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I finally found a comparable tegra 2 bench posted online in a droid x 2 review, both devices have a qHD screen. It's looking like the hardware we have here isn't particularly impressive, and let's not even go there with the Galaxy s 2 *shudder*, it's a massacre.
I was to understand that the Qualcomm/Adreno setup was going to at least be competitive, and was supposed to be all out superior to Tegra 2. Can anyone shed some light on this?
Levito said:
I finally found a comparable tegra 2 bench posted online in a droid x 2 review, both devices have a qHD screen. It's looking like the hardware we have here isn't particularly impressive, and let's not even go there with the Galaxy s 2 *shudder*, it's a massacre.
I was to understand that the Qualcomm/Adreno setup was going to at least be competitive, and was supposed to be all out superior to Tegra 2. Can anyone shed some light on this?
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Click to collapse
I don't look at benchmarks too much... but it can download n' upload like a God that's its power tool
My overlocked 1.5 Ghz tegra 2 lags behind my EVO 3D but it scores 900 more points in quadrant so my epeen feels alright. Seriously most of these benchmarks are not coded well.
I think the 3vo uses only one core with quadrant. You have to use a dual core benchmark test like CF Bench for better results. Then again benchmarks really don't mean much.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
Benchmarks are nearly useless measures.
Using benchmarks to determine real world performance is like licking your finger and sticking it up in the air to determine how fast the wind is moving.
Yeah, it'll put you roughly in the ballpark--roughly. But that ''ballpark'' is big enough to drive a couple dump trucks through...
Both the droid x2 and the galaxy s2 aren't running sense, which usually drags down bench marks even though the phone is silky smooth. Benchmarks may be useful for testing modifications on the same phone, but not for comparing different phones. Just ask yourself... Does it seem to suffer to you?
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Who gives a #$% about benchmarks, all I know is that this thing is fast, way faster than the EVO. I have a gTablet (tegra 2, Honeycomb) that runs games very well and this 3VO runs the same games but only smoother and faster, no hiccups at all. Totally happy here and I have like 200 apps on this thing and I have like 280 megs left.
Oh, and my gTablet is clocked to 1.5ghz!
G_Dmaxx said:
Who gives a #$% about benchmarks, all I know is that this thing is fast, way faster than the EVO. I have a gTablet (tegra 2, Honeycomb) that runs games very well and this 3VO runs the same games but only smoother and faster, no hiccups at all. Totally happy here and I have like 200 apps on this thing and I have like 280 megs left.
Oh, and my gTablet is clocked to 1.5ghz!
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Click to collapse
Seriously my Tegra 2 Transformer has nothing on my EVO 3D. Why people look only at benchmarks and not what is in front of them I have no clue.
danaff37 said:
Both the droid x2 and the galaxy s2 aren't running sense, which usually drags down bench marks even though the phone is silky smooth. Benchmarks may be useful for testing modifications on the same phone, but not for comparing different phones. Just ask yourself... Does it seem to suffer to you?
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I've actually never had an AOSP rom run all that much faster than a Sense rom. Enough of a variance to say that there isn't a difference at all.
Like many others have pointed out. Quadrants is a terrible bench for dualcore phones until it's updated. When it reads off a bunch of question marks as the evo3ds CPU, CPU speed,etc. You know its not going to be a reliable test.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
Go to anand-tech for the Adreno 220 benches... It crushed the competition so maybe that'll make you feel better.
1 possible reason why the EVO 3D isn't scoring as high as you expect is because I think the benchmark tests don't utilize CPU's with asynchonous dual cores correctly.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Galaxy uses synchonous cores which mean they can only work on the same thing at the same time, they can't work on separate operations at the same time.
The EVO 3D has asynchonous cores which allow for true multitasking meaning each core will work on separate tasks. As I understand it, support for this type of CPU is going to be added in Android 2.4 and later, but don't quote me on that.
LOL @ benchmarks
DDiaz007 said:
Go to anand-tech for the Adreno 220 benches... It crushed the competition so maybe that'll make you feel better.
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Any similar comparisons to the exynos/mali(?) that the sgs 2 is packing?
Some of the above statements about asynchronous processing do make me feel better if true.
Levito said:
Any similar comparisons to the exynos/mali(?) that the sgs 2 is packing?
Some of the above statements about asynchronous processing do make me feel better if true.
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Click to collapse
Why not feel good in the first place?
This phone screams. You're comparing it to a Moto phone with Tegra 2 which will likely be one of the last new phones with Tegra 2. Enjoy the 3D. By the time something comes around to crush it, we'll be into 4 core territory, or Android will be updated to better support multiple cores (if I remember right, this was only really started for 3.0).
I'll agree the SGS2 seems like a killer but I'll take HTC build quality over Samsung any day of the week. Plus, let's see Exynos pushing qHD.
No I hear you. Truth is that there probably won't be any software written for quite sometime that is going to really push our current hardware. Besides I upgrade every year or so anyway, making future proofing less of an issue for me.
It's the principle of the thing.
Levito said:
No I hear you. Truth is that there probably won't be any software written for quite sometime that is going to really push our current hardware. Besides I upgrade every year or so anyway, making future proofing less of an issue for me.
It's the principle of the thing.
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Click to collapse
I hear ya too, but you gotta try not to get caught up in numbers. Numbers can be manipulated. Manufacturers can tune their phones to perform better in Quadrant (this can also be done with custom ROMs; when it is, performance in other categories suffers). AMD and Intel still participate in this ePeen warfare.
I won't be surprised if we see that Evo 3D outperforms the Tegra Moto overall.
The good thing is, we will eventually see this thing rooted completely (hopefully not after it's lost most of its luster). THEN we will see what we can push out of this phone. Look how fast it's running sense. Imagine a vanilla Android experience on it, or an overclock to say, 1.8 GHz (which will probably happen). I dunno about you but I'm salivating.
Ok, the only benchmark I need to know is that my phone boots up from "off" in 10-12 seconds. Base your satisfaction on a constant, not on relativism.
megatron-g1 said:
1 possible reason why the EVO 3D isn't scoring as high as you expect is because I think the benchmark tests don't utilize CPU's with asynchonous dual cores correctly.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Galaxy uses synchonous cores which mean they can only work on the same thing at the same time, they can't work on separate operations at the same time.
The EVO 3D has asynchonous cores which allow for true multitasking meaning each core will work on separate tasks. As I understand it, support for this type of CPU is going to be added in Android 2.4 and later, but don't quote me on that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Should be no difference to code for asynchronous or synchronous. The cores will run at full speed if they're pushed. Quadrant scores are more based on database read and write speeds than anything.
I've owned many many phones, and this one is by far the most fluid (although I have not had hands on with the Galaxy SII, but I hate Samsung's software)
I haven't run into a case where the phone stutters, have you?
I believe in the Anandtech benchmarks, they used a developer phone that has the same qualcomm chipset running at the stock 1.5ghz, while our phones were downclocked to 1.2ghz.
They might have done this for various reasons, it would be interesting to see how our phones overclock and if there's any changes in battery life.
I realize that this is the Vibrant forum, but it is the general section... so dont get too pissed about me posting a thread not really vibrant related.
So just thinking about processors (that may come come in the Nexus Prime), the two being rumored are Samsungs Exynos and the TI OMAP, from what i can tell.
How do these processors compare? In general the Exynos is generally regarded as better then the snapdragon (not trying to argue either way), but there are plenty of comparisons and topics on this comparison, but how does the Exynos compare to the OMAP? I can really find too many topics on it..
Thanks
Doesn't really matter how it compares right now, because Google can optimize ICS to run fast on Ti-OMAP 4460 while slow on other processors.
The same way when Froyo came out, the Snapdragon processors were able to gain a huge boost in CPU intensive tasks because they took full advantage of the Dalvik optimizations in Froyo. Hummingbird although newer than Snapdragon was not taking full advantage of Dalvik optimizations, thus it ran slower despite being a newer processor.
Nexus Prime running a Ti-Omap 4460 will be faster than any xynos because Google will make sure ICS is perfectly tuned to Ti-OMAP 4460.
Edit:
This is assuming nexus prime has a Ti-OMAP 4460.
SamsungVibrant said:
Doesn't really matter how it compares right now, because Google can optimize ICS to run fast on Ti-OMAP 4460 while slow on other processors.
The same way when Froyo came out, the Snapdragon processors were able to gain a huge boost in CPU intensive tasks because they took full advantage of the Dalvik optimizations in Froyo. Hummingbird although newer than Snapdragon was not taking full advantage of Dalvik optimizations, thus it ran slower despite being a newer processor.
Nexus Prime running a Ti-Omap 4460 will be faster than any xynos because Google will make sure ICS is perfectly tuned to Ti-OMAP 4460.
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thanks for the response. anyone else have any ideas on the two processors?
So, i watched the presentation last night, i did not see them announce the processor...
have any of the reviews confirmed which processor and GPU?
Its the omap 4460, TI made an announcement on it.Gpu wise its weaker than the exynos in the texture department as it has the sgx540. The biggest advantage it has over the NS or vibrant is the CPU and ram (hardware wise) benching the NS vs the Droid3 or Bionic shows the NS doing fairly close with the differences being probably due to the omap having a higher gpu clock and a processor that can feed the data to the gpu faster.
I can tell you that the chip has great performance, even at that higher resolution, I believe the blackberry playbook has it and that thing runs beautifully =D
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
everything i'm reading about the omap is saying it's built for better HD performance, however clocking, number crunching and GPU it's weaker then the exynos found in the sgs II. actually there comparing the gpu to the one found in our Vibrant.
as dismal as this sounds, i'm still going for the Galaxy Nexus due to the stock interface and HD resolution...
or i can wait longer (god knows how much longer) and grab the sgs II HD thats currently only in Korea.
---------- Post added at 07:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------
qoutes from Extremetech website
"So now the OMAP4460 is getting quite a lot of scrutiny, even though it isn’t exactly a new chip. This dual-core SoC is clocked at 1.2GHz, and uses ARM Cortex-A9 architecture, just like the Exynos. That’s not a problem, but the older GPU, the PowerVR SGX540 is. We were hoping for a step up in the graphics department.
Why did Google choose the OMAP for its new Nexus? Well, it might not live up to the high graphical standards set out by the iPhone, but it is a solid chip in its own right. The OMAP4 platform makes use of an additional hardware accelerator called IVA 3 that makes encoding and decoding HD video a snap. The Galaxy Nexus has an HD screen, so this hardware focus on video is a big plus.
Google engineers were likely also drawn to the OMAP for its use of a dual-channel memory controller. Android’s multitasking system means that data is constantly being moved into, and out of, active memory. This is definitely a strength of TI’s OMAP parts"
hopefully that answers some of your questions.
Weak GPU, ****-tastic camera, no microSD slot, small battery, really high pricing (preliminary)...and once again plastic?
I don't get why Google felt they need to repeat the iPhone 4S announcement failure. The screen of the thing is amazing and its OS is. But the actual phone? Not so much.
:/
And I was so hyped about the "One phone to rule them all". . .
}{Alienz}{ said:
Weak GPU, ****-tastic camera, no microSD slot, small battery, really high pricing (preliminary)...and once again plastic?
I don't get why Google felt they need to repeat the iPhone 4S announcement failure. The screen of the thing is amazing and its OS is. But the actual phone? Not so much.
:/
And I was so hyped about the "One phone to rule them all". . .
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Click to collapse
The phone is still worth getting. It will always have the latest version of Android, and Android will run smoothly on it.
I'm never repeating my Vibrant mistake ever again. Running CM-7 with half ass GPS and no 911 calling, no thanks. Next time a Nexus only phone. Just wish it wasn't made by stupid Samsung, errrrr.
Or maybe Motorola phone now that Google owns them, higher chance of getting updates. Just my opinion though.
One last thing. I do agree about the lack of microsd. I was shocked when Nexus S didn't get it, and now again. Hmmmmm. You would think they would want a dev phone to have a microsd slot.
}{Alienz}{ said:
Weak GPU, ****-tastic camera, no microSD slot, small battery, really high pricing (preliminary)...and once again plastic?
I don't get why Google felt they need to repeat the iPhone 4S announcement failure. The screen of the thing is amazing and its OS is. But the actual phone? Not so much.
:/
And I was so hyped about the "One phone to rule them all". . .
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Click to collapse
Weak GPU? It is more than enough to drive a 720p screen at 60fps, as demonstrated consistently throughout the Galaxy Nexus hands-on videos.
How is the camera at all, as you so eloquently put it, '****-tastic'? From what I have seen (and trust me, it isn't nearly enough to make much of an impression to make a final call on its quality), the pictures look decent, with little chroma noise and balanced colours. The zero shutter-lag feature sounds most excellent as well, as most cellphone pictures turn out awful because of the nature of the beast (shaky hands and such). If your judgment is purely based on "Hurr because it's 5MP" then you are a moron.
Though I can lament the loss of a MicroSD card slot, most cards readily available to consumers (read: not newegg or amazon buyers) cannot even fathom being able to record 720p video, much less 1080p featured on the Galaxy Nexus. And using your smartphone as a primary MP3 player is only viable if you have no other use for the phone besides MP3 playing and occasional internet browsing, which would be just a flagrant waste of the ~$80 monthlies people pay for their plans.
And the 1,750mah battery is actually above-average (considering 1,450-1,500mah the standard), along with ICS' built-in 'app-freezing', carrier bloat will never be a cause for unnecessary battery drain again). The battery could last for days depending on your usage (Your mileage may ****ing vary, of course).
Really, high pricing? Really? If the previous two Nexus phones are any indication, it will cost $529 unlocked. Of course, it seems like a lot of money when you work retail or some other **** job, but then you shouldn't be playing with such expensive toys in the first place.
And plastic? Well this explains everything
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elKxgsrJFhw
Your post gave me cancer.
Camera---Look at the Nexus S photos at Engadget and the Galaxy Nexus ones. They look IDENTICAL except for colors on the GN looking a bit worse actually. Last I remember, the Nexus S camera is on the level of the Vibrant...it's great for a 5MP but its nothing compared to the competition nowdays. Not backlit sensor, not f2.2 or lower, not even high resolution. No shutter lag? I use Camera360 on my Vibrant and have had that feature for MONTHS. As Engadget comments, the no shutter lag is because the camera on the Galaxy Nexus does not focus. It is just NO competition to a Galaxy S2 or Iphone 4S sadly.
GPU-It is a 1.6 or 1.7 times faster than the Vibrant. We already have a good GPU but...for crying out loud. It is half as slow as the Galaxy S2 one. And THAT itself is already getting old...been on the market for over 6 months. Shall we compare to the new iPhone 4S? Difference of 7 TIMES? I HATE iphones but Samsung and Google seriously didn't try here.
Battery. I am CURRENTLY running a Samsung-made OEM 1800mah in my Vibrant. Same size as our original 1500mah. Should I remind you the Vibrant runs on a 4.0 screen and is NOT HD resolution? For a device that is as big as the Galaxy Nexus (4.6 inches) and with that huge and beautiful screen, 1750 is just TINY. At LEAST a good 2000 or more should have been put in it. And its' not impossible to do at all. Samsung HAS the technology. The phone HAS the space. It's fatter than the Galaxy S2 (and godforbid the new Razor)...doesn't have a MicroSD slot. There is no excuse except laziness.
Pricing---Several retailers in Europe have already priced it. Cheapest one is ~700...typical one is 800 and some go all the way up to 950. Look up the gsmarena.com article if you wish. Off contract it will be an arm and a leg. On contract it will be $300. That makes it the MOST expensive phone both on and off contract. $530? Yeah...maybe at that price it would be something to consider but 800? For an amazing screen and software? Heh.
Like I said, the real star of that presentation was the software. Ice Cream sandwich is amazing. GPU Acceleration anyone?
The phone though it comes on? A letdown sadly. Trust me, I was going to buy it. Was waiting for it for 3 months now. No more. May either get a Galaxy S2 now or wait for a Galaxy S2 HD for the Nexus HD screen and the Galaxy S2 performance and features.
In the OMAP 4460, the SGX540 is clocked at 384 MHz which gives it a total output of ~6.2 GFLOPs. In comparison, the Mali-400 MP4 clocked at 200 MHz produces about ~7.2 GFLOPs, and ~10.8 GFLOPs at 300 MHz. So yeah, it's a step back from the Exynos but still very good.
Everything yea saying don't matter its all about optimization an camera looks great to me
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
}{Alienz}{ said:
Camera---Look at the Nexus S photos at Engadget and the Galaxy Nexus ones. They look IDENTICAL except for colors on the GN looking a bit worse actually. Last I remember, the Nexus S camera is on the level of the Vibrant...it's great for a 5MP but its nothing compared to the competition nowdays. Not backlit sensor, not f2.2 or lower, not even high resolution. No shutter lag? I use Camera360 on my Vibrant and have had that feature for MONTHS. As Engadget comments, the no shutter lag is because the camera on the Galaxy Nexus does not focus. It is just NO competition to a Galaxy S2 or Iphone 4S sadly.
GPU-It is a 1.6 or 1.7 times faster than the Vibrant. We already have a good GPU but...for crying out loud. It is half as slow as the Galaxy S2 one. And THAT itself is already getting old...been on the market for over 6 months. Shall we compare to the new iPhone 4S? Difference of 7 TIMES? I HATE iphones but Samsung and Google seriously didn't try here.
Battery. I am CURRENTLY running a Samsung-made OEM 1800mah in my Vibrant. Same size as our original 1500mah. Should I remind you the Vibrant runs on a 4.0 screen and is NOT HD resolution? For a device that is as big as the Galaxy Nexus (4.6 inches) and with that huge and beautiful screen, 1750 is just TINY. At LEAST a good 2000 or more should have been put in it. And its' not impossible to do at all. Samsung HAS the technology. The phone HAS the space. It's fatter than the Galaxy S2 (and godforbid the new Razor)...doesn't have a MicroSD slot. There is no excuse except laziness.
Pricing---Several retailers in Europe have already priced it. Cheapest one is ~700...typical one is 800 and some go all the way up to 950. Look up the gsmarena.com article if you wish. Off contract it will be an arm and a leg. On contract it will be $300. That makes it the MOST expensive phone both on and off contract. $530? Yeah...maybe at that price it would be something to consider but 800? For an amazing screen and software? Heh.
Like I said, the real star of that presentation was the software. Ice Cream sandwich is amazing. GPU Acceleration anyone?
The phone though it comes on? A letdown sadly. Trust me, I was going to buy it. Was waiting for it for 3 months now. No more. May either get a Galaxy S2 now or wait for a Galaxy S2 HD for the Nexus HD screen and the Galaxy S2 performance and features.
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lmfao, best post all day. Gotta pay to play and $530 is pocket change for what you're getting in return.
Galaxy Nexus is clearly the device to get imo.
New Galaxy Nexus was just uncovered to only have 768MB RAM. Not a full GB.
}{Alienz}{ said:
New Galaxy Nexus was just uncovered to only have 768MB RAM. Not a full GB.
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Uncovered by whom?
Probably that's all that is available after boot up.
}{Alienz}{ said:
New Galaxy Nexus was just uncovered to only have 768MB RAM. Not a full GB.
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Click to collapse
It's 1 GB.
My Tab 10.1 only shows 768 MB as well, but it's 1 GB. The Android System uses part of the RAM to operate. The rest you get as free RAM.
How do I know? Supercurio's Twitter.
"supercurio François Simond:
I read several websites listing #GalaxyNexus with 1GB RAM.. hmm, it's not quite what I found. Linux says: 648MB in total, 630 Available""
Now. He further investigated and Samsung did the same thing they did with the Vibrant. All of the memory combined on it is indeed 1GB. HOWEVER, they are reserving a ****load of memory for the GPU and other functions. Hence of that 1GB (the phone DOES have 1GB), on average there is SIGNIFICANTLY less. How much less? Read the Twitter status posted here. This is the equivalent of the HTC Sensation which has 768MB of RAM and actually IS listed to have 768MB.
}{Alienz}{ said:
How do I know? Supercurio's Twitter.
"supercurio François Simond:
I read several websites listing #GalaxyNexus with 1GB RAM.. hmm, it's not quite what I found. Linux says: 648MB in total, 630 Available""
Now. He further investigated and Samsung did the same thing they did with the Vibrant. All of the memory combined on it is indeed 1GB. HOWEVER, they are reserving a ****load of memory for the GPU and other functions. Hence of that 1GB (the phone DOES have 1GB), on average there is SIGNIFICANTLY less. How much less? Read the Twitter status posted here. This is the equivalent of the HTC Sensation which has 768MB of RAM and actually IS listed to have 768MB.
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Click to collapse
Great find. Thank you.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
can anyone point me to some really good hands on videos? i saw the one on phandroid and engadget the night all was announced. but are there any good videos that show a little more in depth?
}{Alienz}{ said:
How do I know? Supercurio's Twitter.
"supercurio François Simond:
I read several websites listing #GalaxyNexus with 1GB RAM.. hmm, it's not quite what I found. Linux says: 648MB in total, 630 Available""
Now. He further investigated and Samsung did the same thing they did with the Vibrant. All of the memory combined on it is indeed 1GB. HOWEVER, they are reserving a ****load of memory for the GPU and other functions. Hence of that 1GB (the phone DOES have 1GB), on average there is SIGNIFICANTLY less. How much less? Read the Twitter status posted here. This is the equivalent of the HTC Sensation which has 768MB of RAM and actually IS listed to have 768MB.
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Click to collapse
Supercurio already has a Galaxy Nexus one day after announcement? Didn't know the devs got it that fast.
X10 is garbage! this is outrageous!
Yes really, they got it working, you want it so bad try porting it yourself
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
cry about it?
if you want it so bad for your phone, learn to port it yourself. until then, since you rely solely on other peoples' hard work and sweat, shut up and be patient.
dLo GSR said:
cry about it?
if you want it so bad for your phone, learn to port it yourself. until then, since you rely solely on other peoples' hard work and sweat, shut up and be patient.
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Click to collapse
Oh snap. That was awesome.
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I might start to look into trying to port it this weekend
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firefox3 said:
I might start to look into trying to port it this weekend
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good news man
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Being that there are currently no EGL libs for anything except PowerVR SGX devices under ICS yet, and they're closed source and tightly dependent on the kernel there doesn't seem to be a huge point until the official updates start to hit for a range of devices.
Sure, Desire, HD, X10, N1 have ports of a sort at the moment, in fact there shouldn't be too many problems getting them working aside from the graphics drivers but they're just for fun with the framebuffer driver given how much of ICS' UI rendering is done with GPU acceleration in mind. You wouldn't want to use it day-to-day. The browser is surprisingly responsive on the Desire though (I'd say moreso than GB, despite the software rendering), as is the Market (the new one always lagged really badly for me on the Desire before) - glimmers of hope for ICS' eventual performance on older devices. The keyboard lags like you wouldn't believe though!
The Atrix should fly under 4.0.1 though, if it ever happens - bearing in mind the fact that the SGX 540 in the Galaxy Nexus is pretty much in a dead heat with Tegra 2's GPU, we've got a lower resolution screen, and can overclock past the its stock speeds.
Javi97100 said:
Good news man
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its turning out to be harder then i though... I think no one will get it until offical updates come out for other phones
Azurael said:
Being that there are currently no EGL libs for anything except PowerVR SGX devices under ICS yet, and they're closed source and tightly dependent on the kernel there doesn't seem to be a huge point until the official updates start to hit for a range of devices.
Sure, Desire, HD, X10, N1 have ports of a sort at the moment, in fact there shouldn't be too many problems getting them working aside from the graphics drivers but they're just for fun with the framebuffer driver given how much of ICS' UI rendering is done with GPU acceleration in mind. You wouldn't want to use it day-to-day. The browser is surprisingly responsive on the Desire though (I'd say moreso than GB, despite the software rendering), as is the Market (the new one always lagged really badly for me on the Desire before) - glimmers of hope for ICS' eventual performance on older devices. The keyboard lags like you wouldn't believe though!
The Atrix should fly under 4.0.1 though, if it ever happens - bearing in mind the fact that the SGX 540 in the Galaxy Nexus is pretty much in a dead heat with Tegra 2's GPU, we've got a lower resolution screen, and can overclock past the its stock speeds.
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Click to collapse
So EGL = gpu driver? If thats the only setback, would it be possible to get an ICS rom with software rendering as a proof of concept, or are there other pieces missing?
GB/CM7 is pretty good on the Atrix, if we dont see ICS for a few months it doesn't hurt us in any way. I'd like to think most of us can be patient if we lack the skills to help.
I noticed the Captivate got a port of it too since i9000 ROMs and Cap ROMs are interchangeable. I thought its funny that it's running on the HD a Windows Mobile 6.5 phone lol. Let's all try to be patient and we will eventually see it.
Edit: not to mention I'm sure if it's not already it will soon be on iPhone too. It seems like iPhones always get the new Android versions kinda early. I'm not sweating it I love my Atrix in its current state.
According to anandtech, Tegra 2 support is essentially ready, so I think as long as nvidia releases the source for ics (libs?), someone will try to port it. Hell, I have a good 5 weeks during break, I might as well try then.
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Azurael said:
Being that there are currently no EGL libs for anything except PowerVR SGX devices under ICS yet, and they're closed source and tightly dependent on the kernel there doesn't seem to be a huge point until the official updates start to hit for a range of devices.
Sure, Desire, HD, X10, N1 have ports of a sort at the moment, in fact there shouldn't be too many problems getting them working aside from the graphics drivers but they're just for fun with the framebuffer driver given how much of ICS' UI rendering is done with GPU acceleration in mind. You wouldn't want to use it day-to-day. The browser is surprisingly responsive on the Desire though (I'd say moreso than GB, despite the software rendering), as is the Market (the new one always lagged really badly for me on the Desire before) - glimmers of hope for ICS' eventual performance on older devices. The keyboard lags like you wouldn't believe though!
The Atrix should fly under 4.0.1 though, if it ever happens - bearing in mind the fact that the SGX 540 in the Galaxy Nexus is pretty much in a dead heat with Tegra 2's GPU, we've got a lower resolution screen, and can overclock past the its stock speeds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, no, despite being a much older GPU, the SGX 540 found in the GNexus outpaces the Tegra 2 due to its higher clock rate by 7% or 45% depending on the GLBenchmark being run. Both GPU tests were done at 720p resolution. Also, you can't overclock the GPU, only the CPU.
edgeicator said:
Actually, no, despite being a much older GPU, the SGX 540 found in the GNexus outpaces the Tegra 2 due to its higher clock rate by 7% or 45% depending on the GLBenchmark being run. Both GPU tests were done at 720p resolution. Also, you can't overclock the GPU, only the CPU.
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Click to collapse
Buddy, check out any of the kernels available in the dev thread and you'll see that the GPUs are overclocked.
WiredPirate said:
I noticed the Captivate got a port of it too since i9000 ROMs and Cap ROMs are interchangeable. I thought its funny that it's running on the HD a Windows Mobile 6.5 phone lol. Let's all try to be patient and we will eventually see it.
Edit: not to mention I'm sure if it's not already it will soon be on iPhone too. It seems like iPhones always get the new Android versions kinda early. I'm not sweating it I love my Atrix in its current state.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doubt the iPhone will see ICS, the newest model that can run android as far as I know is the iPhone 3G, which was incredibly slow under Gingerbread.
mac208x said:
X10 is garbage! this is outrageous!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
222 posts and zero thanks? Is this what you do, go around XDA and post useless threads like the guy complaining about returning home early despite nobody asking him to "to get MIUI ported on his grandma's phone"?
Are you guys related by any chance?
edgeicator said:
Actually, no, despite being a much older GPU, the SGX 540 found in the GNexus outpaces the Tegra 2 due to its higher clock rate by 7% or 45% depending on the GLBenchmark being run. Both GPU tests were done at 720p resolution. Also, you can't overclock the GPU, only the CPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on the benchmark, yes - texture-heavy rendering tends to perform better on the 540 in the OMAP4460 thanks to it's dual channel memory controller and high clock (and that's probably the directly relevant part to UI rendering to be honest, though as I said - lower resolution screen ) but the Tegra 2 is quite substantially ahead in geometry-heavy rendering (and games on mobiles are starting to move that way now, following the desktop landscape over the past 5 years or so.) Averaged out, the performance of the two is very close.
Plus, as I said, the GPU in my phone is running at 400MHz which ought to even things out in the GLMark 720p tests somewhat even if they are biassed to one architecture or the other. While the GPU in OMAP4460 may overclock just as well from its stock 400MHz, I'm only really concerned that the phone can run as fast as a stock GNexus to maybe skip the next generation of mobile hardware and tide it over until Cortex A15-based SoCs on 28nm process start to emerge with stronger GPUs. I don't really think I'm CPU performance bound with a 1.4GHz dual-core A9 - and increasing the number of equivalent cores without a really substantial boost in GPU horesepower seems worthless right now, even if ICS takes better advantage of SMP (re: Disappointing early Tegra 3 benchmarks - although it does seem GLMark stacks the odds against NVidia GPUs more than other benchmarks?)
Azurael said:
Depends on the benchmark, yes - texture-heavy rendering tends to perform better on the 540 in the OMAP4460 thanks to it's dual channel memory controller and high clock (and that's probably the directly relevant part to UI rendering to be honest, though as I said - lower resolution screen ) but the Tegra 2 is quite substantially ahead in geometry-heavy rendering (and games on mobiles are starting to move that way now, following the desktop landscape over the past 5 years or so.) Averaged out, the performance of the two is very close.
Plus, as I said, the GPU in my phone is running at 400MHz which ought to even things out in the GLMark 720p tests somewhat even if they are biassed to one architecture or the other. While the GPU in OMAP4460 may overclock just as well from its stock 400MHz, I'm only really concerned that the phone can run as fast as a stock GNexus to maybe skip the next generation of mobile hardware and tide it over until Cortex A15-based SoCs on 28nm process start to emerge with stronger GPUs. I don't really think I'm CPU performance bound with a 1.4GHz dual-core A9 - and increasing the number of equivalent cores without a really substantial boost in GPU horesepower seems worthless right now, even if ICS takes better advantage of SMP (re: Disappointing early Tegra 3 benchmarks - although it does seem GLMark stacks the odds against NVidia GPUs more than other benchmarks?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would expect the Tegra to beat a nearly 5 year old GPU, but it only does so in triangle throughput. Tegra just uses a very poor architecture in general. Look at how little actual horsepower it can pull. The Tegra 3 gpu pulls 7.2GFLOPs @300mhz. The iPad GPU and the upcoming Adreno 225 both pull 19.2 GFLOPS at that same clockspeed. I honestly have no idea what the engineers are thinking over atNnvidia. It's almost as bad as AMD's latest bulldozer offerings. It's really more of Tegra's shortcomings than GLMark stacking the odds. PowerVR's offerings from 2007 are keeping up with a chip that debuted in 2010/2011. The Geforce just doesn't seem to scale very well at all on mobile platforms. But yea, all Nvidia did with Tegra 3 was slap in 2 extra cores, clocked them higher, threw in the sorely missed NEON instruction set, increased the SIMDs on the GPU by 50% (8 to 12), and then tacked on a 5th hidden core to help save power. Tegra 3 stayed with the 40nm process whereas every other SoC is dropping down to 28nm with some bringing in a brand new architecture as well.
edgeicator said:
I would expect the Tegra to beat a nearly 5 year old GPU, but it only does so in triangle throughput. Tegra just uses a very poor architecture in general. Look at how little actual horsepower it can pull. The Tegra 3 gpu pulls 7.2GFLOPs @300mhz. The iPad GPU and the upcoming Adreno 225 both pull 19.2 GFLOPS at that same clockspeed. I honestly have no idea what the engineers are thinking over atNnvidia. It's almost as bad as AMD's latest bulldozer offerings. It's really more of Tegra's shortcomings than GLMark stacking the odds. PowerVR's offerings from 2007 are keeping up with a chip that debuted in 2010/2011. The Geforce just doesn't seem to scale very well at all on mobile platforms. But yea, all Nvidia did with Tegra 3 was slap in 2 extra cores, clocked them higher, threw in the sorely missed NEON instruction set, increased the SIMDs on the GPU by 50% (8 to 12), and then tacked on a 5th hidden core to help save power. Tegra 3 stayed with the 40nm process whereas every other SoC is dropping down to 28nm with some bringing in a brand new architecture as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't you get tired if writing those long rants? We understand you know something about CPU architecture, and that Tegra isn't the best one out there, but damn man, it's the same thing in every thread. Just chill out and try to stay on topic for once
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
edgeicator said:
I would expect the Tegra to beat a nearly 5 year old GPU, but it only does so in triangle throughput. Tegra just uses a very poor architecture in general. Look at how little actual horsepower it can pull. The Tegra 3 gpu pulls 7.2GFLOPs @300mhz. The iPad GPU and the upcoming Adreno 225 both pull 19.2 GFLOPS at that same clockspeed. I honestly have no idea what the engineers are thinking over atNnvidia. It's almost as bad as AMD's latest bulldozer offerings. It's really more of Tegra's shortcomings than GLMark stacking the odds. PowerVR's offerings from 2007 are keeping up with a chip that debuted in 2010/2011. The Geforce just doesn't seem to scale very well at all on mobile platforms. But yea, all Nvidia did with Tegra 3 was slap in 2 extra cores, clocked them higher, threw in the sorely missed NEON instruction set, increased the SIMDs on the GPU by 50% (8 to 12), and then tacked on a 5th hidden core to help save power. Tegra 3 stayed with the 40nm process whereas every other SoC is dropping down to 28nm with some bringing in a brand new architecture as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you are not seeing the whole picture...
The Tegra 3 (Et-Al) is not just about its quad core implementation, remember that the GPU will offer 12 cores that will translate in performance not seeing as of yet on any other platform.
Benchmarks don't tell the whole story! Specially those benchmarking tools which are not Tegra 3 optimized yet.
Cheers!
Sent from my Atrix using Tapatalk
WiredPirate said:
I noticed the Captivate got a port of it too since i9000 ROMs and Cap ROMs are interchangeable. I thought its funny that it's running on the HD a Windows Mobile 6.5 phone lol. Let's all try to be patient and we will eventually see it.
Edit: not to mention I'm sure if it's not already it will soon be on iPhone too. It seems like iPhones always get the new Android versions kinda early. I'm not sweating it I love my Atrix in its current state.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL I ran all the iDroid ports on my iphone. Not one was even in alpha stage, I would not even count iDroid as a port since you cant use anything on it.
-The Tegra 3 SoC (System on a chip) is a combo of a microprocessor, a memory controller, an audio processor, a video encoder and a graphics renderer. It's designed and manufactured by Nvidia, world leader of graphics computing, making it's first appearance in the Asus Transformer Prime.
-The Tegra 3 SoC has 5 physical cores, but limited to performance of quad-cores. The 5th, lower power core, is activated only when the device is idle or handling low tasks, such as syncing and e-mail checking. So, power consumption is always kept to minimum when performance of the quad-core is not needed, ensuring longer battery life. Once you run a normal or higher-demanding task on the tablet, the 5th core shuts off automatically before the 4 main cores are activated. This is all the bios of the chip and doesn't require the user or the developer to change anything to use the Android OS and application this way. Android OS already has a the best support for multi-tasking and is multi-threaded friendly compared to competing operating systems in the market. So, this should be good news of the Asus Transformer Prime to-be users soon.
-The GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) in the Tegra 3 Soc has 12 shaders. But, because Nvidia has not followed a unified-shader architecture in this ARM SoC like they've been doing in their PC and MAC discrete graphics cards, 8 of those 12 shaders are reserved for pixel work and the remaining 4 are for vertex. Maybe Nvidia will use unified-shader architecture in the next generation Tegra SoC'es, when the ARM-based devices are ready for it. The PowerVR MP2 GPU in the iPad 2 has more raw power than the Tegra 3 GPU (Actually, it's the only one thing I personally like about the iPad 2, it's GPU!), but the Tegra 3 Geforce (the commercial name Nvidia uses for their gaming graphics processors) should give a solid 3D performance in games, especially the officially supported games. Nvidia has long history in 3D gaming and been using it's solid connections with game developers to bring higher quality gaming to Android, like what we've seen with Tegra 2 SoC capabilities in games listed in the TegraZone Android app. Add to that, games are not just GPU bound, Tegra 3's quad-cores and 1GB system RAM (iPad has 512MB) will pump up gaming qualities for sure and the pixel density of 149ppi displays crisper images than the 132ppi of the iPad 2. Once the Asus Prime is released, it can be officially considered the highest performing Android device in the world, especially 3D gaming.
Well, I thought I'd have more to type, I paused for a long time and could not think of anything to add. I only wanted to share few things I know about the Tegra 3. I have high interest in computer graphics/processors and been following the Tegra project since 2008.
Some of the Asus Prime to-be-owners doesn't know or care that much about technical details of the CPU in the device and I thought of sharing with them.
Thanks and gold luck.
Thanks for the info. Very interesting
As I understand it, the use of the lower power 5th core has decreased battery consumption by over 60% when compared to the earlier 2 core design. I am not sure how they are measuring consumption and the task load.
I am most exited about the tablet because of the tegra 3.
In smartphones I find the idea of putting more than one core quite rubbish.
It is not the best solution for a tablet or any other mobile device too. I would highly appreciate a well programmed software over overpowered hardware.
Yet the tegra has a nice concept.
I think most of the time I won't use more than that 5th core. I mean it is even powerful enough to play HD video.
I will primarily use apps that display text and images. Like the browser who is said to utilize 4 cores. But I am sure only because of the crappy programming.
So if people finally come to their minds and start optimizing their apps we will have one quite powerful core and 4 in backup for REAL needs. Seems like an investment in the future for me.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Straight from Wikipedia:
Tegra 3 (Kal-El) series
Processor: quad-core ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore, up to 1.4 GHz single-core mode and 1.3 GHz multi-core mode
12-Core Nvidia GPU with support for 3D stereo
Ultra low power GPU mode
40 nm process by TSMC
Video output up to 2560×1600
NEON vector instruction set
1080p MPEG-4 AVC/h.264 40 Mbps High-Profile, VC1-AP and DivX 5/6 video decode[18]
The Kal-El chip (CPU and GPU) is to be about 5 times faster than Tegra 2[19]
Estimated release date is now to be Q4 2011 for tablets and Q1 2012 for smartphones, after being set back from Nvidia's prior estimated release dates of Q2 2011,[20] then August 2011,[21] then October 2011[22]
The Tegra 3 is functionally a quad-core processor, but includes a fifth "companion" core. All cores are Cortex-A9s, but the companion core is manufactured with a special low power silicon process. This means it uses less power at low clock rates, but more at higher rates; hence it is limited to 500 MHz. There is also special logic to allow running state to be quickly transferred between the companion core and one of the normal cores. The goal is for a mobile phone or tablet to be able to power down all the normal cores and run on only the companion core, using comparatively little power, during standby mode or when otherwise using little CPU. According to Nvidia, this includes playing music or even video content.[23]
Tegra 3 officially released on November 9, 2011[/LEFT][/CENTER][/FONT]
Tegra 2's maximum ram limit was 1GB. Tegra 3's could be 2GB.
xTRICKYxx said:
Straight from Wikipedia:
Tegra 2's maximum ram limit was 1GB. Tegra 3's could be 2GB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The rumor mill is churning out some specs on an upcoming Lenovo tablet with some funky specs, like 2GB DD3....so it's possible. However, the same leak/article also says its chip is clocked at 1.6 Ghz which is quite a bit out of spec, so I would take it with a usual:
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jerrykur said:
As I understand it, the use of the lower power 5th core has decreased battery consumption by over 60% when compared to the earlier 2 core design. I am not sure how they are measuring consumption and the task load.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can read the White Papers on the Tegra 3 over on Nvidia's website. But the chip has a controller built into the chip that activates either the 4 cores, or the 1 core based on power demand of a given processing activity.
The quad vs single core are made out of different silicone materials, but same design structure in order to maximize the energy efficiency at the performance curve. The difference of Materials is more efficient at different power curves. So the 5th core is very efficient at low processing levels where it is actively being used.
It's pretty cool stuff
RussianMenace said:
The rumor mill is churning out some specs on an upcoming Lenovo tablet with some funky specs, like 2GB DD3....so it's possible. However, the same leak/article also says its chip is clocked at 1.6 Ghz which is quite a bit out of spec, so I would take it with a usual:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*Correction: Tegra 3 supports DDR2 AND DDR3. The original Transformer had 1GB of DDR2 @ 667Mhz. The Prime has 1GB of LPDDR2 @ 1066Mhz, a considerable bump in speed. Also, Tegra 3 supports up to DDR3 @ 1500Mhz!
xTRICKYxx said:
I think the only compatible RAM would be DDR2. Clock speeds don't matter, as the Tegra 3 can be OC'd to 2Ghz no problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure it can, hopefully they increase the battery capacity to compensate for increased power use. As far as the memory, Nvidia's site on Tegra 3 lists DDR3 (though its still running on a 32-bit bus which may or may not be an issue with 3d games), upto 2GB. However, every bit of spec info on the Prime I can find lists DDR2...so I don't know.
RussianMenace said:
I'm sure it can, hopefully they increase the battery capacity to compensate for increased power use. As far as the memory, Nvidia's site on Tegra 3 lists DDR3 (though its still running on a 32-bit bus which may or may not be an issue with 3d games), upto 2GB. However, every bit of spec info on the Prime I can find lists DDR2...so I don't know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Prime's RAM speed is considerably faster than the TF101.
If it does have room to expand, could we expand or upgrade the RAM?
doeboy1984 said:
If it does have room to expand, could we expand or upgrade the RAM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Judging by the pictures, it doesn't look like the RAM will be removable or upgradeable (the RAM is the Elpida chip right next to the processor).
xTRICKYxx said:
The Prime's RAM speed is considerably faster than the TF101.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said it wasn't.
What I said is that both Tegra 2 and now Tegra 3 have a single 32-bit wide memory interface when compared to the two on the A5,Exynos,Qualcom, and OMAP4 chips. What that means is that theoretically it will have lower bandwidth which may cause problems with upcoming games, especially considering that you now have to feed extra cores and a beefier GPU. Now, whether or not it will actually be an issue...we will have to see.
Sad that the SGX543MP2 in the Ipad2 is still faster than the Tegra3's GPU. Apple is always ahead of the curve.. Just when Android devices started becoming as fast as the iPad1.. The iPad2 was released and remains to have one of the strongest SOCs out in the field.
Even for pure CPU benches.. the 1ghz dualcore A5 smokes most chips running faster clocks in dual core configs.
Regardless, this is still the most powerful Android device to date. Just disappointed that Nvidia, one of the king of GPU makers can't even compete with PowerVR.. a much smaller company with a lot less money.
Diversion said:
Sad that the SGX543MP2 in the Ipad2 is still faster than the Tegra3's GPU. Apple is always ahead of the curve.. Just when Android devices started becoming as fast as the iPad1.. The iPad2 was released and remains to have one of the strongest SOCs out in the field.
Even for pure CPU benches.. the 1ghz dualcore A5 smokes most chips running faster clocks in dual core configs.
Regardless, this is still the most powerful Android device to date. Just disappointed that Nvidia, one of the king of GPU makers can't even compete with PowerVR.. a much smaller company with a lot less money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would have to agree with you that Nvidia dropped the ball on their new GPU, at least on paper.
However, it's not as simple as having "omg wtf i > you" hardware that's the source of the performance. What Apple really has going for them is uniformity of hardware/software. Apple software is designed to work on very specific and strictly controlled hardware setup which allows for an incredible level of optimizations of software. This "closed loop" if software/hardware is what really drives the performance of the iProducts. Simply put, probably way over-simplified, but it let's them do more with less.
Diversion said:
Sad that the SGX543MP2 in the Ipad2 is still faster than the Tegra3's GPU. Apple is always ahead of the curve.. Just when Android devices started becoming as fast as the iPad1.. The iPad2 was released and remains to have one of the strongest SOCs out in the field.
Even for pure CPU benches.. the 1ghz dualcore A5 smokes most chips running faster clocks in dual core configs.
Regardless, this is still the most powerful Android device to date. Just disappointed that Nvidia, one of the king of GPU makers can't even compete with PowerVR.. a much smaller company with a lot less money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good point. Also apple has the apps n games that showcase and utilize all this extra power. Even my original iPad has apps/games that I haven't seen Android dual core equivalents of. I love my iPad but I also own Atix dual core Tegra 2 phone. I know the open sourced Android will win out in the end.
I came across a good comment in the lenovo specs link that a member here posted in this thread.
"Google and NVidia need to seriously subsidize 3rd party app development to show ANY value and utility over iPad. Apple won't rest on its laurels as their GPU performance on the A5 is already ahead with games and APPs to prove it".
What do you all think about this? Not trying to thread jack as I see it's relevant to this thread also. What apps/games does Android have up it's sleeve to take advantage of this new Tegra3? Majority of Android apps/games don't even take advantage of tegra2 and similar SOC yet. Are we going to have all this extra power for a while without it never really being used to it's potential. Android needs some hardcore apps n games. iPad has all the b.s. Stuff also BUT has very hardcore apps n games also to use it to close to full potential. IMO my iPad 1 jail broken still trumps most of these Tegra 2 tablets out now. Not because of hardware specs, but because of the quality of apps n games I have. I've noticed Android is finally starting to get more hardcore games like ShadowGun, game loft games, etc.. I can't over clock or customize my iPad as extensively as Android but the software/apps/games I have are great. No, I don't want an ipad2 or ipad3. I want an Android tablet now because of more potential with it. Just like with anything in life, potential doesn't mean sh$& if it's not utilized and made a reality.
I was a windows mobile person first. Then I experienced dual booting with XDAndroid on my tilt 2, I loved it. Then I knew I wanted a real android phone or tablet. First Android tablet I owned, for only a day, was the Archos7IT. It was cool but returned it since it couldn't connect to my WMwifirouter, which uses ad-hoc network. So I researched n finally settled on taking a chance with the apple iPad. I use to be an apple hater to the max..lol. My iPad changed all of that. I still hate the closed system of apple but I had to admit, the iPad worked great for what I needed and wanted to do. This iPad, I'm writing this post on now, still works flawlessly after almost 2 years and it's specs are nowhere compared to iPad 2 or all these new dual core tablets out. I'm doing amazing stuff with only 256mb of ram..SMH I hated having to hook iPad up to iTunes for everything like music n videos. So I jail broke and got Ifiles, which is basically a very detailed root file explorer. I also have the USB n SD card adapter. So now I could put my content on my iPad myself without needing to be chained to iTunes. iTunes only good for software updates. I'm still on 4.2.1 jail broken firmware on iPad. Never bothered or really wanted to upgrade to the new IOS 5.01 out now. With all my jailbreak mods/tweaks, I've been doing most new stuff people are now being able to do. All apple did was implement jailbreak tweaks into their OS, for the most part.
Sorry for the long rant. I'm just excited on getting new Prime tegra3 tablet. I just hope the apps/games start rolling out fast that really take advantage of this power. And I don't just mean tegrazone stuff..lol. Android developers going to have to really step their game up once these new quad cores come out. Really even now with dual cores also. I'm a fan of technology in general. Competition only makes things better. Android is starting to overtake apple in sales or similar categories. Only thing is Android hasn't gotten on par with apple quality apps yet. Like the iPad tablet only apps are very numerous. Lots are b.s. But tons are very great also. I'm just hoping Amdroid tablet only apps will be same quality at least or better. I'm not looking to get new quad core tablet to play angry birds or other kiddy type games. I'm into productivity, media apps, and hardcore games, like Rage HD, NOVA2, Modern Combat 3, Order n Chaos, InfinityBlade, ShadowGun, etc.. All of which I have and more on my almost 2 year old iPad 1.
Asus, with being the first manufacturer to come out with quad core tablet and super IPS + display, might just be the last push needed to get things really rolling for Android, as far as high quality software amd tablet optimized OS goes. Can't wait to see how this plays out .
---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 PM ----------
RussianMenace said:
I would have to agree with you that Nvidia dropped the ball on their new GPU, at least on paper.
However, it's not as simple as having "omg wtf i > you" hardware that's the source of the performance. What Apple really has going for them is uniformity of hardware/software. Apple software is designed to work on very specific and strictly controlled hardware setup which allows for an incredible level of optimizations of software. This "closed loop" if software/hardware is what really drives the performance of the iProducts. Simply put, probably way over-simplified, but it let's them do more with less.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great point, just as I was saying basically in my long post..lol
nook-color said:
You can read the White Papers on the Tegra 3 over on Nvidia's website. But the chip has a controller built into the chip that activates either the 4 cores, or the 1 core based on power demand of a given processing activity.
The quad vs single core are made out of different silicone materials, but same design structure in order to maximize the energy efficiency at the performance curve. The difference of Materials is more efficient at different power curves. So the 5th core is very efficient at low processing levels where it is actively being used.
It's pretty cool stuff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is correct. Actually, the "5th" core is licensed with ARM A7 instructions set, the quads are A9.
RussianMenace said:
I would have to agree with you that Nvidia dropped the ball on their new GPU, at least on paper.
However, it's not as simple as having "omg wtf i > you" hardware that's the source of the performance. What Apple really has going for them is uniformity of hardware/software. Apple software is designed to work on very specific and strictly controlled hardware setup which allows for an incredible level of optimizations of software. This "closed loop" if software/hardware is what really drives the performance of the iProducts. Simply put, probably way over-simplified, but it let's them do more with less.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I agree. Just like saying why Xbox360 and PS3 consoles can still push high quality graphics compared to a new high-end PC? Unity of hardware plays a big role there.
I have a $4000 custom PC. Sometimes I see my brother play the same games on his $250 Playstation 3 with performance and graphics very similar to my PC.
CyberPunk7t9 said:
I have a $4000 custom PC. Sometimes I see my brother play the same games on his $250 Playstation 3 with performance and graphics very similar to my PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's because these days, most PC games are console ports.
GPU specs don't matter. The iPad has more and better games than Android tabs, and that won't change for the (1-yr) lifespan of the Teg3. Not to be a downer, but it's just reality.
The Prime is better at certain things. HDMI-out and USB host (NTFS) support makes it a pretty good HTPC, for one. But I wouldn't get into a pissing contest over games--unless of course you're talking about emus.
e.mote said:
GPU specs don't matter. The iPad has more and better games than Android tabs, and that won't change for the (1-yr) lifespan of the Teg3. Not to be a downer, but it's just reality.
The Prime is better at certain things. HDMI-out and USB host (NTFS) support makes it a pretty good HTPC, for one. But I wouldn't get into a pissing contest over games--unless of course you're talking about emus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that true? NTFS support? Are you sure? Can you link me to a spec for that? If so then I can transfer files from my SD to an external NTFS without using Windows! That would be great for trips when I need to dump digital pics.
Quick question. I was reading an article about the HTC One X. It supposedly will come with a tegra 3 quad core processor but not in the US. We will get a Snapdragon S4 dual core so it can have LTE.
Does this mean we are stuck with dual core Snapdragon's in the future? Why can't they add LTE to the Tegra 3? It seems like a pretty big difference in processors. If I were planning on getting the One X I would be pretty disappointed knowing there is a more powerful phone out there. Why do we get gypped compared to overseas??
I guess I'm just saying that there are a ton of different chips out there and I don't wanna be stuck with Snapdragon's forever just to have LTE.
SkizzMcNizz said:
Quick question. I was reading an article about the HTC One X. It supposedly will come with a tegra 3 quad core processor but not in the US. We will get a Snapdragon S4 dual core so it can have LTE.
Does this mean we are stuck with dual core Snapdragon's in the future? Why can't they add LTE to the Tegra 3? It seems like a pretty big difference in processors. If I were planning on getting the One X I would be pretty disappointed knowing there is a more powerful phone out there. Why do we get gypped compared to overseas??
I guess I'm just saying that there are a ton of different chips out there and I don't wanna be stuck with Snapdragon's forever just to have LTE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The S4 smokes the Tegra3 in just about every conceivable test. More cores ≠ better performance.
tekhna said:
The S4 smokes the Tegra3 in just about every conceivable test. More cores ≠ better performance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. People have this notion that just because a CPU has more cores that it is going to perform better. That isn't always the case. It has to do with architecture.
tekhna said:
The S4 smokes the Tegra3 in just about every conceivable test. More cores ≠ better performance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cores do help in more simultaneous tasks taking place though, no? So if you're running multiple tasks, the Tegra can handle more of a load than the S4 would be able to?
engsoccerfan said:
Cores do help in more simultaneous tasks taking place though, no? So if you're running multiple tasks, the Tegra can handle more of a load than the S4 would be able to?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, but as anandtech said:
"Qualcomm's strengths are clearly single/lightly threaded CPU performance as Krait is able to offer some significant steps forward in that department. Tegra 3 can hold onto an advantage in heavily threaded apps, but I'm not entirely convinced that in phones we'll see a lot of that."
Basically, sure, yeah, there's a theoretical advantage, but what are you doing on your phone that necessitates four cores? And even then, the S4 doesn't perform significantly better or worse on multithreaded tests than the Tegra3.
By the time you need a new phone, there'll be quad-core Qualcomm processors. I wouldn't worry, at all.
Sent from my bad**s mofo HTC Rezound
tekhna said:
Sure, but as anandtech said:
"Qualcomm's strengths are clearly single/lightly threaded CPU performance as Krait is able to offer some significant steps forward in that department. Tegra 3 can hold onto an advantage in heavily threaded apps, but I'm not entirely convinced that in phones we'll see a lot of that."
Basically, sure, yeah, there's a theoretical advantage, but what are you doing on your phone that necessitates four cores? And even then, the S4 doesn't perform significantly better or worse on multithreaded tests than the Tegra3.
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+1
It's like putting two engines in your car. It has the *potential* to go really fast, but unless your car is built to use two engines, it's not going to make any difference. Not the best example, I know. But it's simple.
As per the OP, we just don't have compatible LTE/Tegra3 combinations yet. Very bluntly, our LTE stuff sucks. (Which is why Apple passed on it with the 4S) Eventually, there will be an LTE modem that works with a quad-core chip, it's just not there right now. Like everyone else has said, in real world performance, you won't notice it anyway.
Nvidia is working on a Tegra 3 chipset with LTE built in I think I read.
Regardless, S4 is still a beast of a chip.
im glad the htc one isn't coming to verizon. it's stuff like this that makes our rezound outdated way before it's time. no one really "needs" a quad in a cell phone and im glad there isn't alot of quad core devices coming this year. both ces & mobile world congress were a big disappointment as far as im concerned.
IMO, the S4 dual core is an awesome chip. I am very skeptical about quad core battery performance. Due to technical advancements maybe they are superior. We will see soon enough.
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still no good with limited. if you're not doing heavy multithreaded work you won't see much difference plus 4 cores means more battery consumption vs dual
Tegra = fail. The market is doing a good job with over hyping dual core and quad core. Some people think it's almost necessary to have dual/quad socs , when other platforms like w7 run just fine on a single core.
isn't the second core on resound usually asleep a lot of the time unless needed? now you can have 3 cores taking a nap
lol.
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most dual core phones only use the second core as a back-up or for HDMI only
thus making it pointless to have quad-core phones at the moment i ran everything just fine on my Thunderbolt which was single core and it out performed my stock rezound.. and yes quad core i presume would be a battery drainer cuz dual cores don't really even have that good of battery life and single cores r the same
and snapdragon has quadcores already and they r in the midst of working on 8core chipsets but that wont be out till late 2013 early mid 2014 so stick with what u have
all good things take time
)
Comparing The Tegra 3 and the Snapdragon S4 is like comparing the AMD Bulldozer chips with the current Intel chips. They put more cores on a die and call it "The Fastest" but when the benchmarks start showing up it falls short of a lower end, more efficient chips. In theory more cores = more power, but in reality architectural is everything. All the hype from people being like "MOAR COREZ OMG FASTER" is a bunch of bull...
mighty_markus12 said:
im glad the htc one isn't coming to verizon. it's stuff like this that makes our rezound outdated way before it's time. no one really "needs" a quad in a cell phone and im glad there isn't alot of quad core devices coming this year. both ces & mobile world congress were a big disappointment as far as im concerned.
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CES and MWC are just teasers anyways. Did you see the Rezound, Nexus, Razr, Razr Maxx, Transformer Prime, Galaxy Note, etc at those events last year? Nope, you saw the Bionic which 7 months later was a disastrophy, lol.
Did veruzon say they weren't getting the one x? I know there is a new verizon htc phone on the road map.
I'm curious about the snapdragon s4 just because it has lte integrated.
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Well the One X has the same processor as my laptop 1.5 gh quad core. The only thing I think my computer really needs the quad cores for is intense games especially my wii emulator, which probably could run on One X since it has the same processor as my computer.
Ndaoud360 said:
Well the One X has the same processor as my laptop 1.5 gh quad core. The only thing I think my computer really needs the quad cores for is intense games especially my wii emulator, which probably could run on One X since it has the same processor as my computer.
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It's also pretty dependent on the GPU. Not sure what kind of graphics card your laptop has, but that has a pretty substantial effect on gaming.
The One X has a great dedicated GPU, but it's still a phone. Not sure if it can really match up to an actual computer's graphics card, but I've been wrong before.