Well I downloaded cpu master (free) to just mess around with my photon, and come to find out, the governor for the cpu is set to performance, but gave me the option to change it to powersave, so I switch it and I'll report back to you guys and see if I've found the holy Grail to even better battery life
Sent from my MoPho using XDA App
That's awesome
Sent from my MB855 using xda premium
Wait until I or another dev gets onDemand governor enabled...
I have SetCPU, and honestly, I haven't noticed a huge difference in battery life with powersave unless I seriously scale the CPU back to like 300 mhz. Then it'll last a while, if I don't do ANYTHING with it. For example, when I'm sleeping, otherwise, it just makes the phone laggy and doesn't seem to help enough to make it worth while. Just my opinion from screwing with it.
xTMFxOffshore said:
I have SetCPU, and honestly, I haven't noticed a huge difference in battery life with powersave unless I seriously scale the CPU back to like 300 mhz. Then it'll last a while, if I don't do ANYTHING with it. For example, when I'm sleeping, otherwise, it just makes the phone laggy and doesn't seem to help enough to make it worth while. Just my opinion from screwing with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The general consensus regarding over/underclocking when I had my HTC Hero was that overclocking would save battery because you could get what you wanted done faster. If you scale the CPU back massively while it is set to sleep, however, you will save a lot of battery.
xTMFxOffshore said:
I have SetCPU, and honestly, I haven't noticed a huge difference in battery life with powersave unless I seriously scale the CPU back to like 300 mhz. Then it'll last a while, if I don't do ANYTHING with it. For example, when I'm sleeping, otherwise, it just makes the phone laggy and doesn't seem to help enough to make it worth while. Just my opinion from screwing with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, i don't know about your phone or what else you have setup, but my phone didn't lag and it seemed to help, i currently have my evo 3d active so my photon just sits there, so i can give a good feedback of idle time, but i can tell you after switching the governor, it went down 1% in 2 hours, now i say that's an improvement, so when i get back home i'll really give you guys some feedback
P.S. with any phone i had that had a fully custom kernal, i always used conservative governor
Well, perhaps it's just the apps I have running then. As I said, when it's set to sleep, it works pretty well with the powersave mode, otherwise, doesn't seem to make any real difference. Guess it's different for everyone cause of the **** they're running on their phone.
mrinehart93 said:
The general consensus regarding over/underclocking when I had my HTC Hero was that overclocking would save battery because you could get what you wanted done faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know, I've never bought into this argument. To me, it is like saying that if I drive 100 mph I will get there faster, so I use less gas....which we all know is not how it works.
Maybe the physics are different for processors then they are for engines, but I think there is probably a happy medium somewhere. And I have a feeling that the manufactures really take this into consideration when they develop the kernels and ROMs. However, I might be wrong.
This is by no means an effort to discourage your awesome work. Everyone gets different results, but stock always seems to have the best battery life for me once all the bloat is gone. However, custom kernels do perform better. That is the trade off, in my opinion.
my2cents said:
You know, I've never bought into this argument. To me, it is like saying that if I drive 100 mph I will get there faster, so I use less gas....which we all know is not how it works.
Maybe the physics are different for processors then they are for engines, but I think there is probably a happy medium somewhere. And I have a feeling that the manufactures really take this into consideration when they develop the kernels and ROMs. However, I might be wrong.
This is by no means an effort to discourage your awesome work. Everyone gets different results, but stock always seems to have the best battery life for me once all the bloat is gone. However, custom kernels do perform better. That is the trade off, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol honestly I never bought into it either. I was just posting was the other devs at the time said. Even using an OC kernel, I never overclocked my phone.
mrinehart93 said:
Lol honestly I never bought into it either. I was just posting was the other devs at the time said. Even using an OC kernel, I never overclocked my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting...I hadn't thought about using an OC kernel and underclocking it back to stock. I wonder what that does, if anything, to performance.
The other concern that I have is that overclocking typically means more heat, which means more battery use... Just figured I would throw that out there too.
well, the results are in, now granted i already had the photon of the charge for more then 24 hours, so at 1d 15hr 57m and 10s i'm at 48%, but from the time i started the cpu test, 1:30pm, it was at 68% so in 8 horus there was only a 20% drop while idle, i say that's a good score , you guys tell me otherwise
A2CKilla said:
well, the results are in, now granted i already had the photon of the charge for more then 24 hours, so at 1d 15hr 57m and 10s i'm at 48%, but from the time i started the cpu test, 1:30pm, it was at 68% so in 8 horus there was only a 20% drop while idle, i say that's a good score , you guys tell me otherwise
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and just an update, in another 4 hours, it's only gone down 2%!!!!!! come on guys, these numbers can't lie, but remember this is idle feedback, i'll re-activate my photon at the end of the week (missing the beast!) to give more detail feedback on heavy usage and most importantly 4g!!
Development. Development. Development.
Sent from my MB855 using xda premium
Not sure if this will help but let me explain the car analogy. All motors have an effeciency range at x amount of throttle. So same cars will get better gas mileage at a higher speed vs a lower one. Its getting up to that speed where most energy is used.
So let me move this over to electronics. If you run a faster clock speed while on, your apps will open faster so that ia less on time for the screen and other processes that have to run. So using more watts for less time does not always equal more than using less watts for more time. We just need to fill in those blanks and obviously overclocking will not benefit the nook or internet reader as it eould someone who opens a lot of apps for short periods. Same is true for a gamer .
Hope that makes sense and this is all IMHO of course.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA App
scoobdude said:
Not sure if this will help but let me explain the car analogy. All motors have an effeciency range at x amount of throttle. So same cars will get better gas mileage at a higher speed vs a lower one. Its getting up to that speed where most energy is used.
So let me move this over to electronics. If you run a faster clock speed while on, your apps will open faster so that ia less on time for the screen and other processes that have to run. So using more watts for less time does not always equal more than using less watts for more time. We just need to fill in those blanks and obviously overclocking will not benefit the nook or internet reader as it eould someone who opens a lot of apps for short periods. Same is true for a gamer .
Hope that makes sense and this is all IMHO of course.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me start this off by saying that I am an agricultural engineer by trade. With that said, I would agree that engines have an efficiency range. However, I would not agree that it is at x throttle. Rather, it is a x load. And most cars are designed to be at optimal load at about 60 mph (wind resist, weight, etc. play a role in this). You're right, it does require more fuel to get to that speed because the load is higher until that speed is reached. Furthermore, higher speeds (greater than 60 mph) do NOT translate into higher fuel mileages because the load increases to maintain the higher speed (because there is more wind resistance, among other things).
I know a bit about electricity too, but I don't fully understand the physics behind circuit boards. However, I think the analogy still holds. I can get to 60 mph as fast as I want, but the faster I do it the more energy is required. Therefore, even though it is done faster it still requires more energy, which also creates more heat, both of which use the battery. So, I continue to contend that there is a happy medium that most be found and I think electronic engineers aren't to far off.
Here is a little more reading about car efficiency, if you are interested: http://www.mpgforspeed.com/
I believe your confusing overclocking and overvolting. We are putting x volts into the processor so the more cycles we can get in x volts the better. If we have to overvolt to overclock then we see big battery hits.
Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk
2cents, that link is interesting but real world examples have proven otherwise to me. Our saab will do better on mpg at 70 to 75 (30 on cruise control) vs 55 to 65(27 to 28 on cruise). Now the wrx is another story as well. With the old 3.9 final drive i would pull in more air at the airflow meter at 65 than i would at 70 with stoich as the target a/f ratio, and because that motor was doing under 2500 rpms the turbo was out of the equation further taking out efficiency with it. Now with the 4.44 and a better 1-2 gear ratio car gets better at the lower engine speeds and accelerates even better and that was before i retuned it.
Another misconception is bigger motors use more gas, one of the recent corvettes get 30 on the highway proving that there is more to this as well.
I think i have taken this off topic enoigh for now. But in general i think my formula still needs to be applied to see the results as a valid number to compare overclocking and underclocking to running stock.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA App
i'm surprised no one even thought of this topic, regardless if things are getting done "faster" you are overclocking the cpu, making it go faster then what it's suppose to, which makes it use more power i.e. more battery, every phone that i had when i overclocked it, the battery wouldn't last too long, even with my 3500mah OG evo, if i overclocked it, i couldn't get a whole day, so underclocking will have the same effect in a sense since the processor now has to work harder to do what it does at it's stock clocked speed, well, hope anything i said here makes any logical sense, but on another note, the photon has gone almost 3 days unplugged!!!
again it depends on how the overclock is achieved. In most cases overclock is achieved by dumping more electricity into the cpu this will impact battery life, however alot of chips these days can be overclocked at the same volts essentially upping the "MPG" or clocks per volt.
A2CKilla said:
i'm surprised no one even thought of this topic, regardless if things are getting done "faster" you are overclocking the cpu, making it go faster then what it's suppose to, which makes it use more power i.e. more battery, every phone that i had when i overclocked it, the battery wouldn't last too long, even with my 3500mah OG evo, if i overclocked it, i couldn't get a whole day, so underclocking will have the same effect in a sense since the processor now has to work harder to do what it does at it's stock clocked speed, well, hope anything i said here makes any logical sense, but on another note, the photon has gone almost 3 days unplugged!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this for the most part. When it comes to power the end result is watts, which is essentially equal to volts x amps. It is not perfect because of a power factor, but it is close. Therefore, if you lower the voltage, the amperage goes up because the same watts are required to run the processor. The inverse is also true. These processors have voltage ranges that they will safely run in, but in the end, they require the same energy (in watts) to function at a given load. Change one a little bit (the voltage for example) and the other (amperage) compensates. Change it a lot and it likely wont work. Again, this is how it works for your typical home appliances. For a circuit board, it might be a slightly different story, but I imagine the science does not change.
---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:47 PM ----------
scoobdude said:
2cents, that link is interesting but real world examples have proven otherwise to me. Our saab will do better on mpg at 70 to 75 (30 on cruise control) vs 55 to 65(27 to 28 on cruise). Now the wrx is another story as well. With the old 3.9 final drive i would pull in more air at the airflow meter at 65 than i would at 70 with stoich as the target a/f ratio, and because that motor was doing under 2500 rpms the turbo was out of the equation further taking out efficiency with it. Now with the 4.44 and a better 1-2 gear ratio car gets better at the lower engine speeds and accelerates even better and that was before i retuned it.
Another misconception is bigger motors use more gas, one of the recent corvettes get 30 on the highway proving that there is more to this as well.
I think i have taken this off topic enoigh for now. But in general i think my formula still needs to be applied to see the results as a valid number to compare overclocking and underclocking to running stock.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may be right. Perhaps Saab designed their fuel efficiency at 70 mph. It's possible because many speed limits are now at or near that, but in general, optimal fuel consumption is going to be at or near 60 mph. Obviously gear ratios and such play a huge role in fuel economy. It is like using a custom rom, typically your mods will make it perform better, but the best fuel economy or battery life will come with a stock like setup.
Sure a corvette can have HP and economy. There is a power to weight ratio and lots of aerodynamics involved, which again is designed at a specific speed. But there is no way that a dragster will have a good fuel efficiency. To my point, there is a balance...
I agree, we are off topic a little bit, but the conversation is interesting, nonetheless.
By the way, can a mod move this to general, please?
Related
So this is a development idea...
I thought about this the other day and realized that under volting could be causing my battery to die quickly...
Here's why.
V = I * R
Where v = volts, I = amps, R = ohms.
P = V * I
Where P = (power)watts
I know some of you are going to think that this doesn't belong in development, but here me out here.
So if the processor uses 1.5 Watts and we decrease the voltage, this means that the processor needs to increase current to maintain that power. This equates to reduced battery life.
I'm just suggesting that undervolting may be causing the low battery life. If you know better feel free to tell me I'm wrong, but please explain the mechanics of what is going on not just your theory.
This question is over my head so I'll refrain from speculating directly on your theory. But real-world results with my undervolted Stupidfast 1.54 kernel gives me much better battery life than stock. Yes, this may be due also to the unbloated-ness as well so I'm not 100% certain the undervolting is the main help here
Well....I dunno how this applies to CPUs but.... I used to be a car audio installer/buff and when we noticed voltage sagging to an amplifier, the amplifier would compensate by pulling more amperage at the lower voltage. It never seemed to make much different to the batteries, but it did make the amps run much hotter...so....
Again, not sure if it would tie in, but....
Hmm I've never thought about that. From my RC knowledge the most efficient set ups are the ones that use high voltage but low amps.
I may have to try a OV kernel and see if I notice a difference...
Sent from my Samsung Fascinate running BH3.0, DL09, 125mv undervolt Voodoo5 using SwiftKey and Tapatalk
As a disclaimer, I have not performed any formal reading on this topic, these are just my idle ramblings.
My contention has been that you only enjoy the benefits of a UV kernel if you are a certain type of user.
If you are performing CPU intensive tasks, you reap the most benefit from the UV kernel because it needs less power to run at 1 GHz (or whatever the maximum clock speed is set to for that kernel).
If you spend alot of time idling, for instance reading interspersed by web requests, you are spending most of your time at the minimum clock speed. With the stock kernel, that is set to 0.1 GHz. With a UV kernel, the minimum clock needs to be set to something higher to keep the CPU running. You may be able to estimate what this speed needs to be based on the fundamental power calculations in the OP.
The governor quickly changes your clock speed based on your current usage & requirements. To make optimal use of the CPU governor, it should have access to the broadest possible range of speeds (without going higher than is useful/safe). Unfortunately, undervolting a kernel sacrifices some of the lower end of that range. Therefore, many users see much improved battery life, while others (like me) experience noticeably diminished overall performance from UV kernels.
Swyped w/ XDA App. When in doubt, mumble.
P=V*I
The processor does not draw a constant power, but it does have a minimum. The point of undervolting is bringing the power consumption to that minimum within the phones physical environment and user expectations of functionality.
So...
You are right.
However, processor frequency is dependant on current. Thus if you are undervolting to save battery life then you will need to keep your frequency the same or lower to notice a difference. If you are overclocking (increasing current) and undervolting then your P stays the same so the user ends up feeling the battery life to be the same or worse.
Facundo
Are there any standard or over volt kernels available so we can test this theory? It seems as though all the kernels available are UV.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
would you like a standard voltage kernel to test?
Personally I see worse battery life on UV kernel. My usage mostly equals to dumb phone, with email sync and moderate web browsing.
I would change formula to I = V/R, which will read as current is directly proportional to voltage and inversely proportional to resistance. That makes obvious that reducing voltage we decrease current. However one point to note here is that this law is for PASSIVE conductor, which is obviously not our case. I would not speculate further, because we do not know what king of power conversion happens. It might simply turn out that conversion is not efficient at lower voltages. Google desktop power block certifications/efficiency to see whet I mean.
I compiled some kernels so you folks can play with it. I SERIOUSLY doubt you will get better life with my stock voltage vs. undervolt, but give her a shot.
Undervolted
Voodoo
http://adrynalyne.us/files/kernels/adryn_test2_0116_fascinate_voodoo5.zip
Nonvoodoo
http://adrynalyne.us/files/kernels/adryn_test2_0116_fascinate_novoodooo.zip
Standard voltage
Voodoo
http://adrynalyne.us/files/kernels/adryn_sv_0116_fascinate_voodoo5.zip
Nonvoodoo
http://adrynalyne.us/files/kernels/adryn_sv_0116_fascinate_novoodoo.zip
I'm giving the SV Voodoo kernel a try right now.
Sent from my Samsung Fascinate running BH3.0, DL09, and Voodoo5 using SwiftKey and Tapatalk
I thought about this as I thought about power lines. They use super high voltages to reduce the amount of power loss through the lines.
Anyways, sounds good, I'll test it out. I'd have to get a baseline. I guess I'll charge my phone right now and test out the regular voltage.
I'll let you guys know tomorrow the differences tomorrow.
In all honesty, I don't ever feel that I get more juice out of unvervolt kernels and I've been using all kinds of kernels since the release of MT3G.
Thanks for the standard voltage kernel!
I do appreciate you efforts in continually optimizing these, having a baseline to compare to just makes it all the more wonderful.
I will give the SV (standard voltage) a day or so of testing and then compare the UV against to make the test fair. With ten minutes of use ^^, it is already a great contender for my daily driver. I had gone back to 11/29 from 12/30. 11/29 was a terrible pairing with DL09; my GPS was unusable.
$ busybox md5sum ad*.zip
aea1047f3b2d33e759064d47cc8cac27 adryn_sv_0116_fascinate_novoodoo.zip
Works great!
Swyped w/ XDA App. When in doubt, mumble.
I wonder if android has battery test application, just to be put everything in the same play field? It's kind of pointless to compare subjectively.
Well, I tried to be objective with this test I just did.
Here were my conditions:
Charge to full, write down the time it was at full charge which wasn't 100%.
Let it sit for one hour.
Write down the charge.
SV Conditions
Starting charge 99%
Ending charge 97%
UV Conditions
Starting charge 98%
Ending charge 96%
The results...
SV - 3% discharge / hour
UV - 2% discharge / hour
Errors analysis:
There are several issues with this test because they were not even at the same charge at the start. Batteries have their maximum charge at 100%, and the rate of decrease is not a linear decrease. More testing is needed to compare the results.
Also the duration is not long and other factors have not been considered such as background applications refreshing on their own. I will have to test for 8-10 hours of each at idling tomorrow to get an accurate measurement.
Currently, I'm still on the UV kernel and I'll publish my results tomorrow of the UV over the 10 hour period.
Then I'll try to not use my phone throughout the day and test the SV.
It would be nice if someone could test the SV and UV with moderate usage and write down the initial charge, final charge, and the duration between the measurements. And another using heavy usage.
Thanks.
RacerXFD said:
SV Conditions
Starting charge 99%
Ending charge 97%
UV Conditions
Starting charge 98%
Ending charge 96%
The results...
SV - 3% discharge / hour
UV - 2% discharge / hour
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im confused with your math here...
Yeah, your math is off.....
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
RacerXFD said:
So this is a development idea...
I thought about this the other day and realized that under volting could be causing my battery to die quickly...
Here's why.
V = I * R
Where v = volts, I = amps, R = ohms.
P = V * I
Where P = (power)watts
I know some of you are going to think that this doesn't belong in development, but here me out here.
So if the processor uses 1.5 Watts and we decrease the voltage, this means that the processor needs to increase current to maintain that power. This equates to reduced battery life.
I'm just suggesting that undervolting may be causing the low battery life. If you know better feel free to tell me I'm wrong, but please explain the mechanics of what is going on not just your theory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm an electrical engineer, and none of this makes any sense. V=IR is for current and voltage going through/across a constant resistor. Transistors are not constant resistors. The current through a Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor (MOSFET), the type of transistor that is in basically all ICs, is always in positive relation to the voltage, at least for the purposes of this basic explanation. Decreasing the supply voltage, which is you can consider to be the VGS of a transistor for a simple analysis, is always going to decrease the current as well. Thus, depending on the range of operation of the MOSFET, decreasing the voltage will also decrease the current and thus power will decrease more than linearly. Less current means that the transistors will charge and discharge capacitances slower, and that's why you need voltages for higher clock speeds and overclocking IN GENERAL. Device physics is really weird.
Now, someone else was saying that maybe because you undervolt it less current goes through which means it needs to spend more time in a higher clock state. This is completely false, the current going through it has nothing to do directly with the amount of work done. Yes, you need more current for faster clock speeds, but at a given clock speed, it doesn't matter how much voltage or current there is and how fast the individual parts of the circuit work, as long as the longest delay in any part of the circuit is less than the clock rate. If it's longer than the clock period, then your circuit is no longer going to function and you'll have instability and crashes, but there is a bit of wiggle room designed into these circuits because each chip can be different. That's why you can overclock or undervolt a CPU, because obviously if it was designed to run at the fastest clock speed possible, any little variation in supply voltage, temperature, manufacturing process/lithography (which is very common) would cause your CPU to completely not function. You have to design your circuits to be tolerant of some amount of error from many sources (even cosmic radiation in some cases), otherwise it won't just be slow, it won't function at all. Logic circuits are clocked to synchronize data going through the circuit, and if the timing constraints aren't always obeyed you'll get wrong answers which would probably crash your OS. Undervolting will never cause the CPU to do less work in one clock cycle, unless you undervolt it too much, in which case things will likely blow up in your face.
Sorry for the wall of text, but hopefully this will clear up some stuff. And in the future, please stick to what you're good at and don't try to speculate things based on one formula that you heard sometime in physics while you were half asleep, or something some CSR told you to get you to shut up. Believe it or not, the people who are designing CPUs and writing/modifying kernels and operating systems actually know what they're doing and you're not going to suddenly realize that they're going about their business wrong because of something you learned in high school.
Edit: One other thing. The calculation of percentages of battery life is a bit of guesswork on the side of your phone, trying to determine via statistics what a voltage level means in terms of percentage of battery life. Battery voltages don't drop linearly as you use them, and can be affected by many things, such as whether it's plugged in to the charger in particular. That's why you see a drop immediately when you unplug your phone, and why looking at 2-3% differences is completely meaningless. The better way to test would be to actually see how long you can use it with an equal amount of work being done on each voltage, which is hard to do in real life. Too many variables are present in today's smartphones, what with background tasks and data coming and going and the like. And wireless radios are a huge battery drain, especially when you're receiving a weak signal. I would advise people to just carry a charger or usb cable with them and top up your battery when you need to rather than worry so much about small differences in battery life. You'll save on a lot of stressing .
Thanks for the explanation. I'm an aerospace engineer. I did have to take a few courses in EE, but nothing to your level. So please let me know if I'm completely off on my testing.
I am pretty sure that the Devs know what they're doing, but I was getting tired of my low battery life and I was willing to test this theory of mine out for them. Again, seriously if I am completely out of the park in terms of this testing, let me know. And I'm ok with being called stupid as long as you teach me what I did wrong...
Yea, I completely forgot how with transistors, the math regarding voltage is handled differently than through a resistor. Are you telling me that the battery life will not be different between standard voltages and under voltages?
EDIT: I understand what you're saying about lowering voltage lowers current because the current has a linear relationship with the voltage in a MOSFET chip. Thanks, I had to read that like 5 times to understand and remind myself.
This is a complete waste of my time at this point because I know what's going on, but I wish to share my results anyways...
Ok here's where I got with the testing since last night. I realize that battery life is nonlinear. But i figure this is better than nothing.
But I did complete 8 hour test of SV at idle.
Starting charge percentage 94%
Ending charge percentage 82%
Which results in 1.5%/hour discharge rate at idle.
Will do the undervolt today. I'll document that in roughly 8 hours.
root rookie here.. First device I ever rooted, really I'm new to cell phones in general.
I flashed this rom adryn bamf 4.1 (non remix) and its working good and all
But I noticed on the smartass setting, which underclocks, that after about an hour or so of playing a game/tv whatever my batter will be around 42C, it seems very hot compared to around 32C before I put this rom and kernal on
Two questions
Am I doing something wrong or is this normal
And, How hot can a battery get before it becomes something to worry about?
Thanks =P
Yea in the 40's is way high. Remember, heat is inefficiency (wasted energy). After playing a game for an hour you will probably be in the mid 30's C. I would recommend trying a different kernel and wiping devlik cache. Also, see what apps and services are running in the background and increase the length of time between syncs. Also, smartass scaling did great on my incredible but I have found that it is not perfected yet for the tb. I would suggest ondemand unless the dev or OP specifically says that smartass is the way to go. As far as heat and battery I find that adrenylyn's kernels do the best. As far as performance, drod and ziggy's seem to fly. Isoman or whatever seems to also be a favorite but I personally didn't have great results. It is important to not supremely OC or UC. I would simply stray away from UC in general. For a daily driver, I would stay under 1.5 Ghz, and honestly 1.2 seems to work best for me. Hope this helps.
thanks for taking the time to respond
So why no under clocking? I assumed it would help battery life but not so much?
Just set to 1200 for both min/max? Or on demand scaling up to 1200?
I prob had a bunch of apps running in the backround, i'm new to droid.. came from an old feature phone
42C is definately too hot! As the previous poster suggested, try a different kernel. There also could be a remote chance your battery is defective.
I really feel like it is more likely that something I am doing is impacting it
I had the phone stock for a week and no problems (same usage)
Rooted but stock rom for a week and no problems
Put this kernal on (which everyone says is really good) and this rom and it was getting hot.. So far it is good around 38-39 (still too high?) with 1200mhz on demand min 256mhz
I flashed 2 different kernals and both times after less than 45 mins of browsing forums and playing home run baseball my battery gets to 42C. Could this be caused by the rom? I wonder if I damaged my battery or phone at this point
Mine got up to 113 degrees over the weekend. It felt like I was cooking my phone off and getting ready to throw it like I do in black ops.
I realized my phone was trying to search for a 4g signal when there was none. I entered #*#*#4636#*#*# on my dial pad to turn it off. It reduced my battery heat by 5 degrees. I should point out I was out in the field. Aka in the middle of nowhere where.
Sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with VirusROM AirborneTB. Xda premium
I'm @ 53.4C right now and it doesn't seem to be charging, lol.
raider3bravo said:
Mine got up to 113 degrees over the weekend. It felt like I was cooking my phone off and getting ready to throw it like I do in black ops.
I realized my phone was trying to search for a 4g signal when there was none. I entered #*#*#4636#*#*# on my dial pad to turn it off. It reduced my battery heat by 5 degrees. I should point out I was out in the field. Aka in the middle of nowhere where.
Sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with VirusROM AirborneTB. Xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but to fly off topic what do you do? I'm generally out in the boondocks when I'm on wellsite...
Sent from my Thunderbolt running CM7...
42c isn't anything out of the ordinary, or outside operational parameters for a battery of that type. Not by a long shot, actually. That battery can safely operate at 59c, but the phone won't charge it north of about 47c due to the fact charging will increase the temperature even more.
As for the governors:
The smartass governor operates similarly to the interactive governor, but isn't as aggressive and allows for wake up lag reduction. The governor SHOULD be your main line of controlling clock speed, not your min and max settings. Some might like to argue that point, but that's mainly because they haven't messed around with governor parameters. With and ondemand or interactive governors, and even some smartass governors (Not Ziggy's modified), it's entirely possible to set min as low as 61MHz, and max at 1.65GHz and have the CPU rarely, if ever, reach those speeds. It depends entirely on what you've set the governor parameters to be. I don't know of any app that allows you to modify those because the locations of the parameters aren't always the same name or in the same places so it's best done through a script. The script I uses does routinely reach up to my freq_max, but it does it fairly aggressively, then ramps down just as aggressively. Part of that is the nature of the lagfree governor, part of it is where I've set the thresholds. In any event, governor control via a script is a much better solution than castrating your device.
Has it ever been heard of that someone killed their gs2 from using 1600mhz in daily use?
My gs2 likes to have 1475 as a minimum voltage for 1600.
sent from I9100 using Omega
Ever rev an engine into the red? Did the engine blow up on the spot? unlikely. However if you constantly KEEP the engine in the red it will eventually break down.
Same thing for OC phones. The processor in the SGS was designed for somewhere around the 1ghz mark. Pushing it 110% likely wont kill it, they build allowances and tolerances into these things to help them last longer. Push that processor to 150% and you are risking serious damage.
Monitor the heat, if you notice its getting HOT then you should really pull the battery and let it sit for a while. Nobody here can say its safe to OC your phone like that, its a calculated risk you obviously didnt spend a lot of thought into.
TLDR: Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.
Actually its my thought the reason I haven't been using it on 1.6 yet, and why I'm asking. Iv been ocing my pcs since the late 90s
Now the reason I'm asking here is because the cortex a9 was designed for up to 2gHz operation, but this phones design may or may not provide adequate cooling, that's why I'm asking if other people have any negative experiences with this.
Were not actually over reving the chip its more of a environment issue with cooling/ventilation.
sent from I9100 using Omega
Visentinel said:
Actually its my thought the reason I haven't been using it on 1.6 yet, and why I'm asking. Iv been ocing my pcs since the late 90s
Now the reason I'm asking here is because the cortex a9 was designed for up to 2gHz operation, but this phones design may or may not provide adequate cooling, that's why I'm asking if other people have any negative experiences with this.
Were not actually over reving the chip its more of a environment issue with cooling/ventilation.
sent from I9100 using Omega
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do have to have in mind that PCs are much safer to OC, so we shouldn't really compare brtween them.
Regarding the Phone OC, I haven't OC'd mine and probably never will because I have all the horsepower I need, but I think the "safest" OC is between 1.3 and 1.4GHz, since that's a range that all CPUs are designed to overtake (max 200MHz range ).
mine's been oc'ed, uv'ed pretty much within the week I bought the phone in june.
I've got it set to clock between 500-1600Mhz on demand and I've not had a problem yet. Mind you, not many tasks you do on the phone will actually require 1600Mhz and my phone's CPU clocks mostly between 500-800Mhz.
Playing some games or doing quick video conversion will push to 1600Mhz but I rarely play games on my phone and video conversion is short process - burst of 90 seconds to 120 seconds at most. So I think you should be alright so long as you don't leave your phone CPU at 1600Mhz at all times.
Like you said, it is the cooling and ventilation system on the phone, which you can't modify.. Unlike PCs, where you can install bigger fans or water cooling systems. So if the phone isn't constantly cooking itself inside, should be alright.
You should already know that OCing anything is dangerous since you overclock PCs,so I'll skip that part.
Well,if it's dangerous for the phone...It depends.Yes,the processor will die sooner.Yes,you risk frying your device.No,you don't have to push it to the limit(don't push it more that 1450μV,that's the general advice for 45nm chips).However,my thoughts are:
-I won't still have the device when it's time for its CPU to get fried,so I don't actually care.
-Something else,probably the Amoled screen,will make the phone useless by breaking sooner than the CPU will.
-This winter here is really cold(for our standards anyway),so heating has been taken care of.During hotter weather,I kept multiple temperature profiles in SetCPU,so that frequencies get lower as temperatures get higher.
In the end,what matters most to me is to have the experience I want.And with OCing my phone I get it.I'm happy with it,that's all I wanted.So,it's personal preference.Some feel they don't need it,others feel they do.Decide for yourself,that's the best advice.
PS:In case you are using Siyah kernel or CF-Root with Tegrak overclock,try lowering your clock by small steps(8Mhz is the smallest step) for a sane voltage,say 1400μV.Sometimes small increments make big differences.
Thanks for the advice guys. Appreciated.
sent from I9100 using Omega
Don´t oc sgs2.
I got my mobo fried without oc.
Service center replaced everything else but housing and screen.
I used it 2-3 hours in a row, installed programs and put it in charger.
In the morning, it was completely dead.
Overheated because of the use and charging.
So think about twice before using oc 24/7.
Buffalee said:
Don´t oc sgs2.
I got my mobo fried without oc.
Service center replaced everything else but housing and screen.
I used it 2-3 hours in a row, installed programs and put it in charger.
In the morning, it was completely dead.
Overheated because of the use and charging.
So think about twice before using oc 24/7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how can you tell, that its dead because of the use and charging, if you didn't even OC'ed?
Buffalee said:
Don´t oc sgs2.
I got my mobo fried without oc.
Service center replaced everything else but housing and screen.
I used it 2-3 hours in a row, installed programs and put it in charger.
In the morning, it was completely dead.
Overheated because of the use and charging.
So think about twice before using oc 24/7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bet you didn't know there are faulty products out there that show their faults during intensive usage,eh?Mine's running at 1.6GHz(give or take a few MHz ) for months.I've played games while charging countless times.And my phone is still here,intact,so that I can write this here.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Of course my sgs mobo could have been faulty.
When the mobo fried it was hot, i mean hot.
I didn´t look temperatures.
It didn´t wake up even using jig.
I sended it to service.
If they had succesfully woke it up, they wouldn´t fix it on warranty (rooted).
Normally oc would be fine because it´s using powersave and underclock it.
But if you play like 2 hours on 1,6Ghz it can get too hot (over 60c on cpu).
I can´t recommend that kind of temperature.
And nobody here knows what kind of vrm´s phone has.
Also cooling plates are not designed for massive oc/voltage.
Of course temperature depends on voltage more than the clock speeds.
It´s up to user if he want to use it that kind of voltages/speeds.
I would´t use it 1600Mhz/24/7.
Generally i know what i´m talking about (using water on pc...)
Just look for temperatures and don´t give too much voltage (as low as possible).
Of course you don´t know safe voltage limits, but try and look what other have been using.
Don´t oc much if you don´t know what are you doing.
@tolis626 Hi, I have oc'd to 1.4ghz for the last few weeks, and I have under volted it to 12.75mV, the same as you, have you had any problems at that voltage? Also, is your 1200mhz voltage stable as it seems very low, to say that it was, at stock, 13mV. Furthermore, have you ever tried to under volt 1600mhz please?
Buffalee said:
Of course my sgs mobo could have been faulty.
When the mobo fried it was hot, i mean hot.
I didn´t look temperatures.
It didn´t wake up even using jig.
I sended it to service.
If they had succesfully woke it up, they wouldn´t fix it on warranty (rooted).
Normally oc would be fine because it´s using powersave and underclock it.
But if you play like 2 hours on 1,6Ghz it can get too hot (over 60c on cpu).
I can´t recommend that kind of temperature.
And nobody here knows what kind of vrm´s phone has.
Also cooling plates are not designed for massive oc/voltage.
Of course temperature depends on voltage more than the clock speeds.
It´s up to user if he want to use it that kind of voltages/speeds.
I would´t use it 1600Mhz/24/7.
Generally i know what i´m talking about (using water on pc...)
Just look for temperatures and don´t give too much voltage (as low as possible).
Of course you don´t know safe voltage limits, but try and look what other have been using.
Don´t oc much if you don´t know what are you doing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what I'm doing.I know the risks,that's why I don't encourage anyone to overclock as much as I do.I carefully monitor temperatures and voltages over long time periods.Rest assured,I won't come back here crying.
danielsf said:
@tolis626 Hi, I have oc'd to 1.4ghz for the last few weeks, and I have under volted it to 12.75mV, the same as you, have you had any problems at that voltage? Also, is your 1200mhz voltage stable as it seems very low, to say that it was, at stock, 13mV. Furthermore, have you ever tried to under volt 1600mhz please?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well,since 1400MHz and 1600MHz aren't stock clocks,you don't actually undervolt them.You rather choose a voltage for them as there isn't a standard one.
My phone is stable with the voltages in my sig(I've only changed 200Mhz and 500MHz voltages a little but too bored to update my sig ) for months,so yeah,I'd say I don't have any problems.This doesn't mean that no one will.Your phone might need 1325μV or 1225μV for 1400MHz.Every phone's CPU is unique in its own way.
@tolis626 Thanks very much, one more stupid question please, will under volting from stock Samsung voltages, even if it's stable, decrease performance compared to stock voltages on an average exynos processor please, aslo will undervolting from original kernel clock speed increase the processors life span? I have researching this and came up with nothing.
Will it break your phone? Not directly. It will shorten the lifetime.
Besides that the heat can indirectly kill your device.
I'm just curious:
Why overclocking the device? I have mine underclocked to 1 GHz max. It still has enough power to handle everything.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
I have just been messing around. I can get 1.6ghz perfectly stable at 1350mv, I tried 1325mv and it hung up after about 2 min of use. I can also get my 1.4ghz down to 1225mv's and 1.2ghz to 1.200 it is rock stable and I haven't tried lower voltages on 1.4 & 1.2.
I am going to keep [email protected] & 1.4 @ 1250mv & [email protected]
danielsf said:
@tolis626 Thanks very much, one more stupid question please, will under volting from stock Samsung voltages, even if it's stable, decrease performance compared to stock voltages on an average exynos processor please, aslo will undervolting from original kernel clock speed increase the processors life span? I have researching this and came up with nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No,undervolting will in fact prolong your processor's lifetime,albeit negligibly,because with less voltage less heat is generated.It's plain physics.
Overclocking on the other hand will reduce your CPU's lifetime.The damage(mostly electromigration) is dependent on the CPU and how much you overclock.Quite frankly again,you won't still have the phone when enough damage is done for it to break.If the slightly lower battery life doesn't bother you that much,I say go for it.
danielsf said:
I have just been messing around. I can get 1.6ghz perfectly stable at 1350mv, I tried 1325mv and it hung up after about 2 min of use. I can also get my 1.4ghz down to 1225mv's and 1.2ghz to 1.200 it is rock stable and I haven't tried lower voltages on 1.4 & 1.2.
I am going to keep [email protected] & 1.4 @ 1250mv & [email protected]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude,that's some nice UV!Mine instantly crashes when I set it to 1375μV at 1600MHz.You're lucky.
Oh and,most probably your phone can handle 1200MHz at 1150μV.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
tolis626 said:
No,undervolting will in fact prolong your processor's lifetime,albeit negligibly,because with less voltage less heat is generated.It's plain physics.
Overclocking on the other hand will reduce your CPU's lifetime.The damage(mostly electromigration) is dependent on the CPU and how much you overclock.Quite frankly again,you won't still have the phone when enough damage is done for it to break.If the slightly lower battery life doesn't bother you that much,I say go for it.
Dude,that's some nice UV!Mine instantly crashes when I set it to 1375μV at 1600MHz.You're lucky.
Oh and,most probably your phone can handle 1200MHz at 1150μV.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much for all your help I tried undervolting 1200mhz more, I got to 1075mv and it was rock stable, I don't think I am going to try anything lower than that. Just for info, I'm on SiyahKernel v2.6.2 Thanks again
CPUs care a lot about voltage and don't give a rip about MHz except for the minor heat increase. The chip in my phone is a bad clocker though. If I could get 1400mhz to work at close to the stock 1200mhz voltage I would do it in a heartbeat. Sadly mine requires a healthy bump so I abstain. At least until I can afford to replace it
Number one rule of overclocking, don't push the voltage if you can't afford to replace it
I discussed the topic of overclocking processors with a friend of mine who design cellphone CPUs. He told me that over the lifetime of a CPU, the insulating oxide layers break down. This process is considerably faster at 40% extra power and frequency. So don't expect it to last as long as a normally clocked CPU. So the question is how long it would normally last.
I have my SGP5 overclocked to 1.5ghz at the moment via Tegrak. Everything is running smoothly but the spot on the back where the CPU is gets warm to the touch. Not hot or anything, but obviously warm.
Before I had it overclocked to 1.45ghz and it stayed a lot cooler, but to get to 1.5 I had to bump the core voltage to 1.35v. I also have the up-threshold set to 35% so it spends a good amount of time at max speed.
Since these things don't have CPU temp monitoring, how do you tell when it's too hot? My battery temp never goes much over 80*F, so that doesn't seem like a good indicator of anything.
Sitting here playing music with Mufin my IR temp gun reads a max of 100*F on the back of the case over the CPU. Battery temp is reading 77*. Is that too warm? How much of a temp differential can there be between the outside of the case and the CPU itself?
I'm no noob to overclocking PCs, but this is my first Android device so I don't really know it's limits as clearly.
Any help would be mucho appreciated!
DISCLAIMER - anything within this thread has the potential to do permanent damage.. I haven't had any issues yet but will not be held responsible for any damage!
So I just pulled the back cover off it. Running the same program for 10-15mins the CPU never exceeded 82.5*F which is well within safe limits imo.
I guess that goes to show how poor the cooling is in one of these things with the back cover on. I'm going to keep running 1.5ghz and report any issues. The difference in smoothness between 1.4 and 1.5ghz is pretty dramatic.. web browsing is very very smooth now. I probably won't be going any higher than 1.5, but for now it seems safe.
Tegrak Ultimate Profile -
Level0
1500mhz
1.350mV core
1.155mV internal
Level 2-4 untouched
Level 5 (undervolted for better battery life)
100mhz
850mV core
900mV internal
Using ondemand governor
35% up-threshold
exodus454 said:
So I just pulled the back cover off it. Running the same program for 10-15mins the CPU never exceeded 82.5*F which is well within safe limits imo.
I guess that goes to show how poor the cooling is in one of these things with the back cover on. I'm going to keep running 1.5ghz and report any issues. The difference in smoothness between 1.4 and 1.5ghz is pretty dramatic.. web browsing is very very smooth now. I probably won't be going any higher than 1.5, but for now it seems safe.
Tegrak Ultimate Profile -
Level0
1500mhz
1.350mV core
1.155mV internal
Level 2-4 untouched
Level 5 (undervolted for better battery life)
100mhz
850mV core
900mV internal
Using ondemand governor
35% up-threshold
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just tried your profile, and I have to say it works fantastic! The web browsing really is super fast.
Is there any major danger at this clock speed with On-Demand on? I mean, it'll only use 1.5GHz if it needs it right?
ZaIINN said:
Just tried your profile, and I have to say it works fantastic! The web browsing really is super fast.
Is there any major danger at this clock speed with On-Demand on? I mean, it'll only use 1.5GHz if it needs it right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ondemand from my understanding, scales processor speed using the values in the up/down (I believe System Tuner refers to down as "powersave bias") threshold. From my experience it's the best governor to use as far as customizing it easily and getting it to respond well.
Whatever you set the up-threshold to, when CPU load exceeds that value it bumps the speed up to the next "level" and ending in full speed. Then when CPU load falls below the down-threshold, it scales it back down to the next lowest level, so on and so-forth. You can also adjust the sampling rate too - lower frequency means it checks the CPU load more frequently and essentially makes the governor more responsive.
When I set mine to 35%, almost any program aside from stuff sitting almost completely idle will trip the CPU to hit 1.5ghz. This makes everything real responsive and may use more battery.. but I prefer having a more responsive device. You can also adjust the up-threshold to a higher number to try to lower temps and extend battery life. You can really play around with it to suit your needs, there's not really anything to screw up there.
There shouldn't be any danger using it with the ondemand.. but since I haven't tested this for more than a few days right now just keep an eye on temps (especially while playing games) and watch out for any "stuttering" out of the blue. Mine gets warm but nothing excessive. You'll be able to feel it on the back between the speakers.
I have to say though, even running such a high clock speed I'm not really seeing any negative effect on battery life so far.
Lemme know how yours goes!
How can it not have any risks? When the heat is too much somethig will explode wouldn't it?
No just kidding, but seriously. There is a risk of overheating a hardware and 'destroying' it, there should be!
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA
Well of course there's always some risk in overclocking! Especially when you don't know what you're doing.
As far as using one governor or another though.. when it comes down to it there shouldn't be a huge difference.
Sent from my YP-G70 using Tapatalk
I use SetCPU for root, but i don't see an option for more than 1200 mhz. How can I get it to 1500?
Rapydax said:
I use SetCPU for root, but i don't see an option for more than 1200 mhz. How can I get it to 1500?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tegrak Overclock Ultimate
Sent from my YP-G70 using Tapatalk
exodus454 said:
Tegrak Overclock Ultimate
Sent from my YP-G70 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you bought it?
i really want tegrak OC can you send me it in pm?
kfirbep said:
you bought it?
i really want tegrak OC can you send me it in pm?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude.
READ THE RULES!
XDA does not allow pirating apps or software to be discussed on the forums.
6. Do not post warez.
If a piece of software requires you to pay to use it, either pay or find your cracks and serials somewhere else. We do not accept warez nor do we permit any member to promote or describe ways in which Warez, cracks, serial codes or other means of avoiding payment, can be obtained.
9. Don't get us in trouble.
Don't post copyrighted materials or do other things that will obviously lead to legal trouble. If you wouldn't do it on your own homepage, you probably don't want to do it here either. This does not mean we agree with everything the software piracy lobby try to impose on us, it simply means you cannot break any laws here, since we'll end up dealing with legal hassle caused by you. Please use common sense: respect the forum, its users, and those that write great code.
If you want an app, why don't you just support the developer and buy it??
We have smashed into the performance ceiling. Without active cooling or massive increases in efficiency through improved architecture, there is no way smartphones (or tablets) can become more powerful.
I can't use 75% of this phone's potential performance while playing San Andreas. With a custom kernel and thermal throttling disabled, the phone shoots up to 90c in minutes and then reboots; that is with 'On Demand' and max frequency at 1.73 ghz.
Coming from a gnex (max stock freq. could reach 80c), absolute performance has become meaningless. Maybe it has been for a while.
This is absolutely true. We need fans or cooling systems if we shall be able to take full advantage of the massive powers in our phones. For now, I think the only way is to play our favorite games in a freezer.
Sent from my LG-D802 using xda app-developers app
otherwise lg would melt ...
or, you can root your phone and disable thermal throttle. then you can use it at full performance up until you reach the thermal shutdown temp without worrying your cpu being thermally throttled
and i had a gnex as well, it could reach 110C. i always turned off thermal throttle, and always turn off thermal throttle on my nexus 5. you dont reach thermal shutdown without actively trying too, and the cpu doesn't get throttled.
crazysoccerman said:
We have smashed into the performance ceiling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While that statement was not even close to being true when you posted it, tomorrow it'll be less true, etc etc.
If you build the exact same chip with a smaller die process, the smaller die process chip will be more efficient (cooler) and faster. Then there are of course other improvements that are continuously being made, more cores to spread the load, faster ram to reduce bottlenecks, etc, etc, again, all while getting faster and cooler because of improved production methods.
So no, phones will get more powerful, more ram, better screens etc.. Maybe someday we'll have another battery breakthrough, but right now with the massive push on efficiency we're getting some runtime back on batteries, etc.
khaytsus said:
While that statement was not even close to being true when you posted it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually it is true. The performance on the G2 is limited by heat. You can't run the phone under load at or near its max specified frequency for any reasonable period of time. Try it yourself. To deny that is to deny facts.
Also, a smaller die reduces the surface area for the dissipation of heat.
crazysoccerman said:
Actually it is true. The performance on the G2 is limited by heat. You can't run the phone under load at or near its max specified frequency for any reasonable period of time. Try it yourself. To deny that is to deny facts.
Also, a smaller die reduces the surface area for the dissipation of heat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the OP, it states "smartphones". Oh wait, you are the OP
vPro97 said:
This is absolutely true. We need fans or cooling systems if we shall be able to take full advantage of the massive powers in our phones. For now, I think the only way is to play our favorite games in a freezer.
Sent from my LG-D802 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol fans aren't a good solution
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
Time ago a saw a cooling case. If i find the site again, i will post it.
Imagine the HTC One, but with a heat pipe transferring heat from the SOC to the aluminum case... That would provide more cooling, but I'm not sure of the size penalty of the heat pipe.
Also, more efficient chips CAN provide more power and generate less heat. A perfect example is Intel's pentium4 "netburst" architecture vs the newer and considerably more efficient "core duo" chips.
Take care
Gary
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
are there any phones out there that don't heat up while performing great in all demanding titles?
Sent from my LG-D801 using xda app-developers app
well yeah smartphones aren't designed to run at 100% of the cpu/gpu speed for long periods of time. If they were, they would have to be a lot bigger and/or have active cooling. I guess I never really noticed the "wall" because all the mobile games I play do not push the phone to the limit. When you are comparing it to the past though, remember the newest CPUs are significantly faster clock for clock. 1.5ghz is not the same for an A9 vs Krait 400.
So what iz the solution ? Do we have any modification or init.d script to disable that cooling system ?
Solution Is a thermal pad on CPU
Mantra96 said:
Solution Is a thermal pad on CPU
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:V ...
---------- Post added at 10:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 AM ----------
Vipxpert said:
:V ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's time to void warranty ! :V