Im curious. I work for Verizon and when we sell phones we normally recommend customers to unplug there phone once it is fully charged. Im curious to know if anyone has a reference that states this whether or not this is fact or fiction. I've heard and would think that the manufacturers would prevent this from happening, but I am not sure if that is the case. Does anyone have more information regarding this charging process?
I would rather burn my phone up than deal with unplugging it after it is charged. And no, you don't have to.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
Most batteries have built in safety measures to prevent over charging
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
NavyKwonMA said:
Most batteries have built in safety measures to prevent over charging
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
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This is why when you unplug it you lose 5% almost instantly. It charges to 100% then lets it die down to 95% and repeats.
Thanks for the replies. The information given was helpful. Im still curious if anyone can provide a legitimate reference to this information though. A link of some sort would be awesome.
Over in the dInc forum someone put together a big set of charts relating to how that phone charges. It's battery technology is identical to the Tbolt so I assume it would apply. In short, no, you cannot overcharge the phone. What's damaging to the phone is being left in a fully, or nearly fully charged state for extended portions of the battery's life. The ideal long-term storage charge for a Lithium polymer battery is basically the charge that it comes with from the factory.
From all that I've read....
Lithium Ion/polymer batteries have top and bottom thresholds for min and max charge. Below a point, the materials become damaged, and above a point, they become damaged as well. This is unlike a car battery where you can basically suck nearly every volt out of it then recharge it like new. A lithium battery yields only about 1/2 to 1/3 of it's total charge before it's technically "dead". And the voltage drop relative to charge state isn't linear either. Over the useful life of the battery, the voltage drop is relatively slight. Once it begins to drop off more sharply, it's displaying characteristics of being "dead". A lithium battery is assumed to be fully charged when one of 2 things happens; the temperature begins to rise under an unchanged charge input, or the voltage/resistance inside the battery begins to rise. The latter is the method HTC devices use because it largely eliminates the environmental variable of temperature which can vary wildly between a purse, a hot car, an ice arena, or an air conditioned home. Additionally, circuitry is installed on the battery itself to prevent an overcharge state and over-temperature state because these two conditions can easily cause the battery to explode. And lithium will react violently to any form of moisture.... like your skin. The internal circuitry also includes a fuse which will destroy the battery by breaking the contact the internal cells have with external circuitry in the even of moisture saturation due to the risk of thermal runaway my means of short circuit.
As users of HTC devices, or any Li-Io devices may notice, unplugging immediately after charging is complete will prevent a sudden drop off in available battery percentage. This is because the charge has stopped and will not begin again until a min threshold has been reached, usually around 95%. This isn't a flaw with the battery, phone or charger. Tiamat kernels come in forms that will prevent this, but will damage the life of the battery in doing so.
ziggy471.com has some good info on these batteries, as does the thread in the dInc forum. Not sure exactly what forum or thread over there, but a quick search should yield it.
And that's pretty much all I can tell you about lithium-polymer batteries!
brizey said:
I would rather burn my phone up than deal with unplugging it after it is charged. And no, you don't have to.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
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I guess this would be OK if I had money to throw away. Buying batteries can get very expensive. One of my main reasons forvthinking overcharging is very possible was because I have noticed that when my phone is plugged in and I am using it, it tends to get very hot. From my understanding, while the phone is charging the current causes the batteries cells to heat up, which creates the charge. Once the battery is fully charged I assumed the cells were still being heated up which causes the higher temperature. I also assumed thatvthis could burn the cells up in the battery.
loonatik78 said:
Over in the dInc forum someone put together a big set of charts relating to how that phone charges. It's battery technology is identical to the Tbolt so I assume it would apply. In short, no, you cannot overcharge the phone. What's damaging to the phone is being left in a fully, or nearly fully charged state for extended portions of the battery's life. The ideal long-term storage charge for a Lithium polymer battery is basically the charge that it comes with from the factory.
From all that I've read....
Lithium Ion/polymer batteries have top and bottom thresholds for min and max charge. Below a point, the materials become damaged, and above a point, they become damaged as well. This is unlike a car battery where you can basically suck nearly every volt out of it then recharge it like new. A lithium battery yields only about 1/2 to 1/3 of it's total charge before it's technically "dead". And the voltage drop relative to charge state isn't linear either. Over the useful life of the battery, the voltage drop is relatively slight. Once it begins to drop off more sharply, it's displaying characteristics of being "dead". A lithium battery is assumed to be fully charged when one of 2 things happens; the temperature begins to rise under an unchanged charge input, or the voltage/resistance inside the battery begins to rise. The latter is the method HTC devices use because it largely eliminates the environmental variable of temperature which can vary wildly between a purse, a hot car, an ice arena, or an air conditioned home. Additionally, circuitry is installed on the battery itself to prevent an overcharge state and over-temperature state because these two conditions can easily cause the battery to explode. And lithium will react violently to any form of moisture.... like your skin. The internal circuitry also includes a fuse which will destroy the battery by breaking the contact the internal cells have with external circuitry in the even of moisture saturation due to the risk of thermal runaway my means of short circuit.
As users of HTC devices, or any Li-Io devices may notice, unplugging immediately after charging is complete will prevent a sudden drop off in available battery percentage. This is because the charge has stopped and will not begin again until a min threshold has been reached, usually around 95%. This isn't a flaw with the battery, phone or charger. Tiamat kernels come in forms that will prevent this, but will damage the life of the battery in doing so.
ziggy471.com has some good info on these batteries, as does the thread in the dInc forum. Not sure exactly what forum or thread over there, but a quick search should yield it.
And that's pretty much all I can tell you about lithium-polymer batteries!
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Thanks, that was very informational.
_Stomp_ said:
I guess this would be OK if I had money to throw away. Buying batteries can get very expensive. One of my main reasons forvthinking overcharging is very possible was because I have noticed that when my phone is plugged in and I am using it, it tends to get very hot. From my understanding, while the phone is charging the current causes the batteries cells to heat up, which creates the charge. Once the battery is fully charged I assumed the cells were still being heated up which causes the higher temperature. I also assumed thatvthis could burn the cells up in the battery.
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The device will switch off before damage to the battery is done. I've done it repeated with a couple phones.
Li polymer batteries generate heat as energy is puller from them at a high rate. So if you watch a movie on your phone or have some other program running for extended periods it will get hot. Also if you expose it to oxygen the polymer get high unstable and extremely hot. That's why they tell you not to puncture them. Remember kids in apocalypse time Li ion batteries make great fire starters.
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mcpo117 said:
Li polymer batteries generate heat as energy is puller from them at a high rate. So if you watch a movie on your phone or have some other program running for extended periods it will get hot. Also if you expose it to oxygen the polymer get high unstable and extremely hot. That's why they tell you not to puncture them. Remember kids in apocalypse time Li ion batteries make great fire starters.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA Premium App
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So do magnesium motorcycle clutch covers!
Related
Updated and simplified version here : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3846897#post3846897
I've been around this forum for some time now and I have noticed one thing that is spelled in all sub-forums: BATTERY LIFE
So I thought of pulling some info together that is relevant to our Raphs (Li-ion batteries), taken from www.batteryuniversity.com.
Hope you find it helpful and understand better behaviour of your battery
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About the Author
Isidor Buchmann is the founder and CEO of Cadex Electronics Inc., in Vancouver BC.
Mr. Buchmann has a background in radio communications and has studied the behavior of rechargeable batteries in practical, everyday applications for two decades. Award winning author of many articles and books on batteries, Mr. Buchmann has delivered technical papers around the world.
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"If possible, do not discharge lithium-based batteries too deeply. Instead, recharge more often."
Lithium-ion is a low maintenance battery, an advantage that most other chemistries cannot claim. There is no memory and no scheduled cycling is required to prolong the battery's life. In addition, the self-discharge is less than half compared to nickel-cadmium, making lithium-ion well suited for modern fuel gauge applications.
Charging
There is only one way to charge lithium-based batteries. The so-called 'miracle chargers', which claim to restore and prolong batteries, do not exist for lithium chemistries. Neither does super-fast charging apply. Manufacturers of lithium-ion cells have very strict guidelines in charge procedures and the pack should be charged as per the manufacturers "typical" charge technique.
Lithium-ion is a very clean system and does not need priming as nickel-based batteries do. The 1st charge is no different to the 5th or the 50th charge. Stickers instructing to charge the battery for 8 hours or more for the first time may be a leftover from the nickel battery days.
Most cells are charged to 4.20 volts with a tolerance of +/?0.05V/cell. Charging only to 4.10V reduced the capacity by 10% but provides a longer service life. Newer cell are capable of delivering a good cycle count with a charge to 4.20 volts per cell.
A lithium-ion battery provides 300-500 discharge/charge cycles. The battery prefers a partial rather than a full discharge. Frequent full discharges should be avoided when possible. Instead, charge the battery more often or use a larger battery. There is no concern of memory when applying unscheduled charges.
Batteries live longer if treated in a gentle manner. High charge voltages, excessive charge rate and extreme load conditions have a negative effect on battery life. The longevity is often a direct result of the environmental stresses applied. The following guidelines suggest ways to prolong battery life.
The time at which the battery stays at 4.20/cell should be as short as possible. Prolonged high voltage promotes corrosion, especially at elevated temperatures. Spinel is less sensitive to high voltage.
The lower charge current reduces the time in which the cell resides at 4.20V. A 0.5C charge only adds marginally to the charge time over 1C because the topping charge will be shorter. A high current charge tends to push the voltage into voltage limit prematurely.
Do not discharge lithium-ion too deeply. Instead, charge it frequently. Lithium-ion does not have memory problems like nickel-cadmium batteries. No deep discharges are needed for conditioning.
Do not charge lithium-ion at or below freezing temperature. Although accepting charge, an irreversible plating of metallic lithium will occur that compromises the safety of the pack.
Not only does a lithium-ion battery live longer with a slower charge rate; moderate discharge rates also helps.
Discharge of the lithium-ion battery is 5% in the first 24 hours after charge, and then reduces to 1% to 2% per month thereafter. The safety circuit adds about 3%. High cycle count and aging have little effect on the self-discharge of lithium-based batteries.
The battery industry is making incremental capacity gains of 8-10% per year. This trend is expected to continue. This, however, is a far cry from Moore's Law that specifies a doubling of transistors on a chip every 18 to 24 months. Translating this increase to a battery would mean a doubling of capacity every two years. Instead of two years, lithium-ion has doubled its energy capacity in 10 years.
Although lithium-ion is memory-free in terms of performance deterioration, batteries with fuel gauges exhibit what engineers refer to as "digital memory". Here is the reason: Short discharges with subsequent recharges do not provide the periodic calibration needed to synchronize the fuel gauge with the battery's state-of-charge. A deliberate full discharge and recharge every 30 charges corrects this problem. Letting the battery run down to the cut-off point in the equipment will do this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate.
Despite its overall advantages, lithium-ion has its drawbacks. It is fragile and requires a protection circuit to maintain safe operation. Built into each pack, the protection circuit limits the peak voltage of each cell during charge and prevents the cell voltage from dropping too low on discharge. In addition, the cell temperature is monitored to prevent temperature extremes. The maximum charge and discharge current on most packs are is limited to between 1C and 2C. With these precautions in place, the possibility of metallic lithium plating occurring due to overcharge is virtually eliminated.
The worst condition is keeping a fully charged battery at elevated temperatures, which is the case with running laptop batteries. If used on main power, the battery inside a laptop will only last for 12-18 months. I must hasten to explain that the pack does not die suddenly but begins with reduced run-times.
The voltage level to which the cells are charged also plays an important role to longevity. For safety reasons, most lithium-ion cannot exceed 4.20 volts per cell. While a higher voltage boosts capacity, the disadvantage is lower cycle life.
"how deep can a battery be discharged and still achieve maximum service life?" There are no definite answers. Batteries are like us humans. Suppose we ate all the vegetables our mother heaped on our plates and do our daily exercise, would we life longer? Perhaps. But by how much, no one will know. Batteries lose capacity as part of aging, cycling and exposure to heat. Nickel-cadmium also loses capacity due to lack of exercise because of memory.
Some lithium-ion batteries fail due to excessive low discharge. If discharged below 2.5 volts per cell, the internal safety circuit opens and the battery appears dead.
Aging is a concern with most lithium-ion batteries and many manufacturers remain silent about this issue. Some capacity deterioration is noticeable after one year, whether the battery is in use or not.
Lithium-ion batteries lose capacity through cell oxidation, a process that occurs naturally during use and aging. The typical life span of lithium-ion is 2-3 years under normal use. Cool storage a 40% charge minimizes aging. An aged lithium-ion cannot be restored with cycling.
Shorted Cells
Manufacturers are often unable to explain why some cells develop high electrical leakage or an electrical short while still relatively new. The suspected culprit is foreign particles that contaminate the cells during manufacturing.
Cell reversal caused by deep discharging also contributes to shorted cells.Specified to deliver 100% capacity when new, the battery should be replaced when the capacity drops to below 80% of the nominal rating.
The self-discharge on all battery chemistries increase at higher temperatures. Typically, the rate doubles with every 10°C (18°F). A noticeable energy loss occurs if a battery is left in a hot vehicle.
Premature voltage cut-off
Not all stored battery power can be fully utilized. Some equipment cuts off before the designated end-of-discharge voltage is reached and precious battery energy remains unused. Applications demanding high current bursts push the battery voltage to an early cut-off. This is especially visible on batteries with elevated internal resistance. The voltage recovers when the load is removed and the battery appears normal. Discharging such a battery on a moderate load with a battery analyzer to the respective end-of-discharge threshold will sometimes produce residual capacity readings of 30% and higher.
Counterfeit cell phone batteries (clone batteries)
In the search for low-cost battery replacements, consumers may inadvertently purchase clone cell phone batteries that do not include an approved protection circuit. Lithium-ion packs require a protection circuit to shut off the power source if the charger malfunctions and keep on charging, or if the pack is put under undue stress (electrical short). Overheating and 'venting with flame' can be the result of such strain.
Cell phone manufacturers strongly advise customers to replace the battery with an approved brand. Failing to do so may void the warranty. Counterfeit cell phone batteries have become visible since the beginning of 2003 when the world was being flooded with cheap replacement batteries from Asia.
Cell phone manufacturers act out of genuine concern for safety rather than using scare tactics to persuade customers to buy their own accessories. They do not object to third party suppliers in offering batteries and chargers as long as the products are well built, safe and functioning. The buyer can often not distinguish between an original and a counterfeit battery because the label may appear bona fide.
Caution should also be exercised in purchasing counterfeit chargers. Some units do not terminate the battery correctly and rely on the battery's internal protection circuit to cut off the power when fully charged. Precise full-charge termination and a working protection circuit are needed for the safe use of the lithium-ion battery.
A large number of lithium-ion batteries for cell phones are being discarded under the warranty return policy. Some failed batteries are sent to service centers or the manufacturer, where they are refurbished. Studies show that 80%-90% of the returned batteries can be repaired and returned to service.
© Copyright 2003 - 2005 Isidor Buchmann
Thanks, very good read.
It explains why when flashing a new ROM I felt that I needed to discharge and recharge fully the battery to have an accurate reading.
lots of dispelled rumors and myths ! thanks for the post , its really informative .
i really do hope that capacity goes up though , it would be cool to not have to charge for like 4 days or something crazy lol.
excellent read!
now if I may ask, how dense cells can be packed into a battery? this relates to the min size versus max capacity of a Li-on battery pack.
There's also an issue with the device not reading the battery accurately.
I've read somewhere that full discharge once every 3 months or so is helpful not because of the chemistry, but because how the device reads/calculates full capacity.
g2tl said:
There's also an issue with the device not reading the battery accurately.
I've read somewhere that full discharge once every 3 months or so is helpful not because of the chemistry, but because how the device reads/calculates full capacity.
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I would think that would only apply to the clone batteries.
Originally Posted by g2tl
There's also an issue with the device not reading the battery accurately.
I've read somewhere that full discharge once every 3 months or so is helpful not because of the chemistry, but because how the device reads/calculates full capacity.
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Kraize said:
I would think that would only apply to the clone batteries.
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sorry. disagree. at least from my experience, both original and 'clone' alike need full discharge every now and then.
side note: with overwhelming numbers of batteries or any other components being made in China, who would safely label one is 'original' and the other is 'clone'? God knows.
BumAround said:
sorry. disagree. at least from my experience, both original and 'clone' alike need full discharge every now and then.
side note: with overwhelming numbers of batteries or any other components being made in China, who would safely label one is 'original' and the other is 'clone'? God knows.
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10/4...if I just may quote what is written in post 1: "..A deliberate full discharge and recharge every 30 charges corrects this problem ("memory" effect). Letting the battery run down to the cut-off point in the equipment will do this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate..."
BumAround said:
excellent read!
now if I may ask, how dense cells can be packed into a battery? this relates to the min size versus max capacity of a Li-on battery pack.
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From what I understand density is controled by proper voltage (3,7 in our case). With different type of batteries you can do "shock" therapy and temporarly overload the current of charging to reformat cells. So I guess it depends on chemical mix in your particular battery, because as we've learned those chemicals are being replaced with different ones and very often by manufaturers and to us consumers it might seem we use same batteries, but technically speaking exact same batteries bought in different places may perform differently just because of what's inside. Not speaking of aging effect which is the worst out of all batteries (process starts right after battery is manufactured and no matter if is used or not, therefore li-ion batteries are kind of like vegetables-not good if too old )
bauerpavel said:
10/4...if I just may quote what is written in post 1: "..A deliberate full discharge and recharge every 30 charges corrects this problem ("memory" effect). Letting the battery run down to the cut-off point in the equipment will do this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate..."
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hmm, I must have skipped over that part while scrolling down.
Thx for the confirmation.
Easy way to discharge battery quickly, Flash your phone 4 or 5 times in a row, always seems to nuke my phone when testing ROMs while cooking!!
Great post
This should be made one of the stickies, not in the ROM thread though, maybe in the accessory thread?
gmgonzal said:
This should be made one of the stickies, not in the ROM thread though, maybe in the accessory thread?
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I'm planning on moving it to just "Raphael" section....as for the stickie, that's not my call
PS:Thread moved to more "appropriate" section "Raphael" rather than "ROM Development"
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=518861 ....sorry for confusion!
Admin please close this thread.
Not too fast...
B4PJS said:
Easy way to discharge battery quickly...
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The article mentioned it was wise to avoid stressful discharges as well as fast charging.
Not only does a lithium-ion battery live longer with a slower charge rate; moderate discharge rates also helps
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It makes the case for those .5 car chargers and charging from the USB port…David.
Why "deep battery cycling" or "conditioning," is bad for your battery
In summary, "conditioning" your battery is only good for calibrating the tools which predict how long your battery will last.
I.e. people seem to be recommending that new phones should be completely discharged a few times and then fully recharged. In some cases, people are recommending that the phones be left discharged for long periods of time before recharging. THIS IS A BAD IDEA AND WILL NOT HELP BATTERY LIFE.
Again, you can do this to calibrate the battery monitor, but this will not help the battery itself.
Here's a quote from wikipedia *since I am a new user I can't directly link but go to en(DOT)wikipedia(DOT)org/wiki/Li-ion_battery
Like many rechargeable batteries, lithium-ion batteries should be charged early and often. However, if they are not used for a long time, they should be brought to a charge level of around 40%–60%
Lithium-ion batteries should not be frequently discharged fully and recharged ("deep-cycled"), but this may be necessary after about every 30th recharge to recalibrate any electronic charge monitor (e.g. a battery meter). This allows the monitoring electronics to more accurately estimate battery charge.[27] This has nothing to do with the memory effect.
Li-ion batteries should never be depleted to below their minimum voltage, 2.4 V to 3.0 V per cell.
Li-ion batteries should be kept cool. Ideally they are stored in a refrigerator. Aging will take its toll much faster at high temperatures. The high temperatures found in cars cause lithium-ion batteries to degrade rapidly.
Li-ion batteries should not be frozen [50] (most lithium-ion battery electrolytes freeze at approximately −40 °C; however, this is much colder than the lowest temperature reached by household freezers).
Li-ion batteries should be bought only when needed, because the aging process begins as soon as the battery is manufactured.[27]
When using a notebook computer running from fixed line power over extended periods, consider removing the battery[51] and storing it in a cool place so that it is not affected by the heat produced by the computer.
Hope this helps someone.
Thank you DarkDvr, wikipedia credits to him
Also, feel free to read up at batteryuniversity(DOT)com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
*again, this is my first post so it wont let me link directly.
Good read. Al though, this is XDA after all and you will be flamed for using wikipedia as as a source. Just giving you heads up.
Lejjvi said:
Good read. Al though, this is XDA after all and you will be flamed for using wikipedia as as a source. Just giving you heads up.
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"battery conditioning" is only bad if you do it all the time and drain it completely dead often...
Lithium ion batteries don't really need this...
And should only be done if you think you have faulty battery stats due to flahing new software or roms....
We all know this and the people that don't now know.. thanks op for informing the uninformed!
sent from a 3devo
You need to condition it for the phones software as well... Otherwise it will shut off before the battery is actually dead. But yes, you shouldn't do it all the time.
People confuse why I needs to be done is all.
Yeah, should change the title. It's misleading.
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D.
there is a diffrence between a deep cycle and a normal cycle.they are only resistant to developing a memory.
Yes, I know this xda, but this after reading some of the multiple battery life threads it seemed like there was some misinformation floating around. I mean, I know batteries are the cheapest part of the phone and easy to replace, but still. No point in going through all the trouble of multiple deep cycles when it actually does harm to the battery.
Also, I wonder what the people with 2 batteries do, and how this affects the battery meter. Or, if you switch to a higher capacity battery. At what point does the unit recalibrate itself?
So I have had mine sitting here all packaged up since tuesday.
And im looking to now actually open it and play with it,
Do you recommend I charge to full when off, or on? Perhaps run it dry and then charge it up?
You used to be told, Charge it for 8 hours before you use it...
That surely can't be true of todays rechargeable battery technology?
[Q] charging and battery damage
If I leave my touchpad on the touchstone charger for long periods and the touchpad is switched on will this damage the battery?
I know I have had laptops and always ran them of the mains and the battery has stopped holding a charge.
Cheers.
I assume that the touchpad has a charging circuit that stops it charging when the battery is full, but batteries will always fail after a while regardless. Lithium batteries are best charged often and not let run down too much in between.
Also, dson't let a lithium battery run down completely, you can significantly shorten its life doing that.
Troute said:
Also, dson't let a lithium battery run down completely, you can significantly shorten its life doing that.
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source? I thought lithium battery had no memory.
It's not a memory issue, running a lithium battery flat (deep discharging) has a physical effect on it where it will lose it's ability to recharge to as high a level as the previous charge. Each time this happens the battery loses more of it's ability to reach an effective voltage.
Don't take my word for it, do your own research, there's plenty of information out there it internet land.
alexhayuk said:
If I leave my touchpad on the touchstone charger for long periods and the touchpad is switched on will this damage the battery?
I know I have had laptops and always ran them of the mains and the battery has stopped holding a charge.
Cheers.
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The dev for Dr.battery's has a thread that states that leaving your Touchpad on the touchstone for long periods of time should not impact the battery. Due to it switching to powering the unit after its charged. Though he is doing some testing on that. Also his app should be updated soon for the Touchpad (available through preware). I am still going to contact HP to discuss this as well. I would hate to damage a non replaceable battery. Will update if I have any new info.
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using xda premium
Troute said:
It's not a memory issue, running a lithium battery flat (deep discharging) has a physical effect on it where it will lose it's ability to recharge to as high a level as the previous charge. Each time this happens the battery loses more of it's ability to reach an effective voltage.
Don't take my word for it, do your own research, there's plenty of information out there it internet land.
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I have done my own research. That's why i don't think this is accurate.
If you have some proof please share.
Besides common aging, a Li-ion battery can also fail because of undercharge. This occurs if a Li-ion pack is stored in a discharged condition. Self-discharge gradually lowers the voltage of the already discharged battery and the protection circuit cuts off between 2.20 and 2.90V/cell.
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http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Basically through normal use you can probably expect around 250-300 full charge cycles (partial charges only count as partial and add up with other partial charges to be a full cycle) in an average battery pack before it has degraded to 80% of it's original capacity. I don't see anything that point to full discharges being damaging. However storing it for longer periods of time fully discharged can affect life.
ambivalent-one I think the figure of 250-300 charge cycles you've pulled from that page refer to deep discharge cycle tests done by them, personally I'd be very unhappy with that kind of lifespan in a battery in regular usage. The same page you've posted http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries shows a chart of charge cycles versus depth of discharge.
Table 2: Cycle life and depth of discharge
A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life. Elevated temperature and high currents also affect cycle life.
Charges - Depth of Discharge
500 - 100% DoD
1500 - 50% DoD
2500 - 25% DoD
4700 - 10% DoD
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As you can see a L-ion battery can be made to last nearly ten times longer by keeping the charge level up near max.
Quote from http://www.batterieswholesale.com/damaging_batteries.htm
The Li-Ion cell should never be allowed to drop below about 2.4V, or an internal chemical reaction will occur where one of the battery electrodes can oxidize (corrode) through a process which can not be reversed by recharging. If this occurs, battery capacity will be lost (and the cell may be completely destroyed)
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karan1203 if you reckon the information about deep discharge not accurate, can you provide the results of your own research that shows this?
Just let it die the first time, then charge when under 5%.
karan1203 said:
I have done my own research. That's why i don't think this is accurate.
If you have some proof please share.
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Your research must've been incredibly basic in that case. The 2nd result I get when Googling "lithium batteries" gives me the wikipedia page which has a small amount of into on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
Look at the "Safety requirements" section for a start.
Also Google "lithium batteries discharge" returns some useful links.
Anybody have tips on the subject? I was reading around and read multiple articles on this. Many said do not keep it on the charger after it has reached 100%. This poses a problem, because the G2 will charge from 0-100 in nearly 1 hour and 30 minutes, and i like to keep it on the charger while i sleep. Does the G2 have software to prevent this? It does say to please remove charger to conserve energy when its full.
Any replies are much appreciated
Sent from my LG-D800 using xda app-developers app
Well i read also that you shouldnt charge it to 100% frequently
2. You shouldnt let the battery charge drop under 20 frequently Before recharging
3. You shouldnt let the battery run out of charge frequently because our battery will get damaged if u do that quite often
so beware of this point
And they said it's not best to let the phone charge over night frequently
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I am no expert in this area - but this is what i do and i seem to get great battery life. i just looked, my device has been on battery for 3.5 hours and i'm still at 100% with usage in the following areas...
Google serviced - 29%
Android system - 22%
Screen - 17%
this is with wifi on, approx 5 min worth of voice calling, and several text messages, couple min of facebook and G+. i am not rooted, running stock launcher with most recent tmobile software update (unlocked and using it on Bell).
I hard reset my device once a month (minimum) - not sure if this does anything, but i am a little OCD when it come to my devices.
Before hard reset...
1. charge device to 100%
2. keep device plugged in for ~15 min after fully charged. The unplug.
3. hard reset device
4. once booted, plug device in a proceed to setup and install programs
5. unplug device once complete
During the day...
I always keep it charged up...i dont usually let it get below 75% (if possible). I'm always around a charger/plug at my work.
During the night...
1. charge device to 100% before going to bed
2. before you go to sleep, unplug device and put it in airplane mode
3. when you get up - turn off airplane mode and plug in for ~15 min or so
Again - im no expert, but this is working for me so imma stick to it!
It is not recommended to keep your phone plugged in after it has reached 100%. Only do it when you need an extra battery boost for the day (and that's hopefully not every day).
The general rule is to charge it from 40%-80% and that partial charges are better than full charges.
I really wish people would stop with the "don't keep it on the charger" nonsense which then makes people think they need to micromanage the charge cycle.
Charge early and often. Don't intentionally drain it down to some low percent, just charge nightly and you should be fine. If you're heavily using the phone, try to avoid dropping below 30%. Heavier discharges cause faster ageing.
And avoid keeping it in a hot environment, north of 30C. If it's your car GPS, keep a vent blowing cool air on it, especially in the summer. During the winter make sure a vent isn't blowing hot air on it.
Heat is probably the primary variable in battery life, followed by heavy discharge cycles.
Do whatever you want regarding keeping it charging after it's full. But disagreeing doesn't make your statement correct. I do agree with your statements about heat, however.
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
just charge the thing and use it, I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 2-3 years ago the battery still going strong, most of you dont even own a phone past a year.
I usually make my phone go as long as it can. My previous phone, an iPhone 4, lasted almost three years.
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
vPro97 said:
I usually make my phone go as long as it can. My previous phone, an iPhone 4, lasted almost three years.
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the battery will last 3 years, its lithium battery, some people still own old phones like Iphone 4 and the battery still good.
battery is battery, just dont let it over heat and it'll be fine. stop trying to squeeze every second out of the battery and enjoy the phone...
I always thought it stopped charging at 100 but when it looses a little bit on the charger it charges it back. I thought that's why it said to conserve energy....as in energy from your house.
Sent from my VS980 4G using xda app-developers app
It's an established fact that keeping the phone at charged state between 40%-80% is most optimal (causes least stress) for the battery.
But of course, don't let that get in the way of your daily usage routine and cause you incovenience.
Battery is, afterall, consumable and is meant to be replaced.
I'm afraid there are lots of ill-informed people who insist that their batteries do not deteriorate. Congrats to them, they just find the solution that solves the global energy crisis.
How Often Should I Charge My Gadget's Battery to Prolong Its Lifespan?
http://lifehacker.com/5875162/how-often-should-i-charge-my-gadgets-battery-to-prolong-its-lifespan
If you like to get more technical, there's good information from the Pros.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Here's my notes from a few years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------
Li-Ion Battery
(From Wiki) During discharge, lithium ions Li+ carry the current from the negative to the positive electrode, through the non-aqueous electrolyte
and separator diaphragm.[7]
During charging, an external electrical power source (the charging circuit) applies a higher voltage (but of the same polarity) than that
produced by the battery, forcing the current to pass in the reverse direction. The lithium ions then migrate from the positive to the
negative electrode, where they become embedded in the porous electrode material in a process known as intercalation.
Prolonging battery pack life (from wiki)
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses, the smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last.
+ Avoid storing the battery in full discharged state.
+ Li-ion batteries should be kept cool; they may be stored in a refrigerator.
+ The rate of degradation of Li-ion batteries is strongly temperature-dependent; they degrade much faster if stored or used at higher temperatures.
+ Li-ion has no memory effect.
+ Li-ion does not need to be fully charged.
+ In fact, it is better NOT to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery.
+ Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge, and when fully charged the charge current must be cut off =>
+ To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the 4.20V/cell peak voltage as short a time as possible. (meaning do NOT overcharge)
+ Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and
can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles.
What does that mean to us? Don't use when it's plugged in?
+ A portable device must be turned off during charge. This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current.
+ Li-ion should never be discharged too low.
+ Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries (from batteryuniversity.com)
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach
the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to
terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
+ Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
+ Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
+ Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
+ Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
+ Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Conclusion:
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging.
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
G1_enthusiast said:
just charge the thing and use it, I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 2-3 years ago the battery still going strong, most of you dont even own a phone past a year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had (and still have) the Samsung Galaxy S2 for over 2 years, and I had to replace the battery a little over half a year ago due to the dreaded battery bulge (I could spin my battery on the table). So yes, batteries do go bad and they can go bad in a short period of time. And yes, if this happens to the G2 with its non-removeable battery, that really sucks.
beezar said:
I've had (and still have) the Samsung Galaxy S2 for over 2 years, and I had to replace the battery a little over half a year ago due to the dreaded battery bulge (I could spin my battery on the table). So yes, batteries do go bad and they can go bad in a short period of time. And yes, if this happens to the G2 with its non-removeable battery, that really sucks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
did you leave it in 150 degrees heat?
I almost always turn off my phone if I know its gonna be 100+ outside and 150 in my car. its commonsense.
votinh said:
Here's my notes from a few years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------
Li-Ion Battery
(From Wiki) During discharge, lithium ions Li+ carry the current from the negative to the positive electrode, through the non-aqueous electrolyte
and separator diaphragm.[7]
During charging, an external electrical power source (the charging circuit) applies a higher voltage (but of the same polarity) than that
produced by the battery, forcing the current to pass in the reverse direction. The lithium ions then migrate from the positive to the
negative electrode, where they become embedded in the porous electrode material in a process known as intercalation.
Prolonging battery pack life (from wiki)
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses, the smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last.
+ Avoid storing the battery in full discharged state.
+ Li-ion batteries should be kept cool; they may be stored in a refrigerator.
+ The rate of degradation of Li-ion batteries is strongly temperature-dependent; they degrade much faster if stored or used at higher temperatures.
+ Li-ion has no memory effect.
+ Li-ion does not need to be fully charged.
+ In fact, it is better NOT to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery.
+ Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge, and when fully charged the charge current must be cut off =>
+ To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the 4.20V/cell peak voltage as short a time as possible. (meaning do NOT overcharge)
+ Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and
can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles.
What does that mean to us? Don't use when it's plugged in?
+ A portable device must be turned off during charge. This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current.
+ Li-ion should never be discharged too low.
+ Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries (from batteryuniversity.com)
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach
the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to
terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
+ Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
+ Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
+ Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
+ Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
+ Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Conclusion:
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging.
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because it is on a wiki does not mean it is correct. Anyone that purports that current flows from negative to positive, is clearly not an engineer, and thus not a subject matter expert (I stopped reading right there so excuse if I'm repeating).
Heat, be it from charging, discharging, or environment, and over discharge, or improper charging are the primary reasons batteries lose capacity. Lithium polymer batteries will lose some of its initial capacity after a thousand or so charge-discharge cycles, but this is very much dependent on the charging rate used to charge the battery. If the charge rate is 0.5C or less, there is much less capacity loss (if any) over time. Charge rates of 1C and over, generate significant heat that deteriorates the cell chemistry over time, reducing capacity.
If I can ever kill my battery enough, I'll throw this phone on my charge profiler at work to see what charge rate it uses.
BTW, my two year old GSII is on its original battery and lasts all day with 40% left at the end of the day. I charge over night with no ill effects, but I never expose the phone to excessive heat.
T
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk 2
I slow charge my phone using a 500mA iPhone Cube brick and microUSB cable for overnight charging. Charging this way takes hours. I use quick charge in my car and office if needed.
A good charger should trickle charge once its 100% just to keep it up.
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
So our phones do not come with a good charger?
Sent from my VS980 4G using xda app-developers app
tedkunich said:
Just because it is on a wiki does not mean it is correct. Anyone that purports that current flows from negative to positive, is clearly not an engineer, and thus not a subject matter expert (I stopped reading right there so excuse if I'm repeating).
Heat, be it from charging, discharging, or environment, and over discharge, or improper charging are the primary reasons batteries lose capacity. Lithium polymer batteries will lose some of its initial capacity after a thousand or so charge-discharge cycles, but this is very much dependent on the charging rate used to charge the battery. If the charge rate is 0.5C or less, there is much less capacity loss (if any) over time. Charge rates of 1C and over, generate significant heat that deteriorates the cell chemistry over time, reducing capacity.
If I can ever kill my battery enough, I'll throw this phone on my charge profiler at work to see what charge rate it uses.
BTW, my two year old GSII is on its original battery and lasts all day with 40% left at the end of the day. I charge over night with no ill effects, but I never expose the phone to excessive heat.
T
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You quoted my post to say that info on Wiki and Battery University is wrong? and giving an example of charging your SGS2 overnite with no ill effects to prove them wrong?
votinh said:
You quoted my post to say that info on Wiki and Battery University is wrong? and giving an example of charging your SGS2 overnite with no ill effects to prove them wrong?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said, I stopped reading the moment they stated the incorrect definition of current flow - if they got that basic tenant wrong, wasn't going to read further. Was not my intent to offend by quoting your post. My comment on the charging overnight was a general response to a prior post that leaving the device on the charger overnight was detrimental to the battery - probably should have quoted that post. In general, leaving an advanced device like a cellphone plugged into a charger will not overcharge a battery - a cheap toy will probably not have a proper charger and CAN damage a cell if left on for prolonged periods.
BTW, I'm an EE and design in Li-po batteries and chargers in my designs and I'm always dealing with non-technical marketing and sales folks to explain these types of details, so I tend to jump in when I hear wrong information (not saying the links contained false information) being discussed.
T
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
votinh said:
Here's my notes from a few years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------
Li-Ion Battery
(From Wiki) During discharge, lithium ions Li+ carry the current from the negative to the positive electrode, through the non-aqueous electrolyte
and separator diaphragm.[7]
During charging, an external electrical power source (the charging circuit) applies a higher voltage (but of the same polarity) than that
produced by the battery, forcing the current to pass in the reverse direction. The lithium ions then migrate from the positive to the
negative electrode, where they become embedded in the porous electrode material in a process known as intercalation.
Prolonging battery pack life (from wiki)
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses, the smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last.
+ Avoid storing the battery in full discharged state.
+ Li-ion batteries should be kept cool; they may be stored in a refrigerator.
+ The rate of degradation of Li-ion batteries is strongly temperature-dependent; they degrade much faster if stored or used at higher temperatures.
+ Li-ion has no memory effect.
+ Li-ion does not need to be fully charged.
+ In fact, it is better NOT to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery.
+ Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge, and when fully charged the charge current must be cut off =>
+ To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the 4.20V/cell peak voltage as short a time as possible. (meaning do NOT overcharge)
+ Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and
can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles.
What does that mean to us? Don't use when it's plugged in?
+ A portable device must be turned off during charge. This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current.
+ Li-ion should never be discharged too low.
+ Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries (from batteryuniversity.com)
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach
the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to
terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
+ Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
+ Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
+ Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
+ Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
+ Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Conclusion:
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging.
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does this wall of text pertain to lithium polymer as well? Consdering that is the type of battery in the phone not ion
Sent from my LG-VS980
I am seeing too many battery misconceptions. Let me clear them up.
STORAGE:
Lithium batteries like to sit around 50% for prolonged periods. If you need to power down your phone and store it, do it around 50-60%.
STATE OF CHAGE / BATTERY LEVEL
- It will NOT hurt to keep your phone on the charger. The charging circuitry cuts off power once the Cell hits 4.35 - 4.4v (If it did not, your battery would swell and heat up and then explode or catch on fire or both)
- It is MUCH more harmful to deplete the battery than it is to keep it full. Lithium batteries DO NOT like to go below a certain voltage depending on specific chemistry formulation.
For Example: Chevy Volt electric car Lithium battery is set to stay within 30% - 80%. They are limited to never exceed an SOC of 80% and never go below 30%. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt
To expand on this. It is BETTER to keep the phone at 95% than it is to keep it at 5% for example. I personally would NOT want my battery falling low enough that it gives a low battery indication (usually around 15%). Usually I do not want it hitting 30%. That's a good rule imho.
CHARGE AND DISCHARGE CURRENT
Lithium batteries prefer to be charged slowly and discharged slowly. They do NOT like high charge and drain.
You guessed it. AVOID high charge scenarios such as Fast Charge. AVOID fast discharge scenarios such as gaming with high brightness etc.
TEMPRATURE
Lithium batteries do not like getting hot. They don't even like getting warm. Getting hot hurts it. Getting warm isn't as bad but it DOES degrade the total capacity over time.
Again, this is usually caused due to high charge or discharge scenarios.
It also ties in with Fast charge, wireless charge and especially wireless fast charge. Wireless charging is not efficient and energy as wasted as heat.
Personally I disable fast charge and do not use wireless charging. Good old USB Type C already charges quickly enough for me.
TLDR: Disable Fast Charge. Try to use USB Type C charging instead of wireless charging. Disable stuff you don't actually use. Try to keep power save on even if using it with very little power saving settings. Try to keep brightness at a reasonable level and not too high (This reduces AMOLED degradation too).
Remember: THE BATTERY IS NOT EASILY REPLACEABLE IN THE NOTE 7 !!!!!!!! Therefore the more you baby it, the longer it will hold it's charge and the lower the chance of the battery going bad.
My old Notes (Note 2 and Note 4) both still have VERY good original batteries because they were well taken of.
Good luck !
But I like fast charging and wireless charging lol
Ironic that when your phone is new, this is when the battery gets hot and used a lot. Perhaps with the water resistant phones we should update the firmware and restore the backup under water to keep the phone cool!
I will be sure to disregard just about everything in here. Guy is spreading false panic.
Actually "store mode" example: found in 7420 kernel source is 60-70% capacity. There are a lot of checks within source including battery swell etc. Don't fret about things, use your device. It's not as delicate as you may think. Who cares about the efficiency of wireless charging. Great if you've got it
90% won't keep beyond 2 years, just enjoy the thing !!
UN-recognized Developer of my SkyHigh Kernel v5.8.x powered SM-N920C
UpInTheAir said:
Actually "store mode" example: found in 7420 kernel source is 60-70% capacity. There are a lot of checks within source including battery swell etc. Don't fret about things, use your device. It's not as delicate as you may think. Who cares about the efficiency of wireless charging. Great if you've got it
90% won't keep beyond 2 years, just enjoy the thing !!
UN-recognized Developer of my SkyHigh Kernel v5.8.x powered SM-N920C
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My device arrived at 59% charge, ties in with what you say about storage.