Related
Just wondering if the OTA servers are back and if a new update is available?
They have been down several days. You can be patient and wait, or you can go over
to one of the threads in Developers and download the file version -- say 3588.
Usually you have to win-rar the download to get the update.zip and recovery folder.
Hook up your PC to you G-Tablet and copy both files to the /sdcard directory.
The shut down and boot into recovery using power/volume + and that you cause the update to load.
Hope this helps.
Rev
I was just hoping (maybe plz)
That a new release would bring us some honey happiness!
I am content with VegaN for now..
Sorry, but I don't frankly think we see honey-anything for a long while
unless its an out and out hack.
Google is being stupid and it seems to me the tablet companies are not
moving that fast either.
IN THE END, I think whether you are really happy with something -- as in
tablet -- depends on how you use what you've got to work with.
Rev
butchconner said:
Sorry, but I don't frankly think we see honey-anything for a long while
unless its an out and out hack.
Google is being stupid and it seems to me the tablet companies are not
moving that fast either.
IN THE END, I think whether you are really happy with something -- as in
tablet -- depends on how you use what you've got to work with.
Rev
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not google that is holding up things. Its the tablet manufacturers. We could have honeycomb if viewsonic released source code for the drivers we need. What viewsonic should be doing is using the developers here to improve there products!
But couldn't you....
tnerb123 said:
Its not google that is holding up things. Its the tablet manufacturers. We could have honeycomb if viewsonic released source code for the drivers we need. What viewsonic should be doing is using the developers here to improve there products!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not an expert or anything, but if the Xoom and the G-tab are as close in hardware as I've read, couldn't someone extract the drivers from a Xoom and use them in a G-tab? I hope I'm asking this correctly. I'm not sure how the dirvers are implimented in Android since I come from a PC background.
IndyLateNite said:
I'm not an expert or anything, but if the Xoom and the G-tab are as close in hardware as I've read, couldn't someone extract the drivers from a Xoom and use them in a G-tab? I hope I'm asking this correctly. I'm not sure how the dirvers are implimented in Android since I come from a PC background.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They aren't the same, that's the problem. Completely different system boards - the only thing the "same" that we know of is the CPU, and I believe the Wifi. The only issue is that the frame buffer seems to have moved to either the kernel or the bootloader, so even though we can boot up Honeycomb on the GTAB, no one's been able to activate the LCD (yet).
What we really need, from my "hacker" perspective, is another Harmony device like the Adam or VEGA to get Honeycomb. That's something we can use on the GTAB, since the boards are similar. Or, at the very least, for Nvidia to release a Honeycomb dev kit for the Harmony board. But so far none of these things have happened yet.
Imo, don't go on Honeycomb as your reason to own / keep a GTAB. I'd be more concerned about optimizing Froyo at this point. Google (and Nvidia) have really locked down Honeycomb so far, so who knows when a Harmony-based version will show up.
roebeet said:
They aren't the same, that's the problem. Completely different system boards - the only thing the "same" that we know of is the CPU, and I believe the Wifi. The only issue is that the frame buffer seems to have moved to either the kernel or the bootloader, so even though we can boot up Honeycomb on the GTAB, no one's been able to activate the LCD (yet).
What we really need, from my "hacker" perspective, is another Harmony device like the Adam or VEGA to get Honeycomb. That's something we can use on the GTAB, since the boards are similar. Or, at the very least, for Nvidia to release a Honeycomb dev kit for the Harmony board. But so far none of these things have happened yet.
Imo, don't go on Honeycomb as your reason to own / keep a GTAB. I'd be more concerned about optimizing Froyo at this point. Google (and Nvidia) have really locked down Honeycomb so far, so who knows when a Harmony-based version will show up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the explaination. I'm very new to the Android world so I'm still struggling to get a "windows" reference to everything. I've tried a few of the gingerbread roms and really don't see much diference than the stock one. Apps appear to work the same and other than a speed increase, it was the same "experience" if you know what I mean. I just wish there were apps that took full use of the tablet experience.
IndyLateNite said:
Thanks for the explaination. I'm very new to the Android world so I'm still struggling to get a "windows" reference to everything. I've tried a few of the gingerbread roms and really don't see much diference than the stock one. Apps appear to work the same and other than a speed increase, it was the same "experience" if you know what I mean. I just wish there were apps that took full use of the tablet experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had the same learning curve - Android is more like Windows CE than Windows, imo. As for Gingerbread, it's not a major update but it is a bit more polished and there are speed improvements - think of it as a "service pack", almost.
Has the Viewsonic Gtablet development become a standstill?
Thoughts?
Opinions?
No.... I believe not.
Now everyone's holding their breath for HC.
Here somewhere is a post about latest development (sorry can't find it now).
HC is already booting on G-tab. Hopefully devs will get everything they need to get it going.
Keep my fingers crossed!!!!
You have a cyanogen tag in your sig and yet you ask that? They are releasing nightlies at least once a week. As far as Honeycomb goes it may be booting but its completely worthless to use.
I think I'll keep my thoughts and opinions to myself as anything negative about the wonderous GTab is not tolerated here
thebadfrog said:
You have a cyanogen tag in your sig and yet you ask that? They are releasing nightlies at least once a week. As far as Honeycomb goes it may be booting but its completely worthless to use.
I think I'll keep my thoughts and opinions to myself as anything negative about the wonderous GTab is not tolerated here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMFAO, you can always talk about the "horrible viewing angle" everybody CAN agree on!
Kenfly, there is actual progress reported that I believe involves a dump of an ASUS Honeycomb box that has been ported to the Adam and there is a picture of it on a G-tab. I just read about actual WPA2 support too.
Here is the thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1065220
The good news is, Roebeet has taken an interest too, so there are some VERY clever guys working on this!
Yes there is but it is completely unuseable at this point.
I was told the viewing angles are not horrible and to expressing my opinion of that as well
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1064775
Follow that thread. Oozura is doing a great job keeping everyone up to date with cm nightlies and releases with bugs and bug fixes. They are making huge progress on major issues right now. It means at some point Gojimi will update VeganGinger as well.
If you follow that thread keep mashing that thanks button for him so people know there is interest and he keeps posting
I see it slowing down as more turn towards the newer tablets on the market. Updates wont be as frequent...
If you have it setup good now then you'll be ok. Its not like the internet, video or audio will stop working because of this.
kenfly said:
Has the Viewsonic Gtablet development become a standstill?
Thoughts?
Opinions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No?
Looks like tons of action to me - pershoot and others have delivered stable overclocked/undervolted kernels in the past week, and the CM7 team has cranked out two stable and about 10 nightly revs in the past week, going from "yes, it sorta works" to functional camera and some hardware acceleration for video playback.
What projects are you working on?
there are more forums to search than the ones here (hint)
There's a lot going on, in early (VERY EARLY) stages.
While some might believe that the Gtab is worthless, I would argue that the hardware itself is not at all. The company that put their name on it, and their "support" might very well be as worthless as a batteries to the Amish.
There are experiments going on utilizing The Notion Ink Adam, and porting it's software to the G-tab. There's a rumor that they are getting an official GB update, and if portable to the G-tab, then we could essentially have an "official" GB Rom (including drivers from Nvidea), without VS needing to get their hands dirty. There are a few comparable (in hardware) tablets out there that are getting the support from their manufacturers that we would like to get from VS. If we can't get VS to update, then the next best thing is to borrow updates from other systems.
If it all works out, it will definitely not be a quick release. Lots of testing would be needed, since the code being worked on is not "made" for the G-tablet.
The reason that it seems like development has halted, or at best, slowed down, is because nothing new is coming from the allmighty VS. Nothing can be developed from the nothing that they are constantly providing. The only development that can be done is using existing Roms, and tweaking them. The bottom line, though, is that unless VS comes out with a GB Rom WITH hardware drivers, the current batch of custom Roms, Vegan-Tab, VeganGinger, CM7, TNT, etc. are dead in the water, and will never have hardware acceleration, since they are all based off of old code, that doesn't include it.
So, simple answer, there are developments that are ongoing, there are tweaks and fixes, possibly additions to some of the existing roms, but there will never be any development on new VS rom, until VS actually releases a new VS rom.
Only one person is building off VS firmware. Everyone else is using Google source and from the commits that Nvidia is making to git. VeganGinger and CM7 are under constant development and CM gets closer everyday to finalizing hardware acceleration. Vegan-Tab is froyo and based off vega firmware and has hardware acceleration as does TNTlite.
Depending on Notion Ink, the king of stretching the truth, for something is knuts
And yes there are some half ass non useful ports of Honeycomb posted on other sites. Nothing works. Its a honeycomb gui hacked into an old kernel
TJEvans said:
While some might believe that the Gtab is worthless, I would argue that the hardware itself is not at all. The company that put their name on it, and their "support" might very well be as worthless as a batteries to the Amish.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great analogy. =)
TJEvans said:
There are experiments going on utilizing The Notion Ink Adam, and porting it's software to the G-tab. There's a rumor that they are getting an official GB update, and if portable to the G-tab, then we could essentially have an "official" GB Rom (including drivers from Nvidea), without VS needing to get their hands dirty. There are a few comparable (in hardware) tablets out there that are getting the support from their manufacturers that we would like to get from VS. If we can't get VS to update, then the next best thing is to borrow updates from other systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The NI software release, if they do in fact follow through with something for once, will be utilizing the exact same GB-compatible drivers that we already have. We already have "official" GB ROMs with the same level of HW accel that anything from NI would come out with. We already have those drivers from nVidia. =)
But you're right in implying that VS won't have to get their hands dirty. =)
TJEvans said:
Nothing can be developed from the nothing that they are constantly providing. The only development that can be done is using existing Roms, and tweaking them. The bottom line, though, is that unless VS comes out with a GB Rom WITH hardware drivers, the current batch of custom Roms, Vegan-Tab, VeganGinger, CM7, TNT, etc. are dead in the water, and will never have hardware acceleration, since they are all based off of old code, that doesn't include it.
So, simple answer, there are developments that are ongoing, there are tweaks and fixes, possibly additions to some of the existing roms, but there will never be any development on new VS rom, until VS actually releases a new VS rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually.... you're incorrect here. New development is being done completely independent of VS. It's called CyanogenMod-based and AOSP-based ROMs and they are completely different than those based on VS or NI-based ROMs which anything based on those are in fact MODs and tweaks. CM and AOSP ROMs are based on newer code and do include the foundation for hw acceleration.
So to summarize - development is not dead if you're not based on a locked bootloader and stock ROM from VS. If you're based on Google and nVidia then there is definitely development going on. It's all in what your base is.
We already have "official" GB ROMs with the same level of HW accel that anything from NI would come out with. We already have those drivers from nVidia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll have to excuse my ignorance on this issue, as all I've used so far is Vegan-Tab. I love it, it's stable, and I've not seen any inherent problems with it, so I figure, why change?
But, I thought that CM7 and VeganGinger had issues with video playback and 3d video acceleration, since Nvidea is "no longer going to support the Harmony Tegra 2 chipset." I don't know much about CM7, but from reading their website, and observing some of the experimental posts, it doesn't seem that they've been able to truly replicate the drivers that, I believe, Nvidea owes us. Nvidea said that they will provide support and updates if manufacturers requested it. As far as I know, Viewsonic only had one update since they made that statement, and it didn't include anything new from NVidea.
I had assumed that since this rumored NI GB update was official from the manufacturer, that they wouldn't have done it without getting official drivers from Nvidea.
I'm sorry, is there something I'm missing? I thought that it was a big deal that NVidea hasn't provided driver updates for true hardware acceleration, and that it can't be achieved without informaiton from them, and that they've decided ot no longer support...
it's a confusing world in the land of G-Tab.
TJEvans said:
You'll have to excuse my ignorance on this issue, as all I've used so far is Vegan-Tab. I love it, it's stable, and I've not seen any inherent problems with it, so I figure, why change?
But, I thought that CM7 and VeganGinger had issues with video playback and 3d video acceleration, since Nvidea is "no longer going to support the Harmony Tegra 2 chipset." I don't know much about CM7, but from reading their website, and observing some of the experimental posts, it doesn't seem that they've been able to truly replicate the drivers that, I believe, Nvidea owes us. Nvidea said that they will provide support and updates if manufacturers requested it. As far as I know, Viewsonic only had one update since they made that statement, and it didn't include anything new from NVidea.
I had assumed that since this rumored NI GB update was official from the manufacturer, that they wouldn't have done it without getting official drivers from Nvidea.
I'm sorry, is there something I'm missing? I thought that it was a big deal that NVidea hasn't provided driver updates for true hardware acceleration, and that it can't be achieved without informaiton from them, and that they've decided ot no longer support...
it's a confusing world in the land of G-Tab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The rumored NI GB update is just that - rumor just like all the other NI rumors. We'll see what happens.
As to nVidia - the 3991 update that was later pulled from VS contained updated GB-compatible libs that were from the Gingerbread Ventana system image from nVidia. Those libs were (and still are) in CM7 and AOSP and VEGAn-TAB. Hacks and mods have been inserted to make CM7 work with them and hw accel is functioning much better after pershoot's kernel overclocking.
thank you for the clarification
Guys (and girls ... if any are reading .. )
After some tinkering about (for days now) with Mango build 7720 (Thanks again YUKI + XBOXMOD!) I can confirm that the many of the issues present in Mango Beta are now gone ... Ok granted the MicroSD gets encrypted but its not meant to be removed on an original WP7! You can refer to Yuki's thread on how to unlock your MicroSD card if you don't fancy the likes Microsofts OS and want to revert back to Android .....
Now, it's a known fact that multitouch is an issue together with sound and camera. I was unable to find solutions to this issue. This thread seeks to ask / reply and hopefully implement some of the issues which remain for us to make the HD2 and hopefully run Android and WP7 natively without the abstraction layer present in the secondary bootloaders.
Question 1 - I am aware that CLK runs android only. Are the sound / camera / and multitouch issues present in WP7 also present in Android NAND roms running on CLK ?
Question 2 - How possible is it to modify CLK to run WP7 if the answer to above is NO?
Question 3 - If the issue iies in the secondary bootloader drivers (if any) ... Is there a way to modify/contribute for further development on them?
If we resolve these the HD2 would truly be a remarkable piece of hardware running virtually any OS. Presently the multitouch issue kills some of the enjoyment on WP7 ... and the source sound input gain is too high.
I really wish if we could get some serious thread going and if anyone is confident that he/she can help resolving the driver issue, feel free to pm me. I am a software developer (c#) if this can help in any way. Have been using it some years now on a daily basis. I am willing to provide my help. I hope that anyone could help along maybe we create yet another open source bootloader which does the trick.
Hoping to hear from you so we get something going ...
Regards
Al
I would really like to hear from some devs I am more than sure that the community would be very grateful.
Secondly (courtesy of warriorvibhu)
I suggest that you all Sign this Petition.. Kindly inform all fellow HD2 owners to sign it ... especially if they were impressed by WP7 on HD2.
Alcatrazx said:
Guys (and girls ... if any are reading .. )
Now, it's a known fact that multitouch is an issue together with sound and camera. I was unable to find solutions to this issue. This thread seeks to ask / reply and hopefully implement some of the issues which remain for us to make the HD2 and hopefully run Android and WP7 natively without the abstraction layer present in the secondary bootloaders.
Question 1 - I am aware that CLK runs android only. Are the sound / camera / and multitouch issues present in WP7 also present in Android NAND roms running on CLK ?
No there are some issues in camera and sound with android but is related to incomplete kernel. They are not related to each other for example no multi touch issues on android. All those issues are related to not perfect drivers hd7 is using another touchscreen panel I guess and maybe different speakers and camera. Anyway those drivers are complexed to write because we dont get source from microsoft on how to write them.
Question 2 - How possible is it to modify CLK to run WP7 if the answer to above is NO?
Theoritically yes but CLK is designed to load an linux kernel. So if we want that we need to write a complete new bootloader.
Question 3 - If the issue iies in the secondary bootloader drivers (if any) ... Is there a way to modify/contribute for further development on them?
Yes but you need to go backt to Windows 6.5 and read out the current drivers and port them to windows phone 7 properly. But you will need a JTAG for it and you must be very skilled.
If we resolve these the HD2 would truly be a remarkable piece of hardware running virtually any OS. Presently the multitouch issue kills some of the enjoyment on WP7 ... and the source sound input gain is too high.
I really wish if we could get some serious thread going and if anyone is confident that he/she can help resolving the driver issue, feel free to pm me. I am a software developer (c#) if this can help in any way.
Hoping to hear from you so we get something going ...
Regards
Al
Question
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hope this make some stuff clear.
You talk about a sound issue.
If your talking about the sound being too high, then a cab can be downloadeed to fix this. Doesnt limit the maximum volume, just reduces the minimum and puts bigger steps in placce.
We need an asm developer for try to fix multitouch problem... or the source code of driver...
Multi-touch is a bit better for me (don't know if the games which need two screen pressure work I didn't tried yet) but in Bing Maps and IE9 it's working most of the time.
Just hope that's will come soon, I cant wait it !
However, I also hope the Mango will worked with flash and include more apps in the marketplace.
Fisher_9511 said:
Multi-touch is a bit better for me (don't know if the games which need two screen pressure work I didn't tried yet) but in Bing Maps and IE9 it's working most of the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not working in any of multitouch Games.
Nice thread,curious to See the answers, definitely camera is a big issue for me, hope it get fixed soon.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Dont forget the need to use the "batterytrick"
good thread by the way
Unfortunately the thread won't lead to anywhere. Development on WP7/7.5 is not like development on Android. WP7 is closed source and so is the drivers.
So unless HTC themselves step in or a developer hacks new drivers up(which won't happen). We'll never see a native WP7.
We're using all the stuff that was leaked from the original LEO ROM. Also, CLK with WP7/7.5 boot support would not change this. And no, all these problems are not present in Android. But that's because the developers have more tools and open source code to work with, something we don't have.
Try to think positive man... Have you ever seen the arm listed file? We need to find a timer between the two finger... would not be so so so hard... but only hard...XD
TonyCubed said:
Unfortunately the thread won't lead to anywhere. Development on WP7/7.5 is not like development on Android. WP7 is closed source and so is the drivers.
So unless HTC themselves step in or a developer hacks new drivers up(which won't happen). We'll never see a native WP7.
We're using all the stuff that was leaked from the original LEO ROM. Also, CLK with WP7/7.5 boot support would not change this. And no, all these problems are not present in Android. But that's because the developers have more tools and open source code to work with, something we don't have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi and thanks for the feedback. With a negative attitude the thread will lead to nowhere yes. That was what people said a year ago when they said that WP7 will never run on the HD2 but the devs ultimately got there. Thanks for answering the question re the Android drivers though.
You are RIGHT that the drivers in WP7 are closed source drivers ... so is MAGLDR. Rewriting another bootloader (if needed) which does not have all the frills of MAGLDR but which is open source could be a possibility.
I am not interested in getting into the WP7 ROM and modifying the drivers built in ... We have to use a technique similar to what they use when creating emulators by reverse engineering ... The most die hard emulators out there such as some of the Playstation emus out there were all closed source but it did not stop the devs from doing a proper emulation of the console.
I'd really appreciate if you could be more specific when you said that we are using the stuff which was leaked from the original "LEO" ROM ... as far as I know, is it not the Schubert which was leaked? Correct me if I'm wrong ... We got too far to give up just now...
Multitouch games do not work .. with the current Multitouch driver .. mainly due to the finger position bug .... This is explained in detail on youtube.
Sound is distorted because the input gain is too high ...
Let's not speak about the camera for now ... I think those are the two major issues which need to be remedied for now. Hopefully this thread will get us somewhere.
Regards
Al
Good initiative ! I hope we can make things work.
Also for those with the negative attitude...if you dont have anything good to say...dont say !
backlashsid said:
Good initiative ! I hope we can make things work.
Also for those with the negative attitude...if you dont have anything good to say...dont say !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nicely said and many thanks
You talk about a sound issue.
If your talking about the sound being too high, then a cab can be downloadeed to fix this. Doesnt limit the maximum volume, just reduces the minimum and puts bigger steps in placce.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is not exactly fixing the issue... It just modifies the maxima and minima ... The sound (input gain) is too high making it sound distorted from the HD2. The fix does remedy this a bit but its ... erm not really fixing the problem.
do think this would be a good idea, but its not being negative pointing out the obvious issue, its being realistic.
you see the point you made on MAGLDR and WP7 running of the HD2 is mute, and im not sure you fully understand its use, there are fundamental differences in making WP7 believe the HD2 is a native device and changing the actual drivers, you see, the SPL for the HD2 was opened up a long time ago with HSPL to be put in place which pretty much allowed us to do anything, the next critical piece was MAGLDR, which sat on top of the HSPL which gave us the potential to install android then WP, both HSPL and MAGLDR are very much programed by folk on here, they were not "hacked" or copied, they are closed source as you put it but they are built for a purpose of doing exactly what they do, enable custom ROMs, for WM, Android and WP to install. But that’s not the issue, the issue is a driver
To be clearer on the matter, IF WP7 had never been tested on the HD2 initially then we would never have had it.
The reasons for the bugs we talk about are because we have test drivers that were never supposed to see the end user. Had we not had that opportunity with the drivers on the HD2 then we would have been up the creek with it.
There are only a number of possibilities to get what we want
•HTC/OEMs go out of their way to finish the HD2 WP7 drivers and give them to use
•HTC/OEMs gives us the Relevant code and tools to do it ourselves
•We find native Windows phone devices that uses EXACTLY the same hardware which we can borrow
•Finally, the wildcard, someone who happens to know how to program for the hardware in question comes to help us.
That is it im afraid, its not being negative, you want to know what we need to do, well, there you go, the chances of HTC etc helping us are almost non-existent, finding devices with the same hardware, well i think we have more of a chance of HTC giving us them, BUT thats more to do with the very old digitiser we have, less so with the other hardware elements, so there is a possibility there.
Finding someone who can actually build a driver from the ground up? its possible, but short of putting adverts out on every developer website asking for help its not likely we will find one from this thread alone.
dazza9075 said:
do think this would be a good idea, but its not being negative pointing out the obvious issue, its being realistic.
you see the point you made on MAGLDR and WP7 running of the HD2 is mute, and im not sure you fully understand its use, there are fundamental differences in making WP7 believe the HD2 is a native device and changing the actual drivers, you see, the SPL for the HD2 was opened up a long time ago with HSPL to be put in place which pretty much allowed us to do anything, the next critical piece was MAGLDR, which sat on top of the HSPL which gave us the potential to install android then WP, both HSPL and MAGLDR are very much programed by folk on here, they were not "hacked" or copied, they are closed source as you put it but they are built for a purpose of doing exactly what they do, enable custom ROMs, for WM, Android and WP to install. But that’s not the issue, the issue is a driver
To be clearer on the matter, IF WP7 had never been tested on the HD2 initially then we would never have had it.
The reasons for the bugs we talk about are because we have test drivers that were never supposed to see the end user. Had we not had that opportunity with the drivers on the HD2 then we would have been up the creek with it.
There are only a number of possibilities to get what we want
•HTC/OEMs go out of their way to finish the HD2 WP7 drivers and give them to use
•HTC/OEMs gives us the Relevant code and tools to do it ourselves
•We find native Windows phone devices that uses EXACTLY the same hardware which we can borrow
•Finally, the wildcard, someone who happens to know how to program for the hardware in question comes to help us.
That is it im afraid, its not being negative, you want to know what we need to do, well, there you go, the chances of HTC etc helping us are almost non-existent, finding devices with the same hardware, well i think we have more of a chance of HTC giving us them, BUT thats more to do with the very old digitiser we have, less so with the other hardware elements, so there is a possibility there.
Finding someone who can actually build a driver from the ground up? its possible, but short of putting adverts out on every developer website asking for help its not likely we will find one from this thread alone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ur right...man sometimes i so feel like bombarding Drew Bamford (product design HTC) emails about windows phone 7 and androi on HD2 and force him to be convinced to make drivers for us....its our right
but then again...can we really ???
backlashsid said:
ur right...man sometimes i so feel like bombarding Drew Bamford (product design HTC) emails about windows phone 7 and androi on HD2 and force him to be convinced to make drivers for us....its our right
but then again...can we really ???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd say... let's do this! If we get enough people, and those will send emails like everyday, then why not? There's nothing to lose
IF, and its a big IF, we are going to get it working better its going to need ideas like the comment from backlashsid to get unofficial support from these companies
In my humble opinion there is little chance of getting anything else working better without the support of people in the loop, essentially that means HTC and Qualcomm, but remember that by getting the HD2 running WP7 we are costing them money in lost sales, so there is little incentive for them to support us in an official capacity, what we're looking for is an insider!
it doesnt hurt hunting for new devices with the same hardware but its unlikely anyone would use old gear.
This would be nice so then we (as the community of XDA) can show off our HD2's as the beast-mode phone and bestest phone ever!
My Atrix got it's case cracked and the touch-screen display died, and given I already got a replacement phone I feel a bit adventurous. I wanted to see if I could build my own computer with what remains, so I wanted to run Linux natively (no Android). Given that there's a Linux 4 Tegra from Nvidia:
Is there a chance that I could build my own distro based on that?
Should I use another kernel (like the one currently used in gingerbread or CM7)?
Please note that I'm not trying to do webtop.
I thought of building my own handheld with the Atrix, or what remains of it. So any tips on how to get started would be great.
Cheers!
wrong section
ovitz said:
wrong section
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm... what section would you suggest other than Q&A?
It was moved. Sorry 'bout that. I was under the impression that development questions were on the other forum...
"Android development" is in the description. I think they keep that forum just for Android-specific things, even though Android is just a flavor of linux.
tonglebeak said:
"Android development" is in the description. I think they keep that forum just for Android-specific things, even though Android is just a flavor of linux.
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You're being way too literal. It's been used for all sorts of non-Android dev multiple times. Right now, Boot2Gecko is right there. The fact of the matter is that when it pertains to dev questions, this post would most likely be answered there. I'm pretty sure it'll die here on this forum with barely any useful answer, if at all.
The development section is mostly for things that are "in progress", ie. with "something to show". Questions, discussions and ideas go elsewhere.
As for your question, I believe I've seen a thread about this already, and quite recently too.
ravilov said:
The development section is mostly for things that are "in progress", ie. with "something to show". Questions, discussions and ideas go elsewhere.
As for your question, I believe I've seen a thread about this already, and quite recently too.
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I've checked a few that I've found on the forum, but most had no answer and were about other devices. With regards to the Atrix or the Tegra, I've only found threads about webtop.
Not to argue too much about this too much, but I've seen threads that started with nothing in the dev section. Like the Kernel porting project that started as a mere placeholder for the project. Point is, I've done my research and found no pointers to the questions I have. I made it in case another dev had an idea about it. I may have missed something, but that's why I asked in the first place. If I believed I had covered all grounds by myself, I wouldn't have asked in the first place.
Lugaidster said:
I've checked a few that I've found on the forum, but most had no answer and were about other devices. With regards to the Atrix or the Tegra, I've only found threads about webtop.
Not to argue too much about this too much, but I've seen threads that started with nothing in the dev section. Like the Kernel porting project that started as a mere placeholder for the project. Point is, I've done my research and found no pointers to the questions I have. I made it in case another dev had an idea about it. I may have missed something, but that's why I asked in the first place. If I believed I had covered all grounds by myself, I wouldn't have asked in the first place.
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What you're looking to do seems similar to this question: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2110161
The difference between the webtop and a stand alone installation of Linux won't be that different, mainly it would just be where on the device the OS is installed and how video is handled. That said, I'm not sure about the kernel, specifically the video drivers, since they're intended for Android and may not be compatible with X. AFAIK, Wayland is closer to Android than X is, but Wayland isn't quite ready.
Anyway, assuming you did succeed, what you would end up with would be less like a true desktop (as you'd be pretty much locked into a specific kernel, and therefor any packages limited by it, but it doesn't invalidate the effort), and more like a persistent live CD, since the OS would be installed to an area mounted as read-only (to prevent flash wear), with access to an area that has read/write access, like in Android where you store apps and user files. Overall, it could be fun if you enjoy a challenge and aren't intimidated by soldering and using the JTAG connector.
lehjr said:
What you're looking to do seems similar to this question: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2110161
The difference between the webtop and a stand alone installation of Linux won't be that different, mainly it would just be where on the device the OS is installed and how video is handled. That said, I'm not sure about the kernel, specifically the video drivers, since they're intended for Android and may not be compatible with X. AFAIK, Wayland is closer to Android than X is, but Wayland isn't quite ready.
Anyway, assuming you did succeed, what you would end up with would be less like a true desktop (as you'd be pretty much locked into a specific kernel, and therefor any packages limited by it, but it doesn't invalidate the effort), and more like a persistent live CD, since the OS would be installed to an area mounted as read-only (to prevent flash wear), with access to an area that has read/write access, like in Android where you store apps and user files. Overall, it could be fun if you enjoy a challenge and aren't intimidated by soldering and using the JTAG connector.
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Actually, I might have to do soldering anyway. I'm not really intimidated by it and don't really care all that much for phone functionality and such. I'm not even interested all that much in X as my project is more towards transforming it into a handheld gaming (more like emu) device. I don't mind compiling software specifically for the system. The question is pretty low-level in that regard for me. I want to know if I have to do anything with regards to the kernel since it's specific to Android. Given that most emus I know that would run acceptably in a tegra 2 don't really need the GPU, I don't mind just using framebuffer so HW doesn't really interest me.
Lugaidster said:
Actually, I might have to do soldering anyway. I'm not really intimidated by it and don't really care all that much for phone functionality and such. I'm not even interested all that much in X as my project is more towards transforming it into a handheld gaming (more like emu) device. I don't mind compiling software specifically for the system. The question is pretty low-level in that regard for me. I want to know if I have to do anything with regards to the kernel since it's specific to Android. Given that most emus I know that would run acceptably in a tegra 2 don't really need the GPU, I don't mind just using framebuffer so HW doesn't really interest me.
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Unfortunately, it's going to be one of those areas where you'll have to make an educated guess, since as far as we know, no one has successfully pulled off a straight Linux implementation on the device.
That said, nVidia does have both Android and Linux images for the Ventana dev kit, so it should be possible. In my case, I would compare the source code for their Linux kernel vs the stock Linux kernel vs their closest Android kernel vs the stock Android kernel. The biggest thing is how the the device specific files translate from one kernel to another, because you'll likely need to translate the device specific files for the Atrix in the same manner. The changes may be subtle or they may be drastic. The main thing is to just be able to set the pins properly so you don't release any "magic smoke". Unfortunately, I see no source code for any of nVidia's kernels.
Anyway, that's how I would do it, but I do suspect that someone with more knowledge could find a much simpler approach and hopefully they'll chime in, but this part of the forums isn't the thriving hub of activity it used to be, so I don't know if that will happen any time soon or at all.
lehjr said:
nVidia does have both Android and Linux images for the Ventana dev kit
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Atrix is a Whistler, not a Ventana.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33289027#post33289027
ravilov said:
Atrix is a Whistler, not a Ventana.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33289027#post33289027
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Thanks for the heads up and the link! :highfive:
Hi there,
I'm a programmer and formerly worked for one of the major Android handset developers as a platform engineer. When we developed the devices, we had separate build configurations and tools for kernel and platform, and built them separately... I rarely had any issue in building a new kernel for a platform, or building a new platform and using it with an old kernel.
That being said, what is the present difficulty that is being run into with using what should be a fully-functional GB kernel (incl. graphics drivers) with the ICS or JB platform? I am genuinely curious on this mark - if you are using the original kernel and drivers, I would imagine you should have full functionality (as they expose at least OpenGL ES in a consistent manner).
If you reply, please don't water down your comments - I'm a kernel developer myself (though not for Linux), so I appreciate and look forward to technical jargon.
"GPU Acceleration" (Hardware Acceleration) I'd imagine would be handled via the OpenGL interface libraries that come with the driver... that's what I'm asking: why can't the Gingerbread ones be used? What specifically prevents it from working? What's preventing you from modifying the ICS/GB platform to be compatible with "less-featureful" drivers?
As I said, I used to do this professionally, and am a professional programmer, so I'm looking for specifics.
AmeiseMike said:
What's preventing you from modifying the ICS/GB platform to be compatible with "less-featureful" drivers?
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Nothing. And that's exactly what the devs have been doing so far. The result is well known to everyone - an almost perfect system that's lacking true HW acceleration in certain areas. Modifying and adapting can only get you so far.
I'm no expert so I won't pretend to be one, but as far as I know it has something to do with the newer nvidia drivers (that support proper HWA) which are proprietary binary blobs and have only been released for kernels newer than what we have. So we have a working kernel with semi-working adapted drivers, or true proper drivers with no kernel to use them on. And that's exactly where all the current porting efforts are directed - making a working kernel for the Atrix that's recent enough to make video drivers useful. In fact, since you say you have quite some experience with kernel development, you might consider joining the team, I'm sure they can always use any help they can get.
You could theoretically use existing drivers from kernel space, but they are not compatible with ICS.
Another option would be to ask nVidia nicely for drivers then build a new kernel, not forgetting two dozen other neccessary drivers, too.
OR, you could use a newer kernel with drivers that are compatible with ICS and which includes better handling of resources.
Option one will be adequate for Honeycomb. Hardware acceleration was first introduced in API level 11 (Honeycomb) and the XOOM was horribly buggy and slow with the old kernel.
Option two will never happen for various (obvious) reasons. For hardware acceleration to work properly you need nVidia drivers which require a 3.0 kernel.
Option 3 is something that a few in the Atrix community are working on.
My question, though, is why are said drivers incompatible with ICS/JB? What has changed that has rendered the platform incompatible with the previous drivers? If 3d Hardware Acceleration worked in GB, why can it not be used within ICS/JB (which should only care about GL ES, which hasn't changed)? If a feature of some sort has been added in ICS/JB that has caused the incompatibility, why not disable it? Features that had worked shouldn't be rendered inoperable unless a binary-level incompatibility exists, and I can't fathom why one would when you have platform source (via AOSP).
That is a question i'm afraid no one other than nVidia can answer. Why do their HA drivers require a 3.0 kernel is the question to ask.
---------- Post added at 10:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 PM ----------
What existing HA in GB are you referring to?
integraletotale said:
That is a question i'm afraid no one other than nVidia can answer. Why do their HA drivers require a 3.0 kernel is the question to ask.
---------- Post added at 10:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 PM ----------
What existing HA in GB are you referring to?
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OpenGL ES 1 and 2 fully function on Gingerbread (and are accelerated, that is, not rasterized by something like Mesa). These are components of the GPU driver, more specifically the GLES interface libraries. I don't see why those are rendered incompatible.
That stretches beyond my knowledge of what is made available by the driver, so, I really don't know. I'd greatly appreciate you taking a minute to review progress being made on github. Links in the development section of this forum in the thread mentioned earlier.
To put it into a different context (approaching it a different way), have any other OSen such as Ubuntu been ported to the Atrix, using the kernel, and having 3d HWA?
Not sure if it's useful information or..... but from what I've read even the GB kernel used by Motorola for the Atrix was just a cobbled up rush job based on a Froyo kernel..
So the ROM developers here have a steeper hill to climb than you thought.... Making ICS/JB ROM's operational from basically a patched Froyo kernel
I once got Honeycomb working on a Froyo device (don't ask), including HWA... without any kernel changes.
My suspicion is that maybe people are unwilling to hack up the platform to work with the drivers as they are? So long as there are drivers that have supported HWA, there's no reason that they shouldn't be able to continue to do so, you have to alter the platform so that it can. ICS/JB internally will look a bit more like GB afterwards, but many of ICS/JB's improvements were in the realm of expanding what used HWA (which already existed) and improvements in their multithreading code, neither of which should require anything that's not already there.
EDIT: I'd point out that I'm speaking hypothetically. I don't know what the actual issue is, hence why I'm probing for specifics .
Are there any developers around who might be able to shed light upon this for me?
Hi,
What eaxctly do you need this information for? Are you working on porting Ubuntu Touch on the Atrix?
AmeiseMike said:
Are there any developers around who might be able to shed light upon this for me?
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here's a link http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2016837 , maybe you'll get your answer there
I'm not sure what that link has to do with my original question? I'm aware that attempts for porting other kernels are being undertaken, what I am wondering is why it's necessary (and not a vague 'because x and Y require a new kernel, but specifics).
AmeiseMike said:
I'm not sure what that link has to do with my original question? I'm aware that attempts for porting other kernels are being undertaken, what I am wondering is why it's necessary (and not a vague 'because x and Y require a new kernel, but specifics).
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You asked are there any developers around who might 'shed some light' on your question. There's only a handful of developers left and the link takes you to some of the most current ones. You can also check out the others in the Development section.
What exactly do you need this information for?
To see if there's an alternate route towards porting newer versions of the platform to the phone (as I said, I've ported platforms to older kernels before when I was employed by one of the manufacturers), and as a hobbyist forking Android and porting it to my phone (which is an Atrix).
I'm just very confused as to what the problem is that necessitates a new kernel; I didn't have any issues like this when porting platforms before - I merely altered the platform so that it would work with the older drivers (sometimes that required disabling newer functionality, but functionality that worked beforehand was still there).
AmeiseMike said:
To see if there's an alternate route towards porting newer versions of the platform to the phone (as I said, I've ported platforms to older kernels before when I was employed by one of the manufacturers), and as a hobbyist forking Android and porting it to my phone (which is an Atrix).
I'm just very confused as to what the problem is that necessitates a new kernel; I didn't have any issues like this when porting platforms before - I merely altered the platform so that it would work with the older drivers (sometimes that required disabling newer functionality, but functionality that worked beforehand was still there).
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Instead of asking, why not try and do it and see for yourself.:good:
Because I'm not interested in potentially bricking / rendering unusable my phone if there's a known good reason why it can't be done.