I've read today that all Android phones (and others) have Carrier IQ installed in them at the factory to that is capable of transmitting keystrokes, website visits, email and SMS data to the carrier.
My questions is, Can we build a ROM without it? Below is the link referring to the software.
Thanks.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-5...ets-secretly-logging-keystrokes-sms-messages/
With all of your reading you forgot to read the multiple threads in this forum about this.
No our phones don't have it right now so no we can not remove it.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
pj1000 said:
I've read today that all Android phones (and others) have Carrier IQ installed in them at the factory to that is capable of transmitting keystrokes, website visits, email and SMS data to the carrier.
My questions is, Can we build a ROM without it? Below is the link referring to the software.
Thanks.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-5...ets-secretly-logging-keystrokes-sms-messages/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whoever told you all android phones had it was an idiot. Only some of them do - nearly all Sprint units, only newer AT&T units like the ****rocket and the Gingerbread updates for Infuse do.
(Probably Cappy GB has it and future updates for ours might.)
From what I understand, it doesn't send anything out of phones that have it installed, it just echoes data to the debug console.
Do you really think att needs that software to know your physical location? Does att need that to read your SMS? Know what numbers you dial?
Att could probably easily identify if you tether, or load a custom ROM on your phone. Its a matter of priority, and whether its worth the effort. Everything you do on your phone runs through their services. They know everything.
A program like that may make it easier for them to get the data, but I doubt it gives them any information that they couldn't get themselves if they really wanted it.
I don't see the big deal about it. What do I care if att knows where I am, who I call, and what I text, they already know all that. If att collecting data about how I use my phone leads to a better optimised data network, or better coverage then go for it.
What's next? People upset that google may be reading your Gmail? Or Comcast knowing what you watch on TV? Your credit card company knowing where you shop?
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
quarlow said:
Do you really think att needs that software to know your physical location? Does att need that to read your SMS? Know what numbers you dial?
Att could probably easily identify if you tether, or load a custom ROM on your phone. Its a matter of priority, and whether its worth the effort. Everything you do on your phone runs through their services. They know everything.
A program like that may make it easier for them to get the data, but I doubt it gives them any information that they couldn't get themselves if they really wanted it.
I don't see the big deal about it. What do I care if att knows where I am, who I call, and what I text, they already know all that. If att collecting data about how I use my phone leads to a better optimised data network, or better coverage then go for it.
What's next? People upset that google may be reading your Gmail? Or Comcast knowing what you watch on TV? Your credit card company knowing where you shop?
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
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Click to collapse
Said like a true lamb... lol
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
borguesian said:
Said like a true lamb... lol
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
By call means, enlighten me.
How should the system work? How do they deliver your message if they don't know what to send? How do they connect your call if they don't know what you dialed? How do they send you a website without knowing the web address you input? How do they route a call to you if they don't know what towers you are connected to, and where those towers are?
My point is that people are up in arms because att has has access to data that you give them on a daily basis. They need that data to serve you as a customer.
Nothing you do on the internet, or using wireless networks will ever be truly private. The only thing changing here is how the data is collected, not whether the data is collected.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
quarlow said:
By call means, enlighten me.
How should the system work? How do they deliver your message if they don't know what to send? How do they connect your call if they don't know what you dialed? How do they send you a website without knowing the web address you input? How do they route a call to you if they don't know what towers you are connected to, and where those towers are?
My point is that people are up in arms because att has has access to data that you give them on a daily basis. They need that data to serve you as a customer.
Nothing you do on the internet, or using wireless networks will ever be truly private. The only thing changing here is how the data is collected, not whether the data is collected.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
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Click to collapse
+1 quarlow
Very well said.
I can't really post a link but it seems like it has access to more than just your general txt/call/web data
From what I read in an article from Huffingtonpost.com
"The application, which is labeled on Eckhart’s HTC smartphone as "HTC IQ Agent," also logs the URL of websites searched on the phone, even if the user intends to encrypt that data using a URL that begins with "HTTPS," Eckhart said."
and from electronista.com
"The video also shows that the software records keystrokes. It likewise records calls with network strength values, which primarily allows carriers to fix problems but could also be used to intercept data. CarrierIQ is also collecting keystrokes of incompleted calls and even random keystrokes, or more than it needs
When using Wi-Fi, CarrierIQ records website security information, including URL and even passwords sent over the ostensibly secure HTTPS. This doesn't involve Sprint, as it's on Wi-Fi, so it shouldn't be recorded, Holly concludes."
In my opinion, it's one thing to know that a carrier obviously has access to much of this information if and when they should need it for court orders and other legal reasons. It's an entirely other thing though to specifically have software installed and intertwined into the core of the phone that has the potential to feed this information in another manner which obviously isn't explained to the end user.
I don't do anything on my phone that I wouldn't want them to see for very obvious reasons as stated above. But I would like to have at least the 'appearance' that not everything I do is going to be sifted through by AT&T or a 3rd party vendor. This type of software and the relative 'hush-hush' nature of it doesn't give me that feeling. It's like a rogue app just sitting in a dormant state waiting for AT&T or whoever to fire it up and log away.
Ok I'll end the paranoia and I don't think we have a basis to point our finger one way or the other yet, but clearly it's something I think that needs to be clarified and understood better.
Back in the olde timey days when folks just had land lines with which to communicate, the FCC made it illegal for third parties - yes, even carriers - to intercept and disclose conversations of their customers to third parties. Have we come all the way around to "let them use my personal communications as they see fit since they have it anyway?" I never thought I would see relatively sophisticated users, such as several of those contributing here, say "I do nothing wrong so I don't care who uses my data and for what purpose." Yikes.
pj1000 said:
Back in the olde timey days when folks just had land lines with which to communicate, the FCC made it illegal for third parties - yes, even carriers - to intercept and disclose conversations of their customers to third parties. Have we come all the way around to "let them use my personal communications as they see fit since they have it anyway?" I never thought I would see relatively sophisticated users, such as several of those contributing here, say "I do nothing wrong so I don't care who uses my data and for what purpose." Yikes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to the Patriot act.
[Obligatory favorable statement about the Patriot Act]
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
I to agree with the carriers already know EVERYTHING we do. Whether we like it or not, that's how it works. But that takes place on THEIR end.
What I don't like is not knowing if it's secure. Main reason so many people were ticked their iphone were tracking them. Most knew it could be done, but the fact it stored that info on their phone with no encryption what-so-ever.
This is on OUR end now. The more ways to access everything we do, the greater the security risk.
If I get the choice, I'm definitely getting it off my phone. But if they prove it's without doubt secure? I still don't like it, but I'd feel a whole lot better about it. So what's the chance that will happen?
Sent from my páhhōniē
Here if yall want to know about CIQ. Good Read and good information for you to mull over. http://www.xda-developers.com/android/the-storm-is-not-over-yet-lets-talk-about-ciq/ Oh and MOST Devices that have this stupid thing on it that get root the first thing to get disabled is this little gem so I wouldn't worry about it too horribly much. I have seen a dev going around that strictly is going through phones that have it and removing it.
malickie said:
Here if yall want to know about CIQ. Good Read and good information for you to mull over. http://www.xda-developers.com/android/the-storm-is-not-over-yet-lets-talk-about-ciq/ Oh and MOST Devices that have this stupid thing on it that get root the first thing to get disabled is this little gem so I wouldn't worry about it too horribly much. I have seen a dev going around that strictly is going through phones that have it and removing it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good article...
Oh yea here is a link that I found over in the HTC Vivid section just in case CIQ ever does hit our device I would assume the same thing could be done to remove it from the SGSII....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1370541
@Kadin
Yea good article although a bit scary when you see all this thing does.
quarlow said:
Do you really think att needs that software to know your physical location? Does att need that to read your SMS? Know what numbers you dial?
Att could probably easily identify if you tether, or load a custom ROM on your phone. Its a matter of priority, and whether its worth the effort. Everything you do on your phone runs through their services. They know everything.
A program like that may make it easier for them to get the data, but I doubt it gives them any information that they couldn't get themselves if they really wanted it.
I don't see the big deal about it. What do I care if att knows where I am, who I call, and what I text, they already know all that. If att collecting data about how I use my phone leads to a better optimised data network, or better coverage then go for it.
What's next? People upset that google may be reading your Gmail? Or Comcast knowing what you watch on TV? Your credit card company knowing where you shop?
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the carrier can do all this already then you have to wonder why they have to put something like Carrier IQ on our phones.
Related
So i've just signed up for a cell phone plan, they said is unlimited social networking browsing, didn't look at the fine print and they said is just for non-smart phone only...
I talked to their technical support and it looks like they check the phone's IMEI to determine what phone/model i am running... so i'm wondering if there is a way i could either change/hide my IMEI so that i can browse facebook and twitter with my current plan.
I asked the technical support what's the different between a regular phone browsing and a smart phone browsing, they said it has to do with the data compression and such... if that's the case, is there an app out there that i could use to simulate non-smart phone browser?
Changing your IMEI is illegal. It's your mobile's ID. International ID. Stolen mobiles have a 00000 etc IMEI, for instance. Some phones when wiped lose their IMEI. You can change it, but you could get in trouble. It's also very hard. Normally, only certain operator shops can reflash your phone and RESTORE your IMEI. I know this since I had an issue with that. 0'ed IMEI due to reset.
If they check your IMEI I don't think any app will solve that. But I'm not the best person to point you in the right direction.
Hum... i also have my old Samsung F488, if is possible i could use that one's IMEI, since i own both phone.
You'd be passing one phone as another. As a rule, tampering with your IMEI is illegal and operators only rarely restore it, if you have documentation proving the phone is yours. They don't change it.
When a phone is stolen, the IMEI is wiped so it can't be traced. That's why they won't change it nor restore it just like that... I doubt you'll have any luck asking for IMEI transfer...
sucks... ok thanks
You can try... I just wouldn't expect it to work. My experience comes from Portuguese operators, but it's probably the same all around.
From what i read, is legal to change it in North America. Is just lame that i'm paying for 50$ plan, but can't do zero browsing with this ****. I think i will have to roll back to some 30$ plan and only do text messaging with my smart phone lol..
Well, then you could try. Good luck then!
Yea, well the question remain, how. LOL
At least here, you need specialized shops, not all operator shops can do that, ask the nearest where your phone can be flashed to change the IMEI
codenamezero said:
From what i read, is legal to change it in North America. Is just lame that i'm paying for 50$ plan, but can't do zero browsing with this ****. I think i will have to roll back to some 30$ plan and only do text messaging with my smart phone lol..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Disclaimer: I'm not from the U.S. so I might be wrong.
After some reading, there's no law in the U.S. that even talks about IMEIs, so technically it is legal to change it, however, since most if not all carriers changer certain things based on your IMEI I think that changing your IMEI would effectively violate your service contract (if they found out), so instead of trying to change your IMEI I'd go to your carrier and ask for an unlimited smartphone plan.
codenamezero said:
is there an app out there that i could use to simulate non-smart phone browser
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem here is not the app, it's the internet protocols that are used by different types of cellphones, see, dumb-phones use WAP as the internet protocol, whereas smartphones use plain HTTP.
Boy, I am sick of ignorant goofballs spewing 'It's illegal' with no facts whatsoever to back their opinion up.
IF IT IS ILLEGAL, TELL ME WHAT LAW IT VIOLATES OR SHUT UP!
Seriously, this is a valid question that goes to a host of privacy and fair use issues, and I cannot believe that no one has any facts to share. I could give a hoot less if you think that just because it is a serial number it is somehow forbidden by God that you should mess with it. Personally, I would love to have a smartphone without having to pay for wireless data. The country would be up in arms if the cable company decided to charge you extra because your TV is capable of receiving HD signal, so why are we such sheep that we all pony up for data plans we don't really need? Nearly everywhere I go with my phone, even in a rural state, has WiFi. I need a data plan like I need silk boxers.
OwenW71 said:
Boy, I am sick of ignorant goofballs spewing 'It's illegal' with no facts whatsoever to back their opinion up.
IF IT IS ILLEGAL, TELL ME WHAT LAW IT VIOLATES OR SHUT UP!
Seriously, this is a valid question that goes to a host of privacy and fair use issues, and I cannot believe that no one has any facts to share. I could give a hoot less if you think that just because it is a serial number it is somehow forbidden by God that you should mess with it. Personally, I would love to have a smartphone without having to pay for wireless data. The country would be up in arms if the cable company decided to charge you extra because your TV is capable of receiving HD signal, so why are we such sheep that we all pony up for data plans we don't really need? Nearly everywhere I go with my phone, even in a rural state, has WiFi. I need a data plan like I need silk boxers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two things:
1) Since nobody's been anything but a nice person trying to help I think your reaction is way out of line, no need to YELL or BOLD your opinion in order to be heard.
2) If you had taken a moment to read the entire post you would've read this:
Akath19 said:
After some reading, there's no law in the U.S. that even talks about IMEIs, so technically it is legal to change it, however, since most if not all carriers change certain things based on your IMEI I think that changing your IMEI would effectively violate your service contract (if they found out), so instead of trying to change your IMEI I'd go to your carrier and ask for an unlimited smartphone plan.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So that answers your question in a very civil and decent way, but since you might not get it that way, here's the answer in your own style:
THERE IS NO F-ING LAW THAT EVEN TALKS ABOUT IMEI, SO NO LAW = LEGAL
I was just stating an opinion regarding the fact that changing your IMEI is kinda immoral considering that that practice is done mostly on stolen phones in order to use them on any network after they've been reported.
So to put it plainly there is no law that forbids it and it'd be nice if you read posts before attacking the posters.
While I agree that yelling is normally in bad taste, I feel strongly that someone needs to be yelling about this. In every forum I go to, every time this question is asked we get flooded with meaningless opinions, nearly every one of them saying that even thinking it is illegal. Rubbish. Up until very recently, IMEI numbers stood a good chance of not even being unique, and even now many may not be, since phone manufacturers are assigned blocks of numbers, and it is up to them to govern the assignment of the IMEI to the hardware.
As it stands, GSM operators in the US are using your IMEI number to make sure you are being charged for a data plan if you use a smartphone, even if you don't want a data plan.
I, for one, would like my provider to think I'm using a RAZR or any other dumbphone, and the only way to do it is to spoof my IMEI. I don't believe it is illegal to do so, although my provider would surely be peeved. iPhone users can do this with a bit of software.
Here is what I'd like to see from this conversaation:
1. Establish conclusively that IMEI changes are legal.
2. Discuss methods by which a new IMEI could be entered in software.
3. Avoid discussing how the carriers may feel about it. We already rooted, right?
Again, I apologize for ruffling feathers by shouting. I hope the message came across to those with opinions but no facts. This is a legitimate question of fair-use, and I'd love to hear from someone who has facts regarding the legality of this idea. Even better, I'd welcome a way to actually accomplish the change.
Thank you for your answer, I honestly thought that you were just flaming for flaming's sake.
Sadly there's not much info anywhere besides a lawyer's office, after some serious digging, most people seem to think that changing an IMEI in the US is a Class C felony, however no one knows exactly where is that law written.
I'd also advise you on asking these kinds of things in the forum 'cause I know people have been banned for asking these kinds of things. I know that's stupid but some mods in the forum think that just asking a question about something illegal in certain countries constitutes a felony in an of itself.
So, to sum things up:
1) Apparently it's illegal to change your IMEI, but I'd consult with a lawyer to know exactly where is that written.
2) People in general think that just talking about illegal activities is a felony so I'd expect much hate towards you for asking.
3) IMEI's in smartphones are not software based, meaning if you want to change it you'd need to isolate the chip on which they're located and change it with dongles and flasher tools (not software)
Sorry that I can't say anymore but I'm not from the US so that's all the info I can gather.
I do know in the uk it is a arrestable offense to change a phones imei no., dont know about anywere else.
I found a seller on eBay that changed my IMEI for $50. I bet he can give you any IMEI you want. He claims to change the mother board with that of a different IMEI but im sure he is just using the flash tools I read about wile doing google searches. The flash tools are physical items that connect into the phones usb port and or directly to the chip on the motherboard. They cost about $500. There are also ways to do it via software on some phones especially androids but there is more risk involved for the do it your selfer.
I am such a do it your selfer and after reading about it for 12 hours I decided that id have to read about it for 3 more before I felt comfortable and even then the risk of bricking was greater then having the pros do it for me. This high risk level is why you dont see much talk of the processes in the forums online. The pros know its best to use the hardware so they buy it and protect the process by not disclosing it online. The talk of its process that I did find on line involves so many abbreviations and new terms that I was heavily burdened with not understanding.
The bottom line is unless you plan on doing it for an income its not worth learning how to do.
Now back to the original question. Will the internet work on a smart phone if you change the IMEI to that of a none smart phone? Will you be stuck using the carriers dumbed down WAP internet or have no internet at all? Maybe you could run some sort of dumb phone simulator to gain access to a dumb phones web browser program?
For those of you that want to rag on me for reviving an old thread. Know that many people like my self searching google for knowledge end up here and will see my post. Thats how I got here so this thread is not so dead after all. Threads that start with a real question need more real answers.
---------- Post added at 01:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 PM ----------
Here is a software example of how to change the IMEI of a cretin android.
I doubt this app works on any other model.
http://changemtkimei.blogspot.com/
As I remember, I lost the IMEI (actually it was replaced by something like 00499010640000) on my Samsung Galaxy i9000 and Galaxy Tab P6200 when I SIM unlocked them, so at least on Samsung this is possible, the IMEI was stored in the EFS files.
Ive searched the forums but no information about how to remove Carrier IQ from the Galaxy S II.
Anybody have a link or any info.
thnx.
This phone doesn't have it.
Sent from my páhhōniē
there's no CIQ on the Galaxy S II? how did you come to know?
JonGarrett said:
there's no CIQ on the Galaxy S II? how did you come to know?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What leads you to believe that there is CIQ on our phone? I know it's on the Skyrocket as you can see IQAgent running in 'Running Services' under Android System but there's no confirmation that the SGS2 has it.
I also read that we dont have CIQ but from what I read, you can't easily remove it. It requires some really advanced coding knowledge to remove it...but thats just based on what I read.
What's CIQ?
http://gizmodo.com/5863849/your-android-phone-is-secretly-recording-everything-you-do
Carrier IQ is spyware found on some Android phones. Nearly all Sprint models, and newer AT&T models and updates.
The Captivate and Infuse Froyo don't currently have it.
Official Infuse Gingerbread will have it (Already does from Rogers, the AT&T leaks do too).
The ****rocket has it.
The I777 does NOT have it currently. A future update may have it.
Entropy512 said:
Carrier IQ is spyware found on some Android phones. Nearly all Sprint models, and newer AT&T models and updates.
The Captivate and Infuse Froyo don't currently have it.
Official Infuse Gingerbread will have it (Already does from Rogers, the AT&T leaks do too).
The ****rocket has it.
The I777 does NOT have it currently. A future update may have it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the breakdown, much appreciated.
Entropy512 said:
The I777 does NOT have it currently. A future update may have it.
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Click to collapse
This brings two questions to mind; first, has anyone checked the stock UCKJ4 version for CIQ, and second, how would one determine if a future update did have CIQ?
Rescue9 said:
This brings two questions to mind; first, has anyone checked the stock UCKJ4 version for CIQ, and second, how would one determine if a future update did have CIQ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are a couple of telltale items in the initramfs and /system. Also CIQ frequently does show in the logcat (It does on Infuse leaks)
Kadin said:
What leads you to believe that there is CIQ on our phone? I know it's on the Skyrocket as you can see IQAgent running in 'Running Services' under Android System but there's no confirmation that the SGS2 has it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didnt suspect anything only after reading several articles about it and how it affects Samsung & HTC phones I wondered if I did since the Galaxy S II on AT&T is one of the latest Samsung phones.
Since I dont have it, Im not worried anymore (kinda like waiting to see if you tested positive for an STD lol)
+Thanks button for your help.
Our phones don't have it right now. For more information and a detection and removal tool look St this post from lifehacker http://lifehacker.com/5863895/carri...everything-on-your-phone-and-how-to-remove-it.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk
termleech said:
Our phones don't have it right now. For more information and a detection and removal tool look St this post from lifehacker http://lifehacker.com/5863895/carri...everything-on-your-phone-and-how-to-remove-it.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for sharing
Skyrocket bad?
Interesting. The AT&T Galaxy S II, the original one, doesn't have Carrier IQ installed in it? But the new AT&T Galaxy S II SkyRocket, their new LTE version, does have Carrier IQ installed in it?
Glad I didn't "upgrade"
glitchsys said:
Interesting. The AT&T Galaxy S II, the original one, doesn't have Carrier IQ installed in it? But the new AT&T Galaxy S II SkyRocket, their new LTE version, does have Carrier IQ installed in it?
Glad I didn't "upgrade"
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+1
How true.....
I actually considered it hard but read a lot here from the very well informed members and quickly came to my senses.
This thread brings up an interesting question: If AT&T pushes a firmware update that contains CIQ to our phones, would that give us the the right to a free phone exchange and/or get out of contract?
Many of us purchased the S2 knowing it did NOT have Carrier IQ. That was a conscience choice made by research, etc. If AT&T changes that without our prior approval and permission (which is implied when you purchase a phone that already has it), does that breach the "2 year contract"? Unless, of course, the Firmware update wouldn't apply until a user accepted that they are okay with data collection...
When you add in that CIQ transmits data back to *someone*, and that we (as consumers) are probably having to pay for the data being used (either via a 4g data plan or home internet service) without our explicit permission, does that give us the right to terminate the contract without an ETF?
I'm looking over the "customer service summary" I signed when I got this phone, and it doesn't say anything whatsoever about collecting data (anonymous or otherwise) and sending it to anyone. I'm also skimming over the "wireless customer agreement" found on their website, and I can't seem to find anything there either concerning the collection of data from my device.
In other words, what right does AT&T have to invade my privacy, collect any data from me that isn't required for billing purposes, transmit that data to *anyone* party, etc?
Actually, looking this over, I don't think they'd be breaking their agreement/contract with me, but they likely would be violating my civil and constitutional rights. Interesting....
Take care
Gary
---------- Post added at 09:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 PM ----------
The more I think about this, the more frightening it becomes. I sometimes make purchases, with a credit card, via the web browser on my phone. That's encrypted with an SSL certificate, but CIQ see's the data BEFORE the encryption. I wonder if my credit card numbers have been sent to samsung or at&t.
I once took a nude photo of my wife with my phone. I wonder if that was transmitted to AT&T and used by some employee for "self-gratification."
I FREQUENTLY have used the encrypted email on my mobile device to discuss extremely sensitive and confidential business secrets. Of course, CIQ see's the unencrypted messages. I guess they really aren't secrets anymore.
... I think I'm going to be calling AT&T tomorrow morning... Perhaps it's time for me to move to a carrier that doesn't install rootkit spybots on their phones.
garyd9 said:
This thread brings up an interesting question: If AT&T pushes a firmware update that contains CIQ to our phones, would that give us the the right to a free phone exchange and/or get out of contract?
Many of us purchased the S2 knowing it did NOT have Carrier IQ. That was a conscience choice made by research, etc. If AT&T changes that without our prior approval and permission (which is implied when you purchase a phone that already has it), does that breach the "2 year contract"? Unless, of course, the Firmware update wouldn't apply until a user accepted that they are okay with data collection...
When you add in that CIQ transmits data back to *someone*, and that we (as consumers) are probably having to pay for the data being used (either via a 4g data plan or home internet service) without our explicit permission, does that give us the right to terminate the contract without an ETF?
I'm looking over the "customer service summary" I signed when I got this phone, and it doesn't say anything whatsoever about collecting data (anonymous or otherwise) and sending it to anyone. I'm also skimming over the "wireless customer agreement" found on their website, and I can't seem to find anything there either concerning the collection of data from my device.
In other words, what right does AT&T have to invade my privacy, collect any data from me that isn't required for billing purposes, transmit that data to *anyone* party, etc?
Actually, looking this over, I don't think they'd be breaking their agreement/contract with me, but they likely would be violating my civil and constitutional rights. Interesting....
Take care
Gary
---------- Post added at 09:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 PM ----------
The more I think about this, the more frightening it becomes. I sometimes make purchases, with a credit card, via the web browser on my phone. That's encrypted with an SSL certificate, but CIQ see's the data BEFORE the encryption. I wonder if my credit card numbers have been sent to samsung or at&t.
I once took a nude photo of my wife with my phone. I wonder if that was transmitted to AT&T and used by some employee for "self-gratification."
I FREQUENTLY have used the encrypted email on my mobile device to discuss extremely sensitive and confidential business secrets. Of course, CIQ see's the unencrypted messages. I guess they really aren't secrets anymore.
... I think I'm going to be calling AT&T tomorrow morning... Perhaps it's time for me to move to a carrier that doesn't install rootkit spybots on their phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All valid questions, granted though they will take you a long while to get answered but are very much worth the trouble.
/Apply tinfoil hat/
Now with all the power that the corporations in this REPUBLIC have I wonder who can access this information...
/removes tinfoil hat/
here is an idea.. Could carrierIQ be what allows carriers to see whether a phone is tethering or not? Just an idea? If iPhone had it also and some Androids it would make sense that this is what could have helped carriers see whether the phone is tethering. I could be just talking out of my ass as well. But it was a thought that ran through my head.
monkey28rb said:
here is an idea.. Could carrierIQ be what allows carriers to see whether a phone is tethering or not? Just an idea? If iPhone had it also and some Androids it would make sense that this is what could have helped carriers see whether the phone is tethering. I could be just talking out of my ass as well. But it was a thought that ran through my head.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CIQ won't say what data is and isn't being collected, but refers questions to the carriers. The carriers are extremely vague on what data, exactly, is being collected. In some cases, they don't even answer that specific question, but instead respond with something like "whatever data we do collect, we are keeping private."
All we know for certain is what could _potentially_ be collected with the CIQ rootkit. It's been determined that this it could collect every single element of data that exists in your phone. It runs as root, so there really aren't any limits. While I doubt it's doing this, it could theoretically turn on the phone's microphone and camera and send live audio and video streams of everything happening near the phone. It could be recording and sending the data from every sensor in the phone. Every byte of data that enters into the phone could be stored and forwarded.
Could that be used to detect tethering? Of course. That's really not the scary part. Here's some more scary ways this can be abused:
Some sicko at AT&T might have a video of my wife and I having sex last night because she left her phone near the bed.
AT&T employees and their affiliates might have access to any piece of data I ever entered on my phone. That means they could steal my identity with ease.
Because the phone has location data (even if I tell the phone that it should NOT forward it for any purpose), some person at AT&T (or an affiliate) might know when my wife and I aren't home and could break into my house.
When I go to the bathroom, my phone is usually with me. This rootkit could turn on the camera and be "watching" while I take a dump. (Good thing the phone doesn't have a sense of smell.. heh)
When I go to the doctor, my phone is usually with me. I guess AT&T could know my entire medical history, too. (I wonder if they'd be bound by HIPPA privacy laws.)
This goes WAYYYYYY beyond them knowing how a person might be abusing a data plan. Based on what we DO know, it's possible that all the above crazy scenerios are possible (even if they are unlikely.) This goes beyond "Big Brother."
We know what CIQ is capable of. What we aren't being told is how it's actually being used, or why a system was designed to be capable of so much if it isn't used in that fashion.
Am I being paranoid? Sure. I think I'm justified in this case.
Gary
Glad Sprint is taking the lead and getting rid of this!
http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_new...s-disabling-controversial-carrier-iq-software
+1 I don't think the photon has it anyway but good stuff sprint and thanks for the link!
Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk
kwazytazz said:
+1 I don't think the photon has it anyway but good stuff sprint and thanks for the link!
Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Photon doesn't have it, never has.
Another good reason to root and use custom ROMs
Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk
kusanagi-sama said:
The Photon doesn't have it, never has.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, I believe that stock Photon does have it. Lookout Security has a Carrier IQ detector in the marketplace. I found Carrier IQ on my stock photon. I installed cybik's CM7 and voila, no more Carrier IQ.
I have 3 issues here, #1. Carrier IQ and Sprint are clearly lying and this guy proved it. Maybe yes, they only use the network part of it, but they are clearly collecting everything else.
#2 No one ever asked me? If you asked me, I could make a choice (I likely would not, but still.)
#2. I have all my banking information that I access and other passwords from my Photon. So any hacker with 1/2 a brain could collect the same file and act as if he were me?
dsims7_2000 said:
I have 3 issues here, #1. Carrier IQ and Sprint are clearly lying and this guy proved it. Maybe yes, they only use the network part of it, but they are clearly collecting everything else.
#2 No one ever asked me? If you asked me, I could make a choice (I likely would not, but still.)
#2. I have all my banking information that I access and other passwords from my Photon. So any hacker with 1/2 a brain could collect the same file and act as if he were me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the photon doesnt have any known version of ciq on it... seriously guys im friends with k0nane... i had him check it out... not saying there isnt some new ****.. but all current forms of ciq that are documented are not here
1) cant always believe what you see.. i mean honetsly i dont know treve.. but as a dev i respect what hes done.. but he isnt playing on alevel feild IMO.. he is using a rooted phone and he isnt looking thru ciq's logs its adb logcat which... logs everything
#2 part one P i know im sorry im a jerk) you signed sprints contract right? did you really read all the terms of service? i sure as hell didnt but how much you wanna bet there is something in teh contract that says they can do that? :O
#2 part 2 there is only 2 ways this is gunna happen.. someone has a cell tower mocked up to intercept your cell signal and catch teh packets as they pass... or.. someone has physical access to your phone... at which point its moot because from what im guessing you save all your passwords etc?
rockettman said:
Actually, I believe that stock Photon does have it. Lookout Security has a Carrier IQ detector in the marketplace. I found Carrier IQ on my stock photon. I installed cybik's CM7 and voila, no more Carrier IQ.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tested my phone with Lookout Security and the other app that tests for this. The Photon DOES NOT have Carrier IQ.
kusanagi-sama said:
I tested my phone with Lookout Security and the other app that tests for this. The Photon DOES NOT have Carrier IQ.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you using a custom ROM? Unless you are on stock, you probably won't see it. The stock photon, does in fact have CIQ on it.
how about you go through init.rc and teh smali in services.jar and tell me that
trustgo mobile security cannot find it.
lookout says i do not have it
voovoo carrier iq detector says no
kinetoo carrier detector says NOT DETECTED
anti-ciq says " no needs to protect your phone"
ciq process killer says its not active
carrier iq cleaner told me congratulations your device does not have carrier iq
for ****s sake people.... take teh tinfoil off your head.. no one is gunna steal your gummy bears...
P.S these are all apps freely available on the market...
if you really want ill take teh time and learn how to make an app it will stop carrier iq on ths photon and atrix. but cuz of the time needed ill be charging 47 bucks per download let me know i i have any interested buyers...
rockettman said:
Are you using a custom ROM? Unless you are on stock, you probably won't see it. The stock photon, does in fact have CIQ on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^ is sadly mistaken
Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk
rockettman said:
Are you using a custom ROM? Unless you are on stock, you probably won't see it. The stock photon, does in fact have CIQ on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, this was and still is the stock ROM. Why don't you pay attention to what Shabby says, unless you're trying to troll.
Stock Photon does not have carrier IQ.
There is a small chance there might be some really new version of CIQ that nobody knows about, but no currently known versions of CIQ exist on a stock Photon.
@Shabby and your original post.
1. You are NOT a jerk. Right or wrong, everyone here has opinions. We collect them and try to get a solution to fix something, learn something, make something easier or look better. This does not make you a jerk.
#2 Part one: You are ALMOST correct. When I originally got Sprint, I did not read the contract. I signed it and grabbed the phone. When I got Evo, I did read the ENTIRE contract (Unlimited Data has it's limitations, such as using Photon as web server, streaming Porn website........)
#2 Part two: What about the phone hacking scandal in the UK? would that not go against what you stated? I mentione it because it's in the news today.
gsm has had a major exploit for a long time. ive yet to hear of anyone doing taht with cdma.. not to say that it cant happen... but really you have a much better chance of being phished... the odds that someone is smart enough to be able to build a fake tower, program it, collect your info and then use it (without being caught) in your local area (im talking within a mile of you at most)... just seems rather unlikley ya know?
and im sure in teh contract or in teh terms of service you agree to "network services" which can and do include everything we could possibly imagine :/
as for the jerk bit it was more of a reference that you had 2 2's in your first post and skipped #3
just read up on the uk stuff sounds like it was a hack done on the voicemail of a little girl who went missing... my guess is that the "media" doesnt understand teh difference between hacking a phone and dialing it and pressing every combination to get into her voicemail....
DAMM YOU JERK!!!!
I assume your GSM comment is because GSM is Global, so it has a much larger window for hackers. South Korea has WCDMA, but our CDMA cannot use it (Well, my Evo did not work!)
I did read the entire contract, have to admit, I did not understand 99.999999% of it. Just the what you can and cannot do with unlimted data.
As for the UK thing, now thinking, you are again correct. Anyone with a little time on their hands could get into your voicemail.
gsm has had a lot of flaws in it for a long time
also those gsm bastards got you again.. wcdma is a gsm technoloy cdma and cdma2000 are the ones most commonly used over here for "cdma"
Back on Topic, I would really like to see where this goes, I have personal reasons. Remember Apple got caught with their pants down and it dropped off. Now Carrier IQ.................
I have been in IT for over 25 years. All it takes is one bad Computer Operator at Sprint..............Granted, the chances of one of them getting MY data, looking at my Bank of America logon and PW, PowerBall or MegaMillion is better.
good to know and a valid reason to root root my phone!
Just tested my stock photon, no carrier IQ. Heres the proof i am rooted but i doubt that has anything to do with it
Sent from my MB855 using xda premium
What's up guys! I got this pretty cool gig in Japan that I will start in mid-May that's going to last a year at the very least (the American working now with the company said they wanted him to come back for another year, but he had other things here he wanted to pursue.) Anyway, I have quite a few questions and concerns regarding my cell phone service here, as well as my future service in Japan.
Here in the US:
I am not one to resist change... hell, I'm moving halfway across the world (Hiroshima) in a couple of months... but if there is one thing I do not like doing it is most definitely getting a new cell phone number! I have a five week (paid) vacation in December, and I would like to come back to my good ol' T-Mobile HD2 for that month and if I am only on the job for a year, I'd like to come back to the same number. But that's not important, and I don't want anyone to focus on that (like I know some will initially), the question is what is the cheapest way I can go about keeping my current number? As I mentioned, I am currently with T-Mobile, so I'm thinking the cheapest and easiest way to go would be to switch to prepaid after my contract expires? Any other suggestions?
Over there in Japan:
This is the more complex situation. I'm still reading up on the wireless phone service in Japan, and it is quite a bit different from the system we have over here in the States, so if someone catches me saying something incorrect, please let me know!
Anyway, I want an Android phone. Keitai are unique and all, but when it comes down to it, I'd like to be able to keep sync my contacts to Google and use SMS (possibly) to communicate with my family and friends here in the US. The next time I'm in contact with the American who works for the company I'll be with, I will ask him what service he and his co-workers use... though I suspect it's SoftBank, because I believe he has an iPhone. If that's the case, the question of my service provider will (reluctantly) be answered as, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, SoftBank users can talk to other SoftBank users free while being charged when talking to people on other providers no matter what time of day? That being said, for those with the experience, how important is it to use the same provider as the majority of the people you talk to? According to subscription numbers, SoftBank greatly trails docomo in number of subscribers, however I have read online that most people I would likely be communicating with will have SoftBank... very confusing.
The next major question is, of course, which Android phone should I purchase? This is a difficult question because if I am only over there for a year, I would like to be able to bring the phone back to the US and use it. I also would prefer buying a phone that has a decent-sized developer community... Obviously the Galaxy Nexus and the Galaxy S II HD LTE come to mind. The international versions of the phones are able to run on UTMS 2100, which (correct me if I'm wrong) means I should be golden for 3G use with AT&T/T-Mobile AND docomo/SoftBank (I don't really care about LTE at this point of its life.) If all that is correct, then it comes down to which phone to buy... the Galaxy Nexus is sweet and all, but the Galaxy S II HD LTE is better equipped... and I'll be running CyanogenMod 9 on whichever one I buy anyway, so software is not an issue. Decisions...
Last, but certainly the most important question I have (in my opinion), is what will be the cheapest way to communicate with my family and friends in the US while I am away for a year? I haven't done much research into this yet, but what are your opinions... Skype, Google Voice... there are some Internet texting options available on the market that may give me the ability to text back and forth, but some of those apps are proprietary. Does anyone know any apps that will give me the ability to text people who don't use the app or have dumbphones? I have no problem spending a bit of money, but I'd like to find the cheapest way possible to keep in contact with loved ones.
I know this is super long, but I want to be thorough in my research and understanding of the environment I will be moving to within the next couple of months. Thanks for taking the time to read and response!
I think the cheapest way to keep your number would be to buy a dumb phone and get the most minimum plan you can. I would buy a nexus because you can use it on t-mobile when you get back. I am not 100% sure, but i think gosms is free texting that can text anyone, regardless of app use. For people with smartphones, a great voip app is viber.
Get your new number and keep your old one. then quickly blast out the new number via SMS to all your contacts. You can use something like what's app to keep in touch for free. All you need is a 3G phone while you are in Japan.
WhatsApp is great, but it's only really good for sending messages to people that have smartphones and data plans. If someone has a smart phone and data plan, you can easily convince them to install the app, because it's unobtrusive and the messages act like text messages. But it won't help you communicate with everyone.
lowandbehold
I think the cheapest way to keep your number would be to buy a dumb phone and get the most minimum plan you can. I would buy a nexus because you can use it on t-mobile when you get back. I am not 100% sure, but i think gosms is free texting that can text anyone, regardless of app use. For people with smartphones, a great voip app is viber.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use GO SMS right now and they have a proprietary messaging feature called GO Chat that only others with the app can use. Viber sounds almost exactly what I'm looking for, except I won't be able to use it with my mom, as she has a dumbphone.
My gripe with the Galaxy Nexus is the lack of a microSD card, another reason why I'm considering buying the Galaxy S II HD LTE, which apparently AT&T will be bringing to us over here as the Skyrocket HD. That would make purchasing one easier and cheaper than buying from overseas.
androidapk.net
Get your new number and keep your old one. then quickly blast out the new number via SMS to all your contacts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By new number, do you mean my Japanese phone number?
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions &
Read the Forum Rules Ref Posting
Moving to Q&A
Set up a google voice account. That's a simple way to be texting anyone you know. Just make sure they have that number. As far as keeping your stateside number, I believe Tmob has a service where you can have your line lay dormant for some period of time. I don't know how long for or what the cost is or anything like that. I think I remember that being an option when I had them.
Jesushaxyou said:
Set up a google voice account. That's a simple way to be texting anyone you know. Just make sure they have that number. As far as keeping your stateside number, I believe Tmob has a service where you can have your line lay dormant for some period of time. I don't know how long for or what the cost is or anything like that. I think I remember that being an option when I had them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've done a ton of reading on Google Voice today and I may have come up with a solution, though I don't know if it will work, as I've never used Google Voice before.
It's my understanding that when a number is ported to Google Voice, it ends the service with whoever the provider is, and I do not have to renew service with another cell phone provider in order to keep my number (correct me on this if I'm wrong.) Ironically, my contract with T-Mobile ends a couple days before I am supposed to fly over to Japan.
So when my contract is up, all I simply need to do is port my current number over to Google Voice and I will have the ability to send and receive texts to and from (and here's an important question) anyone... or... only those who have data plans? Someone with a dumbphone or without Google Voice will be able to text me, right?
As for making and receiving calls, I'm look at GrooVe IP as a way to accomplish this while being able to keeping my current cell phone number. Does anyone have any experience with that app?
You can text anyone with texting on their plan from GVoice. A buddy of mine has a feature phone and he receives them just fine.
I'm posting this here because the Note II is a prime example, but we could also look to the Galaxy Nexus, which is two software versions behind and can't really even be called a Nexus at this point.
I helped my boss set up a Note II and was showing him some features I thought he would like. The first one was the "blocking mode" (do not disturb), which my AT&T model has, as does the International model. It was absent. It first, I thought I just wasn't seeing it or it was moved, but a google search confirmed my fears. I learned later that Verizon removed this because they have a competing service.
Then, I was looking for the S Planner widget (the full screen calendar version) because, as an executive, it was a good fit for him. It was also missing. I'm still baffled by that one.
There is also the branding, including the home button. Verizon seems to treat their phones like Stock Cars these days. The bloat, the missing features (HTC Hub on HTC devices), the numerous modifications, etc.
AT&T is far from perfect. They put a lot of bloat on their phones. But out of all of the Android phones I have bought in the last few years (since they restored "unknown Sources"), I have not noticed them actually removing a lot of features. They did remove screen modes from their version of the GSIII, which was confusing, but otherwise they have just been content with adding bloat that you can disable.
I know Verizon has great coverage, but does it ever really bother you that they remove/modify so much functionality on the phone? Sound off in my poll. I'm curious if I'm the only one who hates Verizon for this. To me, it wouldn't even feel like my phone. It would feel like Verizon's.
TLDR
Removed features (blocking mode, S Planner Widget)
Nascar envy (Logos everywhere)
Severely delayed updates
It sucks but what you gonna do, you know? It's VZW.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
Use to bother me until I learned to unlock and root. Had the gnex prior to the GN II and actually forgot what stock was like until I had to re lock and unroot to sell it. Forgot how limited the phone was.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
koreankabachy said:
Use to bother me until I learned to unlock and root. Had the gnex prior to the GN II and actually forgot what stock was like until I had to re lock and unroot to sell it. Forgot how limited the phone was.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't it say something when the first thing you have to do with your new phone is root it and install your own software, though?
I just bought an Optimus G from AT&T. It had a lot of bloat, but I disabled it all and I'm happy with it otherwise. At least all of the intended features are there.
greyhulk said:
I'm posting this here because the Note II is a prime example, but we could also look to the Galaxy Nexus, which is two software versions behind and can't really even be called a Nexus at this point.
I helped my boss set up a Note II and was showing him some features I thought he would like. The first one was the "blocking mode" (do not disturb), which my AT&T model has, as does the International model. It was absent. It first, I thought I just wasn't seeing it or it was moved, but a google search confirmed my fears. I learned later that Verizon removed this because they have a competing service.
Then, I was looking for the S Planner widget (the full screen calendar version) because, as an executive, it was a good fit for him. It was also missing. I'm still baffled by that one.
There is also the branding, including the home button. Verizon seems to treat their phones like Stock Cars these days. The bloat, the missing features (HTC Hub on HTC devices), the numerous modifications, etc.
AT&T is far from perfect. They put a lot of bloat on their phones. But out of all of the Android phones I have bought in the last few years (since they restored "unknown Sources"), I have not noticed them actually removing a lot of features. They did remove screen modes from their version of the GSIII, which was confusing, but otherwise they have just been content with adding bloat that you can disable.
I know Verizon has great coverage, but does it ever really bother you that they remove/modify so much functionality on the phone? Sound off in my poll. I'm curious if I'm the only one who hates Verizon for this. To me, it wouldn't even feel like my phone. It would feel like Verizon's.
TLDR
Removed features (blocking mode, S Planner Widget)
Nascar envy (Logos everywhere)
Severely delayed updates
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Going off of your list, because yeah it was tl;dr:
Splanner widget might just be broken (its in the rom). Blocking mode doesn't work on Verizon (afaik).
Logos do suck. Samsung is slow on updates already.
Also, I compiled 4.2.1 for my Gnex. I still call it a Nexus.
You know what, I use to be a strong and proud supporter of VZW. I've been with this company for over 10 years now and over the last 5 years i have progressively become more and more displeased with my service. Yes there coverage is the best in the nation. However, in my case i live in NJ, all 4 major cell phone providers cover the entire state of NJ. I hardly ever leave this state unless its going to one of the surrounding cities (NYC PHL DC) and those places are all covered by all major cellphone providers.
With all the limitations VZW puts on the phones, I do believe I will be changing carriers in 2 years (as i just upgraded both my lines tot he note 2). As of now, i want to kick my own butt for upgrading/extending my contract i should of switched when i had the chance.
I get what your saying and it pissed me off on those same exact points. I decided to live with it because I would have rooted for other mods anyway eventually, but probably not as fast. I couldn't wait to get the note 2 and decided to upgrade instead of waiting a few months and going to another carrier. Since this phone is worldwide I'm not worried about updates. I just won't be waiting for Verizon. I think I'll be content for longer with this phone and when I want the next big thing I'll wait till my contract is completely up and switch carriers. Sprint just got lte here so maybe it will be mature in a couple years.
Sent from my Note2 running cleanrom 4
Do you hate what AT&T does to your phones? My phone came with multi-window and didn't need to wait for an update to enable it. Maybe you should go complain to AT&T for not giving you multi-window at launch.
S-Planner, as mentioned is in the ROM, but not functional, and blocking mode, even when enabled, doesn't work. It's entirely possible that with an OTA, S-Planner will be fixed. Blocking mode may be network related. You know, since AT&T is GSM and Verizon is CDMA, but I doubt you've given that any thought.
Also, delayed updates? Yes, the Nexus has delayed updates, but it is still ahead of most other devices. Also, how long does AT&T take to update phones? You don't have a lot of room to talk there because they aren't so great in that department themselves. How long did the Infuse 4G take to get Gingerbread?
Does it suck, a little bit, but it's nothing to go and create a whining post about, especially if you don't even own the phone.
imnuts said:
Do you hate what AT&T does to your phones? My phone came with multi-window and didn't need to wait for an update to enable it. Maybe you should go complain to AT&T for not giving you multi-window at launch.
S-Planner, as mentioned is in the ROM, but not functional, and blocking mode, even when enabled, doesn't work. It's entirely possible that with an OTA, S-Planner will be fixed. Blocking mode may be network related. You know, since AT&T is GSM and Verizon is CDMA, but I doubt you've given that any thought.
Also, delayed updates? Yes, the Nexus has delayed updates, but it is still ahead of most other devices. Also, how long does AT&T take to update phones? You don't have a lot of room to talk there because they aren't so great in that department themselves. How long did the Infuse 4G take to get Gingerbread?
Does it suck, a little bit, but it's nothing to go and create a whining post about, especially if you don't even own the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, you need to chill out. This isn't a "Verizon vs AT&T" thread. I acknowledged that AT&T was far from perfect. It is my opinion, however, that Verizon has been much worse in this area lately. My experience being based on several years of service with both providers.
My role in my company puts me in a unique position to use phones from all of the carriers, so yes, I do have room to talk. I also have years of experience in mobility. I'm not "whining". I was asking for feedback from the community.
I suggest you check your attitude. This thread wasn't a personal attack against you or any other Verizon customer.
greyhulk said:
Okay, you need to chill out. This isn't a "Vegas rizon vs AT&T" thread. I acknowledged that AT&T was far from perfect. It is my opinion, however, that Verizon has been much worse in this area lately. My experience being based on several years of service with both providers.
My role in my company puts me in a unique position to use phones from all of the carriers, so yes, I do have room to talk. I also have years of experience in mobility. I'm not "whining". I was asking for feedback from the community.
I suggest you check your attitude. This thread wasn't a personal attack against you or any other Verizon customer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At least Verizon has never disabled sideloading. Carriers suck. All of them.
My post wasn't a personal attack, and really has the same basic tone as your OP. Your OP is essentially "VZW sux, let's all go to AT&T", I'm pointing out that AT&T isn't really all that much better, but you don't see people coming into AT&T forums and saying "AT&T sux, lets go to VZW". You pointed out a bunch of faults with Verizon, but seem to forget issues with AT&T. Their track record for OTA updates isn't that much better than VZW, significantly worse in some instances. How about network coverage? They do a good job of screwing their users on plans and plan features too. Your phone supports video chat over cellular, but your data plan doesn't. How is that different from removing/limiting software? Maybe I'll go create a thread in the AT&T Note 2 forum to voice all my complaints with AT&T service then...
imnuts said:
My post wasn't a personal attack, and really has the same basic tone as your OP. Your OP is essentially "VZW sux, let's all go to AT&T", I'm pointing out that AT&T isn't really all that much better, but you don't see people coming into AT&T forums and saying "AT&T sux, lets go to VZW". You pointed out a bunch of faults with Verizon, but seem to forget issues with AT&T. Their track record for OTA updates isn't that much better than VZW, significantly worse in some instances. How about network coverage? They do a good job of screwing their users on plans and plan features too. Your phone supports video chat over cellular, but your data plan doesn't. How is that different from removing/limiting software? Maybe I'll go create a thread in the AT&T Note 2 forum to voice all my complaints with AT&T service then...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, YOU INTERPRETED my thread as "VZW sux, let's all go to AT&T". You should probably take a moment to recognize that.
I'm not advocating for any carrier. I would prefer unlocked devices, if not for the lack of LTE. When AT&T had side-loading blocked, I hated them for it and yes, the Facetime over Cellular was a dik move, too.
But I also love Smartphones and these days, AT&T does much less damage to the device than Verizon (T-Mobile and Sprint treat them the best) and it's something I'm hoping that AT&T doesn't suddenly decide is okay (again).
Getting my hands on the Verizon Note II really drove it all home for me, thus my post here in the Verizon Note forums asking how other users felt about it.
greyhulk said:
Removed features (blocking mode, S Planner Widget)
Nascar envy (Logos everywhere)
Severely delayed updates
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In regards to this list
Dont care cause I wouldnt use these things.
the home button logo is annoying
AOSP roms are better than stock anyway.
Coverage and reliability of the network far outweigh the downside of an annoying logo. I wanted to switch to Tmobile cause of their pricing but tried a month and coverage was simply not good enough. Friends in my area that have ATT and Sprint complain about coverage all the time. In the end I agree with Adryn. All the carriers blow donkey. For me the least of the evils is VZW.
greyhulk said:
No, YOU INTERPRETED my thread as "VZW sux, let's all go to AT&T". You should probably take a moment to recognize that.
I'm not advocating for any carrier. I would prefer unlocked devices, if not for the lack of LTE. When AT&T had side-loading blocked, I hated them for it and yes, the Facetime over Cellular was a dik move, too.
But I also love Smartphones and these days, AT&T does much less damage to the device than Verizon (T-Mobile and Sprint treat them the best) and it's something I'm hoping that AT&T doesn't suddenly decide is okay (again).
Getting my hands on the Verizon Note II really drove it all home for me, thus my post here in the Verizon Note forums asking how other users felt about it.
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I interpreted your post to be the same as Imnuts mentioned.
So either your worded it poorly, or there is something in the water.
Clearly you are angry at Verizon and felt the need to vent. Yeah, I am not too pleased with them as well, but so be it. You make it sound like everything is a constant measured response to screw people. Blocking Mode wasn't blocked because of a competing service. It just doesn't work. Do you ask Samsung to recode it to be removed, or just hide it? I doubt they cared. They just told Samsung to deal with it. You can bring it back. It doesn't work on Verizon though. Splanner widget is probably an oversight, and time will tell.
HTC Hub isn't on devices because they SHUT DOWN THE SERVICE. https://www.htcsense.com/
Otherwise, who knows, maybe it would be there on future devices. That service too didn't entirely work right on Verizon and was very limited to the devices it supported everywhere else.
greyhulk said:
No, YOU INTERPRETED my thread as "VZW sux, let's all go to AT&T". You should probably take a moment to recognize that.
I'm not advocating for any carrier. I would prefer unlocked devices, if not for the lack of LTE. When AT&T had side-loading blocked, I hated them for it and yes, the Facetime over Cellular was a dik move, too.
But I also love Smartphones and these days, AT&T does much less damage to the device than Verizon (T-Mobile and Sprint treat them the best) and it's something I'm hoping that AT&T doesn't suddenly decide is okay (again).
Getting my hands on the Verizon Note II really drove it all home for me, thus my post here in the Verizon Note forums asking how other users felt about it.
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Sorry bro but I'm not sure this thread was necessary, and it was obviously not well received. Stick to the forums that have to do with your device.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
iphoneislame said:
Sorry bro but I'm not sure this thread was necessary, and it was obviously not well received. Stick to the forums that have to do with your device.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
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I'm not sure your post was necessary, either. How about if I just post where I want, mmkay?
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greyhulk said:
I'm not sure your post was necessary, either. How about if I just post where I want, mmkay?
Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2
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I'm reminded of a book....
How to Win Friends & Influence People
I'm thinking about going vzw and get a note 2... Or should I go att? :/
Sent from my EVO LTE using CMX
greyhulk said:
I'm not sure your post was necessary, either. How about if I just post where I want, mmkay?
Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2
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I think his post did seem necessary since you don't seem to get it. You point out good things about Att and trashed VZW. So others did the opposite. Everyone seems to have read your post that way. Perhaps you need to learn how to articulate your thoughts better.
OldManJames said:
I think his post did seem necessary since you don't seem to get it. You point out good things about Att and trashed VZW. So others did the opposite. Everyone seems to have read your post that way. Perhaps you need to learn how to articulate your thoughts better.
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Yeah, because the way everyone READ my post (I'm pretty sure you mean "interpreted") is my fault. I can't control when Verizon fanboys decide to be defensive. I posted a neutral poll with feedback from my experiences. I'm not the one trolling here. I suppose it's just easier to troll than to actually read my post and think for yourself.
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