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Hello fellow members.
As a mod to this Forum, i have opened this thread to address issues faced by the users related to this sub-forum. No problems related to the device will be entertained in this thread.
all users are requested to put forward their issues in this thread and i shall look into it and do the best to put away with ne such issues.
cheers.
Currently I am going through each and every post of the android development sub-sub-forum..
i think i have to delete many posts and clean up a lot of the threads.
i'll do that as soon as i m over with going through the forum..
cvchetan said:
Currently I am going through each and every post of the android development sub-sub-forum..
i think i have to delete many posts and clean up a lot of the threads.
i'll do that as soon as i m over with going through the forum..
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Hi cvchetan,
to my opinion this is a not needed Sisyphean task.
You'd have to clean thousands of useless posts and flame wars.
The main Problem is, that there are lots of users that start threads again and again without using the forums search.
And: Some People cross post in wrong threads so that the threads go off topic very soon.
Also flaming and swearing against some people is a main problem.
(That's why most X10-Root-Devs gone private).
I'd say: from now, keeping the eyes open and moderate here and there, as you began recently, would be enough to keep this Kindergarten under control...
McKebapp said:
Hi cvchetan,
to my opinion this is a not needed Sisyphean task.
You'd have to clean thousands of useless posts and flame wars.
The main Problem is, that there are lots of users that start threads again and again without using the forums search.
And: Some People cross post in wrong threads so that the threads go off topic very soon.
Also flaming and swearing against some people is a main problem.
(That's why most X10-Root-Devs gone private).
I'd say: from now, keeping the eyes open and moderate here and there, as you began recently, would be enough to keep this Kindergarten under control...
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wel that is indeed a good idea...
but then we need to remove unwanted posts and threads so tht the threads become useful to any new members or visitors as they do not have to read through all unwanted data..
cvchetan said:
wel that is indeed a good idea...
but then we need to remove unwanted posts and threads so tht the threads become useful to any new members or visitors as they do not have to read through all unwanted data..
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What about just making the most useful one sticky, clean the waste out of them and close them?
So this ones would be the reference.
Within first post could a link to a discussion thread.
This behavior works very well over at gsmfreeboard.com .
My Idea: put all good guides into an own sub category "Guides".
These Guides should be closed. If there are any increments, these Posts / Threads could be opened for a short period of time.
They can be edited by the thread starter / poster anyways.
Then there should be a second sub category "Discussion on Guides", where common users can ask everything, regarding the posts.
I have a suggestion for a new sub-forum. Something along the lines of "X10 Café" where the discussions could be informal for more general ramblings about the X10. I hesitate to call it off-topic since the topic would be the X10. Think of it like a free-for-all with general decency rules, no flaming, no personal attacks but an otherwise open place where we can air grievances or just toss around ideas.
That way general can be more about news, events and so on while the speculation and what have you goes on in the Café. It would make keeping up with the forum a lot easier since it should be a place that you don't really "have" to read.
well i like both the ideas..
lemme consult with my fellow mods for futher actions..
Maybe you can stick a link to the Wiki X10 Page and edit this Wiki page to add links to useful posts in the forum ?
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=SonyEricssonXperiaX10
imo this forums needs some temp/permanent banning, plain and simple. I read threads here every day since I have the x10, and I have to agree with many people here, some users just don't understand patience, don't understand how to use the search options and then they have to cry out loud for something they want now but they cannot provide any help so they keep posting useless replies in every 'used to be' useful threads.
The 'Café' kind of forum is a nice idea too, to me it sounds a lot like the general discussion forum but still, the mods should do anything to keep the good discussions going.
Going back to the dark lurking around, WAITING for the good stuff without acting like a 12yo, and I'll give some money for the hard work, whatever i can give, until then keep up the good work guys
I started reading on XDA since 2 weeks when I bought my first droid phone (the X10 obviously ). This is my first post though because for every question I had i was able to find the answer in the forums.
The real PITA was when I started reading the rooting and custom rom dev threads where seriously 80% of the posters are either off topic, flaming or simply asking questions that already have been asked AND answered earlier.
As previous poster said I wouldn't mind that mods would apply temp bans to flamers and off topic poster or even perm bans when people continue to do so.
I did read in another x10 subforum that there was a X10 mod appointed (dunno if there are more than one), but unfortunately haven't seen much of that person specifically on those rooting and rom dev threads where they would have been most wanted.
It is nice to see that you are now taking the time to get something constructive going on. Regarding current topics it probably will be too much effort cleaning those up so it might be better to simply close those topics, start new ones and apply some stricter modding on those (including the temp/perm bans).
I sure would love to see the x10 devs coming back to these forums to discuss there progress on the X10 rooting for example, but they won't unless something is really done against these unnecesarry flaming/off topic/unnecesarry questions posts.
Regards,
Stephan
PS as soon as I have something in my paypal account again I will donate something towards this forum for the good work you guys are doing
we are too many, so dont blame anybody... things are like they're
FRiKiNFRoG said:
imo this forums needs some temp/permanent banning, plain and simple. I read threads here every day since I have the x10, and I have to agree with many people here, some users just don't understand patience, don't understand how to use the search options and then they have to cry out loud for something they want now but they cannot provide any help so they keep posting useless replies in every 'used to be' useful threads.
The 'Café' kind of forum is a nice idea too, to me it sounds a lot like the general discussion forum but still, the mods should do anything to keep the good discussions going.
Going back to the dark lurking around, WAITING for the good stuff without acting like a 12yo, and I'll give some money for the hard work, whatever i can give, until then keep up the good work guys
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+1 here also i feel that you are talking about me
guys.. what i see here is that you people are posting suggestions rather than problems.
regarding feelings abt hoss_n2, this is what i analysed.
Hoss_n2 seems to be clean at heart and intentions but the wording he uses are kinda direct and might make sumone feel he is demanding. but guys as long as intentions are not wrong no need to attack him..
more over by pointing out that hoss_n2 is doing this, this and bla bla you people too are flaming and remember these forum rules apply to you aswell..
so please keep your calm and help people rather than critisize them.
on the rooting forum i will be deleting all the posts not related to rooting..
cheers..
cvchetan said:
guys.. what i see here is that you people are posting suggestions rather than problems.
regarding feelings abt hoss_n2, this is what i analysed.
Hoss_n2 seems to be clean at heart and intentions but the wording he uses are kinda direct and might make sumone feel he is demanding. but guys as long as intentions are not wrong no need to attack him..
more over by pointing out that hoss_n2 is doing this, this and bla bla you people too are flaming and remember these forum rules apply to you aswell..
so please keep your calm and help people rather than critisize them.
on the rooting forum i will be deleting all the posts not related to rooting..
cheers..
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thanks allot you are the only one here that understands me right . may be i cannot say what i really mean with writing as english is not my main language , but they don't give me any chance . sorry for going out of topic but i wanted to illustrate my point . good luck cleaning
I'm not pointing at anyone in particular as I only read threads and rarely look at who posted. My point wasn't to accuse anyone. But warning to off topics and complainers should be sent, failing to change their behavior should lead to more action.
Yes these are more suggestions than issues we have, but I think most of the people know what are the issues. The main one being 'talking in a thread about anything'. Most of the useful threads have a self-explanatory title, reading the original post usually tells a user where he wants to go with the thread he created.
I know some might 'sound' harsh or rude but personally I don't really mind that as long as it does not become a flaming war/troll feeding discussion. But keeping a discussion on the right direction is probably the most important thing in such a huge forum. Then the search tool comes handy when the discussion is going one way.
Warning/temp/perm banning. Sending public message to people saying 'please stop' is not going to work. A temp ban with a nice message included stating what he did wrong should be effective in most cases. Failing to comply after 'x' warnings/temp ban, bye bye we do not need you (They can still read threads, they'll just stop posting what devs don't need).
I'm not pissed or angry at anyone, I'm just one of those people who thinks that moderation is important. The easier/cleaner it is for everyone, the faster we'll get the good news/progress. This site is one big community, let's make it look good/the best there is.
well.. right now m cleaning up threads and rest assured that all off topic posts, flames wars will be stopped from now on..
lets get ourselves together and make this forum productive..
cheers
Maybe issue warning on some fanatic on this forum, some people are extremely rude for no reason, acting like their keyboard and mouse give them God like power.
Realize lots of people have limited knowledge and are trying to get some information. When you see the reaction of some user…bashing on them saying search first idiot there a post about it .Maybe you should realize some of them just don’t know what they have to search. Why not just point them in the proper direction and help them , it would make this forum way more attractive.
Cnrl said:
Maybe issue warning on some fanatic on this forum, some people are extremely rude for no reason, acting like their keyboard and mouse give them God like power.
Realize lots of people have limited knowledge and are trying to get some information. When you see the reaction of some user…bashing on them saying search first idiot there a post about it .Maybe you should realize some of them just don’t know what they have to search. Why not just point them in the proper direction and help them , it would make this forum way more attractive.
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you are right i see this usless replies not only here but on all forums ,why don't he just tell the answer ,new members don't think about search they are still new when i was juinor member i faced allot of these replies . if any body don't want to help just don't reply
Pointing the right direction if you can yes, not answering like an a**hole to a newcomer yes. But there is nothing wrong about telling them politely to search, we might know there is a thread on a subject, but pointing them to the right direction is also searching for them in some/most cases. All forums work pretty much the same, joining one means learning how to use it/navigate it.
Search is the biggest tool there is on the internet. This is how you find what you want, this is how you find answers. Internet is full of it. The faster you start, the more stuff you'll get out of it.
BTW: Answering like a a**hole to a newcomer is also worthy of warnings and ban. It's part of the issue too.
I'm all about common sense.
You can generally class users in 3 categories. The devs, the supporters, and the noobs. The devs are resourceful enough to not care, because they'll always find a way to get things done. The supporters have kinda a clue about what's going on, and are always trying to enforce rules to keep the noobs in order. The noobs almost always assume a hierarchy of power, try to suck up, seek attention, and post ridiculous amounts of crap to get out of trouble/sound smart/kiss ass.
So understanding this dynamics, devs really don't care about flaming and junk, they just want to get product out. Supporters need to learn to refrain, not feed the troll and stop thinking they are better than noobs. Noobs usually just chat amongst themselves if left alone, and are mostly harmless.
The only thing that need to happen here is a set of clear guidelines for noobs to read about when to post, where to post, and when not to post. Also, clean up the place from its state now so people don't get the idea that it's okay to post crap. Maybe a reminder (after submission of a post) for users with low post count to remind them useless junk are indeed useless and bin-worthy.
As was announced last week, Operation:Iron Fist is in full effect. Read about it here.
With that being said, the following will begin to happen:
1. All non-development threads started in the Development section will be moved to the appropriate section and/or closed and the "responsible" poster (in quotes because the fact they posted in the wrong section clearly brings into question whether or not they are responsible) will be infracted.
2. Any abusive posts directed at any user will be deleted and the abuser will be infracted and/or given a temporary vacation. Multiple instances will result in a longer leave-of-absence, and if it continues you will be removed from XDA. You, and your behavior, are not welcome at XDA.
3. Any off-topic posts in the Development section threads will be deleted. These are non-helpful, and certainly not development posts. This includes the following:
"OMG THIS IS SO GREAT!"
"WOW! YOU ROCK AND I WANT TO HAVE YOUR BABIES!"
"THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER!"
"THANKS FOR THIS!"
If you want to thank someone for their work, do so by clicking the "THANKS" button on their post.
4. Any post, in any section, that is done to further post count will be deleted and you will face possible infraction.
5. Anything else that goes against the XDA Forum Rules and XDA Mantra will be dealt with firmly, but fairly.
masterfred said:
Omg this is so great!
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This is a perfect example of the type of boneheaded comment that does nothing but clutter the thread. LET THIS BE A LESSON TO YOU ALL!
thebadfrog said:
I think someone just got the "Iron Fist"
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Why thank you evil amphibian. But slightly off-topic........ You can hit thanks instead.
Chezbel said:
How about posts that say "#199 is up"? I'm pretty sure people that are seriously involved in a dev thread know how to monitor nightly builds...
Sent from my abucus
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Another great example. Something that shouldn't need to be posted, especially since the OP should have posted a link to where to monitor new releases. Unless you're trying to count with the abacus - then that makes sense. People might want to know how high you can count.
blader3759 said:
Omg thank you i wanna have your baby
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Hmm - going to decline - but I can think of a few other users who might oblige you.
blader3759 said:
Oh settle down cry baby!
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This is a perfect example of a post that would get you an infraction in any thread. XDA will not tolerate this behavior. Now knowing that this user that has been with XDA for 3 years is only seeking to provide an example of what NOT to do, it may be duly noted that this would earn a nice 5 point infraction or even a nice vacation from XDA.
I think someone just got the "Iron Fist"
This thread isn't a Development thread, it should be moved to General.
Nah, seriously now - this was needed a long time ago! Hopefully it's kept to.
This is not a complaint, but asking for clarification. i would like to ask a few questions..I read your iron fist policy and this post is not in any violation.
I read the comments on roms to see if I would like to download a rom. And if I see a positive comment then I might consider downloading it. If i get the policy of iron fist correctly, a post such as
Thanks, smooth and fast. Keep up good work.
The above little post is grounds for disiplinary actions? It tells me somebody else thought it was favored, smooth and quick. A thank you does not tell tell us the reader, how in the heck a rom operates. I will then go into a thread, and see only stuff that does not work, since any positive feedback does not represent development issues but bug posting represents development issues. How in the heck do we then tell the developer our views without getting in trouble. I understand the main issue of cracking down on trolls and flames, but in all honesty, iron fist should be called iron wall becuase we now have censorship on on a so called open forum. If i where to say to xyz developer anything positive to give him kudos and some words of encouragement which is just as valuable as anything else, we are not allowed. Since being positive and giving support to a developer does not matter in a personal and friendly way, when only a thank you button. These developers need positive feedback also..
life64x said:
This is not a complaint, but asking for clarification. i would like to ask a few questions..I read your iron fist policy and this post is not in any violation.
I read the comments on roms to see if I would like to download a rom. And if I see a positive comment then I might consider downloading it. If i get the policy of iron fist correctly, a post such as
Thanks, smooth and fast. Keep up good work.
The above little post is grounds for disiplinary actions? It tells me somebody else thought it was favored, smooth and quick. A thank you does not tell tell us the reader, how in the heck a rom operates. I will then go into a thread, and see only stuff that does not work, since any positive feedback does not represent development issues but bug posting represents development issues. How in the heck do we then tell the developer our views without getting in trouble. I understand the main issue of cracking down on trolls and flames, but in all honesty, iron fist should be called iron wall becuase we now have censorship on on a so called open forum. If i where to say to xyz developer anything positive to give him kudos and some words of encouragement which is just as valuable as anything else, we are not allowed. Since being positive and giving support to a developer does not matter in a personal and friendly way, when only a thank you button. These developers need positive feedback also..
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This is not an open forum. Trying to keep the development threads clear of pointless posts is not censorship. Post in general if you want to post "OMG.....I want to marry you". The devs themselves are the ones who want the development threads kept cleaned up. They don't want to sift through 10 pages of posts telling them what a god they are to find the 1 post post that tells them that "X" doesnt seem to work when doing "Y". Most of the ASUS devs are on Freenode IRC (#asus-transformer) everyday. Jump on and tell them in person as long as they aren't actually helping someone. Most say "Thanks" and tell you to hit the "Thanks" on their thread. They don't say "Please post another 'I wanna have your baby' post in my thread"
When a thread reaches 1000 posts and 900 of them are "Thanks to you I can solve world hunger now", no dev is gonna wanna waste his time trying to find the bugs people find. The devs time is better used deving and not digging.
This is xdadevelopers not xdacustomerservice or xdaiwannahaveyourbaby. The developers run the show and make our devices so much more fun to use. So let them dev
Both sides have a valid point. There must be a way to satisfy both needs. Perhaps the design of the "general forum" needs to be updated to adapt to the changing needs of the online community. Remember, both sides have the same goal.
Putzy said:
This thread isn't a Development thread, it should be moved to General.
Nah, seriously now - this was needed a long time ago! Hopefully it's kept to.
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You are correct - it was my mistake, as I replied to the wrong post.
See, the moderators are not above admitting our mistakes - you just don't see it very often!
life64x said:
This is not a complaint, but asking for clarification. i would like to ask a few questions..I read your iron fist policy and this post is not in any violation.
I read the comments on roms to see if I would like to download a rom. And if I see a positive comment then I might consider downloading it. If i get the policy of iron fist correctly, a post such as
Thanks, smooth and fast. Keep up good work.
The above little post is grounds for disiplinary actions? It tells me somebody else thought it was favored, smooth and quick. A thank you does not tell tell us the reader, how in the heck a rom operates. I will then go into a thread, and see only stuff that does not work, since any positive feedback does not represent development issues but bug posting represents development issues. How in the heck do we then tell the developer our views without getting in trouble. I understand the main issue of cracking down on trolls and flames, but in all honesty, iron fist should be called iron wall becuase we now have censorship on on a so called open forum. If i where to say to xyz developer anything positive to give him kudos and some words of encouragement which is just as valuable as anything else, we are not allowed. Since being positive and giving support to a developer does not matter in a personal and friendly way, when only a thank you button. These developers need positive feedback also..
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Here's where you miss the point. See below to clear this up:
zelendel said:
XDA is a developers site
XDA is a free forum you are ALLOWED to use. We could make it invite only
XDA is and always will be about the developers. And before you say without the users there would be no XDA, Bull****, who do you think used the stuff before normal people even knew what a smartphone was......wait for it.........other developers. People that could give good feedback with relavent info. Not just "dahhh this is broken, please fix".
XDA is not a place to come and make your phone cool.
XDA is not the cool place for idiots to hang out.
XDA is not your friends house
XDA is not a democracy
XDA is not a place to make Money.
XDA IS a place to come to learn and share your knowledge. If you are not here for those reasons then you are here for the wrong ones.
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Brush up on the XDA Mantra and understand what XDA is about.
In the Development threads, post only what is relevant to development - and "HEY! I flashed XYZ and it works great! You're the best!" is NOT relevant for discussion. End of story.
Hitting THANKS "should" be an indicator to someone that the development project in question is like. But, even so - this isn't really for the users. The developers post their work to share, but do so for themselves not you. Anything you do is at your own risk.
u170who said:
Both sides have a valid point. There must be a way to satisfy both needs. Perhaps the design of the "general forum" needs to be updated to adapt to the changing needs of the online community. Remember, both sides have the same goal.
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XDA is about developers (READ: XDA-DEVELOPERS) not users. We exist to facilitate development - not support. So the rules in place are for Development.
Read the XDA Mantra and this post above
you can see how many users pressed thanks, so if a post has 50 thanks that's way better than sifting through 50 OMGs
Sent from my abucus
You make your point...I had to ask, a part of me was dying to know..
life64x said:
You make your point...I had to ask, a part of me was dying to know..
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And thank you for asking. Now you no longer need to be dying.
Thank you for this. Will this also apply to people who ask the same questions that have already been answered in the thread?
Possibly the most annoying thing is perusing through pages of threads to see the same question asked and repeatedly answered. The one that comes to mind currently is the screen dim on the options window and the circle pointer. It seems like those questions get asked and answered on nearly every page of the Prime 1.7 thread.
phree1 said:
Thank you for this. Will this also apply to people who ask the same questions that have already been answered in the thread?
Possibly the most annoying thing is perusing through pages of threads to see the same question asked and repeatedly answered. The one that comes to mind currently is the screen dim on the options window and the circle pointer. It seems like those questions get asked and answered on nearly every page of the Prime 1.7 thread.
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This does apply - though it is harder to enforce meaning the community needs to assist the moderators in addressing these issues. You can report these posts and we can address them as they come in. We are also working on fixing our RP system.
jerdog said:
We are also working on fixing our RP system.
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Making it easier to report posts, you mean? That would definitely be a good improvement; I went to report a post using abusive language a few days back, and ended up not doing because I didn't have time at that moment to jump through hoops with finding out who to contact, then typing a message to them. I doubt I'm alone in skipping doing so.
If reporting a post was as easy as leaving thanks, I bet a lot more folks would be helping the mods. In fact, a two-click system might be nice. Slightly more complicated than the thanks button, but it would also help the mods prioritize which reports to check. The site visitor could click report, then click the type of issue they're reporting (abusive language, off-topic, post in wrong section, requesting warez, whatever). Then the mod's queue of posts to check sorts the most severe infractions (asking for warez, foul language, etc.) above lesser ones (off-topic, posting in wrong section, etc.)
Something else that might be helpful to mods would be for the system to automatically track how many reports any given member has made, and what percentage have been incorrectly reported. Members with a lot of false positives could sort to the bottom of the mod's queue, and members who reliably report bad posts could filter to the top for prompt action... Something like that might also be helpful when XDA was looking for new mods to help with the site -- the folks who did the most positive reporting might prove to be good candidates for new moderators.
It may be a stupid idea - but could you give thread creators moderation privileges in their own threads, even if it is only in development?
Putzy said:
It may be a stupid idea - but could you give thread creators moderation privileges in their own threads, even if it is only in development?
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Not something that can happen. Recognized Developers can open/close their own threads - but moderation pieces of deleting posts, etc. just can't happen. But thanks for the thought and idea.
How about the developer create a thread in Development section and called it "ABC - Bug Report" and another thread in General called "ABC - Discussion".
joking said:
How about the developer create a thread in Development section and called it "ABC - Bug Report" and another thread in General called "ABC - Discussion".
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The way to handle this, and what I am working on implementing but takes awhile, is to have the Developer post a thread in Q&A for that dev work and then all bugs, etc. are in the actual development thread.
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
Get your flame suit on cause you're about to get toasted for this thread.
But I agree with you. I'm kinda tired of the attitude here but this has been my home for 2 years and I don't plan on leaving. I wish people would drop the attitudes and be more helpful sometimes. It is what it is though. I just turn a blind eye to it.
Cheers
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
I dont care about being flamed. I see others get flamed all the time on here. If someone is going to post another smart ass comment to my post then they should not bother. I understand people are people and I am not going anywhere either. But it just gets old...
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
I'm normally really quiet on here unless I have some constructive comment or help those that are in need who really need it.
But, the main problem for all the noob question is the lack of direction for noobs to find the info they really need to seek out. Common problem on any type of forum, but is part of how community forums work. Microsoft's community does a good job in controlling this with great help with constructive help on posts given by the moderators and links from others who shared the same type of problem.
Just my 2 pence worth.
Simba501 said:
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
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You just hit the nail on the head!
capathy21 said:
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
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The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
I have noticed this and commented on it in other threads also. The forum has went to **** the past few months.
I have been on this account for almost 3 years on here and 2 before that with another account so i have seen the changes. The reason there are so many newbs and questions is because Android and tablet use has exploded in the past year and half.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
People can be assholes. Yes, most of the time it is uncalled for. i try to help when I can, because I hope someone will help me when I need it. But, at the same time, people need to learn to try to help themselves. See my sig.
We were all newbs at one point - even still, it's expected that everyone, newb and veteran alike are to read the rules and use the search function.
It's all well and good that someone makes an honest mistake by posting the same threads over again, but when it happens by every Joe Blow that comes in here, two or more times a week, and there's already 10 threads on the same topic, and said person never thought to use the search function, has **** grammar and syntax even asking their question or making a "Galaxy S II vs. ?" for the 18th time, it pisses those of us off that actually used our brain when we came here.
See, you got it all wrong: XDA wasn't made for you and I - it is a DEVELOPER'S forum. They were kind enough to let the average user sign up, expecting us to be knowledgeable enough not to be asshats that make a hundred of the same threads. Being self-entitled, thinking that the users who want to keep the developers actually developing, not answering bull**** questions for the 15th time are in the wrong for being firm, even harsh with people that don't, then there's the door. You either help the developers or get out of the way. If the developers or power users are kind enough to help answer certain questions once or twice, then count it as a blessing. DON'T even get mad when those people are then annoyed because the newb doesn't abide by rules or use their brain.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
votinh said:
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
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Click to collapse
When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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I did not post this to "whine". I posted it because if I am reading something I get sick of smart ass responses. It may have been a developer only forum at one time but it no longer is. I along with many other people here are in no way developers, but know a little bit about it compared to the average joe and want to learn more. I greatly appreciate the hard working devs who donate their time and genius minds so that we can get the most out of our devices. Its not my first rodeo on a device forum by any means. They are designed for people to help others and learn. There is no place for the attitude. Period.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
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I've been on XDA for a little over a year, I think...ever since I got the captivate. I think I may have 1 or 2 posts in the development forum and 10 or 11 in the general forums. I have spent countless hours searching, reading, searching some more and reading some more until I got the answer I needed for my particular question. Almost 100% of the issues people ask about have been answered before.
That said, I think you're off of on a couple of your bolded comments. This is just as much of a consumer forum as it is a developers forum. The developers themselves have made it that way.
Nearly all google searches about android issues point to some XDA thread. Developers work hard and are often times compensated for their work (donations.) Although, I do not think the main driving force for their hard work is donations. They do it because they love it and they want to share their work with the CONSUMERS that frequent this site.
Flaming an unsuspecting consumer, who may not have done enough research on their own, into oblivion only has negative effects. That person may be a donator that decides to leave, for example. I've used the forum search on a number of occasions and to be honest, it is quite cumbersome...there is just so much data to go through. That doesn't stop me but it is quite frustrating some times.
I think a more effective strategy for dealing with consumers, who may not be as diligent at researching as most, would be to simply ignore the post. This will force them to do more research on their own. Now, you have a user who does more research on their own and you don't look like a ****.
Flaming is pointless. Those that do it are jerks.
Shammyh said:
When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
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Yup, in addition to one of the links in my sig being STRONGLY recommended reading:
Whenever I purchase a device, I always spend at least an hour or two a day for 2-3 days reading the forums for that device to learn its ins and outs before I post ANYTHING. Actually, in many cases, I do that before even purchasing.
XDA has clearly stated rules, and Rule #1 is to search before posting. In addition, any new users has to watch the infamous "Noob on XDA" video as part of the registration process now.
So there is NO excuse for not searching. Especially when a user posts a new thread with:
1) A question from the FAQ - it is there for a reason
2) A question that has already been covered in MULTIPLE topics that are still on the first 1-2 pages of the forum. It takes 30 seconds to skim through a page of thread titles - but users insist that someone else spend 2-3 minutes digging up a thread for them instead of spending a minute to read thread titles.
Yes, sometimes we can spend almost as much time on the flame - but at least that lets us relieve our stress at yet another user who thinks they deserve special treatment and doesn't have to follow the rules.
Edit: As to just ignoring a post - A user that didn't bother to search won't go away. They'll do something even more annoying like creating yet another NEW thread, posting a thread in Development because it wasn't answered in General or Q&A, or bumping their thread after only 12 hours. They only way they'll learn any lesson is to get a little toasty.
While donations are nice, the kind of user who comes with the kind of sense of self-entitlement that gets them flamed isn't going to donate anyway. Plus I could get quadruple the donations I've received in 3 months, and I'd still wind up with less than half a week's pay at my real job.
The amount of time one will spend searching and reading will be FAR less than the time you waste because you didn't read and screwed something up.
"Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life." (Yeah, I mangled that slightly...)
This is a DEVELOPERS forum, it always has been and always will be. Without developers, it's no different than Android Central or any other forum.
Ok there wouldnt be anyone giving noobs attitude if they just followed the rules. **** they even make you watch a video b4 becoming a member here. If you have a question chances are someone has already asked/answered it. There is a search bar for a reason. USE IT! If not the by all means go ahead and post Im 100% sure you wont get **** for it. They even have a suggested thread dropdown when creating a new one, hoping someone sees that there has already been a threat opened pertaining to that particular subject. Its frustrating to other uzers who read these fourms day in and day out seeing some kid with one post asking the same question someone had already posted 3 times now. simply put quit being lazy and search just like everyone else here has b4 they asked a question.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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Click to collapse
And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
bigblue95z said:
And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
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Click to collapse
Uhh, most of the developers and users here couldn't care less how "big" XDA is. And second, as Entropy512 pointed out, most devs don't care tremendously about donations. Yea, when I really like something, or have some extra cash, I'll kick a developer a few extra bucks. But it's not really about donations or popularity. And I don't think a single Dev here is actually living off of the donations from XDA users...
And further... if you check my post history, you'd see I in fact do try to "teach people to fish" all the time. And more often than not, I'll just answer a n00b question rather than flame. And yes, the Forum search isn't the best, hence why a Google "site:xda-developers.com YourSearchTermHere" is a useful alternative.
XDA is not a n00b friendly forum. If you're a new user looking to learn about Android or phones or whatever for the first time... there are other places to do that. It's called "xda-DEVELOPERS" for a reason.
Devs have holier that thou attitudes. They act like they shouldn't be bothered by stupid nub questions. Yet they feel compelled to answer them and ***** about doing so...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
use the search function and this will not happen.
/thread
Over the past month, Divine_Madcat and myself have seen a steady increase of new users join our forums. While this is a good thing, they all seem to suffer from the same thing... they cant read.
D_M and myself are constantly tending to reported posts (thank you BTW for those of you that do report posts to grab our attention to something that needs attending to) and threads. We seem to accumulate a lot of new threads which are basically questions like "How do I root my phone" or "I flashed 4.0.3 and now I cant make phone calls" or "How do I flash back to Stock?" which could have all been answers if two minutes were taken to look at the sticky threads...
We are in the process of trying to remedy this and have a few ideas up our sleeves. When more develops on this, we will let all of you know.
Speaking of Sticky threads, those are about to get a facelift too. Instead of having a huge plethora of sticky threads, we only need a few. Expect some new sticky threads to go up that encompasses the same information that is already there... it will now just be easier to see, refer to and be in one place.
Red5 said:
Speaking of Sticky threads, those are about to get a facelift too. Instead of having a huge plethora of sticky threads, we only need a few. Expect some new sticky threads to go up that encompasses the same information that is already there... it will now just be easier to see, refer to and be in one place.
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Click to collapse
Good to hear, I always thought we had way too many stickies that just confuses people.
I think there should be a test to verify that you can read and use the search function before you are allowed to post. And a probationary period where if a mod catches you asking a stupid question, you get sent back to the tutorial.
Though to be accurate, like my old sergeant used to say, "There are no stupid questions, only stupid people who ask questions".
SmittyRN said:
Though to be accurate, like my old sergeant used to say, "There are no stupid questions, only stupid people who ask questions".
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LOL....i love this.
we have a quote on our wall at the office:
'You can't fix stupid'
It would be great if new users couldn't post for a month. They would then be forced to search for the answers they need.
As I said, we have a few options we are throwing around... determining on which ones are actually possible and can be done on XDA is still being planned out. However, something should come out of it that will help with this issue.
Yeah, the idiots that CAN'T EVEN READ THE DAMN STICKIES and then whine about why they were attacked for NOT READING THE DAMN STICKIES are frustrating.
There is, across the Internet, at least one piece of forum etiquette that is almost universal:
READ ALL STICKY THREADS BEFORE POSTING. Why can't users learn this?
Entropy512 said:
There is, across the Internet, at least one piece of forum etiquette that is almost universal:
READ ALL STICKY THREADS BEFORE POSTING. Why can't users learn this?
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We're going to try and beat that into Users who have 10 posts or less on one way or another.
Entropy512 said:
Yeah, the idiots that CAN'T EVEN READ THE DAMN STICKIES and then whine about why they were attacked for NOT READING THE DAMN STICKIES are frustrating.
There is, across the Internet, at least one piece of forum etiquette that is almost universal:
READ ALL STICKY THREADS BEFORE POSTING. Why can't users learn this?
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stop being mean and just give me a link that tells me the answer i am looking for....psha
First offense, they get rickrolled.... 2nd offense, 2 girls/1 cup.... 3rd offense, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!
Don't change a thing. I need this place to counteract my chronic low blood pressure.
SmittyRN said:
First offense, they get rickrolled.... 2nd offense, 2 girls/1 cup.... 3rd offense, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!
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I think we need to be aggressive - 2g1c on first offense.
Entropy512 said:
I think we need to be aggressive - 2g1c on first offense.
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+1 No mercy!!
Entropy512 said:
I think we need to be aggressive - 2g1c on first offense.
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I demand retribution for commonly asked questions. I say when someone asks for something that's searchable, give them a CWM flashable zip that changes all of their app's icons to 100% transparent and removes the app names under the icon. That'll show 'em!
I like to suggest making the stickies stand out more. Right now the only difference is the little pushpin, which I admit I miss sometimes myself. Yes they are at the top, but it always looks likes there's a ton of them.
Some grouping box around them that says "STICKIES!! - READ THESE BEFORE POSTING ANYTHING!"
Highlight them a different color or something even.
Granted, that probably requires forum coding, which I don't know if mods can do (not skill, just accessibility).
Just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.
This is no different than the sign on a storefront that says "please use other door"... about half of the people will invariably try to walk in the locked / faulty door anyway.
I've seen this same thing on literally every forum I've ever been a part of so I for one look forward to seeing what the "powers that be" come up with to eliminate or at least minimize stupidity and redundancy once and for all.
SmittyRN said:
First offense, they get rickrolled.... 2nd offense, 2 girls/1 cup.... 3rd offense, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!
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after the second offense...there would be no third...
alex4lex said:
after the second offense...there would be no third...
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I'm probably the only person in my gang that has never actually seen the vid. Everyone tried to get my to watch it, told me how gross it was, and I was like "why the frack would I want to watch it then?". To me, it's kinda like, "I think this milk is spoiled, taste this". Uhm, no thank you, I'll take your word for it.
A few things to consider -for a tough problem -
Moderators spend more time enforcing accurate post subjects. "Help Me" "I have a question" etc.
Close the stickies when they become redundant, off topic, or terminally "thanks", "that worked" etc.
A newcomer's forum. Those who want to help bring up the novices can check into this forum along with the newcomers helping each other out. Moderators can move posts that should be in this forum from forums where they don't belong. This could the "one month quarantine" forum for new registrants. Moderators could move posts to appropriate forums if the feel topic has wider appeal
A user moderation system like slashdot. slashdot isn't a question forum, but the user moderation system could be used for browsing over unwelcome posts tagged as newcomer, duplicate, etc
A forum that welcomes everyone and belittling of anyone for any reason isn't tolerated: hometheatershack. You will see newcomer questions handled only by those who really want to help; some members gently encourage newcomers to be more resourceful. The forum rules strongly encourage everyone to search around first. You will see the grizzled titan patiently answering the dumbass questions for the umpteeth time. Others obviously pass over them silently.
A middle ground like diyaudio, a forum populated by the world leaders in audio electronics. There is the occasional frustration at the newcomer but most just pass over or pitch in and keep teaching.
It is a tough issue. Just a few ideas from a long time forum user and newcomer to phone hacking. I've learned a lot from xda. Thanks!
Red5 said:
We're going to try and beat that into Users who have 10 posts or less on one way or another.
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I must admit I am guilty of this. The problem I have is while using the xda premium app , the search tool doesn't seem to let me search a specific forum , it searches all of xda. It is quite possible i am missing something but maybe this is something that can be changed in the app. Entorpy thanks for all your DD work, GTG thank you for unnammed , red and m.c. ty for being decent and understanding mods , and of course miami thanks for the criticism.
So, I'm going to wait until the official ICS update appears for my SII. (supposedly 19th of March)
However, I still want root without flashing a custom kernel. (not wanting to increment the custom flash counter)
My understanding is that if I update to the official ICS update then the usb jig becomes useless in resetting the counter. Is that correct?
The current method I used to root was via superoneclick, however.. that no longer works with ICS right?
If for example I wanted to reset the counter (if I did use a custom kernel for root) could I downgrade from the official ICS back to GB (using odin) and then use the usb jig to reset it?
NB. I use root for titaniumbackup, adaway and lbe privacy guard.
About half of what you've written is incorrect, and you can find the correct information from a little bit of searching and reading.
FORUM RULES
1. Search before posting.
oinkylicious said:
About half of what you've written is incorrect, and you can find the correct information from a little bit of searching and reading.
FORUM RULES
1. Search before posting.
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Huh, that's the second post I've seen of yours that is entirely unhelpful.
You can only do so much searching and this sub-forum is called "Q&A"...
AFAIK you don't need to flash a GB Rom to make usb jig work you can just flash an old bootloader and usb jig should work like a charm after that
You got that response because this question is answered several times a day on here. And the answer can be easily found with a few minutes legwork. XReal is correct. You can flash the old bootloader & a jig will work. So it looks like you've got a bit of research/searching (to find said bootloader) to do.
EvilMonkeySlayer said:
Huh, that's the second post I've seen of yours that is entirely unhelpful.
You can only do so much searching and this sub-forum is called "Q&A"...
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MistahBungle said:
You got that response because this question is answered several times a day on here. And the answer can be easily found with a few minutes legwork. XReal is correct. You can flash the old bootloader & a jig will work. So it looks like you've got a bit of research/searching (to find said bootloader) to do.
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Still, there was no need for it. A better response would have been to either choose not to respond or post with a link to a post answering the questions. XDA has been getting a very bad reputation because of posts like the above. (hell I've been a lurker on here for quite a while opting instead to read information and posts rather than posting because of the above)
EvilMonkeySlayer said:
Still, there was no need for it. A better response would have been to either choose not to respond or post with a link to a post answering the questions. XDA has been getting a very bad reputation because of posts like the above. (hell I've been a lurker on here for quite a while opting instead to read information and posts rather than posting because of the above)
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Its getting a bad rep because people refuse to search and clog the forums up with already answered questions
There's even a sticky in general saying don't create ice threads...people still do it
This is a development forum, not a spoonfeed n00bs & lazy people whatever they demand forum. And it certainly isn't a democracy. If people want to gain anything from their time here, they need to read & learn.
People who don't like that can go to Sammobile for all I (and a lot of people here) care.
EvilMonkeySlayer said:
Still, there was no need for it. A better response would have been to either choose not to respond or post with a link to a post answering the questions. XDA has been getting a very bad reputation because of posts like the above. (hell I've been a lurker on here for quite a while opting instead to read information and posts rather than posting because of the above)
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Darkside Agent said:
Its getting a bad rep because people refuse to search and clog the forums up with already answered questions
There's even a sticky in general saying don't create ice threads...people still do it
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Sure, people are posting ICS threads in general. Sure, there are people who are a bit ignorant but nothing is achieved by being rude. If it's been said a million times then don't post, let the thread die rather or until a mod locks it.
As to the bad rep, yep.. it's definitely because of people saying "use search" or "noobs". If you like I'd be perfectly happy to provide some examples? (oops, can't post urls at the moment until I've hit 8 posts)
There is a level of people keeping up with information and using search. And people who don't keep a constant watch on threads. (hence my post, I can't say I'm too enthusiastic about trawling through endless posts.. I did a bit of reading and searching, wasn't 100% sure so I thought I'd post in a question and answer sub-forum)
Anyway, I've derailed my own thread enough. xReal gave me the confirmation I was after.
EvilMonkeySlayer said:
As to the bad rep, yep.. it's definitely because of people saying "use search" or "noobs".
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its got nothing to do with that at all
Like i said, its because people refuse to search, refuse to read and refuse to educate themselves. Everyone just wants spoonfeeding.
Why do people insist on opening a new ICS thread when they could just ask their question in an existing thread? Theres plenty of them....it because people WONT search - they want the answer there and then like its something they deserve
Darkside Agent said:
its got nothing to do with that at all
Like i said, its because people refuse to search, refuse to read and refuse to educate themselves. Everyone just wants spoonfeeding.
Why do people insist on opening a new ICS thread when they could just ask their question in an existing thread? Theres plenty of them....it because people WONT search - they want the answer there and then like its something they deserve
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To be fair, search is pretty bad unless you know the exact terms to search for. And reading through threads can often span a significant number pages. People see those gigantic threads and can only read so much before they become either frustrated or disillusioned.
Pretty often I've just resorted to using google site search because it gives better results than the inbuilt site search. This is a problem endemic of all large forums.
Of course there are poorly worded, poorly thought out posts where the person has not read or searched. But nothing is ever achieved by jumping up and down whilst screaming about noobs and demanding they use search. In less time than it took to post about noobs and using search a reply could have been formed linking to a thread with the answer or simply it could have been left to die with all the chaff posts.
To be fair, search is pretty bad unless you know the exact terms to search for. And reading through threads can often span a significant number pages. People see those gigantic threads and can only read so much before they become either frustrated or disillusioned.
Pretty often I've just resorted to using google site search because it gives better results than the inbuilt site search. This is a problem endemic of all large forums.
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yep the search is bad on here, using google with XDA added in the search terms works fine though and provides 95% of required results
In less time than it took to post about noobs and using search a reply could have been formed linking to a thread with the answer or simply it could have been left to die with all the chaff posts.
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OR, if they read up themselves, they wouldnt have to wait for an answer or get flamed from other users...it works both ways.
The only reason you are seeing so many 'use the search function' posts is because these inane threads with questions that have already been asked ans answered pop up more now than any other kind of thread...put it this way....i no longer come to this forum to garner knowledge/info/mods/techniques or anything like that anymore, i just come here to see what other useless threads have been created and what the responses were to said thread...its becoming entertaining as well as frustrating (theres also a reason why a lot of oinkylicious' recent posts contain the copied pasted section from the forum rules:
1. Search before posting
If people aren't doing this, then they are breaking forum rules and should be given a 'vacation'
Darkside Agent said:
yep the search is bad on here, using google with XDA added in the search terms works fine though and provides 95% of required results
OR, if they read up themselves, they wouldnt have to wait for an answer or get flamed from other users...it works both ways.
The only reason you are seeing so many 'use the search function' posts is because these inane threads with questions that have already been asked ans answered pop up more now than any other kind of thread...put it this way....i no longer come to this forum to garner knowledge/info/mods/techniques or anything like that anymore, i just come here to see what other useless threads have been created and what the responses were to said thread...its becoming entertaining as well as frustrating (theres also a reason why a lot of oinkylicious' recent posts contain the copied pasted section from the forum rules:
1. Search before posting
If people aren't doing this, then they are breaking forum rules and should be given a 'vacation'
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Again, if people weren't so eager to be so rude this site would be much less frustrating for everyone involved. Case in point look at the tag added to this thread or oinkylicious' post. Not helpful to anyone in the least.
If someone can't contribute to a thread in a useful manner then don't post. The post rate is of a relatively high ratio that it'll quickly disappear into the ether.
And again, people can only do so much searching and reading. As you yourself said the site search is pretty bad and posts can often span a significant number of pages making reading up nigh on impossible unless you spend an inordinate amount of time obsessing over everything. You can't expect people to know everything.
I promised an example url earlier. Since I'm still not at 8 posts, I'll post it without the "http://" and hope the filter doesn't pick it out: pay.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/pse0m/rant_about_xda_short_and_angry_but_bear_with_me/
There is one heck of a lot of valid criticism in there.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1501719
this should work
EvilMonkeySlayer said:
Again, if people weren't so eager to be so rude this site would be much less frustrating for everyone involved. Case in point look at the tag added to this thread or oinkylicious' post. Not helpful to anyone in the least.
If someone can't contribute to a thread in a useful manner then don't post. The post rate is of a relatively high ratio that it'll quickly disappear into the ether.
And again, people can only do so much searching and reading. As you yourself said the site search is pretty bad and posts can often span a significant number of pages making reading up nigh on impossible unless you spend an inordinate amount of time obsessing over everything. You can't expect people to know everything.
I promised an example url earlier. Since I'm still not at 8 posts, I'll post it without the "http://" and hope the filter doesn't pick it out: pay.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/pse0m/rant_about_xda_short_and_angry_but_bear_with_me/
There is one heck of a lot of valid criticism in there.
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Bunch of whiny users in that link you posted. And the important word here is 'users'.
You, like a lot of people are clearly under the misapprehension that XDA is a users forum. It is not. It is a development forum where users are tolerated provided certain 'rules' are adhered to by said users.
On XDA, developers come first, second, third, fourth, fifth and seventh. People who are prepared to read, learn and put in a bit of effort beyond searching for 20 seconds & throwing their hands in the air because they can't find something come sixth. And people who demand everything to be given to them on a silver platter don't figure into the equation whatsoever.
And your criticisms are completely invalid in the case of the question you asked, the answer is easily found in a minute in spite of XDA's crappy search facility (anyone who has been here more than 5 minutes knows to use Google with XDA appended to search terms). Why ? Because it's asked on here several times a day.
You can keep on digging a hole for yourself if you want tho.
Edit to add - Looks like it's your lucky day that I have fat fingers :-|
EvilMonkeySlayer said:
Again, if people weren't so eager to be so rude this site would be much less frustrating for everyone involved.
Maybe but this is a developers forum not a fix my phone forum .
Search may well be hard but as 90% of troublesome posters dont even bother to read the stickies faqs or guides dont mind reading the posts on the page they post on why should they be helped .
You asked
My understanding is that if I update to the official ICS update then the usb jig becomes useless in resetting the counter. Is that correct?
Its been asked multiple times their is even a post covering the topic .
First post on Google
http://forum.xda-developers.com/archive/index.php/t-1296161.html
You asked
f for example I wanted to reset the counter (if I did use a custom kernel for root) could I downgrade from the official ICS back to GB (using odin) and then use the usb jig to reset it?
Yet another question that has been answered multiple times .
Noobs come on here and get help all the time but their is a massive uprising by those that actually take the time to help against the ones that totally ignore the rules and demand everything dumped in their lap . If you where one of a few you would have got an answer but you are one of many sadly for this forum and its getting worse day by day .
jje
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MistahBungle said:
Bunch of whiny users in that link you posted. And the important word here is 'users'.
You, like a lot of people are clearly under the misapprehension that XDA is a users forum. It is not. It is a development forum where users are tolerated provided certain 'rules' are adhered to by said users.
On XDA, developers come first, second, third, fourth, fifth and seventh. People who are prepared to read, learn and put in a bit of effort beyond searching for 20 seconds & throwing their hands in the air because they can't find something come sixth. And people who demand everything to be given to them on a silver platter don't figure into the equation whatsoever.
And your criticisms are completely invalid in the case of the question you asked, the answer is easily found in a minute in spite of XDA's crappy search facility (anyone who has been here more than 5 minutes knows to use Google with XDA appended to search terms). Why ? Because it's asked on here several times a day.
You can keep on digging a hole for yourself if you want tho.
Edit to add - Looks like it's your lucky day that I have fat fingers :-|
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If you can't address the points and complain about "whiny users" and so forth then why are you replying?
If this site was dedicated to purely developers then there would be a number of things for said developers. Namely things like an instance of bugzilla or other software for bug tracking and git (or something else like cvs *spit*) repositories for development to ensure versions and code submitting are kept on top of.
The fact that there are Q&A, Accessories etc sub-forums rather than just forums for development only counters your assertion.
Honestly, who is digging the hole? The ones who use Ad hominems and fail to address a single point or the ones raising the criticism?
You keep replying, so surely something I'm saying is quite valid.
A quick example of what a former mod classes this forum as;
link
Yes searching is in the rules and needs to be complied with, the problem most with non searchers is that they make the search harder as people search same thing and get another useless post asking the question and not the informative answers that they want.........!
Thread closed.