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Hi all,
After reading this, especially this part:
"Suggestions for Google:
1. Eliminate the primitive 16-bit display interface and fix the Browser, Gallery and other applications.
2. The White Point is too blue, lower it to D6500, which will improve color accuracy, slow the aging of the Blue OLED, reduce power consumption, and improve battery run time.
3. Improve the factory display calibration to correct the large color and gray-scale tracking errors and the irregular and non-standard display contrast and Gamma.
4. The color saturation of the display is way too high. You can trade this excess color saturation to boost the screen brightness by adjusting the software color calibration matrices. This will also improve the color accuracy of the display.
5. Take full advantage of the OLED display: the ambient light sensor now just controls the screen brightness. You should also use it to control the gamma, color gamut, color saturation, and edge enhancement so that in low ambient light the display delivers beautiful and accurate image and picture quality, but as the ambient light increases slowly turn up these parameters to counter-balance the washed out appearance of the images in bright ambient light. Also add a display Vivid or Pizzazz control because some people prefer punchy images and pictures, while other people do not.
Nexus One Conclusion: The Nexus One Display Looks Like a Prototype
The Nexus One OLED display has many spectacular qualities, but it is also loaded with lots of rough edges, hasty unfinished beta display drivers and Android software including principal applications like the Browser and Gallery, poorly implemented image processing, poor system integration together with sub-standard factory display calibration. It really looks and behaves like a prototype for a very nice future display, not a finished production display for a world class mobile device that Google markets it to be. It will be interesting to see the degree to which existing units will be corrected and improved with software updates."
My toughts are: could it be possible to tweak video drivers, or at least modify gallery and browser apks to achieve a better viewing quality?
Someone give this man a beer I couldn't have said that better myself.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
+1000
Any devs watching this?
Wow...even more improvement possibilities! Modding this phone seems endless!
Yeah, I seriously believe we could improve display performance with some tweaks. I noticed that on the iphones 2g,3g,3gs and 4g, the screen kept changing color and it really did make a difference. Like the 3g screen seemed a bit yellow and 3gs was more natural and they kept on improving.
I would like to hear some dev's opinion because I think it's pretty hard to modify video drivers, as we are seeing in the "porting video drivers" thread...so I'm not too optimist...but let's see what happens
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
As a pro video calibrator I would LOVE to have an app that allows me to change the RGB levels so I can set the grayscale.
I will watch this thread with great interest. Here is to hope.
I think the start is with the rendering tweaks that is being used in cm6. Where that is, I have no clue on the technical specifications..... Sorry.
How many of the issues are hardware related though? They're certainly not going to be updating those.
I'm pretty sure I read that article a few months ago, Google appear to be quite reluctant to do anything specific to the N1 and prefer to just keep trucking along with the generic AOSP development. If anything that can be done is going to happen, it'll be due to the clever developers on this and other forums.
The N1 display looks like it's permanently in store-presentation mode, very sharp and contrasty, unfortunately it's not very realistic. If changes can be made in software to improve things, that'd be great, but I doubt it'll be Google doing it.
grayscale
Would it be possible to have a setting to make the entire display grayscale instead of color? If so, would this then allow us to punch up the brightness past it's default levels? Battery life is not my concern. Seeing my screen in the bright sun is though
Alright, I checked it out using the patch that enables nightvision mode in later CM builds, a calibration profile can most likely be done. I'll get my colorimeter tomorrow and use changing linear transformations to turn one of the modes into a calibrated profile. It's up to Cyanogen whether or not it should be added "officially," but I can just overwrite salmon or something and post an update.zip in the meantime if I can get it to work.
Lowering the contrast (and calibrating for that matter) will lower the total colors that can be rendered, so you'd have to keep that in mind. I'm not sure if the screen is 16 bit minimum (at the lowest brightness and thus the more detail the brighter it is) or 16 bit maximum (at highest brightness) as darkening the "backlight" would just narrow the gamut on the device, anyone know? The gamut may already be too narrow to justify a LUT, but I'll see soon.
From what I know, the system is capable of 24bit color, but only 16 bit native. You see, OLED displays have really high refresh rates, so they show the color above and below the target in the right ratios to trick the eye. I don't think the system does these calculations when it expects the screen to move, too high a load, and that's why tapping on the screen in the browser changes colors. This is probably just the application using the wrong settings with regards to it.
The pentile matrix can show fonts really nicely if it has the right font hinting. I've heard that it doesn't, however. I'm not sure where you'd find the best place to go about that, but it's probably out of the kernel and thus outside of my knowledge..
Edit: heavily edited for cleanliness and new knowledge.
Great contribution Storm...do you think we can correct issues noticed in FIGURE 1 (nexus vs iphone comparison) ? It would be AWESOME ...
Maybe should I open a similar thread on cyanogenmod?
knightnz said:
How many of the issues are hardware related though? They're certainly not going to be updating those.
I'm pretty sure I read that article a few months ago, Google appear to be quite reluctant to do anything specific to the N1 and prefer to just keep trucking along with the generic AOSP development. If anything that can be done is going to happen, it'll be due to the clever developers on this and other forums.
The N1 display looks like it's permanently in store-presentation mode, very sharp and contrasty, unfortunately it's not very realistic. If changes can be made in software to improve things, that'd be great, but I doubt it'll be Google doing it.
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Click to collapse
we all doubt it...that's why we're unlocking FM radio and add 720p recording...N1 could really have been the iphone killer if Google did the job ENTIRELY...but really seems that N1 is an unfinished prototype, combine this with huge errors (no marketing and online-only distribution) and you have a partial failure, I know it's sad to say...
Still love my N1!
Well, it looks like the calibration profile is going to be [1, .98, .69] [R,G,B] or thereabouts. Can anyone test the temperature with their own calibrator? I'm getting 9300K when we want 6500K, the website noted earlier got 8900K. I'd like a few more test results but I can work with just my own.
I'm going to edit the files and try it out on my phone here soon enough. I can, if I can modify by-pixel colors, calibrate it to a 2.2 gamma, which would lower battery usage and the overly contrasty and cartoony colors significantly. It'll take a while though if it's even possible.
Anyone know any good apps that just show a specified RGB value across most or all the screen?
Edit: Alright, there are two calibration profiles, one for the lowest brightness, one for the highest. The values I'm getting (for the code junkies) are [1, green, .82] for bright screens, and [1, green, .80] for dark screens. The problem is that the level of green is pretty subjective. I can't measure it without doing extensive calculations, but comparing it to my calibrated monitor, .98 or .99 seems good. 1.00 should be ok, as .98 will add banding.
I'll upload the libsurfaceflinger.so with the modified profile for people to test in another thread (to be linked once I make it here)
storm99999 said:
Well, it looks like the calibration profile is going to be [1, .98, .69] [R,G,B] or thereabouts. Can anyone test the temperature with their own calibrator? I'm getting 9300K when we want 6500K, the website noted earlier got 8900K. I'd like a few more test results but I can work with just my own.
I'm going to edit the files and try it out on my phone here soon enough. I can, if I can modify by-pixel colors, calibrate it to a 2.2 gamma, which would lower battery usage and the overly contrasty and cartoony colors significantly. It'll take a while though if it's even possible.
Anyone know any good apps that just show a specified RGB value across most or all the screen?
Edit: Alright, there are two calibration profiles, one for the lowest brightness, one for the highest. The values I'm getting (for the code junkies) are [1, green, .82] for bright screens, and [1, green, .80] for dark screens. The problem is that the level of green is pretty subjective. I can't measure it without doing extensive calculations, but comparing it to my calibrated monitor, .98 or .99 seems good. 1.00 should be ok, as .98 will add banding.
I'll upload the libsurfaceflinger.so with the modified profile for people to test in another thread (to be linked once I make it here)
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This is awesome! I will certainly test tonight with my X-rite i1 Pro meter. Just curious, where are you getting the IRE images from?
wrinklefree said:
This is awesome! I will certainly test tonight with my X-rite i1 Pro meter. Just curious, where are you getting the IRE images from?
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As of now, I don't have IRE images. I just calibrated the white point, and even then, kinda inprecisely. Your data and inputs are valued, but I can't do anything more than a linear equation on the pixels. Currently, I keep red as it is, multiply green by .98, and multiply blue by .82 . It's not accurate, but it's close, and it uses less power. The gamma is still skewed to hell though.
Please look at this post, maybe this has something to do with anything relevant to the ideas presented in this post?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=745248
Seems like a good idea
ywindlass said:
Please look at this post, maybe this has something to do with anything relevant to the ideas presented in this post?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=745248
Seems like a good idea
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Click to collapse
Of course it's relevant, this thread gave me the idea for that. A few posts up is me debating whether or not it would work.
Just wondering if anyone else noticed yet...
Before the new update you could switch power modes and notice a major decrease in image quality in power savings mode, then notice it get a lot better once switched to balance mode or normal...
Well with the new update it seems to be stuck in the poor image quality mode that it gave before while in power savings mode. Also switching modes has no effect at all on image quality.
You can only get good colors now with super IPS mode turned on.
Maybe it is just your TFP, I had no such issue before or after the update.
Maybe you just didnt notice... Before the update it clearly adjusted brightness and contrast of the screen when in power saving mode...
It no longer does this and seems to be stuck with low contrast and washed out colors. I had no problems before the update because I would use it on balanced mode which let the colors out of the bag. But now with the new update every mode looks washed out.
I noticed that too. I don't know if it is the lower or higher quality, but it doesn't matter that much. All I care about is this stupid dead/stuck pixel.
I think it did adjust brightness but I am not sure it adjusted "quality". And not everyone is going to notice or see a difference because if some people always use auto-brightness then I don't think their screens every changed when they switched power modes (I don't recall my friend's changing).
So while I do think you might be correct that the new update has stopped the screen from changing brightness when you switch between power modes, I am not at all sure about the quality.
I wonder if we can assign screen brightness and quality to the power settings somewhere now? (or could before?)
I remember hearing months ago that Nvidia had this new idea to save battery life with the whole dynamic contrast and brightness thing.
But after using the device as an ereader for a while, the constant flickering was more than I could bare.
I'm glad its gone, now I can read in peace. I didn't notice any change in quality. Color temp perhaps...
No this is not what im talking about, It would change the image quality... not just the brightness...
Making images more detailed and colors more vivid. But its gone now, strange and kinda of sucky...
Any TFP users that knows what im talking about please chime in.
Update:
It seems that the tegra 3 auto image quality is working (not in the modes but according to what your viewing) but I really wish they would just take it out all together..
If you have a dark colored wallpaper your colors will seem washed out because its adjusting the brightness, contrast and colors to be weaker.
If you have a white bright wallpaper your colors will be more vivid, sharper and screen brighter...
This is why the homescreen may appear washed out to some, and others dont see it. It all depends on what colors your viewing.
jzen said:
Just wondering if anyone else noticed yet...
Before the new update you could switch power modes and notice a major decrease in image quality in power savings mode, then notice it get a lot better once switched to balance mode or normal...
Well with the new update it seems to be stuck in the poor image quality mode that it gave before while in power savings mode. Also switching modes has no effect at all on image quality.
You can only get good colors now with super IPS mode turned on.
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Click to collapse
I see what you mean.i just updated for the very first time.Its not poor image quality but when i hit my buttons it doesn't do anything screen stays the same.
Are you able to compare it with another device? Try to have the same icon on your home screen on each device. For me the TFP is noticeable different (even with a white wallpaper). I compared opera,market and google music icons, they seem to have less color and appear washed out on the TFP.
I am glad you noticed what I am talking about with the modes.
Screen brightness adgusts on mine even with auto brightness on which is expected to help battery life, but I see no change in quality of images on mine.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
If you didnt notice the modes adjusting this (colors and brightness) before then you may not know what I am talking about. Yes even with auto-brightness off it will adjust brightness but this is not what I am talking about.
Before the update it most defiantly changed the brightness and image quality in low power mode. But not it does not and appears to be stuck in bad image quality mode, If you did not notice this before the update then you wont be able to notice the poor image quality unless you compare it to another android device.
Notice how the colors are off and appear washed out in comparison.
Not sure if I agree. I spent quite a bit of time examining the picture quality prior to the update. I do not see any significant difference in picture quality now.
I have a pretty good eye for picture quality (I was part of a team who set the picture quality for KURO televisions).
I am very pleased with the picture performance of the Prime. What I would love to see is local dimming......
Walkamo
Don't notice a difference. Seems about the same quality to me.
Sent from my Galaxy S2
jzen said:
No this is not what im talking about, It would change the image quality... not just the brightness...
Making images more detailed and colors more vivid. But its gone now, strange and kinda of sucky...
Any TFP users that knows what im talking about please chime in.
Update:
It seems that the tegra 3 auto image quality is working (not in the modes but according to what your viewing) but I really wish they would just take it out all together..
If you have a dark colored wallpaper your colors will seem washed out because its adjusting the brightness, contrast and colors to be weaker.
If you have a white bright wallpaper your colors will be more vivid, sharper and screen brighter...
This is why the homescreen may appear washed out to some, and others dont see it. It all depends on what colors your viewing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bigaj said:
I see what you mean.i just updated for the very first time.Its not poor image quality but when i hit my buttons it doesn't do anything screen stays the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think he is finally on to something for once..lol. He is correct in the sense that the major change in contrast from balanced or normal mode to power savings is not apparent anymore. I described this change in contrast and detail in the first week Prime was received. Its not in permanent poor image quality though or power savings look. Before you could hit power savings mode and instantly see the screen contrast change, it wouldn't look as detailed. at first it would look like the brightness dropped a lil but its actually the contrast being adjusted. the icons would have a cartoonish look to them. then once you press balanced or normal mode it would instant switch back. NOW, there seems to be no change at all. like its stuck in either balanced or normal mode color scheme. I just switched various wallpapers, light and dark and colorful ones. its all the same. But there is no loss in quality though of pictures. we just don't see the change anymore immediately. of course when hitting super ips+ mode the colors and screen brightness gonna jump up. it's from the dramatic increase in screen brightness. which for me is too bright, especially at night time.
Good find though Jzen. I didn't notice until you made this thread. as I never use powersavings mode. I only noticed the change in the beginning because it was so prevalant. now the switch isn't anymore. Maybe like he said Tegra3 is doing it all automatically. I can't get it to look like the powersavings mode look like before though. Display still looks as great as it did before. just now the contrast doesn't immediately drop when putting it in powersavings mode. it is seeming like battery life has increased even more though somehow. if this is related to situation mentioned, then its a good thing as there's no loss in quality or contrast. Super ips+ mode is a battery drainer though. keep switching it on and off and you'll see battery life drop in multiple numbers. not just gradually one by one. lol.
---------- Post added at 03:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 AM ----------
jzen said:
If you didnt notice the modes adjusting this (colors and brightness) before then you may not know what I am talking about. Yes even with auto-brightness off it will adjust brightness but this is not what I am talking about.
Before the update it most defiantly changed the brightness and image quality in low power mode. But not it does not and appears to be stuck in bad image quality mode, If you did not notice this before the update then you wont be able to notice the poor image quality unless you compare it to another android device.
Notice how the colors are off and appear washed out in comparison.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would notice as I was the first one to mention the drop in contrast weeks ago in various threads and my Different Performance modes thread. it is not stuck in poor image quality mode. you just thinkn that because you don't see the immediate switch and drop in contrast when going into powersavibgs mode. cutting on super ips+ will look dramatic no matter what before or after update so that can't really been used. you are only partially correct in your find. and that is there is no drop on contrast anymore. To me it seems as if its stuck in the balanced or normal mode look from before. cause before when contrast dropped in powersavings, all the icons would look funny and catoonish looking. now it just looks normal no matter what mode you in or wall paper you using.
Walkamo said:
Not sure if I agree. I spent quite a bit of time examining the picture quality prior to the update. I do not see any significant difference in picture quality now.
I have a pretty good eye for picture quality (I was part of a team who set the picture quality for KURO televisions).
I am very pleased with the picture performance of the Prime. What I would love to see is local dimming......
Walkamo
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Click to collapse
The display and picture quality is still great.
ravizzle said:
Don't notice a difference. Seems about the same quality to me.
Sent from my Galaxy S2
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corrrect but if people never switched the modes before then it'll be hard for them to notice there is no longer a drop in contrast when going into powersavings mode. its all looks great now what mode you in. maybe it does it very slowly and gradually in powerssvings mode so the change won't be so noticeable like before. either way Best Display by far of any tablet.
This is definitely not true for me. It is correct that the switching feature is gone, but it is not stuck in low quality mode. my screen looks as awesome as before. maybe you were in powersaving mode before updating and this is another updater bug?
Yes even with auto-brightness off it will adjust brightness but this is not what I am talking about.
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Click to collapse
Sorry if i jump in at this point with wrong subject, but - so this is a known bug on the prime? I already wondered about the automatically de- and reincreasing brightness while scrolling websites even if auto-brightness is turned off...
thomascook said:
Sorry if i jump in at this point with wrong subject, but - so this is a known bug on the prime? I already wondered about the automatically de- and reincreasing brightness while scrolling websites even if auto-brightness is turned off...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it is not a bug it is a feature seriously this is really intended, but maybe a bit buggy...
I notice my sig's image looks very blurry in the browser on the Prime than from the browser on my desktop PC.
My PC res is 1920x1080, with the prime having a lower res shouldn't the sig look better only bigger?
I ran the firmware update almost immediately after using my prime for the first time and connecting to my wifi. Didn't even think to look at images through it yet.
OT: I thought the clouds on the background image move. Perhaps I have been wrong from loving all the videos of this online. Will there ever bee a desktop background to have such a feat?
Ok this is my post from few days. So am not crazy? You noticed the same thing?
got a question about the screen. Some times I can sense and see that despite of auto brightness off that the screen adjusts its brightness by itself. It is a little change but my sharp eyes can see this... Do you have a similar thing? it looks like prime adjust the contrast / brightness by it self even if autobrightness mode is off. it happenes while watching youtube, browsing www or playing. it happenes like this on all 3 performance modes but it is more aggresive on battery mode (power saving mode)
Do you notice the similar thing?
i just recieved another update for my prime. The "feature" of brightness instability while scolling seem to be fixed, but yes - after using the power save mode and changing the background image i noticed a really poor color/compression in all backgrounds i set, doesnt matter which one. Restart and changing the modes to high performance or balanced doesnt help, same with setting up a live wallpaper for a while..
Hey, to shoot the question right away; is there a way to properly calibrate your mobile phone screen?
I've searched the forums and googled and haven't found anything I was looking for.
Preferably being able to load color profiles like sRGB or Adobe RGB directly.
I'm not reffering to simple RGB settings or Gamma tweaking.
The reason I'm asking is that I work in 16 bit float mostly and got a perfectly calibrated IPS NEC nicely working with a 12bit LUT and also 2 calibrated TN panel screens.
The final image goes to 8bit PNGs and JPGs with sRGB embedded.
Now the difference between the final outcome on the IPS screen and the TN ones and the one displayed on 4 different android mobile phones I got available for testing is extremely big. So big, that just everything is off.
I thought that embedding color profiles might cause this but using other common profiles or none at all still were extremely off.
I'd like to point out that the image is not necessarily bad, it's just wrong knowing how the end result looks on perfectly calibrated monitors at home or at work.
I'm just surprised that there is close to no information available on how to properly view imagery with embedded profiles considering that the internet is full of fancy mobile phone screen tests and benchmarks nitpicking every single micro millimeter on a screen light years away from normal use conditions.
(At least they don't take into account that probably 60-80% of the images average users view on their mobiles are crappily compressed Facebook .jpgs and the rest photographs shot on mobile cameras..but that's not what the thread is about.)
Is there really no way to counter factory presets?
It's like with TVs on factory or even worse shop presets with shiny oversaturated colors and crushed contrasts, but on TVs you got the chance to turn the crap off at last.
Any idea or guidance would be highly appreciated.
Bump.
I need to calibrate my phone's screen color too, I know I can't expect miracle from the screen of my Xperia Mini, but at least I want to have more natural colors on the screen, Bravia Engine doesn't help at all in color quality, it only increases the sharpness, contrast, and saturation, no better color reproduction at all.
I have SE Hazel, an SE proprietary OS powered phone (DB3350v2), with dispdriver.dat tweaking (only editing the strings for RGB gamma settings inside it), I can make it reproduces far better and more natural colors than my Xperia Mini.
I don't want to make my Xperia Mini screen has the same color reproduction as a calibrated IPS panel, I only want, at least it can reproduces more natural colors than it does now, I also know that even the same phone model don't always have exactly the same screen color reproduction.
From my searches so far, colour management seems to be completely missing in Android.
I'm a photographer and would like this too. I want to use my tablet to review photos, but the colour is way off.
flar2 said:
From my searches so far, colour management seems to be completely missing in Android.
I'm a photographer and would like this too. I want to use my tablet to review photos, but the colour is way off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my phone display produces too strong blue and red, less green, it makes most photos look far from natural.
I will openly admit that as a fan of AMOLED displays, I love the "oversaturated" colors and "better than life" images they facilitate. Of course there are people who prefer LCDs and people who are color-accuracy purists, and I respect their differing preferences. With that said, I want to offer some comments about the Galaxy Note 7's display, and see if other people are having the same thoughts. For reference, mine arrived on Tuesday of this week so I've had it for roughly two days now.
The sAMOLED panel on the phone, or at least the phone I have, is a horrid disappointment. The first thing I do when getting a new Samsung phone (which for various reasons is basically every time a new one releases) is turn the Display Mode to "AMOLED Cinema". Until the Note 7, it had been the most intense, color saturated setting option. With the Note 7, it looks awful. The colors are washed out and "dull" to the point where I almost wondered if there is a calibration issue. Oddly, the Automatic mode seems to be the only way to get colors remotely saturated to the point of which I prefer.
Along with the Note 7, I am currently using a Nexus 6P. The display on the 6P is, for my personal preferences, far better than that on the Note 7. I have the same wallpaper on both, the same icon set up, and yet the 6P's colors look way more intense.
Has anyone else noticed this? In particular, people who have owned the Galaxy S7 Edge, the Galaxy Note 5, and the Galaxy S6 Edge+? Could it be that my device has a problem with the panel?
I used the S7 Edge for about 4 months and at no point did it have the color "problems" that I am experiencing with the Note 7. Mind you the smaller, standard Galaxy S7 looked more vibrant, but this was attributed to the display being that much smaller.
Yes, I get the idea that Samsung is trying to make the displays more color accurate and whatnot, but in all honesty, should the ultimate goal be to make them as close to LCD color calibration as possible? Is that what people would want?
If this is where Samsung is going with future products, I must admit I'm not happy at all. Part of the reason I like the Galaxy series has always been their super saturated situation. The Note 7 is now the first product where I have, from the very first minutes with the phone, been unhappy with the display.
Any thoughts?
TokyoGuy said:
I will openly admit that as a fan of AMOLED displays, I love the "oversaturated" colors and "better than life" images they facilitate. Of course there are people who prefer LCDs and people who are color-accuracy purists, and I respect their differing preferences. With that said, I want to offer some comments about the Galaxy Note 7's display, and see if other people are having the same thoughts. For reference, mine arrived on Tuesday of this week so I've had it for roughly two days now.
The sAMOLED panel on the phone, or at least the phone I have, is a horrid disappointment. The first thing I do when getting a new Samsung phone (which for various reasons is basically every time a new one releases) is turn the Display Mode to "AMOLED Cinema". Until the Note 7, it had been the most intense, color saturated setting option. With the Note 7, it looks awful. The colors are washed out and "dull" to the point where I almost wondered if there is a calibration issue. Oddly, the Automatic mode seems to be the only way to get colors remotely saturated to the point of which I prefer.
Along with the Note 7, I am currently using a Nexus 6P. The display on the 6P is, for my personal preferences, far better than that on the Note 7. I have the same wallpaper on both, the same icon set up, and yet the 6P's colors look way more intense.
Has anyone else noticed this? In particular, people who have owned the Galaxy S7 Edge, the Galaxy Note 5, and the Galaxy S6 Edge+? Could it be that my device has a problem with the panel?
I used the S7 Edge for about 4 months and at no point did it have the color "problems" that I am experiencing with the Note 7. Mind you the smaller, standard Galaxy S7 looked more vibrant, but this was attributed to the display being that much smaller.
Yes, I get the idea that Samsung is trying to make the displays more color accurate and whatnot, but in all honesty, should the ultimate goal be to make them as close to LCD color calibration as possible? Is that what people would want?
If this is where Samsung is going with future products, I must admit I'm not happy at all. Part of the reason I like the Galaxy series has always been their super saturated situation. The Note 7 is now the first product where I have, from the very first minutes with the phone, been unhappy with the display.
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also heard about this lowered saturation on a YouTube review video recently, so it looks like Samsung has responded to the stupid complaints about the over saturation. I am on your side here as I love the over saturation, it is fundamentally why I go for Samsung phones overall. Those that complain are too dumb or too lazy to go and change the levels in settings. So Samsung has helped quell the moaners.
I am waiting for mine to arrive on Tuesday and I will report back here. I hope it isn't too noticeable as I will be bitterly disappointed.
.
I am in the 'other' camp and much prefer a more natural picture, close to SRGB. Even then I use SCREEN BALANCE (app store) to very slightly change screen tint to a more blue'ish hue to get white whites.
My gf has a 3 series samsung and the colours are imho truly awful with their over emphasised vibrancy.
drummerman said:
I am in the 'other' camp and much prefer a more natural picture, close to SRGB. Even then I use SCREEN BALANCE (app store) to very slightly change screen tint to a more blue'ish hue to get white whites.
My gf has a 3 series samsung and the colours are imho truly awful with their over emphasised vibrancy.
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I think the S3 is not the best phone to compare it to. Back then the displays were really off balance. But I respect your preference for a more natural look but surely we need the options for either. Can the SCREEN BALANCE app you mentioned be used to saturate the colours at all? And does it interfere with the screen overlay issue when setting permissions for other apps?
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apprentice said:
I also heard about this lowered saturation on a YouTube review video recently, so it looks like Samsung has responded to the stupid complaints about the over saturation. I am on your side here as I love the over saturation, it is fundamentally why I go for Samsung phones overall. Those that complain are too dumb or too lazy to go and change the levels in settings. So Samsung has helped quell the moaners.
I am waiting for mine to arrive on Tuesday and I will report back here. I hope it isn't too noticeable as I will be bitterly disappointed.
.
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I suspect you will be disappointed. I am literally, at this point, going back to the Nexus 6P constantly for web browsing and YouTube.
You are insane. Yes, Samsung changed the screen modes for the BETTER.
Basic = sRGB = most consumer content.
Photo = Adobe RGB = pro photos
Cinema = DCI-P3 = film making standard
Adaptive = oversaturated, cold white point that some people like yourself prefer.
Cinema used to be the oversaturated setting. Now it is adaptive display. If that isn't saturated enough for you, get your eyes checked dude. Beyond that point, you are absllutely making everything completely unrealistic. I don't like "washed out" aka accurate colors either, but I don't like colors that destroy the image. The 6P out of the box is too saturated. I have to tone that down slightly to match the Cinema mode from Samsung.
And people... STOP SAYING LCDS ARE FOR COLOR ELITISTS AND OLED IS OVERSATURATED. That is a crock of ****. The only reason Samsung made their first OLEDs oversaturated were to get people's attention. When using a calibrated setting, OLED is superior to LCD in EVERY WAY. Infinite contrast is A HUGE factor for image quality. LCDs suck. Period. The only advantage they have is brightness in TVs, which could change as tech matures (but Samsung has brighter OLED phone panels than any LCD competitor), and producing a deeper red color with quantum dot. That's it.
This is absolutely the best phone display ever made. Period.
Seems like people can find something to complain about. Now if someone has a truly faulty display, then that is reasonable to gripe about. But I can say my N7 has BY FAR the best display of any mobile device I have ever owned (Owned note's for 4 years now). This display is light years better than what my N4 has. The whites are far whiter, the colors are far better. It is saturated perfectly (I am using adaptive) and the brightness is awesome. The N7's display has already been shown to be by far the best display on any mobile device to date, and by a fairly wide margin in many of the different testing criteria. IDK what to say to someone who actually doesn't like the N7's display. Except maybe you have a faulty display. Each to their own, but it is pretty clear cut after extensive testing by displaymate (I think that's the site) that the N7 has the worlds best smartphone display. Second best was the S7 edge. I will say that I am not overly fond of the curved edges, but that would be my only gripe and has nothing to do with the actual display/brightness/colors/sharpness etc.
apprentice said:
I also heard about this lowered saturation on a YouTube review video recently, so it looks like Samsung has responded to the stupid complaints about the over saturation. I am on your side here as I love the over saturation, it is fundamentally why I go for Samsung phones overall. Those that complain are too dumb or too lazy to go and change the levels in settings. So Samsung has helped quell the moaners.
I am waiting for mine to arrive on Tuesday and I will report back here. I hope it isn't too noticeable as I will be bitterly disappointed.
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I noticed this the other day when comparing to my note 4 watching 4k videos. Videos were a little washed out and it didn't pop on my note 7. Details and contrast were missing. So I start looking in to the settings and in the Advanced features I find "Video enhancer" all the way on the bottom. I saw that it was ON and it makes the sample image brighter. OFF caused it to get darker. So I decided to turn it off and watched the same 4k video. Now my note 7 is exactly like my note 4. Colors popped, more contrast, more details. I assume because turning it off did not allow darker colors to get brighter and blended less with lighter colors of the same shade? Anyway, try it out yourself when you get your phone. I am leaving this setting off.
Nitemare3219 said:
You are insane. Yes, Samsung changed the screen modes for the BETTER.
Basic = sRGB = most consumer content.
Photo = Adobe RGB = pro photos
Cinema = DCI-P3 = film making standard
Adaptive = oversaturated, cold white point that some people like yourself prefer.
Cinema used to be the oversaturated setting. Now it is adaptive display. If that isn't saturated enough for you, get your eyes checked dude. Beyond that point, you are absllutely making everything completely unrealistic. I don't like "washed out" aka accurate colors either, but I don't like colors that destroy the image. The 6P out of the box is too saturated. I have to tone that down slightly to match the Cinema mode from Samsung.
And people... STOP SAYING LCDS ARE FOR COLOR ELITISTS AND OLED IS OVERSATURATED. That is a crock of ****. The only reason Samsung made their first OLEDs oversaturated were to get people's attention. When using a calibrated setting, OLED is superior to LCD in EVERY WAY. Infinite contrast is A HUGE factor for image quality. LCDs suck. Period. The only advantage they have is brightness in TVs, which could change as tech matures (but Samsung has brighter OLED phone panels than any LCD competitor), and producing a deeper red color with quantum dot. That's it.
This is absolutely the best phone display ever made. Period.
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Click to collapse
I agree about it being the best display. I absolutely have ZERO complaints about the colors. I recently upgraded from the Galaxy S5, and lets just say... the difference is mind-blowing. However, this boils down to preference, and there's nothing wrong with the OP's wish for more saturation, as that is just what he prefers. However, I find the most saturation comes with Adaptive Display also, while Cinema Mode seems a tad more dull. The difference in modes is hardly even noticeable though. To the OP: Just roll with adaptive, my friend.
Nitemare3219 said:
You are insane. Yes, Samsung changed the screen modes for the BETTER.
Basic = sRGB = most consumer content.
Photo = Adobe RGB = pro photos
Cinema = DCI-P3 = film making standard
Adaptive = oversaturated, cold white point that some people like yourself prefer.
Cinema used to be the oversaturated setting. Now it is adaptive display. If that isn't saturated enough for you, get your eyes checked dude. Beyond that point, you are absllutely making everything completely unrealistic. I don't like "washed out" aka accurate colors either, but I don't like colors that destroy the image. The 6P out of the box is too saturated. I have to tone that down slightly to match the Cinema mode from Samsung.
And people... STOP SAYING LCDS ARE FOR COLOR ELITISTS AND OLED IS OVERSATURATED. That is a crock of ****. The only reason Samsung made their first OLEDs oversaturated were to get people's attention. When using a calibrated setting, OLED is superior to LCD in EVERY WAY. Infinite contrast is A HUGE factor for image quality. LCDs suck. Period. The only advantage they have is brightness in TVs, which could change as tech matures (but Samsung has brighter OLED phone panels than any LCD competitor), and producing a deeper red color with quantum dot. That's it.
This is absolutely the best phone display ever made. Period.
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Click to collapse
Well, I don't know if "insane" is the proper word though. People have different preferences. I'd be willing to bet that a wide segment of the general population would also agree with me, and probably associate AMOLED with those exact "over the top" colors as some allege. Indeed it comes down to personal preference. Like how for some they simply can't use a point-and-shoot camera because the images are "terrible" but for the masses they would never notice most of the minutia of detail differences between a DSLR and point-and-shoot upon a quick glance.
Indeed I keep going back to the 6P now because the colors are so much more saturated. Which is ironic because when it launched last year IIRC, I felt it was too "subdued".
As for the generalization, I think it's become that way because many of the LCD-enthusiasts use that as their mantra. It's better because of X,Y,Z, basically the points you raised above. Perhaps when AMOLED becomes more common people will start to be more aware of the details and whatnot.
teegunn said:
Seems like people can find something to complain about. Now if someone has a truly faulty display, then that is reasonable to gripe about. But I can say my N7 has BY FAR the best display of any mobile device I have ever owned (Owned note's for 4 years now). This display is light years better than what my N4 has. The whites are far whiter, the colors are far better. It is saturated perfectly (I am using adaptive) and the brightness is awesome. The N7's display has already been shown to be by far the best display on any mobile device to date, and by a fairly wide margin in many of the different testing criteria. IDK what to say to someone who actually doesn't like the N7's display. Except maybe you have a faulty display. Each to their own, but it is pretty clear cut after extensive testing by displaymate (I think that's the site) that the N7 has the worlds best smartphone display. Second best was the S7 edge. I will say that I am not overly fond of the curved edges, but that would be my only gripe and has nothing to do with the actual display/brightness/colors/sharpness etc.
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For me at least, the display saturation has been one of the primary reasons I will come back to Samsung. For example I loved the LG V10 last year but ended up getting rid of it in favor of another Galaxy S6 Edge+ simply because of the color situation.
I don't think the display on mine is faulty, just that I'm not so happy with the changes Samsung has made to its display setting profiles. As for the Display Mate issue, I've heard about it for a relative while now, but at least from my personal preferences it's a strike against the phone. It would be interesting to see what a large segment of Note 7 users feel about the display, though I'm willing to bet that (1) 99% don't even know you can change the display settings, and (2) the phone is already set to Adaptive thus people won't even be aware to begin with.
Just as a side note, I found the Sony Xperia X to have a stunning display in terms of color saturation. They have calibrated it almost to the point of being an "old school" sAMOLED.
teegunn said:
Seems like people can find something to complain about. Now if someone has a truly faulty display, then that is reasonable to gripe about. But I can say my N7 has BY FAR the best display of any mobile device I have ever owned (Owned note's for 4 years now). This display is light years better than what my N4 has. The whites are far whiter, the colors are far better. It is saturated perfectly (I am using adaptive) and the brightness is awesome. The N7's display has already been shown to be by far the best display on any mobile device to date, and by a fairly wide margin in many of the different testing criteria. IDK what to say to someone who actually doesn't like the N7's display. Except maybe you have a faulty display. Each to their own, but it is pretty clear cut after extensive testing by displaymate (I think that's the site) that the N7 has the worlds best smartphone display. Second best was the S7 edge. I will say that I am not overly fond of the curved edges, but that would be my only gripe and has nothing to do with the actual display/brightness/colors/sharpness etc.
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I understand what you are saying. I do not disagree with you that the display has been praised highly by the likes of Display Mate, I don't even dispute that this is the best display ever on any phone. I welcome the better whites and brightness and all that you point out and I also despair at some of the negativity posted on XDA about the Note 7 in general.
But I can't help the fact that I love over saturated colours on a phone (not necessarily for photo's and videos but certainly the UI) and up until now this has been a predominant feature of AMOLED. What I am complaining about is that the option to have a natural look or a vivid look that has always been a built into the settings for the display are no longer adequate. From what I gather, the CINEMA mode which was always the most vivid, makes little difference now. How hard would it be to allow users more control over saturation? The issue therefore is not with the display, but the software settings.
If as you say the ADAPTIVE mode is sufficient then I will be happy with that. Until I get my phone I won't know for sure.
apprentice said:
I think the S3 is not the best phone to compare it to. Back then the displays were really off balance. But I respect your preference for a more natural look but surely we need the options for either. Can the SCREEN BALANCE app you mentioned be used to saturate the colours at all? And does it interfere with the screen overlay issue when setting permissions for other apps?
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I guess you could. Why not try it?
Yes it works by way of screen overlays. Certain application, like my mobile banking app require SB to be switched off. No biggie.
It may be of interest to you that NOUGAT has built in colour sliders and white balance adjustments which work at root level. Well at least the development version had it. Whether this makes it into the final version is another question. I can imagine that some manufacturers which have spent some effort to get their displays calibrated as close as poss to approved standards may object to see their work compromised that way.
We have to see.
I think nougat has been rolled out on Nexus so may be worth looking there too.
apprentice said:
I understand what you are saying. I do not disagree with you that the display has been praised highly by the likes of Display Mate, I don't even dispute that this is the best display ever on any phone. I welcome the better whites and brightness and all that you point out and I also despair at some of the negativity posted on XDA about the Note 7 in general.
But I can't help the fact that I love over saturated colours on a phone (not necessarily for photo's and videos but certainly the UI) and up until now this has been a predominant feature of AMOLED. What I am complaining about is that the option to have a natural look or a vivid look that has always been a built into the settings for the display are no longer adequate. From what I gather, the CINEMA mode which was always the most vivid, makes little difference now. How hard would it be to allow users more control over saturation? The issue therefore is not with the display, but the software settings.
If as you say the ADAPTIVE mode is sufficient then I will be happy with that. Until I get my phone I won't know for sure.
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An excellent point: why doesn't Samsung allow manual tinkering of the color saturation? Why not add a "Custom" mode? It has one for the music equalizer for example.
Rival products such as Asus hardware (though the Zenfone 3 crashed every time I tried) and even the BlackBerry Priv have manual color saturation sliders. If Samsung is so interested in changing the settings to inevitably upset any number of people, why not also have an option to tailor the display to the user's liking?
Nitemare3219 said:
Basic = sRGB = most consumer content.
Photo = Adobe RGB = pro photos
Cinema = DCI-P3 = film making standard
Adaptive = oversaturated, cold white point that some people like yourself prefer.
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Click to collapse
In theory you are correct about that but if you put maybe 5 note 7's side by side and set them all with the same color mode. probably 4 out of the 5 devices will have different color temperatures and saturation.
EarlZ said:
In theory you are correct about that but if you put maybe 5 note 7's side by side and set them all with the same color mode. probably 4 out of the 5 devices will have different color temperatures and saturation.
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Yes, there is a margin of difference in each screen - no calibration setting is likely to produce the same result in a different screen. But unless Display Mate received a cherry picked device, or got extremely lucky, their testing shows these color modes are very accurate.
---------- Post added at 11:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 AM ----------
TokyoGuy said:
An excellent point: why doesn't Samsung allow manual tinkering of the color saturation? Why not add a "Custom" mode? It has one for the music equalizer for example.
Rival products such as Asus hardware (though the Zenfone 3 crashed every time I tried) and even the BlackBerry Priv have manual color saturation sliders. If Samsung is so interested in changing the settings to inevitably upset any number of people, why not also have an option to tailor the display to the user's liking?
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That is a great point and something that really should have been incorporated. OEMs are hesitant to allow users to customize things, which is stupid... Samsung wants locked bootloaders. Apple locks damn near everything down. I think the reasoning behind this is because most people don't have a damn clue what they're doing, and it would lead to devices with really bad configurations either by accident or by ignorance. The owner would think something is wrong with their device, other people would see this and think poorly of that OEM, there'd be improper repair/warranty claims attempted, etc.
TokyoGuy said:
Any thoughts?
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One. You're pitting your subjective preferences against a PhD holding expert that tested the display using a battery of standardized tests using sophisticated equipment.
Absolute Color Accuracy for Each of the Screen Modes
For each of the Screen Modes we carefully measure the Absolute Color Accuracy using an advanced series of spectroradiometer measurements with 41 Reference Colors that provide a detailed map of the Color Accuracy throughout the entire Color Gamut for each Screen Mode.
Absolute Color Accuracy is measured in terms of Just Noticeable Color Differences, JNCD. See this Figure for an explanation and visual definition of JNCD and the detailed Color Accuracy Plots showing the measured Color Errors for the 41 Reference Colors for each Color Gamut. For all of the calibrated Screen Modes, the Galaxy Note7 has uniformly Very Good to Excellent Absolute Color Accuracy. See our detailed Absolute Color Accuracy Plots with 41 Reference Colors for the 3 calibrated screen Modes and also this regarding Bogus Color Accuracy Measurements.
http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note7_ShootOut_1.htmSo you not liking what you're seeing doesn't mean what you're seeing isn't accurate.
BarryH_GEG said:
One. You're pitting your subjective preferences against a PhD holding expert that tested the display using a battery of standardized tests using sophisticated equipment.
Absolute Color Accuracy for Each of the Screen Modes
For each of the Screen Modes we carefully measure the Absolute Color Accuracy using an advanced series of spectroradiometer measurements with 41 Reference Colors that provide a detailed map of the Color Accuracy throughout the entire Color Gamut for each Screen Mode.
Absolute Color Accuracy is measured in terms of Just Noticeable Color Differences, JNCD. See this Figure for an explanation and visual definition of JNCD and the detailed Color Accuracy Plots showing the measured Color Errors for the 41 Reference Colors for each Color Gamut. For all of the calibrated Screen Modes, the Galaxy Note7 has uniformly Very Good to Excellent Absolute Color Accuracy. See our detailed Absolute Color Accuracy Plots with 41 Reference Colors for the 3 calibrated screen Modes and also this regarding Bogus Color Accuracy Measurements.
http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note7_ShootOut_1.htmSo you not liking what you're seeing doesn't mean what you're seeing isn't accurate.
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Wait a sec I think you might have misread or misinterpreted my original comments. I never claimed the display was in any way inaccurate, in fact IIRC a point was even raised about my having seen the analysis reports and such. My comment was purely a subjective one, that I don't like the new calibration in light of a personal preference towards truer-than-life color reproduction on a display. My asking for comments was not to challenge the accuracy of reports stating the Note 7 is properly calibrated, rather it was just to reach out and see if anyone also preferred the "old style" color tendencies.
IIRC someone in this topic mentioned about how Samsung might not want users to play with the calibration settings (thus no manual control) as it would potentially lead to creating a bad impression for anyone who saw any given user's device and didn't like the color reproduction. But I would argue that this is the inherent problem of Android, and OEM skins to boot. Just looking at some of the people here in Japan, and the phone(s) they are using with absolutely grotesque levels of carrier bloatware and skins (NTT docomo is by far the worst), I often feel Android is being misrepresented both to the user and to the market itself.
Many times people have said how "my phone is so slow" or "I don't like all these apps on it" and I've tried to explain how that's entirely the result of (1) the Docomo skin, or (2) the fact that it's a carrier model. Now adays more people are starting to at least know OF factory unlocked products though actually buying them is another issue entirely. I'd wager anyone not actively interested in tech around the world really has no interest in spending the better part of 1K on a top-end flagship sold factory unlocked. Thus people take what they can get for as low as they can get it for.
Anyway, going back to the original topic of the display, Samsung really shouldn't worry about how users might "sully" the beauty of AMOLED given that carriers already do enough to cause even the best phone(s) to be "broken" and that shapes someone's impressions just as much.
Now I actually have the Note 7 my anxiety over the colour saturation and screen modes has been eradicated! The display does not disappoint in any way and adaptive mode is surprisingly. . perfect!
I notice the difference between my Note 7 and my Galaxy Tab S, they look different but the Note 7 is equally good.
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Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk
tokyoguy, Really, I dont know what device you are talking about, or got yourself a really, really defective one, my screen is the best I have ever had, I hat 4 other samsung models, 2 sony, etc, this one the note7 is the best for me
Reading e-books in night mode (dark brownish background and yellowish font) is the only situation where low light performance of the screen is critical to me. The QHD screen on the Note 4 performs admirably in this regard. The brightness I use is around 5%.
I'm worried the P-OLED might blur the font edges and give them a grainy look, effectively negating the benefits of a higher resolution screen over 1080p. I would not wish for any extra strain on the eyes; I tend to read every night in bed.
Any night-time e-book readers that own the V30 out there?
Uoppi said:
Reading e-books in night mode (dark brownish background and yellowish font) is the only situation where low light performance of the screen is critical to me. The QHD screen on the Note 4 performs admirably in this regard. The brightness I use is around 5%.
I'm worried the P-OLED might blur the font edges and give them a grainy look, effectively negating the benefits of a higher resolution screen over 1080p. I would not wish for any extra strain on the eyes; I tend to read every night in bed.
Any night-time e-book readers that own the V30 out there?
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Asking for other e-book readers experience is smart, but be aware your "5%" on the Samsung Note 4 may be much different on other phones.
What is your "5%" in lumens? Give us a real number. Each OLED OEM sets a different minimum brightness level. Saying you like 5% on Samsung Note 4 is useless. That might be 20% or 25% brightness of the LG V30...
That's what Google did for the 2017 Pixel 2 XL -- even though they use the same LG display as the V30 Google set a much higher minimum brightness level. 5% of the Pixel 2 XL is 25%, 30% of the V30. LG lets their display get MUCH darker.
Here, go read this and look and side by side pictures.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=74928406
Sent from my official carrier unlocked LG V30+ US998
Yes, I am aware 5 % on the Note 4 is not the same on the V30. I just mentioned it in passing, could just as well have said I keep the screen on "almost as dark as it gets".
I think a further question is, are the display issues less noticeable on dark brown/blackish background vs. the grey most comparisons use as the example?
I keep the background not-quite-black and font not-quite-white (in ither words: yellowish), because it's easier on the eyes than the contrast of simple black and white.