Whose system is this? It doesn't have power yet because it didn't pass inspection. No fence around it either. The system is set up on a water tower. Is there any way to look at fcc to find out? I get good service at the site but I guess that doesn't mean much. I just was curious cause the system was so tiny.
no idea but how would anyone know ? could be anyone's
Its sprints.... lol searched the name on the box. That company only provides wimax 4g systems so...
Its a 4G antena setup. Wiki the company. Its a company similar to Clear with the production of WiMAX and TD-LTE networks. Its a toss up if its for Sprint customers or not. Unless theyve been contracted by Clear to provide WiMAX. Which I have not heard of. The systems are WiMAX and LTE backward compatible. Could it be Sprint's already testing backwards compat LTE and WiMAX or better yet providing both antena? This is an interesting find!
On the other hand, the company also produces GSM products so it might be AT&T's new LTE network.
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funeralplanner said:
Whose system is this? It doesn't have power yet because it didn't pass inspection. No fence around it either. The system is set up on a water tower. Is there any way to look at fcc to find out? I get good service at the site but I guess that doesn't mean much. I just was curious cause the system was so tiny.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://tinyurl.com/3e23bd3
On their website it doesn't look like they provide any lte solutions currently.
Just because the company specializes in WiMAX doesnt mean its automatically Sprint's. The city or town could be also contracting them out to provide a WiFi network for its residents. Small towns usually do this method if theyre not very well integrated with the cable networks.
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Lmao Zabalba!
Also, do some more digging on wiki and their website. Its their I just finished looking my self. Look under products.
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niftyguy239 said:
Its a 4G antena setup. Wiki the company. Its a company similar to Clear with the production of WiMAX and TD-LTE networks. Its a toss up if its for Sprint customers or not. Unless theyve been contracted by Clear to provide WiMAX. Which I have not heard of. The systems are WiMAX and LTE backward compatible. Could it be Sprint's already testing backwards compat LTE and WiMAX or better yet providing both antena? This is an interesting find!
On the other hand, the company also produces GSM products so it might be AT&T's new LTE network.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
niftyguy239 said:
Just because the company specializes in WiMAX doesnt mean its automatically Sprint's. The city or town could be also contracting them out to provide a WiFi network for its residents. Small towns usually do this method if theyre not very well integrated with the cable networks.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alvarion is a WiMax competitor to Clearwire/Sprint. Both Alvarion and Airspan sold WiMax subscriptions before Clearwire.
/thread
So then am I wrong to assume its anything but Sprints?
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niftyguy239 said:
So then am I wrong to assume its anything but Sprints?
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based off what the internet has to say, Alvarion and Clear/Sprint are not providing WiMax service together.
I'd be too tempted to pull some of those exposed wires.
That looks like a front for a Join Sprint/NATO missile silo.
DeMiNe0 said:
That looks like a front for a Join Sprint/NATO missile silo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed.. How better to disguise some of our world-wide arsenal than to put cell system stuff on it lol
Cool find though
I just went back by and there are trucks there with a 4s on them. I will stop and chat with them. I'm sure they will tell me who they are contracting for. And maybe they have nothing to do with that site. Can u search fcc licensing with an intersection? I'm in Greeville Oh.
Related
Included in the EVO 3D is SMR (Sprint's restructuring of the Nextel frequencies), it should be ready to actually do something late this year. It's possible we will see a push-to-talk solution for phones that support it, like the EVO 3D. No word on any SMR support for the Photon, but world capabilities will trump PTT for most folks.
Exciting time for Sprint!
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They are using the frequency to use as a 800mhz CDMA. Will PTT still be possible?
How will this make Sprint service better ?
Yes yes, basically the new sprint will eliminate 15000 towers and join the nextel frequency onto sprint. It will run as 1x Advanced. Ptt will be possible on the evo 3d, which is awesome
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DarkManX4lf said:
How will this make Sprint service better ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nextel and Sprint towers combined = better coverage and penetration.
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Whosdaman said:
Included in the EVO 3D is SMR (Sprint's restructuring of the Nextel frequencies), it should be ready to actually do something late this year. It's possible we will see a push-to-talk solution for phones that support it, like the EVO 3D. No word on any SMR support for the Photon, but world capabilities will trump PTT for most folks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
androidcentral said:
SMR (Sprint's restructuring of the Nextel frequencies) should be ready to actually do something late this year. It's possible we will see a push-to-talk solution for phones that support it, like the EVO 3D. No word on any SMR support for the Photon, but world capabilities will trump PTT for most folks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you just cut & pasting the androidcentral article? lol
You could at least include a link...
http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-evo-3d-and-motorola-photon-specs-comparison
I'd take better coverage and building penetration with the 800 mhz (or whatever the freq. is) anyday over a world phone.
Didn't most Nextel PTT phones have a dedicated button for it? Would they just have a software solution (like an app essentially) if it were to be used on something like the Evo 3D?
I don't care for the push to talk ....I just want better coverage.
Lol yeah I did copy and paste it. but who cares?
Anyways, yeah...from what it looks like voice and data and lte will all run on 800 m
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Whosdaman said:
Yes yes, basically the new sprint will eliminate 15000 towers and join the nextel frequency onto sprint. It will run as 1x Advanced. Ptt will be possible on the evo 3d, which is awesome
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although 800mhz has better distance and building penetration; eliminating towers isn't a good thing for the user. Less towers means less capacity and possibly worse coverage. Yes, 1 tower at 800 mhz can theoretically replace 2 at 1600 mhz, but I'd rather have the over lap, in coverage, and higher capacity.
Years ago ,when it was just Cingular and Bell Atlantic mobile running analog service, Cingular use to use less towers but they were twice the height of Bell Atlantic's towers in my area. Based on their coverage map, you'd think they had service in the same areas, but Cingular's service had tons of holes. I also use to get the fast busy when they were out of capacity. And even though Cingular was much cheaper, I went back to Bell Atlantic mobile as soon as my contract was over...
Sprint!!! Give me 800mhz and keep the existing towers too!!!
Whosdaman said:
Yes yes, basically the new sprint will eliminate 15000 towers and join the nextel frequency onto sprint. It will run as 1x Advanced. Ptt will be possible on the evo 3d, which is awesome
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes BUT the EVO3d lacks the necessary hardware to be able to do 1x advanced so even if they get that up this phone will NOT be able to take advantage of the voice+data at same time over CDMA which is unfortunate.
Will the evo 3d be lte ready or will it need some type or sim.card
Whosdaman said:
Lol yeah I did copy and paste it. but who cares?
Anyways, yeah...from what it looks like voice and data and lte will all run on 800 m
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
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crabjoe said:
Although 800mhz has better distance and building penetration; eliminating towers isn't a good thing for the user. Less towers means less capacity and possibly worse coverage. Yes, 1 tower at 800 mhz can theoretically replace 2 at 1600 mhz, but I'd rather have the over lap, in coverage, and higher capacity.
Years ago ,when it was just Cingular and Bell Atlantic mobile running analog service, Cingular use to use less towers but they were twice the height of Bell Atlantic's towers in my area. Based on their coverage map, you'd think they had service in the same areas, but Cingular's service had tons of holes. I also use to get the fast busy when they were out of capacity. And even though Cingular was much cheaper, I went back to Bell Atlantic mobile as soon as my contract was over...
Sprint!!! Give me 800mhz and keep the existing towers too!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also just it being lower MHz freq isn't necc going to make it better in the real world application alone. Hence VZ wanting to swap 700MHz spectrum for 1900MHz b/c of tower placement and buildout needs. HERE
There are many places where the higher spectrum is actually better than lower b/c of tower saturation that would occur and the point that the lower spectrum towers need to be further apart from one another. http://androidforums.com/2796729-post21.html
In general yes we will see huge advantage to the 800MHz band being used but mainly b/c the towers will be multimode and your phone will be able to connect across all freq picking the best depending on your location.
You guys have totally misunderstood everything. Nvm, I'll just wait til sprint makes the official announcement to explain everything
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Whosdaman said:
You guys have totally misunderstood everything. Nvm, I'll just wait til sprint makes the official announcement to explain everything
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's there to misunderstand? The article you copied pretty much spells everything out and re-hashes what most of us probably already knew from the FCC docs.
Whosdaman said:
You guys have totally misunderstood everything. Nvm, I'll just wait til sprint makes the official announcement to explain everything
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's ok some people are just never satisfied.
With Sprint being in the business for a long time I'm sure their engineers know more than the average users here.
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mwalt2 said:
What's there to misunderstand? The article you copied pretty much spells everything out and re-hashes what most of us probably already knew from the FCC docs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For one, they are eliminating 15000 towers because some of the nextel and sprint towers are right next to each other. every sprint tower will run 800 mhz, 1900 mhz, and 2.5 ghz, with voice data and 4g running on all three. Your phone will select the most that is the strongest depending on where you are at. So spectrum bandwidth and strength are not a factor, especially since sprint has the most spectrum out of all the carriers.
From what I have heard from my source, the lte testing for sprint has been clocked at 40 to 50 mb per second, faster then any test by verizon or att
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Whosdaman said:
For one, they are eliminating 15000 towers because some of the nextel and sprint towers are right next to each other. every sprint tower will run 800 mhz, 1900 mhz, and 2.5 ghz, with voice data and 4g running on all three. Your phone will select the most that is the strongest depending on where you are at. So spectrum bandwidth and strength are not a factor, especially since sprint has the most spectrum out of all the carriers.
From what I have heard from my source, the lte testing for sprint has been clocked at 40 to 50 mb per second, faster then any test by verizon or att
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont think I really missunderstood anything at all. I was more so just being a little more specific about the stuff so others dont get confused and assume b/c its cleared to work on the 800MHz band and with Network Vision upgrades that it doesn't mean the phone will do voice+data over CDMA. B/c the phone lacks the hardware to do CDMA Advanced so thats out of the question from what I've read and been told.
sgt. slaughter said:
Dont think I really missunderstood anything at all. I was more so just being a little more specific about the stuff so others dont get confused and assume b/c its cleared to work on the 800MHz band and with Network Vision upgrades that it doesn't mean the phone will do voice+data over CDMA. B/c the phone lacks the hardware to do CDMA Advanced so thats out of the question from what I've read and been told.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that's the case then Sprint must be assuming the 3D will be a legacy by the time the network is fully functional.
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Just got off phone with Motorola and they confirmed the Photon has a LTE chip installed! I called sprint and they said it didn't. Somebodies lying, my bet is sprint.
My guess is that the Motorola rep is confusing that for 4G in general. I highly doubt the Photon has LTE.
Now, I certainly wouldn't be disappointed if it does, but I imagine that would have been in the FCC certification.
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I bet Motorola is lying... Because they want you to buy their product.
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I highly doubt this, but my buddy works at the mobile division in Libertyville IL (My town! Woot woot Google! ) and he works on the development of the LED flash for all the phones cameras. Im sure he will have insight about this, ill post back what he says.
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i'm too lazy to search youtube, has anyone done a teardown of this phone yet? I mean its not magic, if there is a LTE chip inside you'd see it. Granted I'm not willing to doante my phone to such a process but I mean phones break, you'd think someone who broke their Photon had to have tore it apart by now to see its guts.
I doubt they would have added an expensive piece of hardware just for the heck of it. The fact that it isn't touted as a feature to"future proof" the phone leads me to assume it isn't there.
The build.prop in system has alot of refrences to an LTE radio...but then again it has quite a few refrences to VZW as well....
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27s said:
The build.prop in system has alot of refrences to an LTE radio...but then again it has quite a few refrences to VZW as well....
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They probably just took the Atrix, redid the outer shell, modified code to work with Sprint, then threw it on the shelf.
Overstew said:
They probably just took the Atrix, redid the outer shell, modified code to work with Sprint, then threw it on the shelf.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The hole in that thought is the matrix is on ATT(GSM) which is different from VZW in more ways then one.
The VZW references is due to the you can roam in VZW and a possible launch of the phone on VZW.
It seems that this phone has a lot of Q's surronding the radio freq's it uses so we are going to need to find a good tear down and look to that for answers.
Ok so in case people didn't know, LTE uses sim cards for the 4G. But it can't be in the photon, sprint wont have it for some time.
My buddy at Motorola replied to me "wimax". So I guess its not LTE ready and that moto rep is misunderstanding that sprints 4g is different. After all, this is the first moto android phone on sprint
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Who cares though...by the time Sprint uses LTE the MoPho will be obsolete and something different will be in your hands.....
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ORam78 said:
Who cares though...by the time Sprint uses LTE the MoPho will be obsolete and something different will be in your hands.....
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen to that
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What about us Sprint users roaming data using Verizon's LTE network. Now wouldn't that be sweet? Just dreaming out loud! lol
sub2k1 said:
i'm too lazy to search youtube, has anyone done a teardown of this phone yet? I mean its not magic, if there is a LTE chip inside you'd see it. Granted I'm not willing to doante my phone to such a process but I mean phones break, you'd think someone who broke their Photon had to have tore it apart by now to see its guts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://androidforums.com/motorola-photon-4g/398558-video-teardown-photon-4g.html
lcpl said:
http://androidforums.com/motorola-photon-4g/398558-video-teardown-photon-4g.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I can say is the Photon is Built like a brick shi%house
sslbaron said:
What about us Sprint users roaming data using Verizon's LTE network. Now wouldn't that be sweet? Just dreaming out loud! lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that's the case why aren't you on Verizon?
Plug the photon in and look in device manager, it has an LTE modem period. There is no argument here, find it for yourself. Sprint will have LTE but not for awhile, as for the Photon working on it, who knows, but I am damn sure that it is capable of it. If you are asking a Sprint Rep any questions about a phone, 97.38782% of them don't know much about them, yes there are a few who actually do their homework on each and every phone they come across but that is few and far between. ( And in case you work at Sprint and you are reading this, don't take it personal, I'm just saying that most reps sell phones, they don't study them and know them inside and out) As for Motorola, who knows, it all depends on who you talk to, but I would believe one of them over a random Sprint rep who 'sells' phones for a living, being that Motorola actually built the thing.
But all you really need to do is plug it in and look for yourself.
-DJ
Djspinister said:
Plug the photon in and look in device manager, it has an LTE modem period.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that is interesting indeed
It just might have a LTE radio. Maybe Sprint's plans are starting to show up in current and future phones? Here is an excerpt:
If Sprint were to tap into Clearwire’s LTE network it wouldn’t gain any additional coverage beyond its current 4G footprint. It would gain additional capacity, but it would come at a price. Since Clearwire’s LTE wouldn’t even cover existing WiMAX markets completely, Sprint will need to deploy dual-mode WiMAX and LTE devices. That’s already a tall order for device makers, but Clearwire is using an unpaired spectrum configuration for LTE, meaning Sprint will need LTE chips not only for Clearwire’s 2.5 GHz frequencies but in a time-division duplexing (TDD) mode that no other operator uses in the U.S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can read the whole article here: http://connectedplanetonline.com/3g4g/news/sprints-4g-predicament-0823/index.html
Maybe Sprint actually has a 4g plan?
Djspinister said:
Plug the photon in and look in device manager, it has an LTE modem period.
-DJ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There may be some logic to this from Moto perspective...
It 4g and it a world phone...it suports cdma and gsm...
But is it also the first "4g" "world phone"? having both wimax and LTE ?(you got the sim like verzion LTE phones need)
So for Moto one hardward build for all world markets...and would also make it one hell of a development phone for google android to test everything on
Would the EVO 3d and Samsung Galaxy 2 people crap if true....
A phone with all these radios cdma, gsm, wimax and LTE would be hacker heaven
Who knows could be source of unlocked 4g issues that just the Photon seem to have ... that bootstrap has an extra radio to set up
===One other thing I recall Sprints Touch pro 2 "world phone" was not certified for GSM by FCC for US so radios were not listed on FCC doc...but it had them
Other thing in all the Photon "tear down" ive seen...ive never seen the chips because of how the lable sits in the battey compartment covers the chips...you would need to destroy the phone to see
Wtf is this all about
http://www.wirelessgoodness.com/201...n-4g-android-smartphone-gets-a-fcc-tear-down/
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damn too bad low res pictures, cant see what kinda beceem chip it has, then we can finally put it to rest if it has lte or not
Blurry cam struck again
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I think I seen Bigfoot in the pics or was it a UFO. No wait it was the locness monster...lol
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GraphicDemon said:
Wtf is this all about
http://www.wirelessgoodness.com/201...n-4g-android-smartphone-gets-a-fcc-tear-down/
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice! I still know for a fact there's no LTE but whatever lol
Qualcomm processor? Holy crap this article is horrible.
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Here's the Pics. from the FCC's web site.
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas...ame=N&application_id=608952&fcc_id='IHDP56MD1
Exhibit 9 Internal Photos
which chip is supposedly the WIMAX chip?
Idk but interesting... Decided see news on our device n more bull****
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So does this give us any idea why moto had the internal photo's sealed until now?
Beats me lol but maybe theres more to this than they said...
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Well that was interesting...
kwazytazz said:
damn too bad low res pictures, cant see what kinda beceem chip it has, then we can finally put it to rest if it has lte or not
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has already been answered several times. No LTE on this device.
halfdriven said:
This has already been answered several times. No LTE on this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nothing has been answered but a pissing match. on both sides.
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cornelious2 said:
nothing has been answered but a pissing match. on both sides.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again....
Antenna Design:
The length of an antenna is critical to what frequencies it can receive. The higher the frequency the smaller the margin of error. So if Sprint LTE is going to sit on the 700MHz band, the Wimax antenna is useless. The only way for ANY Sprint phone to even pick up LTE is if LTE operates at the same frequency as wimax. This CANNOT be argued.
Chipset Design:
The ability to flash new firmware to have a radio accept a different network protocol is not impossible. It has been done in the past but has always been plagued with issues and end up where the radio has to be replaced. I have not seen any documentation from the phone manufacturers, chipset manufacturers, Sprint or the FCC to support that this will even be attempted. A change of this sort would require a submission to the FCC at a minimum.
Legal Issues:
In order to reassign the current wimax band to LTE would require that the current IEEE 802.16 standard be rewritten. Not only would this have to go through the FCC it would also have to be accepted by the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) on a global scale. Any change of this sort is highly improbable as it would require that millions of devices worldwide currently on 802.16 to be replaced.
There you go with your BS reality again...party pooper. Tinker ef'ing Bell will just toss some pixie dust, and we will have LTE.
Lokifish Marz said:
Again....
Antenna Design:
The length of an antenna is critical to what frequencies it can receive. The higher the frequency the smaller the margin of error. So if Sprint LTE is going to sit on the 700MHz band, the Wimax antenna is useless. The only way for ANY Sprint phone to even pick up LTE is if LTE operates at the same frequency as wimax. This CANNOT be argued.
Chipset Design:
The ability to flash new firmware to have a radio accept a different network protocol is not impossible. It has been done in the past but has always been plagued with issues and end up where the radio has to be replaced. I have not seen any documentation from the phone manufacturers, chipset manufacturers, Sprint or the FCC to support that this will even be attempted. A change of this sort would require a submission to the FCC at a minimum.
Legal Issues:
In order to reassign the current wimax band to LTE would require that the current IEEE 802.16 standard be rewritten. Not only would this have to go through the FCC it would also have to be accepted by the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) on a global scale. Any change of this sort is highly improbable as it would require that millions of devices worldwide currently on 802.16 to be replaced.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not really sure why LTE is so sought after on this device. It's not even live except in a few test markets. Most people likely won't even see a glimpse of LTE until much later this year at the earliest. By that time we should have a "photon 2" out that yes will likely have LTE support but more importantly a quad core Terga 3 processor. So yeah I'll keep my WiMax until they get some Terga 3 action out.
yea im holding onto my photon until the next lte moto comes out... after that ill prolly jump but for now im happy
cornelious2 said:
nothing has been answered but a pissing match. on both sides.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has no LTE capabilities, your response was just stupid.
halfdriven said:
It has no LTE capabilities, your response was just stupid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no one has documented proof on either end its all speculation on both sides. now people just shake off and let the thread die. Capable or not it probably wont happen.
Why does t Sprint just continue to build their wimax network? Merge or buyout clearwire and continue with what they already got?
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Dont even get me started
MikeyLee said:
Dont even get me started
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok just stay out of it then lol
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MikeyLee said:
Dont even get me started
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im with you. we beat this horse enough!
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because sprint has their own lte network? lightsquared was just a regional addon
Thanks, Shabbs! Yay, hopefully it gets LTE Approval, do you know if it has already?
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The point of lightsquared was to broadcast lte from satellites. Was essentially going to give them near 100% coverage in the us with the flip of a switch.
If they are out of the picture then we are back to getting 4g from towers which will take years. To build out.
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i read from some recent articles, Lightsquared has been stating a pretty solid argument (in my opinion) that the first test was purposely rigged, a board member on fcc or somethin was from a GPS company, they used old out dated gps devices that was being interfered with because of careless manufacturing (faulty design) fcc took it to courts/congress to help investigate while also redoing the testing of their network and gps interference
i probably left a lot out ill try to find links
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Sounded like a Bull**** deal
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Wimax is limited next to Lte
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Cltme89 said:
Wimax is limited next to Lte
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sprint is limited
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rruss said:
Why does t Sprint just continue to build their wimax network? Merge or buyout clearwire and continue with what they already got?
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha because Wimax blows and I would rather rely on Sprint to build out a 4G network than Clearwire to execute a 4G plan. We all know how Clearwire did with Wimax and lets just say its not complete. Also I would rather have Sprint on a 4G standard that is compliant to every other major carrier and follows the 3GPP standard and plus LTE is much better than Wimax.
Also I am tired of the 2.5 Ghz poor indoor penetration spectrum. I would rather have Sprint's 800 and 1900 Mhz spectrum for LTE and only rely on Clearwire for supplemental LTE capacity instead of relying entirely on Clearwire. I hope Clearwire succeeds and becomes really profitable because that just means that Sprint will be more profitable since it owns a 54% stake.
Maybe when clearwire is profitable they can begin to start expanding again but I don't see this happening until 2015-2016 at the very earliest but they need to focus on getting back into the black.
Light squared may be doomed but sprint still had clear. They are worth a hell of a lot more now since Verizon's huge priced spectrum buy a few months ago. They were set to be gobbled up by sprint but now the value of their spectrum is greater than sprints market cap. Having spent some time with a network engineer for clear, they aren't doing as bad as people think. Sprint will probably end up with much more spectrum than att has now for lte at least with their partnership. Clear will contract out bandwidth to many companies though. You have to remember that even Verizon is pretty limited and will face some problems as lte is more widely adopted. They have only about 10-15mhz of bandwidth.
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I know some roms fixed this but... Why did they have to? Is sprint embarrassed by their network so much they have to hide the 1x coverage? Or is htc lazy?
Either way I look at it as falsely informing or advertising in a way Sprint's network. I am surprised no one has taken them to court about it, but court costs a lot of money and they would put up a good fight...
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I would point the finger at Sprint. Although I'm pretty sure most phones on most carriers do it.
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No carrier wants people to think that they aren't getting 3G service. So I would, as stated above, blame that one on Sprint.
SoraX64 said:
No carrier wants people to think that they aren't getting 3G service. So I would, as stated above, blame that one on Sprint.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. AT&T did it with the iPhone. Even though it only uses their 3g network, it uses the latest 3g technology, so the phone will say 4g even though it does not use the true 4g LTE part of their network.
It's stupid. We all know that Sprint's network speeds consistently are subpar, but we stick with them based on price and having unlimited service.
I didn't realize every other carrier was guilty. It doesn't seem right though. Oh well.
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