For anyone curious, I just spoke with Motorola, and then with Nvidia regarding normal operating temperatures of the tegra2 processor. Moto suggested I swap the phone through my company (business phone).
Anyway,
40-60C is considered "Normal" operating temps (per Nvidia) with a staggering 105C (221F)as MAX temp. I got a little worried as I was running a temp of 165F while running google music and trapster in the car today.
Anyway the device did not actually shut down, but I was experiencing the (what seems common) music stuttering.
Anyone else see anything like this? Now my question is who makes the Mobo and what are its normal temps
The music stuttering most likely had nothing to do with the heat. But 221f seems high for a max temp. If your problem is not heat related at all, and is as I expect a software issue then getting the phone changed really won't do much to solve your problem.
Related
I know, the Tegra K1 gets hot. Is this a widespread issue though (some people only report minor warmth)? How hot is too hot? Mine is getting stoopid hot, and I'm pissed because I finally have a unit with almost no issues, save the over heating problem. I know the SHIELD has issues with screen cracking, and the N9 should be safer with the metal band, but something doesn't seem right...
Iboschi said:
the Tegra K1 gets hot
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Click to collapse
This.
combine that with a badly configured cpu governor that boosts the frequencies to 2+ ghz even for simple tasks that do not need all those cpu cycles.
In addition to the whopping 1.5ghz touchboost frequency (WTF google).
After rooting and fixing the last two points, I experience high temps only when playing games.
Blocking Ads also tremendously helps temps while web browsing.
I wouldn't consider it a problem. I also doubt you have a bad unit even though its getting hot. Chances are if you do the exact same things on 100 nexus 9's the temp will be very close. I've been looking through the kernel code for tegra throttling and doing some tests. The tests show it starts to very lightly throttle starting at 70c in my tests. I believe I saw in the kernel there is 3 throttling states basically, light, heavy, and one other I can't remember. Shutdown occurs at right above 100°c.
As far as the governor, I'm sure if it made sense gooe would have lowered it. But, if I remember right this was part of project butter to make the ui smooth, as well as some other things. I don't think touch boost is killing battery too bad, and I'm willing to sacrifice some for a smoother ui anyway.
Thisbis just a hit running CPU, no way around it and its not a defect, its just a side effect of a powerful CPU in this design. I also noticed although it heats up quick, it cools extrememly fast. Like dropping 15-20° in seconds, literally- so overall I don't think this is a huge problem, but if they can make it better, more power to them.
di11igaf said:
I wouldn't consider it a problem. I also doubt you have a bad unit even though its getting hot. Chances are if you do the exact same things on 100 nexus 9's the temp will be very close. I've been looking through the kernel code for tegra throttling and doing some tests. The tests show it starts to very lightly throttle starting at 70c in my tests. I believe I saw in the kernel there is 3 throttling states basically, light, heavy, and one other I can't remember. Shutdown occurs at right above 100°c.
As far as the governor, I'm sure if it made sense gooe would have lowered it. But, if I remember right this was part of project butter to make the ui smooth, as well as some other things. I don't think touch boost is killing battery too bad, and I'm willing to sacrifice some for a smoother ui anyway.
Thisbis just a hit running CPU, no way around it and its not a defect, its just a side effect of a powerful CPU in this design. I also noticed although it heats up quick, it cools extrememly fast. Like dropping 15-20° in seconds, literally- so overall I don't think this is a huge problem, but if they can make it better, more power to them.
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im really happy to hear about your thought
but if the heat issue occurs many times, will it break the others hardware,
i have seen in laptop, if the graphics card heat too much, it can melt the motherboard and the others parts of the laptop,
im afraid that it will happen to this tablet eventually
i really love my nexus 9, just this heat issue make me incomfortable
The HTC One M8 only has a battery temperature indicator (and from what I gather, these components aren't too reliable, but I digress.) I've recently reinstalled BOINC (the manager app for [email protected]) and it constantly starts and stops based on the default values for temperature. By default, it's set to stop computing when the battery reaches 40°C. This seems low to me. I'd like to increase the value so the app runs more often, but I also don't want to literally fry my phone.
What is the maximum temperature my battery can safely reach without damage? How accurate is the sensor in this model? (Gunmetal, if that makes any difference.)
Thanks very much.
The phone already has its own temperature monitoring, and will shutoff well before reaching temps that can cause permanent damage. A few folks have claimed that this isn't to be trusted. But with any temperature monitoring, its to be taken with a grain of salt, and in the end you have to trust something.
I'd agree that 40C is probably too low. I haven't seen any good figures for desired or undesired (too hot) operating temps for smartphones, but its been said (and reasonably so) that these are small computers, and the desired temps would be similar to a PC. And for PCs, while opinions will vary some, temps up to 60C or even 70C is acceptable. As you know, it depends on where you measure the temperature. And for smartphones in particular, while it may not cause immediate damage, having the batter temp consistently at higher temps will in the long run harm battery life. So I'd say limiting to maybe 50-55C is probably reasonable. There is some judgement involved here. But again, I'd say that is reasonable.
Attached is an image showing there is a CPU temp sensor on our phone. Stock kernel has an mpdecision setting to limit CPU and throttle or completely shut the phone down if temps get too dangerous. As for battery, 40℃ is a bit conservative. I live in Arizona and it gets upwards of 44℃ in the summer, so my phone would be in permanent limp mode during the summer.
redpoint73 said:
The phone already has its own temperature monitoring, and will shutoff well before reaching temps that can cause permanent damage. A few folks have claimed that this isn't to be trusted. But with any temperature monitoring, its to be taken with a grain of salt, and in the end you have to trust something.
I'd agree that 40C is probably too low. I haven't seen any good figures for desired or undesired (too hot) operating temps for smartphones, but its been said (and reasonably so) that these are small computers, and the desired temps would be similar to a PC. And for PCs, while opinions will vary some, temps up to 60C or even 70C is acceptable. As you know, it depends on where you measure the temperature. And for smartphones in particular, while it may not cause immediate damage, having the batter temp consistently at higher temps will in the long run harm battery life. So I'd say limiting to maybe 50-55C is probably reasonable. There is some judgement involved here. But again, I'd say that is reasonable.
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Thanks much for your input. That's what I was hoping and expecting to hear. I've been conservatively playing around with settings, and I've limited the temperature threshold to 45C. This, combined with all the other very nice settings in BOINC, satisfies me. The funny thing is I probably have a better CPU in my phone than in my PC... I should cross-benchmark them somehow.
Hello guys,
I bought this phone about two days after release and was pretty happy with it. It felt like the Snapdragon 810 didn't overheat at all and the performance was far better than on my "old" Z3.
Reason enough for me to try PPSSPP and emulate some good old games. For example MHP3rd ran at 100% speed in every area in-game with no frameskip activated.
But after some time (I'd say 20-30 mins) the cpu throttled a lot. The game speed was only at 50% even though the device didn't feel THAT hot (I've seen/felt hotter ones).
I tried the same thing again with the app "CPU Temp", and it seems like the CPU temperature never exceeded about 58°C. I'm not sure about smartphone CPUs but as far as I know, most chips can take up to 80-90°C until they start throttling. My Z5c runs at 52-58°C perfectly fine, but suddenly starts throttling for some reason.
Is it the CPU governor that tries to save battery life? I'd probably need to root the phone to "fix" this, but there are no roots available yet.
Or is it something else? Is the max. cpu temperature set too low? Could it be the S810 has no real temperature sensor and CPU Temp shows me something completely different?
Thanks in advance!
Greets,
Uftherr
I think that Sony it's throttling the CPU more to be below 58°C than to save battery life.
Try with the latest firmware (released today at PC Companion) it seems to be a little more snappier (maybe its a placebo).
I don't know why because the kernel is from the same date.
I consider that they should let the phone gain 65°C to increase the performance (at heat cost).
Sent from my E5823
As a new owner of the Z5C (rly impressed so far ) I couldn't help but notice the heat, courtesy of the SD810 I assume.
So i've started monitoring the temps for the past few days with CPU-Z and Cpu Temperature.
For the most part while doing everyday tasks such as phone calls, news, music, Whatsapp and so on the temperature is around 30-40ish which seems reasonable and causes no concern.
Whilst doing something more intense such as running a game, installing/updating app, or recording video the temperature jumps to around 45-60 which again seems reasonable.
There are sudden momentary (2 second) spikes to 70's 80's usually while doing heavy R/W tasks such as installing an app.
Battery temps usually hover around high 20's to mid 30's whilst doing normal tasks and during more intense tasks can jump up to around 40ish.
I was wondering if other users here who also bothered to monitor their thermals are experiencing similar results or not?
Also am curious to know if someone knows what the msm_thresh threshold is for the Z5C i've noticed mine topping at around 41..
Thanks
I have been getting pretty much similar results, albeit a bit lower temps due to disabling a few cores. Those temps are perfectly fine, as long as the battery dosen't get to the high 40's. The throttling stats when the battery reaches 43°C and clears when it get down to 41°C, you can find the throttling thresholds in the file called thermal-engine.conf located in /system/etc/
Hello Axon 7 users, I just picked up one a couple of days ago. After finally figuring out the bootloader, bootstack and general stock experience I tested a little bit of gaming. I found that a basic game like Clash Royale heats the battery up to around 42°C already with low brightness and slow charging. A more intensive game like the new Knives Out runs only slightly hotter but it becomes apparent that CPU gets throttled soon after loading to 1036MHz across all cores causing lag.
It's disappointing so I tried to find how to modify the throttling. Using ZTE's Power Manager setting on performance or balanced doesn't seem to have a noticeable difference.I tried the only stock custom kernel AX7 but it's outdated on B32 and I find it randomly reboots regularly. The stock kernel itself allows some configuration, but the thermal settings in Kernel Adiutor don't reflect any charge.
A quick Google search brings up how LG V20 Snapdragon 820 users edit /system/etc/thermal-engine.conf to tweak the throttling levels. Their config is quite different but they mod big to 1824Mhz and let little scale itself.
I couldn't get thermal-engine.conf to use the thermal-engine-8996-perf.conf values by copying the values to it as it suggests inside. I tried renaming it with the -zte.conf ending as it suggests as well but that didn't work. After just renaming both the normal and perf conf files with a .bak ending, I've found better throttling performance. Big now throttles to 1632Mhz and little to 1324Mhz. As far as I can understand the files don't have charging rates inside, just GPU and CPU throttling.
However as expected the device heats up a few degrees more now. This now puts my battery up to 47°C in Knives Out under the same conditions. Charging is stopped at 45°C by the system so as previously mentioned it's unmodified.
I just wanted to check since I couldn't find it mentioned. Is everyone ok with gaming performance limited to 1036Mhz with the normal throttle? Also are my temperatures normal? I guess CPU doesn't seem that high reaching around 65°C, it's just that the battery has less than 20°C difference in intensive performance. I suppose it's a quirk of the heat pipe to battery as heatsink design. I just expected more from a metal unibody chassis and at least normal CPU gaming performance. I thought my Sony Z3 Compact design was bad for battery thermals, with the battery stacked behind the CPU board, sandwiched in insulating glass. But I didn't expect to see a phone to route a heatpipe directly to it's battery.
Anyway it is what it is. Follow this information if you want some better gaming performance at the cost of your battery cycle life. In my case I bought the Axon7 just as a separate media consumption device rather than a phone so I can live with the tradeoff. If battery gets bad enough before 2 years I'll consider using warranty at the loss of receiving their refurbished replacement. Manufacturer warranty's in fact cover batteries for 80% depletion.
I recommend the app DevCheck Pro for being able to monitor CPU, GPU, temperatures and other things overlayed. I think some others may do similar but they may not be updated for Big Little and are more instrusively overlayed.
Infy_AsiX said:
A quick Google search brings up how LG V20 Snapdragon 820 users edit /system/etc/thermal-engine.conf to tweak the throttling levels. Their config is quite different but they mod big to 1824Mhz and let little scale itself.
I couldn't get thermal-engine.conf to use the thermal-engine-8996-perf.conf values by copying the values to it as it suggests inside. I tried renaming it with the -zte.conf ending as it suggests as well but that didn't work. After just renaming both the normal and perf conf files with a .bak ending, I've found better throttling performance. Big now throttles to 1632Mhz and little to 1324Mhz. As far as I can understand the files don't have charging rates inside, just GPU and CPU throttling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read half of that to be honest, but just one thing: To make things harder, ZTE added added a write protection on the system. To disable it you have to use a computer and connect your phone with ADB, then issue "adb reboot disemmcwp" (like DISable EMMC Write Protection). Otherwise all the changes that you made get undone after a reboot, and obviously you'd have to reboot after modifying that file
On LOS you can use BeastMode (even if your phone isn't an A2017U) which for me is the best friggin kernel I've used in performance terms. There you can change thermal limits
Infy_AsiX said:
Hello Axon 7 users, I just picked up one a couple of days ago. After finally figuring out the bootloader, bootstack and general stock experience I tested a little bit of gaming. I found that a basic game like Clash Royale heats the battery up to around 42°C already with low brightness and slow charging. A more intensive game like the new Knives Out runs only slightly hotter but it becomes apparent that CPU gets throttled soon after loading to 1036MHz across all cores causing lag.
It's disappointing so I tried to find how to modify the throttling. Using ZTE's Power Manager setting on performance or balanced doesn't seem to have a noticeable difference.I tried the only stock custom kernel AX7 but it's outdated on B32 and I find it randomly reboots regularly. The stock kernel itself allows some configuration, but the thermal settings in Kernel Adiutor don't reflect any charge.
A quick Google search brings up how LG V20 Snapdragon 820 users edit /system/etc/thermal-engine.conf to tweak the throttling levels. Their config is quite different but they mod big to 1824Mhz and let little scale itself.
I couldn't get thermal-engine.conf to use the thermal-engine-8996-perf.conf values by copying the values to it as it suggests inside. I tried renaming it with the -zte.conf ending as it suggests as well but that didn't work. After just renaming both the normal and perf conf files with a .bak ending, I've found better throttling performance. Big now throttles to 1632Mhz and little to 1324Mhz. As far as I can understand the files don't have charging rates inside, just GPU and CPU throttling.
However as expected the device heats up a few degrees more now. This now puts my battery up to 47°C in Knives Out under the same conditions. Charging is stopped at 45°C by the system so as previously mentioned it's unmodified.
I just wanted to check since I couldn't find it mentioned. Is everyone ok with gaming performance limited to 1036Mhz with the normal throttle? Also are my temperatures normal? I guess CPU doesn't seem that high reaching around 65°C, it's just that the battery has less than 20°C difference in intensive performance. I suppose it's a quirk of the heat pipe to battery as heatsink design. I just expected more from a metal unibody chassis and at least normal CPU gaming performance. I thought my Sony Z3 Compact design was bad for battery thermals, with the battery stacked behind the CPU board, sandwiched in insulating glass. But I didn't expect to see a phone to route a heatpipe directly to it's battery.
Anyway it is what it is. Follow this information if you want some better gaming performance at the cost of your battery cycle life. In my case I bought the Axon7 just as a separate media consumption device rather than a phone so I can live with the tradeoff. If battery gets bad enough before 2 years I'll consider using warranty at the loss of receiving their refurbished replacement. Manufacturer warranty's in fact cover batteries for 80% depletion.
I recommend the app DevCheck Pro for being able to monitor CPU, GPU, temperatures and other things overlayed. I think some others may do similar but they may not be updated for Big Little and are more instrusively overlayed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have noticed the same performance many months ago.
I tried changing the thermal values with both ways through the conf file or a custom kernel but all implementations seem to be faulty as nothing changed.
In the end I gave up because I couldn't find a solution for this.
But I figured because my games clash of clans, ppsspp, gba emulators don't lag I din't care much.
If you find a solution let me/us know.
Or post the modded confs you're using as well if you can.
That's all from me.
I just renamed both the thermal-engine files with a .bak extension. I've also got ZTE's Power Manager frozen as the performance profiles there don't seem to do anything and I don't use it's other features. There's some kind of CPU GPU throttle still in place but it's much higher as previously mentioned,. After searching further I saw your discussion about /vendor/bin related throttle, maybe that's the fallback it's now on.
The device does get uncomfortably hot with a new demanding game at maximum settings. I wouldn't recommend doing this if you want to maintain your battery. However if you're interested I discovered the Ax7 allows defining a lower maximum battery voltage in another TL/DR post https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=74746734&postcount=1353. To explain simply, it's possible to limit the voltage low for health and safety while keeping the device almost primarily powered by mains. Effectively the battery is at an optimum low voltage, practically idle but very hot. A little complicated sure, but worth it. Getting a Daydream V1 tomorrow to play with, this stuff will help with heat and performance a lot. If anyone wants my long winded explanation, give me a shout.
The CPU temp does jump around higher than 70. I'm tending to think that current powerful mobile processors aren't efficient enough for the physical body constraints of phones. Let alone poorly designed ones. The 820 is meant to be an improvement over the 810, wouldn't believe it by the throttle required and performance lost. The 835 is efficient enough apparently. From experience though I have my doubts on reviews and benchmarks to reflect real usage stress.
edit: Oh and disable VDD restriction in your kernel setting if you've set it to auto enable. That seems to be a switch for the aggressive throttle still available after mod.
Sent from my ZTE Axon 7 using XDA Labs
Infy_AsiX said:
I just renamed both the thermal-engine files with a .bak extension. I've also got ZTE's Power Manager frozen as the performance profiles there don't seem to do anything and I don't use it's other features. There's some kind of CPU GPU throttle still in place but it's much higher as previously mentioned,. After searching further I saw your discussion about /vendor/bin related throttle, maybe that's the fallback it's now on.
The device does get uncomfortably hot with a new demanding game at maximum settings. I wouldn't recommend doing this if you want to maintain your battery. However if you're interested I discovered the Ax7 allows defining a lower maximum battery voltage in another TL/DR post https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=74746734&postcount=1353. To explain simply, it's possible to limit the voltage low for health and safety while keeping the device almost primarily powered by mains. Effectively the battery is at an optimum low voltage, practically idle but very hot. A little complicated sure, but worth it. Getting a Daydream V1 tomorrow to play with, this stuff will help with heat and performance a lot. If anyone wants my long winded explanation, give me a shout.
The CPU temp does jump around higher than 70. I'm tending to think that current powerful mobile processors aren't efficient enough for the physical body constraints of phones. Let alone poorly designed ones. The 820 is meant to be an improvement over the 810, wouldn't believe it by the throttle required and performance lost. The 835 is efficient enough apparently. From experience though I have my doubts on reviews and benchmarks to reflect real usage stress.
edit: Oh and disable VDD restriction in your kernel setting if you've set it to auto enable. That seems to be a switch for the aggressive throttle still available after mod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's weird... what are the ambient temps where you live? Here it's anything between 20 and 30 degrees and mine never gets that hot, and it barely throttles. Of course you shouldn't game while charging, that WILL throttle the phone.
I have a big old CPU heatsink without a fan, and when I charge the phone at night I just put it upon the heatsink. It keeps the battery around the ambient temp, which I guess helps with battery degradation.
A nice app for monitoring the CPU is Trepn profiler, you can program it to show you anything like frequencies and temps on 2 separate graphs for example