The manual states: "The battery reaches it's maximum capacity after a few full charging and discharging cycles."
So, does this mean you should fully charge and then fully discharge the battery a few times to get maximum battery life?
If so, should you do this the first few times only or every time after that as well?
IOW, after the few initial times, would you get the best battery life fully discharging or topping off? Does it matter?
I think what it may mean is that the device needs full charging cycles to learn how to read the battery status accurately (so it doesn't say 2% when a fifth of the battery life remains). Other than that, lithium ion batteries are usually happy with top-up charges and only need to be deep-cycled occasionally to keep the OS' battery meter in sync.
OK, thanks. I didn't even know it used a Lithium-Ion battery. Based on that info. I did a quick search and found this: http://www.blackberryfaq.com/index.php/Maximum_Battery_Life
Interesting.
Mithent said:
I think what it may mean is that the device needs full charging cycles to learn how to read the battery status accurately (so it doesn't say 2% when a fifth of the battery life remains). Other than that, lithium ion batteries are usually happy with top-up charges and only need to be deep-cycled occasionally to keep the OS' battery meter in sync.
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Agreed, that is an intelligent assessment.
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Related
Ya... I just got the gsii this morning and I'm very happy with it. Just curious as to do I need to charge the battery for 8h for 3 days or not. Thanks
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No just full charge and use it .
jje
Woo hoooo
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Charge the battery, run it down to zero, charge to full, repeat for the first dozen ours so times, battery life has been improving in each cycle and I also recommend you do the same
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But isn't flattening Lithium Ion batteries bad for them? If you search the internet it often says not to over discharge as well as under charging them also increasing their life span. The older NiMh and NiCd batteries benefited from full discharge and recharge.
Charge the battery, run it down to zero, charge to full, repeat for the first dozen ours so times, battery life has been improving in each cycle and I also recommend you do the same
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If there's one way to send your battery to an early grave, this is it.
Modern batteries are limited by their number of discharge/recharge cycles. Letting the battery drop to 80% and then recharging is the same as letting it drop to 20%.
However, allowing the capacity to drop to zero is a stupid thing to do, since this permanently damages the battery. The battery has its own controller which goes some way towards protecting it, but it's a trade-off between shortening the lifetime and the actually runtime you can get from the battery.
So, to summarise: you're fine letting the battery drop to 10-20% before recharging. Do not allow it to fall below this too often, as you'll shorten the lifespan.
pbrown77 said:
But isn't flattening Lithium Ion batteries bad for them? If you search the internet it often says not to over discharge as well as under charging them also increasing their life span. The older NiMh and NiCd batteries benefited from full discharge and recharge.
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Yes it is 'bad' for Li-on batteries to be run down to zero. Ignore any posts you see saying otherwise.
Just charge it and use it. When possible, top up charge. Li-on batteries do not have memories and do not need to be 'conditioned'.
David Horn said:
If there's one way to send your battery to an early grave, this is it.
Modern batteries are limited by their number of discharge/recharge cycles. Letting the battery drop to 80% and then recharging is the same as letting it drop to 20%.
However, allowing the capacity to drop to zero is a stupid thing to do, since this permanently damages the battery. The battery has its own controller which goes some way towards protecting it, but it's a trade-off between shortening the lifetime and the actually runtime you can get from the battery.
So, to summarise: you're fine letting the battery drop to 10-20% before recharging. Do not allow it to fall below this too often, as you'll shorten the lifespan.
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nobnut said:
Yes it is 'bad' for Li-on batteries to be run down to zero. Ignore any posts you see saying otherwise.
Just charge it and use it. When possible, top up charge. Li-on batteries do not have memories and do not need to be 'conditioned'.
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Hmm, my bad, my Apologies, seems there's some way to go yet for me, I assumed this was the case as I had horrid life out straight out of the box, these discharge cycles helped tremendously, though with that being said I tend to not leave it below 15% now before I charge.
Oh well, live and learn.
Never discharge the battery to less then 10-15% if possible.
Aww crap I discharged it to zero last night. I thought out make sense cause back when I used the nexus one, there was this method of conditioning battery by discharging the battery. Ah well thanks guys
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Nurra said:
Aww crap I discharged it to zero last night. I thought out make sense cause back when I used the nexus one, there was this method of conditioning battery by discharging the battery. Ah well thanks guys
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Won't hurt that much. Contrary to what people say li-ion has limit on amount of recharge applied from whatever level it was applied. Also the phone cuts off before dangerous low levels are reached. However frequently doing this should be avoided.
The biggest danger is leaving phone in discharged state for long period of time as the background discharge (e.g. Power on off button, clock, etc.) will flatten the battery, without the protection circuits and completely ruin it; charging while hot (above 50 to 60 c) will also send battery to an early grave.
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I havent gotten a new phone since 09 Hero.....whats the deal with battery charging. Do I need to fully charge the phone before using it? Do you drain the battery fully before re-charging it?
what give the battery the best life possible?
Never, ever, never, ever, never, never, ever drain a lithium based battery to nothing. Very, very bad. Charge it and keep it above 50% for the firstweek.
Swyped from my Atari 2600
overclockxp said:
Never, ever, never, ever, never, never, ever drain a lithium based battery to nothing. Very, very bad. Charge it and keep it above 50% for the firstweek.
Swyped from my Atari 2600
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Thank you. That is the type of advice I need.
kinextions said:
I havent gotten a new phone since 09 Hero.....whats the deal with battery charging. Do I need to fully charge the phone before using it? Do you drain the battery fully before re-charging it?
what give the battery the best life possible?
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Even your Hero should be the same. Most modern cell phones use Lithium Ion which do not have memory effect.
There is no memory for Li-ion batteries so go ahead and just use your phone. You do not have to keep it above or below a certain charge. The phone will not allow the battery to drain to completion so you do not have to worry about that. It is very bad to let a Li-ion battery completely drain but there are fail safe measures implemented in the phone/battery to prevent that. 0% charge on your phone does not mean 0% battery, its just the mA at which your phone thinks the battery has 0% battery remaining.
I wonder if there's going to be a similar procedure to the OG EVO's plug, unplug, turn off, charge, unplug, turn on, turn off, charge method (or whatever it was) to maximize battery life.
mevensen said:
I wonder if there's going to be a similar procedure to the OG EVO's plug, unplug, turn off, charge, unplug, turn on, turn off, charge method (or whatever it was) to maximize battery life.
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Bump charging works for lots of phones to my understanding. Something about how the phone at first doesn't charge to 100% - when it gets to a certain point it just keeps it maintained at that level .
While it is true that lithium ion batteries don’t suffer from “memory” problems such as NiCad batteries they do have a lifespan. For example, the lithium battery in the laptop that I am using right now, and have used for the past year, currently has a 98% charge and is not charging. That’s much, much better than a NiCad battery would be. I can really see the NiCad issue in my rechargeable cordless tools.
But lithium batteries will eventually die. Just ask the first generation iPud owners. Their batteries were failing just after a year of ownership and Apphole wouldn’t do anything about it. They had reached the end of life of their batteries.
Lithium batteries do take a little bit to break in though. You’ll notice a slight improvement as time goes on for the next month. But I would still refrain from draining the battery too much.
Thanks for the input...I too have the hero, and was curios...
...is it Friday yet?
there was a recent article I seen from a link in the g2x forums where they go to actual experts on the lithium who designed the actual cells and ask them how is best to charge them.
the honest answer is for life being your most concern. that means for the battery to keep a consistent charge over the life of the phone without losing actual daily life on the battery,
you have to plug it in when the phone ask at about 20%. then unplug it when the phone says the battery is full. Do not leave the battery plugged in for hours over full. said something about the charge disburst weird or something
anyway it was a link in the g2x forum in general. im sure you can finds it. Ill look if you really want me to,
Lots of info on Li-ion batteries:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
Being that the Battery stats are stored on the /Data partition, how is this minimum threshold managed?
So I have had mine sitting here all packaged up since tuesday.
And im looking to now actually open it and play with it,
Do you recommend I charge to full when off, or on? Perhaps run it dry and then charge it up?
You used to be told, Charge it for 8 hours before you use it...
That surely can't be true of todays rechargeable battery technology?
[Q] charging and battery damage
If I leave my touchpad on the touchstone charger for long periods and the touchpad is switched on will this damage the battery?
I know I have had laptops and always ran them of the mains and the battery has stopped holding a charge.
Cheers.
I assume that the touchpad has a charging circuit that stops it charging when the battery is full, but batteries will always fail after a while regardless. Lithium batteries are best charged often and not let run down too much in between.
Also, dson't let a lithium battery run down completely, you can significantly shorten its life doing that.
Troute said:
Also, dson't let a lithium battery run down completely, you can significantly shorten its life doing that.
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source? I thought lithium battery had no memory.
It's not a memory issue, running a lithium battery flat (deep discharging) has a physical effect on it where it will lose it's ability to recharge to as high a level as the previous charge. Each time this happens the battery loses more of it's ability to reach an effective voltage.
Don't take my word for it, do your own research, there's plenty of information out there it internet land.
alexhayuk said:
If I leave my touchpad on the touchstone charger for long periods and the touchpad is switched on will this damage the battery?
I know I have had laptops and always ran them of the mains and the battery has stopped holding a charge.
Cheers.
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The dev for Dr.battery's has a thread that states that leaving your Touchpad on the touchstone for long periods of time should not impact the battery. Due to it switching to powering the unit after its charged. Though he is doing some testing on that. Also his app should be updated soon for the Touchpad (available through preware). I am still going to contact HP to discuss this as well. I would hate to damage a non replaceable battery. Will update if I have any new info.
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using xda premium
Troute said:
It's not a memory issue, running a lithium battery flat (deep discharging) has a physical effect on it where it will lose it's ability to recharge to as high a level as the previous charge. Each time this happens the battery loses more of it's ability to reach an effective voltage.
Don't take my word for it, do your own research, there's plenty of information out there it internet land.
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I have done my own research. That's why i don't think this is accurate.
If you have some proof please share.
Besides common aging, a Li-ion battery can also fail because of undercharge. This occurs if a Li-ion pack is stored in a discharged condition. Self-discharge gradually lowers the voltage of the already discharged battery and the protection circuit cuts off between 2.20 and 2.90V/cell.
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http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Basically through normal use you can probably expect around 250-300 full charge cycles (partial charges only count as partial and add up with other partial charges to be a full cycle) in an average battery pack before it has degraded to 80% of it's original capacity. I don't see anything that point to full discharges being damaging. However storing it for longer periods of time fully discharged can affect life.
ambivalent-one I think the figure of 250-300 charge cycles you've pulled from that page refer to deep discharge cycle tests done by them, personally I'd be very unhappy with that kind of lifespan in a battery in regular usage. The same page you've posted http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries shows a chart of charge cycles versus depth of discharge.
Table 2: Cycle life and depth of discharge
A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life. Elevated temperature and high currents also affect cycle life.
Charges - Depth of Discharge
500 - 100% DoD
1500 - 50% DoD
2500 - 25% DoD
4700 - 10% DoD
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As you can see a L-ion battery can be made to last nearly ten times longer by keeping the charge level up near max.
Quote from http://www.batterieswholesale.com/damaging_batteries.htm
The Li-Ion cell should never be allowed to drop below about 2.4V, or an internal chemical reaction will occur where one of the battery electrodes can oxidize (corrode) through a process which can not be reversed by recharging. If this occurs, battery capacity will be lost (and the cell may be completely destroyed)
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karan1203 if you reckon the information about deep discharge not accurate, can you provide the results of your own research that shows this?
Just let it die the first time, then charge when under 5%.
karan1203 said:
I have done my own research. That's why i don't think this is accurate.
If you have some proof please share.
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Your research must've been incredibly basic in that case. The 2nd result I get when Googling "lithium batteries" gives me the wikipedia page which has a small amount of into on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
Look at the "Safety requirements" section for a start.
Also Google "lithium batteries discharge" returns some useful links.
I will edit the post as other suggestions come in.
This is what I am doing and it works very well for me. Keeping all things equal... meaning keeping your screen brightness the same, keeping you live wallpaper if you have it you should see major improvement in battery life.
Draining a new battery to 0 and charging to 100 percent several times will help extend the battery life.
Anker 1930mah I find add 20 percent better life.
I have stock HTC 1 by 1 widgets on my home screen that allow me to easily manage wifi, mobile data, sync and airplane mode. I suggest turning off backround data and auto sync.
New Energy ROM and stock videotron kernel is the best battery life by far and it a awesome Rom.
OC_daemon comes with energy rom.. i use it to drastically reduce your cpu speeds when screen is off and even can reduce when the screen is on if you do not run a lot of widgets / high demand apps...
Let me know how it works for you...
Preaak said:
I will edit the post as other suggestions come in.
This is what I am doing and it works very well for me. Keeping all things equal... meaning keeping your screen brightness the same, keeping you live wallpaper if you have it you should see major improvement in battery life.
Draining a new battery to 0 and charging to 100 percent several times will help extend the battery life.
Anker 1930mah I find add 20 percent better life.
I have stock HTC 1 by 1 widgets on my home screen that allow me to easily manage wifi, mobile data, sync and airplane mode. I suggest turning off backround data and auto sync.
New Energy ROM and stock videotron kernel is the best battery life by far and it a awesome Rom.
OC_daemon comes with energy rom.. i use it to drastically reduce your cpu speeds when screen is off and even can reduce when the screen is on if you do not run a lot of widgets / high demand apps...
Let me know how it works for you...
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for the last time, lithium ions have been out for over a decade now...they do not have memory so there is no need to cycle these batteries...draining the battery and overcharging it is actually bad for lithium ions...lithium ion batteries must be in a constant state of charge and discharge to extend battery life...draining to 0 and 100 only recalibrates the accuracy of how much battery that your phone shows that is actually left in your battery. also draining the battery and overcharging lithium ions is a very bad idea and will significantly decrease the life of the battery...
the other points are absolutely true and valid and recommended
seansk said:
for the last time, lithium ions have been out for over a decade now...they do not have memory so there is no need to cycle these batteries...draining the battery and overcharging it is actually bad for lithium ions...lithium ion batteries must be in a constant state of charge and discharge to extend battery life...draining to 0 and 100 only recalibrates the accuracy of how much battery that your phone shows that is actually left in your battery. also draining the battery and overcharging lithium ions is a very bad idea and will significantly decrease the life of the battery...
the other points are absolutely true and valid and recommended
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I never suggest overcharging your battery and battery memory is not the reason for a full charge and discharge.
Fully charging battery helps the phone properly read your battery and use the battery output evenly. The batteries drains at a more constant rate.. I would say it settled down.
According to Anker... to reach the best performance, full charge and discharge your new battery for 4 to 5 times.
I know you do not agree but that is my experience and that is what the maker of the battery suggest. So this should be done.
Preaak said:
I never suggest overcharging your battery.
According to Anker... to reach the best performance, full charge and discharge your new battery for 4 to 5 times.
After doing this the batteries drained at a more constant rate.. I would say it settled down. I know you do not agree but that is my experience and that is what the maker of the battery suggest. So this should be done.
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I know what you're talking about. It's an old mentality that refuses to Die form years of using Ni-Cd batteries. I have a post about this somewhere I just can't find it. search up battery university lithium ion on google. It'll tell you lots more. If this was true all companies with lithium ions would tell you to charge and discharge multiple times...but newer companies like samsung and sony don't even recommend this and they just ell you to charge until full, on many of their products with lith ion now.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
Li-ion does not need to be fully charged, as is the case with lead acid, nor is it desirable to do so. In fact, it is better not to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery. Choosing a lower voltage threshold, or eliminating the saturation charge altogether, prolongs battery life but this reduces the runtime. Since the consumer market promotes maximum runtime, these chargers go for maximum capacity rather than extended service life.
there are more articles in other places just got lazy lol
seansk said:
I know what you're talking about. It's an old mentality that refuses to Die form years of using Ni-Cd batteries. I have a post about this somewhere I just can't find it. search up battery university lithium ion on google. It'll tell you lots more. If this was true all companies with lithium ions would tell you to charge and discharge multiple times...but newer companies like samsung and sony don't even recommend this and they just ell you to charge until full, on many of their products with lith ion now.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
Li-ion does not need to be fully charged, as is the case with lead acid, nor is it desirable to do so. In fact, it is better not to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery. Choosing a lower voltage threshold, or eliminating the saturation charge altogether, prolongs battery life but this reduces the runtime. Since the consumer market promotes maximum runtime, these chargers go for maximum capacity rather than extended service life.
there are more articles in other places just got lazy lol
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Those test mean very little because in the real world those batteries have to work our phones and not a artificial charge / discharge cycle... Meaning fully charging and discharging you battery allows your phone to properly read your battery and use the battery output evenly.
I would also point out that in that article does not say that a full charge and discharge of only 4 or 5 times will reduce service life. Yes doing this habitually will...
Preaak said:
Those test mean very little because in the real world those batteries have to work our phones and not a artificial charge / discharge cycle... Meaning fully charging and discharging you battery allows allows your phone to properly read your battery and use the battery output evenly.
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correct...the only thing that cycling a lithium ion does it to read the battery life properly...it will not affect battery life at all, unlike older ni-cd. its a race between getting a longer battery life or a longer runtime...if you want you battery to last...then i suggest you don't charge to 100 percent and you don't let you phone die...if you want more runtime which is what everyone wants, then you have to charge to 100...but as many people notice...going from 80 to 100 takes a long time while going from lets say 20 to 80 takes the same amount of time...also battery drains very quickly from 100 to around 80 percent..
my only point was that you do not need to cycle your battery multiple times. Once time should be enough for you phone to get a good handle on your calibration...besides you can always recalibrate the readout using an app.
If I have lots of widgets, can that suck more battery, also, my network is off all day, turn it on whenever I need it, and sync is off too.
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Hi, I was asking myself if it was possible to copy batterystats.bin from a calibrated x10i to have our own x10i calibrated.
I explain : I see that file like a file with values that have the percentage of the battery with the duration and stuff like that, so copying it to have the right values.
Can work or not ? influenced by kernel or rom ? What do you think ?
Li-Ion batteries just need a good charge for approx 8-12hrs when new and first installed and having this process repeated for at least 4-5 charges.
The phone doesn't allow the battery to over change and cuts out and then starts changing again once the charge drops to a chargeable threshold.
This allows the battery to achieve it's maximum charge.
Li-Ion batteries should never be drained or allowed to run flat and should be charged regularly.
If you completely discharge a lithium-ion battery, it is ruined.
Li-Ion battery life is between 2-3 years.
I would let the battery sort itself out as all the battery status is based on the battery itself.
If the battery is old and on it's last legs, it'll have less charge than a newer battery.
P.S. If you plan to keep and use the XPERIA X10i for some time, it's well worth buying a Mugen Power 1800mAh battery.
Dr Goodvibes said:
Li-Ion batteries just need a good charge for approx 8-12hrs when new and first installed and having this process repeated for at least 4-5 charges.
The phone doesn't allow the battery to over change and cuts out and then starts changing again once the charge drops to a chargeable threshold.
This allows the battery to achieve it's maximum charge.
Li-Ion batteries should never be drained or allowed to run flat and should be charged regularly.
If you completely discharge a lithium-ion battery, it is ruined.
Li-Ion battery life is between 2-3 years.
I would let the battery sort itself out as all the battery status is based on the battery itself.
If the battery is old and on it's last legs, it'll have less charge than a newer battery.
P.S. If you plan to keep and use the XPERIA X10i for some time, it's well worth buying a Mugen Power 1800mAh battery.
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how does that answer to my question ? Do they sell new x10i ? meh