i know these questions can probably be found somewhere but would someone be able to give me a quick run down of what 1.1 and 1.2 stock is and how does that relate to 3588 and 4349? also what is the bootloader and why do some things require the stock bootloader and not CWM? and also, how do you go back to the stock bootloader, just nvflash the stock 1.1 or 1.2? and also why are 1.1 and 1.2 bootloaders not compatible with certain roms and such?
thanks in advance!
joshtb86 said:
i know these questions can probably be found somewhere but would someone be able to give me a quick run down of what 1.1 and 1.2 stock is and how does that relate to 3588 and 4349? also what is the bootloader and why do some things require the stock bootloader and not CWM? and also, how do you go back to the stock bootloader, just nvflash the stock 1.1 or 1.2? and also why are 1.1 and 1.2 bootloaders not compatible with certain roms and such?
thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can answer some ...
1.1 and 1.2 are the 2 common bootloaders for the gtablet.
I think of bootloaders as a layer of software that sits underneath a ROM and provides services to it. ie between the ROM and the hardware.
1.2 is the newer bootloader, which is needed by 4349, Bottle of Smoke (BOS) which is a Honeycomb distribution, and a few other. (Mountain Laurel, and Brilliant Corners which are 1.2 versions on TNT Lite and Vegan Tab).
All others 3588 (and before), TNT Lite *, Vegan Tab, CM (all versions maybe except one which I hear is for 1.2 for gadam?) use the 1.1 bootloader.
Stock recovery (update.zip and command file) , will update both ROM and bootloader, and is the preferred way to go between 1.1 and 1.2 based ROMs
CWM 0.8 will update ROM but *not* the bootloader.
So CWM cannot be used to go between 1.1 and 1.2 based ROMs.
If you currently use CWM, you can nvflash to a stock ROM (eg 3588), you get stock recovery back, and you should be then able to update to any ROM.
There is also a recovery pack for some 3588 based ROMS (maybe also for the 4349 ROMs) that has scripts to switch between stock and CWM recovery, although I do not know how well they work. Doing this would not require NV flashing.
My guess as to why different ROMs go with different Bootloaders, is that the newer Bootloaders, provide new functionality for new ROMs (due to which, new ROMs do not work with old bootloaders) and delete functionality needed by older ROMs (due to which, older ROMs do not work with newer bootloaders). However if the ROM could be made to not rely on these changes of services, they could in theory be made to work with both bootloaders. I have no idea if this is possible in practice.
joshtb86 said:
i know these questions can probably be found somewhere but would someone be able to give me a quick run down of what 1.1 and 1.2 stock is and how does that relate to 3588 and 4349? also what is the bootloader and why do some things require the stock bootloader and not CWM? and also, how do you go back to the stock bootloader, just nvflash the stock 1.1 or 1.2? and also why are 1.1 and 1.2 bootloaders not compatible with certain roms and such?
thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3588 use the 1.1 bootloader
The recovery is only able to start an update.zip
4349 use the 1.2 bootloader (same as Honeycomb based rom)
4349 also install a new recovery that look like CWM but is Honeycomb blue
Bootloader in this case is actually a combination of 2 thing, bootloader and kernel they are save on 2 different part of the nvflash image (2-3)
The stock bootloader is needed to be able to move from a rom using version version 1.1 to 1.2 or back, the proper method is to use an update.zip since this is the only method know to update the bootloader (NVFLASH doesnt flash partition 2 and 3)
To go back use UPDATE.ZIP with a STOCK 1.1 recovery, you can even nvflash the recovery directly using nvflash (position #9)
Why are they incompatible? good question, mostly kernel related afaik, there's now cross compatible kernel available that allow you to use a 1.2 bootloader with a 1.1 rom (see Clemsyn thread) this also provide the capacity to use similar rom from other brand (seem like the gtab was using an older bootloader)
very interesting subject that do require reading a few thread to be safe...
cbay, Thanks that was very informative. I had been wondering the same question.
well, now you know the what and how, but what about the why and the history...
Viewsonic is a basically a repackager. they put their name on a product and sell it to the masses. US Merchants is the US company that imports these products from China. The Chinese company that actually builds them is called Malata.
Malata is also responsible for the Notion Ink Adam as well as some other Tegra 2 based tablets.
The odd part comes in to play when you look at the bootlaoders for each device. Notion Ink always used a 1.2 bootloader for their Adam updates and firmwares. Viewsonic, though, was using what is assumed to be an older version of firmware based on the 1.1 branch. There is a lot of speculation as to why this is, and there is no real answer.
Now, back in February, one of the devs got a hold of a firmware labelled 3391. He discovered that it was on a different bootloader than the G-Tablet was currently using. he messed around with it a bit, but it proved to be difficult to crack at the time, since everyone was on 1.1 and it wasn't an official update, so nobody really had it.
Then, Viewsonic hadn't released an official update for a while. Users were getting irritated, and a mass request went out for Viewsonic to do SOMETHING...they did, they released the 4349 firmware, but then pulled it 24 hours later. It's still known as the most recent officla firmware, thought it's not available anymore (officially) 4349 also ended up being a 1.2 firmware. SO, now since this was an official update, the developer that was messing with 3391 figured that this was the direction that Viewsonic/Malata was going to go. He made his opinions known but was rejected by some of the mods here at XDA.
Since then, he has graciously moved to another forum where he houses all of his 1.2 roms. He took it upon himself ot convert his older roms to the newer 1.2 bootloader (Brilliant Corners, Mountain Laurel). He also created a seperate Clockwork mod that will work on 1.2 bootlaoder as well.
It was discovered that the new 1.2 bootloader from Viewsonic was the same bootloader that Adam had been using all along. It seemed that Viewsonic was either using, or getting outdated software from Malata. So, now we can also use Adam Roms and Kernels on our G-Tablets as well.
Honeycomb was ported from another device, but enabled to use the 1.2 bootloader. It's still in Alpha stages, but does require the 1.2 bootloader to flash.
Essentially, 3588 was the LAST 1.1 official updated firmware directly from Viewsonic. The only way that it can be improved upon is if we get more 1.1 official updates from Viewsonic. But, since we haven't recieved ANY updates from Viewsonic, we're not holding our breath.
4349 was the FIRST (and as of now ONLY) 1.2 official update from Viewsonic.
Fortunately for G-Tablet users, the Adam bootloader being compatible with our 1.2 bootlaoder opens the door for infinate possibilities. We are no longer dependant on VS to provide updates, as updates from Notion Ink can be ported more easily.
it's been suggested that the older 1.1 roms e converted to 1.2 roms ot avoid confusion and unexpected softbricks caused by such confusion, but there is resistence.
cbay said:
I can answer some ...
If you nvflash to stock (ie without CWM), you should be able to update to any ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wrong, Nvflash doesn't update the bootloader, so the only correct way to move from one version of bootloader to the other is the update.zip method with a STOCK recovery (it also need a rom with the command "write_bootloader_image("/tmp/bootloader.bin", "EBT"" in the updater script )
Like you mentioned CWM doesn't flash the bootloader
if you check the process during nvflash, partition #2 and 3 (actually it's all the same partition only splitted in parts) are not flashed...
they can however be read using the correct command
Everything else is right, hey 2 answer for the same lazy question he's a lucky guy...
p00r, I'm very curious about that. Have you done a binary compare before and after nvflashing with different bootloaders to confirm it? If not, I may try it myself. I use nvflash to move between 1.1 and 1.2 based ROMs all the time and have never had any trouble with it. I do agree that it is probably better and safer to use stock recovery for normal usage but I've never had an nvflash fail on my tablet due to a difference in bootloaders so I'd like to learn more about it so I can use that information to avoid trouble.
P00r said:
wrong, Nvflash doesn't update the bootloader, so the only correct way to move from one version of bootloader to the other is the update.zip method with a STOCK recovery (it also need a rom with the command "write_bootloader_image("/tmp/bootloader.bin", "EBT"" in the updater script )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I meant was, nvflash to a stock ROM like 3588 and then use stock recovery to update to a 1.2 based ROM, instead of CWM.
As far as I know this should work, as nvflashing to a stock ROM like 3588 would get you to stock recovery as well. (Right?)
Also, at any point when updating to a ROM using stock recovery, it is good to read the thread of instructions for the particular ROM as, it may contain more steps of wiping data/ cache etc. Some ROMs may also require a change in partitioning.
K J Rad said:
p00r, I'm very curious about that. Have you done a binary compare before and after nvflashing with different bootloaders to confirm it? If not, I may try it myself. I use nvflash to move between 1.1 and 1.2 based ROMs all the time and have never had any trouble with it. I do agree that it is probably better and safer to use stock recovery for normal usage but I've never had an nvflash fail on my tablet due to a difference in bootloaders so I'd like to learn more about it so I can use that information to avoid trouble.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you want to compare exactly ?
There's plenty of post that explain the issue to move between 1.2 and 1.1 roebeet used to call this softbrick when he discovered the 3991 leaked viewsonic rom that used 1.2 bootloader...
cbay said:
What I meant was, nvflash to a stock ROM like 3588 and then use stock recovery to update to a 1.2 based ROM, instead of CWM.
As far as I know this should work, as nvflashing to a stock ROM like 3588 would get you to stock recovery as well. (Right?)
Also, at any point when updating to a ROM using stock recovery, it is good to read the thread of instructions for the particular ROM as, it may contain more steps of wiping data/ cache etc. Some ROMs may also require a change in partitioning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes as soon as you nvflash a stock recovery over anything and then use the recovery to do an update.zip of another rom type it will work.
wow thanks for the help everyone! i hit the thanks button to everyone who replied.
im running the clemsyn + calkulin version 5. does anyone know how to find out what version of the bootloader that is? there is a version 6 released requiring 1.2 and i also wanted to tryout the honeycomb version.
also, a backup image created with CWM - does it back up the bootloader, rom, and kernel? or just the rom
thanks again!
P00r said:
What do you want to compare exactly ?
There's plenty of post that explain the issue to move between 1.2 and 1.1 roebeet used to call this softbrick when he discovered the 3991 leaked viewsonic rom that used 1.2 bootloader...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Compare the bootloader before and after the nvflash. I've seen all the threads on moving between 1.1 and 1.2 and quite frankly I've never had any trouble using nvflash to do it regardless of which ROM I'm going to or from as long as I use the appropriate bootloader in the nvflash command. Based on that experience I would say the bootloader is being updated on the tablet or else I would have had considerably more trouble. The only time I've seen any trouble moving between the two is when trying to use ClockworkMod.
P00r said:
Everything else is right, hey 2 answer for the same lazy question he's a lucky guy...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Err, that wasn't really a "lazy question."
Everything on here and elsewhere assumes you know what "1.1" vs. "1.2" means without explanation. There's hardly anything anywhere that explains what they mean to new users.
I'm not sure how asking a question which isn't answered anywhere else is "lazy."
i cant seem to find an answer to this on any forum directly.
i have CWM .8 and calkulin+clemsyn. can i nvflash to the 1.2-4349 stock directly? or do i have to nvflas to 3588/1.1 stock first, then nvflash to 1.2/4349? everywhere it says you cannot do it with CWM but nothing says you cant NVflash between the two but nothing says you can do that either.
thanks!
I flashed directly from Vegan to 4349 without problem. I cannot see why it would not work for you. I then used stock recovery to load BOS, giving me CWM for 1.2 bootloader. Currently on Century Eyes, needed stable ROM with hardware acceleration.
SirhanSirhan said:
I flashed directly from Vegan to 4349 without problem. I cannot see why it would not work for you. I then used stock recovery to load BOS, giving me CWM for 1.2 bootloader. Currently on Century Eyes, needed stable ROM with hardware acceleration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think thats what im going to try. i couldnt find a straight answer anywhere. i think nvflash is so much easier to use than recovery, i wish i had used this earlier.
I'm fairly experienced at flashing various roms. I've done it with G Harmony Gingerbread, Vegan 7.0 Gingerbread and TNT Lite 4.x. All were successful. Sometimes I used NVram (1.2), sometimes not. I always wiped user data etc.
When I try to flash Android Illuminate Alpha 2.1 or Bottle of Smoke 6.0 all I get is stuck at the VS splash screen. I've tried everything and no matter what I do the end result is the splash screen.
I know I'm not doing the process wrong and it's a pretty good coincidence that the only ones that freeze are honeycomb based. So my question is, is there something I could try different or are some G Tablet's hardware such that honeycomb simply won't flash?
1) What ROM are you flashing from?
2) Which bootloader is it based on?
3) Are you using CWM or stock recovery (or, god forbid, ROM Manager)?
The symptom you have is common for someone trying to flash directly from a 1.1 bootloader ROM to a 1.2 bootloader ROM using CWM. Since CWM doesn't update the bootloader the new ROM can't load.
Honeycomb has a different data structure than everything else. If you want to flash into or flash out of a honeycomb rom, you need to follow my code red in the "start here" page of my website. Link in signature. Even experienced users will brick their gtab if they don't follow my instructions there.
The bootloader ROM i'm flashing from is 1.2 (I think). Before I flash, I do an NVflash 1.2. Then flash to the new ROM. I use CWM and have the NVflash setup where it automatically installs CWM.
My Kernel version is 2.6.32.9 so I'm pretty sure my stock bootloader ROM is 1.2, hence the NVram 1.2.
However, when I bought this tablet, it already had TNT Lite on it, so I really have no idea what the stock ROM was 1.1 or 1.2. I'm doing an NVflash 1.1 now and am going to try to flash Honeycomb Flashback. Fingers crossed.
goodintentions,
Problem solved because of your fantastic website. I really appreciate the hard work you put into it. When I looked at your ROM compatibility page and saw that TNT Lite was only compatible with 1.1, I new I had 1.1. So...I did a 1.1 NVflash and flashed GtabComb. I followed your instructions to the letter and it worked perfect. Man is Honeycomb nice.
I'll probably partition my SD card and upgrade to bootloader 1.2 so I can try BoS etc.
Thanks again. You rock!
tevamarc said:
goodintentions,
Problem solved because of your fantastic website. I really appreciate the hard work you put into it. When I looked at your ROM compatibility page and saw that TNT Lite was only compatible with 1.1, I new I had 1.1. So...I did a 1.1 NVflash and flashed GtabComb. I followed your instructions to the letter and it worked perfect. Man is Honeycomb nice.
I'll probably partition my SD card and upgrade to bootloader 1.2 so I can try BoS etc.
Thanks again. You rock!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just so you know, you don't have to stay with 1.1. You can nvflash to either branch. That's the purpose of nvflash, to allow you to jump branch the easy way. There's another way to jump branch, but I've decided that that way is a bit too risky for beginners and so I have not mentioned it at all.
You are indeed right. I did that and it works great. I've tried Illuminate, BoS, and Flashback. I found Flashback to be the most stable with very few lockups compared to the others.
Hi guys,
I just got G tablet and I am not realy happy with it (unable to watch youtube,can't install regular market etc), and since you guys are trusted I wanted to ask: Should I keep this tablet? I want to hear your option before I attempt to root it (wont be able to return then). Bottom line is, I was hoping to have something simular like my EVO but with bigger screen
f you think this is a keeper, please point me to some nice rom and if you have advice I would be happy to hear them.
As always, thank you XDA community
Try one of the froyo roms which includes full market. Download tegrazone from market and check out the thd games especially shadowgun! The devs are close to completing a honeycomb kernel which will give us full use of honeycomb. Give it a try you can always switch back to your original rom.
If your ok with the hardware and are just looking for a better ROM, then by all means keep the gTab. Stock on this device is unusable and a waste of time. You can always return the tablet after installing a custom rom. Just NVflash back to stock and your good to go.
Flashback is great for Honeycomb, but for pure speed and stability I would go with http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1084573
Installed ROM manager recovery and CyanogenMod 7 (which I don't like), but I am looking for something else. Tried to flash couple other rom's but get stuck at boot screen. As far I know it I am running 1.1 (no lock screen) and mentioned (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1084573) is for 1.2, right ?
So far I tried to run:
G_Harmonyv1.2
and some Vegan roms but no luck...
I do have backup of my stock rom.
Edit: I like this but get stuck on every attempt : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1236880
erik077 said:
Installed ROM manager recovery and CyanogenMod 7 (which I don't like), but I am looking for something else. Tried to flash couple other rom's but get stuck at boot screen. As far I know it I am running 1.1 (no lock screen) and mentioned (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1084573) is for 1.2, right ?
So far I tried to run:
G_Harmonyv1.2
and some Vegan roms but no luck...
I do have backup of my stock rom.
Edit: I like this but get stuck on every attempt : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1236880
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DONT USE ROM MANAGER. Only use nvflash, the original bootloader, or clockwork mod boot
loader. It would be wise to upgrade to 1.2 bootloader. You will not have hardware acceleration With a gingerbread or honeycomb roms. Just my opinion but I would try mountain laurel or brilliant colors and try the thd games.
I don't use ROM manager it just get installed with recovery. Finaly Vegan-Tab on it. Thankls guys, I will considered upgrade to 1.2
Hi,
Currently I have CM7 7.1.0.1-smb_a1002 Build GWK74 and I would like to upgrade my GTablet it to HoneyComb.
Which ROM is the friendliest to upgrade from CM7 (FlashBack, Bottle of Smoke, etc..)?
Do I have to go back to stock and then Flash HC or can I flash it directly from CWM and CM7? Flashing CM7 was very easy and the instructions I found for Honeycomb are super long and complicated :/
I found some tutorials but none of them make the reference flashing from CM7.
Any recommendation will be appreciated.
Cheers
I am using Flashback 10.3, i love it!!! you will have to be on bootloader 1.2.... nvflash to stock then flash Flashback.... the instructions are there for a reason, if you don't you might run into problems. do it right the first time and you will not be disappointed...
also it helps to learn to use nvflash! that is a must have knowledge in case of emergency.. it saved my but numerous times!
I'm also using Flashback 10.3 on my Gtab and also have Cyanogen 7.1 on another. Cyanogen seemed much easier to install and set up correctly, but I had to try out Honeycomb. I messed up the first try and had to redo it. It really isn't to long or complicated and goes pretty quickly if you have flashed roms before. Been running fast and stable for over 2 weeks now. Haven't tried any of the other Honeycomb roms so I can't compare for you.
On the Flashback 10.3 page is a copy of NVFlash that will flash you to the latest stock 1.2 build with CWM installed. From there make sure you read and follow ALL of the directions to install Flashback. For lots of useful (necessary) info about flashing roms and recovery Google search for "gtabfordummies".