My wife got her CG dock last night, and while I had no intention of getting one for my AG one, after using it for about 30 seconds, I decided to go out and get one.
I've read through the Charge Policy thread but wanted to confirm the behavior I'm seeing today.
Scenario:
Dock Charge Level- 100%
Tablet Charge Level- 100%
AC Charging adapter is plugged into the dock and the AC outlet.
Tablet screen is on.
Slowly, the tablet charge decreases.
I would expect the tablet and dock to remain at 100% while the AC adapter is plugged in, but understand there may be some other behavior by design.
Is what I'm experiencing normal or an issue with my dock/tablet or configuration?
Thanks for any help.
2 Primes, no problems with either other than weak GPS...
Thats probably normal.
chamberc said:
My wife got her CG dock last night, and while I had no intention of getting one for my AG one, after using it for about 30 seconds, I decided to go out and get one.
I've read through the Charge Policy thread but wanted to confirm the behavior I'm seeing today.
Scenario:
Dock Charge Level- 100%
Tablet Charge Level- 100%
AC Charging adapter is plugged into the dock and the AC outlet.
Tablet screen is on.
Slowly, the tablet charge decreases.
I would expect the tablet and dock to remain at 100% while the AC adapter is plugged in, but understand there may be some other behavior by design.
Is what I'm experiencing normal or an issue with my dock/tablet or configuration?
Thanks for any help.
2 Primes, no problems with either other than weak GPS...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same for me, starting with the OG Transformer. I was "Thinking on the KB/Dock" when a friend at work let me try his dock on my tablet. Bought it like 15 minutes later on Amazon, LOL!
I think what you are seeing is normal, but keep an eye on it. My OG Transformer would completely discharge the dock, and only then start draining the tablet. On the Prime, it seems to drain Tablet to 70-%, then lets that dock sacrifice it's electrons for the Tablets sake. Then the Tablet drains some more and so on. Makes sense, as with the TF101 the Tablet was never getting cycled most days, I would take it to work, and at the end of the day stick it back on charger, and the dock would recharge, tablet never having drained other than a percent or two. Still I would live to understand the algorithms they use to determine optimal performance. Its never efficient to let a battery charge a battery as there will always be losses, but with this design, that's an acceptable loss.
SmartAs$Phone said:
Same for me, starting with the OG Transformer. I was "Thinking on the KB/Dock" when a friend at work let me try his dock on my tablet. Bought it like 15 minutes later on Amazon, LOL!
I think what you are seeing is normal, but keep an eye on it. My OG Transformer would completely discharge the dock, and only then start draining the tablet. On the Prime, it seems to drain Tablet to 70-%, then lets that dock sacrifice it's electrons for the Tablets sake. Then the Tablet drains some more and so on. Makes sense, as with the TF101 the Tablet was never getting cycled most days, I would take it to work, and at the end of the day stick it back on charger, and the dock would recharge, tablet never having drained other than a percent or two. Still I would live to understand the algorithms they use to determine optimal performance. Its never efficient to let a battery charge a battery as there will always be losses, but with this design, that's an acceptable loss.
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Click to collapse
This is the right answer.
By design, it doesn't keep the tablet topped off, but waits until it falls to a particular battery level -- IIRC, around 70%. This optimizes battery life between both batteries and is a more efficient use of energy.
Thanks, i agree i observed it all day and thats how it works.
NeoteriX said:
This is the right answer.
By design, it doesn't keep the tablet topped off, but waits until it falls to a particular battery level -- IIRC, around 70%. This optimizes battery life between both batteries and is a more efficient use of energy.
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Click to collapse
Its an ingenious idea from Asus. My OG Transformer's dock constantly charged the tablet.
Related
This is re-posted from the general forum. It probably should be moved here to warn potential dock purchasers about this ongoing problem:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1112835
Basically, the problem is that the dock's (all of them?) batteries deplete at around 5% per hour when attached to the tablet when in standby. The batteries even seem to deplete when docked to the tablet when the tablet is completely turned off. WiFi on or off doesn't seem to effect the drain very much. Just a bit of cautionary advice for potential dock owners.
Another thread on the topic:
http://www.transformerforums.com/fo...eral-discussions/599-tf-dock-battery-log.html
Definitely not a deal breaker though. A lot of people are just disconnecting their docks after each use and the battery in the dock doesn't drain. Personally I just leave it connected all the time because I typically lose about 2-3% an hour which isn't a big deal to me. Hopefully this will be fixed in a future software update.
Some people have reported getting shorter run time with the doc. To me, that's a deal killer. Anyway, hopefully people will hold off buying the dock and Asus will be forced to address the issue.
el_brio said:
Some people have reported getting shorter run time with the doc. To me, that's a deal killer. Anyway, hopefully people will hold off buying the dock and Asus will be forced to address the issue.
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Click to collapse
I don't know about that, my dock has been connected on my Transformer for about 8 hours and it has been sitting there for most of the day 77%. I have use it during the day though. But I don't think 23% after 8 hours is a deal breaker AT ALL. Even less after I know that I have been using it during the day for short periods of time.
Your results are far better than mine. Do you have the battery widget installed that shows the dock and tablet charge separately? The stock battery app behaves strangely sometimes. Sometimes it will show a charge of 77% and then you will close it and open it back up in an hour and find you have lost 15%. Since you are one of the only ones whose dock seems to be working correctly, could you do a test for us?
1. Download the battery widget listed in the thread in the General forum.
2. Charge to 100%
3. Remove from charger the next day and leave the dock connected to the tab. Leave the tab in "sleep" mode
4. check the DOCK battery level after 8 hours
Thanks!
el_brio said:
Your results are far better than mine. Do you have the battery widget installed that shows the dock and tablet charge separately? The stock battery app behaves strangely sometimes. Sometimes it will show a charge of 77% and then you will close it and open it back up in an hour and find you have lost 15%. Since you are one of the only ones whose dock seems to be working correctly, could you do a test for us?
1. Download the battery widget listed in the thread in the General forum.
2. Charge to 100%
3. Remove from charger the next day and leave the dock connected to the tab. Leave the tab in "sleep" mode
4. check the DOCK battery level after 8 hours
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the battery widget that it's available in the development section and so far it has been working great for me. I will do this and post back the results tomorrow.
If yours is losing <3% per hour while in standby, that isn't too bad. Here is another facet of the problem:
If you turn off the tablet (off... not suspend, tablet only). it loses very little charge when left for long periods of time. If you charge and detach the dock, the dock behaves the same way. If, however, you have the tablet connected to the dock and leave it turned off, you will leak about 1-2% per hour.
Check out the other thread if you get a chance.
Overnight the dock dropped to 77% with the tablet in sleep mode and the tablet was at 99%.
I assumed this was the effect of waste from a trickle charge. Either way I definitely cant say the batter life is shorter with the dock. Its longer, how much I dont know but the girlfriend and i used it solid for a few hours flying with games and such and it didnt even make a dent in the batteries.
didn't happen to me though.. it takes more than 24 hours for a fully my charged dock to drop its battery to 98%...
My dock sat in the closet charged for 5 days because my tf didn't get here till after. When I plugged it in to the tf with the battery widget it had about 60%. I charged it from my friends charger, he didn't get a keyboard. I did the firmware update though. I personally like it.
The drain only occurs when the dock is connected to the tablet.
are you charging the tab on the dock at night, or separately? does it help/hurt it to charge on the dock every night? Thanks
Doesn't the dock expands on to the tablet's battery since it has it's own. I would think when combined you should be able to charge it all at once.
Same as the original transformer. Keep it docked, and plug the keyboard into the charger...it charges both.
I've just been putting my tablet on the dock at night, and then charging them both through the dock. Both are fully charged and ready to go in the morning. I switch a lot between docked and un-docked mode, but even with heavy use during the day, I don't need to re-charge till evening.
when does the dock begin charging the tablet? right now I am on battery battery power, my dock is at 99% but the tablet is at 79, does not appear to be charging.
aawshads said:
when does the dock begin charging the tablet? right now I am on battery battery power, my dock is at 99% but the tablet is at 79, does not appear to be charging.
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Click to collapse
From the FAQ
Why isn’t my Eee Pad fully charged by the mobile docking?
When your Eee Pad is docked and disconnected to a power adapter, the mobile docking only charges your Eee Pad battery up to 90% maximum to protect your battery and prolong its life. The mobile docking recharges once your Eee Pad battery power goes below 70%. The power adapter fully charges your Eee Pad battery to 100% and recharges when below 95%.
then charging it on the dock at night will never get it to 100? where did you find that FAQ?
aawshads said:
then charging it on the dock at night will never get it to 100? where did you find that FAQ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that is only when it's not connected to a power source. when plugged in, both devices will charge to 100%.
curreyr said:
From the FAQ
The power adapter fully charges your Eee Pad battery to 100% and recharges when below 95%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
aawshads said:
then charging it on the dock at night will never get it to 100? where did you find that FAQ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from support site
http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/EeePAD/TF201/TF201_FAQ_en_20111226.pdf
it used to be available from ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/pub/ASUS/EeePAD/TF201/ but that isn't working today ...
I don't know everything about the battery in the tablet, but I know a bit about batteries in general. When it is plugged in, there will be an almost constant charge on the batteries, meaning heat and stress. That is not good for batteries in general and will decrease the lifespan. Now you could very well be done with the tablet soon before the battery gives out, but why take that risk.
As someone who's worked with batteries, albeit, larger that the ones in question, it is a general rule of thumb to keep the batteries between 80% and 20%. That should be good enough for home. If your travelling, yea a full charge is great and won't hurt, but it would be worse than its worth to run the battery all the way down.
Just my recommendations. Not an expert, but I been around the block.
here is a reference site for battery maintenance
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
it is interesting for Li-Ion it says to charge whilst powered off - my phone is always in the cradle - reading this tells me that is about the worst i could do.
Snippet: from above site
"A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better."
This is also why I never buy a cheap charger for my devices - as you never know if the charger circuit is any good and if it switches off at the moment of full charge.
This becomes more important with devices where the battery is not "consumer accessible"
It was around 36% when I was able to access the battery meter following initial startup.
Only took 3 hours till full charge over USB to Wall outlet.
Is this because the USB to Wall outlet is faster charge, and that the 8 hours suggested in the manual is for USB to PC charge?
I don't have my prime yet however, you need to let it charge for 8 hours, even if its fully charged. This will condition your battery. Your manual also states to let it charge 8 hours.
Personally, I think the whole "charge for 8 hours" thing is bunk. No idea why ASUS recommends it, and I can't remember any other manufacturer ever recommending such a long initial charge. I think ASUS just does it to be sure people charge it completely before using.
I mean, seriously, if ASUS was that worried about it they wouldn't design the Prime to turn on when first plugged in. And, I imagine that once the battery hits 100% (signified by the green charging light), there should be a cutoff. So I'm not really sure what charging for 8 hours (or, yes, about 5 hours after it hits 100%) accomplishes.
another reason I love this tab so much. it can go from 0%-100% in 3 hrs. my Ipad takes more than double that time to get full charge. maybe not that long...lol but you know what I'm saying. this also may hold the title of fastest charging tablet.
thanks guys im going to finally go mobile then. Its even showing 100% too.
wynand32 said:
Personally, I think the whole "charge for 8 hours" thing is bunk. No idea why ASUS recommends it, and I can't remember any other manufacturer ever recommending such a long initial charge. I think ASUS just does it to be sure people charge it completely before using.
I mean, seriously, if ASUS was that worried about it they wouldn't design the Prime to turn on when first plugged in. And, I imagine that once the battery hits 100% (signified by the green charging light), there should be a cutoff. So I'm not really sure what charging for 8 hours (or, yes, about 5 hours after it hits 100%) accomplishes.
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Every manufacturer recommends 8 hours AFAIK in their manual or support etc. This is to condition your battery and improve its lifespan. I've had a phone which I didn't charge for 8 hours on first charge, battery life completely screwed up within half a year.
Once it hits 100% you're good to go. After that it will stop charging for a bit then charge after a certain percentage drop. There will be no benefit to charging it after it hits 100%. With Li-Ion technology the whole battery conditioning thing is overblown anyways, these aren't old style NiCd or NiMH that need full draining and full charging everytime and storing with certain charge levels.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
What is the best way to save the battery life, and made a charge lasting longer?
How long should we wait before recharging the Prime? I always wait until it reaches 20-25% before recharging.
I do this about every 2 days, and when I do not use it it's standby if short pause or shut down at night.
I saw a thread somewhere in the forum but could not find it.
I do not use +IPS and brightness is about 20-25...
Not gaming, just surfing and testing Skype with WiFi (BT is not good with WiFi) so it's off
Any help we good suggestions?
Thanks
Bimbobo
My charging habits are:
To keep the battery healthy, keep it cool, I almost never use the tablet while charging off the wall and always turn it off. I've checked the charger brick temp with an IR temp gun and the brick stays 10 to 15 degrees cooler while charging when my Prime is off. This will save the charger.
I usually wait until I am almost drained, usually anywhere from 1 to 20%. With lithium ion batteries there is no "memory" that develops so no worries there. Temperature is the mail killer of Li batteries. You can charge it any discharge state, again Li batteries don't care. I did an experiment and when the Prime is over 95% Even if you put it n the wall charger it doesn't charge. Once it drops below 95% it starts charging. Remember, this s MY Prime, your and everyone will be slightly different depending on the battery and how the software and hardware interact to provide battery conditions (temperature and %).
The dock changes the equation since it probably charges the Prime and a lower current then the wall charger so you can use it while charging. I don't have the dock so I cannot confirm this though. The Prime will charge of the PC USB but ALOT slower and the Prime has to be turned off
This is the way I do it. Everyone is different though.
Thanks,
I always shut down before charging, but it turns on on its own.
Always use the charger, never USB/PC
Yes I wait until 20%.. Temperature, well I never noticed an issue
The house is warm about 21 C, and I never use it in cars or outside.
The dock is not used too much, only few time, and even full charged it seems to drain pretty fast not in use.
I just ask because I can see that WiFi, brightness and standby are main cause for draining.
I cannot measure how long it lasts, and it's not an issue.
The question was just becaus a charge every 2 day.. normally is not a good way to preserve the battery.. But I am ignorant about this matter.
Charging time does seem to vary a bit. I would just charge your prime based on your needs. Li batteries have no memory, so charge it when it needs it. If you do leave your prime in the car, let your prime either warm up or cool down (or in other words, reach room temperature) before connecting to your charger.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
I think that the 70-90% is kind of awkward and highly overuses the tablet inner lipo charge cycles.
Imho Asus should make a utility that alows the user to decide wheter:
The tablet runs from the dock battery with no charge of inner battery
The tablet is being charged from the dock up to 90% as it is reasonable for charge process
The tablet runs on it's own battery without recharge from the dock even though the dock has some juice left.
Any other scheme proposals are welcome .
Above should however vastly improve the quality of our batteries.
At least an option to disable the charge from dock to tablet is imho a must have
ankhazam said:
I think that the 70-90% is kind of awkward and highly overuses the tablet inner lipo charge cycles.
Imho Asus should make a utility that alows the user to decide wheter:
The tablet runs from the dock battery with no charge of inner battery
The tablet is being charged from the dock up to 90% as it is reasonable for charge process
The tablet runs on it's own battery without recharge from the dock even though the dock has some juice left.
Any other scheme proposals are welcome .
Above should however vastly improve the quality of our batteries.
At least an option to disable the charge from dock to tablet is imho a must have
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
could be possible via kernel mods... but you are right, i kinda dislike the current method too.
It's stupid that once I disconnect 2 fully charged modules the tablet battery gets few extra charges from the dock.
That way I cannot treat the dock as a backup battery for running or recharge for when I it is really needed.
Someone please stick this thread and make another offensive on Asus.
It would be sad to root/void the warranty just to get such a must have when it should be done on stock.
agree in 100%
Could someone explain what is the current 'charge policy'?
As as owner of the original Transformer and the headaches it came with the dock discharging charging the tablet all the time and dealing with a dock battery that had issues being registered as charged or recharging (I RMA'd and others had the same issues as well), I love, love, love the way the new charging method is.
With that said, I think choices are good and having ASUS provide a way to let you use it how you want would be nice.
jyan_osu said:
As as owner of the original Transformer and the headaches it came with the dock discharging charging the tablet all the time and dealing with a dock battery that had issues being registered as charged or recharging (I RMA'd and others had the same issues as well), I love, love, love the way the new charging method is.
With that said, I think choices are good and having ASUS provide a way to let you use it how you want would be nice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is the new charging method?
kristovaher said:
What is the new charging method?
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Click to collapse
Instead of always charging from the dock, when docked in it only starts charging the tablet when the tablet gets to around 70% or so.. then it charges the tablet up to around 90% and then runs off the tablet and the cycle continues. So both the tablet and the dock discharge X amount at a time.
Hm, can see both sides to the argument, depends on whether you look at the dock as a battery booster or just to aid the tablet.
A utility would be a good idea to let the user choose, just have an option in the 'ASUS Customised Settings' menu.
jyan_osu said:
Instead of always charging from the dock, when docked in it only starts charging the tablet when the tablet gets to around 70% or so.. then it charges the tablet up to around 90% and then runs off the tablet and the cycle continues. So both the tablet and the dock discharge X amount at a time.
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Click to collapse
Does this mean that when tablet is docked, it sometimes uses tablets own battery and -not- dock battery even when dock battery is charged!? What is the point in that?
I thought that the dock gets discharged first before tablet touches its own battery.
kristovaher said:
Does this mean that when tablet is docket, it sometimes uses tablets own battery and -not- dock battery even when dock battery is charged!? What is the point in that?
I thought that the dock gets discharged first before tablet touches its own battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point maybe to address the issue with the dock in the original design where it did discharge first and causes some issues. It's still using the dock battery when docked, just a different method from how the first one was. You'll still get 16 hours or whatever out if you use both together.
Either way, it's not getting to a point on the tablet where it's going leave you with like an hour left to play with should you undock it.. mid 70s seem to be the lowest it will go so if you do go all day with it docked and in use, the dock battery will get to 0 and the tablet will be around 90
yes there could be a time where you take it off the dock at 75 with some juice left in the dock.
Just to me it's a lot better coming from the original Transformer.
I can understand some folks who would rather just use dock's power first and then the tablet. But again, as an owner of both and seeing how both work, for me this is a better way
If the dock has no battery but the tab has loads, and you plug the dock in... would it work? If no, then I can see why it doesn't discharge first, if it does then there really isn't any point.
kevinm2k said:
If the dock has no battery but the tab has loads, and you plug the dock in... would it work? If no, then I can see why it doesn't discharge first, if it does then there really isn't any point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it works fine. Had this issue on the original one all the time.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
hi guys,
so when i'm at home i found myself using the prime more and more and often with the dock for writing posts and also for using it as a stand while watching youtube or playing a game with gamepad.
Since the dock empties itself as soon as the Tablet dropped to ~75% i'm a bit concerned. I know that li-po batteries dont like to stay at low voltage/low charge for long times.
So the Tablet is at 80% and the dock is empty. 80% can mean days of medium usage, so the dock will be at 0% for a pretty long time.
Should i prevent that and always charge the dock as soon as it runs out? Would be nice to know how the dock handles voltage and charge. It could also be that it still has plenty reserve charge when it displays 0%..
any thoughts?*
Shouldn't be a problem. The dock is going to use the power of the tablet to power itself.
clouds5 said:
hi guys,
so when i'm at home i found myself using the prime more and more and often with the dock for writing posts and also for using it as a stand while watching youtube or playing a game with gamepad.
Since the dock empties itself as soon as the Tablet dropped to ~75% i'm a bit concerned. I know that li-po batteries dont like to stay at low voltage/low charge for long times.
So the Tablet is at 80% and the dock is empty. 80% can mean days of medium usage, so the dock will be at 0% for a pretty long time.
Should i prevent that and always charge the dock as soon as it runs out? Would be nice to know how the dock handles voltage and charge. It could also be that it still has plenty reserve charge when it displays 0%..
any thoughts?*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't think any of us have had the TF201 long enough to have a dock battery degrade, maybe TF101 owners can advise. but your concern is fundamentally sound. the dock has a lithium ion battery in it like any other. all li-on batteries are prone to having their cells dry out if they spend a lot of time fully discharged. the net effect is that the battery will diminish it's capacity over time.
asus made a good design decision with the TF201 by not having the dock charge the tablet until the tablet depletes to 70% capacity, because li-on batteries also degrade when constantly being held at 100% charge. but imo they should have put in another threshold for the dock battery, say at 25%, where the dock stops charging the tablet until the tablet gets dangerously low. in lieu of this, my personal opinion is that it is wise to give the dock a charge (or disconnect it from the tablet) once it dips below 20%.