TF & New Trent iCruiser IMP1000 11000mAh External Battery Pack - Eee Pad Transformer Accessories

Hi everyone!
I recently purchased New Trent iCruiser IMP1000 11000mAh External Battery Pack and just to let you all know that I tried and succeeded charging my TF!
I took 2,5 h to charge TF full from 50% battery but the only trick is that the TF screen must be off. While connected, TF didn't show any signs of charging, like battery icon or similar but to my surprise it did fully charged.
iCruiser has an output voltage of 5 V, 1 mA so using it with TF is similar to usb charging trick. Usually while I charge my HTC phone with iCruiser it goes off when finished but with TF it stays on so you have to turn it off manually.
So if anyone owns or plans to buy similar or same external battery pack, it could save you while on trip etc.
http://www.amazon.com/New-Trent-iCruiser-IMP1000-Blackberry/dp/B003ZBZ64Q/ref=pd_cp_e_1

Thx for the word! I have a NEW Trent battery pack that I like and use a lot. just last night I tried and failed to charge it. I tried both 1 and 2.1 amps, each at five volts. Didn't see anything and figured it wasn't working. Ill try what you say.

While it is true that 5v will charge the TF and Dock it will take for ever and you can not have the screen on as you are finding out. It would be a better choice to use a battery that has a 12v output. A battery pack designed to extend the battery life of a notebook computer would be what to look for.
Thank you for the post. Appreciate the info.
hshoem1

I tried my 5V battery last night and it did charge. I use my external battery a lot for my phone, MP3 player, etc. Its nice that it at least somewhat works with my tablet.

I know this thread is a little old now, but are you still as impressed with it as before? I've heard that it doesnt have a long battery life and gives out after 3 - 6 months.
What are your thoughts?

I just bought the IMP70D and I get that it charges while the screen is off, but my question is, how do you keep the screen off? The moment it detects a charge it turns my screen on. Then it keeps turning on at random while its plugged in. Are you turning the tablet off to do this?

frobie said:
I just bought the IMP70D and I get that it charges while the screen is off, but my question is, how do you keep the screen off? The moment it detects a charge it turns my screen on. Then it keeps turning on at random while its plugged in. Are you turning the tablet off to do this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Weird, it should not turn back on when you have turned it off.
But you can try disabling "stay awake" in dev. options.

Please help me!
I have the New Trent 7000mAh IMP70D
Is there a way to charge my Transformer??
Do I have to plug it on the 2.1A or 1A and what else should I do??

The 1A is good enough for 5V charging. USB (or 5V) will only trickle charge when the TF is off. Good enough for overnight charging but that's about it.
Sent from my PG41200 using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2

So all I gotta do is plug it in the port where it says "1A for iPhone 4S" and turn off the screen??

xMini said:
So all I gotta do is plug it in the port where it says "1A for iPhone 4S" and turn off the screen??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I wasn't clear enough. Off fully as in shut down. It should charge when in deep sleep but with the way ICS is behaving I wouldn't trust things to actually work out that way.
Sent from my PG41200 using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2

Unfortunately it still doesn't charge!
Is there a difference between the 11000mAh battery and the 7000mAh other than the capacity??
I tried charging on both ports (1A and 2.1A)!
I powered off the device completely and it didn't help!
If I knew this before I would've bought another battery...

Amperage doesn't matter as much as volts with the TF if its at 5v standard USB it will barely trickle charge it while its off. As soon as u get up to 11v the TF will start to respond by showing the charging animations. 15v at 1.2A-2A is stock charger output.

Related

[Q] loses 450mAh while using GPS

Has anyone noticed that phone does not charge while using GPS. The charging indicator is on but when I look at the stats it says discharging at -450 mAh. Is this the way it is and if so, is there a fix? 1 hr 42 m with 73% display on battery use and 43% charge remaining, but was plugged in the entire time while driving under an hour home. I am using the same Motorola high performance charger that every other phone is charged fully even when using GPS.
are you absolutely sure the charger is giving the full 1A?
What sensor app are you using to see the battery discharging?
Mine charges normally with gps on.
Sent from my HTC
LTE 4G Rezound
I was curious so I tested this with "Battery Monitor" I have it plugged into my laptop currently which only gives +500mA. and not the +1A that you get from a wall/car/high power usb port.
the app is showing +257mA with GPS on and functioning normally.
So charging good here... Might be something with your motorola charger? It could have a sensor in it to detect 'trickle charging mode' that is improperly engaging when connected to the HTC causing the charger to put out a minimal 'sustain only' level of amperage.
good luck!
you need a charger putting out 1A ... most car chargers put out 500mA so find a good one off monoprice
Here's what I'm doing. I have a Belkin 2.1A(2100mAh) USB car charger dongle. The problem is, once i connect the USB cable to it the phone registers it as "Charging USB" and does notcharge anywhere near as fast(power-wise) as if the phone was registering it "Charging AC". I'm not keen on using a power inverter to get the full AC charge so instead i am going to go pick up a cheap micro USB cable, splice it open, then disconnect the data wires(green & white ones) & then tape it back up. By disconnecting the data wires, the phone will no longer think it's a USB connection and then charge via AC, getting the best charge possible.
that should work ^ if thats the problem
I've found that using the included USB cable with a Belkin dual port USB car charger allows the phone to charge as if it were plugged in to a wall. I'm guessing the included cable has a different layout than standard Micro USB cables.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
dawynkoop said:
I've found that using the included USB cable with a Belkin dual port USB car charger allows the phone to charge as if it were plugged in to a wall. I'm guessing the included cable has a different layout than standard Micro USB cables.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm guessing that I have the same belkin dual port (2.1amp and 1amp ports) and the best I've seen out of it is about 250mah charging. This is using the supplied usb/micro hdmi whatever cord for the phone.
I have seen discharge rates off the charger of 750mah which is the highest I've seen on any phone. I'm guessing if you are using the nav on your phone with the screen on, it will probably still be using battery while plugged in.
thatsricci said:
I was curious so I tested this with "Battery Monitor" I have it plugged into my laptop currently which only gives +500mA. and not the +1A that you get from a wall/car/high power usb port.
the app is showing +257mA with GPS on and functioning normally.
So charging good here... Might be something with your motorola charger? It could have a sensor in it to detect 'trickle charging mode' that is improperly engaging when connected to the HTC causing the charger to put out a minimal 'sustain only' level of amperage.
good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Possible, but says AC charging in Battery Monitor widget. I will post a few pics.
Here are a few Pics. you can see a couple of things.
-Charger rated at 950 MA out. and no other phone I have owned lost a charge while driving including TBolt, Charge, Bionic.
-Shows as AC charging
- Spikes of good charging detected
Put on Normal power mode today on the way in. live wallpapers did not wrok, just flickered. 3G on vice 4G. Battery still went down, but above 90% on 40 minute drive in. Screen low but on. Bluetooth speaker.
Maybe it is the iBolt car mount. See review online. will try without dock this afternoon on my way home.
-----------------------------------------------------
User: marc frederick, Nov 25, 2011
Pros: Options for different backs
Cons: Does not charge the phone while it is in use
Try playing pandora when the phone is 100 charged. After 45 minutes on the car mount (and yes it is plugged into a charger and all indicatros show it is charging) and the charge level is 84. Using the same charger but plugged into the phone, playing Pandora for 45 min starting charge level 68. Ending charge level is 100.
Yeah, something is telling that charger to not give you full juice
Rezound
ok, drove home off the window mount and just on charger, all same except full brightness on screen.40 minute drive. came up 7% battery vice down from 100 to 43%. nedd a few trials to confirm, but looks like window mount is throttleing juice.
thatsricci said:
are you absolutely sure the charger is giving the full 1A?
What sensor app are you using to see the battery discharging?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have seen spurts up to 913 with GPS off and screen just turned on. Using battery monitor widget. Not on window mount, just charger.
I can confirm. The car dock will not charge your phone atleast not with the screen on and nothing else running but battery monitor widget.
I bought one and tested it extensively yesterday. I used a Verizon 1a charger and a generic 1a charger. With the dock and both chargerz the phone DIScharged(as in LOST battery power) at between 100ma and 200ma. Without the dock using the same chargers and changing nothing on the phone the phone charged at between 50a and 300ma.
I did the test several times to eliminate any random things the phone may have been doing in the background.
After doing that controlled test I played with it some more and no matter what I did I could not get a positive charge with the dock attached even in airplane mode with the screen backlight at minimum. Without the dock using the same chargers i ran Pandora and a police scanner both outputting through the phone speaker, gps, wifi, mobile all on, and screen on auto and still had a very small positive charge.
Moral of the story DO NOT BUY THIS DOCK unless you dont mind it just being a piece of plastic that holds your phone in place.
I wonder if there's a quick mod to it to get it working right. Like the soldering of the USB chargers I've seen.
Rezound
I just went ahead and bought an extra battery so I wouldn't have to charge in the car. Only takes 20 seconds to pop in a new battery.
Can charge both batts while I sleep at night.
Sent from my Galaxy Tab 10.1
I was looking for a high current charger for my Android tablet and there was a review that talked about compatibility. Some of the high cap chargers appear to be designed for Apple products and the pin wiring is subtly different. So, on some non-Apple products, the charge is only recognized as a lower power, 500mah charger and the users reported that some devices would normally charge and others would not. Some of the dual port charges also split the power. The 2.1 amp port and the 1 amp port cannot be used at the same time, depending on what is plugged into them. This was also brand specific. I ordered the Amazon Basics 2.1 amp dual charger and will see how that works. I have noticed a difference in charge rates between my Motorola charger left over from the Blackberry and the Verizon OEM one. The VZW one is faster.
I do the same thing I have been doing since my Windows phone days.
I use the AC cord plugged into a 12v to AC adaptor(screen set to 100% bright and no timeout).
I drove 6 hours last week ruuning Google Maps/GPS & my battery was 100% charged when I got to my destination.
~John

How long to charge???

The beast? I got mine but haven't powered it up yet for charging purposes. There is no light indicator that tells you when its done.
Got mine yesterday and I charged via AC and it took about 3 hours to complete. After letting it drain over night after 8 hours of heavy usage, I'm charging via USB and it's taking forever. With it on and after 2 hours, it was only at 15%. Now turned it off and it's been 3 hours and it looks like 75%. BTW, press the power button once and the screen will show the batter gauge.
you should charge it while turned on and for 6 hours or more for 4-5 cycles. Let it go down to 5% for those 4-5 cycles. Do not let it turn off from lack of power.
That is from instructions I received from a third party battery which had these detailed instruction to maximize capacity. I am sure you will get 1000 different ways but that is what I use and have always had good battery life.
iLAofficial said:
The beast? I got mine but haven't powered it up yet for charging purposes. There is no light indicator that tells you when its done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While powered off, you can hit the volume button to get a visual on the batter status.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA App
This thing pretty much requires the cable that came with it to charge at full speed. Older MicroUSB cables charge at a much slower rate and are recognized as USB devices when plugged in. It must be because of the higher capacity battery. When you have the right cable plugged in, though, it charges pretty fast.
I'm noticing that even using the wall charger and the USB cable it came with, it's taking about an hour for the Note to charge only 15%. Anyone else noticing this? Is it normal that the first batch of charges takes this long (at that rate it would take 6+ hours to charge from 0-100%)?
My note charges very fast when I use the ac adapter and super slow when I use the us from my computer. About 1.5 hours on the ac and more than 3 hours on my pc's us
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA App
Its always a good idea to charge using the AC wall adapter. The USB port on a computer usually supplies ~.5A @ 5v to charge the phone, the included Samsung wall charger supplies double that with 1.0A @ 5v. That is the reason you see such a big difference in your charging times.
(Some computers now supply more than .5A through USB, but .5A is most common)
USB3.0 can supply 5.0v @ 950mA to charge, but the kernel isn't set up to take advantage of this, I'll see if I can change that (it would only affect charging while booted)
Just shy of the AC adapter for those of us with USB3 ports
ulkesh said:
I'm noticing that even using the wall charger and the USB cable it came with, it's taking about an hour for the Note to charge only 15%. Anyone else noticing this? Is it normal that the first batch of charges takes this long (at that rate it would take 6+ hours to charge from 0-100%)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same here..
Da_G said:
USB3.0 can supply 5.0v @ 950mA to charge, but the kernel isn't set up to take advantage of this, I'll see if I can change that (it would only affect charging while booted)
Just shy of the AC adapter for those of us with USB3 ports
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was excited reading this because my new laptop has a 3.0 port. However, I then remembered that my power brick for my laptop is kick ass and has a USB port that charges devices at 1A anyways. Haha.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda premium
So I got it down to 5% and then I plugged it in at around 8pm and at 11pm it was at 100%. Not bad, not great but seems about right. Now my question is I see a notification that battery is fully charged and to unplug charger but Im going to bed soon and am going to leave it plugged over night. Is this risking the battery in any way?
ygong said:
same here..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here rooted on on demand cpu governor.
Da_G said:
USB3.0 can supply 5.0v @ 950mA to charge, but the kernel isn't set up to take advantage of this, I'll see if I can change that (it would only affect charging while booted)
Just shy of the AC adapter for those of us with USB3 ports
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be the only use for my USB3.0 ports so far. Have yet to even need to utilize it.
The charger that comes with the Note can charge the battery in 3hours via ac. I wouldn't suggest to charge via usb, just because it's way too slow. Im using my playbook charger to charge my Note, Galaxy Nexus , and my bb 9900. This charger is 1.8a, it nearly charges 2x faster than the regular 1a that comes with most phones. Same thing for my car charger 2a, i even use my ipad charger to charge my iphone 4s and it's way faster!! Use more powerful chargers... Not more than 2a or your device might melt down!!
Sent from my iPad 3G
big samm said:
The charger that comes with the Note can charge the battery in 3hours via ac. I wouldn't suggest to charge via usb, just because it's way too slow. Im using my playbook charger to charge my Note, Galaxy Nexus , and my bb 9900. This charger is 1.8a, it nearly charges 2x faster than the regular 1a that comes with most phones. Same thing for my car charger 2a, i even use my ipad charger to charge my iphone 4s and it's way faster!! Use more powerful chargers... Not more than 2a or your device might melt down!!
Sent from my iPad 3G
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's weird. I was under the impression that GS Note only accepts 1.0A of power. Well at least that's what it saids at the back of the phone. I've got an iPad charger that draws out 2.1A, maybe I should give that a try.

Nexus 10 charging time, with graph

Hi *@*,
I like to know exactly how long my gadgets need to charge, so I made this graph.
-charging started at 1% battery left
-WiFi/sync ON, display OFF
-original 5V/2A charger and cable used
Total charging time: 6h 8min, about 18%/h (between 0% and ~80%).
Enjoy!
Valynor said:
Hi *@*,
I like to know exactly how long my gadgets need to charge, so I made this graph.
-charging started at 1% battery left
-WiFi/sync ON, display OFF
-original 5V/2A charger and cable used
Total charging time: 6h 8min, about 18%/h (between 0% and ~80%).
Enjoy!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What amperage is the charger rated for? Has anyone tried charging it with a Samsung Galaxy Note 2 charger?
airbus001 said:
What amperage is the charger rated for? Has anyone tried charging it with a Samsung Galaxy Note 2 charger?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Valynor said:
-original 5V/2A charger and cable used
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please try reading before you post. :cyclops:
Where's my pogo pin charger? ha ha, thanks for the graph btw.
Awesome, this is one of those things that I like knowing, but am always too lazy to do myself.
tcb4 said:
Where's my pogo pin charger? ha ha, thanks for the graph btw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought I saw in an article that it looked like Google/Samsung was going to have a pogo charger in box, but pulled it at "the last minute." Don't know if it's true, but a bummer all around that we didn't get one.
Also, this comment: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=34249045&postcount=6
thats a long time for a 2amp charger
seems to work with my 1amp note charger though
Has anyone look looked in the sysfs to get a better idea of how much power the tablet is actually drawing from the charger? I know the charger is 5v/2a but what is the tablet actually reporting. It is possible that the tablet is incorrectly identifying the charger and only allowing ~1a. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened.
Iam very happy with micro usb charging.
+ >4 chargers at home (not easy to find the right ones, but galaxy note charger has enough power)
+ battery life increases (slow charging)
i dont need the pogo charger for charging - but its good to have a dock connector
Mine took forever also. Goodness
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
SpenZerX said:
Iam very happy with micro usb charging.
+ >4 chargers at home (not easy to find the right ones, but galaxy note charger has enough power)
+ battery life increases (slow charging)
i dont need the pogo charger for charging - but its good to have a dock connector
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Note 2 charger is 2 amp so it should charge just as quick
I was around 8% or so, and then I left my N10 to charge overnight (5-6 hours) from the wall charger. Woke up to it fully charged
Had WiFi enabled, sync on, and Asphalt 7 downloading in the background.
I was at 37% at 1:30am, woke up at 7am and it was only at 61%. Given, this was using a staples brand dual USB wall port with my GSIII plugged in as well. I certainly hope they release a pogo charger soon.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda app-developers app
dalingrin said:
Has anyone look looked in the sysfs to get a better idea of how much power the tablet is actually drawing from the charger? I know the charger is 5v/2a but what is the tablet actually reporting. It is possible that the tablet is incorrectly identifying the charger and only allowing ~1a. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
or a current app/widge that works?
i have one for my Note,but wont work on the Nexus 10
so if i get an apple charger or equiivalent from Ebay, the ones with 12W rating 2-2.4A will it chargee my N10 faster than the stock one? im guessing not by much. currently its taking 6-7 hours to charge. and if i forget to charge it over night, then kinda useless next day.
If anyone is looking for an alternative USB to AC charger, get the one from the HP touchpad. It's one of the best ones out, topping garbage like the apple one.
mustafansu said:
so if i get an apple charger or equiivalent from Ebay, the ones with 12W rating 2-2.4A will it chargee my N10 faster than the stock one? im guessing not by much. currently its taking 6-7 hours to charge. and if i forget to charge it over night, then kinda useless next day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the tablet wont charge at a higher amp than its designed to,not sure what amount is, but probably is 2amp
and yeah i forgot last night, so im slave to the charger today
my asus infinity that im selling on ebay now because of this, took 2.2 hours from 0 to full
My iPad 3 takes 7.5 hours to charge from 0% to 100%. So this sounds pretty similar.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
espionage724 said:
I was around 8% or so, and then I left my N10 to charge overnight (5-6 hours) from the wall charger. Woke up to it fully charged
Had WiFi enabled, sync on, and Asphalt 7 downloading in the background.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
5or6hours isn't a very good nights sleep.
9000mah battery, 2000ma charger, a little amperage falloff when its mostly full which you can see in the graph... It should take ~5 hours.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda premium
SpenZerX said:
Iam very happy with micro usb charging.
+ >4 chargers at home (not easy to find the right ones, but galaxy note charger has enough power)
+ battery life increases (slow charging)
i dont need the pogo charger for charging - but its good to have a dock connector
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So let me ask you 'what do you do nwhen you doing something on the tablet and its dies on you plug it in and wait 8 hours to charge it ?
What if it's in the middle of the day ? Not using it for 8 hours ? So than what's the point having it. ??
Its %#$%& ANOYING. !!
We need a pogo charger ASAP. !!

Xperia cradle and 10% battery issue

Hello
For the first time I let my XTZ drop below 40% battery.
I chargy only with the Sony's cradle since I don't really carry it around.
I get to putting it on charge when it reached 10% battery, but few secconds after it showed charge animation a pop up appeared that battery is low and should be charged. This kept showing every few secconds.
It looked as the charger contacts where not making good connection. So I tried moving it around, checked the contact pins and the lever if it pulls them out and springs where working. It all seamed to work ok. It was late and I had it wet 3-4 hours ago so I just left it off the dock till morning.
When I got up I tried to put it to charge again, but same buggy pop up started to appear...
Now I left to work, set sound off and left it to charge with hopes above 10% it will be ok...
Anyone else experienced this?
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
Well I have my problem solved lol.
As engineer I don't usually read everything about the spec...
So the charger I used was rated at 2A, industrial quality mind you, while the cradle is actually rated at 1.8A input and 1.8a output...
I tought the cradle is just two wires and some weights, but seems to be more than this.
Anyway the XTZ started to charge fine with the Sony charger at 1.5A.
The tablet also charges faster with the 2A charger, but only from the USB.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
Rozamar said:
Well I have my problem solved lol.
As engineer I don't usually read everything about the spec...
So the charger I used was rated at 2A, industrial quality mind you, while the cradle is actually rated at 1.8A input and 1.8a output...
I tought the cradle is just two wires and some weights, but seems to be more than this.
Anyway the XTZ started to charge fine with the Sony charger at 1.5A.
The tablet also charges faster with the 2A charger, but only from the USB.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it's the rating of the charger - I had just posted this in the "battery broken?" thread in this forum :
GretaLewd said:
Charged mine for a while this morning in the Sony dock with power on, wifi on, screen off. Like others, I use an iPad charger (2.1A).
The battery went from 11% to 55% in about 2 hours, so about 22% per hour - though I think it slows down as the % gets higher.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been using an iPad charger for the last 6 weeks to charge my SXTZ either directly through the USB port or "indirectly" through the Sony docking cradle. I've had no problems - as you can see from the above quote.
By the way (not that it matters) I'm an engineer (electronic) too.

Incipio battery mod not charging

As the title states my battery mod fails to charge on charges other than turbo charger, has anyone had luck with working with a different charger?
Mine charges fine on a generic USB-C charger. It's obviously slower, but it works.
I thought I was having the same problem a couple of days ago. It looked like the phone was only charging and the Incipio power pack wasn't. The internal phone battery reached 100% but the mod was showing 0%. I decided to just leave it and surely enough it was charging, just really really slowly. I was using a normal portable charger with a USB-C cable as I was away from home. It takes a very long time to charge both using this setup. Then again, I've found that the battery pack in general takes a long time to charge in comparison to the phone even when using the supplied turbo charger.
HTH
Ooms
dj_ooms said:
I thought I was having the same problem a couple of days ago. It looked like the phone was only charging and the Incipio power pack wasn't. The internal phone battery reached 100% but the mod was showing 0%. I decided to just leave it and surely enough it was charging, just really really slowly. I was using a normal portable charger with a USB-C cable as I was away from home. It takes a very long time to charge both using this setup. Then again, I've found that the battery pack in general takes a long time to charge in comparison to the phone even when using the supplied turbo charger.
HTH
Ooms
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if anyone else has this issue? I have the Tumi power pack wireless charging battery mod and it charges extremely. I'm using the stock 30w Turbo charger that came with the phone. I loaded up Amphere and the rate I was getting was 290 mah.
I've noticed that while using the phone while charging, when the phone is @100 & [email protected], every time the phone drops to 99 it stops charging the pack and then charges the phone. So, I will just pop the battery on a wireless charger or not use my phone while charging the battery. I have this cool qi/qc3.0 hub that makes charging my phone AND battery a breeze, so that's what I will often do.
Hello I have Moto Z and the Incipio power. It was charging before with phone with the type c charger which come with box but now I don't know the reason the Incipio doesn't charge !! when connect the Incipio give me notification with 97% and after 3 sec it is 0% and not charging from the power or charging the phone same also when power off the phone !! Could you please advise?
Using the official turbocharger provided by Motorola, the Battery pack and the phone battery will both charge at the same time. I have noticed using a generic charger/USB-C cable via the PC to charge, it charges the phone battery first and then only will charge the battery pack (once the phone reaches 100%). That is my experience...

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