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I'm not terribly optimistic this will go anywhere, but I signed it because I consider software patents to be the scourge of the software industry. They are especially deadly for start-ups and small companies working on innovative new products - exactly the people patents are supposed to protect.
http://www.petitiononline.com/pasp01/petition.html
the patent system in general needs a massive over haul
Don't know why software patents are bad. All you have to do is not do what the claims specifically state and you're clear.
Sent from my Shooter.
The problem is that the people approving the patents aren't technical at all, and they're approving them despite obvious prior art.
Disent apple have the patent of "LCD that produces light"? That almost every electronic with a screen.
phatmanxxl said:
Disent apple have the patent of "LCD that produces light"? That almost every electronic with a screen.
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No not exactly, they have a patent on a screen you can touch to input information. So They own and "invented" the touchscreen now according to the judge. All the banks, supermarkets, UPS, FedEx, Tablet makers, Smartphones, etc etc etc etc better beware, using those touchscreens is an illegal act because the company that made them has not paid for a license to use them.
And before apple came out with anything touchscreen I had touchscreen PDAs. Before that I was touching all sorts of things and getting a response. I'd say a copyright should be fine for software, but not a patent on actions. When I used to write programs I could do most action/response routines 4 or 5 ways depending on the programming language used, and if that wasn't original enough I'd code it (differently) in another program language.
IMO any concept that is so obvious as touching a screen should be granted an anti-patent. In other words, it should be against the law for any one person/company to claim the right to it.
Neo3D said:
I'm not terribly optimistic this will go anywhere, but I signed it because I consider software patents to be the scourge of the software industry. They are especially deadly for start-ups and small companies working on innovative new products - exactly the people patents are supposed to protect.
http://www.petitiononline.com/pasp01/petition.html
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Do you really think that removing software patents would help small businesses???????!!!!!!!
People who disapprove of software patents don't understand that if software patents were not available to the small start ups, the established companies would simply steal whatever new process the start up came up with and put the start up out of business.
No start up has a prayer of getting funding without some protection in the form of patents.
I should know, I am a patent attorney and I do a lot of work with small inventors.
Believe me, Microsoft, Apple, Sun, etc have no problem taking a great idea developed by a outsider and adding it to their own products.
There is no protection in copyrights for the small inventor. As long as the big company recodes the innovation when adding it to their own software, there is no copyright infringement.
Now I know you're going to flame me and tell me that I have a vested interest in patents as a patent attorney but I am used to it.
Think about it this way. I don't like that some people publicly say certain blatantly untrue and nearly slanderous things. Still, I wouldn't want to take away the freedom of speech to stop them. They would probably continue to say those things and I would no longer have my own freedom of speech.
Similarly, the giants have lots of patents that protect their market niche and it does make it harder for startups to carve out their own niche. The problem with getting rid of patents is that there would no longer be any way for the small business to carve out its own niche. The giants would no longer use patents to war amongst themselves but they would not longer have to worry about a start up putting out a new OS with great features that are somehow patented by the startup and which the giants could not simply steal or copy into their own product.
There is also no justification for saying that software patents should all be invalidated simply because the United States Patent Office has granted some patents that prior art should have precluded.
Fix the Patent and Trademark Office's examination quality, don't punish the inventor.
4dthinker said:
And before apple came out with anything touchscreen I had touchscreen PDAs. Before that I was touching all sorts of things and getting a response. I'd say a copyright should be fine for software, but not a patent on actions. When I used to write programs I could do most action/response routines 4 or 5 ways depending on the programming language used, and if that wasn't original enough I'd code it (differently) in another program language.
IMO any concept that is so obvious as touching a screen should be granted an anti-patent. In other words, it should be against the law for any one person/company to claim the right to it.
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First, things that are obvious now were not always obvious before they were thought up.
Second, there is such a thing as a quasi anti-patent but no one uses it. Statutory Invention Registration.
Basically, if you come up with something or feel that it is obvious, you can describe it and file it with the Patent Office.
It serves are prior art as of the day it is filed with the PTO and if you disclosed the touchscreen (for example), the examiner's will use that to reject patent applications directed to the touchscreen you disclosed and filed after the day you filed your SIR.
That said, I have yet to have a SIR cited against a patent application. I have never heard of a SIR being filed for that matter.
Anyhow, all I want to point out is that there are two sides to the patent right.
Yes, big companies have many patents to things that they have developed over the years that protect them from start ups developing the same things.
Nothing but patents stop big companies from taking any good idea that comes out and adding it to their own products.
EniGmA1987 said:
No not exactly, they have a patent on a screen you can touch to input information. So They own and "invented" the touchscreen now according to the judge. All the banks, supermarkets, UPS, FedEx, Tablet makers, Smartphones, etc etc etc etc better beware, using those touchscreens is an illegal act because the company that made them has not paid for a license to use them.
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I would like to see this all encompassing touchscreen patent that Apple supposedly has.
I know that it doesn't exist because touchscreens are more than 20 years old. Patents are not forever. They expire.
Patents are also rarely broad enough that you cannot design around them. Show it to me and I will explain ten ways to avoid infringing the patent.
That said, Apple does innovate quite a bit. On the other hand, so does every other major smartphone company. Its a very competitive industry.
Alright here's the deal. I have an app idea for a game that I plan on creating that is very simple, and I have a good feeling it will take off. My worries is that developing it will almost be pointless because of the lax android market policy. I am a new programmer, so my worry is I will make the app pretty decent, and some more experienced programmer will be able to duplicate it and make it better. This just doesn't seem right. I know this happens all the time (Fruit Slice, for example, is a Fruit Ninja knockoff and it's free).
Android is a love it/ hate it relationship. Users love being able to download just as good of knockoffs for free, but I'm sure this is a major turn off for developers who worked hard on their original idea's, just to have it undercut by another developer who will offer a similar (or even better app) for free. Part of me wishes I could just develop it for iOS, but I don't have a Mac or iPhone, and don't ever plan on getting one.
My question is, is there anyway to stop it? Like a patent, or something similar? This is my major hesitation to developing for android. I know I'm not going to be the best programmer out there, but it's the idea that make the apps, and that's where I feel like (I'm sure a lot of other people do too) I could do some contributing. Let me know how you guys feel about this
Anybody? 10Char
welcome to programming for any platform. There are (free) alternatives to almost every single program (android-based, windows-based, etc...)
I think you're in a very bad place to ask about that question. Programmers are usually not at all fond of patents since they tend to be overly broad, hard to detect and generally of low quality. (In case you haven't noticed that's also my opinion)
But yes, if that's what you want to do, a patent would be the way to go. Copyright protects your code, but not your idea.
Make it free. Put ads on it. If it takes off make an iOS one
Sent from my MOTWX435KT using XDA App
As far as I can remember, from my Intellectual Property Law class, software (i.e. apps) cannot be the subject of a patent. But of course, this changes from country to country.
Here are some links you might want to read up on:
http://www.wipo.int/patentscope/en/patents_faq.html#software
http://www.freibrun.com/articles/articl2.htm
Computer-based inventions... yeah, they're not supposed to be patentable: Not in the US and even less in the EU. The key point is how computer-based inventions is defined. The standard way around it is simply to patent "a machine doing XY" instead of "XY"
Basically, the patent clerks don't check for anything but formalities. I used to help out on the peertopatent platform, but it just became ridicolous because the clerks would let everything through no matter what prior art or explanations of obviousness we provided.
Patenting is the worst thing you can do. Don't you read all the patent BS going around lately? Also, spending money on a patent won't be enough, you'll also need to spent money enforcing it, and you won't make any friends by being a litigator.
All you can do is provide the best product you can come up with and hope for the best. If someone makes something similar but better, well, you'll just have to work harder. Or drop the whole thing.
But as others have said, you'll have this problem on *all* platforms. A practical example, when Nero released their burning app for Linux, my thought was "This is kinda cool, but why would I pay for Nero, when there's K3B and other apps that to the job, but are open source and free?"
The trick is to provide something others don't have. In the case of NeroLinux it's familiarity for ex-Windows folks or dual-booters. In your case it could be more features, better graphics, easier to navigate interface, regularly provided additional content... something in that direction.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/20/apple-awarded-a-patent-for-in-call-app-switching-starts-draftin/
-_- you fcking kidding me -_-
Whats next a patent on buttons... On the battery icon...
Apple = SUPER troll
But it's already being done. And they weren't even able to multitask at all for a while after Android was.
This is Jobs' obsession. He said he would go "thermonuclear" to ruin Android.
They really need to overhaul the patent office and get some people in there who have a clue about technology.
I want to know who are the idiots sitting behind a desk mindlessly stamping "Approved" on these patents. Do they not look into these claims and see if its even particle to give one company ownership on a function that has become common practice.
Looks like it's multitasking in general.. Which apple phones are incapable of derp?
Copyright WinMo?
But reading into it (not too far...) it seems mostly about using specific buttons or such to bring up an app list during a call... with android you just hit the home button, which is not part of the GUI of the phone "app"
anywho, read into the actual patent application and it doesn't specifically apply due to some wording and regarding the "menu button" they mention over and over again.
Apple needs to be destroyed.
brando56894 said:
Apple needs to be destroyed.
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Agreed!!
Sent from my HTC Rezound!
Lulz Apple invented UNIX?? Besides isn't it easier for them now with an Android styled Notifications system?? What about what they borrowed from Blackberry and WP7? Messaging system and system form links... Copied.
How it works, give money to Obama, Democrats. They phone a friend when you need something past. or you could be friendly in the sauna at Bohemian Grove to an elite Heard Steve and Zuckerman like it there.. Obama, Bush, Cheney are awaiting for you, if you're young and cute.. lulz
Stock JW1 Odex - latest TalonDEV & ThunderBolt!
How can the concept of multtasking be patentable?
That makes no sense. Does iOS really multitask anyway?
So Apple wants every other OS to pay them royalties to multitask?
This is going to come back to haunt them. Corporate greed and naivete on designs that are either common domain or have prior art are things that won't sit well with the hipster/occupy/disenfranchised generation of iSheep.
+1 on the dimwitted patent clerks stamping these patents. Apple patents hyperlinking, essentially, in the patent that recognizes (oh boy!) a telephone number and turns it into a hyperlink that brings you directly to the dialer. It looks like hTC will find a different way to recognize text as a phone number and circumvent this patent, so who wins? Lawyers get paid. hTC has to pay software engineers to rewrite code. Functionality remains the same for the customers. The cost gets passed on to... who? Owners of both Apple and hTC phones. We all lose.
Apple is loosing ground to Android and windows phone... They know it only a matter off time before their last years news so their trying to stay relevant and patent anything and everything to have some form off profit once iDevice sales go down.
Apple got a head start since they released a phone that called the attention of the masses, but that fad is dieing. Only thing the iphone has is ease of use and windows phone hit that head on, Android still working on that.
Swyped from my Rezound 4G
Soooo how long till someone from this generation gets into the patent office. I feel that would be a major hit to apple. As the rules would change and ambiguous patents that cover broad portions of tech will no longer be valid. What a good day that will be.
sent from my HTC Vigor.
I don't know if anyone has seen the new post made on portal but I intend to send this to all the Apple Exec's and relevant people I can find.
We should all send this to the same people to let them know what we think.
Dear Apple,
Your ENTIRE organization lacks morals and free market competition basics, and as such, you are not worthy of having the glory that you now posses. While you may have revolutionized the world as we know it with very well crafted marketing campaigns and some good ideas, you are far from being a true innovator in the field of… anything. Just think for one second about the LEAPS in technology that you would have accomplished, should you have invested in R&D a quarter of the money you spend into advertising and marketing. Then, you would have something worth portraying as a technological wonder, something that would likely be untouchable by others. Something truly genuine that you can call your own, and at the end of the day you could look at with pride. What you have right now is a bunch of reinvented wheels, most of which don’t do much more than other wheels out there.
Redefining concepts and ideas is not what makes a company great; coming up with new concepts is. HTC and other major OEMS have often been in the vanguard by innovating with their products, adding new features, rethinking, and just putting concepts out there to imagine their possibilities. Your last innovations and only major contributions to the world of mobile technology were the inclusion of capacitive multi-touch gestures and an accelerometer in mobile devices, and these were with the original iPhone back in 2007. For that and only that, I give you credit. All the newer models of virtually every product you sell have been remakes of previous technology—perhaps a little thinner and a little faster, but all in all, minor changes.
It is because of companies like yours that technology is not further today than where it currently is. You are so adamant in protecting something that you didn’t even invent that you are holding back future innovation. The spirit and basic concepts of engineering are completely missing from your business models. Courtesy of the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology:
Engineering is the profession in which a knowledge of the mathematical and natural sciences gained by experience, study, and practice is applied with judgement to develop ways to utilize economically, the materials and forces of nature for the benefit of mankind.
Notice the importance of the concept that you are no longer following. Engineering practices are used for the betterment of mankind. What have you done for this purpose? Rebrand an existing technology (MP3 players) and sell them for twice the price? Trying to cripple your competitors by claiming that you invented something that was previously invented, when you simply adapted the technology and closed off any other use of this by others? This can be compared to using a Linux kernel (if it weren’t under GPL license), patenting it, and closing it off so that no one else can use it.
Apple, you are simply a disgrace to the world of technology and to engineering in general. I feel ashamed of being called an engineer in a world where your company roams around freely without even following the most basic of the field’s concepts—a world where the law and justice are blind to the fact that your actions are hindering humanity’s advancement. While I understand that there is nothing wrong with making money, there is something very wrong with replacing engineering with greed.
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Does anyone know some definite e-mail addresses to Apple execs and relevant people?
E-mail Addresses found so far:
Tim Cook [email protected]
How about sending it to one infinite loop,Cupertino CA
At least spam filters won't get it...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
I went to their site earlier today and when on chat to let them know my anger. Click thru their Google ad first
Nice! Even though i dont have any email addresses, i think this should be posted to any and every response to or from a crapple fan or employee.
Sent from my Transformer
sent
This is silly.
I mean, heck. If I were company A who invented idea X and company B came along with idea X, I would not be so different from Apple.
And, Apple employees are not the ones hording our EVOs. Its the government.
What we need is a "Free EVO" campaign
typhoonikan said:
And, Apple employees are not the ones hording our EVOs. Its the government.
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Ah, didn't realize the Customs office is holding HTC products for ****s and giggles.
Doesn't matter. Voices need to be heard.
I sent one too!
Steve Jobs would sometimes personally answer emails, but I doubt Tim Cook would. Honestly at this point it's out of Apple's hands as it's US Customs who are enforcing it and controlling the process of holding the phones so a mass email to them would be more effective.
typhoonikan said:
This is silly.
I mean, heck. If I were company A who invented idea X and company B came along with idea X, I would not be so different from Apple.
And, Apple employees are not the ones hording our EVOs. Its the government.
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Therein lies the biggest issue, Apple didn't invent a lot of the stuff they have patents for. They are just the first ones to try and patent something so ridiculous.
coolblue830 said:
Steve Jobs would sometimes personally answer emails, but I doubt Tim Cook would. Honestly at this point it's out of Apple's hands as it's US Customs who are enforcing it and controlling the process of holding the phones so a mass email to them would be more effective.
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Tell my why the HTC One on T-Moblie is being held? You know, the network without the iphoney...
Pure thuggery by apple
Sent from my Sprint Galaxy Nexus CDMA using Tapatalk 2
shook187 said:
What we need is a "Free EVO" campaign
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As in "free" beer, or "free" willy?
Sent.
All sprint and other cellular phone salesman should advise customers against buying the iPhone. Recommend a Nexus or EVO LTE instead.
Peace All,
Where is ANONYMOUS when we need them? They would be the best at doing this--hey they might even be able to shut down some of Apple's infrastructure
phatmanxxl said:
All sprint and other cellular phone salesman should advise customers against buying the iPhone. Recommend a Nexus or EVO LTE instead.
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I sell phones and already do this! B-)
Apple doesn't care what non-customers think of them.
Apple's action is anti-consumer, it's time to awaken the government's consumer protection arms to take action against Apple. Write to your Attorney Generals, write to the Federal Trade Commission. Make Apple listen.
The U.S. International Trade Commission today ordered an import ban on Motorola Mobility Android products, agreeing with Microsoft that the devices infringe a Microsoft patent on 'generating meeting requests' from a mobile device. The import ban stems from a December ruling that the Motorola Atrix, Droid, and Xoom (among 18 total devices) infringed the patent, which Microsoft says is related to Exchange ActiveSync technology.
Today, the ITC said in a 'final determination of violation' (PDF) that 'the appropriate form of relief in this investigation is a limited exclusion order prohibiting the unlicensed entry for consumption of mobile devices, associated software and components thereof covered by ... United States Patent No. 6,370,566 and that are manufactured abroad by or on behalf of, or imported by or on behalf of, Motorola.' Motorola (which is being acquired by Google) was the last major Android device maker not to pay off Microsoft in a patent licensing deal. Microsoft has already responded to the decision, saying it hopes Motorola will now reconsider."
Ha
Sent from my Photon 4G via Tapatalk 2
Roflmao. It's too bad Microsoft doesn't have a patent on locked bootloaders. :-D
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2 under CM9.
They'll pay.
Or, hey, how about this? Since this is a corporate thing that somebody like me will never use, why not only put it on a few business-class phones, and push the cost onto the consumer? Or, take it out of the phone, and sell it as an app? That way, those who want it can pay Motorola for the software and Microsoft for being a patent troll.
Also interesting to note that Microsoft now, as well as Apple, has sent a message to Android users that they are unable to openly compete (since they aren't giving away the software, they can't sell the same hardware as cheaply). That tells me that WP7 (as well as iOS) isn't a sustainable platform as long as Android is around. And I wouldn't bet against Google. I'd think it less wise to bet against Apple and Microsoft, but Google's got them in a panic.
bitbang3r said:
Roflmao. It's too bad Microsoft doesn't have a patent on locked bootloaders. :-D
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2 under CM9.
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Thanks for the laugh haha.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA
Kind of reminds me of the days when RedHat 5.1 was makin it big. At that time MS had like 93% of the OS market. I think they tried something similar against Linux. I remember by the time it was all over with Linux had like 6 or 7% of the OS market.
Some said 7%, what l's the big deal? Think about it. All those millions of PC's that were lost to Linux. It's about money and control and Gates was losing some. Same thing with Android phones. I think the "infringement" on activesync is bull. It's just another attempt by a greedy company not wanting to loose money.
My MoPho's in the kitchen sink!!
Seem Apple and Microsoft have team up to try and crush Android
Sent from my MB855 using XDA
for what it is worth, googles purchase of Motorola was approved by chineese regulators with the requirement that Android stay open for at least 5yrs. That was the last remaining hurdle for purchase.
Hopefully google will improve motorola as well as the photon.
FernBch said:
It's about money and control and Gates was losing some. Same
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Well, can you tell me someone that has spent more money for the society than Gates (Roughly half of his fortune is in his foundation) and is still quite modest and down-to-earth?
(Just sayin that it's not fair to bash Gates)
Anyway, I hate those legal battles, too. I'd say stop crying and start developing innovative stuff to be competitive!!
Technology can't advance if ****ty companies like MS and Appple continue to claim every little thingy as theirs.
Android on the other hand continues to grow in popularity, because of its openness.
And it's getting better every day because users&devs can improve every aspect of it.
If you have iOS though, you're left at the mercy of apple. Nothing you can do 'bout that
I'd choose open source over proprietary bs any time
Dear Microsoft,
Please make Motorola release official kernel sources, drivers and other BS stuff.
And not to forget make them unlock the bootloders.
Getting things sorted out for couple of million $$$ isn't going to be a fair deal.
Make them pay for their evil work
Your's truly
Proud WinUbuntu User
iONEx said:
Technology can't advance if ****ty companies like MS and Appple continue to claim every little thingy as theirs.
Android on the other hand continues to grow in popularity, because of its openness.
And it's getting better every day because users&devs can improve every aspect of it.
If you have iOS though, you're left at the mercy of apple. Nothing you can do 'bout that
I'd choose open source over proprietary bs any time
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Because Android is of course completely open source and there is nothing proprietary about it, right?
Newsflash, buddy. Android as XDA knows it is not Android as the rest of the world knows it. As much as you'd love to think the world of smartphones revolves around XDA and it's open to everyone and it's amazing and beautiful and so simple, people who root and reflash are the minority and always will be. Android is not growing because of it's openness. It's growing because it doesn't cost anything and anyone can slap it on a ridiculously crappy phone and call it a "smartphone" and sell it on a high margin.
Please don't be fooled for one second into thinking that the use of Android outside of high-end devices is anything more than businesses trying to efficiently make money.
This is exactly the sort of arrogance from Android users that piss me off and sometimes make me a shamed to be a fan of Android. Microsoft and Google aren't doing anything less than what Google would do, but I have no doubt you people would all bow down to Google if Google attacked Microsoft or Apple, because of course that's ok.
You can sit there for ages smack-talking Apple and Microsoft as much as you want, but the truth is simple; as awesome as Android is, it's full of patent-infringing stuff, and will continue to be for a long time. The only reason it doesn't bother you is because you're all Android fans.
Microsoft had every right to do what they did, for the longest time they were perfectly content with just taking license fees on every Android device made. Was it a bit slimy for them to do it recently instead of much earlier? Obviously, but then again, Google pushed out an operating system without full understanding what they were creating.
I'm thankful for Android, but Android is not god. Google is not perfect. They infringed and they got burned for it. This is what happens in the business world. The way IP works does not change just because you are a fan of the "victim" company.
I came into this thread hoping for mature conversation about what happened, but it seems everyone has decided they're industry experts and that Android's quality as an operating system has anything to do with its status as patent-infringing or not.
Sad.
I agree with you, except one thing.
There are many nonsense patents, all these companies got patented for some reason, I do not understand.
Maybe one day, you won't be able to plant some kind of a flower, because it's growing too fast and someone has patent, that this kind of flower cannot grow faster, because he has patent, that only his way is the right way and you will pay for it, that you know it.
Just a symbolic example. ;-)
peetr_ said:
I agree with you, except one thing.
There are many nonsense patents, all these companies got patented for some reason, I do not understand.
Maybe one day, you won't be able to plant some kind of a flower, because it's growing too fast and someone has patent, that this kind of flower cannot grow faster, because he has patent, that only his way is the right way and you will pay for it, that you know it.
Just a symbolic example. ;-)
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Monsanto?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA
Lol...
No.