[Q] RCA out? - AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II SGH-I777

I know our phones can do HDMI out through an MHL adapter, which I have and it works great, but I would like to know if they can do RCA out, the yellow, red, and white outputs. I want to hook it up to my car's touchscreen headunit which has those inputs, but obviously no HDMI. Do our phones have this capability using the usb or the 3.5 mm jack, like the original Galaxy S's, that I could use? Thanks.

I don't think so... There's a slight tiny possibility the headphone jack can do tvout, but there are no controls for it in Settings on any GSII - it probably isn't working.

Entropy512 said:
I don't think so... There's a slight tiny possibility the headphone jack can do tvout, but there are no controls for it in Settings on any GSII - it probably isn't working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Entropy. Yea since there isn't anything in the settings I figured it wouldn't work. I am going to try that cable anyway and I will report back.

Let us know if it works...I would love to be able to hook up to my 'older' sets and such with my GSII!

Any updates on this? I'm also interested in getting it to work with RCA composite.
Any help would be appreciated

Well I tried plugging my phone into the tv through a 3.5mm to RCA cable, and nothing. But, I also tried it with my Captivate running ICS and still nothing. My SGSII is on ICS as well, so maybe the function just wasn't built in to the software.

I'd also tried this on KK6 with no luck...

Not related to this phone but the iPod Videos had this option I believe. The Classic took the function out.
Fyi for anyone.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk

I can confirm that MHL to HDMI to RCA through a converter does work with our phones. But then I stumbled upon this...it looks promising.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyoZoNA8U24

Related

[Q] Video output on the Fascinate

Greetings Programs!
I currently have a 3.5mm to RCA cable which works for the Samsung Captivate, and it seems that Verizon removed video out support on the Fascinate. I have a rooted Fascinate, and I wanted to know if anyone is working on, or has successfully been get video output working on the device. I am 99% it is possible since I have looked in the 3.5mm jack and I see the video connector.
I was thinking that maybe a ROM based on another Galaxy S device may unlock the feature?
I was reading another thread on this same subject and others also seem to think that we have the same hardware in the jack. I would be willing to pet this feature will be implemented into a ROM as long as its possible, and I find that to be highly likely, as long as it does in fact have the hardware.
I am not a developer nor do I know if the captivate people have a system dump yet or not, but when they do and a ROM is cooked up, it should find its way to us fascinate users.
Heres a Captivate system dump... I am looking through it now to try to find anything useful. forum.xda-developers[DOT]com/showthread.php?t=730226
Any ROM developers here that want to add this to their ROM?
Even though I have no ideal how its supposed to charge the device Samsung says that a usb to hdmi is on its way. I would like a HD solution myself, but the RCA method mentioned here would do good if its a great deal cheaper than the $50 Dollar cable.
jatilq said:
Even though I have no ideal how its supposed to charge the device Samsung says that a usb to hdmi is on its way. I would like a HD solution myself, but the RCA method mentioned here would do good if its a great deal cheaper than the $50 Dollar cable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you read this? I know that a couple of news briefs and blog posts said it was out, but I also heard that a Samsung rep (granted, this was on twitter ...) said that it was an error on their website, and that this particular cable (which I have not found a single real owner of one yet!) wasn't even originally meant for the GALAXY S devices.
SirKronan said:
Where did you read this? I know that a couple of news briefs and blog posts said it was out, but I also heard that a Samsung rep (granted, this was on twitter ...) said that it was an error on their website, and that this particular cable (which I have not found a single real owner of one yet!) wasn't even originally meant for the GALAXY S devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ive seen a few people in other galaxy s variant forums that ordered the cable and couldn't get it to work, Samsung was supposed to fix this with the froyo update, however, I ordered mine from daydeal and the day the order was supposed to ship I got an email from them saying that it had been recalled so they may have pulled the plug on hd out
SirKronan said:
Where did you read this? I know that a couple of news briefs and blog posts said it was out, but I also heard that a Samsung rep (granted, this was on twitter ...) said that it was an error on their website, and that this particular cable (which I have not found a single real owner of one yet!) wasn't even originally meant for the GALAXY S devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do a search for usb to hdmi. You will find a page called dealtime if I remember, that will lead to Samsung saying it doesnt work for the US models, but one is coming.
Well I don't need HDMI output... I am working on a project that needs RCA output.
Hopefully a custom ROM and/or the Froyo update will solve everything.
Check this out. If i had 20 bucks to try it out I would.
http://www.daydeal.com/product.php?productid=45332&cat=5155
From what I was told all you had to do was plug it in and whatever showed up on the phone showed up on the TV.
I also heard that Samsung will officially be supporting this with the release of 2.2 which should be out by the end of October. A rep told me that it will be an app on the phone where you can display one thing on the tv while having another app open on the phone..
EXAMPLE: If you have a tv in your car you can play a movie on the tv, while looking at the navigation on the phone.
PS- I wont believe it, til I see it.
Got that cable for like 9.99
Won't work until someone ports tv out from another galaxy s variant, or we get 2.2.
Any updates on this?i have a fascinate from telus and the head phone jack works but you see it very distord and scrambled..think it is software??
techker said:
Any updates on this?i have a fascinate from telus and the head phone jack works but you see it very distord and scrambled..think it is software??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=963998
I don't know how close the telus and vzw fascinates are but someone is/was working on it.
Telus is essentially the Captivate,look there.
Samsung Fascinate, Verizon
EB01 Superclean 2.4
Kenesis' TransMyst GBKB (EPIIIIIC)
Mob87's Honeycomb Theme
Stock Kernel
tv out
Hey guys, im not a developer but the tv out through the 3.5mm jack works but only get sd quality. Heres how i got mine to work the cheapest way. I used my 3.5 mm jack cable to rca ends(red,yellow,white) cable. These usually come with your digital cameras or portable dvd players. Or get them at the dollar store for a few bucks. You have to pull the jack about 1-3 mm out after plugging it all the way in the headphone jack and then Switch the yellow (video) cord with either the white or red cord. Google it, theres been others with success and cheap. Cheers!
lilazn76 said:
Hey guys, im not a developer but the tv out through the 3.5mm jack works but only get sd quality. Heres how i got mine to work the cheapest way. I used my 3.5 mm jack cable to rca ends(red,yellow,white) cable. These usually come with your digital cameras or portable dvd players. Or get them at the dollar store for a few bucks. You have to pull the jack about 1-3 mm out after plugging it all the way in the headphone jack and then Switch the yellow (video) cord with either the white or red cord. Google it, theres been others with success and cheap. Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you're doing this with the VZW Fascinate? SCH-i500? I don't buy it.
lilazn76 said:
Hey guys, im not a developer but the tv out through the 3.5mm jack works but only get sd quality. Heres how i got mine to work the cheapest way. I used my 3.5 mm jack cable to rca ends(red,yellow,white) cable. These usually come with your digital cameras or portable dvd players. Or get them at the dollar store for a few bucks. You have to pull the jack about 1-3 mm out after plugging it all the way in the headphone jack and then Switch the yellow (video) cord with either the white or red cord. Google it, theres been others with success and cheap. Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, I'm not sure I buy this either. Explain how you get it to work.
I would vomit from laughing so hard if it was that easy hahahahaha
tv out
Im have the telus samsung fascinate. it works but only standard definition. the only setting you have to set is the "tv out" on the phone. "setting" ---> " display" ----> "tv out" switch to on. YOu can laugh all you want but im just trying to tell you that it works. Not all video rca jacks are the same. You have to try a couple. I actually bought one from the dollar store that works. As i said plug in the mini jack to rca like this one
once the mini jack is plugged in the phone, turn on the "tv out" setting in the phone. Then plug the red cord into the video input(yellow) of the tv. you will initially get a scrambled signal on the tv but slowly pull out the mini jack from the phone about 1-3 mm from the base. Its touchy and not perfect by any means but works. Until they come up with the video out on the usb socket then this will have to do. I doubt they will but you never know. cheers!
use this one i ordered it and it works fine
cgi.ebay.com/3-5mm-RCA-TV-Out-AV-Cable-Samsung-i500-Fascinate-/270727407846?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item3f089c68e6
lilazn76 said:
Im have the telus samsung fascinate. it works but only standard definition. the only setting you have to set is the "tv out" on the phone. "setting" ---> " display" ----> "tv out" switch to on. YOu can laugh all you want but im just trying to tell you that it works. Not all video rca jacks are the same. You have to try a couple. I actually bought one from the dollar store that works. As i said plug in the mini jack to rca like this one
once the mini jack is plugged in the phone, turn on the "tv out" setting in the phone. Then plug the red cord into the video input(yellow) of the tv. you will initially get a scrambled signal on the tv but slowly pull out the mini jack from the phone about 1-3 mm from the base. Its touchy and not perfect by any means but works. Until they come up with the video out on the usb socket then this will have to do. I doubt they will but you never know. cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfourtunately, the Verizon Fascinate does not have the TV-Out option in the settings, and has never had one in the first place.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App

Video Out

Hey. I was wondering how the TV out works on the Vibrant. My last phone was a ipohne 3g and I used a programs called TV out to connect it to my car audio system. With that setup I was able to watch Slingplayer through the car audio display. When I check the TV out box on the Vibrant, I don't get video (just audio). I was told that video can be achieved through the 3.5mm headphone jack. I don't see how this is possible and I don't believe the mini usb is capable of audio/video. Can someone confirm this? Is there a way to utilize the slingplayer the same way as I did with the iphone?
Thanks in advance,
ScottZ0
You have to switch red with yellow or some sh¡t like that
V5 custom vibrant
ScottZ0 said:
Hey. I was wondering how the TV out works on the Vibrant. My last phone was a ipohne 3g and I used a programs called TV out to connect it to my car audio system. With that setup I was able to watch Slingplayer through the car audio display. When I check the TV out box on the Vibrant, I don't get video (just audio). I was told that video can be achieved through the 3.5mm headphone jack. I don't see how this is possible and I don't believe the mini usb is capable of audio/video. Can someone confirm this? Is there a way to utilize the slingplayer the same way as I did with the iphone?
Thanks in advance,
ScottZ0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I recently received my 3.5mm to rca plug from amazon for about $3 shipping included. Do you have the specific plug? I'm assuming you do since you said you used to do it with your iphone. Connect only 2 of the 3 rca plugs to the tv. Connect the white male plug for audio to the white female port and then connect the red male plug to the yellow female port for video (YES, YOU HEARD RIGHT. FOR SOME REASON THE RED MALE PLUG WORKS AS VIDEO INSTEAD OF AUDIO). Make sure your tv's input is set to VIDEO 1 or VIDEO 2 etc. Then make sure to check the tv out check box.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA APP
www.goteamfriday.com
The Vibrant's pretty picky about the cables. The correct cable is a standard Red/White/Yellow composite cable, but the wiring is non-standard, so you may have to switch the red and yellow connectors. Also, make sure the plug is plugged ALL THE WAY into the 3.5mm jack on the phone - it's easy to leave out one click. Even still, I've run into a couple cables that would not work no matter what I did (I think this is a grounding issue.)
I recommend the $3 cable from amazon. Took about 3 days for me to receive the cable. The cable was located in New Jersey and I live in Maryland.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA APP
www.goteamfriday.com
Motorola oem cable on ebay for about 5 bucks works correctly, yellow for video and red/white for audio.
ScottZ0 said:
Hey. I was wondering how the TV out works on the Vibrant. My last phone was a ipohne 3g and I used a programs called TV out to connect it to my car audio system. With that setup I was able to watch Slingplayer through the car audio display. When I check the TV out box on the Vibrant, I don't get video (just audio). I was told that video can be achieved through the 3.5mm headphone jack. I don't see how this is possible and I don't believe the mini usb is capable of audio/video. Can someone confirm this? Is there a way to utilize the slingplayer the same way as I did with the iphone?
Thanks in advance,
ScottZ0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey Scott,
Hope all is well with you - I too have a Vibrant - did you get the cabling figured out? What worked. Look forward to your reply. Thanks in advance - cheers

Stereo Dock

I have searched without any luck for a stereo dock that doesnt use the headphone jack. I have a logitech for my old iphone that u just set the phone in it and use the remote. Has anyone come across one for the galaxy s2 yet?
I believe there's one made by Philips which is available at Best Buy.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Philips...87&skuId=3044077&st=philips android&cp=1&lp=3
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Philips...93&skuId=3021696&st=philips android&cp=1&lp=4
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Philips...28&skuId=3044095&st=philips android&cp=1&lp=5
thanks,
I found this one too AS851 (Cant link yet). Comes with a remote and is 30 watts. They say you cant stream music thru the micro usb, but then how does the unit send audio and video to a HDMI cable, so I would think its possible. shrug
runtohell121 said:
I believe there's one made by Philips which is available at Best Buy.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Philips...87&skuId=3044077&st=philips android&cp=1&lp=3
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Philips...93&skuId=3021696&st=philips android&cp=1&lp=4
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Philips...28&skuId=3044095&st=philips android&cp=1&lp=5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of those docks use Bluetooth to stream the audio. From what I know the USB port on the bottom doesn't have the ability to natively send audio out of the pins. I would love to have a simple dock too for this phone that would let audio out without having to jack in on the top of the phone, but it's just not designed that way.
I used to have an ATT "Fuze" (touch pro) - used to have to carry a dongle everywhere with me to plug in headphones. I'm much happier that I don't need a dongle, but it does suck to have to plug in 2 things in the car to get audio and charge at the same time.
You might want to take a look at this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1321491

Tab 2 10.1 audio/video/usb(charge) cable

Hello,
I'll be hooking up my tab in the car and I'm looking for a cable that will charge over USB and provide audio out in one.
I found this guy on Amazon but it only says it works with the original Tab.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0054MV84Q/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&smid=A36WKB83D3HR47
The video out is mirrored so I would just leave that part unplugged.
Does anyone have experience with this or something similar with the Tab 2?
Thanks!
I just ordered one. I'll give it a whirl and report back!
Be interesting to see how you get on, I'm in the process of mounting my P5110 in the car as well. I don't think the video would work anyway, but the audio should...
What bracket are you planning on using if you don't mind me asking?
I actually ended up making my own, a TV mount coupled with a gel case.
TV mount: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0044YMQIW/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00
Gel case: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009L7OMVG/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00
With a little modification, it worked out quite well.
I like this setup because I can easily reach the tablet to control Pandora, Stitcher, Maps, etc, and still swing it over for a passenger to watch Netflix or browse the web. If I can get this cord to work, I'll be set!
More pictures here:
http://imgur.com/a/az78q
Has anyone had success with this on 10.1?
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
Got the cable in the mail today. I hooked it up and everything works as expected.
I can't speak for the video plug, but the audio works perfectly and the usb charges as expected. I couldn't be happier!
elypsar said:
Got the cable in the mail today. I hooked it up and everything works as expected.
I can't speak for the video plug, but the audio works perfectly and the usb charges as expected. I couldn't be happier!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very nice setup, and with the minimum of cables hanging out of the Tab.
I must order the same cable now that you confirmed that it works, and post a pic once I have it mounted in my car.
Currently my trusty i9000 handles all my in car android needs with Navigon etc.. time to upgrade.
I still need a way to attach the cable to the mount without it looking like junk, but since it splits close to the usb/av end of the cable, this shouldn't be too hard.
Definitely post some pics once you have yours set up.
Since this is mainly going to stay in the car, I also set up Tasker to perform a few tasks when the device gets power.
On power connect:
- Turn screen on (I believe this happens anyway though)
- Set brightness to auto
- Set screen timeout to 24hrs (There is also a function to keep the screen from turning off, but it still dims the screen close to the devices set timeout, which I find annoying)
- Play audio (if paused)
On power disconnect:
- Pause audio
- Set screen timeout to 2min
- Lock screen
Just some food for thought.
Looks great!
Sent from my SCH-I915 using xda premium
So we can get audio out thru the 30-pin connector? hows the sound quality vs. the headphone jack? i assume since it works for the 10.1 tab 2 it should work on the 7.0, would love for a nice single connection setup like that when I work out a way to do an in-dash setup once i figure out a way to relocate the AC controls.
edit: 500th post :highfive:
has anyone got this working on a galaxy tab 2 7.0 (p3110 pref)
ive bought 2 diffrent cables and neither has routed audio out via dock,
is there something i should be doing within android to enable dock mode or route audio out via the connector or will it do that automatically?
i really need audio to come out via the dock connector so i can charge and play audio out of the one cable.
daniel644 said:
So we can get audio out thru the 30-pin connector? hows the sound quality vs. the headphone jack? i assume since it works for the 10.1 tab 2 it should work on the 7.0, would love for a nice single connection setup like that when I work out a way to do an in-dash setup once i figure out a way to relocate the AC controls.
edit: 500th post :highfive:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The audio on the 30 pin is the same audio on the headphone jack....... its audio.
The only difference between the 10 and the 7 is that the 7 has no video on the 30 pin
I bought a similar cable as yours But I cant get it to work the audio wont out through the cable only on the device. Any setting that I should do? Could you please show me your set up? Thanks you.
elypsar said:
Got the cable in the mail today. I hooked it up and everything works as expected.
I can't speak for the video plug, but the audio works perfectly and the usb charges as expected. I couldn't be happier!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you happen to know someone with the tab 2 7.0 that you can test that cable with? I'm thinking about ordering one but would like confirmation that it works. Not interested in video, just audio and charging.
the_buzz_man
Sent from my GT-P3113 using xda premium
the_buzz_man said:
Do you happen to know someone with the tab 2 7.0 that you can test that cable with? I'm thinking about ordering one but would like confirmation that it works. Not interested in video, just audio and charging.
the_buzz_man
Sent from my GT-P3113 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it works on the p-51xx it will work the same on the P31xx except no video on 31xx 2.7.0 tabs
the pinouts are exactly the same.
So, will this cable bring video out from p5100?
Did anybody tried it on p5100?
Thanks
Sent from my GT-P5100 using xda app-developers app
ibrahimnie said:
So, will this cable bring video out from p5100?
Did anybody tried it on p5100?
Thanks
Sent from my GT-P5100 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CHeck the Samsung accessories page for the adapter, if it says its compatible it is, if its doesn't list your model its not.
Just curious here...I've been long considering taking my Galaxy Tab 2 7 inch apart and somehow fashioning a Double Din head unit out of it. But I'm a little skeptical now because:
If I'm reading this right, you guys are saying that only audio comes out of the USB connector thing? But that doesn't make sense to me because why wouldn't the audio sound, and video sound be handled the same way? It just seems like to me they would be essentially the same thing, but then again I'm not very tech on the software side so idk
mswilson2007 said:
Just curious here...I've been long considering taking my Galaxy Tab 2 7 inch apart and somehow fashioning a Double Din head unit out of it. But I'm a little skeptical now because:
If I'm reading this right, you guys are saying that only audio comes out of the USB connector thing? But that doesn't make sense to me because why wouldn't the audio sound, and video sound be handled the same way? It just seems like to me they would be essentially the same thing, but then again I'm not very tech on the software side so idk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I gather, your audio in whatever form will be carried through the 30-pin connection on the GTab7.0. The only difference in the pin connector from the GTab10.1 and GTab7.0 is that Samsung, in their infinite wisdom, omitted the video pin on the GTab7.0.

Samsung smart dock audio via hdmi

Hi,
I got my note 3 the other week and just got the samsung smart dock today.
The note 3 is brilliant so far and as far Im aware it is MHL 2.0 compliant.
I plugged in the smart dock last night into my reciever and I got the screen mirrored onto my tv however I am getting no sound at all
However If I plug the hdmi cable into my TVs hdmi input I get both video and sound (the problem being that my tv has an issue with DT, DTS HD etc. All I can do is pass a dolby digital signal to my reciever via optical cable.
The reciever works perfectly fine for HDMI out from my htpc at the mometn (and to confirm it wasnt the settings on the reciever I ever plugged the dock into the same input as the HTPC (replaced it temporarily) Still no sound.
Does anyone have any idea why the audio works through my tv and not the reciever? (my reciever is a denon 1910, my tv is a Samsung B650) As far Im aware audio over hdmi is a standard and if anything the recoever should be able to work better as it can decode more formats.
The other thing I noticed was that I am getting 1080p at 30hz, does this make the smart dock only MHL1.0 compliant?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
go to settings / accessory and then either click or unclick the audio out mode. then try.
HOGWILD said:
go to settings / accessory and then either click or unclick the audio out mode. then try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the fast responce. This does tie into what I have read elsewhere unfortunately it didnt seem to have an impact for me I have tried both ticked and unticked. my reciever still gets no audio.
(My TV only recieves audio if it is unticked)
In the same place there is an option for HDMI surround or stereo, have you tried changing that around?
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 4
RavenY2K3 said:
In the same place there is an option for HDMI surround or stereo, have you tried changing that around?
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately yes. Maybe I havent tried all combinations of the 2 options though.
I think I tried unticked stereo, surround unticked and surround ticked. I can try messing with these again tonight to see if it has any affect.
Is there any reason these settings would need changing for plugging into a reciever vs plugging into my tv directly? I would have thought if it works for one it should work for the other.
Thanks again for the help
no luck, tried all combinations of both of those settings. no sound at all coming out of my reciever
Rbentley100 said:
Hi,
I got my note 3 the other week and just got the samsung smart dock today.
The note 3 is brilliant so far and as far Im aware it is MHL 2.0 compliant.
I plugged in the smart dock last night into my reciever and I got the screen mirrored onto my tv however I am getting no sound at all
However If I plug the hdmi cable into my TVs hdmi input I get both video and sound (the problem being that my tv has an issue with DT, DTS HD etc. All I can do is pass a dolby digital signal to my reciever via optical cable.
The reciever works perfectly fine for HDMI out from my htpc at the mometn (and to confirm it wasnt the settings on the reciever I ever plugged the dock into the same input as the HTPC (replaced it temporarily) Still no sound.
Does anyone have any idea why the audio works through my tv and not the reciever? (my reciever is a denon 1910, my tv is a Samsung B650) As far Im aware audio over hdmi is a standard and if anything the recoever should be able to work better as it can decode more formats.
The other thing I noticed was that I am getting 1080p at 30hz, does this make the smart dock only MHL1.0 compliant?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not trying to high jack your thread but what smart dock you are talking about ? it is the same that is available for note ?
vikramdhani said:
Not trying to high jack your thread but what smart dock you are talking about ? it is the same that is available for note ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, thought I had already replied to this. Yes, this is just the note 2 dock. as I assumed it is just using th MHL standard I believe the note 3 should be just as compatable as the Note 2
Note 3 smart dock
The note 2 smart dock worked with my note 3 with sound? See here:
youtube.com/watch?v=lWN43pnkg0s
This is a long shot but on your note 3, go to settings>general>accessory>check off "Audio output mode" (Use external speakers when device is docked).
See if that works?
---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:23 PM ----------
Also, I know this is silly but try unlpugging the smart dock power source and then replugging it in the back of the dock. Someone had issues where reconnecting the power source on back of the dock helped resolve some recognition issue with the usb. Long shot but worth a try.

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