http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57373634-94/putting-the-transformer-prime-in-perspective/
In other words, it's not an issue with the device. Asus thinks it's fine. So it must be an issue with its owners. While he has a "manager" title, Gary must be further up the food chain than it would seem if he's granting interviews to national publications; especially with litigation pending.
No mentioning of bleeding, dead pixels, bright spots
"CNET: You say "the normal user [Wi-Fi] experience" is not adversely impacted by the unibody design. How exactly do you define the "normal user experience"?
GK: Normal user experience is that [the users are] using their tablet, streaming Netflix, or surfing the Web or other activities, and the tablet works. It does not matter if the maximum throughput is 36Mbps or 32Mbps as indicated by a benchmark program. If the user is not impacted and does not know if the tablet is 10 percent slower at 20 feet from their router, then I think the actual user experience is what matters the most."
In the end, Asus is happy with Prime's WIFI performance. So, if you travel as often as I do for work... goodluck being happy with your Prime's WIFI performance.
"But what about GPS? GPS on a tablet is obviously important to certain individuals, but since less than one percent have returned their Primes because of GPS problems, it must either prove, as the evidence supports, that the problem isn't that widespread or that most people just don't care.l"
I agree, most don't care about GPS. I doubt it made much difference in sales either...
However, the #s are skewed considering it didn't factor those who lost all trust in Asus, or simply are scared of RMA. This also ignores "returns" to retail vendors....
"We took the only step possible in this case and removed GPS from the official specifications shortly after the unit went on sale. We apologized for this inconvenience and offered to assist users who wanted to return the unit after the announcement.
"
I haven't called their customer service in a while.. but.. does this mean they are now offering FULL refund (including shipping)?? And if so, since when did they start this program??
Ill commend you on this one. I ran out of thanks. Confirmed interview on Cnet. Great interview of Gary Key. He told it like it is. Plus more official confirmation that less than 1% of primes. Plus o want to rub this in Shinzz face. As proof its said firmwares will continue to come out to improve GPS although removed from spec. Overall a great interview on the Prime. We have official numbers from an official tech site. Prime is a success so far. The demand greatly exceeded their expectations and majority of users happy with it. Just like the polls here showed. No disputing anything now. Gary addressed the issues in interview. Then he also gave hard number statistics on return rate for each issue and overall.
SO PRIME IS ACTUALLY DOING VERY WELL RIGHT NOW. Great news to hear. Glad op linked this thread. Issues people experienced here in xda no where near as extensive as people thought...lmfao. take that Barry..lmfao. I love it.
---------- Post added at 08:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 PM ----------
BarryH_GEG said:
In other words, it's not an issue with the device. Asus thinks it's fine. So it must be an issue with its owners. While he has a "manager" title, Gary must be further up the food chain than it would seem if he's granting interviews to national publications; especially with litigation pending.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahahahahahaha....lmfao whatcha got to say now buddy...like i said before, the numbers don't lie. Less than 1% failure/return rate and issues are not widespread at all. At least they are addressing the issues.
demandarin said:
Ill commend you on this one. I ran out of thanks. Confirmed interview on Cnet. Great interview of Gary Key. He told it like it is. Plus more official confirmation that less than 1% of primes. Plus o want to rub this in Shinzz face. As proof its said firmwares will continue to come out to improve GPS although removed from spec. Overall a great interview on the Prime. We have official numbers from an official tech site. Prime is a success so far. The demand greatly exceeded their expectations and majority of users happy with it. Just like the polls here showed. No disputing anything now. Gary addressed the issues in interview. Then he also gave hard number statistics on return rate for each issue and overall.
SO PRIME IS ACTUALLY DOING VERY WELL RIGHT NOW. Great news to hear. Glad op linked this thread. Issues people experienced here in xda no where near as extensive as people thought...lmfao. take that Barry..lmfao. I love it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Even with the removal of GPS from the feature specifications, we are still working on aGPS optimizations with firmware updates that allow automatic downloading of LTO (Long Term Orbits) information. This can improve GPS lock speed and allow a certain level of functionality from the unit."
aGPS... not as GPS. I really don't care about aGPS. So.. NO.. you aren't seeing GPS firmware update.. but aGPS updates.
I will make sure to bookmark this link..expect me to be bringing it up in any and all debates doubting the Prime. Numbers are numbers. No one here is a statistics genius to doubt these numbers. Like I said before, xda is a grain of sand compared to world wide sales. Plus polls here easily reflect Gary statements.
HATE TO SAY IT BUT......I TOLD YA SO
---------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------
shinzz said:
"Even with the removal of GPS from the feature specifications, we are still working on aGPS optimizations with firmware updates that allow automatic downloading of LTO (Long Term Orbits) information. This can improve GPS lock speed and allow a certain level of functionality from the unit."
aGPS... not as GPS. I really don't care about aGPS. So.. NO.. you aren't seeing GPS firmware update.. but aGPS updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agps, GPS. Tomato tomatoes...whatever...GPS updates..lol
ALSO BARRY, the source was more relevant n important than you thought straight from the horses mouth I tell ya...lmfao
demandarin said:
I will make sure to bookmark this link..expect me to be bringing it up in any and all debates doubting the Prime. Numbers are numbers. No one here is a statistics genius to doubt these numbers. Like I said before, xda is a grain of sand compared to world wide sales. Plus polls here easily reflect Gary statements.
HATE TO SAY IT BUT......I TOLD YA SO
---------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------
Agps, GPS. Tomato tomatoes...whatever...GPS updates..lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it isn't Tomato tomatoes. There's a big difference in aGPS and GPS. Asus launched and advertised PRIME as GPS that's able to navigate.
Also, when Asus releases (if they do) #s with "returns" to retail vendors (because many.. if they were in their return window.. would opt to return to retail vendor instead of RMA) & the overall sale figure... I'll give them more credit.
Also, here's a brief explanation of LTO: http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/tb/LTO-TB100-R.pdf
Basically.. Asus is offering FIRMWARE update to tinker with GPSconfig (that we were able to do in HC & before the patch that basically turned GPS into aGPS).. all you need to do is go online, and collect the data every other day.
Shoot, that article is way too much kool-aide for demandarin to handle, slow down man....you got the whole weekend ahead of you.
Thanks for the link. Nice read.
Quotes from Gary..
We discovered that due to the all-aluminum unibody design structure, the GPS performance was not satisfactory for all users, especially those wanting to use the device as a true GPS and not in aGPS mode. We took the only step possible in this case and removed GPS from the official specifications shortly after the unit went on sale. We apologized for this inconvenience and offered to assist users who wanted to return the unit after the announcement.
Basically saying GPS will never function as a "true GPS" because of its aluminum backplate" All the more reason to MOD it. I have and now it works 100%. Others that do not want to MOD will be SOL.
"The second area of concern with users is the performance of the unit with Wi-Fi and BT enabled at the same time. For a very small minority of users, this combination resulted in signal dropouts or severely degraded wireless performance. We are still investigating the root cause of this problem with returned units, but it appears to be a random manufacturing process issue with properly attaching an antenna"
Hmmmm. This gets me thinking. My prime is moded and i have the antenna running out of the tablet and I still have the Bluetooth/WIFI fallout issue. I thought Broadcom chipset uses same antenna for Wifi / BT. Seems like he is saying this is a hardware issue that is fixed by properly attaching an antenna. Interesting.... My antenna is external and I still have problem.
I love my prime and besides the GPS I have NEVER had an issue. Guess I'm just a fan boy.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
micaman said:
Shoot, that article is way too much kool-aide for demandarin to handle, slow down man....you got the whole weekend ahead of you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You right...ill let it simmer in over the holiday weekend. I think they know the deal now. I love what that senior editor said at the end, Transformer Prime, despite the small number of reported issues, IS AN EXCELLENT TABLET. He also said some stuff about GPS I could repeat but I won't go there, YET...lol. I'm sure others will catch what he said n bring it to light. With this article I'm fully loaded and my trigger finger itching very badly. If I take off the safety it'll be a massacre in here. I don't want to see them go out like that. Ill be the bigger man n let them think on this one. Lovin it. I got infinite ammo with this one. Put all rumors or whatever to rest. MAY THE RUMORS R.I.P.
There's a lot to that interview.
I'm upset at the GPS fiasco but I got mine working with little tricks here and there however I would like to have a perm fix to get it working right without having to put my phone on the corner. *IF* anyone in the Houston area has opened their Prime and wouldn't mind opening mine, PM me! would like to test a few other things out.
Short of opening the damn thing or slapping a phone or paperclip over the corner, the only thing we can do is wait for Asus to come up with something. I sent Gary the link to the GPS working with phone thread in hopes maybe a simple addition to the Prime's internals or something would solve (or help solve) the GPS issue. I have 0 Wifi issue or known issue(s). Everything loads in good speed and streams well. 25 or 2.5, do you really notice a difference in Netflix? I currently have only a 4G connection (Clear for ya) where I am. Haven't gone with Comcast (uggg...) or DirectTv/Dish to get my internet connection and everything has been well. We're too involved in the speed where we should be more involved to does it work. I understand there are some that doesn't get any signal where they should and that's another issue Asus has to address but for now, for the most of us (even for those not on this board), it seems to be working just fine/satisfactory.
If we were to pick apart everything we have and want it "perfect", we're going to be arguing all day back and forth from Toyota's auto-accelerating pedal to Mercedes bio-degradable wiring harness to BMW's self-destructing cooling system to "Everything Mitsubishi makes" as to what to expect and what to do about it.
I got mine. it works 90%. I log in less than 8 hours a week on my laptop where it was more of a 24/7 thing for me. When I am on the go, I don't think about packing the laptop anymore; I just grab the Prime and go (sometimes with the keyboard and sometimes w.o) knowing 95% of the things I need/want to do is available.
Nothing is perfect but at least Asus has someone supporting us here. Can't say much for many manufactures out there; some wait for the lawsuit to go front page before doing anything about it.
While this "interview" is heavily weighted in GK's (ASUS's) favour ... (I suspect a good script writeup here), i do respect Garys input on the forums.
I cant remember EVER having a senior member of a company helping with queries etc on any forum i've ever been on before, and i'm very glad to see he's still here despite some of the witch hunt type threads and responses.
There have been teething probs with the prime and i think they are pretty much ironed out now (bar the GPS ...), firmware issues are easily sorted, and people shouldnt be so quick to join a witch hunt, fixes usually come quickly.
Anyway ... I'm a frustraited customer in the UK thats had to wait since december for a prime, I had a champagne but the keyboard dock was faulty, so still waiting on the replacement to come, My only gripe is the availability .. Pre-orders should give enough warning on how many to supply, IMO waiting over a month after launch isnt acceptible to still be waiting, i really hope asus learn from this.
It was a good bit of "Official Info" but I am concerend on a few points:
Gary says:
GK: Normal user experience is that [the users are] using their tablet, streaming Netflix, or surfing the Web or other activities, and the tablet works. It does not matter if the maximum throughput is 36Mbps or 32Mbps as indicated by a benchmark program. If the user is not impacted and does not know if the tablet is 10 percent slower at 20 feet from their router, then I think the actual user experience is what matters the most.
My experienece IS decent, and i agree, that is indeed what counts most, but 36 Mbps or 34 Mbps? I would give my left.. er arm for those kind of numbers. I see HALF thos on a brand spanking new Cisco E4200, tuned every which way from Sunday for the Prime, and my numbers don't drop 10% at distance, they drop 90%... Anyway, just sayin... those numbers ar way ambitious, for me anyway.
The other concern was he outright said: NO new hardware revision. Which is fine. And preferable in terms of supporting whats out there with less confusion. However it DOES open the point up that GARY'S TEAM MEMBER another SUPPORT MANAGER who I will be kind enough not to name, told me exactly the opposite, and specifically that the C1 he tested and sent me had different, revised hardware. Pisses me off to be lied to, no matter WHO is doing it. As I have often said, My Prime experience has beem mostly a positive one, I just sense BS from time to time. If Gary is telling the truth, then his organization is not. How is a person suppossed to feel good when that happens?
BTW, Same "SUPPORT MANAGER" who told me all about my new hardware revision? Said the C1 replacement I was getting would get GPS reception "as good as your TF101 ever did" I was so freaking happy to hear THAT! Too bad it never happenned. Not even in the same class. Sigh...
Final thought: article says this below the pic of location settings: "GPS works well when Wi-Fi can be used to augment its performance." It does? Not that I have ever seen. I think they menat LOCATION aware apps work BETTER when NOT using GPS but other means, cause GPS doesn't see a single satellite with aGPS info in my unit. I need to be OUTSIDE. And anytime I have seen sats it's ONLY with no wifi, out in the car away from home. sigh...
So while I would love to say I got a great feeling form all this "Official" data, I don't feel any better, or worse.... more of the same, sigh...
---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 PM ----------
Danny-B- said:
Anyway ... I'm a frustraited customer in the UK thats had to wait since december for a prime, I had a champagne but the keyboard dock was faulty, so still waiting on the replacement to come, My only gripe is the availability .. Pre-orders should give enough warning on how many to supply, IMO waiting over a month after launch isnt acceptible to still be waiting, i really hope asus learn from this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess all the bad docks in the UK didn't add up to much "in percentages" but I personally saw a lot of reports. A shame really, that you had to buy as a pair/return as a pair, and couldn't keep the tablet at least. Hope you get your new baby fast.. Supply is still very constrained to my eye... Amazon in particular, something up with Asus/Amazon... I wonder what?
Its like he said in the interview, the demand for prime greatly exceeded their expectations. Meaning they didn't produce enough units to meet the high demand of the most prized Android tablet. So he said they are going tto aggressively ramp up production to meet demand. All makes sense as anyplace that carries prime is always sold out so fast. Best part of it all, to me, was the confirmation that Prime was not being replaced or discontinued and that they firmly believe in the high quality of Prime. So worries of it not being supported on long run was basically shot down by this interview. So many bits n pieces I'd love to bring up. Ill wait though. I see it scared away some people..lol
demandarin said:
Hahahahahahaha....lmfao whatcha got to say now buddy...like i said before, the numbers don't lie. Less than 1% failure/return rate and issues are not widespread at all. At least they are addressing the issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "glass half full" people will see this as validation. The "glass half empty" people will see it as propaganda. And this thread will once again be run up to God knows how many pages and stay on the front page for days/weeks. A devices success (or failure) isn't measured in weeks. Let's see how everyone feels a couple of months from now when Asus and other manufacturers have next-gen tablets out for a direct (not theoretical) comparison of both performance and quality. The great thing about forums is that individual posts are archived. So we'll be able to go back and see who was right and who was wrong as we've all proffered our speculations.
P.S. – A 1% failure rate is industry leading and difficult for even premium manufacturers like Sony and Samsung to achieve and maintain. Does this forum feel “industry leading” to you? Does it even feel like other tablet forums? And, if not, why do you think that is?
Knife cuts both ways
"The second area of concern with users is the performance of the unit with Wi-Fi and BT enabled at the same time. For a very small minority of users, this combination resulted in signal dropouts or severely degraded wireless performance. We are still investigating the root cause of this problem with returned units, but it appears to be a random manufacturing process issue with properly attaching an antenna"
So, does this mean that the Pogo pins don't attache well/properly or does it reference the Gap that Erusman found on the antenna PCB? Either way, it's open ended, since they are still out there.
Oh... and as I recall, all the reviewers BEFORE Prime shipped were stating the same conclusion: It's a great a tablet. Duh.
BarryH_GEG said:
P.S. – A 1% failure rate is industry leading and difficult for even premium manufacturers like Sony and Samsung to achieve and maintain. Does this forum feel “industry leading” to you? Does it even feel like other tablet forums? And, if not, why do you think that is?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point. Ill have to get back @ you on that one. Been sipping on grandpa's cough medicine(you should know what that saying means)..lol.
I'm a nice guy. I know all of this is hard for you to swallow. Ill show good sportsmanship. Just like a football or basketball game. I'm blowing you out in the score now. If I continue, it'll only make me look bad and arrogant..lol and unnecessary. I'm interested in seeing what others have to say also once they catch wind of this. Which won't take long.
But on one note, Asus products n laptops are known as the most reliable or break down the least. I remember seeing several articles n stats proving that. Can it be actually so hard to believe the issues here not so widespread as we thought? Therefore following that less than 1% failure rate. No one is perfect. We all wrong sometimes. Just cave in now, Barry. Lol. Ill accept the defeat graciously. Never too late to switch. Switch sides now n ill forget all the previous stuff you said
Ah man..all this too funny. I love this forum. Including the trolls n haters.
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As SmartAs$Phone has pointed out, I wonder how Gary came up with:
CNET: You say "the normal user [Wi-Fi] experience" is not adversely impacted by the unibody design. How exactly do you define the "normal user experience"?
GK: Normal user experience is that [the users are] using their tablet, streaming Netflix, or surfing the Web or other activities, and the tablet works. It does not matter if the maximum throughput is 36Mbps or 32Mbps as indicated by a benchmark program. If the user is not impacted and does not know if the tablet is 10 percent slower at 20 feet from their router, then I think the actual user experience is what matters the most."
Related
Alright. The forums are filled with speculation, rumours, facts and a lot of first-adopters under caffeine addiction and patience measurable by a microscope.
For many of you this might be a first 'early adoption' attempt. I've been in a few (most recently with Galaxy Nexus just a month ago), so let me just point out a few things that makes this Prime fiasco not sound like a fiasco at all.
There is no such thing as a world wide launch, or even a US/Europe launch, for a flagship device that does not have supply issues. Every flagship device released has supply issues. We live in times where the demand for flagship devices far outweigh the ability to manufacture. This is why Apple (sometimes) starts production much earlier than others since their demand is -even higher- than any device released by Asus or Samsung. But even they get hit by supply issues and some stores or countries don't get the device for months, if at all. Thus, trust me when I say this, a high demand and problematic supply is a good sign. If you are an early adopter of something that does not have a high demand and supply problems, the product might not be as good as you hope.
If they were to manufacture quicker then the price would go up. There are human resources behind product manufacturing, which are limited. And not only is it limited by human resources, but also by supply of parts from partners that end up in the final device. If you had a choice of 'waiting longer' for a cleaner launch (so they could manufacture more devices by the time of launch) or having Asus release products a little sooner to satisfy early adopter interest, we all know we would rather get it sooner rather than later, even if some of us have to wait longer (we are selfish like that). So it is better that at least some of us, who pre-ordered very early and got lucky with the seller, will get the device this month instead of delayed launch in January or later.
Another reason why companies release products sooner is because it is a race. While they can manufacture only certain amount, if they held back a release to have more devices during launch, they would be a month or even more closer to the time when the device becomes outdated. This is especially true with Android tablets that simply do not carry the word of mouth of an iPad or a content ecosystem of Kindle Fire. Android tablets are a niche device which competes in market dominated not by software, but by specs. It is more beneficial for Asus to get the product out quicker from sales standpoint, even if they are unable to manufacture to meet the early demand.
This issue seems huge and bad for you. But to everyone outside the circle, no one is even aware. You simply think this is the worst launch in the history of tech launches, when in fact this type of launch is more common than the changing of socks. Asus and every other company goes through couple of launches like that every year. This here is nothing special, there's no point trying to make it sound like it is. The reason why tech portals are not full of huge discussions about Asus and Transformer Prime launch is because it is not at all a major issue in tech world.
And companies know this. Both sellers and manufacturers know about the impatience of early adopters who place pre-orders often even before they know what the device is about. Reality is that early adopters are a very small percentage of the people who end up buying the product. Upsetting early adopters at a time when the product is not even widely advertised does not damage Asus sales. They are used to it and in fact so is every other company.
Tech problems are also common with devices. In fact I don't know a flagship device that does not come with a quirk or two. Galaxy Nexus smartphone launch involved the phone not working properly on 2G networks which was a major, major issue. A hardware manufacturing flaw. But it was fixed with a software update so it became a non-issue. You can add Apple's Antennagates and battery issues to this pile too. Small issues get blown out of proportion because of user expectation after paying a lot of money. Companies do their best to fix these problems. If Prime is affected by weaker WiFi signal, well, it simply is not perfect. It is also not as fast in certain aspects compared to iPad 2, so what? If you are really disappointed you should wait for something better, but expecting a device to be flawless is silly since it is just not going to happen.
The reason why customer support does not respond to you with all the details in the world is because the customer support does not know. Product launch and manufacturing is something that involves thousands of people and hundreds of companies. Sellers do their best to get their orders, Asus does their best to meet the demand. And every day you ask about the product, that customer support person has gone through many just like you before you contact them. You, an early adopter, who keeps bombing the customer support every day, are just a drop in the pond. You have no idea how low priority it is for any company to deal with your epic problem that is really just about you getting a product few weeks early.
If you want to cancel your pre-order, go ahead and do it. But do not think that any seller or Asus is affected by your canceling. They will sell their items regardless. Do not cancel the pre-order for wrong reasons. If you really want another device or wait for another device, do it. But don't cancel a pre-order just out of bitterness, you'll regret it a month down the road.
I know that we are all frustrated since we want the product right now. Some of us have already paid the full price, some of us have paid even more (I'm paying 20% extra for customs fees from the product and courier shipping). But this is just a product. Unless your friend is a freak of nature like you are about product launches, you will still get a shiny Transformer Prime before your friends and family to show off and feel great about.
I, for one, am glad to have ordered Prime. I will get it and so will you. Just be a little more patient.
holy wall of text, tldr
can u repeat that i wast really paying attention.......... its the 12th lets hope there was some truth
blaziner18 said:
holy wall of text, tldr
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL!!! I was thinking the same thing!
I actually did read it, and having been through such product launches before (namely, the TF101), I definitely agree.
Everything kristovaher said was right, especially about all these whiners that cancelled their pre-orders because they don't have any patience. So all those above me that are trying to sound cool at the expense of an intelligent, truthful response to all the 'drama', you're not cool. You're not funny.
ask a verizon customer waiting for the Gnex if this is a bad launch !
hbk19 said:
I actually did read it, and having been through such product launches before (namely, the TF101), I definitely agree.
Everything kristovaher said was right, especially about all these whiners that cancelled their pre-orders because they don't have any patience. So all those above me that are trying to sound cool at the expense of an intelligent, truthful response to all the 'drama', you're not cool. You're not funny.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and your not cool for caring about peoples whining, i could never imagine giving enough ****s to right/read a sentence about the haters/whiners.
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Thanks for writing that, OP. It's refreshing to see some intelligent and logical posts here. I can see that XDA Developers (unfortunately) deserves its reputation based on some of the posts made in this thread.
ModestMuse23 said:
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Click to collapse
Why do you out yourself as a total dumbass in all publicity?
That is really weird...
I thought those kind of pictures belong to forums were the average user is below 10 years...
irriadin said:
Thanks for writing that, OP. It's refreshing to see some intelligent and logical posts here. I can see that XDA Developers (unfortunately) deserves its reputation based on some of the posts made in this thread.
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What reputation is that? They are generally lauded by the tech media as far as I know. A few kids that post silliness shouldn't warrant a bad reputation. Look at all of the development that happens here. That's where the rep should and does come from, imo.
I read it also. He is right though. This lookin like its going to turn into a flame thread, unfortunately. People just need to chill out. We have exactly one week till release
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
demandarin said:
I read it also. He is right though. This lookin like its going to turn into a flame thread, unfortunately. People just need to chill out. We have exactly one week till release
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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Exactly.
And what is more amusing is that Asus has not -lied- to anybody, yet people act as if they have. They came out with as official as possible release date on 1st of December and no one believed them. They said 12/19, which they universally pushed all to 19 because of higher-than-expected demand for Prime. A lot of people shot it down though for the simple reason of it being later than they would like it to be, even going as far as saying that this 19 didn't even come from Asus.
I can understand frustration if majority of November pre-orders are not covered by Christmas, but today is only 12th of December.
Diamondback2010 said:
Why do you out yourself as a total dumbass in all publicity?
That is really weird...
I thought those kind of pictures belong to forums were the average user is below 10 years...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Internet = Serious Business
It's all over folks, no more joking or having fun on the internet, Diamondback's panties might get in a bunch and call you mean and nasty names.
theres a fire a-comin.... so hide yo keeds, hide yo...
ModestMuse23 said:
The Internet = Serious Business
It's all over folks, no more joking or having fun on the internet, Diamondback's panties might get in a bunch and call you mean and nasty names.
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Click to collapse
Trolls aren't wanted here. Go Away and troll somebody else..
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
Anybody else wish that all Transformer Prime discussion was still limited to those three threads on the TF1 forum? At least there would be some level of moderation, that we do not have at all here yet.
skeptikal said:
What reputation is that? They are generally lauded by the tech media as far as I know. A few kids that post silliness shouldn't warrant a bad reputation. Look at all of the development that happens here. That's where the rep should and does come from, imo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On reddit (and a few other sites) there's a consensus that while there is still a lot of great content & good developers on XDA, there's also a lot of immaturity.
irriadin said:
On reddit (and a few other sites) there's a consensus that while there is still a lot of great content & good developers on XDA, there's also a lot of immaturity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Real reason for this is that majority of devices don't have their own forums, which do exist here. So it brings in non-developers even though the forums name is 'xda developers'.
It's not bad, XDA is still a tremendous resource and the development subforums are a great source of quality information, but general threads are populated with repeat questions and rumour-mongering, as is evident in the case of Prime, a device that not many of us have spent any time with.
I've run product marketing/management in many of my positions. To a large extent, what you covered in your missive is true. Launching a new product successfully is a study in project management. There are thousands of tasks that all have to be orchestrated and there are many dependencies and there are some things can only be done sequentially. There's an axiom in product management: you can have it good, fast, or cheap - pick two. My guess is the CEO of Asus who is somewhat of a cowboy demanded "fast" to beat other competitors to market. That pretty much screws the product management team who is forced to make concessions with their carefully created project plan/timeline and forego the quality of the launch for the sake of speed.
There are quite a few clues that something funky is going on with the launch of the Prime.
1) Clearly the types and quantities of product are lower than originally estimated. The fact that some colors/sizes are available in some places and not others is a clue. And the launch date sliding by weeks very close in means they allowed themselves no cushion to deal with issues that inevitably come up with a product launch. That or they miscalculated which is never a good sign. Amazon, who is really good at selling stuff, didn't randomly take pre-orders without some sort of quantity commitment. Something changed and fairly close to launch. The fact that they pulled the product completely probably means they lost confidence in Asus' commitments; at least for the time being.
2) Until the device is in fairly widespread use we won't know if there are potential h/w or s/w issues. The fact than some reviewer units and early units in Taiwan are having Wi-Fi issues may be early production challenges or a potential design issue. The fact that reviewers with problem units sent them back and got units without issues is both good and bad. The fact Asus knew what the problem was and fixed it means that, at a stage very close to launch, they're finding things that are typically identified much earlier in the process.
3) Asus is smaller compared to its peers. Based on last quarter's financials they generate half the revenue of Acer another Taiwanese tech company. The combination of fewer resources, a demanding CEO, set-in-stone deadlines and working with new technology (Teg3 and ICS) isn't a recipe for quality and timeliness. And being smaller, they get less preferential treatment and pricing from vendors supplying the components they use to assemble their products. And the TF1 wasn't a beacon of quality at launch and the Prime is a much more complex device.
4) There's been a lot of discussion about the complexity of fabricating the Teg3 SoC. Other things like the all metal casing are new too. There may be production or supply issues with components being manufactured by third parties for the Prime that are beyond Asus' control. Regardless, you don't typically set a launch date until all those risks are identified and mitigated.
So, the statement that all product launches are challenging is true - in every industry. Asus said they plan to sell a million tablets in 2012 of which I'm assuming the Prime is the majority. The launch will be quickly forgotten. How well Asus did with the Prime will be judged months from now.
"Pure Speculation" WiFi and Bluetooth are getting a makeover. GPS being Removed.
This is pure speculation and I have no hard facts to back it up but I've always said, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck......it's a duck".
We all know that the Prime is not in any retail stores at this moment and it's debut has not went full swing yet. A couple batches of pre-orders have shipped but that's about it. Some websites now are showing they won't have any in stock until next month.
In my opinion, Asus stopped shipping orders out to retailers due to the WiFi, Bluetooth and GPS problems. Let's face it. This tablet isn't so popular yet that Asus can't keep the orders up. They realized they had to go back to the drawing board and either redesign or replace the antennas used for WiFi and Bluetooth. The next large wave of Primes should be the revised version which will have much better WiFi and Bluetooth performance.
Asus knows that it would cost them a lot less in the beginning if it just kicked it's chop shops into overdrive in order to ship a fully working tablet rather than getting a bunch of returns and a bad name in the process.
Now, when it comes to the GPS, this is more of a conspiracy theory but it makes sense. We all know that Asus removed "GPS" from the spec sheet and the reason they did is because this second revision of the tablet WILL NOT have a GPS chip inside or it will have it's GPS chip disabled. This is much easier and cheaper for them in the long run because they realize it will never work properly or efficiently without a WiFi signal.
Like I said before, this is just a theory but I just can't imagine why this tablet was supposed to be released in full force prior to Christmas and still continues to slowly trickle. Please don't tell me the tablet is so popular and that's the reason it's hard to get your hands on one because the general public doesn't even know about it yet.
If its a theory put it on the thread title.
And write it in capital letters..THEORY...
rubi76 said:
If its a theory put it on the thread title.
And write it in capital letters..THEORY...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 I hate threads with so obviously baited titles. Just wrong.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
rubi76 said:
If its a theory put it on the thread title.
And write it in capital letters..THEORY...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't think of better words to say...thanks given.
OP...please change the title...if you don't know how then ask.
Thread title changed. Didn't mean for it to be a bate and switch which is why I started off by saying......wait for it......"THIS IS PURE SPECULATION".
Anyone could have easily stopped reading and move on at that point.
jrwingate6 said:
Thread title changed. Didn't mean for it to be a bate and switch which is why I started off by saying......wait for it......"THIS IS PURE SPECULATION".
Anyone could have easily stopped reading and move on at that point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the change in title. With that said I've got to say that your piece is well written and an interesting theory...we shall see.
Doesn't google require GPS for any device connected to the market? I don't think they could remove GPS entirely . . .
Deletion please
richaoj said:
Doesn't google require GPS for any device connected to the market? I don't think they could remove GPS entirely . . .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. Bottom of the page...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1428200&page=13
Actually, this tablet is that popular that they more than likely been having trouble keeping up with orders. look how in the beginning alot of peoples orders got cancel because the online retailers didn't get enough units or Asus cut the numbers down sent to particular retailers. probably to make sure there was at least enough to go around to various outlets.
as far as Asus stopping production and completely redisigning, I highly doubt it. As far as Asus knows there's only a GPS issue. that's a problem across the board. the wifi and BT one isn't. seems to only be affecting some users. they already solved the GPS issue by removing it from spec sheets and anyone who sends Prime in, to get fixed for GPS, will have it removed more than likely. people who still have units with GPS will more than likely still receive updates n such for GPS to make the best of it.
demandarin said:
as far as Asus stopping production and completely redisigning, I highly doubt it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you. If they were going to do that they might as well have changed the back cover. Pulling a chip, taking out an antenna, and making some s/w modifications really isn't a big deal in the greater scheme of things. Certainly not as complex or costly as coming up with a different back cover.
The gps issue really need to be nailed down to its root cause, seems to me there are units out there with good gps performance. If the metal backplate is really the problem then we should not see all units with poor results. i just can't believe that the FCC approved this product without verifying the compliance to specs. To me it's probably a bad batch because of poor quality control, the next shipment around the end of the month could hopefully show a significant improvement and an ICS upgrade.
---------- Post added at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ----------
Correction: "we should see all units with poor results"
tedr44 said:
The gps issue really need to be nailed down to its root cause
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5285/asus-eee-pad-transformer-prime-gps-issue-explained
Excellent write up, so the gps was not tested from the beginning and when they did test it, it was conducted with the alum backplate to demonstrate the problem but I kinda wonder why they didn't test it without the backplate which would be a whole lot more convincing imo. It's just too bad that Asus did not learn from the Ipad mistake so we will just have to live with this deficiency since the fix is too costly. Guess I'll just have to keep my phone gadget handy for gps use. Thanks.
>i just can't believe that the FCC approved this product without verifying the compliance to specs
The FCC is concerned with RF-radiating equipment complying with power and spectrum limitations, for interference reasons. The GPS module/antenna is a passive receiver and thus is not tested.
>I kinda wonder why they [Anandtech] didn't test it without the backplate
That would require a complete disassembly--not just removing the back shell, but all the components attached to it. It's not a feasible option.
Note that there was no bluetooth testing, either. I suppose we'll see another mea culpa about it next.
It's not just Anandtech. All of the tech blogs gave the Prime rosy reviews with nary a complaint. I'm surprised that not more criticisms are directed at these sites.
In a sense, I understand their predicament. The Prime was the only next-gen Android tablet coming out during Xmas. It's got quadcore. It's got iPad-like looks. And it's reasonably priced. Nobody wanted to be a Scrooge and give it bad marks.
Hey guys,
I really need to rant a little bit now.
This thread is for everyone creating all those "kill ASUS on facebook/twitter/blog sites" threads.
I really understand your angryness about the initial issues with the Prime, but has anyone of you guys ever thought about that you are doing huge damage to both ASUS and yourself with those hate campaigns?
Best example: "Lets spread information about minor software problems all over the web and its major blog sites"
This is ridicioulus guys... Seriously, ASUS really can't fix for example the serialnumber issue within 3 days...
They need to find out what's wrong first. After that they need to fix the problem. After fixing the testing follows.
All this needs time. And spreading rather unprofessional information all around the web won't speed this up at all.
But now to the main part of my rant: the damage being done to us, the owners of the Prime.
Do you guys really think you are doing anything good with those social attacks?
In fact you are driving many people away from the Prime for reasons which are seriously non-issues.
Lets re-think about the issues and ASUS reactions:
GPS issue: ASUS confirmed, that this might be a hardware problem,
it seems they are starting a bonus program for the ones not happy with the GPS (either 6 more months of warranty or a full refund)
This is actually really embarassing for them, but I couldn't think of any better method to solve this issue
(we are talking about realistic methods here, giving you a free TF700 is not realistic)
The Wifi issue: Well actually we do not know much about this.
ASUS told us it's not a hardware issue, rather an issue of specific batches with wrong firmware. We will see in the future what they can do here
The Wifi/BT issue: As several members found out this is a real non-issue. Speed drops appear across all devices and platforms when using BT and Wifi together. Nothing really to complain about here
Random lockups and reboots and unknown serial number issue: ASUS is aware of these problems, already got fixes and is testing these fixes right now.
Nobody else tests fixes with real customers in a public forum. Thats' great!
Now lets talk about that damage I am always talking about:
Here the facts:
Reporting minor software issue (GPS and Wifi aside here) definitely leads to a smaller customer base for the Prime
Major news sites falsely reported the serial number problem as a hardware problem, leading to confused users which do not want to buy this tablet
Smaller userbases always lead to less support, both from the company and also from our own developers.
Less company support means that we will get less often and lower quality updates for our Prime. The device will be abandonned much faster than devices with large customer bases
Less dev support means less innovating new features from our side, less custom ROMs, less custom kernels, in fact the smaller the userbase the faster the Prime development will go dead
Think of the HTC HD2: the ultimate development phone. Its rather big userbase lead to incredible development. They have everything on that phone: Win 6.x, WP 7, Android 2.x and 4.x, real Linux... Smaller userbases ultimately lead to worse device development
I guess it's already too late, the damage being done by you and the major blog sites is irreparable.
Non tech-focused customers who read Engadget won't get a Prime now.
But these non-tech focused guys are the imporatn part of a customer base.
We tech guys here are always a very minor part of a device's customer base.
Ah and by the way: If you buy a product directly after launch, you have to expect those kind of problems.
I haven't seen any product launch in the last years which had not initial problems and issues. No matter if tablet or phones, HTC or Samsung...
ASUS is always one of the first (the first?) major companies, providing support on xda-developers. That is nothing usual for big companies like ASUS.
Give them credit for this move.
I hope someone actually read that text...
I completely agree, thanks for this post. However the problem is it are mostly people who haven't even bought the Prime are *****ing the most.
I couldn't agree more, *****ing about the problem isn't gonna get anything solved. If you have problems try to help, that way things can get fixed more quickly and then everyone (or at least most) can be happy.
read it and agree, there are issues but the support from Asus on this forums is great.
Srsly? Do you have like Stockholm-Syndrome?
Asus threw an unfinishied product on the market.
They can't fix the SN issue in 3 days? Well, I didn't have such issues with my 4 other android devices. Maybe the should have been testing it.
Of course it is embarassing for Asus, but this is clearly not our fault. We fulfilled our part with odering and paying for a tablet. Rest is up to them.
While I agree that a free TF700 or such things would be impossible, the GPS problem is clearly a sign there has be no/not enough testing.
All the problems you are stating would have been showing due to Asus product testing, again. This is completely THEIR fault and they have to deal with it now.
You think we need to stop reporting errors to make the prime look better and they can sell more?
Dude, seriously. Do you buy a brand new car and when you have issues, you just shut up so the store can sell some more?
I'd really love to love my Prime, but with all those obvious mistakes Asus made, I can't.
The problem with what you are doing is: If you support Asus now, other companies will see it's ok to sell faulty products, and the next generation of tablets could have big issues as well.
You need to say what's wrong for anybody to hear. Or would you like to buy a product and then find out later that it's full of bugs? But nobody tould you because it wouldn't be nice for the company?
Do you think Asus will decrease support if less people are bying it?
Again, this wouldn't be nice, but it's completely in the hands of Asus.
It's a big company and they shouldn't have trouble emplyoing a few guys for support. If not, the save money on the wrong thing. Don't make (Non-)Buyers responsible for this.
No matter what other companies do, bringing an untested product to the market is not acceptable and that is the feedback Asus is getting now.
And no, you don't have to expect those "kind of problems".
When I buy a 600€-Tablet, I expect a full working one, and not in 3 months but NOW. I didn't have problems with my Optimus 2x or Iconia A500.
It's a big difference wether the company is fixing issues or improves the quality with updates.
And another point on Asus working with the community: It's nice they are on XDA, but... I remember there was...is... a locked and encrypted bootloader?
Yeah, right. Asus completely locked the Prime and only promised to make an unlock tool after giant social network ****storms.
Is this "working" with the community? Why didn't they look at HTC and provided an unlock tool from the beginning? Asus is only giving in because they are afraid of more bad attention. And that seems to be the only way for the community to be heard.
Just my 2c.
pintness
I think peoples persistence on forums have forced ASUS to look harder at the problem but never the less they are doing something and its a real credit to them that Gary Key is active on our forums now. I think in this modern age ASUS have took a brave step and one that they should be praised for.
We are all upset about the problems but we need to give ASUS fair time to address them. We have all had a rant but now its time to work with ASUS and give them as much information as possible, this is the only way we all get what we want, loyal happy customers and a fantastic product with new and exciting products on the horizon.
Cut them a bit of slack.
Dear Diamondback,
Damage to ASUS with those hate campaigns? I am sorry, but I am not going to speak well of a company that releases devices with as many problems that I have paid for. If I end up buying a broken device, I will be disappointed. They did not let these devices through proper quality control and we are suffering from it.
Serial number issue should have never happened. WiFi issue should have never happened. GPS should have never happened. These problems can be caught in quality control, but they didn't because they rushed the device to the market before holidays and did not test it long enough beforehand.
Yes, a lot of new devices have tech problems. Difference being that while I have been part of many tech launches as an early adopter in the past, I have never seen a launch that has this many critical problems and this amount of returned devices. Even I had to return a device because the keyboard just did not work and I've never had to do it before in my life.
As for damage to 'us', your points are irrelevant. Social media attacks are important, because they make ASUS more aware of these situations and react quicker. Let's be honest here, ASUS PR has been horrible throughout the Transformer Prime launch. It is only thanks to their customer support and engineers in this forum that we get some information out of ASUS.
I will not 'lie' and say that TF201 is a great device. It is really really good, but if you want to be sure and want a better all-round device then I will suggest people to get an iPad 2 and I will not tell my friends that this device does not have flaws just because this will increase ASUS sales and public image.
These social media attacks are important because ASUS will hopefully try to do better in the future, because a company cannot survive many of these clusterfraks in a row.
If ASUS will 'abandon the device' quicker because people are critical about it, then so be it. It will only make it clear to me not to buy ASUS products in the future, since it is exactly when there are problems, where support is needed. Not providing this will lose them even more customers in the future.
And trust me when I say this, Transformer Prime will never be a popular device in a way iPad, Galaxy Tab or Kindle Fire are popular. It will sell more than the original Transformer, but it will be very little known outside tech circles. Most of my friends don't even know that there is such a thing as TF101, let alone TF201.
How can ASUS change that? Not disappointing early adopters. It is the most crucial thing about products release, since early adopters are the most passionate customers. At the moment though many of us are with flawed screens, weak WiFi, non-existent GPS, devices without serial numbers and countless of other issues that will really hold us back from speaking well about the product we have paid a lot of money for.
ASUS can really change all that by letting devices actually go through quality control and testing. Many of the problems with Prime were detected in just the first days of use by us or the reviewers. ASUS can spare to delay the release by a week to provide additional testing for a fixed amount of devices.
Will they do it in the future? Who knows, unlikely. This device was rushed to the market to get as much sales as possible, ASUS did not care about us, the customers, they cared about their sales.
And this is why we have every right to be critical of ASUS. I hope they will do better in the future.
pintness said:
Srsly? Do you have like Stockholm-Syndrome?
[...]
Just my 2c.
pintness
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kristovaher said:
Dead Diamondback,
[...]
And this is why we have every right to be critical of ASUS. I hope they will do better in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You both are not getting my point. Instead of going to the media you should report your errors to ASUS.
No matter how incompetent their customer support is on the phone, the errors will reach the developers anyway.
Nobody told you to praise the Prime. I just said that overpainting the issue won't help anyone. Not even you.
ASUS will fix the software problems. And the GPS issue got kinda resolved too. If you are not happy with it, return it.
I am pretty sure there will be other countries than UK and Taiwan with this move.
And yes you can't fix software errors in that scale in 3 days. Just deal with it. That's how software development works.
Oh and I hope that "Dead Diamondback" was a typo.... Otherwise, get off here troll
You haven't mentioned the dock issues lots of us are getting. My dock keyboard only works about 20% of the time I connect it. There is at least 30 or 40 users on here with the same issue, and about double that on the transformerforums site. This may not be a lot but I'm sure a lot of US owners don't own the dock where as is Europe you have to buy it as standard. ASUS support haven't been overly helpful - wait for the ICS upgrade and try a wipe - done that and it still doesn't work - no further update from ASUS. I'm having to send my tablet and dock back and hope the next one works fine - any issues with the new one and I'll be getting a refund.
kristovaher said:
Dead Diamondback,
Damage to ASUS with those hate campaigns? I am sorry, but I am not going to speak well of a company that releases devices with as many problems that I have paid for. If I end up buying a broken device, I will be disappointed. They did not let these devices through proper quality control and we are suffering from it.
Serial number issue should have never happened. WiFi issue should have never happened. GPS should have never happened. These problems can be caught in quality control, but they didn't because they rushed the device to the market before holidays and did not test it long enough beforehand.
Yes, a lot of new devices have tech problems. Difference being that while I have been part of many tech launches as an early adopter in the past, I have never seen a launch that has this many critical problems and this amount of returned devices. Even I had to return a device because the keyboard just did not work and I've never had to do it before in my life.
As for damage to 'us', your points are irrelevant. Social media attacks are important, because they make ASUS more aware of these situations and react quicker. Let's be honest here, ASUS PR has been horrible throughout the Transformer Prime launch. It is only thanks to their customer support and engineers in this forum that we get some information out of ASUS.
I will not 'lie' and say that TF201 is a great device. It is really really good, but if you want to be sure and want a better all-round device then I will suggest people to get an iPad 2 and I will not tell my friends that this device does not have flaws just because this will increase ASUS sales and public image.
These social media attacks are important because ASUS will hopefully try to do better in the future, because a company cannot survive many of these clusterfraks in a row.
If ASUS will 'abandon the device' quicker because people are critical about it, then so be it. It will only make it clear to me not to buy ASUS products in the future, since it is exactly when there are problems, where support is needed. Not providing this will lose them even more customers in the future.
And trust me when I say this, Transformer Prime will never be a popular device in a way iPad, Galaxy Tab or Kindle Fire are popular. It will sell more than the original Transformer, but it will be very little known outside tech circles. Most of my friends don't even know that there is such a thing as TF101, let alone TF201.
How can ASUS change that? Not disappointing early adopters. It is the most crucial thing about products release, since early adopters are the most passionate customers. At the moment though many of us are with flawed screens, weak WiFi, non-existent GPS, devices without serial numbers and countless of other issues that will really hold us back from speaking well about the product we have paid a lot of money for.
ASUS can really change all that by letting devices actually go through quality control and testing. Many of the problems with Prime were detected in just the first days of use by us or the reviewers. ASUS can spare to delay the release by a week to provide additional testing for a fixed amount of devices.
Will they do it in the future? Who knows, unlikely. This device was rushed to the market to get as much sales as possible, ASUS did not care about us, the customers, they cared about their sales.
And this is why we have every right to be critical of ASUS. I hope they will do better in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GDI read the ****ing OP's first post. He did not ask you to kiss Asus' feet. He did not ask you to say false POSITIVE things about the Prime. He did not tell you to disregard Asus' mistakes. He simply asked you to vent your frustration and give your CONSTRUCTIVE feedback to the appropriate recipient: ASUS.
BTW you have my thanks OP.
kaiserpc said:
You haven't mentioned the dock issues lots of us are getting. My dock keyboard only works about 20% of the time I connect it. There is at least 30 or 40 users on here with the same issue, and about double that on the transformerforums site. This may not be a lot but I'm sure a lot of US owners don't own the dock where as is Europe you have to buy it as standard. ASUS support haven't been overly helpful - wait for the ICS upgrade and try a wipe - done that and it still doesn't work - no further update from ASUS. I'm having to send my tablet and dock back and hope the next one works fine - any issues with the new one and I'll be getting a refund.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hm, seems I missed that. My german dock works perfectly. What's the issue exactly?
But still, ASUS is a big company, they can't just find, fix, test, and make an announcement in 3 days...
It reminds me of the launch of the HTC Desire HD, Back then it seemed as though the first couple of batches that made it into customers hands had not been properly tested and manufacturing QC was absolutely terrible.
GPS issues were rife, cases didn't fit together properly, screens were loose with dust underneath them. Then of course there was the screen bleed, stuck pixels and countless other problems.
I remember it well as I was one of the first people on this forum to receive my DHD and I spent countless hours sitting watching IRC channels for root to be achieved.
Now then after that short history lesson, here is the point of my story. There was a lot of complaining about these issues here on the forum, but what most people did was either accept the fact that this was an early batch and realised that as an early adopter these things are to be expected, or they sent them back. End of story.
There was no smeer campaign, nothing. Just people being adult about the situation and that's that.
Thanks for listening.
Doktaphex said:
It reminds me of the launch of the HTC Desire HD, Back then it seemed as though the first couple of batches that made it into customers hands had not been properly tested and manufacturing QC was absolutely terrible.
[...]
Thanks for listening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, I think I got one of the first good batches
Nobody started a big ****storm back then and everything is fine today. The Desire HD is still a very good device and it was one of the top sold devices from HTC.
HTC sorted out all problems.
Agree
I actually agree with everything you said diamondback.
I personally love my prime, but i have a couple of issues here and there. Nothing that wont get fixed in the long run. I have a moan here and there, But i still show my support to a brilliant device.
And another thing i have never seen is a compnay actually showing their dedication to fixing the problems like asus. For god sake people they actually have a rep on here talking to people and providing inside information that actually could help. And again in garys posts people are attacking them there.
I really those people who are attacking asus shoulld either:
1. Suck it up and shut up and wait for a fix
2. Sell there device or take it back for a refund and shut up about it.
I know its not the best path, but you have to give a company some time for actually fix these issues. It doesnt happen over night, they ar'nt robots!
Rant over
---------- Post added at 11:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 AM ----------
Diamondback said:
Same here, I think I got one of the first good batches
Nobody started a big ****storm back then and everything is fine today. The Desire HD is still a very good device and it was one of the top sold devices from HTC.
HTC sorted out all problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its funny because i have a DHD, i got one of the bad batches and still using it this day. Although HTC's repair team didnt do anything when i sent it back in. 3 days before my warrenty ran out. But that was a GPS issue for me. And im not really that bothered about it to be fair.
I personally love my phone, ive modded it so many times now ive lost count.
Just remember...Man with hand in pocket feel cocky all day
But aren't we pushing for double-standards here?
Because it would be a ****storm all around if Apple releases a product that has even a single critical flaw. Such as iPhone 4 antennagate. People pay a lot for Apple for quality, they don't expect such problems and Apple has very, very few issues like that with their product launches.
On the other hand we have ASUS who releases a product that has GPS that cannot be used, has weak WiFi range (+ broken WiFi on early US units), weak quality control on screen, keyboard and software issues with crashes and inability to update. Transformer Prime has more early adoption issues than iPhone's and iPad's have had in total.
Apple has set the standard, so when we end up paying a lot of money and face this many problems, being publicly critical about it makes sense. Sure you could say that ASUS is small compared to Apple, but if they want to compete with Apple they simply have to do better. If they release a device that is as flawed, it is not just bad for customers, but Android in general. I remember giving excuses to people who used my HTC Desire back in the day that had a multitouch screen that was not multitouch and it was obvious that it is a lesser device. I will feel just as bad when someone tries to use GPS on my Prime and is confused that it doesn't work and so on, because they -expect- the device to function.
Pat on the back and 'better next time' just doesn't cut it, since many of us will be using the device for more than a year. This is not a startup world, ASUS has been in the business for years, they are ambitious with their claims of having created the best tablet, if they cannot live up to it, they deserve the criticism.
They are a big boy and will hopefully do better next time. Market demands it. Otherwise someone else will simply create better devices and wins over the customers that ASUS has. ASUS is unique in that it offers an innovative keyboard dock with Prime, if it becomes popular then competition will increase and I'll gladly jump ship to manufacturer that has a better history with product launches.
Thank you OP for IMHO a needed and well thought out post.
I completely agree with OP post. People that are unsatisfied can easily return device and move on. But no, instead they love to hang around a nag like women with each other. I can tell most polls made here in thisbsection was made to make the Prime look bad. But guess what, it backfired. Most, if not all polls here show in favor of the Prime in a positive light. Don't believe me, just take a look. Of all the people that voted in them, its always 77-85% or more people that are happy with devices, or defect free or etc...
Although the smear campaigns might hurt a little, the ball is already rolling. Even the negative people not going to be able to stop developement. We already have a good number of developers doing alot of great things without bootloader unlocked yet. We have other major developers just waiting to hit the ground running once unlocking tool is available. Its almost surreal sometimes reading the issues some people have. As from 12/22 my device has worked great everyday and have really been enjoying it. Its really sad how some people try to nitpick every single little thing.
If you are unsatisfied with device, do like moderator Jerdog said. Which was get rid of device then, whine somewhere else, AND GO AWAY! Developers not going to want to hear your sob stories. Just imagine once custom roms start being made. Are those same people going to whine all the time after an early build is built n has some issues to be fixed?
Another thing also, some people are plain stupid. They smear n attack Asus for the Prime yet they talk of getting the new A-700. Dumb move. This new device hasn't even been proven tl be better then the Prime and won't be out for 4-5 months at the earliest. People just assume its better because it has a plastic strip across the back. Nothing can be assumed. This hasn't been thouroughly tested or reviewed by major tech sites to say its better. Which a mini test of sorts showed it wasn't, as far as wireless goes. To me. Asus is a great company because I received a great product. If people are to stupid to just return device instead of crying up here online, then that's on them. As they clearly have seen the people that love their devices way outnumber those who don't. sand ususally its the same people always complaining. That's why I've stopped trying to combat them in the threads really. I just report the post or thread, if its unreasonable. This has been working as several complaining threads already have been shut down. Even moderator tired of all the whining.
Just carry your a$$ somewhere else if you don't like your device. Plain n simple!
kristovaher said:
On the other hand we have ASUS who releases a product that has GPS that cannot be used, has weak WiFi range (+ broken WiFi on early US units), weak quality control on screen, keyboard and software issues with crashes and inability to update. Transformer Prime has more early adoption issues than iPhone's and iPad's have had in total.
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I've had NONE of the issues you mentioned. The only thing I can't confirm that works 100% is the GPS since I did not buy this tablet to use as a primary GPS unit! I have a phone that does that and is more PORTABLE since it fits in my pants pocket. Last I tried using the GPS, it locked on my exact location in less than a minute. But really, I didn't really care, I only tested it because of all the damn *****ing on this forum.
So yes, I am a proud owner of a Prime with a "functioning" GPS, STANDARD wifi range, a VIVID screen, operational keyboard dock, no software issues, and updated with ICS.
First, OP, this isn’t just about Asus. What you’re saying in your post is that to protect the image and viability of a product (any product), people should suck up what they’re handed and deal with problems quietly in a way that benefits the manufacturer. That way, the product’s image will be protected. That’s great for current owners looking to reinforce their purchase and to grow the user base, but what about people that haven’t yet purchased the product? Hide defects and issues from them so they can figure it out themselves? If Acer hoses the A700 launch, would you give the same advice to their board? This goes against the principles of XDA.
Back to the Prime. Many of the issues discussed here caused people to say the Prime wasn’t right for them and either returned them or passed. Would you deprive them of that knowledge beforehand to further your personal agenda? Did you sign the “unlock the bootloader” petition? If so, then you’re being somewhat hypocritical.
Manufacturers need to be held accountable for their decisions. In Asus’ case, the choice of a metal back cover, claiming “GPS” when there wasn’t, racing the Prime to market with inadequate testing, and the random QC issues were all self-inflicted. Following your guidance, if this was kept quiet and didn’t impact sales, what incentive would they have going forward to sweat the details and deliver high quality products starting with unit number one?
Any “damage done to the Prime” was done in meeting rooms in Taiwan long before anyone here had a Prime in their hands. And h/w and s/w aside, hopefully Asus learned from this that customers aren’t sheep and willing to accept what they’re given and in the future will provide more frequent, accurate, and consistent communication before and after they launch a product. It’s terrific that after the damage was done Gary Key’s been proactive in cleaning up the mess and Asus offered a six-month warranty extension. Let’s give them an “A” for that. They get an “F” for how they managed the launch, communication, some of their design choices, and initial QC. So, at best, they’ve earned a “C.” If they’re a learning organization, let’s see what they do with the TF700. If it’s a repeat of the Prime, then God help them. And if the TF700 is everything the Prime should have been, that’s what’s going to cause the problems you outlined to happen, not the *****ing.
My friends that bought (and returned) Prime’s are pissed. Anyone trying to get one before the holidays went through flaming hoops and invested a lot of time and energy that they won’t get back via a “refund.” They’ll never purchase an Asus product again and are telling everyone they know about their experience. So even if everyone on XDA follows your advice, the damage will continue long after the postings stop. And it should because that’s what keeps manufacturers in check.
I open a new thread even though the content is and will be discussed in others.
It's just getting confused to keep writing, quoting or answering threads of 20 and more sides.
I hope that the mods are not banning me for this
Frustration is grabbing me badly, like for many others on this forum, because even though I can read that ASUS/Gary Key is giving us a hand to solve or improve issues, I think we are getting nowhere.
If the WiFi/BT issue is caused by lousy hardware/software combination, then no fw will solve the issue.
Many of us have still a chance to return the device and get 600€ back, as in my case.
We need an official statement from ASUS telling us in which way they will protect us and their own name from bad publicity, if the issues are not solvable.
ASUS in Denmark knows zero! I have to mention this forum and Gary Key, just to give them an idea of what it is going on.
The only place I managed to get valuable information is in this forum. That's poor for a company like ASUS.
No mention on their support sides in any country, that "they are experiencing" issues with the device.
I bought mine through Amazon DE, and I have 30 days (now only 14) to send it back. It seems that nobody can promise anything, so what do I/we do?
I have no other complaint that poor wifi and BT causing connection break downs or badly signal. The rest is fine!
What are we customers, that were relying on ASUS brand, quality and service, going to do?
Tell me to send it back and I will probably do it, tell me something else, BUT tell us something more that "we are working on XXXXXXXXXXX solution".
Begin to tell us, what is next step either to get a replacement with fixes or money back if the "returm window" is closed.
Thanks in advance and regards.
If you are not happy with your Bluetooth/Wi-Fi the only thing you can do is return it for a refund and wait for another tablet because the design of the Prime is causing every single prime to have a weaker Wi-Fi signal.
... so the thread Gary opened is useless?? I think it does not seem like they gave up yet.
What are they trying to fix then?
Are you saying this because you know more than Asus or "us" do?
Regards
what you said, OP, is perfectly understandable. XDA may have useful info but the company, Asus, needs to address the people more directly or more often. Gary can only do so much at a time. I'm sure he is being bombarded with stuff at the moment. although those who experience BT/wifi combo issues are limited in the way they use the combo, they are those who aren't affected. look at jjvega thread where he made a video showing it wasn't affecting his new tablet. Fixes are in the works. we just tend to be impatient alot of times. if return window is dwindling down, and issue is bothering you that much, then only sensible thing to do is return it. that'll just be Asus loss then. No one should be stuck with a device they unsatisfied with, point blank. good luck on what you decide to do. do what you feel is right. maybe even try to exchange if possible.
plus I don't think you will be banned for your OP. nothing wrong or out of line with what you said. to me, it seems like Gary answers faster to PM than in a thread where people there are even trying to flame or belittle him. I've got some great info or help from Gary. people keep abusing his presence n he will go. then people will out back n will wish he was still around.
Gary mentioned a fix in February, so it will most likely come after your return window. Return it while you can. Purchase it again when you are confident they have fixed this issue.
PrimeTimeBro said:
If you are not happy with your Bluetooth/Wi-Fi the only thing you can do is return it for a refund and wait for another tablet because the design of the Prime is causing every single prime to have a weaker Wi-Fi signal.
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Except for mine and my friends.
redpoint13 said:
Except for mine and my friends.
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Just because WI-FI has a slightly weaker range doesn't mean it doesn't work it just doesnt work quite as good as most other Wi-Fi devices but it should be fine for most in home situations. I am not sure exactly what issue OP is talking about though perhaps some Wi-Fi units truly have issues on same Primes I just known the range on the 3 Primes I have had is exactly the same in my home but not quite as good as my 4 other Wi-Fi devices I have tested ( range is not quite as far)
Hate to rub in. But in Singapore.. I am facing an equally lousy service support and they claim that during Singapore launch, they did not mention abt gps. They are trying every bit to say, no GPS. U want location, u use wifi...
And there is no return policy!
$uck big time. Cost me sgd $700...
That's why I pay with Paypal or credit card, you can get a refund.
It's not as if an answer will follow immediately after a bug is reported. It takes time to discover a bug, confirm it, come up with a fix, test it, obtain more samples, test on those samples, and distribute it, not to mention all the logistical corporate and other engineering steps that I skipped over. If you're unsure you want it, return it and buy it later.
As far as non-US issues, I'd bet that SO FAR there just haven't been as many issues in Germany as in the US, so they just haven't acknowledged it's a WW issue.
..so far issues are:
1) WiFi signal is not good as other WiFi devices (not laptops).
2) BT and WiFi issues when both are used at the same time.
3) Flickering of displays primarely on YouTube and after ICS installation.
4) MicroSD Card slot... as mentionned in another thread in this forum.
What a pity! But I wonder who in the h*** controlled this device before sending out on the market.
Nothing can be perfect, but these issues are not small things, and also very easy to troubleshoot and discover.
I test NetGear stuff, and something like this will be caught by "betatesters" 99.9%
Regards
My WiFi range was pretty good, at least acceptable. However when you move away from the router the speed got very slow. Next to the router I could get 20MB/s, 1 floor down (with full WiFi bars) I got 5 MB/s and another floor down around 2MB/s (still 2 WiFi bars).
GPS worked.. but wasn't good enough for navigation at least in populated area's.
Looks like a distraught customer in San Francisco is suing Asus. Article is at courthouse news.
markd311 said:
Looks like a distraught customer in San Francisco is suing Asus. Article is at courthouse news.
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Thanks for the link........
So, I was surfing the internets and accidentally came across this almost all white page with a single input box. Above it says something like goo g le or something like that. Wow, it's a search engine! Look what I found!
http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/02/13/43820.htm
damn he's still worried about the GPS lol there's much worse to worry about now
"Almost immediately after the purchase of his Transformer Prime, plaintiff began to experience significantly reduced GPS performance which rendered the device unreliable and not functional."
I'd really like to see how GPS not working on a tablet (which you don't really need anyway) makes a device not functional.
redbullcat said:
"Almost immediately after the purchase of his Transformer Prime, plaintiff began to experience significantly reduced GPS performance which rendered the device unreliable and not functional."
I'd really like to see how GPS not working on a tablet (which you don't really need anyway) makes a device not functional.
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The GPS device, which was advertised as an included feature of the tablet, is not functional.
I personally could not care less about the GPS and I'll never use it, but it's not fair to pretend that it wasn't important to some people.
It won't go anywhere. Money not long enough to hang with Asus..lol
redbullcat said:
"Almost immediately after the purchase of his Transformer Prime, plaintiff began to experience significantly reduced GPS performance which rendered the device unreliable and not functional."
I'd really like to see how GPS not working on a tablet (which you don't really need anyway) makes a device not functional.
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Without GPS he got lost in his house which made him unable to locate his router and get close enough to receive a signal and make wifi usable! Duh! Lol
Sent from my ADR6300 using xda premium
redbullcat said:
"Almost immediately after the purchase of his Transformer Prime, plaintiff began to experience significantly reduced GPS performance which rendered the device unreliable and not functional."
I'd really like to see how GPS not working on a tablet (which you don't really need anyway) makes a device not functional.
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Most likely because google uses a lot of API calls to the internal GPS for their subsystems. Also for a device to be defined as "functional" all parameters and specifications from design must be met.
I can see this case from both sides. On the one side they have told any one whom is having these problems that they will work with them or issue a return. On the other hand the FCC verified the functionality of the tablet as it was and the tablet is sold under false pretences. Sounds like an interesting case.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
The plaintiff would have to argue that GPS functionality is the primary reason for the purchase of his Prime.
The main problem w/ this case is that he knew of this issue before product arrival and did not choose to return it to which he would have to argue that ASUS had perceived that this was something that could be fixed with software, which is not true because ASUS had admitted that hardware was the fault.
Plus FCC already passed this s being a competent wireless device. I can see possibly trying to argue. But trying to say wifi is useless or doesn't work is b.s. there hasn't been one person who wifi was completely broken or Unable to connect. So he will easily loose on that. Plus Asus people will thoroughly check for any tampering at all and anything that person could've done that's wrong. They will see if he has all the latest firmware dates n all that. They will probably get it to work n the courtroom n make the guy look silly..lol. a dead end case really. Believe Asus already has legal teams n plan in actions for situations just like this. So many ways he could easily lose the case.
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Plus they'll easily say why didn't he return it or exchange it. He wasn't forced to keep it..lol. open n shut case win for Asus. It might just open their eyes though enough to finally make a big move. So regardless if plaintiff loses this case, something good can come out of it.
redbullcat said:
I'd really like to see how GPS not working on a tablet (which you don't really need anyway) makes a device not functional.
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I'll be happy to show you how WiFi not working on a tablet makes the device not functional. Also, I can show you how when you pair a Bluetooth device and lose 85% of your already weak WiFi throughput, it makes your device nonfunctional.
The litigant may not have alleged those defects in his original complaint, but that's a simple matter of an amendment. I'm sure it'll come up.
Some of you are unreal! Nobody cares if you think the GPS doesn't matter because it doesn't have cell capability. I have 3 GPS units that function great and they don't have WIFI or cell service. ASUS sold the prime as having GPS and that's basically false advertising. If you bought an early model that states GPS and listened to ASUS saying they will fix the issue, you'll be waiting forever because the only fix is another external GPS. They go to court show the functionality of the GPS , then they're ordered to comply with their stated specs. I don't care what someone does with their prime but you cannot tell me or anyone else how to.
demandarin said:
Plus they'll easily say why didn't he return it or exchange it. He wasn't forced to keep it..lol. open n shut case win for Asus. It might just open their eyes though enough to finally make a big move. So regardless if plaintiff loses this case, something good can come out of it.
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Before you call this an "open shut case" you might want to spend some time reading the Uniform Commercial Code (e.g. the law that governs the sale of goods in the US). Pay particular attention to:
§ 2-714. Buyer's Damages for Breach in Regard to Accepted Goods.
(1) Where the buyer has accepted goods and given notification (subsection (3) of Section 2-607) he may recover as damages for any non-conformity of tender the loss resulting in the ordinary course of events from the seller's breach as determined in any manner which is reasonable.
(2) The measure of damages for breach of warranty is the difference at the time and place of acceptance between the value of the goods accepted and the value they would have had if they had been as warranted, unless special circumstances show proximate damages of a different amount.
(3) In a proper case any incidental and consequential damages under the next section may also be recovered.
I know that's a lot of words, but if you sell a "good" and list a feature on the package or marketing materials, that creates a "warranty". If the feature doesn't work, you've breached that warranty and the "tender" is "non-conforming". Even if the buyer "accepts" the good, he can still sue for breach. Isn't law fun when you actually read it?
Thank you! Someone making sense.
demandarin said:
there hasn't been one person who wifi was completely broken or Unable to connect.
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There are several threads where WiFi was completely broken. Some people even had their WiFi completely devoid of life after OTA update.
dcAndroidFan said:
Before you call this an "open shut case" you might want to spend some time reading the Uniform Commercial Code (e.g. the law that governs the sale of goods in the US). Pay particular attention to:
§ 2-714. Buyer's Damages for Breach in Regard to Accepted Goods.
(1) Where the buyer has accepted goods and given notification (subsection (3) of Section 2-607) he may recover as damages for any non-conformity of tender the loss resulting in the ordinary course of events from the seller's breach as determined in any manner which is reasonable.
(2) The measure of damages for breach of warranty is the difference at the time and place of acceptance between the value of the goods accepted and the value they would have had if they had been as warranted, unless special circumstances show proximate damages of a different amount.
(3) In a proper case any incidental and consequential damages under the next section may also be recovered.
I know that's a lot of words, but if you sell a "good" and list a feature on the package or marketing materials, that creates a "warranty". If the feature doesn't work, you've breached that warranty and the "tender" is "non-conforming". Even if the buyer "accepts" the good, he can still sue for breach. Isn't law fun when you actually read it?
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But technically GPS does work. Not just as anyone is expecting it to. Nowhere does it say a working GPS has to be able to navigate. As long as it can lock n pull your location that falls under working.
Regardless if the guy wins or loses the case, good can come out if it.
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BUYMECAR said:
There are several threads where WiFi was completely broken. Some people even had their WiFi completely devoid of life after OTA update.
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Who said this applies to this guy case? Lol. Plus I haven't seen these threads n I'm here all the time. Of a completely broken wifi and can't connect at all? Even if true it was caused by software, which can easily be changed. Not a hardware fault. Get it right..lmao
demandarin said:
But technically GPS does work. Not just as anyone is expecting it to. Nowhere does it say a working GPS has to be able to navigate. As long as it can lock n pull your location that falls under working.
Regardless if the guy wins or loses the case, good can come out if it.
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If you bought a car with an engine that only ran in completely optimal environmental conditions, and could only get the car up to a maximum speed of 22 MPH, would you be content that it "technically" worked? Or would you think that was a defect?
dcAndroidFan said:
I'll be happy to show you how WiFi not working on a tablet makes the device not functional. Also, I can show you how when you pair a Bluetooth device and lose 85% of your already weak WiFi throughput, it makes your device nonfunctional.
The litigant may not have alleged those defects in his original complaint, but that's a simple matter of an amendment. I'm sure it'll come up.
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Those make it not functional. But GPS doesn't make a device not functional, and that was what was stated.
OK, yes, the device was sold with false advertising. But ASUS obviously didn't know that GPS wasn't working, otherwise they'd have tried to fix it.
At the end of the day, to me it doesn't matter. I never used GPS on my TF101 and I'll likely never use it on my TF201. I have an excellent smartphone, which is on me 95% of the time. If I ever need GPS, I'll use that.
Plus its not even known if he attempted to return or exchange tablet. And if he sent it in for RMA or not. If he didn't then that's even more ammo for Asus. regardless of assumptions made if Rma can fix it or not. They will check if he followed the proper channels to getting issue resolved. If he didn't do anything then he lost for sure. Plus I bet if this actually does go to court Asus will get GPS working in there..lol. as soon as it shows a lock. Its a wrap. Fits definition of GPS. Able to find and lock on satellite. GPS definition is Global Positioning System. So if it pulls info, its technically working. Might not work to extent you would like but still fits description and therefore is why FCC tested it. Even most people GPS here now can at least see satellites and get a lock. Navigating is the problem for most. So it technically still fits a working description.
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dcAndroidFan said:
If you bought a car with an engine that only ran in completely optimal environmental conditions, and could only get the car up to a maximum speed of 22 MPH, would you be content that it "technically" worked? Or would you think that was a defect?
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GPS n engine not even close comparison. Engine needed for car to work. GPS isn't needed for device to work. Tablet will still work fine without it. That's the difference.
Anyways there was already enough debate on this. GPS is a dead issue. No matter results of this case, it should turn out good for everyone. Maybe the fact someone even taking them to court over this will open their eyes. So I'm not going to argue what your meaning of GPS is. We will see how the case unfolds, if it even goes to trial..lol. more thsn likely Asus offer guy a new prime and case n charges are dismissed..lol. avoidance of going to court would be first priority of Asus. If it does go, then Asus will use everything in their power to show device was working as listed by spec as approved by FCC. They have more than enough paperwork n proof to prove that.