Hello! to anyone who might read this
First off, let me tell you a tiny bit about myself (Bare with me here).
My name is Christian, I'm 19 and I'm an intern at an IT-section. I've been working here for a year already - Each year interns are to write two individual papers about different subjects. My last paper was a virtual Windows Server 2003 Server Park Environment for another company. This year my first paper is on Android.
My place of work supports other workplaces, such as schools, the hospital, social workers, basically everything. With next-gen phones and new OS' out - Naturally, we're upgrading. The question is what OS to go with. That's why I was asked to create a paper on Android, showing how a work-phone could be. Not all of the details have been planned out yet, but it goes something like this:
- Create a ROM with the necessary applications
- Strip the ROM of anything ..unnecessary (Could be anything, Gapps even).
- Choose/Develope a Launcher that can work pretty much out-of-the-box without having to customize too much.
That's pretty much all the information I've been given for now. I've been given a HTC Desire to 'play around with'. I've been told we're going to have a meeting about it soon. The reason I'm creating this thread is to give myself sort of a roadmap, I guess. And I'd love your opinions on how I can best do this, what I should base my ROM on and anything else you might think I need to know.
Peace.
It's a great idea for a workplace to go with android for employees given the ability to create more secure levels of access since it's based on linux. Also the ability to tailor the OS and UI to suite the needs of the business are something that's desired more and more these days. The downfalls you'll have to overcome are battery power (stripped down OS could nix that) and the fact that most companies will lean more towards Blackberry for two main reasons.
First is security, lets face it, Google is the internet for the most part and a lot of people fear the unknown such as where does their data go and what's done with it. Is it erased (securely)? Is it shared and what about data leaks?
Also, even though I love Android, for a business setting Blackberry has everything right. Android lacks in the 'push' area by a longshot and (from what I've seen) Blackberry supports more email protocals. Let's not forget when you're emailing all day or writing a paper a physical keyboard is more desired, a lot of Android phones lack that.
If the correct phones were chosen and (with a custom ROM and apps) the right measures were taken to address the push issue, plus maybe some sort of native encryption to ease security concerns - I think you could make a very valid argument to use Android phones for their employees. Android beats the othe OS types by a longshot, you just have to address those small but major issues.
Using Android as platform for devices inside an organization makes a lot of sense.
I disagree with KCRic about the superiority of BlackBerry on push and mail systems compatibility. Remember that BB requires you to use a secondary server to "translate" your Exchange, Notes, GroupWise or whatever you have to the devices.
Agree 100% in terms of the keyboard issue.
Something Android has on its side is that Google is the internet. Android was designed from the bottom up to be a "connected" platform. This means mobile devices with ample access to databases and hosted applications. If a business is still wondering if the data on the cloud is the solution, they may not be here on the next decade.
Believe me, you don't find many devices with VPN support, something that is already supported on most Android ROMs. Secure connections and a secure local storage can be easily achieved, the tools are already there.
Think also not only on phones but many other devices (tablets, kiosks, etc) that can benefit from this idea.
I think the major obstacle will be to convince the service provider to let your organization put customized ROMs on the devices. They will panic. Maybe if your agreement says that you provide the support. I already have to go through some of this (on a different initiative) and it is not easy.
KCRic was right about blackberry .... was. The Droid Pro puts that puppy to bed for good, I think. To the OP, your company needs to take back that desire and get ahold of a Droid pro for you. That'll be the (as of right now) best device for workplace use and give you the best launch-off point.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Thank you gentlemen, I appreciate your input!
My company will most likely be standardizing on the Desire Z as the 'top notch' phone - And some sort of first level entry phone for employees that don't need aweesomesauce features. I've begun dissecting my own ROM using dsiXDA's kitchen. If my company is going to settle on Android as a platform I will have to build the ROM from source, though. Seeing as when I'm finished with my internship someone else will have to continue development on the ROM.
Right now I'm going to dissect a couple of ROMS. My place of work wants to see which of the two fits best for us: AOSP or Sense. I'm an AOSP man myself but Sense is easier to use for 'newbies' and it's also easier to configure too look-and-work-just-like-this, if that makes sense. THANKFULLY dxiXDA's kitchen exists so the workload isn't .. ****ty just yet.
Again, thank you for your input!
zHk3R said:
Thank you gentlemen, I appreciate your input!
My company will most likely be standardizing on the Desire Z as the 'top notch' phone - And some sort of first level entry phone for employees that don't need aweesomesauce features. I've begun dissecting my own ROM using dsiXDA's kitchen. If my company is going to settle on Android as a platform I will have to build the ROM from source, though. Seeing as when I'm finished with my internship someone else will have to continue development on the ROM.
Right now I'm going to dissect a couple of ROMS. My place of work wants to see which of the two fits best for us: AOSP or Sense. I'm an AOSP man myself but Sense is easier to use for 'newbies' and it's also easier to configure too look-and-work-just-like-this, if that makes sense. THANKFULLY dxiXDA's kitchen exists so the workload isn't .. ****ty just yet.
Again, thank you for your input!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't want the employees messing around with their phones, I'd definately exclude the Market app (Vending.apk) and include the apps of which you believe they are necessary. There's just to much crap in the market and even if it isn't meant to damage your phone, it still can do some damage if you put too much apps with the same functions on it. Experience? Yes, with my X10. The thing was damn slow until I removed a whole bunch of apps.
So, if rooting the g tablet is the way to go, it surely must stand up to a few simple speed checks. Has anyone posted various root's numbers or have some to post?
Stuff like, time to boot? Time to load common apps? Time to open the same web page? Frames on games? Time to download? Max browser pages open? Other relevant numbers welcome...
As far as I can tell, without any objective numbers comparing root performance, a lot of this rooting fad raves could just be subjective reported elation about being able to be different.
Granted, originally, the Gtab OS had some flaws. That's old news, get over it. How do the current roots compare with OTA version 3588? I'm somewhat shocked not one of the pack of geeks that have rooted their G tab hasn't backed up their raves with real numbers...
Granted, being rooted to the latest vegan might get access to the full Android market, and perhaps even future updates in Android... However, if I'm finding most of what I want at Amazon Android, is rooting worth the trouble until the roots and android versions stabilize? Show us the NUMBERS...!
I've been there done that with this subjective stuff long enough not to be swayed without real numbers...
Also, do any of these roots do OTA auto updates or do root updates require a download & re-root? Just asking...
Jesus christ if you can't do a simple search for benchmark tests then I highly suggest getting the ipad2. I hear that the ipad 2 reads your mind so out don't have to do any search. We've only had a kazillion threads on this.
Edit
This is not to mention all the YouTube vids on this people have posted.
Edit again.
Actually, here are a few.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1047098&highlight=benchmark+2011
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12984546&postcount=9
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12986416&postcount=10
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12986416&postcount=10
Edit again.
I'm serious, I highly suggest the ipad 2 to everyone I talk to. Speaking as someone who repairs computers as a side job, I'm fully aware that most people want to be spoon fed everything, which is why the ipad 2 is the ideal device for most people. If people want to complain about nothing, let apple deal with them.
Thanks for the links.
However, as best as I can tell, they seem to verify that the OTA updated Gtablet is about the same speed as Vegan in the benchmarks when the CPU speeds are similar.
However, do the benchmarks used translate into much of relevance to speed of actually using the tablet to open programs, boot the tablet, download & open web pages. Stuff that people actually do with the tablet... Unless that's what the benchmarks are testing... But that info isn't provided in the links. Again -- weak...
The numbers and detail provided in these links deserve barely more than a C grade, if that... And what they provide seems to be at equal speeds, the current OTA updated gtab OS works fine... As long as you don't need the full Adroid market...
You Tube links? As best as I can tell, not one of them is an objective comparison with the OTA 3588 update gtab. They are just videos of vegan working... As far as real world numbers and comparisons -- Grade D-...
Where are the Grade A numbers? It's not that I don't believe the ROMs are not an improvement, it's just where are the numbers to support these raves?
What exactly are you looking for? There are no hard numbers when it comes to real world use, just your user experience versus mine.
You're not telling us what you want. You said you wanted numbers so I gave you a bunch. Then you say you don't want those numbers. So, I ask again. What do you want?
I'll be brutally honest on this one. Vegan isn't that fast. From all my tests, Calkulin+Clemsyn combo is by far the fastest custom rom+kernel for the gtab.
After trying out everything, I'm back to Calkulin+Clemsyn combo.
Would you like me to make a video of myself openning various programs and post it for you? What do you want?
I'm thinking you should drop that 'r' from your handle.
You also have a misconception of what rooting is/does.
To become root in Linux/Android is to gain administrative privileges. In windows root would be called Administrator. Gaining root privileges gives you the ability to change system files and settings, NOTHING MORE. By itself it does nothing.
Now boys...
The fact is that if you need numbers, reports,testimonials or anything else to justify mucking around with the gtab thenyou probably should just get an iPad. Nothing to prove then -everyone "knows" its the best-no numbers needed! The gtab is for people that don't mind the hardware and software quirks as long as they have the freedom to mess around. Its not about the numbers -its about the experience.
[Q] Why should we ..?!
Droofus said:
I've been there done that with this subjective stuff long enough not to be swayed without real numbers...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I am not sure anyone here is trying to sway you in one direction or the others.
Here is how things go in community forums like this one:
- People search for what they got in mind first.
- If they didn't find its either undoable or not that interesting for the community that no one bothered doing it.
- In both case those people are expected to either drop whatever they are wishing for or pursuit it on there own and then share their findings with the community.
In other words, why the heck am I supposed to go beyond whatever benchmarks readily available on the market to show YOU how good/bad are custom firmwares compared to stock ones when :
- custom firmwares are volatile and each couple of days there is a new rom or rom add on or a kernel released (am I supposed to maintain the stats for every single update released ? else how meaningful would be my outdated stats to you? when it represents a ROM that is no longer a candidate)
- the whole flash back and forth and in between roms is a 10~20 minutes process of YOUR time which would suffice to answer all your questions.
If you still need some usability tests (you can use your own stop watch to time through the videos) you might want to check here.
Best of luck,
Zaphod-Beeblebrox said:
I'm thinking you should drop that 'r' from your handle.
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Click to collapse
I think this was the best answer.
The information you are demanding is indicating your ignorance. As was already stated rooting does nothing for performance. If you want numbers you can install each rom and test with each kernel setting whatever your heart desires. Its not likely anyone else even cares as most people only care about stability and a lack of lag
Droofus said:
So, if rooting the g tablet is the way to go, it surely must stand up to a few simple speed checks. Has anyone posted various root's numbers or have some to post?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooting itself does nothing other than giving you root - the speed of your device before and after rooting is identical.
Now, if you want to talk about the speeds with or without an overclocked kernel, or with a custom Froyo vs custom Ginger vs stock rom, as others have said there are plenty of posts out there.
Mine lasted on the stock rom for exactly one boot after opening the box - so I could copy on the bits to begin the rooting/custom rom flashing goodness.
cu_ninja said:
What exactly are you looking for? There are no hard numbers when it comes to real world use, just your user experience versus mine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I'm looking for is defined, at least in part, in the first post. Copy and pasted here for your convenience.
Stuff like, time to boot? Time to load common apps? Time to open the same web page? Frames on games? Time to download? Max browser pages open? Other relevant numbers welcome...
If I go to a notebookcheck.net/Computer-Games-on-Laptop-Graphic-Cards, the various card performances in various games are reviewed. The reviews are very professionally and objectively done with detail. Clicking on any specific card opens a detailed review of that card. This allows users to make decisions based upon what sorts of (graphic game) uses they might actually have.
It seems a similar but much smaller objective set of benchmarks could be performed on the various g tablet roots using a set of common uses in part noted above. It doesn't need to be as elaborate or detailed as the video card review site noted above. Just objectively testing a few simple end user tasks would seem to be adequate to get beyond the subjective raves that one commonly sees about this or that OS change...
FYI, part of this is related to my background as a doctor (plus a computer background dating back beyond the Apple II to programming FORTRAN and COMPASS on mainframes in the 1960s). As doctors we are constantly bombarded with all sorts of anecdotal raves about this or that treatment all the time, only to find that they aren't supported by actual objective research -- some cause harm, not healing. Fortunately for those promoting software changes related to raves and fads don't have the potential to cause anyone significant harm... Excuse me if I'd like to see similar objective professional 'standards of care' when it comes to reviewing and analyzing software/hardware fads. I'm sure there are plenty of others in the audience who'd feel the same...
So is this a religious thread, I see Jesus was mentioned.
Actually sometimes you modders act like it.
I'll get the other times later. Here is the startup time.
Droofus said:
FYI, part of this is related to my background as a doctor (plus a computer background dating back beyond the Apple II to programming FORTRAN and COMPASS on mainframes in the 1960s). As doctors we are constantly bombarded with all sorts of anecdotal raves about this or that treatment all the time, only to find that they aren't supported by actual objective research -- some cause harm, not healing. Fortunately for those promoting software changes related to raves and fads don't have the potential to cause anyone significant harm... Excuse me if I'd like to see similar objective professional 'standards of care' when it comes to reviewing and analyzing software/hardware fads. I'm sure there are plenty of others in the audience who'd feel the same...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, while I can see your point, I also have to point out the other side of the argument. I am an engineer. Last year, we got a college graduate who, from the outlook, had all the numbers and credentials. He graduated with almost a perfect gpa. Sounds nice, right? He had all the numbers. The problem was as soon as he began working with us we figured out very quickly that we had a book smart-absolutely no common sense person with us. I swear, he pulled me aside one time and asked me why they were "watering the concrete slabs" in the lab. It got worse from there. I had to explain to him very basic engineering concepts and applications like stirrups, slippage, etc.
This guy actually went through college getting the grades and everything without actually understanding any of it. He graduated with a structural engineering degree without knowing the very simple practical processes of curing concrete or reinforcing footings.
The point is numbers can be deceiving if you ignore annecdotal (aka common sense) evidence. You need both objective numbers and common sense to work in reality. Sure, I've heard plenty of annecdotal nonsense like creationist BS, religious miracles, and homeopathic crap. I'll give you that. But you seem to be on the other extreme side, which is to ignore all personal evidence and place all your bets on pure numbers.
I'm telling you now. We got both the numbers and personal evidence. I'll try to get them for you.
Doofus
I like the list of missing benchmarks you listed. Why don't you measure them and report back?
Droofus said:
What I'm looking for is defined, at least in part, in the first post. Copy and pasted here for your convenience.
Stuff like, time to boot? Time to load common apps? Time to open the same web page? Frames on games? Time to download? Max browser pages open? Other relevant numbers welcome...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All those numbers are identical before and after rooting your device since nothing changes before and after root, other than you now have root access.
That was easy.
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Theres some more random numbers
While watching everyone bash eachother here has its entertainment i have some advice.
Droofus
1 i would recomend not comming into a community forum and bashing people who put a lot of effort into making the product you own better. These people don't get paid for the hours of work they put in.
2 if you don't like how thing are done around here take the time to be a good example and do it better. You clearly have an idea in your head on how to make a professional stastical representation of the roms so do it.
3 what some people are trying to tell you is that it is not all about the numbers. Some people want gingerbread features. Right now all of the gingerbread roms suck for video performance due to driver issues so i don't use them. I like the gingerbread features but i watch videos a lot so i use a froyo rom. Others really care about performance so they give up some stability and overlock.
4 people around here get upset when the same question gets asked over and over again. If you have done some reasearch reference other articles to show that.
5 this is a dual core tablet, what are you doing that you care that much about preformance.
This thing is faster than my netbook.
6 dropping your title on us just makes you sound pretentious. There are a lot of very intellgent successful people here who are not impressed by doctors or your past experience. If you have useful skills to the community don't brag just use them and people will be grateful.
7 people were a little rude about it but they are right. I tell people that if they want something that is easy go buy an ipad or a xoom. If you want something for under 300 then buy a g tab and understand that with some effort it can be great.
Everyone
1 relax... starting flame wars with someone who doesn't know their way around isn't going to help anyone.
I forgot to mention that traditionally us geeks are known for our lack of formal documentation.
P.s. while many of us proudly wear the badge of geek calling us a pack of geeks is a little adversarial.
I have some ideas for a heavily customized Android tablet for an industrial use. Most of the customizations involve taking things OUT and locking stuff down, durability a plus as well.
I sent a couple emails to Chinese companies but didn't get any response, and am also a bit worried about them stealing my ideas and running with 'em.
Any pointers/advice?
When your idea is greater then great then can you register your idea with patents.
But you need to know that patents are realy expensive and some company's copy all things what they see.
You can better search for a buddy who has knowledge for manufacture in China or an other cheap country.
know that big companies like Foxxcon make only big orders.
Yep, that's pretty much where I'm at right now. Not sure of how to proceed patent-wise and not really wanting to work with Chinese companies either way.
Cheap isn't paramount for this application, if anybody knows of any more local resources for android hardware I could talk to...
Only have time for a real quick reply right now to a very deep topic...
I would say your best bet is to look into various 'open source' models. Look at the the DIYdrone community. You can get Android running on a little ARM processor. Or for a turnkey dev solution:
liquidware.com/shop/show/BB-AND-DEV/Android+Hardware+Development+Kit
Throw it in a Pelican case and you've got yourself a proof-of-concept. Which is what you're gonna need to raise any venture capitol if you pick that route...
As far as patents... this can also get you some credibility with venture capitalists... you can file a patent yourself for pretty cheap but don't expect it to hold against any big boys though...
Good luck, there's a lot to learn, making a bunch of Engineering/Programming/Business friends and having your girl pick the outfit before the big pitch!
Cheers
Android on a chip
Hi koob,
Thanks for the useful reply. Do you have any additional tips on getting Android running on the simplest circuit possible?
Using phones for development is possible but not ideal as we're using some of the newer features of the OS (e.g. ADK), and unlocked phones supporting it are somewhat expensive.
I'm interested in two stages, prototyping (I couldn't find much in the DIYDrones community on this), and manufacturing (maybe companies like Shenzhen Xinkenmingteng Industry Technology on Alibaba could take a functional spec or a PCB design?).
Many thanks for your help.
Bump! I would also be interested in hearing more about this, as we want to develop a custom mobile monitoring device, using Android so as to save us the effort of writing firmware for the wireless communications, display, touchscreen, etc. Like TheCritic, we're interested in locking it down - replacing the OS's main functionality with some skin or app we write ourselves.
The Liquidware Android Hardware Development Kit is interesting, but has many things we don't need and misses a few things we do. We're just not sure where to begin choosing the hardware and working with the kernel, device drivers, etc. Any pointers would be very appreciated.
Any progress here?
I have a pretty similar situation. Having a cool idea that would need only a few features from android. Did you develop your platform? Or found someone who did it for you?
Nothing other than what's seen here, though there were more useful replies than I'd remembered to this thread!
Hi Guys
apologies if this has already been answered i did search and found a few pots but they didn't give me all the information i was hoping for or match my criteria exactly.
Ok so i have a 3 year old son,
his hand to eye coordination is coming along and ever since he's been able to unlock his mothers ipad we cant get him off it.
i have no problem with him using the technology at such a young age in moderation and im sure it can be quite educational with the right apps etc.
however using his mothers ipad is not ideal, its totally open he could accidentally press anything from in app purchases or anything that is available on the internet which is a scary thing.
we came to the conclusion that he needs his own tablet, that we can load with selected app's and he can play etc.
i looked at the tablets designed specifically for kids like the vtech's leapfrogs etc but im not exactly sure they will be the best way forward because they wont really grow with him yes they are probably great for a certain age range but as he gets older it will loose its usefulness.
i need something that's going to be pretty much a disposable price (£30/£60) lets be frank this is probably going to be destroyed on several occasions.
so i want want an android tablet the bigger size the better. I need it to be able to root the device as i want to take advantage fully of titanium back and restore direct to a replacement device if needed.
needs to be able to run sort of childrens apps available i know the can be a broad spectrum but lets just say the average ones (processor / memory consumption wise)
i have seen lots of different softwares to lock the os down, so only use certain apps etc but any other suggestions would be great. or anyone who has made something similar.
cheers guys
cap
There's a dedicated thread for such questions here,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1620179
I'll close this thread.
Good luck!
Question: Are there Android ROM's or skins specifically designed to be "dumb" for the elderly or autistic? Main features would be phone, messaging, basic apps, gps monitoring etc.
My younger brother is autistic and is approaching the point where he could move into a shared home or similar, but it would be nice to give him functions that he is already familiar with in a phone, like a full, on screen keyboard. There are simple phones available of course, but most use t9, and the worry is that he will not be able to get a hang of that. A full keyboard slider phone could be an option, but being the techie I am, It may be just as easy to modify a cheap smartphone, so he has the appearance of a simple smartphone but with software catered more towards specific use cases.
Any help or pointing in the right direction would be much appreciated!
Thanks!
-Jason