I will pay whatever developer or person who can crack the bootloader on the nook tablet 400$. Proof will be posted and then I must successfully perform it on my tablet to be paid ( I will have a trusted dev make sure its legit as well). Payment will be made on paypal and I will pay the fees. This offer is open until 12/4/2011 as I have to return my NT on Monday if nothing happens.
brett014 is my yahoo messenger if anyone has questions and I am on the IRC usually.
brett014 said:
I will pay whatever developer or person who can crack the bootloader on the nook tablet 400$. Proof will be posted and then I must successfully perform it on my tablet to be paid ( I will have a trusted dev make sure its legit as well). Payment will be made on paypal and I will pay the fees. This offer is open until 12/4/2011 as I have to return my NT on Monday if nothing happens.
brett014 is my yahoo messenger if anyone has questions and I am on the IRC usually.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
December 4th is an impossible deadline dude.
Another Proposal
add 5 bucks to be given by each person who quotes this post, meaning that they accept and are willing to donate $5 to the developer or person who cracks the bootloader before december 4th
Seriously guys, we can't set a deadline on this as 1) December 4th is a bit ridiculous and 2) Money shouldn't even be involved. It makes people dev for a device for the wrong reasons. Stop making bounties, it's a waste of money and time.
Indirect said:
2) Money shouldn't even be involved. It makes people dev for a device for the wrong reasons. Stop making bounties, it's a waste of money and time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does it really matter how we come by an unlocked bootloader? If its paid for, will you not use it?
I'll add $100 to said bounty. PayPal paid.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It means the developers will always expect to be paid and that is flat out wrong. I will never dev for ONLY cash. I do it for the betterment of the device and the community. If people donate that's up to them but I dont come to work on a device specifically for money.
It shouldn't matter to you why another person develops for a device. That is a personal decision for each individual developer not the community.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The point is to give everyone some added incentive to get it done in 7 days. I am sure its impossible but maybe the extra cash will bring in some people who crack bootloaders from other devices that have theories and thing to try. No one is forcing anyone to try and break it in 7 days, but if someone does then 400$ is their reward
Here's a thought, and I am by no means a genius, but why don't you return your NT, take that $250 + your $400 and buy a better device? Thats what I would do if I had the money to blow, just an idea
I think people who don't know what they're talking about think that you can just brute-force a bootloader key. If a bootloader is locked, there's very little that you can do.
The security features of the bootloader and key it is checking for are programmed into the chip with a one-time-programmable e-fuse. The feature is specifically designed so that it can never be disabled, and therefore the only way around it is getting or figuring out B&N's private signing key
boomn said:
The security features of the bootloader and key it is checking for are programmed into the chip with a one-time-programmable e-fuse. The feature is specifically designed so that it can never be disabled, and therefore the only way around it is getting or figuring out B&N's private signing key
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. It doesn't matter how high you set the reward. The fact remains that a bootloader key is by most means impossible to figure out. Unless of course you make a mistake like Sony did with their PS encryption.
What I really meant was donations, and kind of a prize for the person who does it! and finally unlocks the bootloader.
An alternative
brett014 said:
This offer is open until 12/4/2011 as I have to return my NT on Monday if nothing happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is of course an alternate course, which I am personally seriously considering (my clock runs out on Nov 30):
Return the Nook Tablet, and buy another if/when someone achieves an "independent" boot from an SDcard. By "independent" I mean that it's able to boot anything (including a copy of B&N 1.4) solely from the SDcard (eg, the ramdisk does not reference the internal memory (except for the /rom details, like the MAC address).
I agree that cracking the signed bootloader scheme is not as easy as some seem to think (based on thirty years of working in the embedded software field myself). However, what IS easy is returning it, and moving to one of the inexpensive but quite decent tablets that are now out in the market. Eg, after buying the Nook Tablet eleven days ago, I bought an Acer A500 a week later, and couldn't be more pleased. Even though I haven't rooted the A500, it does pretty much everything I need as stock (running the Samba app, which requires root, is the exception). That's more than I can say for the Nook Tablet, even though I've rooted the latter (eg, the B&N eMail and Gallery applications are garbage). The nice thing about the NT is the battery life.
not overseas
somebody9 said:
Exactly. It doesn't matter how high you set the reward. The fact remains that a bootloader key is by most means impossible to figure out. Unless of course you make a mistake like Sony did with their PS encryption.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you are missing the point of this post:
The point is to get MORE people here than our ONE dev to try. All it takes is 1 mistake to break a bootloader and it happens occasionally. If you do not want to participate then please by all means DON'T and stop complaining.
I am fully aware, as everyone else, that the bootloader probably will not be broke in the next 7 days. Everyone should be loudly applauding my attempt to get more devs involved instead of flaming away here and in the other forum about my decision to offer a reward.
I am so going to laugh when someone from left field comes and figures this out while all of you are still complaining. Maybe it should be made a private fix just for me until people come and apologize for the flaming? (I'm not that way and I wouldn't do that, but I know a lot of people that wouldn't put up with the crap I am getting).
brett014 said:
I think you are missing the point of this post:
The point is to get MORE people here than our ONE dev to try. All it takes is 1 mistake to break a bootloader and it happens occasionally. If you do not want to participate then please by all means DON'T and stop complaining.
I am fully aware, as everyone else, that the bootloader probably will not be broke in the next 7 days. Everyone should be loudly applauding my attempt to get more devs involved instead of flaming away here and in the other forum about my decision to offer a reward.
I am so going to laugh when someone from left field comes and figures this out while all of you are still complaining. Maybe it should be made a private fix just for me until people come and apologize for the flaming? (I'm not that way and I wouldn't do that, but I know a lot of people that wouldn't put up with the crap I am getting).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's just the ridiculousness of the whole scenario. Why would you piss away $400 on top of the $250 bucks you already spent on the NT, ultimately spending $650 dollars on it, just to get other devs to come in on the project. Take that 650, wait a little bit and get the new Transformer Prime, that thing is freakin sweet. Just my 2 cents, but to each his own.
Marti1337 said:
Here's a thought, and I am by no means a genius, but why don't you return your NT, take that $250 + your $400 and buy a better device? Thats what I would do if I had the money to blow, just an idea
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol x2
Sent from my BNTV250 using Tapatalk
Marti1337 said:
I think it's just the ridiculousness of the whole scenario. Why would you piss away $400 on top of the $250 bucks you already spent on the NT, ultimately spending $650 dollars on it, just to get other devs to come in on the project. Take that 650, wait a little bit and get the new Transformer Prime, that thing is freakin sweet. Just my 2 cents, but to each his own.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well... it is my money and it is my tablet. As i have already explained 3 times I loved the Nook Color and want to love the Nook Tablet. I love the personalization available on the Nook Color and if that was possible on the Nook Tablet it would be EASILY worth it to me. Honestly your opinion about how I spend my money isn't even worth the two cents you are offering.
Once again I don't understand people. I am making an offer to get MORE dev's to come and help us and all people do is complain... how is that helping? even if the bootloader reward fails and i return my NT, you guys are the winners because maybe more devs will show than the ONE we have now.
brett014 said:
Well... it is my money and it is my tablet. As i have already explained 3 times I loved the Nook Color and want to love the Nook Tablet. I love the personalization available on the Nook Color and if that was possible on the Nook Tablet it would be EASILY worth it to me. Honestly your opinion about how I spend my money isn't even worth the two cents you are offering.
Once again I don't understand people. I am making an offer to get MORE dev's to come and help us and all people do is complain... how is that helping? even if the bootloader reward fails and i return my NT, you guys are the winners because maybe more devs will show than the ONE we have now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just trying to give you a little insight as to your inquiry of why people aren't seeing eye-to-eye with you. Don't get your e-panties in a bunch. Like I said: to each his own.
Related
English isn't my first language, otherwise I'd write one myself.
I'm looking for a good english writer to write a petition to B&N to provide the development community with an ability to access the bootloader and root the device.
I think main points should be that they've made a lot of money by allowing people to mod original NC, and that this will greatly increase the interest in purchasing the NT. Also, worth mentioning some examples of devices like Captivate that really benefited from custom community development (improved GPS, fixed many bugs, early GB port, etc).
Basically persuade B&N to support and appreciate development community and give us means to develop for them.
Needless to mention, only use words like "develop", "improve", etc... not "hack" and "crack" lol.
Here's the site I found where we can collect signatures:
http://www.makeuseof.com/dir/petitionspotcom/
POST IT HERE first, then we'll go and make it official.
PS: before anybody goes all "they ain't gonna listen yo" - let me remind you of Samsung's support to SuperCurio about improving Galaxy S's sound processing. After community asked Samsung, they actually provided full support and helped SuperCurio improve the device.
Providing a device and documentation is VERY different from unlocking a bootloader, unfortunately...
Entropy512 said:
Providing a device and documentation is VERY different from unlocking a bootloader, unfortunately...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, but I think my point remains - this is another avenue of "attack" to get B&N to support us.
Our hackers are approaching this from technical side, I want to try and help and organize a line of communication with B&N and see if we can get them to help us.
Get your petition up and I'll sign! I was going to get a NT but now I'm not so sure. If it can't run from a dual booting SD card, it's just not worth it. Might as well pony up and get a "real" tablet.
Assuming the bootloader is proven to be locked, I'm simply taking mine back. The apps I use on the Nook Color *must* be available on the Nook Tablet, or it's not worth my money.
I hate to say it, but I'm in the same boat. I bought it because of what was accomplished with the NC and because of B&N's assurances that the same would be possible with the NT.
goldenu said:
Assuming the bootloader is proven to be locked, I'm simply taking mine back. The apps I use on the Nook Color *must* be available on the Nook Tablet, or it's not worth my money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iamnarada said:
I hate to say it, but I'm in the same boat. I bought it because of what was accomplished with the NC and because of B&N's assurances that the same would be possible with the NT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what are you guys running on the NC that you cant run on the NT?
you can sideload apps onto the NT and run goLauncher etc...
postulio said:
what are you guys running on the NC that you cant run on the NT?
you can sideload apps onto the NT and run goLauncher etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed. i'm a little confused. I get the SD boot issue being a problem, but I haven't come across any apps that I use that couldn't be sideloaded.
maybe i'm just old and don't use some of the stuff you guys use?
I really enjoy the NT but don't know how long I will keep it if I constantly have to use workarounds to get any functionality out of it.
No custom kernels / ROMs
No Android Market
No settings page
No root (so far at least)
Nook button opens Nook launcher only
i dunno, I guess I'm just more patient than most. I really didn't expect to buy it and have it as functional as it is already, leave alone rooted or installing custom roms. I expected that in a few months....
I'm just glad I could install a real browser, and have access to install the apks i wanted.
postulio said:
what are you guys running on the NC that you cant run on the NT?
you can sideload apps onto the NT and run goLauncher etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, all of the Google apps install fine, but when I try to sign in to my account or associate it my account with the tablet, it tells me my user name or password is wrong. So effectively, I can't use any of the Google apps. I can log in to my google account in the browser, and access the web versions of the apps, but....what I was looking for really was to be able to put the ROM I wanted on it.
Add me to the list of those with a clock ticking. Picked mine up on the 16th, and it stays wrapped until we know if the NT can be rooted - or day 14 - whichever comes first.
Progress is great so far - but I don't want a device that can be locked down with any random update from B&N. Based on their earlier broken promises, they have about zero credibility for things said.
Let me retract my line about broken promises - that was Amazon that promised no rooting roadblocks - and they kept to their word. I don't think B&N made any statement about this.
A petition is good, for sure. But it doesn't hurt if everyone also contacted B&N [[email protected]] and explained personally and sincerely why it would be in their best interest to unlock the Tablet. I'd focus on how their specs are superior, but useless if they're not open. I'd mention the limited space for side-loading, and enabling 3rd party apps.
I'd remind them how popular their Nook Color got, and free press, when the NC was rooted. And use the MS Kinect & Linksys WRT-54G as examples of success stories when a company adopts and opens their hardware.
I thought everyone knows that e-petition is totally worthless. Actually, it's worse than worthless, since it gives you a false sense of complacency.
If rooting is that important to you, then take more effort than the few keyclicks to fill out an e-petition.
Take your purchased NT to the nearest B&N store. Return it, and make sure you give the reason why it's being returned, that the NT is hostile to tech enthusiasts. Say that you'll now consider the Kindle Fire because of its more tech-friendly mindset (whether that's true or not). Say that given your status as the go-to tech dude, you'll recommend against the NT for any who asks.
Ask to speak to a manager or a tech specialist; you don't want your words wasted on a grunt. Be polite but firm at all times.
Money speaks the loudest. Let your money speak for you. Buy something else.
e.mote said:
I thought everyone knows that e-petition is totally worthless. Actually, it's worse than worthless, since it gives you a false sense of complacency.
If rooting is that important to you, then take more effort than the few keyclicks to fill out an e-petition.
Take your purchased NT to the nearest B&N store. Return it, and make sure you give the reason why it's being returned, that the NT is hostile to tech enthusiasts. Say that you'll now consider the Kindle Fire because of its more tech-friendly mindset (whether that's true or not). Say that given your status as the go-to tech dude, you'll recommend against the NT for any who asks.
Ask to speak to a manager or a tech specialist; you don't want your words wasted on a grunt. Be polite but firm at all times.
Money speaks the loudest. Let your money speak for you. Buy something else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If everyone were to do what you're saying, B&N would lose 3% of NT's total sales (judging by statistics someone referenced here), call it within a sales estimation margin of error and ignore it.
And we'd all be left without a $250 tablet, or with a ****tier one.
Sorry, don't like your solution. It'd only work if, say, 25%+ of NT buyers wanted root.
And you think e-petitions are better? Good luck with that.
There are different ways to communicate. Some more effective, some less. E-petition is at the bottom of the heap, followed by e-mail.
Money--ie making vendor lose money with refunds--is the most powerful method of persuasion. Sure, there may not be enough people to make the vendor reconsider, but it beats moping around and twirling your thumbs, hoping the vendor will change its mind with some dumb e-petition, no?
BTW, techies have an outsized influence on vendor decisions, as long as they know the proper buttons to push. B&N right now is in a battle with Amazon for e-readers. Saying that you'll get a Kindle Fire, and will recommend everyone to do so, is a big button you can push. Forcing the vendor to lose money with refunds is another.
In any case, if your envisioned use is a rooted NT, then this isn't it, so why hang onto it? If/when the NT is rooted, you can always buy it again.
e.mote said:
And you think e-petitions are better? Good luck with that.
There are different ways to communicate. Some more effective, some less. E-petition is at the bottom of the heap, followed by e-mail.
Money--ie making vendor lose money with refunds--is the most powerful method of persuasion. Sure, there may not be enough people to make the vendor reconsider, but it beats moping around and twirling your thumbs, hoping the vendor will change its mind with some dumb e-petition, no?
BTW, techies have an outsized influence on vendor decisions, as long as they know the proper buttons to push. B&N right now is in a battle with Amazon for e-readers. Saying that you'll get a Kindle Fire, and will recommend everyone to do so, is a big button you can push. Forcing the vendor to lose money with refunds is another.
In any case, if your envisioned use is a rooted NT, then this isn't it, so why hang onto it? If/when the NT is rooted, you can always buy it again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People have different reasons.
For one, if I were to call for mass returns of NT, that'd greatly decrease interest in rooting the NT, which makes it even worse. If you decided NT is not for you and u want KF - godspeed, I'm sure you've got your reasons.
And no, petitions are NOT worthless. Not with decent companies. As I've mentioned, ask SuperCurio and his collaboration with Samsung.
I, for one, had a $100 gift card for B&N, so it's $150 NT versus $200 KF for me. Regardless, even without that giftcard, I'd still not go for KF when there's NT around, cause KF is just gimped and kinda useless.
Regardless, can we please return to the topic of this thread - I'm looking for someone's help writing a letter to B&N asking them for help achieving root for developers.
>If you decided NT is not for you and u want KF - godspeed, I'm sure you've got your reasons.
I've no interest in the KF, and for now, the NT. But it doesn't hurt to tell B&N that I consider their competition to be better, for persuasion purposes.
>And no, petitions are NOT worthless. Not with decent companies.
"not with decent companies"..
Life's experience isn't something that can be told, I suppose. Good luck with your quixotic quest. Please do keep the NT past the return period, and make B&N happy.
Yes, let's return to the topic of e-petition. Below is a piece that'll let you know your chances. Welcome to the world of SLACKTIVISM.
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/internet.asp
e.mote said:
>If you decided NT is not for you and u want KF - godspeed, I'm sure you've got your reasons.
I've no interest in the KF, and for now, the NT. But it doesn't hurt to tell B&N that I consider their competition to be better, for persuasion purposes.
>And no, petitions are NOT worthless. Not with decent companies.
"not with decent companies"..
Life's experience isn't something that can be told, I suppose. Good luck with your quixotic quest. Please do keep the NT past the return period, and make B&N happy.
Yes, let's return to the topic of e-petition. Below is a piece that'll let you know your chances.
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/internet.asp
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, we get it. You're not happy. Return your NT and leave the NT forum. We're all just trying to have a friendly discussion here. There's no need to be so negative. Thank you.
Sent from my Nook Tablet using Tapatalk
... give us a copy of Bootloader unlocker!
Pleeeeeeeaseeeeeeee
They have a bootloader unlocker? I thought they were just going to system restores and stuff like that. Getting anything they have would be a huge benefit to the community.
To any of you B&N employee's if you don't feel comfortable publicly posting that stuff just pm a dev or really anyone on here you feel like. I'm sure lots of us wouldn't mind being the middle man(myself included).
…if you were work for Barnes & Noble, you're in less of a position to help anyone than we are.
What are you expecting, exactly? Someone to leak a signing key and they lose their job for a $250 tablet?
As a consumer, the best thing you can do is not buy the Nook Tablet. It's the best way to send a message to B&N.
tamasrepus said:
As a consumer, the best thing you can do is not buy the Nook Tablet. It's the best way to send a message to B&N.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YES!
Spot on!
come on! Who doesn't want to participate in a little corporate espionage?
tamasrepus said:
As a consumer, the best thing you can do is not buy the Nook Tablet. It's the best way to send a message to B&N.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah us android geeks not buying the ipad has really helped to make them realize to make their stuff more open and less commie.
By not buying and being silent, how is Barnes and noble going to get the message. Companies are far more likely to listen to paying customers. Remember nowadays XDA is a amazing resource for manufacturers. How many articles have been written about breakthroughs developers made at XDA. Thats free publicity and free development for them.
I am sure Barnes and noble pays somebody to check this forum, and others. That is why I suggested that i somebody wanted to leak something they could anonymously PM somebody on here and get it out that way.
B&N: get the message
I second and third and fourth that. B&N has two markets for their product, and if they purposefully make it very difficult to root the device, they are going to lose one of those markets. I'd buy a Nook tablet tomorrow if I were comfortable with being able to achieve a clean install of a rooted image, but without that, I'll likely go to another device. It would be a shame.
As mentioned before... the XDA crowd is not likely the market for this device due to the fact that the device is most likely lost leading.... It's in no way the interest of BN to provide any of the tools for you to do this.
Don't believe me? Look at the current sideloading situation... People are already on the Android/Amazon markets which technically means money out of BN's coffers...
trippap said:
I second and third and fourth that. B&N has two markets for their product, and if they purposefully make it very difficult to root the device, they are going to lose one of those markets. I'd buy a Nook tablet tomorrow if I were comfortable with being able to achieve a clean install of a rooted image, but without that, I'll likely go to another device. It would be a shame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In all reality they didn't make it hard to root at all. Root was achieved by modifying usb drivers and using a known exploit. B&N had plenty of time to lock this tablet down way more than it is. Even sideloading is super easy. The bootloader is another matter all together, still I have a feeling somebody will find a simple workaround
>In all reality they didn't make it hard to root at all.
I don't think B&N had much to do with the low-level stuff, just the top-level design. The locked bootloader as has been said was likely for Netflix HD cert, since OMAP4 already had that feature. They didn't need to do anything extra. Otherwise, it's the same custom layer on top of 2.x.
The NT even retained the 1GB user-space which is a carryover from NC. Some modicum of sense would've shown that you don't need 12GB for app space, and would've avoided the bad reviews. Per Occam's Razor, don't attribute malice when incompetence will do.
tamasrepus said:
What are you expecting, exactly? Someone to leak a signing key and they lose their job for a $250 tablet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quoted for truth. The M-Shield security setup that is locking down the bootloader uses a one-time-programmable e-fuse inside the cpu so that the key it's looking for or the logic to do so can never be reprogrammed. Unless I missing something in their setup I don't see how a bootloader unlocker would be possible. Instead they would have to give use their private key to sign our own files
The more I read about the locked bootloader, the more I regret purchasing the tablet. They have, however, made some promising progress with this tablet, and I haven't heard anyone say definitively that it is not possible to bypass this obstacle.
For the record, is the kindle fire's bootloader locked?
Update 12/8/2011:
The campaign is closed, currently the device is paid by:
Albert W - suicideclown
Logan L - Loglud
James B- jtbnet
Charles S - 150pilot
Nick W - Indirect
For people that expressed interested in donation can still donate, but the funds will go directly to the NT development team, as either reserve for another donation developer device, or as funding for the celebratory party for when the bootloader is finally broken and we can get custom rom into our beloved NT
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Hi my fellow Nook Tablet tinkers and enthusiast, adamoutler has expressed interested in helping us developing for NT, he has extensive experience breaking bootloader for hardware locked devices. I want to see if we can get enough interested from the forum to poll together $280 - $300 dollar to cover the cost for the NT and shipping.
What you guys think of the idea? If we can get enough interest, I am in for $10.
Here is adamoutler own input on the topic
AdamOutler said:
I've been sitting back watching this thread for a while now. It's time to stop this foolishness. First off, the first post was started with absolutely no information.. basically 'you know what would be cool?'.. then the rest of the discussion has been a bunch of randomness. Why has not a single person mentioned the datasheets for the processor or memory? Why has Boone posted a memory dump of IROM? This thread contains nothing useful.
UnBrickable mod is the way to go. Put a device in my hands and ill enable it to boot from USB or sdcard. The device uses a hardware initiates boot chain. This chain can be broken at the hardware level.
This is an omap4430 device right?
Give me a device. Rebellos and I will locate the boot mode 5 pin which unlocks the boot from one NAND. We will then require an interceptor bootloader which is where Rebellos specializes. Once we hardware unlock the device and the interceptor bootloader is in place, the device will accept an insecure bootloader flash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Origionally the plans was to send a donated NT to Rayman84, but adamoutler expressed more confidence that he can do it. So Indirect, Loglu and Rayman84 talked it over and agree to give the donated device to adamoutler instead.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Update:
Indirect has graciously offer to take up the responsibility of money collection, purchasing and shipping the NT, so we can send the money to his Paypal account:
Indirect said:
Everyone who wants to donate, send the cash to:
[email protected] (it's my paypal account) and I'll order for Adam Outler's nook tablet.
...
He's the guy who did the unbrickable hardware mod to the Samsung Captivate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PS: looks like KF just got CM7. With such great team of developers and active/supportive forum members, I have confidence that we will get there very soon also.
Donation so far:
--------------------------------------------------------------
gordon1hd1 - $10 (money send)
lipps - $10
ugic - $10
whatwhat456 - $10
suicideclown - >$10 (money send)
B00M! - $10
r2tbone - $10
nookabee - $20
Lucifus - $20
nook_lover - $10
thatdude90210 - $10
GTOJim - $10
kusje - $20
magius - $20
phroeix - $10
plainspoken - $20
Loglud - >$20 (money send)
jtbnet - >$20 (money send)
150pilot - >$20 (money send)
Indirect ->$20 (money send)
If I were to purchase one for someone else, it would be rayman. He is the person that cracked the Asus Transformer...
I would make a small donation if we could agree who should get it
suicideclown said:
If I were to purchase one for someone else, it would be rayman. He is the person that cracked the Asus Transformer...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 on rayman. Great dev.
Any idea on his level of commitment if he were to receive a nook?
I mean I wouldn't want to be like 'HERE IS 250$ BUY A NOOK YOUR HIRED!'
Sure free stuff is nice.. but, it just seems more polite to ask them first..
I think either one would be great. Dalingrin have experience pushing the limit of the NC kernel which has some similarities to the NT kernel. He is also a driving factor for getting CM7 stable on the NC, as well as leading the effort on getting ICS on the NC. I think he can contribute the most in helping us getting a custom and stable CM7 going, even working within the limitation on the NT stock kernel.
I am not too familiar with Rayman's work, but by the sound of the reference from the forum members here, he would be an awesome developer to help support the NT. By the way what is his expertise?
I don't mind we who we donate the NT to, as long as he/she p hehe) can be a great contributor to the NT forum, and help us get custom ROM on the NT sooner. Or even maybe even a custom ICS compatible kernel.
Let see how much interest we can get for a device donation. Once we get the necessary commitment ($260 inc Tax) for a NT, then we can reach out to the developers to see if either one of them is interested.
I'd be in for $10.
Another 10$ from me for sure
I'm in for $10
FWIW here is dalingrin's reply on the NC forum to that question
boomn said:
FWIW here is dalingrin's reply on the NC forum to that question
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
does anyone know Rayman, and can ping him to see if he might be interested.
gordon1hd1 said:
does anyone know Rayman, and can ping him to see if he might be interested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ill reach out to him, I know what IRC he hangs on.
Hi,
suicideclown managed to get the message to me and here I am
So, yeah, it sounds interesting, BUT:
I'm European so I wouldn't be able to buy one myself
Does the NT even work decently outside of US?
I work on a number of devices, so my spare time is limited
For my previous work, you can checkout at least www.androidroot.mobi
It's mostly directed towards transformer so far, but we have been discussing branching out to other devices, lol. I'm also working on ICS for TF and Notion Ink Adam and I have gotten quite far with that. (including porting to newer kernels)
Disclaimer:
Even if I spent 24/7 on a thing like this, there's no guarantee it's doable. IF I were to get a device I'd certainly spend a considerable amount of time trying to unlock as much as possible, but there's no guarantees ever with things like this.
I realize my response is a bit cryptic, but I just want to make clear how things would work if I were to receive a device in this way (So far, I have bought every single device I've hacked on!)
rayman84 said:
Hi,
suicideclown managed to get the message to me and here I am
So, yeah, it sounds interesting, BUT:
I'm European so I wouldn't be able to buy one myself
Does the NT even work decently outside of US?
I work on a number of devices, so my spare time is limited
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We could ship you one , It works fine outside the US, you just wouldnt be able to take advantage of the barnes and noble content. .
Would you also need a power converter for europe, or do you have one of these already?
I would donate $10 to getting him a nooktablet.
If he wants, we could have the tablet shipped to me and I can remove the apps that it uses to authenticate to Barnes and noble.
Sent by breaking the sound barrier
Indirect said:
If he wants, we could have the tablet shipped to me and I can remove the apps that it uses to authenticate to Barnes and noble.
Sent by breaking the sound barrier
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there a need for that? I'm in Singapore and I managed to register just fine. If shipping is a concern, I am a big fan of Borderlinx (you will need a Citibank credit card for that). They are an excellent reshipping service and you can usually google up a discount coupon code.
I've got $10 on it
I am wondering if it would be easier to buy it from Amazon reseller and have it ship to Europe, instead of me or someone else handling the shipping.
gordon1hd1 said:
Hi my fellow Nook Tablet tinkers and enthusiast, rayman84 has expressed interested in helping us developing for NT, he has great experience developing for the Asus Transformer. Since he is in Europe, we will have to buy and ship him the NT our-self. I want to see if we can get enough interested from the forum to poll together $280 - $300 dollar to cover the cost for the NT and international shipping.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note that I can't commit to developing for it!
What I mean is:
I'll spend time (a fair amount of time!) trying to break it open
I'll spend time developing whatever tools I might need to get it done (and release source)
I won't be making custom roms and similar if 1) succeeds.
Developing is a very broad word, and it easily leads to misunderstandings, so just wanna set expectations right
rayman84 said:
Hi,
suicideclown managed to get the message to me and here I am
So, yeah, it sounds interesting, BUT:
I'm European so I wouldn't be able to buy one myself
Does the NT even work decently outside of US?
I work on a number of devices, so my spare time is limited
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Shipping can be handled easily.
2. Yes, the only thing is in order to purchase anything from the Market the Nook would need to have a bank account that is either from the US or Canada. This would be a non issue of course as I doubt you would need anything from the B&N Market, and even if you did you could always load up a giftcard and tie it to a B&N account and make purchases that way.
3. A number of us would greatly appreciate any time that you would be able to devote to this device.
$10 from me
How to sign up on Barnes and Nobel's website
To sign up on the Barnes & Nobel "book club" forum, and report your issues with your device, you can use your Barnes & Nobel Username and Password. You only need to select a name for the forum.
Getting Results
Lets link the topics here. If we want the topics to be highly visible to Barnes and Nobel, we must all "Laurel" (aka thanks) each other's posts. Here are some of my posts:
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...ion/Sticky-Side-Loading-is-broken/m-p/1245453
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...pment-is-stifled-on-this-device/idi-p/1244851
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...ent-tools-for-the-Nook-Store/m-p/1244651#M664
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...ease-signed-open-ended-X-Loader/idi-p/1243051
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...tore-the-ability-to-sideload-apps/m-p/1243023
Keep in mind that this is a "noob" forum. They will look up to you if you are developing. Noobs go to the "book club" to learn how to use their devices. We want to make sure the noobs see that we have more problems than they do with the device as it is. It needs to be opened up.
Official Channels (aka probly wont' work)
Here is another link for forwarding your concerns to higher levels https://nookdeveloper.barnesandnoble.com/support/support.html
email addresses for expressing your free-thinking concerns.
[email protected]
[email protected]
Using our community to push their community
I will laurel every development/root enabling link in this thread. So post up your Barnes and Nobel forum threads here and we can all laurel each others posts to bring them into the "top laureled posts" on Barnes and Nobel and thereby make them unable to ignore our posts.
Lets send several clear messages.
Don't forget their NT youtube channel. They had a video about the 1.4.1 update and I had commented there about opening up the device for developers.
B&N won't get it. We need more devs to work on this device. I'm sure with enough eyeballs on this thing we will be able to crack it.
xdahgary said:
B&N won't get it. We need more devs to work on this device. I'm sure with enough eyeballs on this thing we will be able to crack it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Attitudes like that are extremely unhelpful. In fact, I take offense to that. Only a handful of members on this site are actually developers and others(like you) take an attitude that development 'just happens'.
Here's some news for you, douchebag, development is tons of work. Its trials and tribulations. Its blood, sweat and tears. Its trial and error. Countless hours of work. And before we can even begin, we need a workaround for the security.
Guess what.. This is it. This is called social engineering. As stated by the most effective social engineer in the world, 'The best way to get a password is to ask for it". Until we have that password, there will be no development.
Now stop *****ing about **** you don't know and get in there to do some work. There's those who help and those who hinder. Guess what your post does.
This thread is about one thing. If you don't have anything to contribute, don't be a douchebag.
Return the NT. They will get their attention. Mine goes back next week. No to locked bootloader. No to blocked side loading. No to Barnes and Noble. I'll buy my books from Amazon from now on.
Sent from my BNTV250 using xda premium
I'll be returning my NT as I am within the two week return period unless the bootloader is broken within a matter of days. Otherwise, even if 1.4.1 becomes rootable again I can't check every few days to see if an update is coming and take the time to read all the preventative steps to avoid having to re-root. It is quite a disappointment to have gotten everything working on my NT only to find root broken, some of my apps completely gone and wifi ad hoc not working this morning.
I'm certainly not a developer, so I'll help with the means available. Unfortunately, after logging in on the B&N forum, it seems clicking on the laurel doesn't iterate the counter...
Don't know what's wrong, I'm trying over Safari or Chrome
You're taking it too personal. I have contributed in every way in the development. I have donated and left comments on your B&N links. But changing a corporation's mindset is very difficult. I hope B&N will change their ways, but I'm not optimistic. I would like more developers taking interest in the nook tablet instead. And I in no means believe development just happens. That is why I buy them beers.
I fail to see the need to call someone a douchebag because they stated the obvious... B&N does not care, nor will internet posts change their mind..
Returning the device won't really impact them as 97% of users will / can care less about hacking it...
Instead of jumping up and down like caged animals and threatning to return it why not trust in the developers of XDA? I do and I often hit their donate button...
I guess I'm next to get called a douche...
My .02
real-6 said:
I'm certainly not a developer, so I'll help with the means available. Unfortunately, after logging in on the B&N forum, it seems clicking on the laurel doesn't iterate the counter...
Don't know what's wrong, I'm trying over Safari or Chrome
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to log in and create a pen name. It's kind of a pain, but I was able to do it.
Thanks Adam for the initiative you are taking on this product. I hope it eventually helps.
While i share in the sentiment that B&N is not going to care about a hand full of noisy people, ill put my 2 cents in at the store and their sites and cross my fingers. We are not asking for that much, are we?
I'm way past my 2 week grace period so I'm either stuck with it or it goes on e-bay at a loss if there isn't a work around in a reasonable amount of time. ( no I'm not slamming on the xda developers.. just that at some point you have to cut your losses and give up )
I did buy the device with full intent for a couple of non-bn functions, and while some of them still work ( but not all ) it will still prevent me from ever updating the app which means at some point, its useless.
Nurb432 said:
While i share in the sentiment that B&N is not going to care about a hand full of noisy people, ill put my 2 cents in at the store and their sites and cross my fingers. We are not asking for that much, are we?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's worth a few seconds of our time.
To anyone who does head over there, try to be positive. There are a few members there who are personally insulting folks like us, please don't take the bait. They aren't your intended audience, you won't change their minds even if they were and they aren't worth your time anyway. Just stay positive and encourage openness, and laurel those posts that do the same.
Will do Adam. It is the least we can do for someone who has done so much for all of us. I started emailing them a couple days ago thinking the squeaky wheel and all that but continue to get the auto-response.
AdamOutler said:
Here's some news for you, douchebag, development is tons of work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bah humbug? Great thread.
This is a thread on B&N's community board. A link in this thread states the special return/refund policy for this holiday season -
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com...licy/m-p/1246537/message-uid/1246537#U1246537
Only the top management at this time can make difference. One thing for sure that the top management cares more than the customer complaint is the earnings. My theory is that if there are enough returns to impact the earnings, this may help the top management to think through the issue clearly.
B&N's 3rd qtr ends on January 31, 2012 which coincide with the extended return period for holiday (see the link above). So you can make the best judgement about what you can do to help yourselves.
dkb218 said:
Return the NT. They will get their attention. Mine goes back next week. No to locked bootloader. No to blocked side loading. No to Barnes and Noble. I'll buy my books from Amazon from now on.
Sent from my BNTV250 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First I'm not personally going after you here. I see this type of opinion across alot of forums. When you go to return it you don't have the option to say any of things you have pointed out. Us XDA'ers may be a minority but we are known to be very loud. I do feel that Adam's plan is the best course of action to accomplish what is needed to make the Nook a great tablet.
That being said, everything you have pointed out is very real concern to me, and I have been seriously considering returning mine. But I'm not really seeing any real development(comparing to the major phones) on any tablet besides the Samsung galaxy tab(which I can't afford) I'm thinking once Adam and the rest of the guys in the development thread get through the bootloader issue we might have one of the better development communities's going once we can attract the rest of the nook color guys.
The complaints about 1.4.1 are written everywhere. It's very hard to imagine that B&N is not knowing about what is going on.
The advantage of being a Tablet ex-owner is no longer emotionally attached to the device and will be able to see the situation without bias. If s/he still likes it, it's always possible to buy it back in February. May be a pre-owned one at a discount?
Don't know if you guys got the memo, but unless you bought your NT before November 14th, you have until January 31st(I think) to return them, open or unopened. Extended holiday returns are a beautiful thing. I would post a link to the info on the website, but I'm too lazy.
Merry Christmas!
So i got my first reply from B&N that basically stated they really don't care , and they removed side loading to prevent piracy. So i guess that means all other markets are just pirates? My foot, its all about lock-in and restriction of free trade.
Last B&N product i ever buy.
I'm also forwarding a complaint on to my states attorney general.
I decided against getting a Nook Tablet, and told my family not to get a Nook Tablet. Since I'm the IT guy of the family my words have a lot of weight when it comes to buying tech goodies.
That's how we here in this board can hurt B&N bottom line. WE'RE the guys/gals that our family comes to and says: "Is this a good thing to get?" and our answer can steer them to or away from the NT. Right now the answer to them is stay away from the Nook Tablet.
My sister and father both got Kindle Fires BTW.
Hey all,
I've been a lurker for a while, been looking for a way to encourage the now Google-owned Motorola Mobility to unlock their bootloaders much like HTC has wisely done, but it's becoming more and more obvious to me that they don't care about the "minority" of us that actually feels as though we are entitled to full admin rights on our phones that we either paid a ton of cash for, or signed a lengthy contract to obtain. Verizon is the one blocking it? HTC found a way, and so can Motorola Mobility...that is cop-out.
My proposal is that there be an effort to unlocked the bootloader, I am not some expert programmer, and I am open to whatever will help the cause. I know there was a bounty on it, but to me this isn't about money, I'll donate time, money, information ripped from my phone if it, in some way, contributes to unlocked that bootloader. Even if you need my unused CPU cycles to calculate things, I don't care, just tell me what I can to do help, because I am sick of not being able to use my phone to it's fully potential.
Maybe I am being naive, but I believe if we all worked together we could accomplish this goal. If you agree, please, let's organize and figure this out!
-Joshua
I love optimism
I'm down with the movement...
This phone does have mad potential to be so limited compared to other phones.
I just can't believe that we are running an unofficial, incomplete version of CM7 and it runs smoother than stock Blur.
Is that telling you something about Motorola?
Do you guys think Google will make that decision for Motorola or will Moto stay the same?
Sent from my Android
Worth a try...
Re: Google changing Moto policy
I don't know so much about Google changing Motorola's stance on the locked bootloader, we've tried petitioning the company themselves, but have we tried petitioning Google? Or maybe it's too soon, maybe they are working on it right now? Hard to tell, and I don't want to put pressure on Google too soon especially if they are trying diligently right now to do the right thing.
But the above poster is right, cracking it ourselves is definitely worth a try. I have contacts (unfortunately know inside Motorola), I know people with lots of knowledge on encryption, I'll be honest one of my friends does have a knack for the impossible, but this would be too much for one lone person. I also have a few computers in the house, to donate computing power. None above 5 GB of RAM unfortunately, but my friend with all of that know-how does also have a synchronous 20/mbit up/down connection to the net, if that helps, and I have another friend that is the linux admin at a an unnamed private university in Durham that might could lend a hand in some way.
We have the resources, we just need to pool them.
Someone with the realistic technical know-how, just tell us where to begin, and the shortest path to getting to our goal and we'll do all we can to contribute!
Thanks for understanding and not just writing this off as a pipe-dream...because I know if we work together we can accomplish almost anything.
-Joshua
spyda256 said:
I don't know so much about Google changing Motorola's stance on the locked bootloader, we've tried petitioning the company themselves, but have we tried petitioning Google? Or maybe it's too soon, maybe they are working on it right now? Hard to tell, and I don't want to put pressure on Google too soon especially if they are trying diligently right now to do the right thing.
But the above poster is right, cracking it ourselves is definitely worth a try. I have contacts (unfortunately know inside Motorola), I know people with lots of knowledge on encryption, I'll be honest one of my friends does have a knack for the impossible, but this would be too much for one lone person. I also have a few computers in the house, to donate computing power. None above 5 GB of RAM unfortunately, but my friend with all of that know-how does also have a synchronous 20/mbit up/down connection to the net, if that helps, and I have another friend that is the linux admin at a an unnamed private university in Durham that might could lend a hand in some way.
We have the resources, we just need to pool them.
Someone with the realistic technical know-how, just tell us where to begin, and the shortest path to getting to our goal and we'll do all we can to contribute!
Thanks for understanding and not just writing this off as a pipe-dream...because I know if we work together we can accomplish almost anything.
-Joshua
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i love your optimism i have some old pms that may help with the effort
SHA-1 brute force can be cracked for around $2 of Amazon cloud computing service.
http://www.geek.com/articles/news/r...for-2-10-with-amazons-cloud-service-20101122/
Isn't boot loader use SHA-1 encryption?
(of course, the key may be much longer, but it may not be impossible for cheap. I say try to pool together like $100 and try Amazon cloud computing a try?)
Re: Amazon
hpark21:
I like the way you're thinking, does anyone else think this might be a good call? I know there was a bounty of around ~$800 somewhere, so I doubt if all of us who rightfully were promised and unlocked bootloader wouldn't mind pooling a bit of money for the computing power, hell I myself would give $50 to the effort if we knew it was a viable solution.
Other thoughts?
Also, ztotherad, if you could send me those PMs maybe we can sift through those and see if there are some other avenues, nothing is off the table at this point.
thanks again for coming together on this, that is the true meaning of community.
spyda256 said:
hpark21:
I like the way you're thinking, does anyone else think this might be a good call? I know there was a bounty of around ~$800 somewhere, so I doubt if all of us who rightfully were promised and unlocked bootloader wouldn't mind pooling a bit of money for the computing power, hell I myself would give $50 to the effort if we knew it was a viable solution.
Other thoughts?
Also, ztotherad, if you could send me those PMs maybe we can sift through those and see if there are some other avenues, nothing is off the table at this point.
thanks again for coming together on this, that is the true meaning of community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i can def send you them, idk how much help theyll be
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
Stuckinabox said:
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In one of the many threads concerning bootloader unlocks, I believe the chances of us finding it were determined to be 1mill:1. It would take us over a decade to manually come up with the key. I don't want to kill confidence, but I'd like to keep things relatively rational.
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium
Stuckinabox said:
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's been established that brute forcing is nearly impossible, not completely impossible
it is something that would take an insane amount of resources to accomplish , and/or time ,
it would really come down to "how lucky are we?" really, as in::: how lucky are we that we stumble across or know a genius that can crack it, stumble across needed files, etc...
good luck to all who try, I wish I could do anything to get us there, but I don't know the first thing when it comes to this stuff, don't give up the dream!
Basically, what it comes down to is:
Find out what their hash key is. (encrypted password)
Then, try to go through all valid characters and see whether the input matches the output hash.
If one is lucky and they used short enough password, then it will be quick to find.
If unlucky and they used really long password, then the answer is that we won't be able to find it in REASONABLE time. (I would say 1-2 months to be reasonable - at $2/hr, it would cost $48/ day).
Only issue is when do we stop?
hpark21 said:
Basically, what it comes down to is:
Find out what their hash key is. (encrypted password)
Then, try to go through all valid characters and see whether the input matches the output hash.
If one is lucky and they used short enough password, then it will be quick to find.
If unlucky and they used really long password, then the answer is that we won't be able to find it in REASONABLE time. (I would say 1-2 months to be reasonable - at $2/hr, it would cost $48/ day).
Only issue is when do we stop?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There was some kind of crazy algorithm applied to each character to generate the correct item for each number of the key, correct? We would have to come up with that too?
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium
THANK YOU! Finally ... a revived movement. I pledged $100 on another thread and I'm good for putting it toward an unlocked bootloader again!
To learn from one of the most influential groups of our generation ... anonymous utilizes botnets to pool computing resources ... if we get a tool that could function similarly, could we not pool 1000s of computers together to crack it faster? It would make what is not feasible for a small set of computers to do... feasible. If all most users have to do is download a tool that gives us access to processing power and bandwidth ... users will download the hell out of it.
Count me in.
[ sent from _base2 ]
Hope
I understand doubters, and odds are likely against us, but that's ok, no one person can do it, and maybe not just one method, but somehow we WILL get to our goal. Whether Motorola capitulates or we find a method to crack it, we will not have this awesome hardware go to waste.
I am not generally a "black hat" kind of person, but in this case we are in the right so far as I am concerned (please don't quote DMCA BS to me, lol) because they made a promise to their customers, and it will be kept, whether they like it or not.
So, I am with the above poster that mention he didn't know quite where to start, or where we have already made progress, but if someone can help us out, explain the process, we figure out how to move forward. (Please forgive the run-on sentence).
I've minimal experience programming, only VB.net, C++, and a bit of Java from college, and I do tier 2 desktop support for a bank these days, but on my off time I'd love to spend it on something worthwhile, all of you deserve this, and we'll make it happen.
Maybe it's the troubleshooter in me that sees the problem and says "oh no, there's a way, we just need to find it". I have a colleague, the one I spoke of before, he has a knack for doing incredible things, so once we have a breakdown of what we need to do, perhaps he can be of help.
So my friends, where do we go from here?
spyda256 said:
I understand doubters, and odds are likely against us, but that's ok, no one person can do it, and maybe not just one method, but somehow we WILL get to our goal. Whether Motorola capitulates or we find a method to crack it, we will not have this awesome hardware go to waste.
I am not generally a "black hat" kind of person, but in this case we are in the right so far as I am concerned (please don't quote DMCA BS to me, lol) because they made a promise to their customers, and it will be kept, whether they like it or not.
So, I am with the above poster that mention he didn't know quite where to start, or where we have already made progress, but if someone can help us out, explain the process, we figure out how to move forward. (Please forgive the run-on sentence).
I've minimal experience programming, only VB.net, C++, and a bit of Java from college, and I do tier 2 desktop support for a bank these days, but on my off time I'd love to spend it on something worthwhile, all of you deserve this, and we'll make it happen.
Maybe it's the troubleshooter in me that sees the problem and says "oh no, there's a way, we just need to find it". I have a colleague, the one I spoke of before, he has a knack for doing incredible things, so once we have a breakdown of what we need to do, perhaps he can be of help.
So my friends, where do we go from here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sir, did you get my pms?
Re: PMs
Nope, just saw them, thanks for that!