe dream.
Yeah this ain't gonna happen. Already got a very good , usable OS.
I"d spend my time improving that and creating better apps
Is it possible looking at hardware? Yes, I think so. The architecture should be fine, as there is an ARM version.
However, what do we need?
-Drivers for Windows 8, and if we want to make this work out correctly, we do need the ability to write drivers ourselves, which is a lot of work.
-A custom bootloader. I hope that, after we get ICS to boot on the Flyer correctly, we can work on a bootloader, as it would be really nice for a real tweakers-tablet, so there might be a possibility for this (not giving an ETA, as I don't know how much work it is and it will take a lot of time, don't get excited on this at all...)
And besides, when we can work on a native Linux-distribution, I don't think it's worth it to work on W8, especially because every way we get it running is not legal. Oh, and let's not forget the work it takes to get it to boot, as it would take quite some magic to get a Windows kernel booting.
redpoint73 said:
Technically, its "possible". But nobody is going to take the time to port Windows8 to the Flyer. Windows is closed source, making porting it over extremely difficult. Plus, there would be no drivers to make the hardware work with the OS. I'm no developer, but the enormous amount of work to overcome these obstacles make them infeasible, compared to simply buying a Windows 8 device (when they become available).
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Click to collapse
and what do you think about windows phone 7 on the HD2? i believe it was extremely hard, but people made it
Big_O said:
Read lots of issues and complaints about W8. Its a ubuntu mini wannabe. Its a nightmare on a pc and probably going to be classified as a cousin to vista. Windows is a mess structuraly compared to Linux, which is Android.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
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f**k you... don't write total bull****s here... it's not a noob forum. i didn't see any other complaints except people's noobiness.. they'll get used to the new controls. they're just awesome.
Naysayers always say nay. I'm amazed at the accomplishments @ XDA thus far and have learned never say never. I for one would love to see this happen.
Some people do things because their told it can't be done.
im using the rtm windows 8 right now i gotta say its pretty good ...early builds had issues but they did good quicker smother would be awesome if they could get windows 8 on my VIEW cuz its def built for mobile ...splashtop for now
Big_O said:
Read lots of issues and complaints about W8. Its a ubuntu mini wannabe. Its a nightmare on a pc and probably going to be classified as a cousin to vista. Windows is a mess structuraly compared to Linux, which is Android.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Technically possilbe, but it's extreemely unlikely to happen. Especially since windows is in no way open source, and the flyer doesn't have that many modders.
Before we start this discussion, i'd just like to say that the devs are doing a brilliant job of bringing android flavours to the Touchpad and this discussion should in no way be a deterrent to them doing their work.
Is it just me or is the touchpad a neglected device in terms of development compared to other tablets? i.e. asus, samsung, htc.
There are a huge number of devs and a wide variety of custom ROMS, themed ROMS, ported ROMS, Mods the list goes on and on.
As far as I'm aware of the problems (feel free to correct me) the source for half the hardware hasn't been released (such as the webcam) etc etc. so it kind of makes it very very difficult if not impossible to experiment with different ROMS.
Yes some out there can say to me "buy a tablet that was meant to run android next time" fair enough. But is it alot to expect the same level of development as usual android tablets?
webOS is very lovely but it doesn't cut it for me in terms of customisation (even with some of the childish looking themes on preware). CM9 has its issues still with regards to not everything working yet, but even when it's complete i still miss simple conveniences like VPN and connect WiFi using WPS automatically to name a few.
So can we expect that kind of development? or is it too much to ask.
I doubt we'll have Samsung level development, but that's true of any non-Samsung device. Have no idea why they're so popular, but usually the size of their dev communities put others to shame.
As you've pointed out, we don't have all our hardware working right now. Between that and the fact that CM9 itself (as a whole, not just the TP Version) is incomplete, its no wonder there's only two or three roms. Many people make their roms using another as a base, be it a stock firmware (of which the TP obviously does not have) or CM. Since CM9 is in a constant state of flux, there's no solid base for the TP yet.
As it is, we have the CM9 alpha, CM9 weeklies, AOPK, Unofficial Cornerstone kangs, MIUI, Classicnerd, Cherrykang... and that's just ICS based stuff. Add in Gingerbread roms and non-Android OSs like Ubuntu and you'll find we have a quite a good selection already.
my gripe with gingerbread ROMS is not as some people say "phone rom on a tablet" its just the fact that the apps recognize it as a phone and ruins the whole thing.
apart from MIUI, alot of the other ROMS look and feel pretty similar to me and there isn't much that sets them apart. granted cm9 is in its infancy (EVERYWHERE including my evo 3D, google definitely not redeeming itself over this update fiasco). I haven't really sampled Ubuntu to make a judgement on it.
I suppose if one was to put together something original a) it would be so hard people wouldn't bother attempting it cuz it's just too time consuming b) it'd be like making a lovely dish from leftovers....kernel's modified and compiled from things like htc jetstream (and rumor has it the GS2 on AT&T), ROMS put together from 7" android tablets most of which have the same resolution as the touchpad so it'll make life easier with respect to resizing.... again too much effort and time consuming to be worthwhile
I feel the TouchPad has great development. Especially when you consider a vast majority of the devices were sold before android was put on the device. When the fire sales happened the people that bought them didn't know android was going to be put on it. So anyone that wanted to play with android or build ROMs probably got an android tablet.
There will never be a full stock optimized android build. With the Samsung devices they have a solid start point, and a manufacturer that is devoted to the success of the device. HP has washed its hands of the TouchPad more or less. Everything done to get android on the TouchPad had been done by volunteers, without the resources really needed.
Samsung just generally makes things easiest for people to hack it. HTC and Asus ship their devices with locked bootloaders. Samsung doesn't, so they have one less hurdle right from the get go. The other side of that is Samsung makes great hardware, and decent software. This is easier to show in the phones. HTC makes good phones, but there is two or three extra hurdles that don't exist on Samsung phones. LG phones also don't have those hurdles, but their hardware isn't as good, and they are notoriously bad at getting android updates out.
Another thing to consider is the quality of android overall on a tablet. There is minimal tablet apps, and little motivation. Apple bet their company on the success of the iPad, Microsoft is doing the same with Windows 8. If either of them fail at their tablet product their entire company is in jeopardy. But Google wouldn't notice if android tablets fail, and flop. The entire thing to them is like a hobby. I think if android tablets were more popular in general we would see a lot more going on here. The fact that the TouchPad has sold more units than any other android tablet (combined I think) is really sad. Android just isn't taking hold in the tablet market, and won't without a lot of work by Google. But, what's their incentive? 98% of their revenue is from advertising. They still make money when an iPad pulls up an ad served by Google. They don't really have a lot of skin in the game, and it shows. I think the only reason Samsung, HTC, Motorola etc sell android tablets at all is because they don't really have a choice. They can't sell iOS tablets. The real test will be Windows 8 on ARM. If these companies can license W8 from Microsoft, its familiar to them. Its like building a Laptop or Ultrabook, they rely on Microsoft's ability to make compelling software, and enterprise friendly systems. That's really what HP was trying to do with the TouchPad. HP said the TouchPad wasn't their last tablet, but I would bet their next one runs W8. I think the tablet race us destined to be a two pony race, and that android isn't going to be the second pony much longer at the rate things are going. </rant>
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
ace9988 said:
Before we start this discussion, i'd just like to say that the devs are doing a brilliant job of bringing android flavours to the Touchpad and this discussion should in no way be a deterrent to them doing their work.
Is it just me or is the touchpad a neglected device in terms of development compared to other tablets? i.e. asus, samsung, htc. niggles (or problems; you decide) with cm9 has started to
.
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I get so tired of people complaining they don't get the same things from a $200 device as others get from their $600 ones. The reason the TPs are selling at the price they are is that the manufacturer stopped development. But, IMNSHO, the TP users are actually benefiting from that. If HP were still in charge, the TP would not have ICS, Ubuntu or Arch running.
this is my first tablet after all.....and when we're used to the development we see on our (assumed) android phones you can't help but compare, but like i said its only a discussion. and whats Arch?
Doesn't the fact that HP released the android kernel help development? How much does it help
Hey guys. Not sure if this is the correct place to post this, but it wouldnt allow me to post in other area as I have fewer than 10 posts. Appologies if it should be in a different area
Anyways. I am a big blackberry fan due to the physical keyboard, and although the new OS is good, im still an android lover when it comes to software
i'm just wondering though, now that their chipset has changed to the snapdragon processor, would this make it any easier to root the device to run a version of android in the future? Or would it be very difficult?
I remember they did it to the HTC device that was on windows 6.5 a while back and the initial process took quite a while, but once some people had android up and running the rest was a breeze
so question is, would anyone else be interested in this? there is a real lack of high-end phones with physical keyboards and this is one of the reasons i bought the Q10. i do however still love android
anyone else interested? post here or let me know how difficult the process would be.
I was thinking the same.
I would immediately buy Android phone with Q10 form factor. I would even try using BB10 because I dont use as many apps on my GNote. Problem is me relying heavily on Google services (drive, music, etc.) and it seems like BB10 lacks native Google apps.
Also I burned myself with Palm (and I have to say Pre 3 was great, definitely on-par with Android phones of its time) and can't be sure Blackberry will be around in six months from now
Same here
yodjone1 said:
Hey guys. Not sure if this is the correct place to post this, but it wouldnt allow me to post in other area as I have fewer than 10 posts. Appologies if it should be in a different area
Anyways. I am a big blackberry fan due to the physical keyboard, and although the new OS is good, im still an android lover when it comes to software
i'm just wondering though, now that their chipset has changed to the snapdragon processor, would this make it any easier to root the device to run a version of android in the future? Or would it be very difficult?
I remember they did it to the HTC device that was on windows 6.5 a while back and the initial process took quite a while, but once some people had android up and running the rest was a breeze
so question is, would anyone else be interested in this? there is a real lack of high-end phones with physical keyboards and this is one of the reasons i bought the Q10. i do however still love android
anyone else interested? post here or let me know how difficult the process would be.
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Click to collapse
Same here. I really need a qwerty phone, but LTE Android phones don't have it...
Yes, Please provide a way of rooting q10. I love qwerty phones. But no android phones has qwerty keypad.
You have the priv which is an android, and also you could have a jolla +physical keyboard (sailfish) which it is suppose that can run google services seamless. It is a non sense this lack of physical keyboards... we are going to a very basic scenario. Time ago we has touchkeyb, physical keyb and stylus. Can we call it progress?
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