Since we know the main reason Google did Android was the same as all their other free products - collect more info from users, can the built in VPN settings be trusted? It just seems to me that the only reason Google would be "kind" enough to build in a system to defeat the reason they built Android in the first place would be if they wanted a way to offer "security" with a back door for themselves??? i.e. Maybe all traffic goes through Google before being sent to VPN??
Or maybe a simple question is can Google still see your traffic or get the info they want if you use the built in VPN settings (with a VPN service of course)?
Would using an OpenVPN app be more secure than the standard settings?
Thanks and I'll apologize in advance if this is a stupid question!
Remove the tinfoil hat for a second and listen:
Even if the traffic from the VPN were to be sent to Google, they would only receive the encrypted traffic!
Erm, yeah, that is, if no other part of the VPN framework is sending the encryption key to Google servers -in an encrypted form so as to not be so easily detectable by sniffing the traffic...
Heck, the FBI and the NSA do it with e-mail (google-search "carnivore program" and "Echelon communications interception", you'll find plenty of info on these -surprisingly not well known- topics) and truckloads of other communication forms, why would Google mind ?
You're absolutely right to be wary -especially if you live in the USA, where the "Patriot Acts" 1 and 2 give practically free-hands to the government to wiretap everything they want, in the interest of "national security" (or so they say. Most times though, it's used for more 'impure' intentions), and sometimes forward the collected info to big corporations who can make big money out of it. That's how Boeing practically stole a multibillion $ contract right under the nose of Airbus : the NSA tipped them off after they intercepted emails and faxes emitted by Airbus about the bid, and told Boeing to slightly -just enough- increase their own bid, and voilà... (but they never acknowledge anything by saying "we intercepted comms that said they'll bid so much or so much", nope, it's way more sneaky than this : it goes like "about this contract, we think that it would be a good idea to slightly increase your bid, by say a million or two", never mentioning any wiretapping -and of course the people who benefit from the info are way too glad to think about spoiling the ambiance by asking embarassing questions. "you don't look a gift horse in the mouth", after all...
If you really wanna have a (mostly) relaxed mindset about this, I see only one reliable solution : code your very own VPN app, and keep it to yourself, forever and ever, so it can't be reverse-engineered by no one (and even this is no 100% guarantee, you're never safe from anything in this sorry world)..
That being said, I'm not entirely convinced Google created Android just for gathering info from its sheepish users.. There probably is some of that, sure -althoug, to be a Android user requires way more technical knowledge and curiosity about the device you're using (that is, if you wanna use it at 100% of its capabilities) than the "average frustrated Windows chump".. And this kind of user is way more liable to uncover the "conspiracy", sooner and easier than just a WinMo or iOS user.. It's kind of like sawing the branch you're sitting on..
And if this happened -Google being discovered spying upon the communications of Android users- they'd probably be in biiiig trouble, probably more than what makes it worth trying it. Just look at Apple when it got known that every iPhone has a hidden memory area that stores the GPS coordinates of your every move and periodically uploads them to Apple servers. Jobs managed to dodge the bullet by publicly explaining that it was meant to enhance the algorithms that will be used by future GPS chips, but who the hell believes that ? For one thing, Apple never manufactured GPS chips, and probably never will, mostly because building a chip-foundry factory costs a huge wad of dough (just ask Intel how much they're spending to upgrade their infrastructures each time they reduce the die-sizes by a few nanometers, the amounts are hard to believe when you're making about 15$ an hour like me..), and also because there are already too many competitors out there -most of which are better than Apple at designing quality hardware.. It's probably no mystery if Apple prefers using 3rd-party hardware than making their own : it's cheaper, easier, and at least if you get some f-ed up hardware, you can just blame it on the corporation who sold it to you instead of having to make an embarassing and very public mea-culpa (at this point, the words "HTC", "eMMC" and "Samsung-made chips" are popping into my mind.. Is anyone else feeling those symptoms ? ^^). And it would be way harder -if not downright impossible- for Google to find a believable and reasonable explanation for such a mischief (I think it's even called a felony at this level.. But I'm no yankee, can't be 100% sure about this detail -and right now I'm too lazy to Google it up and find out.. xD).
But then again, who can be 100% sure ? It's always wise to be wary, and always be prepared for every contingency, as far as is humanly possible
I personally think that if Google created Android it's probably more because they wanted to thwart Microsoft from ever gaining complete monopoly of the mobile OS market, like they did with Windows and the PC OS market -which they mercilessly dominate by every means possible, even those that are borderline illegal sometimes, if the outcome makes it very worth the risk..
Google and Microsoft just can't stand each other (just like Microsoft and SCO-Unix couldn't stand each other back in the heroic days.. Actually, Microsoft has had many a foe along the way, IBM is counting among those too -but MS finally managed to kill off their offspring OS/2. It wouldn't die by itself so they had to kill it.. But they only managed to do so because they were more determined on taking it out of the OS scene than IBM was determined on defending it.. ), and they just will do anything that is in their respective grasp to piss off one another -with varying success..
And I gotta admit that they did a pretty good job out of it, all things considered : the Unix open-source community benefits from one more interesting project (even if the sources for every new Android release are often very long to come out. But then, the GNU public licence only states that you have to release the source code with your app if you're reusing some GNU-licensed code, it never mentions any deadlines, or that it has to be released together with the compiled binary), and Microsoft is held back from completely winning a juicy prize, which makes their new CEO Steve Ballmer mad with rage -which is hilariously funny to me (I can't get enough of seeing this fatass enraged. Too bad Bill Gates retired, it'd probably have been equally as funny -if not more- to see him enraged, with Ballmer towering over him by his side and trying to make himself as small as a mouse so he could escape by a crack in the nearest wall, the "angry dwarf and the 'not-too-bright-but-very-bulky' giant". In the movies that's always a winning combo)..
Snakeforhire said:
Erm, yeah, that is, if no other part of the VPN framework is sending the encryption key to Google servers -in an encrypted form so as to not be so easily detectable by sniffing the traffic...
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Click to collapse
Well, if you want to follow that road, what's telling you that the VPN clients around aren't sending that very same key to law enforcement agencies?
The answer is simple, it would be a huge, gigantic ****up, as you said!
read the rest of my post, I address this issue a few lines down.
@Alcap12 I don't generally consider myself to be part of the tin foil hat club. But I am older and have learned (the hard way) the difference between regrets and mistakes - mistakes you can fix. I think there is going to be a whole **** load of young folks who are going to regret not taking their privacy a little more seriously in a few years.
Thanks for the reply SnakeforHire.
I understand the man-in-the-middle type of attack and if you're using an ssl vpn the only thing the middleman sees is encrypted traffic. But Google isn't in the middle they own the starting point. So is it possible: A user sends some data, Android phones home with the metadata, and then Android encrypts the data and sends it to the vpn server? Tons of the apps on the market are tracking you - heck the Dolphin browser just got busted doing it right here on XDA so why not Android itself??
I'm thinking a packet sniffer would tell us the answer. I'm also thinking if I've thought of this one of the professionals here on XDA has too and has checked it out already. At least I'm hoping so. I just posted this thread in the hopes of finding out for sure.
you're assuming the filtered-out data would be sent over to the eavesdropper in an unencrypted form, otherwise the packet sniffer would just see meaningless garbage..
And I kinda doubt that anyone willing to go to such lengths to spy on others would be so foolish as to forget to add encryption to his upload framework.
Well, it seems to be a very good and informative question. I use VPN service and i don' think that google can trace out your traffic though the traffic from the local ISP transmit through a sound means which is absolutely encrypted and protected so there won't be any chance for anyone to look into you data and traffic...
i use the service of hidemyass and i can say that its is the best iphone vpn. I have been searching around the web for several aspects related to vpn and my research concluded that through vpn no data can be traced..All what google or anyone else will receive is the encrypted data like [email protected]#$^^&*. So impossible for anyone to see it
Since the arrival of latest Android Phones, we have been seeing people searching for the most reliable and trustworthy Android VPN Providers. It has not been easy for anyone of us, searching for VPN provider that can support our latest Android Phones settings. In fact this has not been easy for us to compile this entire list of Android VPN Providers.
Setting up commercial VPN on Android 3.0 or older versions is a piece of cake nothing to worry about. You just have to tap here and there on your New Android Phone and you are connected.
Before providing you with the step by step process, I would again mention the ‘disclaimer’ that this blog-post is not for the experts or techies, but this is for those who are new to VPN or android and want to setup their VPN accounts for the first time on their Android Phones.
Let’s cut the crap and start with the tutorial, I will first tell you how to setup a simple PPTP VPN connection on your Android Phone.
Go to your Phone settings.
Tap on Wireless Controls and then VPN Settings.
Click ‘Add VPN’ and you are Half way through J
Tap on “Add PPTP VPN”. Do not worry about others, we will let you know about the other protocols as well.
Add your “VPN Name”. It can be your name, you can even name it “I Do not need VPN”
Now the so-called difficult part arrives, entering the Server Name. Server Name can only be entered, if you have a VPN account, or you have setup your own VPN. If you do not have both, please do not try this, you will not get anything
Server name is being provided by the VPN Provider, it will be like “usa.bestvpnservice.com”.
You can enable the encryption here. (If VPN still does not work, try again after disabling it)
Do not worry about DNS Search Domains until or unless you are planning to use Internal DNS Server, if yes enter them here.
Save the Settings and You are all set with your New VPN Connection on your Android Honeycomb.
Now, comes the connecting part. Go to your VPN Settings and there you will get your added VPN connection. Tap to connect it and enter your Username and Password, which you will get after paying your VPN Provider. You will see a small Key like icon on the Top, which means you are now safe, secure and anonymous in the digital world. You can disconnect your VPN by going to the same area with VPN settings and tapping on your connected VPN Connection.
I hope it will helpful for you to configure settings on your Android. Currently i am Using my Ipad its more easy as compare to Android.
To see Ipad VPN and its seetings:
bestvpnservice.com/blog/how-to-connect-to-a-vpn-on-ipad-2
Related
Hello has anyone used the money toolkit app to access your account?. On my iphone I have an official natwest app, which am sure is safe however a bit worried about this one cause it clearly states not affiliated with any bank.
Hi marvi0
I am Dan - founder of Money Toolkit, so obviously my opinion is not impartial
You are absolutely right to question apps like ours, and I wish more people were more diligent in this resect.
The biggest barrier to using any third party financial app is trust. For a small start up like ours, theres a bit of a catch 22 thing. The best way for people to trust our app is to see others using it, which means having enough early trail blazers use it.
I hope you do read some of the pages on our site regarding security - we have gone to very great lengths to keep you in charge of your credentials.
But this is still only our word. Probably the best thing to help increase your confidence is to look on our get satisfaction pages - (we cant delete messages, so it is an open conversation). Also check the comments on the Android market, again we can't even respond as the developer (which can be frustrating).
I hope others do respond on here, though we only have 500+ active users, so I would be a bit surprised.
There will always be some nervousness committing to our app, ultimately you have to go with your instincts - most people who see our app don't go on to enter their details, which is a shame in my opinion (obviously), because those who do find our app really useful.
Any questions, just ask.
Cheers.
Dan.
I have installed it and it looks pretty good
I have my fingers crossed regarding the security
Thanks for your reply so does this app actually allow me to view my natwest account information?
marvi0 said:
Thanks for your reply so does this app actually allow me to view my natwest account information?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it does yeah
you get an overview and then when you click on the account it drills down into the transactions
you cant see direct debits etc
also i wish you could change the theme, the wooden effect is a bit yukky, lol
but it does the job fine
also you have to manually log out or the app will run in the background, and if someone picks up your phone they can see the bank funds etc
winwiz - thanks for that.
You are not alone a few people don't like the wooden theme, so we are thinking of changing that.
The idea was that it continues the web site theme of being a work bench - continuing to follow the tool kit idea! We also didn't want to look like another boring bank, but probably it doesn't work that well on the phones.
Regarding logging out - we keep you logged in on purpose, (it will time out after 5 minutes) it is really annoying when you accidentally go back too far or want to swap to another app and have to log back in. Perhaps we should make that another setting?
some people even choose to keep their password remembered, and rely on the phones own security.
Remember this is a READ ONLY app, there is absolutely no way anyone could transfer funds, or make any changes to your bank.
We've got some nice things planned, like categorising your sending and graphs etc.
So any feedback or ideas really welcome - especially on the get satisfaction pages
Cheers.
MTK-Dan said:
winwiz - thanks for that.
You are not alone a few people don't like the wooden theme, so we are thinking of changing that.
The idea was that it continues the web site theme of being a work bench - continuing to follow the tool kit idea! We also didn't want to look like another boring bank, but probably it doesn't work that well on the phones.
Regarding logging out - we keep you logged in on purpose, (it will time out after 5 minutes) it is really annoying when you accidentally go back too far or want to swap to another app and have to log back in. Perhaps we should make that another setting?
some people even choose to keep their password remembered, and rely on the phones own security.
Remember this is a READ ONLY app, there is absolutely no way anyone could transfer funds, or make any changes to your bank.
We've got some nice things planned, like categorising your sending and graphs etc.
So any feedback or ideas really welcome - especially on the get satisfaction pages
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Dan,
Thanks for the great feedback. I'd like the option to customise the background, or if this is not possible, a solid black background. The timeout option should be configurable so the user can set the timeout period!
I look forward to the updates
MTK-Dan said:
I am Dan - founder of Money Toolkit, so obviously my opinion is not impartial
...
Any questions, just ask.
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Click to collapse
Hi Dan,
Was just deliberating about using Money Toolkit and I had a couple questions. I've no knowledge in this area so please bare with me.
On the blog post here: hxxp://moneytoolkit.com/2010/09/secure-mobile-banking/
You said that:
"Yodlee then sells your bank data to the web site that you signed up".
Which I agree doesn't sound ideal - but they have to make money to be a sustainable business. How does money toolkit intend to make money? Which part of users financial details will be utilised to do this?
Secondly - regarding the security - the same blog post says:
"Not only would someone have to get access to your phone they would have to go to the same lengths as they would if they wanted to ‘hack’ into a bank, but they would have to do it three times!"
I presume that each location storing data can't login to the bank account in part. Instead a single server instance would have to login - requiring all 3 parts of the information to do so as banks usually randomise the questions asked. That presumption may be wrong however - but if it's correct does that mean a hacker could just hack that single server instance and intercept the traffic being sent to the bank?
You said that:
"Yodlee then sells your bank data to the web site that you signed up".
"but they have to make money to be a sustainable business. How does money toolkit intend to make money? Which part of users financial details will be utilised to do this?""
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We point out the normal relationship with Yodlee because Yodlee is an independant third party, they are the entity that you end up having the biggest contractual relationship with, in fact you sign over power of attourney to them when you use a web site that uses their aggregation (read the small print).
Regarding Money Toolkit making money, so far we don't! Of course, as you point out, we need to, so we have two options - we will ask for 50p per month (for example), or we will offer good deals with companies we trust (generally not main stream banking companies), where we will make a commission, if we do that we will make the commission obvious and share it with the person taking the offer.
"Secondly - regarding the security...
...does that mean a hacker could just hack that single server instance and intercept the traffic being sent to the bank?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well your main assumptions is correct, but the reasoning not quite right. Firstly it is not just because of the random nature of the security questions that the three way split is valuable, but literally each part is utterly useless without the other parts, they are three parts of an encrypted file, which MUST come together before it is possible to decrypt.
The decrypted file (now only in volatile memory) then returns values to your phone and it is your phone which sends (over SSL) the right request to the bank, so they would have to breach our own SSL traffic (and custom encryption). Our IP's and the bank's are hard coded so a traditional man in the midle attack is ruled out. They would in effect, have to dupe you into downloading a dodgy Money Toolkit apk for this to be possible.
As you may know, the huge majority of security problems come from static data being discoverable (cd's and memory sticks left on trains for example). In our case the three seperate locations, including your phone make this kind of static data recovery, all but impossible.
However... you are right tht if someone managed to compromise the individual server that, at that moment (we have many), did that specific decryption: then if they were very smart, they might have the ability to detect your secure bank details. Though it would be almost imposible for that to happen and us not know about it. To alter our code and not have our systems detect the intrusion would be phenomenal.
MTK-Dan said:
so we have two options - we will ask for 50p per month (for example), or we will offer good deals with companies we trust (generally not main stream banking companies), where we will make a commission, if we do that we will make the commission obvious and share it with the person taking the offer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great, both options sound reasonable
MTK-Dan said:
they are three parts of an encrypted file, which MUST come together before it is possible to decrypt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neat, didn't realise.
MTK-Dan said:
The decrypted file (now only in volatile memory) then returns values to your phone and it is your phone which sends (over SSL) the right request to the bank, so they would have to breach our own SSL traffic (and custom encryption).
They would in effect, have to dupe you into downloading a dodgy Money Toolkit apk for this to be possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That at least does sound secure (without understanding it more) I suppose there may also be security issues beyond a dodgy .apk file if the Android device has been rooted - because I think that allows apps to work outside of their sandbox. Again, I don't know enough about that.
Thanks for the detailed answers, it gives me more confidence in the service.
aph5 said:
Great, both options sound reasonable
Neat, didn't realise.
That at least does sound secure (without understanding it more) I suppose there may also be security issues beyond a dodgy .apk file if the Android device has been rooted - because I think that allows apps to work outside of their sandbox. Again, I don't know enough about that.
Thanks for the detailed answers, it gives me more confidence in the service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it possible to transfer money to whomever you want with this app?
I know we are all android fans, but I thought this was an interesting read. I know this is just a rumor, but it may have some credence. Microsoft is trying to defend mobile user privacy. Verizon is saying no, they would rather share your info to advertisers.. Makes me wonder about that last update....
Microsoft vs Verizon
Another article
I've come to the conclusion that the only way to minimize invasion of privacy is to not use electronics technology. Credit cards, cell phones and computers give thieves the opportunity to steal. I can't live without these so I opt out when it's convenient to do so and live with the risk otherwise. We don't really have much choice. The alternative would be too time consuming.
I wonder what others think.
Sent from my HTC Incredible 4G on Verizon's periodically blazing fast and mostly reliable 4G LTE network using xda-developers app
Nyobie said:
I've come to the conclusion that the only way to minimize invasion of privacy is to not use electronics technology. Credit cards, cell phones and computers give thieves the opportunity to steal. I can't live without these so I opt out when it's convenient to do so and live with the risk otherwise. We don't really have much choice. The alternative would be too time consuming.
I wonder what others think.
Sent from my HTC Incredible 4G on Verizon's periodically blazing fast and mostly reliable 4G LTE network using xda-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with that. I buy stuff on line, too. I used to be concerned, but haven't had a problem (yet).
Sent from my Fireball using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2
Knock on wood.
Sent from my HTC Incredible 4G on Verizon's periodically blazing fast and mostly reliable 4G LTE network using xda-developers app
Nyobie said:
I wonder what others think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anyone who has ever entered information on the internet has left a digital fingerprint of one form or fashion. Companies keep all records for years, so if you bought something online, they still have record of it. Using a cell phone, law enforcement agencies can petition the company for which towers you were connected to during a given time, and if you have GPS enabled, that information as well, and use it against you whether you are guilty or not. Every text message, its contents, every phone call, and more is tracked and stored by your company for years, despite claims by the company to the contrary. I know a guy who had text messages subpoenaed by the court from over a year before used in his child custody case, despite the company saying it only saved them for a week. With smartphones, any app you download with the right permissions can steal all of your data, or utilize a known exploit and do it without the right permissions. There are apps which can prevent certain apps from performing functions you don't want them to, like access the internet or your GPS, but that's assuming it obeys the normal rules.
I've been working with computers for over 20 years and know the risk that revealing personal information can pose. I change my passwords every couple months, and for some sites, change my username on occasion. Every website you visit is tracked and stored by your ISP, and every download you make, including torrents, is tracked. I don't enter credit card data online, I'll pay someone the cash and get them to make purchases for me with their card if I need something. I don't reveal my real name or much personal information about myself, other than basic things like that I work and have kids. Your IP address is stored by almost every website you visit, and if you allow cookies you are being tracked by multiple websites across your entire internet experience until you delete them. All this may sound extreme, and it is, but it's all true. Now, is it really that bad? If you're not smart about it, yeah, it can be. I can name over a dozen people I know that had some form of identity theft or credit card fraud in the last year alone, some due to sheer stupidity, others due to bad luck.
Now, whose spyware is worse, Microsoft or Verizon? Microsoft forces you to make a new account when you have a new installation of Windows, generally leaving the default Administrator account created but disabled, unless you're savvy enough to enable the default Administrator account during installation and use that one as your primary account, thereby leaving the computer open to anyone with a Windows boot CD able to take over your computer with admin rights. While not technically spyware, it's a dumbass move. Verizon stores everything you do, every website you visit, every text you send, and then lies to you about it. Still, not technically spyware, but shady to say the least. Microsoft can remotely access any computer with Windows on it, even if you have it disabled, and now Verizon can access our phone, even if we don't want them to. Both claim they wouldn't use this without our consent, but how do we really know? Once again, bleak, but true.
So, you want to use the internet, but don't want your information stolen or used against you. How do you minimize personal information on the internet? Don't use your real name, don't use your credit card to make purchases, use a proxy server logged into another proxy server to prevent website tracking, don't text or instant message any information you don't want police to see, use the default administrator account on Windows with a password, preferably a 12+ character password with capital letters and symbols. Don't use the same username across many websites, alternate difficult to crack passwords and change them out on a semi-regular basis. Never store passwords on your computer! That's one of the biggest problems I've seen. Perform full-drive encryption on your hard drive, turn your computer off when not in use. Don't leave webcams plugged in when you're not using them, and just don't be stupid.
In our society, it's really difficult to not use electronics, and eventually something about yourself is going to come out. When you've been working with computers and their users as long as I have, it's hard not to have seen so many horror stories which spawned this post. Most people aren't going to have a problem which requires all that, but I've taken a largely preemptive stance toward privacy on the internet. If I Google my name, I get a few references in family tree websites, which don't really uniquely identify me, and am mentioned in a couple posts on a few websites, like a company I used to work for which hasn't updated its site in years but keeps paying for web services. While this type of severe privacy isn't necessary for most people, I've never had a single account hacked, never been a victim of identity theft/fraud, and still manage to enjoy myself on the internet. Sure, a Facebook with my real name and a picture of me wouldn't be the end of the world, but I just don't need that to continue enjoying myself. Randomly-named Facebook with a few close friends and family and a picture of the sunset from the beach in California I took last summer while on vacation with my kids are enough.
Sorry this rant has gone on so long. I just have strong opinions due to scenarios I've seen first-hand, and don't want that to happen to me. I guess I'm a privacy freak. lol. It's all your fault, Nyobie, you opened up a can of worms!
IceDragon59 said:
Anyone who has ever entered information on the internet has left a digital fingerprint of one form or fashion. Companies keep all records for years, so if you bought something online, they still have record of it. Using a cell phone, law enforcement agencies can petition the company for which towers you were connected to during a given time, and if you have GPS enabled, that information as well, and use it against you whether you are guilty or not. Every text message, its contents, every phone call, and more is tracked and stored by your company for years, despite claims by the company to the contrary. I know a guy who had text messages subpoenaed by the court from over a year before used in his child custody case, despite the company saying it only saved them for a week. With smartphones, any app you download with the right permissions can steal all of your data, or utilize a known exploit and do it without the right permissions. There are apps which can prevent certain apps from performing functions you don't want them to, like access the internet or your GPS, but that's assuming it obeys the normal rules.
I've been working with computers for over 20 years and know the risk that revealing personal information can pose. I change my passwords every couple months, and for some sites, change my username on occasion. Every website you visit is tracked and stored by your ISP, and every download you make, including torrents, is tracked. I don't enter credit card data online, I'll pay someone the cash and get them to make purchases for me with their card if I need something. I don't reveal my real name or much personal information about myself, other than basic things like that I work and have kids. Your IP address is stored by almost every website you visit, and if you allow cookies you are being tracked by multiple websites across your entire internet experience until you delete them. All this may sound extreme, and it is, but it's all true. Now, is it really that bad? If you're not smart about it, yeah, it can be. I can name over a dozen people I know that had some form of identity theft or credit card fraud in the last year alone, some due to sheer stupidity, others due to bad luck.
Now, whose spyware is worse, Microsoft or Verizon? Microsoft forces you to make a new account when you have a new installation of Windows, generally leaving the default Administrator account created but disabled, unless you're savvy enough to enable the default Administrator account during installation and use that one as your primary account, thereby leaving the computer open to anyone with a Windows boot CD able to take over your computer with admin rights. While not technically spyware, it's a dumbass move. Verizon stores everything you do, every website you visit, every text you send, and then lies to you about it. Still, not technically spyware, but shady to say the least. Microsoft can remotely access any computer with Windows on it, even if you have it disabled, and now Verizon can access our phone, even if we don't want them to. Both claim they wouldn't use this without our consent, but how do we really know? Once again, bleak, but true.
So, you want to use the internet, but don't want your information stolen or used against you. How do you minimize personal information on the internet? Don't use your real name, don't use your credit card to make purchases, use a proxy server logged into another proxy server to prevent website tracking, don't text or instant message any information you don't want police to see, use the default administrator account on Windows with a password, preferably a 12+ character password with capital letters and symbols. Don't use the same username across many websites, alternate difficult to crack passwords and change them out on a semi-regular basis. Never store passwords on your computer! That's one of the biggest problems I've seen. Perform full-drive encryption on your hard drive, turn your computer off when not in use. Don't leave webcams plugged in when you're not using them, and just don't be stupid.
In our society, it's really difficult to not use electronics, and eventually something about yourself is going to come out. When you've been working with computers and their users as long as I have, it's hard not to have seen so many horror stories which spawned this post. Most people aren't going to have a problem which requires all that, but I've taken a largely preemptive stance toward privacy on the internet. If I Google my name, I get a few references in family tree websites, which don't really uniquely identify me, and am mentioned in a couple posts on a few websites, like a company I used to work for which hasn't updated its site in years but keeps paying for web services. While this type of severe privacy isn't necessary for most people, I've never had a single account hacked, never been a victim of identity theft/fraud, and still manage to enjoy myself on the internet. Sure, a Facebook with my real name and a picture of me wouldn't be the end of the world, but I just don't need that to continue enjoying myself. Randomly-named Facebook with a few close friends and family and a picture of the sunset from the beach in California I took last summer while on vacation with my kids are enough.
Sorry this rant has gone on so long. I just have strong opinions due to scenarios I've seen first-hand, and don't want that to happen to me. I guess I'm a privacy freak. lol. It's all your fault, Nyobie, you opened up a can of worms!
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Click to collapse
amen
You can now use TOR on your phone. Search for it in google play, or better yet, download the APK online without letting google know. I'm pretty sure root access gives you much more control as well. It will be the first addition to my new unlocked phone. We are living in an age where privacy is almost nonexistent. Entire personal lives are at our finger tips... Call me paranoid, but I just don't like being spied on or tracked. Proxify yourself. Use TOR + widecap. Learn how the internet operates. You never know who is watching..
Hi,
with all media attention related to NSA spy activities.
How does one know this all happening here is not related to NSA activities?
If i'm correct the bloatware a provider installs when you bought it gives nsa access or gives provider unwanted access.
Maybe i'm thinking too much, but even NSA could bring out a rom which looks great and so and you think it's save and not accessing your private details, mic or camera.
Just a thought i had.
(on duckduckgo.com there was this advertising for save internet and cyanomod, thatss how i came here)
Thanks !
Have you been abusing ice or something ?
haha no, just curious that's all. As you know google ain't clean either in terms of privacy. And Android is Google.....
But no, i like what's happening here, it was just a thought.
Alright...
Intelligence agencies can already essentially look at whatever they want whenever they want via direct access to all networks. They can break a lot of encryption. Most operating systems (whether phone/PC/whatever) either have some NSA designed bits (I.E SELinux) or 'backdoors' which enable them to access even the most tightly 'locked up' systems.
I very much doubt they need to release a bit of 'crapware' or an OS of their own given the above. Though I can imagine in certain cases they custom design an exploit for a particular individual or organisation they want keep tabs on, but I can't imagine they'd want to do it to ordinary phone users en masse in the manner you suggested.
They already 'passively' surveil just about everyone (I.E collect all data but tend not to look at it unless they need to), so they don't need to do what you mentioned.
In my view opensource system has an advantage that you can check the source code yourself for a potential backdoor.
Most of the ROMs here are opensource so you can download, check, compile and install.
However you do not have 100% opensource devices - you have for example radio drivers which we just trust they will send data to correct receiver and in correct format...
I don't think it is proven SELINUX introduces backdoor or was it? If yes, I'm very interested to see it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security-Enhanced_Linux. Everything is backdoored.
MistahBungle said:
Alright...
Intelligence agencies can already essentially look at whatever they want whenever they want via direct access to all networks. They can break a lot of encryption. Most operating systems (whether phone/PC/whatever) either have some NSA designed bits (I.E SELinux) or 'backdoors' which enable them to access even the most tightly 'locked up' systems.
I very much doubt they need to release a bit of 'crapware' or an OS of their own given the above. Though I can imagine in certain cases they custom design an exploit for a particular individual or organisation they want keep tabs on, but I can't imagine they'd want to do it to ordinary phone users en masse in the manner you suggested.
They already 'passively' surveil just about everyone (I.E collect all data but tend not to look at it unless they need to), so they don't need to do what you mentioned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes you're right. it totaaly agree.
thanks a lot for your answer.
MistahBungle said:
Everything is backdoored.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I checked Wikipedia SELinux Entry. I remember Linus's nodding, however there is no hint it was with relation of SELinux.
I found another discussion on this topic and I agree with the point that "It would be singularly dumb of them to inject backdoors in their own name."
Time will show.
Anyway - if you do not trust it, you can turn it off completely or use an alternative - AppArmor - which does not come from NSA.
When I connected to the colleges wifi this morning I noticed a little message when I used wifi assist, I'm starting not to trust Google anymore or seems like they are shooting on us more and more each day
It's like 15 years ago and we're all suspicious of what they do.
I won't even mention Project Fi, but have you read any of Google's data disclaimers?
Can you not turn it off? It's likely just a Google VPN. They probably decided this is preferable to the alternative of letting average users connect to an open WiFi with SSID "Starbucks" that's actually someone running a WiFi hotspot in their car in the parking lot
LOL,
---------- Post added at 06:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 PM ----------
LOL, I am neither scared or ashamed of anything Google knows about me. In the end whats it worth?
popper668 said:
LOL,
---------- Post added at 06:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 PM ----------
LOL, I am neither scared or ashamed of anything Google knows about me. In the end whats it worth?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont mean to turn this into a big discussion but to answer your question, the data has value. In the book 1984 there were "telescreens" everywhere (devices that work as TV & camera. Sound familiar?) The point is there isnt always someone spying on you. BUT there COULD be at any given time. And when people think theyre being watched they generally behave different.
Just another way of looking at it. Because I think most people believe the way you do--theyre not breaking laws so they have nothing to hide. Its a low bar in terms of privacy which should be everyone's right.
KLit75 said:
I dont mean to turn this into a big discussion but to answer your question, the data has value. In the book 1984 there were "telescreens" everywhere (devices that work as TV & camera. Sound familiar?) The point is there isnt always someone spying on you. BUT there COULD be at any given time. And when people think theyre being watched they generally behave different.
Just another way of looking at it. Because I think most people believe the way you do--theyre not breaking laws so they have nothing to hide. Its a low bar in terms of privacy which should be everyone's right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand, consider Google as data trade off, give and take.
You supply data to improve their services, pedestrian data, locations, etc,
They provide you the same data although compiled and applied, when you open google maps for example, and ask for directions.
The data you provide to them is not "personal" per se, but used to improve general services which every user uses and accesses.
You can always stop it.
I don't feel like this should be a surprise to anyone. Google is Google. Their data collection isn't exactly a secret. It would be naive to think the services they provide don't collect at least some data on you in some form. At the end of the day, I do value and enjoy what they provide me. I personally don't mind trading some of my privacy for it. But I do acknowledge what they are doing and I don't pretend like they're providing all these services for free because they're nice.
"Oooooh, google is monitoring my network activity. Here, let me put my all life in Facebook."
This is old news! A concern might be the intrusive big bro gov cia, nsa, fbi, hs, etc...
MidnightDevil said:
I understand, consider Google as data trade off, give and take.
You supply data to improve their services, pedestrian data, locations, etc,
They provide you the same data although compiled and applied, when you open google maps for example, and ask for directions.
The data you provide to them is not "personal" per se, but used to improve general services which every user uses and accesses.
You can always stop it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasnt implying this specific case was grounds for outrage. My concern is people dont fully grasp that information is power and despite that theres a growing attitude of nonchalance . Sure you can turn it off here but you have to care, and to care you need to be informed. I dont mean purposely trading data for access to apps, features or helping to improve services. Thats different.
Id also point to the story (which should've been huge) from just a couple weeks back. Yahoo willingly allowed state sponsored hackers to access millions of user accounts. None of the customers were aware, neither the well informed nor the ones who care. And my biggest grievance with this is its not quite the breaking news it should be. The fact that many would consider me paranoid or a conspiracy theorists because this disturbs me is the most concerning part.
***I dont really mean xda members since they seem to be more knowledgeable about privacy. But the general population isnt really catching up.
Here's a link to what they mean by this message.
https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/6327199?hl=en
The only thing Google collects through Wi-Fi assist is location and ssid/bssid. If you actually researched this stuff you are so worried about you would be a lot more concerned with what your phone carrier does with your data than Google any day of the week...
Sent from my Nexus 6P using XDA-Developers mobile app
Bounty44 said:
The only thing Google collects through Wi-Fi assist is location and ssid/bssid. If you actually researched this stuff you are so worried about you would be a lot more concerned with what your phone carrier does with your data than Google any day of the week...
Sent from my Nexus 6P using XDA-Developers mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well i guess that is true but i've seen a lot of research about google and they collect everything... like the average google phone user, they let google acces to all their information/location... specailly with all those people that keep everything on like GPS. But its the same with Windows or Facebook, all those privacy settings that are by default on. Its all about the money and control over the masses... also for NSA/FBI/CIA very handy.... its not that weird to know that they have access to all those systems if they need to, thats no secret. It's all about if you got nothing to hide... everybody has something to hide. I keep tabs on all my privacy settings of all my apps as far as i can go. I accept certain privacy breaches but thats ok, thats the world we live in and i accept that. The same with people that dont mind all those freaking ads on their phone and websites..... for me mind boggeling. Especially here on xda forum, people that keep everything stock with no adjustments... first thing for me is that adaway has to work....
Here in The Netherlands, we have laws for ISP's and phone carriers, they collect but cant use it for other purposes then for criminal justice orders. Google has no laws to ibide here in Holland, they can collect en use your data unrestricted.
rayraycarter4 said:
When I connected to the colleges wifi this morning I noticed a little message when I used wifi assist, I'm starting not to trust Google anymore or seems like they are shooting on us more and more each day
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its a VPN that Google provides on open WIFI Hot spots in order to ensure that your data is not being being intercepted while you're connected to that network. I have project fi and thats one of the benefits of the service, and also because a good portion of the service relies on silently connecting to google approved wifi host spots all over the country. In order to ensure your data is not at risk, because all someone would need to do is create their own wifi hotspot with the unique name that google uses and they could steal info from anyone who happened to connect to their base. As long as they forward you to the internet while the connection is active then you wouldn't even notice there was anything wrong. Google is the most benevolent corporation on the planet. I highly doubt that anyone need worry about any data they collect as I'm sure its all being used for the purposes of trying to provide new technology based on what the consumer wants and at a price that makes you wonder how they are still the top technology company in the world because they surely have to be losing money with the prices they charge for their goods and services.
So you're connecting to an open wifi AP and you're scared about your privacy?
You do know that your connection to the AP is unencrypted and by that fact, people have been spying on you for ages?
That's what I do regularly when I go in hotels and I'm bored because there's nothing on TV.
Hi Guys, just bought the Galaxy Note 8 from T-mobile,
I started the phone without logging in, and it was working fine, but as soon as I logged in, it does not allow me to log out.
It asked me to fully reset the phone, but I need blackberry for work app and park mobile app,, so if i reset, i will loose it.
Q1.) do you know how to can I logout without reset?
Q2.) if I reset, is it possible to sideloade those two apps?
Q3.) is there any alternate market?
when I try to go to
"cloud and account" --> "accounts" --> select "google" --> on account profile page menu --> "remove account" --> ack "remove account"
gives me message , "
Remove account
" Account is needed by some apps. You can only remove it by resetting device to factory defaults(which deletes all personal data). To do this go to setting > Backup and reset"
then "backup and reset" requires/forces me to create a "samsung account" and still I cant logout without restting.
I called T-mo. they were trying to help, but they couldnt' and told me only samsung can help, but "samsung" is not willing to help, not replying my email or private tweets,
Every person has their own level of tolerance for privacy, I am not looking for advises on why I want to log out, I need help on how to logout.
since I use it for work I can't root , blackberry app will not work.
Model: SM-N950U
Android V: 7.1.1
Samsung Experience V: 8.5
android security patch: oct 1, 2017
Kernal: 4.4.21-12461033
knox: 2.9
pls. help
It looks like this is called FRP (Factory Reset Protection) program, provided by Samsung..
objective is to prevent anyone from stilling your phone and reset it and use it.
but why not use samsung account ? why to use google account for this? they are too creepy if you logged in?
there are few instructions on removing sync , accounts.db and accounts.journal files, is it safe? is it going to screwup the phone ?
is there is no opt-in/opt-out for FRP?
The problem is that the apps that you installed is part of your account. So you need to add another Google account. Then any free app with no in-app purchases will also be part of that account. Any app that you have that is paid and/or in-app purchases attached to that Google account to it will need to be removed in order not to need to reset the device. The reason is that any app that you purchased or in-app purchased is attached to that Google account and can't be transferred to another account and can't be used without being logged into that Google account.
FYI - You can use Amazon app store for apps while signed in to any Google account or not even signed in to any Google account. You will still be signed into Amazon account. Amazon Store side load apps. So you need to give your device permission to side load apps.
Samsung Store is okay, but not forward thinking. Since you will need to stay with Samsung devices to keep using apps from Samsung account. That is the reason that I said Amazon App Store is much better alternative app store.
And you can still have more than one Google account signed in on your device as well.
But if you are not signed in any Google account your device will be limited usage. After all going for Android is going for its Eco-system. Just as when you go for iSO (Apple) is going for Apple Eco-system. That (Eco-system) is what we should be using as the first part of our decision in which device (Android or iOS (Apple) to get. Hardware should be the last part in our decision making when choosing which device to get. App neutrality doesn't really work 100% (for varies of reasons). So Eco-system should be THE FIRST PART of your decision.
If you don't want any company access to your information then go for a flip-phone and pen/paper.
Thanks!
I have my old galaxy S4 , where I can logout at will. so the advantages is you are not syncing your contacts, your location, search, youtube etc, and still use apps (including in-app purchase apps).
Currently if I have a fever, they tack that too, it is too intrusive..
I have never purchased an in-app item, never, and I have no intention too. but still my cc is at risk if one of my kids do it ( I know there are options berried in the settings to disable it) , but now apps also can access my contacts loc etc through google account.
if ppl can hack/steal govt data, this is nothing, like Equifax, they just apologized but no consequences.. CEO is not in the jail.. so why not to give options to their own users? why take/force decision for us? ( if I want to protect my phone and does not allow anyone to reset and start it --I need to stay logged in -- may be ok, although I think there are way to enforce that without giving up your privacy),
in anycase I am just looking to log out keeping those two apps.
Well......, too late for Samsung and Google for not getting that data. They all got that data very quickly when you first got into Android and Samsung devices. The same goes for Apple devices with Apple having your data (Apple calls that "Apple ID" information (data) that gets stored in the "Apple Cloud").
When it comes to your data (data that connects to you):
Your carrier like T-Mobile always have and logs your location with their tower's location and/or nods. As well as your web search, YouTubing, etc is logged not only by the search (Google, Microsoft, etc) and content provider (Youtube, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Sling, Pandora, Spotify, Apple, etc), but also your carrier too, like T-Mobile. If you use VPN service they logged your activity as well. Anytime you use Microsoft Office you are being logged by Microsoft too. Each app you use you are being logged by that developer, content provider, App Store that you got the apps from, ISP carrier (like T-mobile), and others. Logging out of your Google and Samsung accounts is not going to stop that.
So.... At that point, the only thing to do is enjoy the services or go for a flip-phone and pen/paper.
I use the finger print reader to protect app purchases and in-app purchases from my son. Works like a charm.
You can stop your device from syncing your contacts to Google and Samsung (This setting is in Contacts apps and in account settings). Then just backup your contacts with Samsung's Contacts app by just exporting a (VCF) file to your SDcard. Then you can import contacts from the (VCF) file. But the last Contacts that was synced to Google and/or Samsung will still be there with them.
At the end:
The Note series is designed for cloud based business and entertainment usage. That is despite that Samsung allows local usage. Still this Galaxy Note 8 is designed to be really a powerful cloud connected based business and entertainment usage device. Gone of the old PDA devices (local based usage devices). Once they put in cellular and WiFi radios within the PDA these devices have change forever.This includes tablets.
Sorry!
Thank you for you reply!
I wished there was a comprehensive law. Europe at least has an active body to do it..
Tmo/carriers --I think (at least now), might not be after your very personal data, and we already gave our ssn when we signed up, we have seen multiple times that they have easily lost that data too.. (like Target)
but Google or FB on the other end are on different level, they intervene with your life. I wonder how much they must be (paying ) lobbying senators and house reps, to keep away from bringing bills on privacy..
the last privacy law was 1974 and last revision was on 2004, that too only dictating how govt should store/use data , nothing about corporates.
I would go to flipphones, the only reason I am on the new phone is the there are new bands on Tmo that are not supported on my S4, and have no/very weak signal, so I dont think flip-phone option is there at all
but hopefully, there will be some kind of control over it. but before that I wished these CEOs had some moral, or the big schools should have taught them 1 class on morality
sendi_t34 said:
Hi Guys, just bought the Galaxy Note 8 from T-mobile,
I started the phone without logging in, and it was working fine, but as soon as I logged in, it does not allow me to log out.
It asked me to fully reset the phone, but I need blackberry for work app and park mobile app,, so if i reset, i will loose it.
Q1.) do you know how to can I logout without reset?
Q2.) if I reset, is it possible to sideloade those two apps?
Q3.) is there any alternate market?
when I try to go to
"cloud and account" --> "accounts" --> select "google" --> on account profile page menu --> "remove account" --> ack "remove account"
gives me message , "
Remove account
" Account is needed by some apps. You can only remove it by resetting device to factory defaults(which deletes all personal data). To do this go to setting > Backup and reset"
then "backup and reset" requires/forces me to create a "samsung account" and still I cant logout without restting.
I called T-mo. they were trying to help, but they couldnt' and told me only samsung can help, but "samsung" is not willing to help, not replying my email or private tweets,
Every person has their own level of tolerance for privacy, I am not looking for advises on why I want to log out, I need help on how to logout.
since I use it for work I can't root , blackberry app will not work.
Model: SM-N950U
Android V: 7.1.1
Samsung Experience V: 8.5
android security patch: oct 1, 2017
Kernal: 4.4.21-12461033
knox: 2.9
pls. help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Notices this too on the latest T-Mo firmware. Nope. No way to logout without factory reset. Exactly what that screen says. You will have to factory reset from the settings, like it or not.
You can always go to apk mirror to look for the apps and install them. But if any require you to log into a Google account, then you'll be back where you started. Sorry.
I understand why its frustrating, but it is what it is I don't mind it, cause I don't care what Google knows about me., and find their services extremely convenient. My mom won't even get a smart thermostat because she's scared the government is watching her utility usage. Me? I tell my Google Home to change the temp on my Nest Thermostat, cause I prefer convenience.
Thanks for your opinion and suggestions!
As I said, everyone has their level of tolerance. I wouldnt mind giving the information if I can control it, but this is actually intruding. like creep. ( like not letting us log out, making decision for you as if you are dumb).
I also would like convince sure, but would you like
1.) If your kids are graded over google class room, and the full academic-history is recorded there, in future your potential employer will be able to request it without even your knowledge, same thing as "agree all"
For your little convince "now" your are giving up your (or your kids )future by letting them think that this is acceptable or this is "new reality" and ppl will forgive or ppl are adaptive.. I sincerely wish you give one thought to it.
Tomorrow, they will tell you this food it good for you and you should't eat this or that.. you will say "oh I prefer convince that it is telling me what to do for my health" -- next thing you know it does not even "allow you to eat anything else." -- like it is not allowing me to log out -- b/c I dont loose the phone --making decision for me--
you can wait for that day or try to consider a "little less" convenience ..
I am not that old, at least that's what I think , but I assume old ppl. have some prejudice with govt and I dont know why... but I dont have that, govt can track it , but they dont have any corporate interest at least.
I can give more examples when you search up a deceases or your kids are in trouble everything is recorded. (no 2nd chance for them). I am not convince that you are willing to weigh those things with minor inconvenience of setting temp on your nest thermostat from your computer or logging in again and again with your fingerprints when required ..
Thank you for putting your perspective. I hope that we as a consumer see beyond apparent
Like I said before :
Both Apple and Google have you log into your account (Apple ID if it is iOS or Google account if it is Android) for their mobile devices (both tablets and "smartphones").
If you don't want this then:
Use a flip phone and pen/paper.
The things are that you have a choice and that is your choice.
On The Side Talk - I worked for some of these corporations. I find that they have less interest in your and your family's personal lives. They want customers. And the future is going towards device assistant future. That is the future our children and their children will live in the future. As business you want that piece of that pie. And for customers it is a way to have always on assistance.
What I worry about is the govs into your personal lives. It doesn't take much work for the gov agencies and law agencies in stitching in your activities and activities of people you connect with into a crime or would be crime without you doing the crime and without you planning a crime. That is what both individuals and business don't want. That is much more danger than any corporation. Meaning that I don't have any fear of any corporation becoming a gov. But I do believe we need to be aware of what the govs can and will do with your data.
When it comes to corporations my largest fear is what they will do to our accessing the whole Internet since net neutrality is reversed.
Thanks!
Sure. It sounds like 90's Microsoft saying if you dont want to use IE "your are not forced to" just dont use it , but there is no other option, but now it is cool b/c google/aaple is saysing it? same as we dont have any option for cable only optimum or comcast RCN or TWC in perticular area only one is available..
but I think we dont want to pick up another topic on this this very important subject of privacy. Net-Neutrality is very important we can open another thread.
" I worked for some of these corporations. I find that they have less interest in your and your family's personal lives" -- I bag to differ strongly. only thing they care about is "bottom line" they dont/can't (since that there business model) give a dime about your privacy..
Since you have worked for these big corporations, let me pick your brains, what do you think about Wells fargo case where false/dummy , without permissions, accounts were created.. the banks objective is to make money available/make markets/provide basic banking services -- "do you think htey have less interest in your information?"
Where as google /insta/ FB's bread and butter is Your informaiton.. do you still think they have less interest? the whole economics is based on your infromation.. while you were there what was the pricing model? on top ad. when you search for "fever", I assume there will be a real time "bidding" between aspirin/advil/ tylenol to show up as the 1st link, + bidding on your location by riteaid, walgreen, cvs, DR etc. the more the information(like age,women,kids, other conditions, are you searching it again in howmany months? is it cyclic issue can I market every month on these dates? there you go for data science .. etc) the more the price of the link since you can market other drugs too.. or children medecine on the local store.
thisi s a very basic thought, although I have not worked for those big companies.. so i dont have as much experience as you do.. let me know how they do it.. if not using our information.
Everyone needs to be aware of their data that is accessible to the public and semi-public. This is and was very true much longer than we average people had computers within our daily lives. Remember the cold war fears of whom was a communist, fascist, socialist, etc? You can look into the days of witch hunts. And go much further in time. In the data accessible world it is even more important to be aware of your data in the public and semi-public.
But that should not stop you from living the life of a modern person in the modern world.
With Google, you have the choice what data is public, semi-public and semi-private and totally private. So you have that power of what data is accessible and to whom that data is accessible to.
But I can understand if someone is in fear of what data the governments (including law enforcement agencies) can get to and have access. Corporations don't control that. In fact tech corporations rather the governments (including law enforcement agencies) not have any ability to access the data. Basically it is bad business for tech corporations in the governments (including law enforcement agencies) to have access of people's data, because of the lack of trust to the tech corporations due to governments (including law enforcement agencies) hands in people's data. Again, tech corporations don't have that kind of power to stop governments (including law enforcement agencies) from accessing the data beyond certain legal points. That is why I said "Both individuals and corporations don't want this".
We just got to be aware of what data we have out there, how the data is accessible, and to whom has access to that data. Then make intelligent decisions of what data we allow out there and to whom will have access to each data. Then practice this throughout our modern lives in this modern world.
What I do agree is that there should be "Personal Data Awareness within the Internet" classes for each child. This class would teach children the facts in the dangers of their own personal data on the Internet and how to protect themselves & their own data. I feel that this is important.
To answer your bank question: When it comes to banks. They are much different from the tech industry in so many ways. And yes, the financial industry did caused the great recession ten years ago.
I kind of agree with some of your points.
But one basic difference that you are confusing or merging corporate with governments. I am not referring government, I am okay with govt having data or even tracking since that is for security (at least I want to believe that ) , otherwize based on above logic somebody will say if you don't like it leave usa -- like if you dont want google to track you dont use google/apple/fb right?
The basic problem is, why google/apple/FB needs to carry so much personalized data? and not give us control? a basic thing like log out, even if I "log out," they can still feed me localized ads, since they have my ip and device id.. only thing is they can not say this is "sendi" who did the search ( even though they can indirectly figure it).. they can not "profile" a user. remember a few months ago when Law and Enforcement ppl. were stopping and you had to show your legal docs? and there was a huge public outcry..
But now google/apple/FB etc tracks you more than that is it still cool?
Once you (or someone else --think revenge) "post" pic/contact/vid etc on google/FB/Apple/Insta , the privacy policy you signed "agree all" makes that google/FB "property", and you have to beg them to take it out.. in the name of modern society, are you willing to bite that ?
I am not against new technology, I like and trade in crypto, but you need to have technology help you live better life, not creep you ... or make it immutable, force, all negativity they are bringing.. It is like having so much power and no responsibility ..
This is case of Moral and Ethics, Google/Apple will only act if it "come out" .. like memo from google a few months ago and publicized.. like Uber CEO case (how they operate) do you think they care about anything unless it come into media?.
https://www.boston.com/news/untagged/2015/03/24/how-to-try-to-get-your-nude-photos-removed-from-the-internet
Boston.com talked to Mitchell J. Matorin, a Wellesley-based lawyer, and Lissa McKinney, an Acton-based attorney, about some of the ways to try to get these photos removed. Matorin said that, under the act, victims trying to get photos removed can turn to federal criminal law, intellectual property law, and, in some cases, state law.
Alleging copyright infringement is a victim’s best bet, he said.
If a victim’s photo is posted without her consent, she still owns the copyright as long as she took it herself. If her partner took the photo—with or without consent—he owns the copyright unless he agrees to transfer it.
A victim who owns a copyright must file the image with the U.S. copyright office, which will then submit a copyright number to indicate that it has been registered in a federal database. Once the image has been granted a copyright number, she can sue for infringement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You cant take out your picture , (even if it is yours) , you need a lawyer + proof (meaning take that pic again , show it to copywrite ppl, and prove it) and then websites take it out.. where are apples 267 billions in cash sponsoring that bill? for us to trust them they they wont misuse anyone's privacy?
Again: We are responsible for our own data. What others do with the data that they have with them (including the data that they downloaded from public or what you gave them or someone you gave the data gave them) is out of the tech industry's hands (outside of copyright data that the tech company may need proof of before taking action). Believe you me you don't want the tech industry to start being the police on the Internet.
Tech industry will always be on the side of "freedom of speech". Yes they have been and are being fired back from this "freedom of speech" from the public and the governments with this in several different directions. This is a fine line. And the tech companies are not the Internet police. And you don't want the governments to be the Internet police either.
The "right to be forgotten" breaks the Internet in the same way that censorship and no net neutrality does. The "right to be forgotten" makes the information on the Internet as much of a lie as "fake news" does by hiding the facts (data) through limiting and even stopping the data from getting to the public. That is how it breaks the Internet.
I am not saying that people in the tech industry doesn't do things wrong or don't do what is becoming the modern times socially unacceptable. After all we all are humans and the exceptions of the modern world is in a huge movement of change. As we and our technologies moves us closer in many ways our exceptions of what is acceptable changes. I remember that it was normal to of found your love in or around your workplace (after all you live most of your time at work). Now days looking at someone in wrong way (without realizing you doing it) or even an unconscious blink of your eyes towards someone is unacceptable. Yet at the same time: blasting your music and videos out loud in public places & around other people (that don't want to hear/watch the stuff), legal drug use in CA (marijuana), and street gang clothing style fully with the street gang attitude to boot is fully acceptable in our world at this current moment in time.
What a twisted world we are currently living in right now where: We are not allow to even unconsciously blink our eyes towards the wrong person. Yet we can't speak against certain things what we may find offensive and even dangerous without being considered as discriminative, dangerous, and all around bad in the eyes of the modern public. While other things get way too much attention from the public. Like I find the street gang life style with the street gang attitude to boot, drug infested, blast your stuff in public with no regard to anyone else type culture to be more dangerous and offensive on a larger scale then a few bad behaviors & few bad apples within the business world. Business world always needs cleaning up in their behavior, that I agree and support. But there are much worse things that need more attention. And yet, I would be consider as a bad person with all the dressings that I mentioned above to think this way in this modern world. That is truly messed up.
The tech industry is not responsible for the data leaks either. Look onto the bad "black hat" (lack of a better terminology) hackers and governments for that. The tech industry is doing their best to stop the leaks (hacks). And the tech industry is not responsible for how the non-tech industries responds. It is up to each company to weigh the risk of when to tell the public of such leaks. If they tell the public too soon they can put the data even more risk before they can fix the problem. And the knowledge of the leak can bring scare to the public that can create more damage in many ways than it can help. Things like these are the reasons for not telling the public or delays of such knowledge like leaks. And not all these companies are tech companies. So they may not understand what happened nor the risk involved.
The tech industry is not the monster. They, like all of us, are just part of the times of this world that we live in that is going through its own changes.
Again: Know the risk, what data you have and want out there, whom should and may have access to it and how the data can be accessed. Then make your decisions from there.
Again: Protecting our privacy is very important to corporations. Since consumer's trust means business to corporations. Losing consumer's trust means lower profits.
Fears, half baked knowledge, half-truths, true data in wrong content/s, and conspiracy theories doesn't help.