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Hey guys,
as we have so many open questions on Wifi perfomance I decided to do some personal research about it.
I am using the following devices:
ASUS Transformer Prime:
German model, 32GB, gray
Updated to .33 firmware
HTC Desire HD
German one, did not have any Wifi issues to date
Running a custom Sense 3.5 ROM from the based on HTC Sensation XL
I tested the Wifi performance all the time with an app called Speedtest.net
Additonally I used an app called Wifi analyzer to measure the strength of the signal.
My internet connection is a ADSL 32/1 line, this means I can get download speed of 32Mbit/s and upload speeds of 1Mbit/s.
To have a good range of values different distances to the router were tested.
Here are the results:
Directly beneath the router:
TF Prime:
Ping: 15-25
Download: 20-30Mbit/s
Strength: [-40] - [-52] (shows full reception)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Desire HD:
Ping: ~30
Download: 10-15Mbit/s
Strength: [-40] - [-50] (shows full reception)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One room away, wifi needs to travel through walls:
TF Prime:
Ping: 15-25
Download: 14-24Mbit/s
Strength: [-58] - [-70] (shows 3/4 reception)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Desire HD:
Ping: ~30
Download: 8-12Mbit/s
Strength: [-60] - [-70] (shows full reception)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two rooms away, wifi needs to travel through walls:
TF Prime:
Ping: 15-25
Download: 8-24Mbit/s
Strength: [-65] - [-80] (shows 1/2 reception)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Desire HD:
Ping: ~30
Download: 6-12Mbit/s
Strength: [-70] - [-80] (shows 3/4 reception)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thoughts on the data
One thing I did notice was the rather large fluctuation of the Prime's signal. The signal quality changed a lot even when holding the device still.
This happened to the DHD too, but not as extreme.
Another thing is that the signal quality of the Prime is highly influenced by the direction you hold the device. AnandTech said the same in their review and it seems it's true. Again, my DHD doesn't show this behaviour.
You do have to note, that the Wifi on the Prime was always faster compared to the my phone, so I don't see an issue with the speed.
I could not make a real range test yet, but with the .29 firmware my DHD outperformed the Prime on the Wifi range. The DHD connected to networks which weren't seen by the Prime at all.
I am going to test the range with the new .33 update (which seemed to improve Wifi for me) in the next days.
Another quite heavy point is the not about the Wifi speed in general but more about the usage itself.
Coming from a 1 Ghz singlecore phone, everything is way faster on the Prime, especially the market.
Working with the Android market on the Prime is super painless. Everything opens instantly, no long loading times (almost none at all).
On my phone everything takes ages to load (even things only related to Wifi, like the thumbnails)
So compared to my phone "internet" is way faster on the Prime.
Conclusion
In my opinion the Prime's Wifi is perfectly fine. It may suffer a bit under the metal backplate, but ASUS solved this problem with the second Wifi antenna quite good.
The only thing which we should be concerned about is the range. But I do have to say that Wifi range can be easily tweaked via software (yes this is true)
So maybe we can tweak the range after having custom kernels.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask
Nice post. My results weren't nearly as good as yours. My Prime was somewhat on par with my Galaxy Nexus (still a little slower, though), but got killed by my iPad 1. I'm starting to wonder whether the iPad 1 simply has a beast of a WiFi radio and outperforms other mobile devices. I'll try to post detailed test results when I get a chance.
thanks, good test you ran also. I was gonna say the same thing that even though the signal strength went down as you moved further away, it didn't directly affect the speed of it at all. in fact Prime consistently held faster speed rates. I've noticed the very sensitive fluctuations in wifi signal strength in prime also depending on how you hold it. Regardless this has still never affected the experience or speeds seen going into the Prime. I did a similar test against my ipad1 and yielded similar results. no matter the range or if prime showed a lil weaker signal strength, it didn't affect the download and upload speeds. in fact. even with prime having the weaker signal strength, it still pulled the faster speeds.
glad to hear we will be able to tweak the range through software. also having the dual antennaes could give us a major advantage over the other devices in the end as far as range goes. I did try your one simple test before you mentioned on the wifi switching antennaes things. as I covered both up signal dropped. then covered only one and then the other and so on. so the switching of wifi antennaes does seem to work pretty well. Custom kernels could use all of this to the advantage of Prime.
---------- Post added at 09:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 AM ----------
nyijedi said:
Nice post. My results weren't nearly as good as yours. My Prime was somewhat on par with my Galaxy Nexus (still a little slower, though), but got killed by my iPad 1. I'm starting to wonder whether the iPad 1 simply has a beast of a WiFi radio and outperforms other mobile devices. I'll try to post detailed test results when I get a chance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it may of been you I told of how my ipad1 test comparison was the opposite. that the Prime showed dramatic increase in wifi speeds and was on par with the range, for the most part. what I can say is that Ipad signal strength seemed more stable while Prime was sensitive and fluctuated. regardless though even with a slightly lower signal strength the prime wasn't affected in terms of speed. it still in fact pulled substantial faster speeds than my ipad1 regardless of signal strength. strange but true. you would think with lower signal strength it would affect speeds but it didn't with the Prime.
demandarin said:
thanks, good test you ran also. I was gonna say the same thing that even though the signal strength went down as you moved further away, it didn't directly affect the speed of it at all. in fact Prime consistently held faster speed rates. I've noticed the very sensitive fluctuations in wifi signal strength in prime also depending on how you hold it. Regardless this has still never affected the experience or speeds seen going into the Prime. I did a similar test against my ipad1 and yielded similar results. no matter the range or if prime showed a lil weaker signal strength, it didn't affect the download and upload speeds. in fact. even with prime having the weaker signal strength, it still pulled the faster speeds.
glad to hear we will be able to tweak the range through software. also having the dual antennaes could give us a major advantage over the other devices in the end as far as range goes. I did try your one simple test before you mentioned on the wifi switching antennaes things. as I covered both up signal dropped. then covered only one and then the other and so on. so the switching of wifi antennaes does seem to work pretty well. Custom kernels could use all of this to the advantage of Prime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, I did that too, works wonderfully.
In kernel sources you can adjust up to what reception levels Wifis are still displayed as connectable. We had that problem with a Desire HD update were HTC screwed something so it connected only to way stronger Wifi than before.
Kernel devs fixed this
Issues
I did hear about while reading an article that the prime had issues with its productions models.
one reviewer had 2 before his 3rd finally worked. However im looking forward to testing this beast out come the 12th!
Thanks for making my decision easier
I've done the same test, however with my prime
I get about 20 mbps in the same room as the router
5 mbps one room over
and 2 - 3 mbps max three rooms over, I also often get disconnects in this room.
I can deal with slightly less range, but the speed dropoff was killing me.
Now that I know my unit is obviously defective, I can exchange it for a new unit
If I can get a good unit with results like that I will be satisfied.
When I did some tests on mine, router in living room, Prime on second floor at the furthest point, so probably like 50 feet goign through the floor and a bunch of walls, I was transferring data TO the Prime via FTP at about 2.7MB/sec (Megabytes) That was on .29
movielover76 said:
I've done the same test, however with my prime
I get about 20 mbps in the same room as the router
5 mbps one room over
and 2 - 3 mbps max three rooms over, I also often get disconnects in this room.
I can deal with slightly less range, but the speed dropoff was killing me.
Now that I know my unit is obviously defective, I can exchange it for a new unit
If I can get a good unit with results like that I will be satisfied.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm having the exact same experience as you. However, I'm not so sure that the Prime is "obviously defective" if you have these types of issues. The last thing I want to do is return my brand new device and wait to find a new one, or RMA it and wait to receive a new one, and then still have the same problem.
I wish Asus would say something if they did in fact make a Wifi change since their earliest models. If they'd confirm this, I'd be more than happy to exchange my Prime for another one, but I can't see going through the whole exchange process with no guarantee that I'll see any type of improvement.
EDIT: It appears that those of us noticing issues with the WiFi range don't have defective units. Check out this review, which discussed the speed comparison between a confirmed defective unit and a non-defective one:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5178/an-update-on-transformer-prime-battery-life-wifi-issues
Basically, the defective unit wouldn't pull more than 2 Mbps anywhere. It wasn't strictly a range issue - the thing just was capped at about 2 Mbps. The non-defective unit fixed this cap of 2 Mbps, but still had issues where the device downloaded slower than other devices at a further distance from the router (the example the reviewer used was that his original Transformer would get 34-37 Mbps, while the non-defective Prime would get 10-16 Mbps in the same location).
So for those of you considering exchanging your Prime because of poor WiFi range, I think you'll be disappointed to have the same issue with your replacement.
nyijedi said:
I'm having the exact same experience as you. However, I'm not so sure that the Prime is "obviously defective" if you have these types of issues. The last thing I want to do is return my brand new device and wait to find a new one, or RMA it and wait to receive a new one, and then still have the same problem.
I wish Asus would say something if they did in fact make a Wifi change since their earliest models. If they'd confirm this, I'd be more than happy to exchange my Prime for another one, but I can't see going through the whole exchange process with no guarantee that I'll see any type of improvement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I agree that I can't prove it beyond reasonable doubt, the reality is I live in a fairly small apartment, it can't be more than 30 feet, admittedly through a few walls from my router to my bedroom, every other wireless-n device I get still gets near 20mbps in my bedroom, and other people are reporting much better results and I can't imagine they are in a house or apartment meaningfully smaller than mine.
So the performance is not acceptable when I paid for a premium android tablet, I'll exchange it and hope it gets better, if it doesn't I'll just return it.
A tablet is useless without wifi, I'm willing to accept a little bit of range problems, but Wireless-N speeds at 30 feet max like I'm getting is just not acceptable.
In that article he never mentions still experiencing the sharp drop offs I'm experiencing, and theirs nothing saying that everyone who has wifi issues has exactly the same issue, his first unit was probably preproduction, which would likely have different issues than the production models
Maybe it will fix it maybe it won't but it won't hurt trying. I'd rather take a chance and try to get a better unit.
Diamondback2010 said:
Conclusion
In my opinion the Prime's Wifi is perfectly fine. It may suffer a bit under the metal backplate, but ASUS solved this problem with the second Wifi antenna quite good.
The only thing which we should be concerned about is the range. But I do have to say that Wifi range can be easily tweaked via software (yes this is true)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great review Diamondback! This is almost identical to the results I posted about my Prime WiFi. I had an "early model" in the beginning of December that I traded in for the first shipment at Gamestop and most of the WiFi issues seem fixed. Signal strength fluctuates quite a bit more than my Kindle Fire or iPad. Speeds are about the same or better 90% of the time.
With all the complaints out there about WiFi, I don't know if we were just lucky to get good units or if the complaints are a bit overblown.
movielover76 said:
While I agree that I can't prove it beyond reasonable doubt, the reality is I live in a fairly small apartment, it can't be more than 30 feet, admittedly through a few walls from my router to my bedroom, every other wireless-n device I get still gets near 20mbps in my bedroom, and other people are reporting much better results and I can't imagine they are in a house or apartment meaningfully smaller than mine.
So the performance is not acceptable when I paid for a premium android tablet, I'll exchange it and hope it gets better, if it doesn't I'll just return it.
A tablet is useless without wifi, I'm willing to accept a little bit of range problems, but Wireless-N speeds at 30 feet max like I'm getting is just not acceptable.
In that article he never mentions still experiencing the sharp drop offs I'm experiencing, and theirs nothing saying that everyone who has wifi issues has exactly the same issue, his first unit was probably preproduction, which would likely have different issues than the production models
Maybe it will fix it maybe it won't but it won't hurt trying. I'd rather take a chance and try to get a better unit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear you. Please keep us posted on how the replacement fairs in comparison to your current Prime. I'm sure many of us, including myself, would love to know.
movielover76 said:
I've done the same test, however with my prime
I get about 20 mbps in the same room as the router
5 mbps one room over
and 2 - 3 mbps max three rooms over, I also often get disconnects in this room.
I can deal with slightly less range, but the speed dropoff was killing me.
Now that I know my unit is obviously defective, I can exchange it for a new unit
If I can get a good unit with results like that I will be satisfied.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep in mind there are more variables in your tests than simply signal strength and distance. Have you looked at the channel your router is using? These days - especially in apartments - there is a LOT of traffic on the wireless spectrum. WiFi Analyzer can help you narrow the list of channels to use and through trial and error I was able to pick a channel that improved my performance at a distance by quite a bit. But I live in a high-rise condo so you may not have the same types of issues.
denverbuckeye said:
Keep in mind there are more variables in your tests than simply signal strength and distance. Have you looked at the channel your router is using? These days - especially in apartments - there is a LOT of traffic on the wireless spectrum. WiFi Analyzer can help you narrow the list of channels to use and through trial and error I was able to pick a channel that improved my performance at a distance by quite a bit. But I live in a high-rise condo so you may not have the same types of issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a good point, as I also live in an apartment complex with a decent amount of wireless traffic.
However, if you have 4 different devices at the same location, and 3 of them pull comparable speeds while one of them (e.g., the Prime) pulls much lesser speeds, doesn't that suggest the problem is more with the Prime than with your network settings?
Also, when traveling, one doesn't have the ability to tweak network settings, so the Prime's weak WiFi is more problematic in this type of situation.
Sorry if I come off as *****ing here. I love my Prime and I'll be keeping it despite its WiFi shortcomings, but it obviously does irk me a little bit.
A little tip for all of you with issues. What about trying another Wifi channel?
"Wifi Analyzer" has a great feature where it shows you which channels are crowded and which are mostly free.
This way you can find a channel with the least interferecens by other Wifis.
Have a look here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1420886&highlight=wifi&page=3
Also take into consideration, that you compare the brand new device and first of a new kind of devices, with others that already had 10-15 updates.
Also make sure you are testing in an "clean" or at least not changing environment. So if on of your neighbours is doing a large file transfer on an neighboring channel during your tests you will see a massive impact on your tansfer-rates.
So far i can say the general WIFI is stable and fast, only the coverage seems to be a bit low compared to other devices. But hey it is an 11n capable device that could in theory be fine tuned to very good reception depending on what features are already used and what not. But i was not able to get any info on what antennas are inside, where they are, what chip is used etc. Any infos on that?
this is all good and dandy now go test this again with Bluetooth enabled and a headset or bt headphone paired.
the_game_master said:
this is all good and dandy now go test this again with Bluetooth enabled and a headset or bt headphone paired.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just now realized this is probably why my speedtest significantly improved because I turned off Bluetooth sure enough that is why.....
OP. Load up some songs in Google Music, play them over bluetooth while you do these tests and post those results.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1423180
nyijedi said:
This is a good point, as I also live in an apartment complex with a decent amount of wireless traffic.
However, if you have 4 different devices at the same location, and 3 of them pull comparable speeds while one of them (e.g., the Prime) pulls much lesser speeds, doesn't that suggest the problem is more with the Prime than with your network settings?
Also, when traveling, one doesn't have the ability to tweak network settings, so the Prime's weak WiFi is more problematic in this type of situation.
Sorry if I come off as *****ing here. I love my Prime and I'll be keeping it despite its WiFi shortcomings, but it obviously does irk me a little bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always use wifi analyzer when setting up my network and it's configured for the clearest channel available, I know that part of my situation isn't ideal, I can see 7 aps from my laptop right now, but most are on channel one, two on channel 6 (one that's the apartment right underneath me) and I'm on channel 11 which only has one other ap and it's very weak.
Like you said I think the fact that other devices gets better speeds points clearly to the problem being with the primes Wifi, maybe it doesn't handle interference as well as other wifi devices and others have less interference in their tests, which could explain the higher speeds they get.
<B>Update:</B>
Well I took a $14 gamble ( the cost of shipment back to newegg ) for a RMA replacement, hopefully the next unit will work better, I'll put up an update when I get it back, assuming they can get a replacement and don't just refund my money.
At least if I get it back and get the same performance I'll know for sure it's a limitation of the device and not my particular device being defective, I'm a little OCD so that would drive me nuts not knowing as it has the past week lol.
I think another thing everyone should be testing is wifi stability, not just raw speed at a given moment. open wifi analyzer on the prime and another device, go to the signal meter, and compare how long each device can hold onto the signal. In a few videos I've seen where people do this the other device is very stable, but several times a minute the prime's needle goes momentarily to 0, even though they started at similar levels.
I just received my tf prime today and thought I would run it through some tests. First, here are my initial impressions:
I love the slim profile, weight, and the new IPS display. There is a HINT of backlight bleed on the edge...but barely noticeable. My wife couldn't see it even in a darkened room. My original TF101 is far worse for this (even after returning several units and settling for a decent one). Super IPS notched the screen up brighter than my TF101.
The speed increase is noticeable from the tf101 in practically every sense from the keyboard input, swipes, performance even with animated wallpaper, etc. Games from cordy to glowall and riptide fly on this device.
WIFI TESTS:
After all the talk on wifi/BT performance I thought I would run a test with an ipad 1, TF101, and TF201. All tests were done using speedtest app connected to the same server. I repeated a few times and at different orientations of the devices to try to get an optimal result:
Note that my TF101 is rooted and I am using AR2.3 rom found here. The ipad 1 and the Tf201 are stock.
Reference: my wired desktop gets DL: 30 Mbps down and 0.55 Mbps up from my ISP. All the following are in Mbps:
At 15 feet from router, no walls:
TF101 24.767 0.548
TF201 24.494 0.534
IPAD 1 17.71 0.48
At 30ft, 2 walls:
TF101 20.752 0.55
TF201 16.269 0.55
ipad1 19.57 0.48
At 60ft, 3 walls
TF101 18.372 0.55
TF201 5.023 0.55
ipad1 4.98 0.48
Notes:
Tf101...the original TF is clearly the winner...and I should add that this device tested highest and was also the most consistent in the testing.
TF201 and IPAD...pretty close in performance to the ipad 1. I should note that especially when farther away from the router, the TF and the IPAD1 showed considerable variation depending on the orientation of the device. These results represent the best of the most consistent results I could produce.
I tried a higher band (5.8 GHz) on the ipad, but it produced worse results farther away and did no better close up.
Conclusion:
I need to do more testing to be sure, but if the TF201 can match the IPad 1 then I will be satisfied as the ipad has never disappointed when I travel with it, etc.
Update
I managed to tweak Plex to show video output on the Prime. I then did a streaming test with the TF101, Ipad 1, and TF201 streaming a 1080p 12 GB high profile video transcoded using plex. I set up plex to stream at 8Mbps which is the highest setting for LAN. All three will playback flawlessly since Plex uses my server to transcode the video file before streaming to the device.
Results:
1. All three streamed perfectly in the same room as the router...up to ~20ft away and around the corner.
2. Greater than 20 feet both the ipad and the prime start getting choppy...unwatchable at 50 feet through two-three walls unless the bitrate is tuned down to 4Mbps or less.
3. The TF101 keeps the 8Mbps quality with no stuttering regardless of orientation/distance/walls within my house.
Pretty much consistent with my first test. TF101 shines for wifi performance and the TF201 is par with the ipad 1.
I tested Netflix streaming HD...the Max bit rate is 4.8 mbps.
60 ft and 1 floor down from the router. The prime doesn't miss a beat. No stuttering or artifacting and the quality was maintained compared to right next to the router.
I would say that the wifi performance (with bt off anyway) is a non issue on my prime. Sure its not up to the standard of my tf101...but neither is my Ipad or my Toshiba laptop.
These results among others make me think there really is something up with my otherwise flawless prime. I have 30/5 Comcast cable and all my devices connect wirelessly (laptop, desktop, phone, prime). My phone has never done so well, but my laptop and desktop can peg speedtest at 30/5. On the prime I have NEVER seen better than 13/4. I did a bunch more testing tonight after resetting my router (and playing with channels) and my results seem unaffected.
TF201 | XDA Premium
Great tests! Thanks for the information!
tdrussell said:
. On the prime I have NEVER seen better than 13/4. I did a bunch more testing tonight after resetting my router (and playing with channels) and my results seem unaffected.
TF201 | XDA Premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My router is a dlink DIR-825...I'm not sure if that matters. You could also try re-orienting the router antenna. 13/4 isn't horrible but you should be getting better.
I have run several other speed tests since. The results are consistent with my OP. Anywhere up to ~20ft from my router gives 20-25Mbps DL and 0.5Mbps upload on my 30/0.5 line with the prime.
I get 4-6/0.5 at the farthest reaches of the house (up to 60ft away on another floor)
I even tried it outside in my car ~70 feet away with the doors closed and scored a respectable 1.2Mbps/0.5Mbps. I am very happy.
My laptop scores 25/0.5 close and 10/0.5 long at 60ft in another room. The TF101 takes the cake though at long range scoring from 16-20/0.5 at 60ft and seems to have an excellent antenna.
Next I am going to try attaching a larger antenna (if I can find it) to the router and re-testing at long range. I will post the result here.
Tomorrow I will have a chance to bring my prime to work and speedtest on the network there which has much higher possible Download/Upload values (depending on the traffic). I will compare it with my laptop as a reference.
Just tested my wifi at work.
laptop: 13.85/12.86 (DL/UPL)
Prime: 9.9/13.5
Notes: I suspect the differences are bandwidth related from our work network which varies significantly with usage rather than any differences in performance when you think about these numbers.
Conclusion: I am getting similar performance from the prime as my toshiba laptop at work. I am not sure where the routers are...they are hidden behind the ceiling tiles.
I just completed a second test at lunch break where the bandwidth should be higher.
Laptop: 10.98/11.07 (DL/UPL)
Prime: 12.9/14.416
These tests were done within a minute of each other and from the same location.
As I said earlier, the differences are likely on the network side and I am getting pretty much par performance from the wifi.
I'll have to return mine for another.
30ft 2 walls
Prime 3.5 dl 4.2 ul
Ipad2 23.6 dl 7.1 ul
Did numerous tests and that's where I use the tablet the most.
Lite matter said:
I'll have to return mine for another.
30ft 2 walls
Prime 3.5 dl 4.2 ul
Ipad2 23.6 dl 7.1 ul
Did numerous tests and that's where I use the tablet the most.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How are your Prime's speeds when close to the router? Do you get 15-20 Mbps? If so, I doubt you have a defective Prime. I've done extensive testing with my Prime's wifi on a number of networks, and have come to realize that the Prime's WiFi is fast w/ a strong signal, but can go down to 3-8 Mbps when at a distance, while my iPad maintains a connection at about 16-20 Mbps. Also, interference seems to play a big issue. That is, the Prime seems to take a decent speed drop if there are a few wireless networks w/in range - more so than other devices.
well i did some test with my tfp vs my laptop 5 feet i got 22mbps down and 8mbps up on both laptop and tfp
at 30 feet out side with a wall my laptop was 13mbps and 3.6mbps while the tfp was 18mbps and 4mbps
havnet had any issue with the tfp wifi yet
nyijedi said:
How are your Prime's speeds when close to the router? Do you get 15-20 Mbps? If so, I doubt you have a defective Prime. I've done extensive testing with my Prime's wifi on a number of networks, and have come to realize that the Prime's WiFi is fast w/ a strong signal, but can go down to 3-8 Mbps when at a distance, while my iPad maintains a connection at about 16-20 Mbps. Also, interference seems to play a big issue. That is, the Prime seems to take a decent speed drop if there are a few wireless networks w/in range - more so than other devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does fine in the room with the router 20-22 dl and around 6.4 ul. Once you get to that 25 -30ft it plummets. My nook tablet averages 19 dl at the same 30 ft. So you think this is a defective prime or just something they all have due to the back panel? Id understand if it was happening to everyone but from what others have said they have primes that are hitting 20 dl at 30 ft and everythings fine.
I have a WNDAP360 WAP installed in the attic, so we only have to go through 1 layer of sheetrock.
The TF101 - Over 29Mbps
The TF201 - Over 19Mbps
This is precisely why I'm returning my TF201 until such time they can make it AT LEAST match the perf of the TF101
Tested it yesterday and this morning and wouldn't get passed 3.5 dl. Now in the same spot it seems to be all over the place. Anywhere from 11 - 19 dl. Seems to be hitting 17 the most though which i can live with. I'll make sure to do more tests over a longer period of time before posting next time.
Lite matter said:
It does fine in the room with the router 20-22 dl and around 6.4 ul. Once you get to that 25 -30ft it plummets. My nook tablet averages 19 dl at the same 30 ft. So you think this is a defective prime or just something they all have due to the back panel? Id understand if it was happening to everyone but from what others have said they have primes that are hitting 20 dl at 30 ft and everythings fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suffer from the exact same thing. I'm pretty sure this is how all Primes are, and the people that are hitting 20 Mbps at 30 ft either:
1) Don't have many thick walls or obstructions in the way,
2) Don't have any other wireless networks interfering, or
3) Don't know how far 30 feet really is.
nyijedi said:
I suffer from the exact same thing. I'm pretty sure this is how all Primes are, and the people that are hitting 20 Mbps at 30 ft either:
1) Don't have many thick walls or obstructions in the way,
2) Don't have any other wireless networks interfering, or
3) Don't know how far 30 feet really is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have other wireless networks in our area (save the neighbour's over 100 feet from our outside wall). I actually measured off the distances in my OP. Not sure that it would make much difference since it should affect the devices performance equally.
As for the walls, I have 2x4 sheetrock walls. My 30 foot test has two of them plus a bookshelf in between.
The 30 feet is actually 28 feet measured. The OP tests have been repeated with similar results. For some reason the ipad1 gets a slightly better result in that location only.
16Mbps for the prime at that distance compared to the 20 for the TF101 is not too shabby....especially when you consider that the TF101 really set the bar in all of my tests.
I won't be returning my prime anymore than I would be returning my laptop or Ipad 1 for not scoring as high on a wifi shootout as the TF101.
I posted this elsewhere, but the data belongs here:
A WIFI+BT test:
Setup:
I paired the prime with a motorola BT audio streamer that I use to stream from portable devices to a stereo system. I watched ~20 minutes of HD streaming from youtube and netflix. Then I ran a speed test with and without BT and compared with TF101 and IPAD1 at the same location.
results:
1. The first time I played back a youtube video it stopped and started. I thought I had a problem. Then I tried two other files from youtube (both 1080p HD) that streamed flawlessly (~5 minutes a piece)...with the audio output to stereo over BT. Then I let it stream 10 minutes of netflix HD with audio to BT as before. All of it flawless at ~20 feet from router in the same room
2. Speedtests: (DL posted only..UPL is always ~0.5Mbps with my ISP)
TF101: 23.4 Mbps
IPAD 1: 19 Mbps
TF201 +BT: 18.4Mbps
TF201 BT OFF: 17.4Mbps
Update
I have found that setting my wifi to ch5 produces the optimal range...though this could be a function of my environment. It actually improved for just about all my devices.
I Aldo tried 'g mode only'...this neither improved nor weakened my wifi test results.
I tried bt audio and streaming video for 30 minutes without issue. I did notice that bt audio plus wifi with splashtop video streaming produces out of sync audio on my tf101, tf201 and ipad1...seems like a splashtop issue.
On another note the prime produced a wifi free GPS lock in 30 seconds inside my house today. Its my first GPS test post update to ics
Recent lurker and noob poster to forum... I got the prime, now I'm trying to address WiFi. I have a theory on what may be a key factor based on what everyone knows already.
The antenna/case design may be affecting TX signal so data link negotiates to lower speed. The Prime's RX signal can be excellent, but depending on the environment, a link speed may drop to 1-2 or 5mbps in very adverse conditions.
I work with Cisco 1230 and 1240 series APs in a micro-cell design at lowest or 2nd lowest power settings. Autonomously micro-managed in a corporate environment. All APs must be approved by me, so we minimize rogue APs. Tethering is not permitted in the facilities.
I consistently get at least 18mbps negotiated link with a fair signal(-75dB). I use an intranet perfSONAR Network Diagnostic Tool site for our school to test network throughput and have gig & 10g links for our facility to the hosted NDT. Testing results are consistent and reproducible. No other AP signals adversely affecting our wireless system.
In my office, AP RX shows Prime with -75dBm(22 dB s/n) linked at 36mbps.
iPhone 4 with -62dBm(36 dB s/n) linked at 54mbps.
'show dot11 associations all-client' command
At home, I used a E3000 and now (4) E4200 in AP(bridge) mode. Channel spaced using 1,6,11 on 2.4(20 or 40 bandwidth) and similarly spread out at 5GHz for N only. I tested BG and mixed N on 2.4 with similar results. I use my local ISPs hosted OOKLA test site. I may try iPerf running on my gaming PC, but suspect it will be a waste of time.
In my adverse home environment using only a E3000, I need to be next to the AP to consistently link at anything higher than 5mpbs, even with excellent signal strength. I may initially negotiate 54mbps or higher, but as traffic increases under usage, the device re-negotiate link speed down to as low as 1-2 mpbs. If I maintain close proximity to the AP with excellent RX signal, negotiated link doesn't taper off as much.
As an experiement, I bought (1), then (3) more E4200v2 and spaced them out in my 2-story house. Now, I consistently get 18mbps and higher within 3 walls of the nearest E4200 AP. Prior, I drop down to 1-2 or 5mpbs with the E3000 or single E4200 when any distance(1 wall or greater) away from the AP. Consumer based APs are quite limited in diagnostic features so cannot determine AP RX level from device.
My house is surrounded by APs in a planned community so wifi environment is cluttered and quite hostile. I had no problems with my other devices negotiating and maintainng good link speed using 2.4(BG) with my E3000.
They include:
iPhone 3GS, 4, and 4S
iPad 2
Macbook 13"(2006) bootcamp XP Pro(Etherpeek)
Macbook Pro 13 (2010) bootcamp Win 7 Pro
Macbook Pro 15"(2006) bootcamp XP Pro(Omnipeek)
Mac Mini (2010) bootcamp Win 7 Pro
Asus Eee Book 3015PN Win 7 Pro
We'll be migrating from Cisco to Aruba 135s using an M3 controller and A.R.M. and I'll see what happens with this new infrastructure. I mentioned my testing methodology to Asus tier 1 support and they advised me to send in the unit for testing. I bought this for an overseas trip and will need to live with the issues until I return. After I get back, I'll be sending my unit in and hope they modify "something" to improve signal.
Overall, I like the Prime, but we'll see how it holds up in wifi hotspots on my trip. With my (4) APs, I can reliably stream HD to my Prime throughout the house and ouside in the yard with minimal breakup.
Anyone else see similar results to back up this theory?
Great info....thanks for the insight with your experience to back it up. Very interesting info. I have a netgear router issued by Comcast for high speed wireless. No PC hooked up to it to adjust settings or anything. PRIME works great with it and I have no problems connecting or maintaining high speeds. Even as i go further away from router. It simply just works plus prime has no problem connecting to other peoples networks or my ad hoc wifi tether from my Atrix4g.
There's wifi all over the island, there's a service but I'm sure where ever your staying there will be WIFI
>Anyone else see similar results to back up this theory?
What theory, that your speed drop is tied to excessive downgrade in negotiated link speed? Have you tried using DD-WRT on one of the routers, go into Adv Wireless, and lock the speed to a fixed rate? Have you tried using just one 4200v2 as replacement for the old 3000 or 4200(v1)?
You have multiple variables in your setup change-over, and should test to isolate cause of improvement.
>I mentioned my testing methodology to Asus tier 1 support and they advised me to send in the unit for testing.
Seriously, do you expect frontline CS grunts to actually know anything about RF testing? If they did, they wouldn't be in CS. Of course they'll tell you to send it in.
David522d said:
There's wifi all over the island, there's a service but I'm sure where ever your staying there will be WIFI
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tether to my iPhone in my home State. I'll be traveling to Spain next month. Found minimal wifi hotspots in Greece and Italy last year. Glad AT&T re-packaged their international data block plans. Last year, it outrageous. Plans are exponentially better, but not great.
Was disappointed when I could not reliable stream HD video to my Prime at home when my iPhone, Wife's iPad, and my netbook worked fine.
e.mote;23048838
What theory said:
I believe the antenna design is negatively affecting the TX signal output. When you introduce this design into an environment with at least 8-10 APs in the surrounding area, RFI affects the Prime's ability to maintain a stable negotiated high speed link, thus forcing it to auto-negotiate down to lower speeds, even when RX signal is good(-50 to -60).
I left out a lot of detail about my testing. No DD-WRT for E4200V2s. I tried one V2 replacing the E3000. Then, I setup a micro-cell using "bridge" mode with four V2s. I have it connected to my ASA5505 firewall through a gig switch at home.
Negotiated link speed does not vary using Cisco AP1230 and AP1240s. I can see a significat RX signal strength difference(13dB) between my iPhone4 and Prime on my desk(6" apart) with my door closed. Prime appears to have a more stable, higher negotiated link speed at lower signal strength in a controlled wireless environment.
I didn't want to force static link speed since errors, retransmit/retries cannot be monitored at home. You can manually browse to the advanced tab on E4200v2, but wanted to see how the prime negotiates link speed in different physical settings. If you used 8-conductor telephone wire for gig. Auto detect will negotiate gig with the presence of 8-wires, but split pairs and poor cabling will cause far/near-end crosstalk, frame errors, retransmits and snow ball when data is pushed. I cannot account for that with the tools on the Prime or the E4200v2.
The wireless protocol should negotiate a stable speed based on RX & TX. I could not see a stable link speed above 5mpbs at 2-3 walls distance. Many times, it would be at the "1-2" setting on the Prime. I would stream HD content from my NAS or slingbox and see breakup, video quality reduction. I just need to do one web-based OOKLA test and link speed drops down to 1-2 or 5 from 54 or above after initially turning on wifi. If I'm within 15' line of sight or 10'(w/1 wall), link speed was stable and network test/video worked fine. I typically would max out my RR ISP rate if I'm near the AP. If I moved further away, I would still see a good signal level, but link speed drops and performance slows.
I added (4) APs based on strategic locations and got my sitting areas to be ~20dBs higher than my neighbors AP, then my Prime's negotiated link speed would never drop below 18 mpbs.
During this testing, I'd be using inSSIDer and watching my link speed/performance on my laptop and comparing with Prime. I would change between balance and performance mode just in case power saving may reduce wifi performance. I had no wifi problems with my laptops in my home.
I should buy a compatible wireless NIC for Omnipeek, but may not need it since we're moving towards active radio management for the Aruba's. (4) APs was a little over-the-top for home, but cheaper than enterprise grade equipment. Just to get Prime a stable wireless signal... The 4 E4200V2 is still under 45-day return for Silver reward at best buy. I may just keep it since (4) APs help 5GHz performance. Sometimes I get lazy plugging into the house network.
I know what to expect from consumer based customer support. Especially tier1 and their supposed tier2. I am trying to do my due deligence and hopefully I encounter a helpful Asus rep that will help me out in some form or fashion, instead of brushing me off.
I'd like to know if anyone that experiences wifi problems has checked their link speed and is aware of the surrounding RF environment. Signal reduction is known, but the negotiated link speed may be not be obvious. You need to tap the wifi profile to see it or check the AP if it has viewable stats.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its been said many times but ill say it again. Prime hits deadspot on any router before other WiFi devices so regardless of what else is at play the aluminum backing has something to do with degrading the signal.
>I believe the antenna design is negatively affecting the TX signal output.
I don't follow. It's either a hardware or firmware problem. If it's antenna, it's HW. If it's faulty link rate negotiation, it's FW.
If HW, the Prime uses the same PIFA design as was in the TF101 and many other tablets/phones. One difference is that it has an aux ant, which reportedly was added after the fact to make up for the perf deficit. In lieu of contradicting data, per Occam's Razor you should opt for known evidence, which is interference from the metal back and/or marginal connection.
If FW, one way to ascertain is to try CM9 when that's available. You would need to obviate the manuf warranty to unlock bootloader, but that shouldn't be a problem as long as you're still within the retailer's return period.
Either way, the issue isn't really user-fixable. Your 4 APs may work for your home, but not elsewhere. CM9 for Prime AFAIK is still in alpha, and won't be fit for daily use until well after your return period.
>When you introduce this design into an environment with at least 8-10 APs in the surrounding area, RFI affects the Prime's ability to maintain a stable negotiated high speed link, thus forcing it to auto-negotiate down to lower speeds, even when RX signal is good
>I added (4) APs based on strategic locations and got my sitting areas to be ~20dBs higher than my neighbors AP, then my Prime's negotiated link speed would never drop below 18 mpbs.
I don't see how this is different than simply saying "Prime has weak wifi reception, and boosting signal from the router end makes it receive better." Even if partial fault lies with link negotiation as you imply, unless you can change the FW, it's not user-fixable.
Asus has been surprisingly open about this whole affair (to its detriment). If it says that the metal back is the main cause, plus some "manufacturing errors," I'd believe it.
>I didn't want to force static link speed since errors, retransmit/retries cannot be monitored at home.
Again, I don't follow. Why would you need to monitor the minutiae to lock the rate? The main concern is throughput. If you get good throughput with a fixed rate, then your theory is borne out. If not, then not.
BTW, spending $800 for 4 E4200v2's just to get better wifi for the Prime is a little extreme. Have you tried cranking up the E3000's power output, in lieu of the additional APs? Stock FW won't allow it, but E3000 can use DD-WRT/Tomato, which will. Another option is using CPE-grade high-gain omnis, one for each floor.
I wouldn't call support for a wifi problem, other than to get RMA. No matter how knowledgeable the tech, there is no way to troubleshoot wifi over the phone, given vagaries of layout and equipment.
IMO, "due diligence" would be to buy a product that fits your need. If the need is to use a tablet for traveling, then wifi performance should have highest priority. The Prime doesn't fill that need.
Ever since I got this phone a month after it was release I've had odd problems with WIFI at home.
I have a Linksys WRT350N running DD-WRT.
As soon as got the phone the WIFI/Router would get sluggish and hang.
Sometimes I'd see the phone looping. Connecting and losing connection.
Reboot the router and all was fine for a few days.
Finally I spent some time sorting it out.
I had it on Channel 6 (default) but I had TurboBoost (not sure why) on and I had 40Mhz bandwidth which can speed things up but can be more prone to interference.
Finally I gave up on the speed and turned off turboboost, put it on the normal 20Mhz and found the cleanest channel (channel 1).
Everything ran perfect now. Except the phone. It was sucking battery like crazy. Normally I'd have half the battery left by bed time. I could go 2 days in a pinch.
Now by 8PM it was beeping because battery was critically low.
So I tried Channel 11.
Now the phone is fine. It's 8PM and I still have 92% (it was a light day) but before it didn't matter how much I used it.
In summary:
Router is pretty much default and on channel 11, Good battery and stable.
Router is pretty much default and on Channel 1 it suck battery and stable.
Router tweaked for bandwidth on wireless N on Channel 6. Good Battery (sometimes, very unstable)
I'm not saying some this isn't the routers fault, but the only change I last made on the router was from channel 1 to 11. And that made a night and day difference in battery.
Perhaps there was interference in channel 1 that made the phone work harder.
Channel 6 might be fine too, I did not try it again with Turbo-Off and 20Mhz bandwidth since it's all working I'll leave well enough alone.
I'm running cleanrom 2.9.5 (I've run various versions of clean rom most of the time I've had it).
Is that a dual band router 2.4 and 5 if it is turn off 5 ghz I had similar problem on my dlink 655 as well turning off 5 solved problem
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
I've searched and saw a bunch of BS about this option.
Here's what I've found.
1. When you turn it on, it's beats your battery. About 4% battery drain per hour vs >1% for normal wifi from what I've seen.
2. It doesn't make your wifi 'faster'
3. What it does do, it fixes the wifi disconnect issue.
#3 expanded. Some EVOLTEs(maybe all) drop wifi when you're far away from the access point. For me it takes just being downstairs to get drops.
If I'm in the same room as the AP, no drops, don't need this option. If I'm far away from the AP and I'm playing an online game and I keep getting kicked, this option will fix that. If I had to guess at what this option does, it must turn up the broadcast strength of the wireless card.
What I've done is I made a shortcut to the wifi settings menu. 2 clicks to turn it on and off.
Turn it on when needed, off when done.
If someone made a widget for it, that would be badass.
I've found just the opposite, it actually makes my disconnect issue worse.
Found this out myself about a week ago. Fixes my issues as well.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
I had that turned on for a while because it sounded pretty harmless but it KILLED my battery life. I couldn't figure out where this huge drain was coming from, I would be losing an extra 20% throughout the day and 10-15% overnight. I suppose if you're really having wifi issues it would be worth it, but IMO I would download Wifi Analyzer and see if you're having interference issues and change the wifi channel.
Toast95135 said:
IMO I would download Wifi Analyzer and see if you're having interference issues and change the wifi channel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 That's what I did and found the default channel 6 to be super crowded. I moved to channel 9 (most unused for me) and ALL my wifi issues, not just my phone, went away.
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
Toast95135 said:
IMO I would download Wifi Analyzer and see if you're having interference issues and change the wifi channel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Toast95135, thank you for the info on this app. This fixed all my WiFi issues in my house too. I thought that mine was sharing a lot of channels with the neighbors. I was sharing the same channel with about 3 of my neighbors. No wonder I was having so many issues. My WiFi is also a lot faster.
Thanks again! I hit the ty button too. I wish I knew of this app about a year ago. :good:
.jond said:
I've searched and saw a bunch of BS about this option.
Here's what I've found.
1. When you turn it on, it's beats your battery. About 4% battery drain per hour vs >1% for normal wifi from what I've seen.
2. It doesn't make your wifi 'faster'
3. What it does do, it fixes the wifi disconnect issue.
#3 expanded. Some EVOLTEs(maybe all) drop wifi when you're far away from the access point. For me it takes just being downstairs to get drops.
If I'm in the same room as the AP, no drops, don't need this option. If I'm far away from the AP and I'm playing an online game and I keep getting kicked, this option will fix that. If I had to guess at what this option does, it must turn up the broadcast strength of the wireless card.
What I've done is I made a shortcut to the wifi settings menu. 2 clicks to turn it on and off.
Turn it on when needed, off when done.
If someone made a widget for it, that would be badass.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From my own research I found that changing the wifi frequency to 2.4 ghz fixes the disconnects.
Sent from my EVO