Is there a known API or method of accessing phone side data from the webtop?
For example, while in webtop, new text messages are shown in a little pop-up. Obviously there is a way to get that data, but what if I would like to make an X app to read the text messages instead of using the mobile view (the UX for that isn't the best while in webtop mode).
Also, Firefox sends data back to the Webtop Connector when you close the webtop. Has anyone figured out how these things are accomplished, and if it's possible to use these methods?
I wanted to see if anyone else has done any exploration of this realm before I dive into it myself.
I would ask Lokifish, he is the resident Webtop guru. maybe he knows.
TS
Related
I was wondering about the possibilities of a chrome os replacing webtop on our photons. Since it is Linux based like webtop, could it be possible to relayed ubuntop with chrome os?(see ubuntop forum for elaboration) Either way I was just thinking it would be perfect since there's Eucharistic simple GUI for the os.
Sent from my Xoom using xda premium
I can't believe I didn't see this post til now, sorry. Your question is very valid and deserves an answer.
ChromeOS and Moto's Webtop are, at their core, a web based OS (think cloud computing) in functionality. Granted, ChromeOS would be much smaller and faster than Moto's Webtop but still has all the failings of cloud computing. Cloud (ChromeOS, Webtop and so on) are based on the premise that you will ALWAYS have a working internet connection. We (the world) all know that this is rarely ever that case. So the premise is flawed from the start. Let's look at a real world scenario.
You need to write a report for school or work and are using Cloud (ChromeOS, Webtop and so on). While working on the report your internet connection goes down. It's a cellular outage/ internet provider outage and you do not have an alternative connection. The webpages you have open are still there but with cloud you can no longer continue to write that report. Your document creation/editing is somewhere on that, now inaccessible, internet. I, on the other hand, am running a stand alone OS (webtop+/ubuntop). Like you, my webpages are still open but I can also continue to work on that report due to me not being tied to the internet for document creation/editing.
The argument could be made that you could always use an Android office suite to continue working which is true. Try doing any real document work in android, it's a real pain in the ass. I know, as almost all things related to the Evo Desktop PC project was done in android.
Lokifish Marz said:
I can't believe I didn't see this post til now, sorry. Your question is very valid and deserves an answer.
ChromeOS and Moto's Webtop are, at their core, a web based OS (think cloud computing) in functionality. Granted, ChromeOS would be much smaller and faster than Moto's Webtop but still has all the failings of cloud computing. Cloud (ChromeOS, Webtop and so on) are based on the premise that you will ALWAYS have a working internet connection. We (the world) all know that this is rarely ever that case. So the premise is flawed from the start. Let's look at a real world scenario.
You need to write a report for school or work and are using Cloud (ChromeOS, Webtop and so on). While working on the report your internet connection goes down. It's a cellular outage/ internet provider outage and you do not have an alternative connection. The webpages you have open are still there but with cloud you can no longer continue to write that report. Your document creation/editing is somewhere on that, now inaccessible, internet. I, on the other hand, am running a stand alone OS (webtop+/ubuntop). Like you, my webpages are still open but I can also continue to work on that report due to me not being tied to the internet for document creation/editing.
The argument could be made that you could always use an Android office suite to continue working which is true. Try doing any real document work in android, it's a real pain in the ass. I know, as almost all things related to the Evo Desktop PC project was done in android.
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Sorry to resurrect this. All of the above being said, would it be difficult to use the most current version of chromium OS for web top?
elessarelfstar said:
Sorry to resurrect this. All of the above being said, would it be difficult to use the most current version of chromium OS for web top?
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Even the latest Chrome OS is still mainly a cloud based system. For what programs that do have standalone functions they still fall short of what UbunTop offers. For example, GIMP and OpenOffice are long term "standards compliant" programs and supported on multiple platforms. ChromeOS also offers far less in the way of software choices when compared to UbunTop which can run most ARM compiled programs based on Debian.
The other factor that now has to be considered is the removal of Webtop support by Motorola. Support for Webtop and webtop replacements will disappear with the ICS update on all webtop enabled phones leaving the users with Android based tablet mirroring mode. Even if you were to replace Webtop with the latest ChromeOS, it will no longer function as soon as you move to ICS. In short Webtop OR ICS, can't have both. The same applies to ChromeOS as well.
Projects, like Ubuntu Installer, that use disk images and VNC will still function on ICS. The draw back to this is that you loose audio support and external device support like flashdrives. Another issue is how VNC interacts with the disk image. There is also the issue that using disk images on the Atrix and Photon have very limited support. A specific Kernel/ROM combination has to be used to even get it to function.
OK, This is a question for the devs: Is it possible to legitimately disable mobile view?
Apparently I installed/upgraded a few packages and broke it. I get the error "Could not acquire name on session bus" when i start webtop. I was thinking this is actually a blessing in disguise because that damn thing uses precious resources, and having the option to disable/enable it would make webtop all the more useful.
i can see why webtop dev isn't a high priority given the fact that it's a jaunty distro and you really can't do much with it.
you could try a dirty hack by looking in the /osh partition and deleting stuff
not sure which package broke the thing i wish i knew tho. seems like it broke after i installed libgdk-pixbuf while trying to install an aurora gtk engine deb
I'm pretty sure it gets called in the start-oshwt-1.sh script in /osh/usr/local/bin. I forget the name of the binary, but if you comment it out there it shouldn't open the mobile view.
I don't know what it would save you in resources though, my guess is not much since it seems like just a VNC viewer.
Caveat Emptor: edit those scripts at your own risk.
https://www.box.net/shared/tuj7vkxmeizv6j9ak4b4
Push to /osh/usr/local/bin
Warning this is not tested and may break web top. (Pull the original or rename)
sent from my AL60R!THM Atrix
So I've watched the ICS Motorola Webtop Beta 3.0 video and it may be me but it looks very similar to the Evo Desktop PC in concept and function. Considering that ICS wasn't even available this time last year this would have been the logical progression of the project. I'm not asking for Moto to send me a check but I'm waiting to see how the credits roll out. If the Sun here on Mars has baked my brain then feel free to say so.
Lokifish Marz said:
I'm not asking for Moto to send me a check but I'm waiting to see how the credits roll out.
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Wow
The check is in the mail.
CCallahan said:
The check is in the mail.
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So are you going to send it on their behalf?
Actually I've been in contact with Moto since the videos surfaced and am getting the "hot potato" treatment. All I'm looking for is to have a civil dialog with them about it. All I'm getting is being told I need to contact Department A by Department B after just being directly referred to Department B by Department A. I have even gone so far as to include the direct referral and names in my communications. You probably have a good idea as to how well that's working.
The odd thing is that with 200+ views nobody has said I should have my head checked. Is everybody on XDA being nice?
Interesting question, locki. Definitely a fair one. If I understand correctly, from watching the video (I had the volume down - A cold and a headache coming down so I'm trying to minimize the noises). In any case, your version looks to me like phone mirroring with a keyboard and a mouse. Not sure how it's set up (you probably said it in the video). But I don't think the ICS demo is a complete demo. This looks like he just reviewed the phone mirroring version, but didn't do a complete webtop review. Also, webtop on the current system is also pretty limited. From that video, I don't see much difference between the ICS and what we have on our phone, except that this is a proof of concept. In any case, you could say the same thing about a comparable presentation from the webtop experience on the mopho if you only show the the phone window usage. could also say the same thing about your ubuntop if you only show a limited version of the capabilities. I guess my point is I don't think you have a fair comparison at this point. But my head is stuffy and I am on my way to an early bedtime, so maybe I'm missing something...
I replaced the video of webtop 3.0 with one that shows webtop3.0 in use. I also have a copy of the ICS RAZR leak and osh (or anything related to that partition) is nowhere to be found. Neflix is obviously Netflix for tablets. The desktop look of Chrome appears to be a ui switch for the mobile chrome browser. If the ICS leak is anywhere near what the official release is, then the tech/android reports are correct that the new webtop is nothing more than modified tablet mode mirroring.
I'm not saying it's not good work. Had HCL Launcher, Chrome mobile browser and Netflix for tablets been out when I released Evo Desktop you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.
My other concern is if the leak I have and the videos are correct this does not bode well for Webtop becoming a true desktop with ICS like many had hoped.
So If I am understanding things correctly, the new webtop is just tweaked phone mirroring, as opposed to now where there are 2 operating systems running side by side. I guess ubuntop won't work on that system then. very disappointing.
As nice as Evo Desktop was there were tons of drawbacks. So I can tell you from experience that this is going to be a serious step backwards for "Webtop". Open up a mobile browser and visit a page that has flash based chat embedded. You cannot leave that page (view another page in another tab) because as soon as you leave the chat page tab everything gets suspended. When you go back to the chat page tab you have to log back in and start over.
Document editing will also be an issue as you have to use cloud based editors like Google Docs because to my knowledge none of the current office apps have that tablet switch needed change how the ui is rendered. When you combine this with the browser tabs issue and that Google Docs puts a fairly heavy load on the browser, you can say goodbye to any real doc editing.
What it comes down to is that many app devs are going to have to add the needed ui switch and changes to keep the new webtop from being trash. This will not be easy. I fought for months to just get a browser with a "desktop ui" look with no success. Even with thousands of users on the Evo project nobody would touch it. I ended up having to modify an existing browser to give my users a desktop look. Multiply that by how many commonly used apps that would need a ui switch and Moto is just asking for failure.
My other concern is what happens to the, now wasted, 1.3GB osh partition? The leak has no mention of it in the install script. It looks like it will still present but only accessible via vnc which has it's own issues and drawbacks.
Hello XDA Developers!
tl;dr I need either a solid, light OS replacement for Android 2.3 on my Atrix, or I need a video streaming and virtualization app with no lag that works between android devices and either windows or linux desktop.
First I'd like to say how impressed I am with you folks. Massive amounts of work most be done on a regular basis, and so I tip my hat to you in thanks for looking at my potential problem/question.
I've got two devices that I'd like to make some serious software changes to, one of them my Atrix (the other is a Flytouch Tablet ARM11 with Android 2.3, but that's for a different forum). Let me start by saying that I like to think of myself as very technically literate, but when it comes to linux I just don't have nearly as much experience as I do with windows/mac, and it is about to really show.
What I want to do is load a light Linux OS on these devices. Normally, if I was going to install a new windows kernel on a machine I would copy an ISO to a USB thumb drive and make the drive bootable (using the MS program Windows 7 USB/DVD maker), then startup the PC and either through the BIOS or by hitting the proper button during the startup sequence I would ask the PC to boot into the drive and begin the installation.
Questions:
What is the image file type for mobile OS's?
How would one choose the right type of linux OS for an Atrix?
What is the difference between flashing a ROM and installing and OS?
Why is it when I updated my phone recently that it became unrooted?
(and) Is there any way to revert this process to make rooting easier?
Is there any way to capture a video output (like a stream) and broadcast it to these mobile devices so I can avoid changing their software alltogether?
(and) Could I just remotely control another PC from the mobile device, letting it do all the actual computing?
Can I use the Webtop Dock as a monitor for my desktop if I can find the proper HDMI cable to connect it to the HDMI output on my desktop video card?
(and) Can I also connect the Micro USB and use the keyboard/mouse (hooked into my desktop motherboard) on it as well?
(and finally) Can I use my Atrix as a prototype omni-tool by docking it in a docking station, attaching various tools that work with a linux operating system (wide-spectrum ultrasound imaging, temperature monitors, vital monitors, electronic laser saw (USB) (with separate power attachment of course) and extendable, movable USB cameras?) and then strapping it onto my wrist with a cool leather bracer design?
My end-goal is to have all three of these devices on the same network, with the ability to seamlessly access my data between them. For example, if I'm working on a document, I'd like to be able to access the document in a document editing program across all the platforms (imagine google docs with multiple users) however with one MAJOR stipulation: I'll be on a local network with NO INTERNET ACCESS!
Briefly (to better help you understand just what I'm trying to do) I am a freelance archaeologist/deep sea explorer/ROV tinkerer about to do a series of surveys mostly by myself in some VERY remote locations. I'll have a Wi-Fi network to link all of my devices together running out of my boat, but it's only for data sharing between each other, and since Satellite Internet is a joke, I can't think of any way to get data out there, and I've decided to live without it while I'm away.
I have a webtop dock for my Atrix, and the environment developed by Motorola is far too restrictive. I've tried countless fixes to try and get the webtop2SD to work, but I must be doing something wrong (Maybe the latest update screwed it?). I think since I'd like to use some linux applications while on the mobile devices, I would rather install a custom OS for both.
OR (preffered)
Even more simply, I'd like to stream the video feed and remotely control my desktop PC (located on the boat) on the mobile devices, but with yet another stipulation: I can't have FPS lag (I usually get 1-2 FPS with all the virtualization and remote control apps I've tried). This would in some senses be the preferred option, since I really don't want to spend oodles of hours trying to get some program to work in a difficult, restricted environment like these mobile device's current OS's. Is there a good, non-lagging version of desktop virtualization for Android OS?
About that webdock: I can't seem to find a female-to-female micro HDMI cable anywhere on the internet, thought I did find one Micro HDMI extension cable, and bought it promptly. I could buy another, but cut the male ends off and splice the female parts together (**** just got kinky). But if I could, would this work?
Phew that was a lot! Again thanks so much for thinking for me!
I've personally never found any kind of remote desktop software that works without lag, but it might be possible to find some. Someone else might know what to tell you there.
After doing some basic searching, the only collaborative document solution that I've found has been Etherpad Lite. You could set up a desktop or laptop running linux as the server, and all the other devices on your small network could (theoretically) run a browser based client similar (but far less advanced) than Google Docs. This way, everything on your LAN/WLAN could access the application, if it's stout enough to support your needs.
https://github.com/Pita/etherpad-lite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collab...Real-time_collaborative_text_editing_software
Everything you're looking for just seems to be limited for Android, I wish you the best of luck.
I have always found Teamviewer great for remote PC control from my Atrix. They have a nice app and free license for home/personal use. I get minimal lag controlling my PC at home when at work, but that's over WiFi. Not very fast and pretty laggy if I am on data with my Atrix.
BTW............I can work on documents, transfer files to and from PC's and laptops, print documents on my wireless printer, etc. across my home network from my Atrix, all routed through a Netgear WNR3500L running stock firmware (dd-wrt actually slowed my network down and reduced WiFi range considerably, so I reverted to stock).
First, there is no "magic" within the lapdock device. It is a nice HDMI screen, a couple crappy input devices on the USB side, and a battery. The standard Moto software does recognise the usb device and do some software magic, but certainly you could use the dock on it's own w/o the phone.
As to completely replacing the /osh webtop OS that Motorola provides, that is challanging.
There are 2 basic ways to open it up though. Go to the developers subforum and look for webtop2sd and "full Debian".
Somebody did post recently with an attempt to fully replace the webtop OS. he was using gentoo, so look for that and you should find it. But I suspect it is early, and likely to be a significant WP.
As to learning all this ****. If you do some Linux developement or heavy hacking (which it kind of sounds like) you should set up a full full blown 'droid dev platform and start playing. It is big and bulky, but you will learn faster that way than just searbhing around.
EDIT: just reread your post that you are light on Linux. if you want to do anything more than just follow along, it might be a good idea to setup something like an Ubuntu and get familiar there. 'Droid is way different looking (it really basterdises things around) but yoiu need to know both if you want to play with webtop hacks.
Thanks all. I'll look around again to see if I can find the threads you mentioned. I've tried Webtop2SD but to no success so far.
Thanks again.
Greetings,
At my office, we rotate after-hours email monitoring but some of the older guys are apprehensive about getting cell phones, so keeping up on-the-go can be difficult. I am wondering about buying a ZTE Open off of ebay and getting a pay/mb data plan and we can pass that around as a dedicated email reader.
Up to that point, there is nothing to worry about, but what I am thinking of playing around with is cutting the OS down to only the email app and settings. I'd like to have it boot directly to email with settings available from the pull-down menu, if possible. I mainly want to keep it simple enough for cellular-phobic people and also take away the ability to browse the web and run up my cellphone bill.
I'm not super fluent in the in's and out's of FXOS beyond the app level, but I'm interested poking around, I'm just looking to gauge the difficulty. There are cheaper android devices that I could try with as well, but I'd much rather hack around in HTML/JS than Java. That being said, I have the option of just customizing the Andriod UI to remove everything except the mail app, so if tearing down the Firefox UI would be a lot of work, I'll just do that.
I have a Flame that I can run tests on before spending any money, but I appreciate your opinions before a throw away a bunch of time that could be used on something useful.
John
That's super doable and not very difficult I think! Only with one (obvious?) condition: you must have full root access to your device. ZTE gives a rooting tool, so if you stick with the Open C (or the flame) you should be good to go. Don't choose a Kliff for example, as they are not rootable yet.
First of all, stripping all of gaia (the top layer of firefox OS, containing all the UI) has already been done by JanOS (for IoT device), so you can get inspiration from them. They reduced it to only one js file and a folder, where you can put your own js that gets executed at startup. Your use case is a bit more complex though: you still want to access settings, and be able to go back to email when needed. Basically, you need the email app to replace the homescreen right?
Creating alternate homescreen is a possibility that firefox os gives you, see https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Apps/Build/Manifest#role
You can try adding the role "homescreen" to the email app, flash your device, change the homescreen in the settings and see what happens!
NB: when you change the manifest of an internal apps, you might need to rehash it by downloading https://github.com/julienw/config-files/blob/master/addpref and execute
Code:
./addpref rehash-manifest
while your device is connected (and usb debugging is on).
You might need to add handler in the email for the home button to work correctly, in a similar fashion as in verticalhome (which is the name of the folder containing the homescreen app, not "homescreen").
Good luck! Don't hesitate to ping me if you need any help.
---------- Post added at 11:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 AM ----------
Dude I just tried this and it's working like a charm. The thing that took me the most time was the configuration of the email account