Is it better to charge them separately?
From what I heard, the dock charges the Tablet. So if I charged with the two connected, the dock would charge, and it would in turn charge the Tablet...sounds kind of inefficient to me, and maybe even bad?
I usually charge my TF101 tablet from it's dock and have done so since September, perfectly fine and no negative impact on the battery. Just don't make a habbit of burning the batteries too low, like 1% before you charge.
My dock does drain a little faster after having gone through a bunch of heavy discharges but that's why I usually charge before I get to like 3% .
Spidey01 said:
I usually charge my TF101 tablet from it's dock and have done so since September, perfectly fine and no negative impact on the battery. Just don't make a habbit of burning the batteries too low, like 1% before you charge.
My dock does drain a little faster after having gone through a bunch of heavy discharges but that's why I usually charge before I get to like 3% .
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That's odd since it is recommended that you run the batteries down before charging them instead of putting it on the charger before it gets below 10%. Charging them without running the power down has a negative effect on the amount of charge it can hold.
That is not required anymore.The ideal charge level for these batteries is about 40%.
Charge cycles aren't a problem either so discharge is required once a month or even more.
These devices use LiPo and Co batteries.
For these, it is recommended NOT to fully let the battery discharge (unlike older batteries with memory effect).
It is however recommended to fully charge then fully discharge your battery ONCE when you first use it on order to calibrate the battery (ie: let the software learn what level means full and what level means empty)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
eraursls1984 said:
That's odd since it is recommended that you run the batteries down before charging them instead of putting it on the charger before it gets below 10%. Charging them without running the power down has a negative effect on the amount of charge it can hold.
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You can check the link in my Sig. there is some info on recent batteries and calibration.
Yup, running it till it shuts off is mainly to calibrate the battery gauge. Most Lion batteries have auto shutoffs built into them to prevent discharging past the point of no return (which is why ebay batteries are so cheap, usually they lack this and other features, like temp sensors to kill the device before it melts)
As to charging both devices, i dont see how charging each together would harm anything aside from running more power through the dock might eventually wear it out? Honestly i dont think you have anything to worry about XD
But I can see the dock being discharged to zero so often. So far it has happened 4 times without me even knowing it since its often connected to the tablet. I wish there was a way to use the dock and disable the charging to the tablet.
Its better to have a few full discharge n full charge cycle for any new battery operated product to maximize the new battery capacity after a few cycles it will reach its peak capacity.
iceman127 said:
Its better to have a few full discharge n full charge cycle for any new battery operated product to maximize the new battery capacity after a few cycles it will reach its peak capacity.
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But I'm sure on many occasions just by the usage and nature of the dock that it will end up being drained to 0% quite often. I don't think my dock battery will survive too long -.-
Related
Hey,
Just thinking, anyone please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know both the tablet and the dock have a Lithium-ion battery
From my knowledge, to keep lithium ion batteries in the best state you have to keep them between 20% and 80%, and not under/over charge them. The dock kinda seems to contradict this, because its constantly overcharging the tablet. This is extremely bad for the battery and greatly reduces the life span and capacity. Think of it as a laptop that you have in the socket 24/7, if you do this for half a year, the battery wont last for more then 30 mins. This, in a way, is resulting in the same problem.
Maybe this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find it, but isn't this a major design flaw? The dock should have some on/off charge switch.
It's not that simple. The Transformer, like every cell phone, laptop, and tablet using LiIon cells uses a charge controller chip that monitors charging current, pack voltage, pack temperature, discharge rate, and charge history to optimally control the power being fed to the battery from the charging input. The charge controller has a programmed hysteresis that keeps the battery from constantly charging (trickle charge) once it reaches its max capacity. Without a charge controller, the pack would eventually overheat and catch fire.
It is true that fully charged LiIon batteries will degrade in capacity over months to years. It's more damaging to the battery though to run it through a complete cycle (completely discharge). The best thing you can do for your battery without shelving the TF is to charge it every night to keep from unnecessarily running the battery down the next day.
In short, the Transformer can look after itself.
Also, this.
Thanks for your reply.
I might have used the wrong wording, I understand they have charge controllers to prevent the batteries from overcharging and exploding or catching fire. What I ment by overcharging was, charging it while the battery is already full, and undercharging - not charging it enough by letting it go into a deep discharge too often.
As stated in your link, "partial-discharge cycles can greatly increase cycle life, and charging to less than 100% capacity can increase battery life even further"
The dock keeps pushing it to 100%, and keeps it at 100% - reducing its battery life. Also, because you can not disable the dock charge, assuming you are constantly want to use the keyboard which I do, it will go into a deep discharge, also reducing the battery life of the dock. As often said, the best state for LiIon batteries is between 40% and 80%, this is hard to archive for both the dock and tablet due to it constant charging the tablet to full.
In order to preserve the best battery life, you must un-dock the tablet around 90% - and charge the dock whenever it reaches below 40% or so. Meeting both these requirements, while wanting to use the dock constantly seems like a burden. Not doing this, will rapidly decrease the capacity from my understanding.
Please correct me if I'm wrong though.
I don't see why people worry so much about this. It takes a few years for there to be any noticeable loss in battery life on lithium ion batteries, and even longer for it to become a significant burden.
It took me five years of daily usage of my old Toshiba laptop to wear down the battery to about half its original capacity, and it's still usable with only 2.5 hours of battery life. If we assume similar rules would apply to the Transformer, after 4-5 years you could still achieve a maximum of 8 hours on a single charge. If anything, by that time you'd be more concerned about how sluggish the device feels when compared to the newest tech, especially when browsing the web.
I notice that there's a warning message when the phone is fully charged, advising you to disconnect the charger. I usually leave my phone charging every night, meaning that it's still connected to the charger for hours after it's fully charged. I'm pretty sure that the S2 has "smart" charging, but would the overnight charging damage the battery by exposing it to unnecessary heat for this extended period?
No it shouldn't. Like you said the phone has the ability to shut off the charge when the battery reaches 100%.
I've been charging mine all night for most nights out of the past 3-4 months and it's fine.
That warning is essentially Samsung's attempt to give you a green consciousness, since leaving the charger connected to the wall draws a trickle of current. Sammy figures that millions of people following those instructions to the letter will help save the planet.
It will reduce your batteries life, leaving it on the charger. Will it does stop charging it then drains to 99% then tops it up, which over time uses up the recharge cycles and will reduce the time until it can't hold a charge.
Lithium ion battery doesn't have recharge cycle.
jzmtl said:
Lithium ion battery doesn't have recharge cycle.
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Exactly. This was true until Litium Ion batteries came the norm in handsets.
Nowadays its just to be seen as being 'green'
That is strange since this site devoted to teaching about batteries makes it seem like they do. But also reading it says that being at a constant full charge is more damaging then cycling the battery.
That is in the second paragraph under the "Depth of discharge" chart on this site
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
With the frequency cellphone batteries are charge/discharged, they crap out after two years anyway, and unlike some other fruity product it takes us 10 seconds to plop in a new one, so don't worry about it.
Even if it damaged your battery the effect wouldn't come noticeable before a long time I think. And in case the battery does get damaged, you can always replace it, that's one of the nice things about this phone, if you compare it for example to an iphone.
tomascunill said:
...And in case the battery does get damaged, you can always replace it, that's one of the nice things about this phone, if you compare it for example to an iphone.
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exactly why i didn't buy an iphone
The only things really damaging your battery are:
- excessive heat
- heavy use while charging
- turning on the phone over and over after it turned itself off on it's own due to low battery
there are more, for sure, but just to name a few.
I always charge my phones over night and my HD2's battery is as good as ever after 2 years. My SGS2's battery is still the same, and I still thing that when the battery is full there are no discharge/recharge cycles but something like a suspend mode in the charger.
There seems to be a debate on this topic as to whether you should do a FULL drain on your battery and I wanted to know what people's thoughts were on this in this forum.
I've used my phone twice now to the point where it has auto powered down on it's own. I will then hit the 'Power' button to ensure that battery is truly at 0% (the capacitative buttons blink for a second to confirm that I've hit the power button but there is no more juice left to turn the phone on).
I will plug into the wall charger and allow it to charge for 4 hours (usually around 4 hours, I'll check back to see and hit the power button and the onscreen battery display will show 100% charged).
I will unplug my phone, power on and keep using until the phone fully drains and powers off on it's own again before repeating this cycle.
However, others have stated that this is NOT necessary for Lithium Ion battery and can actually damage the circuitry of the battery? I've always been under the impression that you need to do a complete & full battery drain for lithium ion batteries at least 3 -5 full cycles/times before the battery has been conditioned/optimized for capacity.
Maybe I'm wrong...after all I'm coming from a G1 and this practice helped my atrocious battery life on that dinosaur!
If this is wrong, when should I be plugging my phone back in to charge? When it gives me the first warning to charge in (battery level turns orange - I assume this about 20% battery left) or on the "critical" battery warning when the battery icon in the notification panel turns red (assuming this is about 10% battery left)?
from what I've read in the past, letting your phone drain completely down until it shuts itself off is not good for the battery. I could be wrong but thats what I've read
nyydynasty said:
from what I've read in the past, letting your phone drain completely down until it shuts itself off is not good for the battery. I could be wrong but thats what I've read
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Yeah, I've heard both sides and I've conditioned my battery for the G1 because it seemed to drain faster if I plugged it into charge when there was 30% or so still left.
Well, I've done two complete cycles so I guess I'll just try recharging when it hits the red mark next time.
When you plug in to charge? Orange, red or whenever to top off?
i plug my phone in when i go to bed. I dont care what the battery is at. I also charge it while i'm at work so when I leave, its around 90-100%. My battery rarely reaches red.
nyydynasty said:
i plug my phone in when i go to bed. I dont care what the battery is at. I also charge it while i'm at work so when I leave, its around 90-100%. My battery rarely reaches red.
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LOL - that would prematurely killed my battery capacity on the G1! I went thru two batteries before I started draining all the way down. Made a difference between 4-6 hours and 6-10 hours.
Seems like this phone doesn't need to do that tho.
But what're you getting on average for battery life and display on time then?
nyydynasty said:
i plug my phone in when i go to bed. I dont care what the battery is at. I also charge it while i'm at work so when I leave, its around 90-100%. My battery rarely reaches red.
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I do the exact same thing. First with my Captivate and now with the SGS2 and the battery life on my captivate held pretty much exactly the same charge for the entire 15 months I used it. The battery on this SGS2 seems to last about 150-175% of the Captivate battery under the same conditions. I just came back from a week on the road where I spent 9-12 hours a day away from a charger and was using my phone constantly all day long and would get back to the hotel room with 30-40% battery left. Considering I was listening to music, playing plants vs zombies and sending and reading push email constantly throughout the day I am very satisfied with the battery life on this phone. I've never done any kind of conditioning or special battery maintenance.
DefTaker said:
LOL - that would prematurely killed my battery capacity on the G1! I went thru two batteries before I started draining all the way down. Made a difference between 4-6 hours and 6-10 hours.
Seems like this phone doesn't need to do that tho.
But what're you getting on average for battery life and display on time then?
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i stopped looking at my battery stats a long time ago. I'll peak in there once in a while but I dont really care what the stats show because I'm always around a charger. As long as I get through 12 hours or so without charging, i'm happy.
Some devices need a full drain cycle to properly calibrate the fuel gauge - ours does NOT.
Lithium ion batteries don't like deep discharging - in fact discharging them too much will permanently damage them (fortunately, all batteries sold to end users have built-in protection chips to prevent overdischarge - but do you REALLY want to rely on that chip?)
Similarly, they don't like charge being forced into them - so don't "bump charge". (Bump charging is removing and immediately reinserting the charger when the phone says charging is complete.)
For long-term storage, store them at around 50% capacity if not being used. LiIons that are stored at 100% charge lose capacity MUCH faster than ones stored at 50%.
A Li-Ion that has been sitting for a long time (months...) will develop a passivation layer that can be detrimental to performance - a few charge/discharge cycles will fix this. You don't need to do a full discharge/recharge - probably even from 90 to 70 and back up a few times should be fine.
Entropy512 said:
Some devices need a full drain cycle to properly calibrate the fuel gauge - ours does NOT.
Lithium ion batteries don't like deep discharging - in fact discharging them too much will permanently damage them (fortunately, all batteries sold to end users have built-in protection chips to prevent overdischarge - but do you REALLY want to rely on that chip?)
Similarly, they don't like charge being forced into them - so don't "bump charge". (Bump charging is removing and immediately reinserting the charger when the phone says charging is complete.)
For long-term storage, store them at around 50% capacity if not being used. LiIons that are stored at 100% charge lose capacity MUCH faster than ones stored at 50%.
A Li-Ion that has been sitting for a long time (months...) will develop a passivation layer that can be detrimental to performance - a few charge/discharge cycles will fix this. You don't need to do a full discharge/recharge - probably even from 90 to 70 and back up a few times should be fine.
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what about short charging during the course of the day? For instance, while I'm at work, I like to plug it in for a bit and then use it off the charger. Then before I leave, I charge it again for a bit. Do you think thats okay to charge the phone for short ~1 hour bursts?
No, the battery itself doesn't do well with deep discharges, but every device with one has circuitry to manage this and keep it from happening. The phone will shut off before the battery reaches a critically low discharge state. Just as it will cease charging before it blows up. Just because the phone shuts off does not mean that the battery is too low.
Assuming the phone has the proper cutoffs, it's not really any different to do two discharges to 50% or one to 100%. There have been studies that say leaving it on a charger is bad, doing two 50% cycles is worse than one 100%, etc. I've always just trusted that the phone manufacturers design the battery monitor and control circuits correctly and not worry much about it. And I've never had to replace a battery yet and always get acceptable life.
It's lithium ion, not nickel cadmium.
Full drains are bad for lithium ion.
Sent from my SGS II
nyydynasty said:
what about short charging during the course of the day? For instance, while I'm at work, I like to plug it in for a bit and then use it off the charger. Then before I leave, I charge it again for a bit. Do you think thats okay to charge the phone for short ~1 hour bursts?
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That's the best way to charge it.
Sent from my SGS II
MikeyMike01 said:
That's the best way to charge it.
Sent from my SGS II
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that makes me even more glad that its what I've been doing forever - lol
thanks
lithium ion batteries dont like being under 30%. and they also dont do well if they are kept at 80 percent or above all the time. for longest battery life don't just let it sit on the charger all day after it fully charges.
I agree with Mikey here.
Also, batteries take charging current better (less wear) at lower states of charge. That's why I put a variable-current charging algorithm into my Infuse kernels (charginghacks branch on github)
800 mA at low voltages (200 above stock), dropping to 550 near the end (50 below stock).
Unfortunately, charginghacks is likely not going to be possible with our hardware. One of the differences between the I9100 and I777 is a different battery charger circuit - ours is far less flexible.
Entropy512 said:
I agree with Mikey here.
Also, batteries take charging current better (less wear) at lower states of charge. That's why I put a variable-current charging algorithm into my Infuse kernels (charginghacks branch on github)
800 mA at low voltages (200 above stock), dropping to 550 near the end (50 below stock).
Unfortunately, charginghacks is likely not going to be possible with our hardware. One of the differences between the I9100 and I777 is a different battery charger circuit - ours is far less flexible.
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This phone actually charges with the screen on though, so it's not like the Infuse where the battery would drain with the screen on and the phone charging.
MikeyMike01 said:
This phone actually charges with the screen on though, so it's not like the Infuse where the battery would drain with the screen on and the phone charging.
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Infuse would charge with the screen on - but not if the screen was on AND the CPU was cranking.
(worst-case was navigation at full brightness - and I've seen reports that the I9100 also has the same problem.)
Entropy512 said:
Infuse would charge with the screen on - but not if the screen was on AND the CPU was cranking.
(worst-case was navigation at full brightness - and I've seen reports that the I9100 also has the same problem.)
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When web browsing, playing a game, or other general use late at night I'd plug the Infuse into the charger. It would still drain. Doing the same on the SGS II and it at the very least maintains it's battery level, so it's a drastic improvement over the Infuse.
To get the best battery life, when should I charge my phone? When the phone almost runs out of juice, or whenever I can (below 80%) ? Please help!
Deep discharges are bad, but so is spending lots of time at maximum charge.
I'd consider charging around when you hit 80% if it's convenient, but if you're expecting to be on battery for a while soon, top off whenever you want.
Discharging to 5-15% is bad for your battery longterm.
So to get the best battery, I should charge when it is $80 right?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
kvl19 said:
So to get the best battery, I should charge when it is $80 right?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
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There's no hard fast rule about 'exactly' when you should recharge it. Simply try and keep the phone from running < 20% a lot and never keep it always charged at 100%. If you get in the habit of charging in the 30-80% range, that would be best.
Basically throw out the old mentality of always using it as much as possible before recharging as lithium batteries simply don't work like the old nicad batteries from years past.
This phone uses a Li-Ion battery, and these batteries do NOT have any kind of "memory." Charge it whenever you want to. However, it's not really good to always keep it "topped off." (Deep discharges are also not good.)
If you are going to store the battery, drop it to 75%-50% charged first.
There are some things to consider, however:
If the phone's power circuit bypasses the battery when the battery is fully charge (instead of constantly pulling power from the battery while the battery is recharging), then leaving the phone plugged in is better than constant charge/discharge cycles. Based on the fact that this phone will work properly with NO battery attached when plugged in, this is probably a true statement (but I can't know for sure.)
Second, the phone itself might like to see the battery charged/discharged once in a while to calibrate the battery monitoring circuitry. (You never calibrate a li-ion battery - only the circuitry that monitors the battery.)
Here's a link with some interesting information:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Take care
Gary
Got it. Thanks for all your information
A small note to add why you shouldn't 'keep' it above 80% (constant top offs and being left on the charger). In general when above 80% it's been found that lithium ion batteries have a 'higher state of activity'.
What that does to the battery is what it sounds like. Higher state of activity means higher wear and overall shorter lifespan.
That wear is easily seen in laptops. Many people have the habit of leaving them always plugged in while using and through the night, so they're always 'ready to go'. People who consistently do this to their laptops usually find after 1 year the battery life is noticeably shorter, 1 1/2 years 50% or so of 'new' capacity, and after 2 years looking at replacing the battery.
And I usually find a cheap deal on eBay for them, plus $50-75 for me. At least phone batteries are a bit cheaper.
Sent from my páhhōniē
Does leaving your Galaxy Note plugged in after it has reached 100% charged harm the battery?
From what I heard and read numerous times, you shouldn't leave a phone on a charger for more than 24 hours. I have heard many different opinions on this, but I think leaving a phone to charge overnight (6-10 hours average???) on a consistent base shouldn't harm the battery in general.
Is there "memory"?
Ceasare said:
Is there "memory"?
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Only in nickel cadmium batteries
I thought with Li-ion batteries its the number of total charges before it starts going bad?
ukic said:
I thought with Li-ion batteries its the number of total charges before it starts going bad?
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Yep. Same with all batteries.
Hard to say how many charge cycles the OEM batteries are rated for.
From Samsung sdi...
No Memory Effect
Lithium ion batteries have no memory effect, as seen in Ni-Cd and Ni-MH batteries, from which repeated charging and discharging reduces charging capacity to an insufficient level.
Long Life Cycle
Lithium ion batteries last through more than 500 repeated charges and discharges, making them very economical.
also from other readings...
I am pretty sure that Lithium-ion batteries for smartphones cannot be overcharged because the device's circuitry stops charging the moment it reaches 100% and allows it to drop a certain % till it recharges. That's why sometimes your phone's battery % will reduce so quickly after a full charge because it is really not at 100% when you unplug it.
Manufacturers, however, will still recommend disconnecting after a full charge.
Another...
it is not good to allow your Lithiumo-ion battery to fully drain then recharge repeatedly, as many suggest, to "train" your phone...that's puts a stress on the battery and is not good.
A low % (15-20%) then recharging to full one time will reset the meter and make it more accurate but not lengthen the batteries life.
all that said...I plug mine in at night and unplug in the morning.
This link talks about the Samsung battery and charging. It sounds educated on the issue but who knows....
http://www.geeksailor.com/how-to-improve-samsung-galaxy-note-battery-life/
Summary
1. Use wall charger not computer
2. Unplug when charged
3. Don't recharge until battery is below 10%
I put the phone on my desk dock every night whether it needs it or not. I do find myself topping it off too much also.