SMOLED burn in problems? - Galaxy S II Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

Is anyone else worried about the burn in problems like the original moled had? My vibrant had it bad... Please don't tell me its not an issue with the original sgs screens, type in google and you will see a lot of complaints on this topic, and my screen is burn in galore. Just wondering if this new screen will suffer from similar problems or if samsung recognized and corrected this issue?
Sent from my SGH-T959

I have burn in on my nexus one right now. Status bar is burnt in, and the keyboard is burnt in. Yes the galaxy s2 will likely do it too.

RogerPodacter said:
I have burn in on my nexus one right now. Status bar is burnt in, and the keyboard is burnt in. Yes the galaxy s2 will likely do it too.
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Click to collapse
Wow, really? I got my Desire (AMOLED) for more than a year now and I can't notice anything.

Zero burn-in after a year's heavy use of my SGS1 - just leave the no activity timeout to 5 minutes or less and you'll be fine.

cTrox said:
Wow, really? I got my Desire (AMOLED) for more than a year now and I can't notice anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had burn in after the first month of my nexus. About all people have it, you just haven't noticed it yet.

I see two possibilities here. Some people notice it more, some people based on their usage suffer from it more. I got the N1 when it released for AT&T, dont remember when exactly that was, somewhat more than a year? I'm just now getting to where I notice some burn in but it seems slight to me, not an issue now. Dont know which way I fall in my first observation but I can say that given enough time I think that most people will notice some burn in, how much time, I dont know. I suppose the bottom line is how how much time you spend with a device and will you move on before you get to where burn in becomes an issue to you with your usage. Thats a tough question to answer.

Nine times out of ten burn in on a mobile would be from the status bar. So if you're worried just download and use Go Launcher and set the slide up gesture to hide and show it.

That's interesting people with lcd displays have burn in as well... Well my status bar is permanently there, half the icons on my desktop are also burnt in, had my vibrant since it first came out, its set to 30 sec timeout and auto bright. So do amoled displays just have it worse or is it about the same?
Sent from my SGH-T959

Related

Possibility of S3 Screen Burn in?

I got a Galaxy S (i9000) and I'm now considering upgrade to S3 or One X.
There are a lot of reasons for me to get S3 but what bug me most is the lifespan of SUPER AMOLED HD. My 1year+ i9000 got slight grey burn in all over the screen, looks like some stains on the glass and feel kinda dirty. It is visible at all brightness and even worst in low brightness. I really hate this as I would like to keep the phone for history/as a memento.
1) I think this question is quite obvious but I will like to ask anyway. Will S3 screen suffer from burn in? Will it be worst than i9000?
2) Should I care about burn in problem ? why yes and why no?
3) Will Super LCD2 suffer from burn in or any other degrade?
Thanks a lot to those who reply.
I think the best answer would be
it *COULD* get burn in, but with normal use it *SHOULDN'T*
Samsung have removed most features that keep the screen on for too long (except smart stay.. but that is smart).
e.g. no "night clock" mode
My SGS2 got bun in 10 months down the line, so there is a chance the SGS3 could also.
HOX won't as LCD is a different tech.
Wouldn't intend to use one as a night clock, but I'm wondering if using an S3 as an in-car sat-nav is the best idea for this model - screen often on a quite high brightnesses for hours at a time... ?
WibblyW said:
Wouldn't intend to use one as a night clock, but I'm wondering if using an S3 as an in-car sat-nav is the best idea for this model - screen often on a quite high brightnesses for hours at a time... ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the image refreshes or changes often enough it will reduce the chances. Would you use it as such every day? if not I wouldn't worry too much.
My 2 year old desire (amoled one) has a burn in of the top notification bar. I guess it's possible on the s3 too, as the notification bar is always visible.
On mine the burn in is visible only when some app uses the full screen with a light colour. And I think it just became noticeable recently, which means that the s3, using pretty much the same tech, would also last quite some time before this started.
Don't worry.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA
I don't think I would keep Sgs3 for more than 2yrs. So the burn in issue shouldn't bother me
Sent from my Incredible S using XDA
1.) The S3 will most probably suffer burn in as well. I have seen heavy burn in on SGS1, SGS2, Note and GNex. It's very unlikely that the SGS3 will be safe from the issue. I don't think the burn in will be worse than the i9000, probably just the same.
2.) Yes, you should worry about burn in. Every time you enter a full-screen app, you'll always see those images burned into the screen. Thing is, the burn in will only get worse.
3.) SLCD2 will not have burn in. Sure it will degrade over time (years!), but the degradation is balanced - entire screen will fade, unlike Amoled screens that will degrade one spot (pixel) at a time.
Keep in mind that LCD technology is years ahead of LED. Plus, Samsung even admitted that their Amoled screens don't have a very long lifespan.
If you intend to keep your phone, go for the One X, or better yet, the Optimus 4X HD.
To avoid screen burns....as far as i know....try keeping ur screen brightness as low as possible ........
Sent from my GT-S5830 using XDA
My Galaxy S II has some burn-in for the status bar, which can be seen on blue backgrounds. There is also cloudy burn-in where the time is displayed in the bar. I always use maximum brightness.
Ways to minimise or prevent burn-in:
1) Set your screen time-out as low as is convenient for you (1 min with SmartStay should be fine)
2) For apps that have the option like PowerAmp and QuickPic, select NOT to display status bar.
3) If you really want to be sure, as the status bar is the most likely to burn-in since it's the only element that's consistently displayed use wallpapers that are dark or black where the status bar touches it so there's no edge.
4) In cases where the screen will be on for long periods of time while displaying certain elements consistently on screen, use a lower brightness.
5) And if you're really concerned, use a launcher such as Apex or Go Launcher EX that allows the option to hide the status bar.
But in the end, I would suggest not getting too hung up on it. By the time it could potentially become a problem such as on your original GS it should be fairly cheap to get a new replacement.
nikzDHD said:
My SGS2 got bun in 10 months down the line, so there is a chance the SGS3 could also.
HOX won't as LCD is a different tech.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
However SIII is capable of getting burn ins, meanwhile it wont be as fast as burn ins on SII, since SIII uses pentile matrix which means less blue subpixels which degrade much faster than green or red ones.....i own SI for year and half with blue theme since ICS release which means blue theme and there isnt much of degratation with normal usage....however screen doesnt look as it did when i bought it and im annoyed that statusbar region (which is black for most time ) has blue tint-well known to amoled screens......we can expect similar behavior oj galaxy SIII, but i think it will degrade slower because i think samsung is trying to improve lifespan od samoled
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA
I had an Galaxy S2 and Galaxy Nexus before. They both had a 'temporarily screen burn', I fixed it by downloading 'Dead Pixel Fix', they flash different colours constantly, I left it for 30 minutes to 1 hour and my burn went. Although I can't guarantee this will fix all burns, it's worth a try if you do encounter it.
I hope Samsung finally have fixed this problem.
Sharpshooterrr said:
I hope Samsung finally have fixed this problem.
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Click to collapse
The S3 use almost the same Display like the Nexus. I don't think so...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA
I'm seeing a very slight burn-in on the status bar on some S3 display units already.
Sharpshooterrr said:
I'm seeing a very slight burn-in on the status bar on some S3 display units already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shame. Unlikely this will make a good phone choice to use as a GPS in a car (on at full brightness much of the time with some static screen elements).
I hope it lasts for 2 years at least!
Sent from my GT-I9300 using XDA
I have status bar burn in!
Sharpshooterrr said:
I'm seeing a very slight burn-in on the status bar on some S3 display units already.
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Click to collapse
It has been 2 weeks since I got this phone and I am already starting to see burn in on the status bar on blue backgrounds!
My Galaxy Note is 3 months old and gas terrible status bar burn in as well!! What gives???:crying:
angelofmusic said:
It has been 2 weeks since I got this phone and I am already starting to see burn in on the status bar on blue backgrounds!
My Galaxy Note is 3 months old and gas terrible status bar burn in as well!! What gives???:crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On the bright side, since your devices are new, you can still have them replaced.

Having problems with my screen...anyone else have having them?

I just got my first gs3 5 days ago. Love it, but yesterday i noticed a dot on the screen in the lower left quadrant. I could only see it when the screen was off and under direct light. I tried cleaning it, but it was still there, i could also feel a little abrasion when i ran my finger over it. So i take it back to best buy, tell them what's up and they swap it out, no problem. The guy said it could have been either an air bubble in the screen, or the chip could have over heated causing a "blister" to raise up. "Weird cause I've only had it for a few days, and haven't even rooted it yet" So i get it, had to go to work right after so i didn't have much time to play with it. I wake up this morning and i notice that when the screen is on a black background, like the messaging app, or something similar, i can see a "darker" dot in around the same place where i had the problem on my last one, i can also see several other smaller ones around the screen. The dots are easy more noticeable when i turn the brightness up. This is the 16 gig Sprint model, is anyone else having similar issues with their phones? I'm going to go back up there tomorrow to try and swap it out again, hopefully they don't give me and flak about it.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda premium
Zor Omega said:
I just got my first gs3 5 days ago. Love it, but yesterday i noticed a dot on the screen in the lower left quadrant. I could only see it when the screen was off and under direct light. I tried cleaning it, but it was still there, i could also feel a little abrasion when i ran my finger over it. So i take it back to best buy, tell them what's up and they swap it out, no problem. The guy said it could have been either an air bubble in the screen, or the chip could have over heated causing a "blister" to raise up. "Weird cause I've only had it for a few days, and haven't even rooted it yet" So i get it, had to go to work right after so i didn't have much time to play with it. I wake up this morning and i notice that when the screen is on a black background, like the messaging app, or something similar, i can see a "darker" dot in around the same place where i had the problem on my last one, i can also see several other smaller ones around the screen. The dots are easy more noticeable when i turn the brightness up. This is the 16 gig Sprint model, is anyone else having similar issues with their phones? I'm going to go back up there tomorrow to try and swap it out again, hopefully they don't give me and flak about it.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Known issue on this type of screen. There is another thread burried somewhere about it. Every gs3 phone has it.
Sent from my SGS3
jjlean said:
Known issue on this type of screen. There is another thread burried somewhere about it. Every gs3 phone has it.
Sent from my SGS3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not every screen has this. However over time every screen will have the problem. As far as I can tell I have none. Plus the other model that I had also didn't have any dots that I could see. I know it could have also been minimal. but it is a known issue with these screens has the other poster stated. Worth returning over? I don't think so.
I could understand having this problem a year down the road, but 1 day after first turning on the phone! That sounds a little much. I think I'll try returning it one more time...maybe 3rd times a charm?
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda premium
That's AMOLED for ya. If you only see one dot...you're lucky. Hope you don't get one with 5 or more. :angel:
The dots/bleed marks should NOT be more visible when you turn the brightness up, they should be less visible at higher brightness.
Take it back, get another one. Keep doing it until you're satisfied.
ingenious247 said:
The dots/bleed marks should NOT be more visible when you turn the brightness up, they should be less visible at higher brightness.
Take it back, get another one. Keep doing it until you're satisfied.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1!
Also I have an ATT model. I checked a friends and I didn't see any one his as well. He also had ATT. Not that it matters much just saying.
Also you can use this app...CHange your brightness up as far as you would like to help check for the dots/ink...
https://play.google.com/store/apps/...DEsImRlLmxhcHBlLnRpbS5hbmRyb2lkLmxjZHRlc3QiXQ..
Great small app. Also helps to see if you have any dead pixels!
hope this helps you out...
Cheers...
Thanks for the app recommendation. Tried it and didn't see any dead pixels or dots on any of the screens. In fact, i can't see the dots that i did before! I don't know if it's because it's brighter out versus when i was looking last night? I guess I'll keep an eye on it for the next few days and see if it gets worse. Would this problem get worse over time or is this just something that is there and will always be there? Thanks.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda premium
I would have kept the first one, if you're critical enough you can find some kind of a defect in any phone.
Zor Omega said:
Thanks for the app recommendation. Tried it and didn't see any dead pixels or dots on any of the screens. In fact, i can't see the dots that i did before! I don't know if it's because it's brighter out versus when i was looking last night? I guess I'll keep an eye on it for the next few days and see if it gets worse. Would this problem get worse over time or is this just something that is there and will always be there? Thanks.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I understand it can get worse as time goes on. same with any burn ins and so on. Again this is what I understand. By the this time next year I will be replacing this device anyways in most cases unless nothing good comes out.
i wouldn't worry about it if its gone. Could it have been some type of bleed effect or something? I don't know. I'd just watch it for now. Check it so often. If you end up not minding it (If there even if an issue..) then i would keep the device. At higher brightness settings is when you can see it from my understanding. Again I could be 100% wrong. Wouldn't be the first time!
Cheers...
Zor Omega said:
Thanks for the app recommendation. Tried it and didn't see any dead pixels or dots on any of the screens. In fact, i can't see the dots that i did before! I don't know if it's because it's brighter out versus when i was looking last night? I guess I'll keep an eye on it for the next few days and see if it gets worse. Would this problem get worse over time or is this just something that is there and will always be there? Thanks.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In mine you can only see it in just the right light. Dull light.
Sent from my SGS3
Yeah, I'm just going to keep it i think unless something drastic happens. I could only see it when it was dark and i had to look hard for it, but with these devices you want it to be flawless. Thanks for the comments and such. I'll keep an eye on it for the time being.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda premium

[Q] Screen burn on galaxy s3

Hi Guys, I have screen burn problems again with my S3, had the same issue on S2 also.
I use Sygic sat nav software 4-5 hours a day 5-6 days a week, and I now have a nice circle in the top corner of my screen where the speed limit is.
I am running an app called Screen burn-in tool which was recommended when i searched online, its been running now for about half hour but i don't think it will help at all, but its worth a try.
Does anyone know if screen burn is covered under manufacturers warranty or not?
also while running the app i can now tell that the status bar is also burnt into the screen, how very annoying after having this phone for a little over a month....:crying:
joey jojo said:
Hi Guys, I have screen burn problems again with my S3, had the same issue on S2 also.
I use Sygic sat nav software 4-5 hours a day 5-6 days a week, and I now have a nice circle in the top corner of my screen where the speed limit is.
I am running an app called Screen burn-in tool which was recommended when i searched online, its been running now for about half hour but i don't think it will help at all, but its worth a try.
Does anyone know if screen burn is covered under manufacturers warranty or not?
also while running the app i can now tell that the status bar is also burnt into the screen, how very annoying after having this phone for a little over a month....:crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i would not think that Samsung will take it back since it is not a manufacturing defect, you could try.
pashinator said:
i would not think that Samsung will take it back since it is not a manufacturing defect, you could try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ill just see how it goes for now! I guess I can drop it and get a new screen on the insurance
joey jojo said:
ill just see how it goes for now! I guess I can drop it and get a new screen on the insurance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does samsung specifically state not to have static images on the screen? If so, then yes, it is not a manufacturer defect. However, if there is no mention of it, you could possibly argue that there was no forewarning of the possibility of screen burn.
Good luck, keep us updated!

Screen Burn?

Hello.
Today i noticed that my main screen has a burn in.
I used AMOLED Burn in fix and i can see the message bar from whatsapp and also the bottom screen buttons etc.
Anyone else had this problems?
Considering the v10 uses LCD, not OLED or AMOLED....no
Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
But why can I see whatsapp text entry bar thing on the grey background. And also the home/back buttons etc
LCD does not burn in. I don't know what you could be seeing, but it seems very highly unlikely.
Sent from my LG-H901 using XDA Free mobile app
aniqpirzada said:
Hello.
Today i noticed that my main screen has a burn in.
I used AMOLED Burn in fix and i can see the message bar from whatsapp and also the bottom screen buttons etc.
Anyone else had this problems?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have the same issue. i dont know what to do. it has some kind of image retention issue. after that i also noticed a lot of deas pixels.
davidcastyalexandra said:
i have the same issue. i dont know what to do. it has some kind of image retention issue. after that i also noticed a lot of deas pixels.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mines seemed to fix itself
aniqpirzada said:
Hello.
Today i noticed that my main screen has a burn in.
I used AMOLED Burn in fix and i can see the message bar from whatsapp and also the bottom screen buttons etc.
Anyone else had this problems?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had this problem for a few days about 2 weeks ago, I could still see AT&T in the top corner. It did look like it was burned in but I knew it wasn't since it's LCD so I didn't worry about it too much. It randomly fixed itself. I wonder what caused it.
I have the same exact problem. And it heals itself but 5 mins of whatsapp use and there it is again. It is so annoying. I m thinking of returning it!
I would suggest to get rid of what's app. That seems to be the common cause for the majority here. Could be what's app is bad app to run on V10
If you dont call this a screen burn then what is it:
http://imgur.com/a/zQWIR
After 3hrs of wave navigation
Grey background to show effect
This won't be too helpful since I can't remember for sure what I was looking at when it happened but...
Earlier today I noticed that my keyboard was showing "in the background" of an app as though it was burned in.
It was definitely strange looking.
I think it was the weather channel app (which had no need for a keyboard popup) yet it almost looked like the app was transparent with the keyboard behind it.
It's definitely not doing it now but it was really weird looking!
Sent from my pretty nifty brand new LG V10
Guys please relax that's just image retention as far as LCDs are the topic. Unless if you stay at the same thing for like 5 hours (this [might] cause a permanent retention i guess).
the only thing that is prone to burn ins are OLED screens. And burn ins are permanent... because they are a burn.
LCDs only retain images because the crystals in their display tends to stay at the same position they are in after a long period of use but this doesn't actually produce damage and doesn't stay permanently. Once the display changes (either turned off or a different thing is displayed) they would eventually return to their normal state and work just fine.
Interesting. I wasn't really "unrelaxed" though... Just never saw it before so I figured I'd share my experience.
Sent from my pretty nifty brand new LG V10
I just noticed a burn-in, or some kind of image retention. I accidentally left my phone on all night while sleeping and the next morning there was a burn in on the top of the screen. It's only noticible when I pull down the notification bar because it's gray. I can only see it in the gray. The whole status bar is burned-in. It has been gradually dissipating. I also noticed a little bit of this when I used Waze for a long road trip a couple weeks ago, but it wasn't as severe of a burn in. At least it is disappearing slowly.
SuhasTheBest said:
I just noticed a burn-in, or some kind of image retention. I accidentally left my phone on all night while sleeping and the next morning there was a burn in on the top of the screen. It's only noticible when I pull down the notification bar because it's gray. I can only see it in the gray. The whole status bar is burned-in. It has been gradually dissipating. I also noticed a little bit of this when I used Waze for a long road trip a couple weeks ago, but it wasn't as severe of a burn in. At least it is disappearing slowly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same happened to me today. Slept through an amber alert that caused my screen to stay on. When i woke up my phone was off and hot to the touch. Switched batteries and noticed after powering on the amber alert was still faintly visible in the backgound. After about 10 minutes of screen use it gradually faded away.
LG V10 From TMobile Image Burn !
My LG V10 Its Haves A Problem When Im Waching Netflix At My V10 I Can See The V10 Google Search Bar Like In The Back Of The Screen Can This Be Fix ??? Help Please And At The Main Screen I Can See Like Logo Of Things Im Not Using ???
rvnlvrz said:
Guys please relax that's just image retention as far as LCDs are the topic. Unless if you stay at the same thing for like 5 hours (this [might] cause a permanent retention i guess).
the only thing that is prone to burn ins are OLED screens. And burn ins are permanent... because they are a burn.
LCDs only retain images because the crystals in their display tends to stay at the same position they are in after a long period of use but this doesn't actually produce damage and doesn't stay permanently. Once the display changes (either turned off or a different thing is displayed) they would eventually return to their normal state and work just fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently officially termed "image persistence". Your post recreates a lot of the language from that article. Yeah, LCDs don't burn-in so this topic seemed rather odd to me. What could start showing up is the "dynamic contrast" done with LED backlights to LCDs burning-in; the fact that I've never heard any reports may mean it is uncommon, but I'm cringing at it happening in the future.
emdroidle said:
Apparently officially termed "image persistence". Your post recreates a lot of the language from that article. Yeah, LCDs don't burn-in so this topic seemed rather odd to me. What could start showing up is the "dynamic contrast" done with LED backlights to LCDs burning-in; the fact that I've never heard any reports may mean it is uncommon, but I'm cringing at it happening in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or image retention. It does go away though. Maybe a bad batch too? I drive from Ohio to Orlando, FL with Google maps on the entire time and bendy had a retention issue. All the ones with the issue also said the screen was hot. Corks that be a factor?
Sent from my LG-H901 using XDA Free mobile app
I have had my V10 since December (from T-Mobile). Initially no problems to report, but the image retention issue has become progressively worse (as I type this, the image of this site is being temporarily "burned in"). my father also got a V10 the same day, but does not report this issue. User activity may be leading to a faster declining lifespan of phone, but both phones have had a drastic increase in overheating since receiving the Marshmallow update, which may also be playing a role in the even greater amounts of image retention (a single game of candy crush leaves a residual image).
I'm 19, so like most millennials, I use my phone constantly which is possibly why I have this issue, but it is unfortunate to think there's a chance my phone is slowly dying from general use.
same issue with my v10 (bought a month back)
i think my culprit is Deer hunter 2016...as its the only game i play& only notice it more once i have played it.. i have also seen that if i keep my phone off during the night.. it usually goes away.. while if my phone is ON (standyby) during the night.. it stays. i didnt turned my phone off for the past 2 nights & the burn is pretty much there as you can see. my phone is an ATT v10 h900 on lollypop.. any suggestion will be appreciated.

Screen Burn-In

My new G5 has the status bar burn in, really bothered has I only have like 1 week with it. Any soulution to this
I'm not sure if I just idn't notice it but after the ZV5 update I am noticing HEAVY HEAVY ghosting/burn-in issues.
same here ...
PedroDaGr8 said:
I'm not sure if I just idn't notice it but after the ZV5 update I am noticing HEAVY HEAVY ghosting/burn-in issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I notice today, it's ghosting is not that much but I can see the lte signal bars and battery icon while using the phone in landscape
I have the G5,and I have backlight bleed along with icon burn in. I called,but the only thing LG would do is fix my phone and it would take a month. I can not do that,I need my phone for work. Why can't I just get a replacement ? From what I've been reading its a fairly common defect with the G5. Any advice on how to deal with them ?
BR7fan said:
I have the G5,and I have backlight bleed along with icon burn in. I called,but the only thing LG would do is fix my phone and it would take a month. I can not do that,I need my phone for work. Why can't I just get a replacement ? From what I've been reading its a fairly common defect with the G5. Any advice on how to deal with them ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My burn-In started today, usually the status bar was Burning, In a couple of hours now it is starting to burn anything that stays a couple of minutes on screen.
Now it has Status bar along with Nav Bar and anything that stays on screen. This is starting to piss me off.
Plus it fades away if I leave the phone intact but has soon has I start using it the problem persists.
What does screen burn mean, please?
AhmedYD said:
What does screen burn mean, please?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Means that after certain time of having an app open or given the situation status bar or Nav bar starts to have ghosting or clear images of something that you haved opened on your phone. You can see this images with a complete grey image if they are soft. If they are burning really bad you can see them from any dark colors that you have on your screen.
There is already the same thread. Maybe try the search function next time:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-g5/help/screen-burn-t3364676
solution is in the thread
lolmensch said:
There is already the same thread. Maybe try the search function next time:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-g5/help/screen-burn-t3364676
solution is in the thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks but already sold my G5 today. Got a Galaxy S7 edge
Had this phone for a year now, had screen replaced two times and ghosting still apears. Now waiting for a replacement with my carrier, as licenced service is trying to replace the screen for the third time. 8 years Htc and now this...

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