I have read that taskkiller is not necessary on Android as the OS will kill off running apps when it needs memory - what are people's thoughts on this?
Hmmm...I read somewhere (maybe on here) heard if the App is coded properly that when not in use it will be background so not take up memory.
Not too knowledgable, but in that case would imagine they are acting like a windows service so will be taking up memory somewhere....so perhaps what I read was nonsense
Well, I have stopped killing tasks and guess what - I notice no difference at all! Hero is just as speedy (or slow depending on how you wanna look at it!).
Interesting!
Killing truly idle applications wont have significant effect. There are however many applications which appear idle, but still drains resources. An example is Peep, the twitter client, which starts automatically even if there's no twitter account configured. It has some frequent checks that put load on the CPU and thus helps drain power. Killing it adds many hours of standby time.
i'm not using any task manager/killer, did try them for a couple of days, can't really tell the difference, except i was wasting time constantly killing apps :/
suisen said:
i'm not using any task manager/killer, did try them for a couple of days, can't really tell the difference, except i was wasting time constantly killing apps :/
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Ditto... surely there is no need as the OS will kill a unused app if it needs the memory ??? I don't have any problem running any apps one after the other... they just load.
The only lag I get is while the handset starts a widget update, once they are started everything runs slickly.
I found it a little slicker without taskiller. Especially in the use of big apps like copilot or documents2go. It seems to be managing itself pretty well.
Yep. I can report that the phone is working very well without Taskkiller. I have uninstalled it now.
If you are reading this, give it a try for a few days and tell us what you think. You may be pleasantly surprised...
Ditto - I've removed taskiller so I don't get tempted. Surprise surprise, no problems, no lag, etc. Now mostly this is due to removing the clock and people widget, but memory management seems fine after playing many different games and browsing the internet.
I think a benefit to doing this is that you aren't going to get and bizarre problems caused by killing system processes by accident - ie you won't miss alarms or stop receiving email alerts.
hi i have only just got the hero and was wondering how to close apps properly. i have noticed that when you hold the home key for a while a window pops up showing some apps ...is this how you close them? or is simply pressing the home key shutting them .
The long press on home just brings up a list of apps that have been recently run. It's almost a task switcher, but not quite!
Many apps will exit if you "back" out of them - i.e. when in the app keep pressing back until you get back to the home screen. However, this isn't the case for all applications. Some may have an explicit exit or close button, whereas others may have nothing at all.
However, Android is pretty good at managing its own applications, and will kill/exit them as necessary. In my experience, there's little to be gained from explicitly killing applications using a task killer, but some people swear by it.
Regards,
Dave
foxmeister said:
The long press on home just brings up a list of apps that have been recently run. It's almost a task switcher, but not quite!
Many apps will exit if you "back" out of them - i.e. when in the app keep pressing back until you get back to the home screen. However, this isn't the case for all applications. Some may have an explicit exit or close button, whereas others may have nothing at all.
However, Android is pretty good at managing its own applications, and will kill/exit them as necessary. In my experience, there's little to be gained from explicitly killing applications using a task killer, but some people swear by it.
Regards,
Dave
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Most Task Killers free up memory thats used by background apps.
so basicly back out of the app and let android do the rest of the worring. thanks for advise
risterdid said:
Most Task Killers free up memory thats used by background apps.
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Yes, but the point is that Android itself will start killing applications if it starts to run low on resources. (see http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/fundamentals.html)
Regards,
Dave
I'll attempt to sum it up once and for all, to try and set the record straight.
In Android's virtual machine, there is no functional differentiation between "closing" an app and "switching away from" an app. They are the same (the exception is things like music players which need to keep playing after you switch away from them, but even then only the 'service' part needs to keep running).
Whenever you switch away from an app, its current state is remembered so that even if it is effectively "killed" it can be returned to in just that state next time it's opened. Then Android either kills the process or it keeps it open, killing it when it needs the memory. You won't notice any difference between either scenario, except maybe that an app loads a little bit faster if it was kept in memory. At any rate, "closed" apps do not "run", and they do not take RAM or CPU cycles from other apps.
In terms of process/memory management, Android's VM has more in common with a web browser than a desktop OS - sure it can remember your state when you switch apps (like switching tabs, going back/forward/home in a browser) but whether behind the scenes it loads it all into and out of memory when you switch back and forth, or it all stays in memory is irrelevant to the user. Nobody worries that a long forum page on another tab or in their back button history is occupying 80 megs in the background or not, the browser takes care of loading/unloading it from RAM as needed, and that's just like how Android's VM works when switching between various pages of various apps.
Once you understand this you understand that all these 'task killer' apps are really unnecessary - all they'll do is make it slower to restart an app once closed. They don't reclaim RAM that was previously unavailable to other apps.
To cut a long story short, pressing "home" is a great way to close an app, whether you want to return to it later or not.
MercuryStar said:
Nobody worries that a long forum page on another tab or in their back button history is occupying 80 megs in the background or not, the browser takes care of loading/unloading it from RAM as needed, and that's just like how Android's VM works when switching between various pages of various apps.
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that is not true for me, my firefox can eat a lot of resources as long as it is open. and i can see a performance difference when having a lot of apps open on my hero. not that it would be a problem, but you can see the menus scrolling more "fluid" after killing all bg apps, for example.
kendong2 said:
you can see the menus scrolling more "fluid" after killing all bg apps, for example.
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I would wager that's the placebo effect. It feels faster because you believe it should. If you understand how the OS works you realise that apps you've switched away from do nothing to slow down or take memory from any other app (see my exception above about apps that launch background services such as music player).
kendong2 said:
that is not true for me, my firefox can eat a lot of resources as long as it is open. and i can see a performance difference when having a lot of apps open on my hero. not that it would be a problem, but you can see the menus scrolling more "fluid" after killing all bg apps, for example.
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I do notice this too. There is a general 'sluggishness' with my Hero when there are lots of app sleeping/running/hibernating/whatever in the background. As soon as I kill off a few unwanted ones, all the menus scroll faster and home screens change quicker.
And this is not the placebo effect either. The menu's DO scroll more fluidly after I have killed a few apps, regardless of how you describe the RAM management...
Micksta said:
And this is not the placebo effect either. The menu's DO scroll more fluidly after I have killed a few apps, regardless of how you describe the RAM management...
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exactly, you can tell easily if it is one motion or looks like it is "skipping frames". even it is only because it takes the device some cpu cycles to kill other apps, it does make a difference. like i said a rather cosmetic one, since it doesn't really effect the general usage. nevertheless i like to know what is running and what's not, and so far im running good with advanced task manager free.
WOW i didnt expect a massive response for my question but i thank you all for your responses
MercuryStar said:
I would wager that's the placebo effect. It feels faster because you believe it should. If you understand how the OS works you realise that apps you've switched away from do nothing to slow down or take memory from any other app (see my exception above about apps that launch background services such as music player).
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that's not true, my phone gets so sluggish sometimes that i can't answer a phone call, the phone doesn't register that i press the answer button. and when that happends i usually have like 20 mb of free ram.
Daniehabazin said:
that's not true, my phone gets so sluggish sometimes that i can't answer a phone call, the phone doesn't register that i press the answer button. and when that happends i usually have like 20 mb of free ram.
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Just as a matter of interest, do you use swapper or AppsToSD?
My phone never gets into the situation you've described, but even though I do have the full version of TasKiller, I almost never use it, and I don't see a need at present to use AppsToSD.
In addition, I'd imagine that having a swap partition would cause an issue with Androids own memory management, since I guess it can't distinguish between real and "virtual" memory. So where a "non-swap" device would start killing processes, a "swap" device would just continue on regardless because it thinks it still has physical memory available.
Regards,
Dave
Yesterday I downloaded "Advanced Task Killer Free"... anyone who has experiences with this? Is is better than just "Task Killer" or is it just an updated version of "Task Killer" ?
thanks!
have been using atk free for a while (lol 2 weeks since i got the hero) now, i really like it. its advantage over all other task managers IMHO: it has an ignore list, things you ignore are not shown in the running tasks list. in the list you have check boxes, where you can select the tasks that will be killed, and this list is remembered. for example "htc sense" is on my ignore list, but "music" is only checked, so i can uncheck it when i don't want to kill it while listening to music. next time i want to kill music i just have to tap the checkbox, no dealing with the ignore list here...
Daniehabazin said:
that's not true, my phone gets so sluggish sometimes that i can't answer a phone call, the phone doesn't register that i press the answer button. and when that happends i usually have like 20 mb of free ram.
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I get this problem a lot, and in answer to fox meister, I don't have AppsToSD.
I don't know if the problem is RAM or CPU related, but the CPU often jumps to 100% when things are really slow.
Is the issue likely to be background apps, or widgets even?
Sausageman said:
I get this problem a lot, and in answer to fox meister, I don't have AppsToSD.
I don't know if the problem is RAM or CPU related, but the CPU often jumps to 100% when things are really slow.
Is the issue likely to be background apps, or widgets even?
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Same for me with the processor.
When i reboot my phone i usually have 90 mb of free ram, after starting a few applications, like browser and phonebook, it plummets down to 20 mb.
I do have some extra applications that starts as services, like systray monitor and 3g watchdog.
when i open atk after a fresh reboot i see that some applications that i don't even use is started, like footprints, settings and calendar, even my webrowser is started, whats up with that, can it be disabled?
I think the issue is that we have some applications that autostart withous us using them, and also programs that we download that autostarts as services and maybe having memory leaks...
I came to chime in with my experiences of the CDMA hero and sluggishness.
I watch memory like a hawk (thanks Mogul) and I too have around 80-90mb free ram on start, but it can get down to around 30 rather quickly. Once it gets down here, I notice that screen transitions and random lag occurs in apps. If I go into Advanced Task Killer and kill many of the stragglers, my menus are as smooth as can be.
It is most certainly NOT a placebo effect.
One thing I really like about Advanced Task Killer (pay version) is that it has the "Auto End" feature, where it will kill all apps not chosen to be excluded at the interval that you choose. For example, I have determined the system applications that need to be on all the time, and I've excluded those. Every hour, ATK kills everything else. For the most part, my Hero hovers around 70MB now at all times, although it can get down there to around 30-40MB if I'm right around the 1 hour mark.
That feature alone makes it much better than Taskiller IMO. Totally worth 99 cents
This definition would imply that android works exactly like the iphone osx? I mean saving "screenshots" of the last state of an app. But NOT having real multitasking?
Because it's not possible to have multitasking and at the same time "inactive" background apps everytime you hit the home button...
MercuryStar said:
I'll attempt to sum it up once and for all, to try and set the record straight.
In Android's virtual machine, there is no functional differentiation between "closing" an app and "switching away from" an app. They are the same (the exception is things like music players which need to keep playing after you switch away from them, but even then only the 'service' part needs to keep running).
Whenever you switch away from an app, its current state is remembered so that even if it is effectively "killed" it can be returned to in just that state next time it's opened. Then Android either kills the process or it keeps it open, killing it when it needs the memory. You won't notice any difference between either scenario, except maybe that an app loads a little bit faster if it was kept in memory. At any rate, "closed" apps do not "run", and they do not take RAM or CPU cycles from other apps.
In terms of process/memory management, Android's VM has more in common with a web browser than a desktop OS - sure it can remember your state when you switch apps (like switching tabs, going back/forward/home in a browser) but whether behind the scenes it loads it all into and out of memory when you switch back and forth, or it all stays in memory is irrelevant to the user. Nobody worries that a long forum page on another tab or in their back button history is occupying 80 megs in the background or not, the browser takes care of loading/unloading it from RAM as needed, and that's just like how Android's VM works when switching between various pages of various apps.
Once you understand this you understand that all these 'task killer' apps are really unnecessary - all they'll do is make it slower to restart an app once closed. They don't reclaim RAM that was previously unavailable to other apps.
To cut a long story short, pressing "home" is a great way to close an app, whether you want to return to it later or not.
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Click to collapse
Shahpur.Azizpour said:
This definition would imply that android works exactly like the iphone osx? I mean saving "screenshots" of the last state of an app. But NOT having real multitasking?
Because it's not possible to have multitasking and at the same time "inactive" background apps everytime you hit the home button...
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Click to collapse
No, you've not understood the explanation.
The iPhone will always* terminate an application that isn't on its list of "approved" multi-tasking apps once it isn't active any more (i.e. you've switched tasks).
Android will try to keep whatever it can in memory, but eventually will start killing processes in order to keep the system running.
So, if you're on an iPhone listening to something on Spotify and you want to browse something on the web, the iPhone will "kill" Spotify when you switch to the web browser. On Android this won't occur except in the most critical of resource low situations, but then again, I'd imagine other apps would get killed before Spotify.
Read this article, specifically the section from "Component Lifecycles" onwards specifically "Activity Lifecycle", "Saving activity state" and "Processes and lifecycles".
Regards,
Dave
* Unless it has been jailbroken!
Hi,
I installed Amazon App Store app to get one of the free app of the days. But now, it keeps running in the background. Probably collecting info.
I added the app to the Auto-End list (where it SHOULD kill the app after 2 minutes of screen off). The Amazon app seems to start when phone boots up. It also someone resurrects itself. I've made sure to not use it, and at some point during the day I checked running tasks and there it is.
If I kill it manually, it eventually shows up again some time during the day.
There are other apps that turn on by themselves on startup, but don't resurrect themselves. On windows, it's easy to manage auto-startup services. It's in the administrative tool. Is there the equivalent of this on Android?
Amazon is annoying like that; it does the same thing with me. Its really not hurting your battery or phone but just looking at it can be annoying so i understand. If it really bothers you that much get "titanium backup" from the market and freeze it when you aren't using it. Also your phone is smart enough to close apps/end processes on its own, moto just put the task killer there as it really serves no purpose. Also auto killing apps isnt smart; your phone probably uses more battery when it has to open up a new process everytime you open an app since you autokill and dont let it manage process/apps on its own. Android likes to let apps that aren't being used rest in memory in the background...id suggest you stop auto killing apps and do some research for yourself on how the android linux kernel works.
Thanks.
I did read into Android developer's way of thinking about how apps on a smart phone should behave, and their philosophy regarding memory management.
However, this philosophy opens up the possibility for abuse by app developers (Amazon). Programs that I use maybe once a month really don't need to be running (especially on startup), regardless of how little memory they use up, or how awesome Android's memory management scheme is.
I don't intend on micromanaging every process. Just those that are obvious wastes.
coachclass said:
Thanks.
I did read into Android developer's way of thinking about how apps on a smart phone should behave, and their philosophy regarding memory management.
However, this philosophy opens up the possibility for abuse by app developers (Amazon). Programs that I use maybe once a month really don't need to be running (especially on startup), regardless of how little memory they use up, or how awesome Android's memory management scheme is.
I don't intend on micromanaging every process. Just those that are obvious wastes.
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I agree with you. Try out bloatware freezer or other apps in the market that blk apps from starting up when the phone turns on. Android definitely needs to get small issues like this fixed in future builds for sure.
So I've noticed that even after using the "close all programs" option in the "running" portion of the app drawer, apps start popping up there even if i haven't used them. The nook contacts for instance, i never use, yet it still shows up in "running." It seems to be using storage space, and i certainly don't want those extra apps draining the battery. Has anyone else encountered this?
ETA: So i was mistaking memory for storage, my bad, but i still don' t want apps running on the RAM when i don't want them to. The ones that seem to always pop up are nook contacts, nook shop, pandora, amazon app store, and pulse. Why are these apps initializing? Is it an update/being connected to the internet thing?
I take it this is your first Android device. Check the link to see how memory is managed in Android.
http://mobworld.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/memory-management-in-android/
Yep, first android device, thank you so much, couldnt find anything by searching the forum.
I'm still not 100% sure why apps i'm not using would show up like that, the impression i got from that article was that android has unusual priorities in killing apps in use, why are apps i never use showing up?
Some apps are programmed to stay partially resident in memory because they are used by other apps. Contacts would be used by Email, etc.
Just because it says they're running, though, does not mean that they will affect how your tablet runs at all.
In a nutshell, taskkillers are ineffective and unnecessary in Android. A lot of us come from a Windows-mindset that says "kill tasks to free up memory!" but this does nothing for Android. (The exceptions seem to be rogue processes).
All I know is I was driving myself nuts when I first got my Android phone using task killers, and worrying about apps I'd 'killed' popping right back up again. I was actually slowing down the system, not speeding it up. When I finally read about it, and then got rid of the task killer stuff, my performance actually improved. My limited understanding of this, is that a killed app will actually expend more memory opening itself back up again to run idle, than if you just leave it running idle.
Thank you zaptoons, that makes sense. I hadnt really noticed much ofa difference with the apps killed or not, so very helpful info. Still getting used to my tab, think rooting may be in my future.
I have the LG G2x.
I often go to Running Services and check what's running. I am under the impression that this is a good way of knowing which apps run in the background, and how much they consume (memory).
AM I WRONG about this? Sometimes I will uninstall an app if I see it won't close for a long time for no apparent reason - assuming it's slowing down my phone.
THANKS
hmm.....think u dont need to do this. and if u want to know the correct details of all running process and activities then install some advanced task managers from market. also you may kill them all together using that app. may include exclude list....so on!!
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
I really don't see why you should close the services, unless you are actually experiencing performance problems. Android should be efficient enough to shut down anything that takes way too much resources...
A running services doesn't necessarily mean that it is doing something in the background, it just means that it hasn't been killed and is ready to do whatever it does best.
So unless you have a really old phone with very little RAM or you are actually experiencing performance problems, you shouldn't worry. But it is always good to keep an eye on what is going on once in a while anyway ;-)
if your phone has enough ram and also if the running services dont harm the performance of your device you shouldnt be worried about that ....but i wud still suggest u to use the ram manager instead of closing the running apps in settings
Android doesn't need any sort of micro-managing when it comes to resources. It manages itself, right up until the point where someone does something stupid like installing a 'Task-Killer' or 'RAM Optimiser'.
Stop trying to sabotage your phone and start using it instead!
DirkGently said:
Android doesn't need any sort of micro-managing when it comes to resources. It manages itself, right up until the point where someone does something stupid like installing a 'Task-Killer' or 'RAM Optimiser'.
Stop trying to sabotage your phone and start using it instead!
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FINALLY ! I was expecting this would be the case with Android as well. THANK YOU !!!!!!
DirkGently said:
Android doesn't need any sort of micro-managing when it comes to resources. It manages itself, right up until the point where someone does something stupid like installing a 'Task-Killer' or 'RAM Optimiser'.
Stop trying to sabotage your phone and start using it instead!
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Click to collapse
Very true Task Killers and the like have been proven to use more memory than anything else. Also they tend to aggrivate a low Memory situation. Some task killers will prematurely shut down programs, the program auto-restarts to finish the task. Which causes even more memory to be allocated. Sometimes a program will have to restart several times causing a larger than usual memory drain. So long story short, stay away from Task Killers.
prboy1969 said:
Very true Task Killers and the like have been proven to use more memory than anything else. Also they tend to aggrivate a low Memory situation. Some task killers will prematurely shut down programs, the program auto-restarts to finish the task. Which causes even more memory to be allocated. Sometimes a program will have to restart several times causing a larger than usual memory drain. So long story short, stay away from Task Killers.
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Thank you as well!
I wonder why Google doesn't restrict these from the Market....