We bugged the heck out of HTC to get them to give us a bootloader unlock. Now, let's bug them to give us kernel source!
Steps:
1) Go to HTC's Facebook page. If this is your first time, click on Like to like HTC's Facebook page - this is needed so that you can post on HTC's wall.
2) Post something on their wall asking for kernel source for the EVO 3D, EVO 4G, EVO Shift, and Sensation. If you don't know what to type or just want it made easy, copy/paste the following:
Please release the kernel source for the EVO 3D, EVO 4G, EVO Shift, and Sensation. I love HTC devices, but I would like them even more if we could get kernel source in a timely manner.
3) Go to Twitter and Tweet something @HTC. For another copy/paste option, use this:
@HTC Please release kernel source for EVO 3D, EVO 4G, Shift, and Sensation. #gplviolation
5) Post in this thread to keep it bumped near the top - make this as visible as possible!
5) Repeat as often as possible, but please do this at least once per day! Thanks!
FAQ:
Why are we doing this? Several reasons - but most of all, all Linux-based kernels are governed by the GPL - this basically means that anyone that takes a Linux kernel and modifies it and releases that software publicly must include a copy of the source code released at the same time. HTC is, by law, required to release their kernel source. Unfortunately, HTC usually waits 2-4 months to release.
What is kernel source? It's the actual source code needed to compile a kernel for our phones.
What is a kernel? Think of it as the core of the operating system (or the core of Android, if you will). It's what makes everything work and makes it all work together.
Why do we need kernel source? Kernel source is needed to make a solid kernel for AOSP ROMs like CyanogenMod and MIUI. It's also very useful for making all of the other custom kernels such as netarchy's kernels that were famous on the EVO 4G and for adding in extras like overclocking, undervolting, etc. Kernel source may also help us develop a method for obtaining our own S-OFF before HTC releases their unlocked bootloader.
What is the GPL? Click the link!
Please note that HTC is starting to play a little bit dirty by deleting some people's posts on Facebook. For the time being, please try to remain respectful when posting to give them less of a reason to delete. Thanks.
edited: a new canned response it looks like...
Thought this was funny from awhile back: http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/03/21/htc-0-linux-core-dev-1-htcs-delays-of-mandatory-android-kernel-releases-come-back-to-bite-it-in-the-rear/
Has anyone suggested HTC register here? http://www.linuxfoundation.org/programs/legal/compliance
it might be September before we get the bootloader unlocked... and who knows what kinda tricks they may pull. Without that, I'm not concerned about kernel source.
Bump.... Will do
Sent from my 6 shooter in 3D
Rippley05 said:
it might be September before we get the bootloader unlocked... and who knows what kinda tricks they may pull. Without that, I'm not concerned about kernel source.
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Click to collapse
I suppose you're welcome to wait for HTC to release their unlock, but that doesn't mean that we still can't unlock it ourselves - which would be easier if we had kernel source. Further, there's nothing stopping kernel developers from working on kernels before we have achieved S-OFF on our devices so that the kernels are ready when the devices are.
They aren't really breaking any laws, the GPL has plenty of wiggle room and loop holes in it.
Tons of companies never release the source code, even though they are supposed to.
I don't see the point in bugging them about it. They said they are going to do it, they just need more time. Don't be a dbag and hassle them about it. I used to work at customer care and all it did was piss off the staff when someone did this and we had to answer calls all day about some stupid stuff that wasn't released on its "release date", though one had never been made official. We came up with a script and would just read it back word for word anytime they asked. If they still asked questions after that, we just re-read the script until all their questions were answered.
I think its rude, annoying, and being a bad consumer. They have clearly said they are going to do it. Patience is a virtue. I'm sure they have a reason, most companies that aren't Apple listen to their customers, and when they say, hey we hear you, and we will do it, they usually mean it. Especially when its posted so publicly on their Twitter and Facebook.
So just chill, wait a little, and it'll be here. Bugging them probably won't speed up the people doing the work (because those doing the work, and those responding to your questions are 2 different people)
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
What's the point of having a kernel source with no s-off? Is rather have then unlock the bootloader first, by then they should be ready to release the source.
Sent from my EVO 3D using Tapatalk
fr0st420 said:
What's the point of having a kernel source with no s-off? Is rather have then unlock the bootloader first, by then they should be ready to release the source.
Sent from my EVO 3D using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15759458&postcount=5
fr0st420 said:
What's the point of having a kernel source with no s-off? Is rather have then unlock the bootloader first, by then they should be ready to release the source.
Sent from my EVO 3D using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
See two posts above yours.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
You all know there is still a lot you can do without s-off... it'll help the cause either way.
They aren't really breaking any laws, the GPL has plenty of wiggle room and loop holes in it.
Tons of companies never release the source code, even though they are supposed to.
I don't see the point in bugging them about it. They said they are going to do it, they just need more time. Don't be a dbag and hassle them about it. I used to work at customer care and all it did was piss off the staff when someone did this and we had to answer calls all day about some stupid stuff that wasn't released on its "release date", though one had never been made official. We came up with a script and would just read it back word for word anytime they asked. If they still asked questions after that, we just re-read the script until all their questions were answered.
I think its rude, annoying, and being a bad consumer. They have clearly said they are going to do it. Patience is a virtue. I'm sure they have a reason, most companies that aren't Apple listen to their customers, and when they say, hey we hear you, and we will do it, they usually mean it. Especially when its posted so publicly on their Twitter and Facebook.
So just chill, wait a little, and it'll be here. Bugging them probably won't speed up the people doing the work (because those doing the work, and those responding to your questions are 2 different people)
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
yeah, because that's exactly what HTC wants right now with Apple's lawsuit getting so much attention; the fact that they take advantage of the GNU and withhold the kernel source a good portion of a devices life cycle in order give themselves an unfair advantage. They may want to think about restaffing their legal team if that's the plan.
Keep the pressure on. If the S-OFF videos on YouTube for the Sensation are correct, then S-OFF will probably be released soon for our EVOs as well. We'll really want that kernel source ASAP!
Been pestering them for the source, they are being stubborn:
https://www.facebook.com/HTC/posts/10150371265543084?notif_t=feed_comment
I've also tried support e-mails and posting on Twitter every day, so far nothing.
Whenever I see these threads I always wonder, what will you guys ask for next? lol
We can ask for whatever we want. With enough pressure, maybe we'll get it. We'll get kernel source eventually no matter what, but it'd be nice to get it sooner rather than later.
Arbron said:
I think its rude, annoying, and being a bad consumer.
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Click to collapse
Are you serious? I mean are you serious? I live in a country that is run by faceless corporations and big business whose only reason for existence is to make sure they get every penny we make somehow. Wether it be 2gig caps or insurance hikes for no reason or a car that needs traded in because its falling apart at pay off. Or big business and churches donating politically to see that their best interests are met. And your gonna say be a good consumer. Go back to your phone and cubicle my friend. HTC along with every other company is making money hand over fist right now, based off of an open source product. They have the bootloader and kernel information in hand, there isnt anyone working on it, it exists already. Bad consumer
Up to the top. Please keep bugging HTC and keep bumping the thread so that it stays where people will see it!
Don't give up people... we really need kernel source to get the most out of our EVO 3Ds!!!
I agree, help out here guys. We won't get any decent vanilla roms or any good kernels without this, and s-off won't really matter.
I dont think a campaign, even in numbers, will achieve a faster delivery of bootloader or kernel source. HTC has a lot going on right now. Really.
With Apple's victory in the courtroom, I would imagine that the delay in the bootloader is re-writing some original source and incorporating the unlock as well... for numerous devices. They are likely working on source and unlock for other phones while conducting massive source re-write in order to keep HTC handsets coming to America.
Personally, I would rather see the delay of unlock longer than the death of HTC availability in the US...
Simply a statement. I would not undermine or put down anyone's attempts to acquire these things. I was just trying to facilitate a little understanding on HTC's behalf. And no, I do not work for them. ;-)
Hello,
I know many of us are quite disappointed with Apple's actions of late. It really seems since they went to Intel Chips on their Computers, they have sold their souls.
I think it would be more constructive to aim all of this energy at our displeasure with Apple as opposed to hammering HTC any further. The Bootloader will be Unlocked and with the capabilities of the Developers here, the full potential of these Phones will soon be unleashed.
Cheers,
JJ
Related
If you're not truly adept at hacking and/or finding exploits but you still want root, why not try and do something useful? Once per day take a few minutes to post on HTC's Facebook wall and/or Tweet @HTC and ask them for a timeframe on the unlocked bootloader. While you're at it, bug HTC to release kernel source for the EVO 3D and EVO 4G (kernel source will be critical for things like overclocking, undervolting, and porting AOSP ROMs like CM7 or MIUI to the EVO 3D).
Go to HTC's Facebook page. If you haven't Liked HTC yet, then click Like. Post on their wall asking for a timeframe for an unlocked bootloader AND for kernel source for the EVO 3D. Click on Like for your post and then go through and like every other post related to bootloaders.
Then head over to Twitter and tweet @HTC asking for the unlocked bootloader and kernel source.
I'll try to bump this thread once per day as a gentle reminder to continue the campaign. And finally, please try to keep your messages to HTC respectful!
For those that don't believe that rooted and/or unlocked phones are popular, then I invite you to look at this link. The #2 paid app is ROM Manager. Also in the list are other root-only apps like Root Explorer, SetCPU, and Titanium Backup. There are plenty of root users out there.
Id say go after sprint too. They could easily be the ones telling HTC to not unlock it. In the end they have the final approval anyway.
I have seen posts back and forth, all over the interwebs about "future" devices getting unlocked. Does that necessarily mean the 3VO is getting unlocked? It's all speculation at this point, but I was doing some scanning over HTC's facebook page and I did notice on post
"FYI.........all EVO 3D owners.
It seems we have been lied to. Apparently there was a contract in place for the EVO 3d to have a locked bootloader long before the CEO came out and said they would unlock future phones. So its looking like no matter what HTC is saying, they do not plan on unlocking the 3D. So its looking like the only way to truly voice your concerns is to return your devices now. There will be no unlocking of the 3D by HTC."
I asked the person who posted this on their Facebook page who the source was, and he claims he couldn't disclose due to obvious reason, which I think is bullsh*t to begin with, but I have asked if this person is a Sprint or HTC development employee. Those would be the only two people that would ever know such information.
Food for thought, I know it's all up in the air, but I'm tired of HTC just saying "it's coming soon" and "future devices" without actually saying "The EVO 3D is getting/isn't getting an unlocked bootloader."
Best option as of this point as the OP stated is to constantly ask on their different forms of Social Media. Sprint would also be good to question, due to they have the power to influence HTC to cook up something quicker.
Well %#[email protected]
It's pretty simple. ***** to them like the op mentioned. If they don't unlock the phone the ball is in your court. Either return it or sell the phone and get one that does. The only language companies speak is $$$
I don't have a 3D, but I would return it. Mass returns would carry a strong message.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
lil_bono said:
I don't have a 3D, but I would return it. Mass returns would carry a strong message.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
Considering the xda (specifically EVO3D and Sensation) community is a small part of a market, I doubt it would be in mass. Some are happy with the phone without root.
Zabalba said:
Considering the xda (specifically EVO3D and Sensation) community is a small part of a market, I doubt it would be in mass. Some are happy with the phone without root.
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Click to collapse
I do unfortunately agree with this. There are A LOT of people out there who aren't concerned with rooting their device. These would be the boring users of society would probably pay the $30 a month for tethering that us "excited" users refuse to pay for because we know we've had it for free before.
However, I do know a lot of guest come by XDA and are reading about the device being locked and not wanting to upgrade to the 3D. If you guys haven't seen HTCs Facebook wall or Twitter feed, they are getting slammed by everyone, which isn't a bad thing personally.
I really hope that post I read about not unlocking this device is just some guy screwing with us and this thing gets unlocked before July 21st.
Honestly, when HTC's CEO came out and said that they would be unlocking bootloaders, I was very surprised. The first thing that came to mind was the fact that unlocking likely isn't even entirely in HTC's court. There's likely a stipulation in one or more of HTC's contracts with Sprint and/or their 3rd party hardware and software providers that requires HTC to provide a certain level of security on their phones. Still, their CEO came out and said it. It's up to HTC to either live up to their promise or at the very least man up and admit that they made a mistake when they made that promise. IMHO, the fact that Motorola unlocked the Atrix 4G proves to me that something like this is possible.
I'm not sure I want to suggest that people return their phones over this issue, but a mess of returns at the end of July might be the best way to put our money where our mouths are.
For those that don't believe that rooted and/or unlocked phones are popular, then I invite you to look at this link. The #2 paid app is ROM Manager. Also in the list are other root-only apps like Root Explorer, SetCPU, and Titanium Backup. There are plenty of root users out there.
Dees_Troy said:
For those that don't believe that rooted and/or unlocked phones are popular, then I invite you to look at this link. The #2 paid app is ROM Manager. Also in the list are other root-only apps like Root Explorer, SetCPU, and Titanium Backup. There are plenty of root users out there.
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Click to collapse
That's the point I would have liked to make. Even though everyone who rooted their phone isn't a member on XDA or other EVO affiliated forums, doesn't mean they don't exist. That point you made about ROM manager being the #2 paid app is a mindset changer for me personally, as well as how many downloads Root Explorer, SetCPU, TB, and Terminal Emulator are accounted for. There are plenty of non-rooted users out there who could really care less about having root access. it's gotta be close to a 60/40 range, where ~40% of use are Rooted users.
Dees_Troy said:
If you're not truly adept at hacking and/or finding exploits but you still want root, why not try and do something useful? Once per day take a few minutes to post on HTC's Facebook wall and/or Tweet @HTC and ask them for a timeframe on the unlocked bootloader. While you're at it, bug HTC to release kernel source for the EVO 3D and EVO 4G (kernel source will be critical for things like overclocking, undervolting, and porting AOSP ROMs like CM7 or MIUI to the EVO 3D).
Go to HTC's Facebook page. If you haven't Liked HTC yet, then click Like. Post on their wall asking for a timeframe for an unlocked bootloader AND for kernel source for the EVO 3D. Click on Like for your post and then go through and like every other post related to bootloaders.
Then head over to Twitter and tweet @HTC asking for the unlocked bootloader and kernel source.
I'll try to bump this thread once per day as a gentle reminder to continue the campaign. And finally, please try to keep your messages to HTC respectful!
For those that don't believe that rooted and/or unlocked phones are popular, then I invite you to look at this link. The #2 paid app is ROM Manager. Also in the list are other root-only apps like Root Explorer, SetCPU, and Titanium Backup. There are plenty of root users out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*speculates whether HTC wiill release the unlock first or shutdown the Facebook page first.
I'm not really sure why people purchase these phones to NOT root them.
They have some nice "clamshell" phones that just do "phone" for those people. Leave the grown up phones to the grown ups.
To Root or not to Root.. no, there is NO question.
VoXHTC said:
I'm not really sure why people purchase these phones to NOT root them.
They have some nice "clamshell" phones that just do "phone" for those people. Leave the grown up phones to the grown ups.
To Root or not to Root.. no, there is NO question.
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Click to collapse
No need to root if a rich guy buys the phone purely to show off ( those my phone is better than yours/I am richer than you crap )
But if you really bought the phone for real use, I don't think a unrooted phone can get anywhere...
Up to the top! Keep bugging HTC!
Kernel source would really help with attaining S-OFF and permanent root. Please keep bugging HTC for both the unlocked bootloader and kernel source!
I emailed HTC support (and the contact form on htcdev.com) several times about releasing the source code. Whenever I contact customer support directly, they always say the same thing: "If you feel like it's important, please submit the request through htcdev.com and we will listen to it if we get enough requests" (that's the concise version).
So I know with ICS coming out, the current kernel source will be useless soon, but if people continue to request it, they'll be more likely to respond to it. I'm not holding my breath, but it's possible that eventually they will if they see enough people complaining about it.
Anyone been bugging HTC about it?
GPL requires that source be released for the modified binary (kernel), but because the modules are and can be compiled outside the kernel, they are not required to be open sourced. You can go get the kernel source right now. The chipset manufacturer might have an agreement with HTC that requires them to not publish their proprietary drivers, it might be completely out of HTC's control. Since you never specified that you wanted kernel module source code, but just "source code" in general, I'm guessing you didn't realize that they aren't required to give this. Also, don't encourage people to bug them to release something that isn't required.
Yes I have.. to no avail
Someone just started a thread in regards to them not allowing s-off and their response, I got the same response but they also responded to my kernel questions saying there are "proprietary" factors involved. I responded that it was dumb and they're losing the nerds to Samsung, the nerds who tell their friends what phones to buy. They said they'd take it into consideration. Ha.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA App
I understand there may be proprietary factors involved, and completely get it.
However, it seems strange and off-putting that their kernel source page does not list the Amaze (unless I am missing something, in which case it's totally my bad). At the same time I see almost every other phone HTC has made in recent memory...
I'm not trying to be ridiculous, but HTC does claim to be dev-friendly, and this phone clearly is not. It's also been out a while, and will probably be replaced as the top-end phone very soon, so who knows.
I don't mean to stir the pot or do things that are instigatory but on the other hand if HTC doesn't know there's a demand for something, they'll never do it (why would they?)
It's listed as "HTC Amaze 4G (TMOUS ) - GBCRC - 2.6.35 kernel source code" here:
http://dl4.htc.com/RomCode/Source_and_Binaries/ruby_GB-crc-2.6.35_19a3d1a.tar.gz
eliasadrian said:
I responded that it was dumb and they're losing the nerds to Samsung, the nerds who tell their friends what phones to buy. They said they'd take it into consideration. Ha.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Hahahaha, +1
eliasadrian said:
Someone just started a thread in regards to them not allowing s-off and their response, I got the same response but they also responded to my kernel questions saying there are "proprietary" factors involved. I responded that it was dumb and they're losing the nerds to Samsung, the nerds who tell their friends what phones to buy. They said they'd take it into consideration. Ha.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA App
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Click to collapse
haha +2, this is funny, maybe I should give them a call too!!! I bet if we started a thread for all the amaze owners to call HTC and complain they would get fed up and do something...but then again perhaps not!!!
Or we can just continue this thread...Please everyone call HTC and start bugging them!! tell them they can't compete agains the galaxy S II and they are losing a lot of customers to samsung for crippling development on this phone. they need to release the full kernel source and wifi drivers and give us S-off... Just a suggestion, you guys do whatever you want
oryan_dunn said:
It's listed as "HTC Amaze 4G (TMOUS ) - GBCRC - 2.6.35 kernel source code" here:
http://dl4.htc.com/RomCode/Source_and_Binaries/ruby_GB-crc-2.6.35_19a3d1a.tar.gz
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Click to collapse
Hm I didn't notice that, weird. Thanks though I'll check it out. I'd like to get into the kernel game.
According to Binary, there are about 30 partitions and they've only released the source to 5 of those, and one of them is partial boot.img that's why you cannot flash kernel via CWM.
This is what binary has said:
"The Android Open Source is available and the HTC Source Code is available but that only applies to the partitions that we have access to. Boot, data, system, cache. There are over 30 partitions and we don't even know what over half of them are! Many would be used to control the overall function of the device."
So we don't have the full source.
I don't think HTC has ever release full source for any device. They've release kernel source, sans any proprietary drivers. I doubt they'd ever release bootloader source, sense source, etc.
oryan_dunn said:
I don't think HTC has ever release full source for any device. They've release kernel source, sans any proprietary drivers. I doubt they'd ever release bootloader source, sense source, etc.
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Click to collapse
ya but kernel source would be huge if they did. so much for android open source. google should make it a rule that any company that releases an android phone must release full source to public...or else it is not a true android phone. lol
seansk said:
ya but kernel source would be huge if they did. so much for android open source. google should make it a rule that any company that releases an android phone must release full source to public...or else it is not a true android phone. lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I don't think you understand. A company can release a proprietary app on top of an open-source OS. Proprietary kernel modules are a gray area, as to whether or not it's a derived work of the kernel. They have to, by GPL, release any modified kernel source, which is what they give us. Granted, it's not everything, but at least it's something.
And Android is still open-sourced. Sense, is not.
Experience with HTC
So a few days ago I sent a comment to HTC about their lack of source for the necessary drivers, how that affects the user community, and arguably less important, the lack of S-OFF.
I got an email response that completely ignored the concern with drivers and focused entirely on how to unlock the device (which I had acknowledged in my previous email).
They asked for feedback on how I felt my issue was resolved and I responded that I was dissatisfied.
Today, someone called to follow up on the issue and I explained in greater detail my concerns and thoughts that being even more open would only help HTC. She told me that HTC takes these issues seriously, but there was a process to follow for HTC to recognize they need to make changes, and encouraged me to keep letting HTC know how I feel about things - So I would suggest that getting everyone on this forum to contact HTC might not be a bad thing, or perhaps a group petition outlining what is needed and why.
Also I did make another suggestion which she seemed to think was a very good idea, which is to have HTC formalize an open community development effort much like IBM did several years ago. What IBM did and I would like to see HTC do is set up a portal (of course XDA could be used right now for this) where software that is acknowledged to be in alpha or beta stages of development is made available to everyone who wants it, with the understanding there are no warranties about the usability or quality. The portal has issue tracking and direct interaction with the dev team that puts out the software. The idea is the people who use the software are the early adopter crowd and tend to be both knowledgeable, pretty intensive testers, and often are developers. HTC could get feed back, ideas, and likely even some development for no real cost and early adopters can get the latest and greatest software and a direct line of communication to the developers. If you think that is a good idea, I would also encourage you to let HTC know.
-Tony
We need to bug HTC to get what the people want. To do so, you can tweet them and email. Remember, be professional!
Twitter: @HTC and @HTCDev
Send them both tweets about releasing the source for the Amaze.
I tweeted Faux and he said this to me:
https://twitter.com/faux123/status/205121987000016896
Also, E-Mail them.
http://htcdev.com/contact
Tell them why we want it and how it will benefit us AND them.
Here is what I wrote:
HTC has made a promise to help to development community by releasing the source code as well as unlocking the bootloader for their devices. However, the TI WLAN source code has been withheld from the community. This slows development and can even cease development for the device completely. Without the source code, developers will have to develop blindly and hoping not to break anything in the process. The Amaze 4G has great potential due to his hardware and power that it harnesses. Android is an Open Source OS, but HTC is sounding more like Apple, holding their source from the public. People purchased the device to experience the "Real Feel" of Android by customizing it, installing Custom ROMs, tweaking it, etc. Without the WLAN source code, we, as a community, have starting to lose faith in HTC and some of us have even pledged to never purchase an HTC device again due to HTC's policies. The community will like for HTC to rethink their strategy and be "Open" with the community. The best form of advertisement is by "The Word-of-Mouth". When our community, the tech savvy and the owners of a smartphone, see how HTC listens to their customers requests, they will become more profitable and retain/gain new and loyal customers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Follow along my lines but don't copy and paste it. Be truthful to them. Open your mind/heart. Tell them why we want, why it will help, why it will help their image with consumers, how it can lead to more business and brand loyalty.
hasoon2000 said:
We need to bug HTC to get what the people want. To do so, you can tweet them and email. Remember, be professional!
Twitter: @HTC and @HTCDev
Send them both tweets about releasing the source for the Amaze.
I tweeted Faux and he said this to me:
https://twitter.com/faux123/status/205121987000016896
Also, E-Mail them.
http://htcdev.com/contact
Tell them why we want it and how it will benefit us AND them.
Here is what I wrote:
Follow along my lines but don't copy and paste it. Be truthful to them. Open your mind/heart. Tell them why we want, why it will help, why it will help their image with consumers, how it can leave to more business and brand loyalty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will do
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA
ı did it
HTC responded to me
Dear Odai,
I understand you would like to have certain source codes like the WLAN drivers to the development community. I realize that this information is of great importance to you. The only source code we have available is the full source code available on the HTC Developer website at http://htcdev.com. We do not currently have an option to send individual parts of the source code separately. Any parts of the kernel source code that are not included in the released source code on the website should be considered propriety and not available for release. Please visit http://htcdev.com/contact to leave comments about this feature. I thank you for sending your email to HTC today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My response to that
Since HTC is committed to helping the development community, hence HTCDev has been started, there have been a fair share of issues that is being withheld from us. There has been a lack of support for certain devices since new flagship phones have been released. For example, the HTC Amaze 4G is a device with great hardware, but HTC has not given us full support due to the face of the HTC One series being released. As a business student, I understand what is being done. HTC would like their new flagship phones to sell and give less support to older devices. However, we are being left out and since this is my first non-Nokia device, I feel betrayed by HTC already. I purchased the Amaze 4G due to its hardware and I know it can unleash its true potential, only with the help of HTC. However, this is not the case. There are devices with over 10 custom made kernels and how many does the Amaze have? Only one and that is for Gingerbread and it has slight modifications since the full source has not be released. This is a huge setback to us users. We have barely any type of custom ROMs. We have not AOSP (Android Open Source Project) ROMs since we need the full kernel source to even make a kernel that is compatible with AOSP ROMs.
The Sensation development is sky high booming with plenty of developers. As a developer for the HTC Amaze 4G, looking at the Sensation development is heart breaking. The Amaze is truly better, but yet has no support from those who created it. It is like leaving a baby in the street. You do not do that.
HTC needs to realize for those who purchase their devices and would like to retain loyalty to HTC, HTC needs to treat their customers back as well. Without us, HTC is nothing.
As I stated earlier, this is my first Non-Nokia device and I already feel betrayed by HTC. If HTC cannot fix their act and be committed to those purchase their devices, they will lose customers significantly.
There should be a way to release the full source to us HTC Amaze 4G owners by talking to other companies that have their hardware in the Amaze. If that cannot be done, this will be my first and last HTC device ever.
So do what you can and stay committed to your program for us HTC users. Without your support, we feel betrayed since the company is not living up to their word. For us, it is hypocrisy while you guys believe it is business. The best business is customer support. If customers are not given what they have been truly promised, HTC might as well just shut down or reallocate to another industry. Just my opinions and my response.
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Just in case anyone needs some ideas on what to write. As Hasoon has said, don't copy and paste, make it legit!
As I hope others before me have sent an email to you regarding the same topic, I as well am writing to you in regards to the TI WLAN source code for the amaze that you have yet to release. I have been loyal to the HTC brand since the touch, and felt that your move to the development communities has been terrific, and have become quite involved with the development community myself, and look forward to help developing the amaze to its full potential and to have full freedom over the device. I know that there has been at least one statement released already regarding the WLAN driver's release, and that it is proprietary, and if that is the case, I'd like to get some more information regarding that statement, if/when you plan on ever releasing it, and why it is proprietary to begin with. There are many other devices out there that HTC has been very co-operative with, but fail to see why with the Amaze, a device that the way I see it is still extremely capable yet now not the hot phone to have, especially with your ONE line out, so the release of the driver would make sense to me, but withholding the code now does not. I hope this email along with others I hope are being sent regarding the same issue will persuade HTC to be as open as possible with the developers out there and show us that HTC still stands by its position to be a 'developer friendly' company.
The TI drivers source code belongs to Texas Instruments. HTC only has license to use it. TI is more of the root of problems. This kind of problems have been existing in linux community for life. Developers have to reverse engineering most of the drivers.
Should we maybe write TI about it instead?
JonathanBarca10 said:
Should we maybe write TI about it instead?
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We can do both. We have to pressure both companies.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk 2
Does anybody know what TIs history is for something like this?
this is what i got back
Dear Xavier Veras,
Hello, Xavier, and thank you for contacting HTC regarding your concerns with the T-Mobile Amaze ICS kernel source code. I understand how important it is for you to have this information for your phone. As you stated in your email to us, you aren’t talking about the Gingerbread source code, but I would like to note that the source code for Gingerbread is available on our htcdev.com website. The ICS software for the Amaze is relatively new for us, having just released a couple months ago. It does take time for the code to be compiled and we aren’t trying to keep it from you or our other customers. Also, the Amaze does have Sense 3.6 when upgraded to ICS, as do all our devices, thus far, that have received the ICS update. Unfortunately, though it is available for customer use, we don’t support the htcdev.com website and do not know if or when the kernel source code for ICS will be released. I apprecate you contacting us with your concerns and thank you for being an HTC customer!
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EclipzeRemix said:
this is what i got back
Dear Xavier Veras,
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You can call bs on that.
One X source code is released.
Sensation Source code is released. ---> They got ICS 5 days after us
One V source code is released.
Respond back to them and tell them that. They are lying to the customers. How did other devices get it so quick when they say ICS is new?
You have to take the initiative.
hasoon2000 said:
You can call bs on that.
One X source code is released.
Sensation Source code is released. ---> They got ICS 5 days after us
One V source code is released.
Respond back to them and tell them that. They are lying to the customers. How did other devices get it so quick when they say ICS is new?
You have to take the initiative.
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I replied this
That is false, the HTC One X,S, and V all got there kernel source, so did the HTC Sensation with Sense 3.6, and we got our update 5 days apart. Not only that but the Amaze is always let down with everything, we still dont have a WiFi source either. Tell HTC to get their act straight because I'm very likely to but another phone from another company soon. We need this source, I paid 500 dollars for a phone that I don't completely own because of the missing source. Thank you for your time but something has to be done
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk 2
EclipzeRemix said:
I replied this
That is false, the HTC One X,S, and V all got there kernel source, so did the HTC Sensation with Sense 3.6, and we got our update 5 days apart. Not only that but the Amaze is always let down with everything, we still dont have a WiFi source either. Tell HTC to get their act straight because I'm very likely to but another phone from another company soon. We need this source, I paid 500 dollars for a phone that I don't completely own because of the missing source. Thank you for your time but something has to be done
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk 2
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You want to call them out. You have to tell them basically you know your facts and you aren't stupid. Companies think customers are stupid (for the most part, they are right.) But you do have to tell them you know your stuff. I'm still waiting for them to respond to my second response.
EDIT: Apparently I overlooked this and thought it was an automated message.
They said
I appreciate you getting back with us; and I thank you for your input concerning the availability of the kernel source codes for our Android devices. I hope you have a nice day.
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My response right now was
I would like a response to what I have said. HTC has released source codes for the One X, One V, Sensation BUT not the Amaze. The Sensation has received the ICS update 5 days before the Amaze and they have their source code released. You totally blew off my last response and reasons like this is why I am disappointed with HTC. I am not surprised that HTC is not a BBB accredited business. With the way they handle customers, they really should shut down. Take care of customers and then they will take care of you. You guys apparently don't believe in that and it shows.
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Just read this. Apparently HTC releases source codes between 90 - 120 days
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1682917
I got my reply,
Dear Andy,
Thank you for contacting HTC Andy! I apologize that we do not have any information on when/if that driver will be released. The best place to look for updates on that information would be the htcdev.com website or Facebook/Twitter. Thank you for being a loyal HTC customer. We appreciate your commitment. I hope that you have a great day!
So basically I'm emailing my cousin, or uncle, because I would've gotten the same reply from them! What a joke, time to turn it up a notch.
edit: reply
I feel as if my original question was not answered, I'm contacting the company regarding an issue about their product, and felt as though I was getting a reply from a third party or someone unfamiliar with their own products. I'm looking for answers for the Amaze TI WLAN driver, and am requesting the release, or the date of release for that driver. Other phones in your product lineup have had their full source codes released, phones released before and after the Amaze, and in the case of the sensation, mere days after receiving its ICS update. I'm sure there is somebody I could either write or speak with that would be able to answer my question, I, along with many others in the development community feel it would be in HTC's best interests to release the driver. You would be helping those in the development community fully explore their devices, and in turn improve your company image as a top phone manufacturer and developer friendly company.
HTC's reply:
Thank you for getting back in touch with me Andy. I’m sorry that there was some confusion in our last email. As I stated before, we do not have any information on if or when the drivers will be released. Proprietary drivers are created by HTC for use on our phones and we are not by law, required to release the drivers. The open source codes are on the htcdev.com website but any drivers created by HTC, are property of HTC and will be released if we choose. HTC is committed to giving their customers the best experience possible so your concerns and requests have been noted. I apologize that we do not have any further information on if/when the drivers will be released but please check for updates on the htcdev.com website and/or Facebook and/or Twitter. I thank you for being a loyal HTC customer and I hope that you have a great day!
Booooooo
Done - the minute I read your post, Thanks
---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 AM ----------
HTC's reply:
Thank you for getting back in touch with me Andy. I’m sorry that there was some confusion in our last email. As I stated before, we do not have any information on if or when the drivers will be released. Proprietary drivers are created by HTC for use on our phones and we are not by law, required to release the drivers. The open source codes are on the htcdev.com website but any drivers created by HTC, are property of HTC and will be released if we choose. HTC is committed to giving their customers the best experience possible so your concerns and requests have been noted. I apologize that we do not have any further information on if/when the drivers will be released but please check for updates on the htcdev.com website and/or Facebook and/or Twitter. I thank you for being a loyal HTC customer and I hope that you have a great day!
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Maybe they ripped off some other company's/persons source to create the Amaze - so cannot release it jk
The responded to my message.
I can definitely understand how the previous agent’s answer would make you upset. I’ll be glad to help you, Odai. By law, all that we are required to release is the kernel source code. HTC will release source code in accordance with any applicable open source license terms, i.e. GPL v2.0. Other source codes, which are not required to be disclosed by the open source license terms, unfortunately cannot be disclosed by HTC, as they may be proprietary to HTC or its licensor.
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My response
Samuel, thank you for responding. Danielle blew off my message and that is not great customer service. However, I see conflicting interests from messages I have been told as well as other. Some of the users have been told
"HTC will typically publish on http://developer.htc.com or htcdev.com the Kernel open source code for recently released devices as soon as possible. HTC will normally publish this within 90 to 120 days. This time frame is within the requirements of the open source community."
Also, "Hello, (name omitted), and thank you for contacting HTC regarding your concerns with the T-Mobile Amaze ICS kernel source code. I understand how important it is for you to have this information for your phone. As you stated in your email to us, you aren’t talking about the Gingerbread source code, but I would like to note that the source code for Gingerbread is available on our htcdev.com website. The ICS software for the Amaze is relatively new for us, having just released a couple months ago. It does take time for the code to be compiled and we aren’t trying to keep it from you or our other customers. Also, the Amaze does have Sense 3.6 when upgraded to ICS, as do all our devices, thus far, that have received the ICS update. Unfortunately, though it is available for customer use, we don’t support the htcdev.com website and do not know if or when the kernel source code for ICS will be released. I apprecate you contacting us with your concerns and thank you for being an HTC customer!"
Why are the messages all conflicting? Some say it is not required, some say you have to wait 90 - 120 days when devices, like the Sensation, received the source code within 2 weeks of the ICS release. The management is either terrible or the staff is not properly trained.
Do you see why we are not happy with HTC? High Tech Computers is what HTC stands for, correct? HTC is also looking to help out the development community, correct? The only company that TRULY believes in the development community is Samsung. They acknowledged the work at XDA-Developers.com and they see how important it is to get in touch with those who love to customize their devices. Without releasing the source code to use so we can take advantage of OUR devices, you'll end up with unsatisfied customers and you will lose loyal customers. As a first time owner of an HTC device, I am pretty mad that I can't truly take advantage of it. I worked for T-Mobile for a few years and sold many HTC and Samsung phones. I always saw the Samsung owners are able to have full and true control of their devices. It is not the same however, with HTC.
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Remember folks! TAKE INITIATIVE! CALL THEM OUT! TELL THEM WHAT OTHER COMPANIES ARE DOING! Be a man! lol
one more try:
There was no confusion with your first reply, I understand that HTC has no legal mandate to release anything it doesen't need to, so again, no confusion. What I am confused about is the reason the amaze driver has been held back, when other devices have had their full source codes released, and still there was no reason given as to why the WLAN driver can not be released. Other phone compaines out there like samsung seem to co-operate with developers better then HTC does, so its a shame that I can't get an answer for a simple question. And the reason provided, 'because we don't have to' isn't a good one, I'm sure there's a reason why, someone in the company must know something relating to this issue, and those in the development community are left in the dark on the topic. So no, there is no confusion regarding this topic, I fully understand HTC's stance on what is theirs and what is required by law, but considering your desire to be involved with development with HTCDEV.com, what I don't understand is why I can't get an answer that actually answers my question, a question directly relating to development. As you have said in the last reply I recieved, 'your concerns and requests have been noted', this lack of communication and understanding has also been noted by myself, and it will directly influence me on my next phone purchase.
Can I say progress?
Dear Odai,
Thanks for getting back to me, Odai. I’m honestly not sure why there is conflicting information. The first email that you quoted contains the correct information. The time frame that we generally release new kernels is 90 to 120 days. Though I don’t know why the Sensation’s source code was available so soon, there’s no reason I can see why the Amaze’s wouldn’t be released within the 90 to 120 time frame previously mentioned. Since the Amaze 4G is part of the bootloader unlock program, the latest source code will be posted to htcdev.com when available. Due to the inconsistency of the responses you’ve seen, I can definitely understand why you and others would be so unhappy. Personally, I’m going to do what I can to make sure this addressed and prevent conflicting and misinformation in the future. I agree with you that members of the developer community have the right to this information and only with that can they push their devices to the limit. If there’s anything else I can do for you, please let me know. Thanks again for taking the time to contact us and for being an HTC customer.
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My response
Samuel, I am glad that you have acknowledged the issues and the inconsistency in the messages we are given. I commend you for that.
As a Recognized Developer on XDA-Developers, as well as speaking on behalf of the Amaze 4G community, we would like HTC to work a deal with us. We need the source code, the full source code I should say, to help our development for the Amaze.
Reasons are as follows:
1. It will retain customer loyalty.
2. It will increase in sales/customer database.
3. Receiving a better name for the company.
I will explain how it will for each reason.
1. As I have stated, it will retain customer loyalty. When customers see the company taking care of them and fully addressing their issues, customers will be happy, even if the problem is not fixed. They see HTC cares and tries to do their best. HTC has well built all around devices and that is why customers continue purchasing HTC devices.
2. The sales number will increase. It may be a slight amount, but when customers enjoy their phones, they will continue purchasing the devices in the future. When I show my friends what my phone can do, it blows their mind. I have friends who purchase the phone I have because I show them what it can do and what their phones cannot do. Remember, the best advertisement is word-of-mouth.
3. A company should be a people company. HTC shows that they care about the development community by opening HTCDev. That is wonderful to see someone has been paying attention to us. Samsung does promotions specifically for XDA-Developers. They have truly recognized our community and they even hired a developer! HTC should see how big the customer base of XDA-Developers, CyanogenMod, RootzWiki and many other development websites/forums. When they show true interest in us, we will defend the company if someone speaks bad about it, etc.
All the reasons tie in with one another. Samuel, I believe you should pass our conversation along to the higher management. They should not blow our community off.
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Are you guys taking notes??
It's possible to write an email or something to HTC to relase the 3D camera drivers for the Evo 3D?
The Evo 3d's developement is gonna be dying,we don't want this
the old HD2 gets the new KitKat and they don't give up.I should we can do something together.I don't know who is capable to relase them drivers but I wanna ask they to do it.Maybe if we letter they it's possible to get the drivers
There is no polite way to say it, but if you email them, they will very politely say go f*ck yourself, we will not give you anything
With a big enough petition we MIGHT get them, but that has been tried before and none of them has gotten enough votes.
Sent from my Evo 3D GSM using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
1ackass said:
There is no polite way to say it, but if you email them, they will very politely say go f*ck yourself, we will not give you anything
With a big enough petition we MIGHT get them, but that has been tried before and none of them has gotten enough votes.
Sent from my Evo 3D GSM using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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so sad
Actually, there is a way to have alot of chances to archive it or making HTC really pi$$ed off with developer scene.
My idea was to start up a petition that is written in a way that will make HTC feel massive discomfort to the point they will be forced to give an effective answer to the issue, a good one or a really bad one
.
You need to break down the issues and the reason of this petition as this:
1. This petition is done because, while in vague theory they do, technicaly the company does not provide the full sources that can lead to proper builds and this is effectively a GPL violation. (Rough explanation but you get the point)
2. You need to make it clear that your demands have nothing to do with asking the company to bring out a software update to the device and that any such claim or excuse is out of topic.
3. You need to point out that if so many other companies did the right move and released to the public such stuff, even companies that released them after they got defunct, you don't see why HTC wouldn't do it, especialy at a period that their integrity in the market is on trial and their feedback, support and marketing are the key factors that will have the first and the last word if they will survive the pressure.
4. Also emphasize on the fact that since you don't ask actually for a software update which could take hours and money to develop, you don't see the reason why they wouldn't release the drivers for 3D features which is a thing that could take as much as 5 seconds to do so on their dev site.
I want to start a petition for it but people on XDA are really better on these stuff so I wait for someone else with more reputation and experience to do such thing, or atleast a person that I could work on it together. I hope also XDA would spread out the word after the petition is done such it would be a pretty intresting thing to see (apart from the results) in the Android ecosystem.
So anyone with me?
We tried for our desire to write to HTC (flooding in the end) to release camera drivers to have it properly working with ion, but they answered that they couldn't give US them because they are proprietary (not HTC)
paolo-red1 said:
We tried for our desire to write to HTC (flooding in the end) to release camera drivers to have it properly working with ion, but they answered that they couldn't give US them because they are proprietary (not HTC)
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That's a cheap excuse if that's true. They could give you info with who's is responsible for them. It was a tricky answer and to be honest, it wouldn't be the first time they lie about stuff like that, and unfortunately it seems like it wasn't and won't be the last, we are seeing a trend here that needs to end asap.
VIRGIN KLM said:
That's a cheap excuse if that's true. They could give you info with who's is responsible for them. It was a tricky answer and to be honest, it wouldn't be the first time they lie about stuff like that, and unfortunately it seems like it wasn't and won't be the last, we are seeing a trend here that needs to end asap.
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Yes I know, we expect that after the behavior they had with newer devices, after all desire is 3 years old.
hi guys as some of you know a few of us are trying to port various roms to the htc one max, however this is proving very difficult as we do not have the kernel source code which is the main thing stopping us. Recently i have tweeted at @HTCDev on twitter asking them if and when they plan to release them, and i figured that many voices are stronger than 1 so if lots of people tweet @HTCDev we might have a standing chance of getting them just an idea !
you might have seen the other thread from which involved emailing HTC about the same thing and we did not get much of response there.. we can surely do this, but don't know if that will help
@PradeepVizz 16s
@htcdev hello, when can we expect the kernel sources for the MAX to be available for downloads?
Expand
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Yo whaddup whaddup pradeep.... Yo so to everyone and all I'm back! Sorry I took a little holiday break from posting and what not lol.. So I officially went out and bought a brand new hefty solid state drive some new ram and a nice little dev box and installed my favorite Linny dis Fedora! It's all set up for strictly Android development and Android development only!!!!!!!!!! Anyone who is down to do some work with me for all variants I'm specifically Verizon but I'll work on all of them with you guys feel free to hit me up..
As for the kernel source I spoke directly to Shauna from HTCDev on the phone as she called me twice until she actually got me cuz I lol screen my calls and when realized it was her again I answered.. When anyone sends an email through HTCDev "tell us what you want" it goes directly to her, so we actually established a relationship haha.. She told me for every email I sent and for all the emails I encouraged you guys to send that she pings corporate. Corp then sends them the source and they go ahead and upload it. She basically told me not to expect anything until as early as January 2nd when they start coming back from vacation from the holidays.. So it is coming, they are fully aware that it needs to be posted and they are indeed working on it for us..
So yes like I said I'm ready to go so hit me up peeps.....
pradeepvizz said:
you might have seen the other thread from which involved emailing HTC about the same thing and we did not get much of response there.. we can surely do this, but don't know if that will help
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Murrda said:
Yo whaddup whaddup pradeep.... Yo so to everyone and all I'm back! Sorry I took a little holiday break from posting and what not lol.. So I officially went out and bought a brand new hefty solid state drive some new ram and a nice little dev box and installed my favorite Linny dis Fedora! It's all set up for strictly Android development and Android development only!!!!!!!!!! Anyone who is down to do some work with me for all variants I'm specifically Verizon but I'll work on all of them with you guys feel free to hit me up..
As for the kernel source I spoke directly to Shauna from HTCDev on the phone as she called me twice until she actually got me cuz I lol screen my calls and when realized it was her again I answered.. When anyone sends an email through HTCDev "tell us what you want" it goes directly to her, so we actually established a relationship haha.. She told me for every email I sent and for all the emails I encouraged you guys to send that she pings corporate. Corp then sends them the source and they go ahead and upload it. She basically told me not to expect anything until as early as January 2nd when they start coming back from vacation from the holidays.. So it is coming, they are fully aware that it needs to be posted and they are indeed working on it for us..
So yes like I said I'm ready to go so hit me up peeps.....
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welcome back mate! Hope you had a great vacation! Happy new year to you and everyone around!
Excited to know your dev setup, I have got virtual box for Ubuntu 12.10 ready for the same. Thanks for the update. I am no kernel dev but want to start kicking things and yeah got some great support from you and the other guys.
There was another dev who left the device a few days ago, not sure what the reason was
The worst part i suspect is going to be after KitKat Update, which is like about 1 month away and we need to repeat the waiting again for that :/
Thanks for update! keep rocking!!!
Well as long as we get some type of source and better it being 4.3 source I'm sure Flyhalf won't have to much of a problem building us a solid CM11 using this sources.. I believe its pretty much what he did with the original HTC One but this was also on Verizon which is what I'm on.. Either way we should hopefully be getting somewhere very soon!!
Sent a "Tell us what your Want" to HTCDev. Tracking # 3936471
I also have a case open with HTC dev
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Murrda said:
Yo whaddup whaddup pradeep.... Yo so to everyone and all I'm back! Sorry I took a little holiday break from posting and what not lol.. So I officially went out and bought a brand new hefty solid state drive some new ram and a nice little dev box and installed my favorite Linny dis Fedora! It's all set up for strictly Android development and Android development only!!!!!!!!!! Anyone who is down to do some work with me for all variants I'm specifically Verizon but I'll work on all of them with you guys feel free to hit me up..
As for the kernel source I spoke directly to Shauna from HTCDev on the phone as she called me twice until she actually got me cuz I lol screen my calls and when realized it was her again I answered.. When anyone sends an email through HTCDev "tell us what you want" it goes directly to her, so we actually established a relationship haha.. She told me for every email I sent and for all the emails I encouraged you guys to send that she pings corporate. Corp then sends them the source and they go ahead and upload it. She basically told me not to expect anything until as early as January 2nd when they start coming back from vacation from the holidays.. So it is coming, they are fully aware that it needs to be posted and they are indeed working on it for us..
So yes like I said I'm ready to go so hit me up peeps.....
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hey all! how have you been? the kernel source situation is getting a bit ridiculous! we are about to get the 4.4 update in a few weeks and still don't have the source code for 4.3, i can't imagine the wait we are going to have to go through for the 4.4 source code!
Yep. I have sent about 27 request to HTC Dev. The Answer is the same. "We have escalated your issue to Tier 2 for "Tracking".
I responded back saying.. I don't care about tracking.. I want to know when they will honor the GPL for release of the kernel.
The answer is "Sorry we do not have a ETA for the release of the kernel. Please keep an eye on our htcdev.com site and the sources will be posted there when released."
So I took to twitter and have been calling them out there asking for GPL compliance for the HTC One Max Kernel Source for both 4.3 now and 4.4 upon deployment.
Newest Email after I have been raising hell on twitter.
Dear Deadphoenix,
It is really nice to hear from you.
Deadphoenix, I totally understand what you are saying and in this case this situation, due to policies, needs to be handle by a higher department and that is why that I am asking you for your contact number, this will help me in order to pass this to the right department.
Please let me know this information and I will be more than glad to help you with this.
Have an amazing Wednesday, Deadphoenix.
Thanks for the effort mate
Here is my most recent email I sent to HTC Dev:
Hello,
From information I gathered from the Free Software Foundation (authors of the GPL) about this (as well as some other folks I know that have a better legal background than I), and I compiled the following information for you.
Brett Smith at the Free Software Foundation said, in response to your recent claims that the GPL provides for a delay: "HTC's reading is outrageous -- we honestly thought no respectable company would have the gall to publicly make this argument. A delay of 90-120 days is not reasonable, considering that they must already have the source code.". Clearly, then, the authors of the GPL did not intend for any provision for a delay to be present.
Other legally-trained acquaintances commented that allowing a delay there would easily lead to reductio ad absurdum -- i.e., if an arbitrary delay could be inserted in this contract (which HTC agreed to upon releasing the binary), then that would imply that an arbitrary delay could be inserted in any contract. In most legal cases, it has been shown that if something can be read as either being absurd or not being absurd, the not-absurd reading is the one legally taken.
You mentioned 3(b) of the GPL, which begins that you must "accompany [the binary distribution] with a written offer, valid for at least three years [...] a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code", and it seems that the second clause there -- "valid for at least three years" is the crux of it. Currently, the distribution does come with an offer, but the offer is not valid -- when I asked for the source code, HTC was unable to provide it for me, claiming instead that it would be given to me at an unspecified point in the future. This is not acceptable.
I note also that legal interpretations of a work tend to consider not just the strictly written details, but the intent; when details are in dispute, the overall intent is then referred to. The goal of the GNU GPL is to enhance the freedoms of anyone who receives the software, and to force one who might modify the software and distribute it for their own purposes to publish their changes back to the community. The GNU GPL does not have any provisions for temporarily withholding source for competitive or other reasons; the agreement that one must make when one distributes a binary is that one must also distribute source. Not doing so at the same time would be a violation, not just of the letter, but of the spirit of the contract; the goal of the GNU GPL is to enrich the freedoms of the commons through which software is distributed.
Given these four points -- the FSF's reading, the reductio ad absurdum, the letter of section 3(b) of the GPL, and the spirit of the GPL as a whole -- it is clear that the GPL requires that HTC release the source for the kernel at the same time or earlier than the binary. To that end, I request that you, within 24 hours, provide me with a link to the source for kernel of the HTC One Max 4.3 as well as the 4.4 Kernel upon release of the binary to the public.
It is clear from the reading and intention of the GPL that HTC is currently in violation of the GPL requirements of making the Kernel Source available. I have a cc'd copy of this message prepared for the media outlets as well in anticipation of HTC's denial again of the Source Code. If you are unable to assist me please escalate my message to the appropriate authority capable of making the decision to comply with GPL.
Sincerely and Seriously,
hopefully, somebody who reads and speaks english will get your email..
nicely worded!
:good::good:
wase4711 said:
hopefully, somebody who reads and speaks english will get your email..
nicely worded!
:good::good:
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mate, that email is quite old, dates back to days of EVO days - http://users.livejournal.com/joshua_/41833.html
but still a good effort by @DeadPhoenix to send HTC the email.
pradeepvizz said:
mate, that email is quite old, dates back to days of EVO days - http://users.livejournal.com/joshua_/41833.html
but still a good effort by @DeadPhoenix to send HTC the email.
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Yep. That's the source. I use it for my response to HTC when they reply that there is no set limit to release source.
sneaky....but hopefully effective!
wase4711 said:
sneaky....but hopefully effective!
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Supposedly someone from HTCDev Support Tier 2 is calling me today about a GPL discussion.
We shall see.
Don't forget to ask for 4.4 lol
DeadPhoenix said:
Supposedly someone from HTCDev Support Tier 2 is calling me today about a GPL discussion.
We shall see.
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Good luck with that sir. From everything I've ever heard about this, it seems that HTC thinks that a 60-120 day grace period is acceptable, and that's all there is to it.
By all means though, fight the good fight. I've just resigned myself to heckling their marketing team about it on Google +.
What you're doing is probably more "constructive" though...
Sent from my HTC6600LVW using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
belly of the beast said:
Good luck with that sir. From everything I've ever heard about this, it seems that HTC thinks that a 60-120 day grace period is acceptable, and that's all there is to it.
By all means though, fight the good fight. I've just resigned myself to heckling their marketing team about it on Google +.
What you're doing is probably more "constructive" though...
Sent from my HTC6600LVW using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Suprise... suprise they didn't call yet.