Guys i pre-ordered a TFPrime from amazon UK and will be getting it shortly (12-Jan). However after watching a few reviews, etc, I noticed the Wifi / GPS seems really buggy which could be a deal breaker for me. Can anyone share their experiences? Any workaround?
Wifi Issues: youtube.com/watch?v=nzCZc3pjtrA
GPS Issues: youtube.com/watch?v=YeiOh09v54I
dereking said:
Guys i pre-ordered a TFPrime from amazon UK and will be getting it shortly (12-Jan). However after watching a few reviews, etc, I noticed the Wifi / GPS seems really buggy which could be a deal breaker for me. Can anyone share their experiences? Any workaround?
Wifi Issues: youtube.com/watch?v=nzCZc3pjtrA
GPS Issues: youtube.com/watch?v=YeiOh09v54I
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really?
You can't spit in any direction on this forum without hitting a thread that talks about these issues...why do you need yet another thread? A solution to these, if they are deal breakers for you, is to not buy the Prime.
Yep i guess your post signature leaves it clear... "Asus Transformer Prime (Waiting on a replacement) "
Wifi seems to be fine GPS is wacky but will get fixed
Yes wifi and gps have issues. Be careful about saying anything bad about the Prime in these forums.
A lot of town criers...
The WiFi is working fine, at least with mine anyways. GPS is still broken, but I have faith in ASUS that they'll come up with a fix.
You guys are killing me with this. I was hell bent on purchasing a Prime & Keyboard as soon as stock arrived. I checked all the reviews. I knew about it's pros & it's cons. I was sold. It was just a fluke that I wound up searching about the Prime's GPS accuracy and all of the BS ASUS has been covering up surfaced.
I'm not going to drop nearly $700 on a fancy toy if:
1. WiFi sucks. Especially on a portable device. That simply makes no sense.
2. GPS doesn't work. --I go to UC, so this bad boy needs to be LoJacked. I've seen too many laptops & tablets "walk off and disappear" during lecture.
3. Paying $700 for anything that doesn't have all of it's features intact is a non-starter.
ASUS makes great video cards & motherboards. But they need to get their sh*t together on this device if they plan to stay in tablet game.
Not gonna lie. I got my prime last week thru BB pre order and my GPS and wifi are working great! Not sure why other people $are having issues with this.
Early models did have hardware issues. (especially with wifi)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1394611
This is one reason why you don't want to rush to get one.
A lot of people will state that their wifi and gps is working just fine, but they dont really know any better...
Wifi works but its got a very slow upload and download speed. They may be thinking GPS works but not realize they are using wifi location.
But yes on every unit regardless of what others may say. Wifi does not work as good as it should and GPS doesn't work at all.
And if it is any indication...
TF101 shipped with screen bleed & loose casing defects, to this very day Asus has not bothered to fix the issue.
jzen said:
A lot of people will state that their wifi and gps is working just fine, but they dont really know any better...
Wifi works but its got a very slow upload and download speed. They may be thinking GPS works but not realize they are using wifi location.
But yes on every unit regardless of what others may say. Wifi does not work as good as it should and GPS doesn't work at all.
And if it is any indication...
TF101 shipped with screen bleed & loose casing defects, to this very day Asus has not bothered to fix the issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is with bad Internet aka not what I normally use. Through a few walls about 30 from the really crappy router at my mom's house.
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I would say my wifi is fine. GPS is useless though. Don't say people don't know what they are talking about when you don't know them.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
jzen said:
A lot of people will state that their wifi and gps is working just fine, but they dont really know any better...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With so many people reporting problems with GPS and WiFi strength it's become almost a complete certainty that these devices are suffering from some sort of severe design flaw.
I wasn't on the design team for this device, so take anything I say with a grain of salt, but I am quite savvy as an engineer so I'll drop my 2 cents on this issue.
From my standpoint it's appears to be DEFINITELY the aluminum chassis. Aluminum is quite good at reflecting/bouncing RF signals at a focal point (receiver). When crafted correctly, aluminum is great at bouncing rf signals. When used incorrectly, aluminum is great at dispersing and blocking rf signals.
However, as frequency increases, so does penetration. This is most likely why people have been able to notice relatively normal WiFi strengths. Even at wireless-g speeds they're operating at as low as 2.4GHz and up to 5GHz. However CIV GPS operate at around 1.1GHz. In this case, the aluminum shell has turned the GPS unit's "moderate voice" into a "whimper" when it attempts to lock & fix on satellites. -- Think tin foil hats, but for your GPS & WiFi
I also believe ASUS outfitted the Prime with 2 WiFi antennas whereas I believe the GPS only has a single antenna. I won't speak for ASUS's design decisions, but I wouldn't doubt they opted for 2 antennas to deal with the interference from the aluminum casing. However, that's simply my speculation. Why they botched this tablet so badly just to conform to a silly aesthetic design boggles my mind. As Spock would say, "their decisions were highly illogical."
jzen said:
And if it is any indication...
TF101 shipped with screen bleed & loose casing defects, to this very day Asus has not bothered to fix the issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They'd be wise to rethink that choice.
I'm right now wondering if WiFi on my TF101 is OK, because it doesn't get a lock i a room adjacent to the one with the router while laptop in the same place has 3 to 4 bars! So if people say their WiFi and GPS are fine take it with a grain of sand. It's not easy to check them properly in a short time.
don_cheadle said:
With so many people reporting problems with GPS and WiFi strength it's become almost a complete certainty that these devices are suffering from some sort of severe design flaw.
I wasn't on the design team for this device, so take anything I say with a grain of salt, but I am quite savvy as an engineer so I'll drop my 2 cents on this issue.
From my standpoint it's appears to be DEFINITELY the aluminum chassis. Aluminum is quite good at reflecting/bouncing RF signals at a focal point (receiver). When crafted correctly, aluminum is great at bouncing rf signals. When used incorrectly, aluminum is great at dispersing and blocking rf signals.
However, as frequency increases, so does penetration. This is most likely why people have been able to notice relatively normal WiFi strengths. Even at wireless-g speeds they're operating at as low as 2.4GHz and up to 5GHz. However CIV GPS operate at around 1.1GHz. In this case, the aluminum shell has turned the GPS unit's "moderate voice" into a "whimper" when it attempts to lock & fix on satellites. -- Think tin foil hats, but for your GPS & WiFi
I also believe ASUS outfitted the Prime with 2 WiFi antennas whereas I believe the GPS only has a single antenna. I won't speak for ASUS's design decisions, but I wouldn't doubt they opted for 2 antennas to deal with the interference from the aluminum casing. However, that's simply my speculation. Why they botched this tablet so badly just to conform to a silly aesthetic design boggles my mind. As Spock would say, "their decisions were highly illogical."
They'd be wise to rethink that choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An aluminium shell like on the Transformer can only distort the signals a bit but not completely block it (like many are experiencing with GPS). That is probably because of a manufacturing defect and not because of the aluminium shell.
WiFi on this device is fine. I get over 11 mbps speeds on a 15 mbps cable connection.
GPS also locks within a reasonable amount of time when view of sky is unobstructed.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
flight777 said:
An aluminium shell like on the Transformer can only distort the signals a bit but not completely block it (like many are experiencing with GPS). That is probably because of a manufacturing defect and not because of the aluminium shell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually aluminum can do quite a bit to obstruct an RF signal. Depending on thickness, resistance can be quite high. While I somewhat agree it shouldn't be able to block a strong signal, the major function of GPS is to "listen", not to "talk." What I'm trying to say, is it is not producing strong signals, it's trying to receive them, and it's ability to listen is only as good as the ability of such signals to penetrate whatever is obstructing them. In this case, it's Aluminum.. which has quite a high resistance to RF.
mrljt said:
WiFi on this device is fine. I get over 11 mbps speeds on a 15 mbps cable connection.
GPS also locks within a reasonable amount of time when view of sky is unobstructed.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YOUR GPS also locks....
If you look at the poll in the GPS Problems thread you'll see that it's about 80 working GPSs to 50 non-working.
Just because yours locks, don't assume everyone else's does. Especially when there is a large amount of evidence to the contrary.
Col.Kernel said:
YOUR GPS also locks....
If you look at the poll in the GPS Problems thread you'll see that it's about 80 working GPSs to 50 non-working.
Just because yours locks, don't assume everyone else's does. Especially when there is a large amount of evidence to the contrary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got those numbers switched. It's around 50 working, and 80 not.
>However, as frequency increases, so does penetration
Higher frequency = shorter wavelength = less penetration. 5GHz wifi has shorter range than 2.4GHz wifi because it can't penetrate as well. Public hot spots only use 2.4GHz. More articulate explanations here. That wifi in the Prime is more functional than GPS is probably because wifi signals have more energy than the weak GPS signal.
I do agree that the Al shell is the main culprit, probably exacerbated by mediocre antenna design. I generally see better wireless performance from phone vendors (Moto, Samsung, HTC) than non-phone vendors (Acer, Asus).
>I'm right now wondering if WiFi on my TF101 is OK
Wifi on most mobiles will be less than that on laptops, because their antenna is usually much smaller and lacks diversity. Size isn't the only determinant in antenna gain, but it's a big determinant. Here are the GPS and wifi antennae on the OG Transformer.
Here is one (of many possible) design for laptop dual diversity antenna
You're right. I got the 2 switched. I distinctly remember writing that on the top of my cheat sheet in Phys. I'm sorry it's 2 am, and I can't brain.
Anyway, as for the signal strength, that's what I was saying earlier. I assume when you take into account considerable distances, even though routers are usually only pumping out around 250ma per antenna, they probably still yield much better signal strength than GPS satellites after the signal has reached the ground.
However aside from ASUS simply not attaching an antenna to GPS mod, it really can only be the aluminum shell creating such resistance. And the fact it seems to affect WiFi as well, although to a lesser degree, means it's most likely not a symptom faulty workmanship on part of the internals.
But as mentioned in other threads, it would be nice if someone tore the aluminum backing off of their brand new Prime to see if it's the real culprit.
Related
This came from the FCC teardown. I missed the antennae in my first look since they were only in the first pic, and pics are lo-res. But here you can see the wifi and GPS antennae mounted on the frontplate. These are located at the "top" of the Prime when held in landscape. (Pics have been sharpened.)
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The left PCB has two antennae, one is labeled GPS, and presumably the other is the main wifi ant.
The right PCB has the aux wifi (wlan) ant for spatial diversity.
Are we saying the GPS has TWO aluminum shields covering it?
Yep lmfao
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
PrimeTimeBro said:
Are we saying the GPS has TWO aluminum shields covering it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. The back cover is it.
Now we've confirmed the GPS antenna is on the front of the device, all this about the aluminium backplate killing GPS performance does surprise me. GPS signals, naturally, come from the sky. Assuming you're not holding the Prime upside-down, there's no aluminium between the satellites and the antenna?
I suppose it could inhibit picking up reflected signals, but would that be the difference between it working and not working? (It doesn't really seem to be in the spirit of GPS, either...)
Mithent said:
Now we've confirmed the GPS antenna is on the front of the device, all this about the aluminium backplate killing GPS performance does surprise me. GPS signals, naturally, come from the sky. Assuming you're not holding the Prime upside-down, there's no aluminium between the satellites and the antenna?
I suppose it could inhibit picking up reflected signals, but would that be the difference between it working and not working? (It doesn't really seem to be in the spirit of GPS, either...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pick up too much reflected noise and it will swamp out the signal gain.
Beards said:
Pick up too much reflected noise and it will swamp out the signal gain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't think it sounded desirable, no. So, if anything, having metal on the "wrong" side of the antenna could be beneficial, as far as GPS is concerned. Does make me wonder if the aluminium could be a red herring as regards to GPS performance (although it could be more of an issue for WiFi, since the access point could quite legitimately be below you).
Edit: Unless the aluminium back reflects signals back to the antenna and causes issues that way, of course. I don't know if that's likely.
Mithent said:
GPS signals, naturally, come from the sky. Assuming you're not holding the Prime upside-down, there's no aluminum between the satellites and the antenna?
I suppose it could inhibit picking up reflected signals, but would that be the difference between it working and not working? (It doesn't really seem to be in the spirit of GPS, either...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Beards said:
Pick up too much reflected noise and it will swamp out the signal gain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The two smartest things ive heard on the prime threads about GPS this week.
A lot of people seem to have the impression that GPS uses an omni antenna.
Im no radiology expert but is there material that absorbs radiowaves to stop the bounceback from smothering the GPS antenna?
A film of lead stuck on the backplate behind the GPS antenna comes to mind.
Okay, so now we know the antenna is covered by plastic and glass only towards the frontside of the Prime. That's good news.
I am still of the opinion that ICS may solve many of our issue, not because it's ICS but because ASUS actually spent time testing ICS and optimizing it, which is - obviously - not the fact for our current Honeycomb versions
Sokonomi said:
The two smartest things ive heard on the prime threads about GPS this week.
A lot of people seem to have the impression that GPS uses an omni antenna.
Im no radiology expert but is there material that absorbs radiowaves to stop the bounceback from smothering the GPS antenna?
A film of lead stuck on the backplate behind the GPS antenna comes to mind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't have to be lead. Radar dishes are made from aluminum.
Diamondback2009 said:
Okay, so now we know the antenna is covered by plastic and glass only towards the frontside of the Prime. That's good news.
I am still of the opinion that ICS may solve many of our issue, not because it's ICS but because ASUS actually spent time testing ICS and optimizing it, which is - obviously - not the fact for our current Honeycomb versions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact that a GPS antenna has a conical reception which is pointing up and away from the shield,
and the fact that people have indeed been reporting the clock behaving wonky leads me to believe the same.
GPS working sporadically and even getting a lock standing still does seem to prove it is indeed functioning.
Just a bit dodgy.
Nothing new, but another diagram from the FCC (WiFi SAR report 1 of 4, Report No. : FA182445-02)
robomo said:
Nothing new, but another diagram from the FCC (WiFi SAR report 1 of 4, Report No. : FA182445-02)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually this seems to be the best position to put any antennas in. The top bezel is hardly covered by hands or anything else.
I just did a short test of the Wifi antenna switching. It seems to work well for me:
Cover both WiFi antennas with your hands.
The Wifi reception should go lower
Now pull one hand away, the Wifi comes back to normal
Put the hand back on (both hands again) Wifi is worse again
Now pul lthe other hand away
Wifi signals are back to good levels again.
So at least for me the switching between the two Wifi antennas works.
Not entirely sure what the point is of installing wifi antenna diversity if both are in the exact same orientation.
To me it would make much more sense to put one at a 90' angle from the other,
so atleast one antenna polarity is in line with your router in both portrait and landscape mode.
Now it seems all or nothing?
Sokonomi said:
Not entirely sure what the point is of installing wifi antenna diversity if both are in the exact same orientation.
To me it would make much more sense to put one at a 90' angle from the other,
so atleast one antenna polarity is in line with your router in both portrait and landscape mode.
Now it seems all or nothing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check out the FCC Wi-Fi report for a look at orientation: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1423559
---------- Post added at 05:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 AM ----------
The above chart shows emissions at the edge of a 802.11n channel. The "Antenna polarity" I believe is referring to the orientation of the calibrated test antenna.
You'll notice that for
2483.5Mhz Horizontal (average)- 39.93 level
2483.5Mhz Vertical (average) - 36.94 level
The difference between vertical and horizontal seems to only be a few dB. It appears they've compensated for orientation fairly well with their antenna design.
>wifi antenna diversity if both are in the exact same orientation
Spatial diversity is different from what you're talking about, which is polarization diversity.
Wifi signals tend to be vertically polarized, although antenna design can allow dual polarization, which is why recent routers w/ internal ants can be mounted either horiz or vertical. The same would apply for ants of mobile devices, which can be held in various orientation.
GPS sigs are circularly polarized.
Interesting stuff. The seemingly parallel antennas threw me off,
as im used to fiddling with polarity a lot on my video drones.
"At your own risk"
Although it would void the warranty, one could take a Dremel cutter to the aluminum plate that sits over the Wifi and GPS antennas. It would provide a window exactly where the antennas are, and keep the backplate mostly in tact. This would probably increase the WiFi signal range and allow better GPS reception.
Step 2: fill in the window spaces with the plastic stuff e.mote posted below thanks e.mote
Not something I'm desperate to do, but it's an option for those who have no qualms about voiding warranty
Cover the cut-outs with this
http://www.amazon.com/InstaMorph-Moldable-Plastic-12-oz/dp/B003QKLJKQ
robomo said:
Although it would void the warranty, one could take a Dremel cutter to the aluminum plate that sits over the Wifi and GPS antennas. It would provide a window exactly where the antennas are, and keep the backplate mostly in tact. This would probably increase the WiFi signal range and allow better GPS reception.
Step 2: fill in the window spaces with the plastic stuff e.mote posted below thanks e.mote
Not something I'm desperate to do, but it's an option for those who have no qualms about voiding warranty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can see it now: take a dremmel and you slip and now you have a complete see-through to the front panel. hole in the back and hole in the front make for a good place to tie string and use the Prime as a Christmas decoration.
There’s been a lot of discussion about just how bad the Prime’s GPS is, especially for navigation, with some folks claiming theirs is “working.” There have even been claims it works in a moving car and someone posted this pic as proof.
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Six out of nine satellites with a 90’ accuracy while the Prime is completely horizontal on the dashboard and smashed forward against the windshield is piss poor and by no means a realistic example. If that’s the best it can do, it’s unusable for navigation. And that’s using GPS Test, not real navigation s/w.
I took these three vids today using a G-Tab to show what navigation typically looks like. I use navigation a lot while traveling and the Zoom and Jetstream perform identically. In other words there’s nothing special about the G-Tab or its performance in these videos. And I intentionally used different routes that changed directions so that no one can say "but..." Navigation shouldn’t be hard and you should never have to question its performance. It should just work. This also isn't to show how great the G-Tab is, but to help you guys understand what your expectations should be of GPS and navigation on a tablet, any tablet.
CoPilot
1) Cold Boot
2) Flight Mode On
CoPilot doesn’t require either a 3G or Wi-Fi connection to work at any time. All the data it relies on is stored locally. In this example the G-Tab ran solely on its stand-alone GPS from start to finish. The G-Tab’s sitting on the passenger seat which is where it usually is when I use it rental cars on the road. The direction it’s facing changes numerous times so its ability to maintain a satellite fix isn’t dependent on being in a particular position. At 2:35 you’ll see it navigate an S turn. If accuracy was any higher than 15’ that would be impossible. Throughout the video you’ll see how accurately it keeps position and changes direction as the car does. At 6:19 I intentionally go off route. It corrects so quickly you have to look at the orientation of Ash Street to even notice. The same thing happens again at 7:50. And for the finale you can see the tablet fall off the seat of the car in a turn. G-Tab’s are sturdy.
Google Navigation 1
1) Cold Boot
2) 3G On (to download route guidance)
3) Start Google Navigation
4) 3G Off
The maps are cached but Google Navigation needs to download the driving directions via 3G or Wi-Fi. Once downloaded it can navigate from GPS alone. That’s what this vid shows. You can see how accurate the positioning is based on how well Google Nav keeps up with the car’s position; especially approaching turns. The car changes position multiple times and you can see it passing under bridges and overpasses without losing the signal. At 4:19 watch how accurately it navigates a curve. At 5:18 watch the car’s position change at a turn and how well Google Nav keeps up with it.
Google Navigation 2
1) Cold Boot
2) Flight Mode On
3) GPS Test (1:10 – 1:45, 10 out of 10 satellites and 15’ accuracy in 35 seconds)
4) Flight Mode Off
5) Google Nav downloads driving directions
6) Flight Mode On
Like the first Google Nav vid, it never misses a beat. But why would it? It’s maintaining 15’ accuracy consistently.
So comparing against the pic of the Prime on the dashboard you can see just how bad the GPS in the Prime is compared to a G-Tab (and other tablets) So while everyone beats there head against the wall trying to prove it works you can also see how futile that is. Even a 50% improvement would be half of what the G-Tab’s (or Zoom, or Jetstream) capable of. And I use navigation sometimes twice a week in cities in the U.S. and Europe. If the G-Tab was operating at 50% it would be useless to me (and you too). So god's speed to the developers and to those hoping for an ICS fix. In all my time on XDA I’ve never seen s/w fully overcome a h/w problem. And this my friends is a h/w problem. Anyone else that's used a tablet for navigation feel free to share your expereinces and how they compare to what I've shown.
PSA: Spokane's a podunk town. I strongly recommend against shooting video in a moving car on busy streets.
While I agree you pay $500 for a working tablet with GPS... on the other flipside,who the F uses a tablet for GPS. Use your phone or buy a garmin god damnit. It's just not practical to use a tab.
chugger93 said:
While I agree you pay $500 for a working tablet with GPS... on the other flipside,who the F uses a tablet for GPS. Use your phone or buy a garmin god damnit. It's just not practical to use a tab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do whatever you want. For me, and probably others, using a tablet for GPS makes sense. Here's some of the advantages:
1) It's got a bigger screen which is easier to see when you're driving.
2) A lot of the tablified GPS apps have a split screen mode which makes it easier to navigate at turns and on expressway on and off ramps.
3) Tablets have better GPS chips and antennas so they're more accurate (ironic, isn't it).
4) The battery on a tablet's a lot bigger than a phone so it'll last three times as long if it's not plugged in.
5) Using a tablet vs. a phone doesn't drain the phone's battery while you're on the road.
6) The phone's free to make and receive Bluetooth calls.
I posted the vids only to give people that even care about navigation something to benchmark against. I could care less what people choose to use for navigation or if they don't care about GPS at all. I'd assume the latter group would have no interest in this thread anyway (hint).
Have you tried using a 7" tablet for car nav? How would legibility fare against a 10"? Seems to me that it would be easier to mount a 7" in a location more in front of the driver, as opposed to a center location where you have to turn your head and look.
oh man not again
we know. I bought it and kept it anyways.
BTW, have an Ipad 3g. Never used navigation on it without it being wired to the internet, 3g or tethered. Will be the exact same with tf201.
AND, now, my phone has google maps. this way, I can still watch old Billy Mays infomertials on youtube whilst navigation with the phone.
just don't buy it dude. put it on craiglist and get something else.
Now is the time to be looking for or finding a solution. Or seeing what Asus is going to do about it. this is beating a dead horse. already known GPS sux, even Asus admitted. So instead of dragging the issue out, which is widely known, lets focus more of solving the problem vs. just keep talking about how bad it is.
e.mote said:
Have you tried using a 7" tablet for car nav? How would legibility fare against a 10"? Seems to me that it would be easier to mount a 7" in a location more in front of the driver, as opposed to a center location where you have to turn your head and look.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To me, 7" is too close to the size of my phone. I mostly use the tablet for video, web, news and stuff like that while I'm traveling so I like the extra real estate. With 5.3", 7", 7.7", 8", 8.9", 10", and 11.6", it really comes down to personal preference.
demandarin said:
So instead of dragging the issue out, which is widely known, lets focus more of solving the problem vs. just keep talking about how bad it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So without an example of "good," how would you know how bad "bad" is and what a working threshold is? Also, people trying to use Google Nav to do some of their own testing couldn't figure it out. At least they can now see how it works. And some people who haven't seen a tablet navigate might find watching one in action interesting.
Again, with no interest in GPS, I don't understand why anyone would keep extending a thread on it just to let the world know (once again) they don't care. It's important enough to some people that they returned their Prime's over it so it's not like no one cares.
Hmm, that's a good demo of Co-Pilot for me. Although, I think I prefer the graphic of Sygic... But yea, pretty accurate demo of GPS navigation on a tablet.
Btw, I noticed some significant lag with your G-Tab....
You've listed Moto/Samsung/HTC as tabs with good GPS. Not sure about the Jetstream, but both the GTabs and Xoom also have dual-band wifi. I don't think it's a coincidence that all these are also phone vendors. Their tablets tend to be better designed, and unsurprisingly, cost more.
Despite the shiny iPad-like shell, the TF201 is pretty similar in build quality and price to the TF101 and other "mainstream" tabs. Even without a metal shell, I wouldn't bank on GPS performance for any of the non-phone vendors' units.
Connectivity is something these tab vendors will need to improve. Most of the issues listed with the Prime (and to a lesser extent, with 1st-gen Droid tabs) are about I/O: HDMI, bluetooth, USB, wifi, GPS.
Some of the blame lies with the OS. Frankly, I'm looking forward to Win8 tabs if only for Windows' proven connectivity.
shinzz said:
Btw, I noticed some significant lag with your G-Tab....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Blame me, not the G-Tab. I have a ton of stuff syncing and widgets that dependent on outside data so booting takes a while. It's 3G so it's always connected so it's not an issue in daily use. It's actually worse in airplane more because everything looking for a signal does and has to fail before the UI’s normal again.
Thanks for making this thread, maybe it will shut up those that swear their GPS is working flawlessly lmao.
A lot of people use a tablet for GPS. Just because you don't see yourself using it doesn't mean everyone should also not use a tablet for GPS...
I don't use GPS at all for anything but I could see how many people would like to use it, especially for their jobs.
jzen said:
Thanks for making this thread, maybe it will shut up those that swear their GPS is working flawlessly lmao.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Part of the issue is everyone seems to have a different definition of "working." The guy with the Prime on his dashboard swears his is "working." If people watch even short segments of the video it shows how important precision is for accuracy. And the difference between 90' and 15' hurling along an expressway at 70MPH looking for an exit is the difference between making it and not.
e.mote said:
You've listed Moto/Samsung/HTC as tabs with good GPS. Not sure about the Jetstream, but both the GTabs and Xoom also have dual-band wifi. I don't think it's a coincidence that all these are also phone vendors. Their tablets tend to be better designed, and unsurprisingly, cost more.
Despite the shiny iPad-like shell, the TF201 is pretty similar in build quality and price to the TF101 and other "mainstream" tabs. Even without a metal shell, I wouldn't bank on GPS performance for any of the non-phone vendors' units.
Connectivity is something these tab vendors will need to improve. Most of the issues listed with the Prime (and to a lesser extent, with 1st-gen Droid tabs) are about I/O: HDMI, bluetooth, USB, wifi, GPS.
Some of the blame lies with the OS. Frankly, I'm looking forward to Win8 tabs if only for Windows' proven connectivity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm, can you tell me how dual-band WIFI helps with GPS?
Jetstream and Xoom has better design over TF101?
Last I checked, all these vendors use similar GPS chip (btw, Asus is releasing padfone.. doesn't that qualify Asus and phone vendor?)
shinzz said:
Umm, can you tell me how dual-band WIFI helps with GPS?
Jetstream and Xoom has better design over TF101?
Last I checked, all these vendors use similar GPS chip (btw, Asus is releasing padfone.. doesn't that qualify Asus and phone vendor?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got the point of what he's saying. Asus has far fewer products dependent on far fewer radio combinations than a manufacturer that builds phones does. Motorola, Samsung, and HTC sell tens of millions of mobile devices equipped with multiple radios. It makes sense that their experience makes a difference in the finished product.
>Jetstream and Xoom has better design over TF101?
I don't know about the Jetstream, but the Xoom is better constructed. It has none of the build-quality issues that occurred with the Acer/Asus/Toshiba tablets. You can verify by scanning the start of the respective tablets' general forums for complaint frequency.
The GTab has some issues, eg the "Newton rings". But in overall volume of complaints, it's a still only slight second to Xoom. The largest by far is the Prime, followed by Acer A500, then Asus TF101.
There are other models with worse issues, eg the Iconia A100 with terrible screen & battery life, but they aren't as popular, so complaints are fewer.
>Last I checked, all these vendors use similar GPS chip
Consumers tend to obsess over chips and specs, eg quad-core. For GPS, antenna and overall system design matters more, or even most. For other aspects, the proof is real-world app performance.
>(btw, Asus is releasing padfone.. doesn't that qualify Asus and phone vendor?)
Dell sold a phone as well. That doesn't make it a phone vendor.
e.mote said:
I don't know about the Jetstream
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Jetstream's built like a tank. And it's as big as one and weighs as much too. I wanted to like it and Sense on a tablet was cool, but it just wasn't comfortable to carry around or even hold.
The GTab has some issues, eg the "Newton rings".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the biggest complaint. Samsung changed the screen design in October so newer G-Tabs don't have the issue. The other biggest "discussion" is the love/hate relationship with TouchWiz.
the proof is real-world app performance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^^^
This. Always.
Dell sold a phone as well. That doesn't make it a phone vendor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And if the PadPhone fares as well as Dell's phone attempts sell your Asus stock. I love the concept of the PadPhone, just not from Asus.
People who use a tablet for gps, please post a sign on your windshield or something. Cause I would sure love to drive in front of you and when you look down at you tablet gps on the passenger side, slam my brakes and get paid by your insurance. Easy win. "Officer it's not my fault. I bet you he took his eyes off the road to play with the gps on his tablet". CHA-CHING!!
Better yet, why not set up a 22 inch monitor on the dash and have your phone output to the monitor. Instant ultimate GPS!! BAM!!
Of course this is all fun and games
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201
I'm a bit confused by the videos and such. I appreciate you making them, but what are you comparing them to? Is it to the picture of someone's prime?
I don't really see how that is accurate at all. Was the photo shown the best possible accuracy anyone with a prime has ever had? There are so many variables here that are out of your control that is there is no way you could claim this as proof that the prime's GPS in extremely bad.
I'm not trying to argue that the prime's GPS is fine, I just don't see how this test proves anything. Show a prime next to you galaxy tab in these videos to show that there is in fact a difference if you want to claim such, otherwise it doesn't support your argument at all.
unxconformed said:
I'm not trying to argue that the prime's GPS is fine, I just don't see how this test proves anything. Show a prime next to you galaxy tab in these videos to show that there is in fact a difference if you want to claim such, otherwise it doesn't support your argument at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, with two different nav programs, GPS Test, and multiple different driving scenarios, you've witnessed what a typical tablet using GPS is capable of without depending on Wi-Fi. Can the Prime pass any of those tests? Until it can, no one can say the Prime’s GPS is “working.” Besides, now that the bootloader’s unlocked I’m sure the devs are going to look at GPS. They now have a bogie. But having used tablets for GPS all over the world, anything less than 75% of the performance shown in the vids isn’t usable for driving navigation. The G-Tab even becomes a bear in thunderstorms.
P.S. - The best performance of a moving Prime is in the pic in my original post. And since it's a still vs. a video I'm guessing that's the best it could do, not the worst.
I have had my Prime for a week now and it was working perfectly. I got the ICS update and everything was working even better. I never had any wifi connection issues. Today the prime will suddenly no longer connect to wifi. It appears to not be picking up the wifi signals anymore. When it does manage to pick up a signal it shows up as a small dot and still can't connect. It wouldn't connect at work this morning and when I came home it connected for about a minute and then dropped connection and would not connect again. I rebooted several times, tried a hard reset and then finally resorted to a factory reset. It still did no good. My unit was previously picking up my wifi signals with full strength usually and sometimes 3 bars. Not sure what happened but I guess I'll just take it back to Office Depot for a refund while I still have time. Not sure what I'll do now because i REALLY liked the prime during the time that it was working right.
If you're under warranty Asus will tell you to return it for a fix and hopefully their turnaround time is measured in days, not weeks or months. Sorry for you, it seems the Prime is not as durable as I thought, poor quality control is probably the culprit.
I would go the repair route but I'm kind of afraid that I'll then get stuck with it if they can't fix it and I've missed my return window at office depot. The bad thing is that there is no other tablet that I'd be satisfied with now that I've experienced how smoothly the quad core tegra 3 Prime runs. I had a Xoom before the Prime and I gave it to my fiancee after the Prime arrived. I really liked my Xoom too but the Prime is a MUCH BETTER device (when it worked).
fella1 said:
I have had my Prime for a week now and it was working perfectly. I got the ICS update and everything was working even better. I never had any wifi connection issues. Today the prime will suddenly no longer connect to wifi. It appears to not be picking up the wifi signals anymore. When it does manage to pick up a signal it shows up as a small dot and still can't connect. It wouldn't connect at work this morning and when I came home it connected for about a minute and then dropped connection and would not connect again. I rebooted several times, tried a hard reset and then finally resorted to a factory reset. It still did no good. My unit was previously picking up my wifi signals with full strength usually and sometimes 3 bars. Not sure what happened but I guess I'll just take it back to Office Depot for a refund while I still have time. Not sure what I'll do now because i REALLY liked the prime during the time that it was working right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haven't heard of this issue yet, that is a new one. If you are in warranty, take it back and get a full refund or a replacement. If not, contact Asus.
However, good luck with contacting Asus and getting a timely response. I am on day 3 of just waiting for a return email. I did it through their own messaging service on their site, not regular email. I would appreciate someone responding to my simple questions, but they must not have the time right now.
3rdamention said:
Haven't heard of this issue yet, that is a new one. If you are in warranty, take it back and get a full refund or a replacement. If not, contact Asus.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that is why I was so shocked when it happened this morning at work. I was hoping that it was just something going on with the wifi connection at my office. I now that there are Primes with bad wifi out there but mine doesn't just have a bad connection now, it can't connect at all. I figured that I had been lucky enough to get one of the good units considering how incredibly well it had worked over the past week. At least I've only had it for seven days so I can still return it to Office Depot. I just hate the thought of being tabletless now. Guess I gave my Xoom to my fiancee a little too fast.
Well my prime got to the point where it would connect when I was next to the router but would either drop out or lose signal strength when I moved away. I have scheduled for a return to office depot. Yesterday I found another prime in stock at hh gregg so I picked it up. This one once again has excellent wifi service just like my first one did for awhile. I am hoping that this one keeps it. I still can't understand what happened to my first one. The only thing that I had done before the wifi crapped out was install a memory card and I don't see how that could have had anything to do with it. This experience has shown me though that the prime is definitely capable of giving good wifi service and that there is something going on other than the aluminum backplate. Having seen both sides of it I can see why no one would be satisfied with the wifi performance it had when it went bad on my first one. Maybe it is a mechanical issue with the wifi antenna connections coming loose in the system? I don't know how likely that is but it is the only thing I can think of based on my experiences with the issue
It very well could be the antenna wires are coming undone from the Wi-Fi adapter it would allow you to connect right next to a router but not much further away.
Sorry to ask the obvious, but did you power down your Prime before starting again to see if the problem was still there. I'm sure this was the first thing you did, but just checking.
The wifi on my Prime cut off last night but it came back after a quick reset (holding down the power button for 13 seconds or so).
Yes I powered down, tried a hard reset and finally tried a factory reset and none of that helped with the problem. It was a complete night and day difference in performance that was quite shocking. As I said if people are experiencing that kind of performance from the beginning then I can totally understand the complaints. So far the new unit is having the same great performance as my other one had at first.
From looking at the Prime teardown, your wifi loss may be due to a loose connection. Instead of running a pigtail directly from the chip lead-out to the antenna, the Prime uses spring-loaded pogo pins (1st pic) as intermediate connectors.
Second pic shows the pogo pins for the main wifi and GPS antennae. The spring-loaded pins are pressed against the copper pads of the respective antenna (3rd pic). Suffice it to say, this isn't the most secure way to connect the antennae.
Aside from possible broken or intermittent connection, it also looks like a high-loss connection, and could contribute to attenuated signal reception. My guess is that this may be the main culprit of wifi/GPS woes, with the metal shell being a contributing factor.
The 4th pic below is a U.FL connector that's normally used for antenna pigtails. The lip has an outer overhang for a secure connection.
My guess is that the tablet was bumped and something shifted a bit, breaking the antenna connection.
This is FYI only, as the unit isn't user-serviceable. It does look like a simple fix, but you'd have to open the unit. Edit: You can try smacking the top edge of the tablet a few times and see if it will jar back into place. Worth a try.
Pogo pins used as intermediate connectors for wifi & GPS antennae
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The two pogo pins for main wifi and GPS. The spring-loaded heads are pressed against the antennae's pads to make the connection.
The main wifi & GPS antenna, with copper pads to connect to the pins
U.FL connector, normally used for antenna connection
e.mote;21489600
My guess is that the tablet was bumped and something shifted a bit said:
NICE
Heck yea it's worth a try!
And to the OP - since it only just happened today, I think I would wait a day or two to see what else might develop. I know you've tested it out in two different places, but it came on so suddenly, maybe (hopefully ) it will go away?
Unless of course waiting a day or seeing what might be different tomorrow would interfere with an exchange or return policy. If you are still within a window and are out of time soon, then you gotta do what you gotta do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
e.mote said:
From looking at the Prime teardown, your wifi loss may be due to a loose connection. Instead of running a pigtail directly from the chip lead-out to the antenna, the Prime uses spring-loaded pogo pins (1st pic) as intermediate connectors.
Second pic shows the pogo pins for the main wifi and GPS antennae. The spring-loaded pins are pressed against the copper pads of the respective antenna (3rd pic). Suffice it to say, this isn't the most secure way to connect the antennae.
Aside from possible broken or intermittent connection, it also looks like a high-loss connection, and could contribute to attenuated signal reception. My guess is that this may be the main culprit of wifi/GPS woes, with the metal shell being a contributing factor.
The 4th pic below is a U.FL connector that's normally used for antenna pigtails. The lip has an outer overhang for a secure connection.
My guess is that the tablet was bumped and something shifted a bit, breaking the antenna connection.
This is FYI only, as the unit isn't user-serviceable. It does look like a simple fix, but you'd have to open the unit. Edit: You can try smacking the top edge of the tablet a few times and see if it will jar back into place. Worth a try.
Pogo pins used as intermediate connectors for wifi & GPS antennae
The two pogo pins for main wifi and GPS. The spring-loaded heads are pressed against the antennae's pads to make the connection.
The main wifi & GPS antenna, with copper pads to connect to the pins
U.FL connector, normally used for antenna connection
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very interesting info as some users have flexed device in that area n now supposedly have good wifi n GPS now. this will affect the signal strength more tthan the backplate.
e.mote said:
This is FYI only, as the unit isn't user-serviceable. It does look like a simple fix, but you'd have to open the unit. Edit: You can try smacking the top edge of the tablet a few times and see if it will jar back into place. Worth a try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Before packaging my Prime up to be sent to ASUS for RMA. I did exactly that, I did the black part of the screen at the top with my kunckles kind of hard a few times.
My signal went from 35-40% where I was sitting at to around almost 70%.
demandarin said:
very interesting info as some users have flexed device in that area n now supposedly have good wifi n GPS now. this will affect the signal strength more tthan the backplate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You really can't use terms like "good" and "more" beacause they're all relative. "Good" compared to what Wi-Fi/GPS is with other devices or against other Prime's? And until it's known for sure that all devices are suffering some type of signal issue saying the unproven pogo pin expose is "more" or less an issue than anything else is premature. It's impossible to compare Wi-Fi performance on a forum because each testing condition is different and there's no baseline to have a common discussion around. To see if there's differences between Prime's a couple of them need to be tested side-by-side at the same time.
hang in there demadarin - I think Barry is weakening and we will eventually convince him there are potential issues beyond the back plate.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
clenz said:
hang in there demadarin - I think Barry is weakening and we will eventually convince him there are potential issues beyond the back plate.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm like Spock on Star Trek - it's all about logic. It seems more and more people are having their signal change when squeezing above where the antennas are. That certainly points to a common issue. But even the hand-picked Prime Asus sent to Anand to replace his defective sample still peformed poorly against the TF1. So the metal back cover's not an innocent victim (yet).
BarryH_GEG said:
I'm like Spock on Star Trek - it's all about logic. It seems more and more people are having their signal change when squeezing above where the antennas are. That certainly points to a common issue. But even the hand-picked Prime Asus sent to Anand to replace his defective sample still peformed poorly against the TF1. So the metal back cover's not an innocent victim (yet).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With one minor difference, Anandtech never flexed his Prime. You couldn't blame the pogos so the backplate took the hit.
---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------
I mean he couldn't blame the ...
tedr44 said:
With one minor difference, Anandtech never flexed his Prime. You couldn't blame the pogos so the backplate took the hit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at it this way, when Apple move the antenna from behind a plastic disk on the iPad1 to behind a metal speaker grill on the iPad2, performance took a hit. The Prime has no opening at all for a signal to travel through and Asus makes less in a year than Apple spends on R&D. Ergo, the metal back cover is and will remain a factor.
BarryH_GEG said:
Look at it this way, when Apple move the antenna from behind a plastic disk on the iPad1 to behind a metal speaker grill on the iPad2, performance took a hit. The Prime has no opening at all for a signal to travel through and Asus makes less in a year than Apple spends on R&D. Ergo, the metal back cover is and will remain a factor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but by how much in comparison to a tarnished pogo contact? And as time goes by, the influence of the latter will be increasingly pronounced. BTW, the TF101 does not use the pogos, the antennas are hardwired. I also noticed that the mainframe is made of solid aluminum and yet the 101 has never had any rf problems like the Prime.
With users experiencing sudden change in signal level after making good contact with the antenna, I'd say the evidence of inconsistency in performance is pretty convincing as to the real cause of the fault.
BarryH_GEG said:
You really can't use terms like "good" and "more" beacause they're all relative. "Good" compared to what Wi-Fi/GPS is with other devices or against other Prime's? And until it's known for sure that all devices are suffering some type of signal issue saying the unproven pogo pin expose is "more" or less an issue than anything else is premature. It's impossible to compare Wi-Fi performance on a forum because each testing condition is different and there's no baseline to have a common discussion around. To see if there's differences between Prime's a couple of them need to be tested side-by-side at the same time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, I understand what you saying
clenz said:
hang in there demadarin - I think Barry is weakening and we will eventually convince him there are potential issues beyond the back plate.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check the other thread, I think GPS contacts thread n you will see him cracking under the pressure..lol. he finally said he is starting to agree.
BarryH_GEG said:
I'm like Spock on Star Trek - it's all about logic. It seems more and more people are having their signal change when squeezing above where the antennas are. That certainly points to a common issue. But even the hand-picked Prime Asus sent to Anand to replace his defective sample still peformed poorly against the TF1. So the metal back cover's not an innocent victim (yet).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EVEN Spock went postal when he realized humans are a complex being n that not all things obvious are always the truth. That some things cant be explained by facts alone. As there could always be contributing factors. Spock was like Data, from the next generation. Even Data was Assimilated..lmfao. my father loved that show.
Off topic..but did you know the guy who played luetenant worf wanted to originally be the Captain? They denied him the part over Picard or whatever his real name was. I still laughed knowing the guy who played Jordi was the guy from reading rainbow.
---------- Post added at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 PM ----------
BarryH_GEG said:
I'm like Spock on Star Trek - it's all about logic. It seems more and more people are having their signal change when squeezing above where the antennas are. That certainly points to a common issue. But even the hand-picked Prime Asus sent to Anand to replace his defective sample still peformed poorly against the TF1. So the metal back cover's not an innocent victim (yet).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correction needed here. Anandtech last tablet test held prime wifi on par with tf-101. Then he also said range "Might" be an issue. He never said Prime wifi performed badly after his last test.
Nice try trying to sneak that one past me we all guilty of loving to pick n choose info relevant to what we want to prove..lol
I’ve been struggling with why my GPS quit seeing any satellites after the 9.4.2.11 update when I realized something looking at Anand’s teardown:
AnandTech - ASUS Eee Pad Transformer Prime Teardown
Perhaps the antenna connections are weak or have become slightly corroded. Based on his teardown the contacts are spring type “pogopins” which mate with the opposite face. With that thought in mind I decided to try and flex the tablet ever so slightly to clean the contacts. The idea being that the slight flex would cause the pins to scrape the contact surface rubbing a clean(er) spot.
Before the 9.4.2.11 update I had the typical poor performance from the GPS, getting locks but losing them on the move. I had given up on it [GPS] until this update which touted GPS improvements. After updating and wiping I tested the GPS again, but could not see even one satellite after letting it sit, more than once, for over an hour with Wi-Fi on and off.
I must stress I strongly suggest you do not try this on your tablet for fear of damaging it. I take no responsibly for damage to anyone’s tablet and am only reporting my actions.
After this procedure I am able to see several birds indoors, albeit with weak SNR. This has me convinced that part of the problem is related to these contacts, and may serve to explain some of the weak Wi-Fi reports. It may also help illustrate why only some users are seeing issues, and perhaps why some of the returns are functioning better. These contacts may be more robust in some units or possibly be able to be rectified via service.
I do understand there are other factors related to both the GPS and Wi-Fi, but this appears, at least to me, to be part of the bigger picture.
Please note that the amount of flex I’m talking about is next to nothing, enough to see a change in light bleed around the display, I was afraid to go too far.
*Mods, I'm not sure why this post was deleted before, please PM me if there is a problem with this post. I did not include the link.*
Hi jhovak,
that sounds very interesting and makes me nervous thinking of manipulating a new device. You are brave!
Do you have some pictures of your action?
Thanks.
Cheers,
René.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=21489600&postcount=10
You can bypass the pogo pins by connecting a pigtail to the UF.L connector at the chip leadouts, then solder the other end to the antennae's copper pads. It should improve reception.
e.mote,
Looks like you beat me to this I never saw your post, but that's exactly my thoughts. I was able to torque it a bit to get it working again. That maye be what they are doing to get the RMAs reported to work better, "fixed".
motocamp,
Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the process, but you wouldn't be able to see much, I only deformed the case/screen very slightly. The problem is you may end up popping other solder joints in the process.
jhovak said:
I’ve been struggling with why my GPS quit seeing any satellites after the 9.4.2.11 update when I realized something looking at Anand’s teardown:
AnandTech - ASUS Eee Pad Transformer Prime Teardown
Perhaps the antenna connections are weak or have become slightly corroded. Based on his teardown the contacts are spring type “pogopins” which mate with the opposite face. With that thought in mind I decided to try and flex the tablet ever so slightly to clean the contacts. The idea being that the slight flex would cause the pins to scrape the contact surface rubbing a clean(er) spot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Makes perfect sense to me.
Everyone has the same aluminum back, so you would expect the same results across the board (barring weather and atmospheric conditions) for all Primes. There has to be another piece to the puzzle of bad GPS performance when some user's report GPS working and getting locks and other user's reports no GPS active with no satellites seen and no locks.
Thanks e.mote for your explanation of the antena contacts. I think you hit the cause of the GPS problem. Hopefully ASUS saw your post and address this prioblem so it does not occur on their the planned 700 series.
Cheers
I forwarded all this info to Gary in a pm just recently. including details, link to that thread e.mote posted in and that teardown showing pogo pins. hopefully he will get it soon and pass info to engineers.
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pardon my lack of GPS knowledge but what is considered good or bad when comparing GPS in general? This is my prime outside earlier but there were fluctuations
I am a bit more skeptical about the hardware pins as a sole cause. Reason:
I had pretty decent GPS performance until this last update which totally killed my GPS performance. This suggests to me that there is a firmware/driver type component to at least some people's problems. The same update did correct other people's problems. So perhaps there are some slight differences in the GPS chips that the firmware is not playing nice with or accounting for?
I can confirm this at least partially works. I tried to drive home using GPS test the other day from work and could hardly get a lock especially at high speeds. I saw this and did a number of squeezes aroung the area of the GPS connector and had a significant change.
Drove home with GPS test today and I hardly ever saw it not locked, even going at 70mph, though it would go between 2 and 8 locked sats or so. Halfway through the drive I opened google maps. It took 10-15 seconds to lock, but then I watched my blue arrow follow the road exactly almost the entire way home. It only lost lock when I was stopped under an overpass at a stop light.
To be clear the signal strength is not that of my phone, but at least it's working now.
Have you seen the new evidence found? It was found out that Original Transformer actually uses the soldered type connection E.mote described. I was gonna start a thread but no use as this one is perfect for the new info.
FIRST here is the quote n pics from e.mote of the current Prime type of connection
e.mote said:
From looking at the Prime teardown, your wifi loss may be due to a loose connection. Instead of running a pigtail directly from the chip lead-out to the antenna, the Prime uses spring-loaded pogo pins (1st pic) as intermediate connectors.
Second pic shows the pogo pins for the main wifi and GPS antennae. The spring-loaded pins are pressed against the copper pads of the respective antenna (3rd pic). Suffice it to say, this isn't the most secure way to connect the antennae.
Aside from possible broken or intermittent connection, it also looks like a high-loss connection, and could contribute to attenuated signal reception. My guess is that this may be the main culprit of wifi/GPS woes, with the metal shell being a contributing factor.
The 4th pic below is a U.FL connector that's normally used for antenna pigtails. The lip has an outer overhang for a secure connection.
My guess is that the tablet was bumped and something shifted a bit, breaking the antenna connection.
This is FYI only, as the unit isn't user-serviceable. It does look like a simple fix, but you'd have to open the unit. Edit: You can try smacking the top edge of the tablet a few times and see if it will jar back into place. Worth a try.
Pogo pins used as intermediate connectors for wifi & GPS antennae
The two pogo pins for main wifi and GPS. The spring-loaded heads are pressed against the antennae's pads to make the connection.
The main wifi & GPS antenna, with copper pads to connect to the pins
U.FL connector, normally used for antenna connection
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NOW here is the Original Prime teardown and type of connection
http://m.techrepublic.com/photos/cr...-transformer-tf101/6270147?seq=53#photo-frame
OG Transformer teardown pix
NOW HERE IS THE KICKER
clenz said:
that GPS/Wifi connection looks like a soldered wire and not pogo pin to me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WHO said copy n paste n select text doesn't work well on the Prime? Lol I did this all from the Prime itself from various threads.
Extremely interesting. Im definitely returning my GPS-less prime now. Smh
G-Tab 10.1 Wi-Fi antenna connection...
The Wi-Fi chip's on the reverse side of the PCB.
Wi-Fi/BT/FM radio combo chip is in the upper right.
Damn, I thought they used pogopins for just the GPS. Now I just found out they use them for the Wifi too! OUCH! Bad idea. A soldered wire would have been %100 much better, but I'm so afraid now to return my tablet to Asus from hearing the horror stories.
opentoe said:
Damn, I thought they used pogopins for just the GPS. Now I just found out they use them for the Wifi too! OUCH! Bad idea. A soldered wire would have been %100 much better, but I'm so afraid now to return my tablet to Asus from hearing the horror stories.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know right...lol ya damned if you do, damned if you don't ...
Just got PM a lil while ago from Gary n response to the thread n possible pogo pin issue. He said this is something the Engineers are looking very closely at on units being returned to be looked at or repaired. SO things are moving right along. FOUND OUT ALSO my serial number that starts with BCOKA is actually from an early batch that I guess had the older hardware. Engineer or Service person supposed to call within next 48hrs. They are going down the list of people that Gary got serial number, email, and phone number info from. I guess it must be a big list...lmao
SO if I do have to send it in, then they will be adding the new hardware it and hopefully changing those pogo pin connections to soldered ones..lol
Ill know more details once I get their phone call. If I do have to send in, I hope they don't wipe everything as I have around 150-200 apps n games. Things customized n all that. Ill take the new hardware though n hopefully won't go thru the horror stories I've been hearing about on returns. OR ill like it better if they just sent me a brand new tablet with the latest n greatest hardware changes on it then I send mines to them. So it'll give me time to transfer things to new device if need be.
I HAVE AN APP on my Ipad called applist that will list every app you have installed and allow you to email the list to yourself. Does android have anything like this?
Wow. I think we can all agree that Asus dropped the ball in so many areas with the TF201. Who the hell wants to put up with this nonsense???
If only Motorola would build a tablet with a docking clamshell keyboard they could probably take 80% of would be Transformer customers. I'd be first in line.
But what could be the reason ASUS changed to use this pogo pin?
Weight? Cost? ... Sabotage? ... I simly dont understand the engineering thought of it.
racerex said:
Wow. I think we can all agree that Asus dropped the ball in so many areas with the TF201. Who the hell wants to put up with this nonsense???
If only Motorola would build a tablet with a docking clamshell keyboard they could probably take 80% of would be Transformer customers. I'd be first in line.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would take alot more than that for Motorola to come up n take Asus customers. The xoom, first HC tablet, was a complete flop. Plus Motorola known for locking their systems down, at least initially. MOTOROLA IS NOT too popular of a brand these days, at least tablet wise.
demandarin said:
Just got PM a lil while ago from Gary n response to the thread n possible pogo pin issue. He said this is something the Engineers are looking very closely at on units being returned to be looked at or repaired. SO things are moving right along. FOUND OUT ALSO my serial number that starts with BCOKA is actually from an early batch that I guess had the older hardware. Engineer or Service person supposed to call within next 48hrs. They are going down the list of people that Gary got serial number, email, and phone number info from. I guess it must be a big list...lmao
SO if I do have to send it in, then they will be adding the new hardware it and hopefully changing those pogo pin connections to soldered ones..lol
Ill know more details once I get their phone call. If I do have to send in, I hope they don't wipe everything as I have around 150-200 apps n games. Things customized n all that. Ill take the new hardware though n hopefully won't go thru the horror stories I've been hearing about on returns. OR ill like it better if they just sent me a brand new tablet with the latest n greatest hardware changes on it then I send mines to them. So it'll give me time to transfer things to new device if need be.
I HAVE AN APP on my Ipad called applist that will list every app you have installed and allow you to email the list to yourself. Does android have anything like this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to know BCOKA is from an older batch, have such a unit as well and very crappy GPS and also suffer from mediocre wifi combined with bluetooth degradation.
Also contacted Gary and will keep an eye out for any developments (live in EUrope though).
The majority of Prime users don't root or flash their tablets. Maybe the majority on this site but not the majority of the total users. So I doubt that will dictate the winners in this market.
Secondly, you can't debate that Motorola's hardware prowess is vastly superior to Asus. And definitely good enough not to pull these bone head mistakes that Asus keeps rolling out one after another.
The Xoom wasn't the sexiest by any means but it was solid as a rock functionality wise. Now with the Xyboard and their follow on products improving in the looks department I really do think they could take would-be Transformer customers if they would just offer a keyboard dock.
And if you're wondering the reason I'm not getting a Galaxy tablet, the reason is because their RF electronic know-how is not too much better that Asus's. I gotta say though that at least Samsung had the intelligence not to seal their RF electronics in a Faraday cage. LOL.
Does the aluminum case affect your WiFi?
Here's a simple test. Run WiFi Analyzer.
1. Hold your Prime with the aluminum back towards the router. Take note of the WiFi Analyzer's meter reading.
2. Hold your Prime with the glass front facing the router. Take note of your reading.
My Prime consistently gets weaker signal with the aluminum back towards the router compared when the glass front is towards the router. (The Prime is about 10dBm weaker signal with the back pointing toward the router, compared to when the front is.)
Try this, what is your difference?
Unfortunately it does affect my WiFi. The range of my router reaches half way down my street. My M18x, iPad 2, Japanese PS Vita and iPhone 4S can reach my router 5 houses down at my friend's place. My TF201 can't even make it out of my living room.
skygunner27 said:
Unfortunately it does affect my WiFi. The range of my router reaches half way down my street. My M18x, iPad 2, Japanese PS Vita and iPhone 4S can reach my router 5 houses down at my friend's place. My TF201 can't even make it out of my living room.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but is that due to the metal back, or the pogo pins?
Do what the OP said to find out.
Col.Kernel said:
Yes, but is that due to the metal back, or the pogo pins?
Do what the OP said to find out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most likely a combination of both defects.
skygunner27 said:
Most likely a combination of both defects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
<sigh> Look, I'm not trying to be a horses backside here, but you can't prove jack. The OP, if they are asking for anything, is asking for facts. You keep supplying opinions.
Do the test, or don't post. That's the only proof you have. Or propose a different test.
Your posts in this thread so far are like all the Prime owners who swear their GPS is fine, but when you ask they don't use it and haven't tested it.
Col.Kernel said:
<sigh> Look, I'm not trying to be a horses backside here, but you can't prove jack. The OP, if they are asking for anything, is asking for facts. You keep supplying opinions.
Do the test, or don't post. That's the only proof you have. Or propose a different test.
Your posts in this thread so far are like all the Prime owners who swear their GPS is fine, but when you ask they don't use it and haven't tested it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who are you to question me lol....First off my GPS is PERFECT! It even works from my bedroom. Of course I performed the test!! The OP mentioned his discovery in a different thread. Go troll somewhere else.
I'm starting to believe that you don't own a Prime. Post some pics along with both boxes and a piece of paper with your handle over the top of your Primes box. Make sure I can see the box. Hurry I don't have all nite.
Here it comes you are about to get owned...
skygunner27 said:
To be honest I have one of the best Primes. But it's still not good enough.
Here are some pics showing GPS from my bedroom and to validate that I actually own a Prime and am not trolling. My Prime has better GPS than WiFi!! Go Figure!! If I'm outside I have 13 satelites all in the green at the least.
WiFi Disabled
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
WiFi Enabled
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Col.Kernel said:
<sigh> Look, I'm not trying to be a horses backside here, but you can't prove jack. The OP, if they are asking for anything, is asking for facts. You keep supplying opinions.
Do the test, or don't post. That's the only proof you have. Or propose a different test.
Your posts in this thread so far are like all the Prime owners who swear their GPS is fine, but when you ask they don't use it and haven't tested it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He is right though. Proving that the aluminum back interferes with wifi does not disprove that the login pins are an issue with signal strength. Nor would this test provide enough quantitative data to compare potential problems. A single test without equipment or a control (basis for comparison) is not meaningful.
I do not believe it is in dispute that the aluminum back will to some degree interfere with wifi and GPS signal strength. Perhaps a better question is to what extent does the back interfere and to what extent does the pogo pin. Then you can combine the two to better understand where the faults in signal strength lie and why.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
JanetPanic said:
He is right though. Proving that the aluminum back interferes with wifi does not disprove that the login pins are an issue with signal strength. Nor would this test provide enough quantitative data to compare potential problems. A single test without equipment or a control (basis for comparison) is not meaningful.
I do not believe it is in dispute that the aluminum back will to some degree interfere with wifi and GPS signal strength. Perhaps a better question is to what extent does the back interfere and to what extent does the pogo pin. Then you can combine the two to better understand where the faults in signal strength lie and why.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Instead of talking about how to word the test. Lets get a standard agreed on and written in stone so we can move on. The sooner we understand what's really happening here the better off we'll be. Believe it or not we are all on the same team with the same common goals. Some people have problems with GPS, I have proven I do not. Even so, it still is a problem that needs to be addressed since it was deviously removed from Asus's website and continues to be printed on the box.
You forgot to mention that he got owned on the "Your posts in this thread so far are like all the Prime owners who swear their GPS is fine" post. and that I was right.
---------- Post added at 02:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 AM ----------
skygunner27 said:
Who are you to question me lol....First off my GPS is PERFECT! It even works from my bedroom. Of course I performed the test!! The OP mentioned his discovery in a different thread. Go troll somewhere else.
I'm starting to believe that you don't own a Prime. Post some pics along with both boxes and a piece of paper with your handle over the top of your Primes box. Make sure I can see the box. Hurry I don't have all nite.
Here it comes you are about to get owned...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's taking you so long to post a couple of pics proving you have a Prime? What are you doing? Are you out driving around trying to buy a Prime and dock? I see that your still on. Let's get this over with. You have problems with GPS, I have problems with BT/WiFi/Youtube Artifacts. I need you to be on the same team with the same common goal.
Yea, unfortunately the aluminum case is a real pain. If Asus just came out and told us the truth about all this might have been better. They are just going to fix the issues by taking all the hard work that we did and apply it to another version tablet or slider.
Try it, what are your results?
Edited my original post with.....
(The Prime is about 10dBm weaker signal with the back pointing toward the router, compared to when the front is.)
Try this, what is your difference?
OK. I tried this. For me, there is hardly a difference or improvement. With glass facing router I might see a 2-4dbm improvement. Which is nothing really that'll make or break wifi performance. Plus I've noticed also you could sit still with metal back or glass facing router n the signal will strength will fluctuate. So for me, it not affecting my performance. Don't think this is really a good way to tell if back is affecting strength to a noticeable point. Since signal strength is always constantly fluctuating. Even 10dbm difference could be accounted for normal varying in signal strength. 10dbm difference won't hardly affect performance at all really. Need a more controlled test method to where other factors won't influence strength. Just by the way u holding tablet or angle or whatever can make the strength dbm change.
10dbm difference won't hardly affect performance at all really.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Close to the router you are right. But further away, when reading say -60dBm, then another -10dBm is pretty significant for the Prime.
And someone else posted they saw 10 to 15 db difference.
Just curious what others might find. Does turning the back to the router give you a weaker signal, than when the glass is towards the router? By how much?
Ride525 said:
Close to the router you are right. But further away, when reading say -60dBm, then another -10dBm is pretty significant for the Prime.
And someone else posted they saw 10 to 15 db difference.
Just curious what others might find. Does turning the back to the router give you a weaker signal, than when the glass is towards the router? By how much?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is about the differences I see, about 15-20 foot away. Up close, it does have less impact. Seems somewhat exponential, I may start doing proper method tests but so far I just check it when it kicks my curiosity.