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I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.
-McMex
Amen to that! could not agree with you more....
the problem is that flashing ROMs are too easy now, the tools are too useful, and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.
P1Tater said:
Here's the issue with XDA lately and it's not just this thread that it's happening. The problem is that everyone reports a bug but noone tries to assist in fixing it. Everyone expects the cook to be all-knowing and be able to fix himself. However, these people have lives as well. They have families and jobs and don't have 24 hours in a day to just sit here on the thread and wait for people to report bugs so they have something to do. So, everyone complains, cries and whines about their issues and never once says what apps they have installed, uninstalled, what regs they have changed or files they have added or deleted and then wonder why the chef doesn't have the issue and why he can't fix it. Then when the chef gets upset. Then, when they do get upset then the "Thank You's" come. Did it ever occur to anyone to thank the chef when the rom worked? No, when it works you don't post and when it doesn't work you post complaints. I wonder why the chef's get upset . Just think about it.
What should happen is if it works, thank the chef or contribute. Damn, even a Thank You goes a long way. If you are having issues, maybe just maybe, report the issue, what you have tried, whatt apps you have installed and what you have uninstalled. Ususally when a chef cooks a rom, they don't install apps to the rom because everything they use is cooked in. Believe it or not, some apps will absolutely kill a rom.
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This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
Agree
I agree with this partly although I'm not sure this is the right place to post it.
Its a free forum and in its nature you will nearly always get this type of thing.
Yes it does burn out alot of the chef's but they also have lives that take on different directions as time moves on and so they come and go.
The bug reporting with no solution must be really pissing our chefs off and it is not just for roms.. I'm seeing it with software enhancements too.
At its core this is still by far the best forum for our devices. I believe XDA has always developed the best ROMS & enhancements for our devices and often take them to places the original manufacturers would never have dreamed of.
I just don't know how something like this can be policed. Nearly all the guys post in their first post something about not asking dumb questions but yet they still get them.
The ones that really piss me off are something like "Just flashed and now blah won't work" with absolutely no details at all.
What I do is leave the 'dumb questions' to the other users of my ROM to answer.. I find the userbase to be generally savvy enough to answer its own questions
The ones that I feel the userbase will not be able to answer easily or in a timely fashion, I post an answer for
It's not that I wouldn't like to have the time to sit there and answer all the 'dumb questions', but my time is better spent doing other things.. and the users don't seem to mind helping each other generally, when it's within their knowledge..
Then again my ROM is a little more hands-on than others, so i've already eliminated a good amount of the 'newbies' by it not being quite so easy to flash
mcmexican said:
I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.
-McMex
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P1Tater said:
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.
Originally Posted by P1Tater
Here's the issue with XDA lately and it's not just this thread that it's happening. The problem is that everyone reports a bug but noone tries to assist in fixing it. Everyone expects the cook to be all-knowing and be able to fix himself. However, these people have lives as well. They have families and jobs and don't have 24 hours in a day to just sit here on the thread and wait for people to report bugs so they have something to do. So, everyone complains, cries and whines about their issues and never once says what apps they have installed, uninstalled, what regs they have changed or files they have added or deleted and then wonder why the chef doesn't have the issue and why he can't fix it. Then when the chef gets upset. Then, when they do get upset then the "Thank You's" come. Did it ever occur to anyone to thank the chef when the rom worked? No, when it works you don't post and when it doesn't work you post complaints. I wonder why the chef's get upset . Just think about it.
What should happen is if it works, thank the chef or contribute. Damn, even a Thank You goes a long way. If you are having issues, maybe just maybe, report the issue, what you have tried, whatt apps you have installed and what you have uninstalled. Ususally when a chef cooks a rom, they don't install apps to the rom because everything they use is cooked in. Believe it or not, some apps will absolutely kill a rom.
This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
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I absolutely agree. Both of these posts describe the reality of the situation. Back in the wizard days for the most part only people pushing the edge of technology bought the windows mobile PDA phones. The same appled to the hermes for the most part. When I moved to the tilt the tides began to turn. Prices of this type of phone began to be more reasonable based upon the technology. More and more companies bagan pushing mail. The internet became more of a requirement than a novelty. Less and less tech savy users began to purchase. These buyers soon learned winmo had a ton of flaws and came to xda. Some spent the time to learn and have become valuable members of the forum. Many did not. They pop in and want us to be the fix all for thier issues. One prime example is GSleon3. How many tilts did he unbrick for people carelessly flashing tilts. When the Fuze arrived the problem only grew. Ive seen more new members in the last 3 months than my entire time on xda. A few of the new members have really taken the time to learn and contribute. MANY have not. I get at least 15 posts a day in my thread asking questions that are answered multiple times in the thread. I get at least 30 posts per day that could easily be answered in at least 1 thread on xda if not dozens.
Most of the chefs in this forum are pushing the limits with cutting edge builds. Da_G has more or less led the way. It amazes me how many users think everything should work perfectly. With all the easy kitchens and premade OEMs so many people think making a good stable rom is easy.
I commend Da_G on pushing the cooking aspect. Hopefully more will realize its not as easy as they think. Ive been at this for years and I learn something new every day.
Over the past month I have grown more and more discouraged. If rom users would spend that extra few minutes to find a fix I could do so much more.
I do however want to thank all of those that have searched, that have, helped,that have answered questions and have done so much to make mine and other chefs roms better
While I do agree with all of what has been stated, and myself to be considered a "NOOB", I really think it comes down to the individual user. I may have asked a question or two (or 30) that may have been answered already before, but I personally try to search and I do try to find the answers myself when I can. I do try and figure the answers myself, but I just don't have the expertise to do so quite often. But myself, I try to make up for my lack of capabilities by way of PayPal to our grear chefs. Others don't truly understand the amount of work that goes into the cooking of ROMS, I am BARELY tapping into that now. I have been visiting XDA for quite some time now and have seen it grow. Unfortunately the user base has grown very large, and it is hard to manage the forums. With there being so many places to find information in this website, it takes time just to locate the information you need. Sadly, I don't see much change unless you start locking down the members capabilities to post, which would defeat the whole purpose of a community forum. As far as it is for the ROM Chefs, a suggestion for you would to not publicly post your ROMs (except in the case of the kitchens, don't do that, I'm addicted!) right away. Maybe put a password on them upon download and have some filtering system or something and maybe only release the password selectively or something. And have a guideline for posters, like your post must contain this: and if the post doesn't have that, then don't even bother responding. Let's face it, we techies with out the tech knowledge are at the mercy of the chefs!
Site is free but maybe some type of short ban on posting for spammer and those who bug chef after three strikes or so by senior member. A chef doesnt cook for just one person he cooks to what you may like. If you dont like a chef rom try another or just go back to dead stock rom bug your carrier. But my idea might be to much work.
Idea
Radimus said:
and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
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Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.
The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
The reason why there is so many nOObs posting is that the Raphael has had such a tremendous success at the carrier level. Almost all of the US carriers have picked up the Touch Pro. So it is very reasonable to surmize that the majority of new users are new to windows mobile and completely blown away by the amazing amount of tweaks available for it.
Maybe the best idea is create special forums designed for Senior Members only to comment in. They would be locked to all others to comment on, but visible for all to see. Then create another set of forums for general discussion. I see absolutely no reason a development forum should be open to all anyway. I often think if I read one more "Downloading now!" post I will scream! So again, I would lock just the development and hacking forums to approved members, or at least make all posts be moderated first before they are posted. That will keep the development threads clean.
I would then load up the non development discussion forums and threads with adwords and advertising and give that money back to the real developers. LEt the nOObs pay for development indirectly through advertising.
sammypwns said:
Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.
The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
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Is this post really necessary?
Anyway,
I agree with McMex about the types of post but part of the problem is the organization of the information. Idea for you, Subdivide the forum so that the Cooked ROMs could have their own POST that was a sticky and only limited to the Chef for editing (containing information about updates and revisions etc,...). Then maybe create another post for ISSUES ONLY with the Cooked ROM. And then one more for the nonsense that burdens the Chef or other users like me who try and shift through the countless meaningless post by the "can you fix..." crew. This might help keep the organization of the VALUABLE information contained in this forum.
I use XDA to help me stay up on the latest stuff so I can impress the boss and his co-horts into believing that I am a technical wiz (ha!).
Anyway, this is a bit disorganized and polluted but if you take the time to search, read, search some more and read some more you can find a lot of great help here. But it does need some organizing. Maybe if some people would use discretion in posting it might help cut down on the smog, if you know what I mean.
DSmithZ28, I think that we are on the same idea.
Many people here started out as noobs, used what they read, and then became developers. I'm trying to do just that. It would not be helpful to limit what I can see as I would not be able to learn the development process as easily. This wave just has to be ridden out and the community will pick up some more help along the way.
Just thought of this from systematic approach and put it in numbers (guessed at the numbers):
Forum pre-influx:
60% Experienced Members
30% Moderate
9% Noobs
1% Don't know where they are
Forum post-influx
45% Experienced Members
24% Moderate
30% Noobs
1% Still celebrating Obama's election
-What this means is that there aren't enough mid level people ATM to handle all of the tedious questions that the developers shouldn't have to answer. As more noob's gain knowledge, there should be a shift in the paradigm, this will even itself out and lead to another great period for XDA!
One thought, what if there were some type of Pledge or Credo thread that would echo the sentiments of this thread. Make it so the new member cannot post until they've responded "Read and Understood" to that thread.
Whatever happens, I pledge to help people find their answers, as it helps me learn along the way.
I know this probably sounds retarded, but back in the Kasier days, there was a couple of users (Scotchua, McMexican, Mfrazzz, taiser999, crispyj, HDStreetglide, JimmyMcGee, Daveshaw, & rzanolgy just to name a few) who floated around all of the rom threads and answered questions along with giving links and subtle prodding of the search function. Maybe if there were more users who did this, things wouldn't be the way they are today. But it will take more than just a couple of users. It will take the work of everyone. Also, we need more users helping edit the wiki's. These are just a couple of suggestions.
Never a truer word spoken, guys
Definitely agree that the culture's changed around here over the past few years.
I dallied a little with cooking a year ago. I was lucky - I had several people helping me by providing solutions to the problems I had (I'm looking at you McMex there, among others!). Back on the Kaiser, every chef helped each other and there was a hardcore group of users who knew what they were talking about and offered solutions. On the Raphael, we've got an excellent group of chefs co-operating, and there are a few of the hardcore, helpful users but I think they're getting lost in the huge amount of other users who seem to think this is an HTC support forum - they've spent money on their phones and think we owe them!
Have the users changed here, or is it just we've got so many more (unconstructive) users in here that they're being too diluted to see?
My time in the kitchen taught me I was out of my depth, and eternal respect for those people who deserve to be in there!
Maybe a read/search count of couple hundred before you can post in the dev forum? Just a thought. Seems like an easiest solution to implement for now.
@ overjjrk
Lol at the 1% celebrating Obama's election
And back on topic, I vote for a Question and Answers section for every device!
Agreed "at least 100%" to post one.
I started - as everybody did - as a NOOB and somehow I learned fairly good (*cough cough*) how to deal with these devices. I do also try to pick up threads now and then surfing the forum and trying to help (enough praise) but it trips me off BIG TIME that it seems meanwhile that NOOB's barely use the search, have no idea how google is spelled and give up after the first try or EVEN WORSE bump their own threads if the don't receive a quick answer. Good that I can keep my temper but sometimes I'd really like to answer "@@#$%%^&"....
I do like what pages like "blownfuze" or "fuzemobilty" provide for NOOBs because with that information stickies would take at least the first three pages of a subject.
Not sure if it can/will work out but fine tuning the Wiki (without breaking it) may help a bit since we all live from the contributions of each other.
An approach could be a Readme 1st section where either only mods or users willing to take this task, can contribute (guess mods will be overwhelmed since they too have a daytime job) and no replies are allowed.
One of the biggest issues and posts I do see recently is "setup the device to a certain provider". I'm not a cab or software guy but could one of these great people here perhaps come up with an idea to have a CAB which will simply set up the connection setting the that particular provider? There aren't more than 2 dozen major ones world wide so that could bring freedom to the chefs to deal with provider specific settings and keep concentrated on fine tuning a ROM still being open for the whole world.... just one of the ideas.
Let's see how this thread evolves.
how about i just start banning people that don't live in new york?
i think this is a good way to go about things.
Sorry I missed the town hall meeting. I am a noob to Roms and phone moding, I did do a lot with the original xbox back when it was fun to mod. Ok a little off toppic.
One thing that noticed you never looked at is where are your noobs (me) comming in to your site? I have only been looking at roms for about a week. All of the searches that I did about roms and rooting my phone all led me to the "The Bible" and yes where is that located at. Most people will post there they find the information. You might look at moving that post to the general tab as this is going to be one of the first places that a person is going to look to first.
This will also be a place that a noob is going to post so dumb question for the 1,000,000th time. If you expect it, it will not be a bad thing.
And yes I did to a bad flash and spent about 5 hours looking for a way to fix what I did.
Thanks for your time and have a great day/night
Good point. I myself was thinking when I first started to look into flashing ROMs and such and found the bible in the Dev section. The Vibrant Bible has lots of information and should probably be in the General Section as it does draw people to the Dev section instead of General.
Maybe it should be in the Q&A forum as it has lots of both.
One of the biggest problems with this forum seems to be that for a development forum, there is very little actual development going on. Obviously only a select group of people have the knowledge and desire to truly develop custom ROMs, but there's a role others can take too.
I've been involved in other development communities, outside of Android, and I can't recall a community as poisonous as this one. The amount of high level technical discussion is nill. As inexperienced as I am with Android, I can't remember the last post that sent me running to google to read more about something. There seems to be little to no give-and-take between developers, which is typically the most fun of any development group I've been a part of. The goal of working towards any common framework seems non-existant.
The supporters of certain ROMs resemble cults more than critical, helpful users. I can't count the amount of replies I've seen to legitimate questions or criticisms saying nothing more than, "Developer X puts in all this time, so you should just be thankful", or some iteration of that. While possibly true, that's the type of worthless hero worship that provides nothing in a community like this.
Even the individual developer forums are worthless. They're 75% "you're awesome" posts, with the other 25% being bug reports.
Obviously the popularity of XDA has made it a destination for simple support posts in addition to development discussion. I guess that's frustrating, but can be handled through moderation. I know on other forums, if I had nothing to do, I'd sit in the help section and answer posts for a couple hours. I'm sure we've all posted on other forums and received helped we're thankful for. Certainly the level of douchebagery that half the users here show isn't needed.
I don't know. Maybe all Android communities are like this. The fragmentation of the development, even on one divice, definitely doesn't help. But it's not the most enjoyable place to read I've ever found.
This is all you need to know:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9831517&postcount=3
The town hall closed too soon, closed 5pm eastern time. Sucks for us on the west coast. I was actually typing and clicked send when I noticed the forum already was closed.
scrizz said:
This is all you need to know:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9831517&postcount=3
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I am sorry that is not all that I needed to know. This was a post for an idea that was not brough up in the town hall. yes I did read the full town hall and no it was never said in the full thread. So before you give a link please make sure of the Question.
That is another reason that you get people pissed off. You have people say "this is all that I need to know" but they did not even look at the full question. This was not a question of what happened in the town hall. It was more like please think of this.
The Bilble thread is a great place for people that are new to star reading about what to do and what not to do. but it really does not have a thing to do about develement.
Thanks for all the other posters I enjoyed the coments.
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
Get your flame suit on cause you're about to get toasted for this thread.
But I agree with you. I'm kinda tired of the attitude here but this has been my home for 2 years and I don't plan on leaving. I wish people would drop the attitudes and be more helpful sometimes. It is what it is though. I just turn a blind eye to it.
Cheers
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
I dont care about being flamed. I see others get flamed all the time on here. If someone is going to post another smart ass comment to my post then they should not bother. I understand people are people and I am not going anywhere either. But it just gets old...
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
I'm normally really quiet on here unless I have some constructive comment or help those that are in need who really need it.
But, the main problem for all the noob question is the lack of direction for noobs to find the info they really need to seek out. Common problem on any type of forum, but is part of how community forums work. Microsoft's community does a good job in controlling this with great help with constructive help on posts given by the moderators and links from others who shared the same type of problem.
Just my 2 pence worth.
Simba501 said:
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
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You just hit the nail on the head!
capathy21 said:
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
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The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
I have noticed this and commented on it in other threads also. The forum has went to **** the past few months.
I have been on this account for almost 3 years on here and 2 before that with another account so i have seen the changes. The reason there are so many newbs and questions is because Android and tablet use has exploded in the past year and half.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
People can be assholes. Yes, most of the time it is uncalled for. i try to help when I can, because I hope someone will help me when I need it. But, at the same time, people need to learn to try to help themselves. See my sig.
We were all newbs at one point - even still, it's expected that everyone, newb and veteran alike are to read the rules and use the search function.
It's all well and good that someone makes an honest mistake by posting the same threads over again, but when it happens by every Joe Blow that comes in here, two or more times a week, and there's already 10 threads on the same topic, and said person never thought to use the search function, has **** grammar and syntax even asking their question or making a "Galaxy S II vs. ?" for the 18th time, it pisses those of us off that actually used our brain when we came here.
See, you got it all wrong: XDA wasn't made for you and I - it is a DEVELOPER'S forum. They were kind enough to let the average user sign up, expecting us to be knowledgeable enough not to be asshats that make a hundred of the same threads. Being self-entitled, thinking that the users who want to keep the developers actually developing, not answering bull**** questions for the 15th time are in the wrong for being firm, even harsh with people that don't, then there's the door. You either help the developers or get out of the way. If the developers or power users are kind enough to help answer certain questions once or twice, then count it as a blessing. DON'T even get mad when those people are then annoyed because the newb doesn't abide by rules or use their brain.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
votinh said:
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
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When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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I did not post this to "whine". I posted it because if I am reading something I get sick of smart ass responses. It may have been a developer only forum at one time but it no longer is. I along with many other people here are in no way developers, but know a little bit about it compared to the average joe and want to learn more. I greatly appreciate the hard working devs who donate their time and genius minds so that we can get the most out of our devices. Its not my first rodeo on a device forum by any means. They are designed for people to help others and learn. There is no place for the attitude. Period.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
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I've been on XDA for a little over a year, I think...ever since I got the captivate. I think I may have 1 or 2 posts in the development forum and 10 or 11 in the general forums. I have spent countless hours searching, reading, searching some more and reading some more until I got the answer I needed for my particular question. Almost 100% of the issues people ask about have been answered before.
That said, I think you're off of on a couple of your bolded comments. This is just as much of a consumer forum as it is a developers forum. The developers themselves have made it that way.
Nearly all google searches about android issues point to some XDA thread. Developers work hard and are often times compensated for their work (donations.) Although, I do not think the main driving force for their hard work is donations. They do it because they love it and they want to share their work with the CONSUMERS that frequent this site.
Flaming an unsuspecting consumer, who may not have done enough research on their own, into oblivion only has negative effects. That person may be a donator that decides to leave, for example. I've used the forum search on a number of occasions and to be honest, it is quite cumbersome...there is just so much data to go through. That doesn't stop me but it is quite frustrating some times.
I think a more effective strategy for dealing with consumers, who may not be as diligent at researching as most, would be to simply ignore the post. This will force them to do more research on their own. Now, you have a user who does more research on their own and you don't look like a ****.
Flaming is pointless. Those that do it are jerks.
Shammyh said:
When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
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Yup, in addition to one of the links in my sig being STRONGLY recommended reading:
Whenever I purchase a device, I always spend at least an hour or two a day for 2-3 days reading the forums for that device to learn its ins and outs before I post ANYTHING. Actually, in many cases, I do that before even purchasing.
XDA has clearly stated rules, and Rule #1 is to search before posting. In addition, any new users has to watch the infamous "Noob on XDA" video as part of the registration process now.
So there is NO excuse for not searching. Especially when a user posts a new thread with:
1) A question from the FAQ - it is there for a reason
2) A question that has already been covered in MULTIPLE topics that are still on the first 1-2 pages of the forum. It takes 30 seconds to skim through a page of thread titles - but users insist that someone else spend 2-3 minutes digging up a thread for them instead of spending a minute to read thread titles.
Yes, sometimes we can spend almost as much time on the flame - but at least that lets us relieve our stress at yet another user who thinks they deserve special treatment and doesn't have to follow the rules.
Edit: As to just ignoring a post - A user that didn't bother to search won't go away. They'll do something even more annoying like creating yet another NEW thread, posting a thread in Development because it wasn't answered in General or Q&A, or bumping their thread after only 12 hours. They only way they'll learn any lesson is to get a little toasty.
While donations are nice, the kind of user who comes with the kind of sense of self-entitlement that gets them flamed isn't going to donate anyway. Plus I could get quadruple the donations I've received in 3 months, and I'd still wind up with less than half a week's pay at my real job.
The amount of time one will spend searching and reading will be FAR less than the time you waste because you didn't read and screwed something up.
"Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life." (Yeah, I mangled that slightly...)
This is a DEVELOPERS forum, it always has been and always will be. Without developers, it's no different than Android Central or any other forum.
Ok there wouldnt be anyone giving noobs attitude if they just followed the rules. **** they even make you watch a video b4 becoming a member here. If you have a question chances are someone has already asked/answered it. There is a search bar for a reason. USE IT! If not the by all means go ahead and post Im 100% sure you wont get **** for it. They even have a suggested thread dropdown when creating a new one, hoping someone sees that there has already been a threat opened pertaining to that particular subject. Its frustrating to other uzers who read these fourms day in and day out seeing some kid with one post asking the same question someone had already posted 3 times now. simply put quit being lazy and search just like everyone else here has b4 they asked a question.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
bigblue95z said:
And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
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Uhh, most of the developers and users here couldn't care less how "big" XDA is. And second, as Entropy512 pointed out, most devs don't care tremendously about donations. Yea, when I really like something, or have some extra cash, I'll kick a developer a few extra bucks. But it's not really about donations or popularity. And I don't think a single Dev here is actually living off of the donations from XDA users...
And further... if you check my post history, you'd see I in fact do try to "teach people to fish" all the time. And more often than not, I'll just answer a n00b question rather than flame. And yes, the Forum search isn't the best, hence why a Google "site:xda-developers.com YourSearchTermHere" is a useful alternative.
XDA is not a n00b friendly forum. If you're a new user looking to learn about Android or phones or whatever for the first time... there are other places to do that. It's called "xda-DEVELOPERS" for a reason.
Devs have holier that thou attitudes. They act like they shouldn't be bothered by stupid nub questions. Yet they feel compelled to answer them and ***** about doing so...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
use the search function and this will not happen.
/thread
I'm writing here because I haven't posted enough to post in the developement section. I have had my pad since they came out. I've rooted and hacked almost every electronic device I've ever had, going back to my Timex Sinclair. I read the delevopement posts numerous times a day. I've flashed this more times than I dare to count (very, very few issues, so few infact, sold my A500). So I go into the developement thread, some guy has asked a question regarding an issue he's having and the response he gets...(I'm paraphrasing), "If you had bothered to read....you wouldn't even of asked". It wasn't even a question of having wifi issues! This person (and others) take the time to go after someone who is asking a ligitimate question (at least in their own mind), and heaven forbid they didn't read all 500 plus posts and that's the response, that's all you got. I've donated, will continue to donate and continue to be amazed at what Leo and the group have done, but I won't ever ask a question on this forum. Maybe it's just a way to get their "Post" numbers up (it's working for me). I read many posts about how great this group is, and yet we need to blast folks...those of you that do so must be the same folks driving up and down HWY 41 everyday! I'm done...now I have two posts. Oh and thanks Leo, more $ on it's way!
So you think the Touchpad mods suck? Or you think requiring 10 posts before posting in development sucks?
Personally I think 80% of what gets posted in development isn't development. IMO hail to the TP mods for getting the Q and A section added!
If you wanna post in development, go actually contribute by answering questions.
The 10 post rule is to weed out spammers. It isn't hard to get 10 legit helpful posts.
Sent from something with a Ｋモ尺れモㄥ.
Jwoc12 said:
I'm writing here because I haven't posted enough to post in the developement section. I have had my pad since they came out. I've rooted and hacked almost every electronic device I've ever had, going back to my Timex Sinclair. I read the delevopement posts numerous times a day. I've flashed this more times than I dare to count (very, very few issues, so few infact, sold my A500). So I go into the developement thread, some guy has asked a question regarding an issue he's having and the response he gets...(I'm paraphrasing), "If you had bothered to read....you wouldn't even of asked". It wasn't even a question of having wifi issues! This person (and others) take the time to go after someone who is asking a ligitimate question (at least in their own mind), and heaven forbid they didn't read all 500 plus posts and that's the response, that's all you got. I've donated, will continue to donate and continue to be amazed at what Leo and the group have done, but I won't ever ask a question on this forum. Maybe it's just a way to get their "Post" numbers up (it's working for me). I read many posts about how great this group is, and yet we need to blast folks...those of you that do so must be the same folks driving up and down HWY 41 everyday! I'm done...now I have two posts. Oh and thanks Leo, more $ on it's way!
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Hello there.
Trust me I understand the frustration. I don't like it much either. But the monster has been created and we need to tame it. The bigger question is how.
I personally don't like building up thread counts and can attribute a ton of posts are not dev related.
One idea I'm working on is cleaning up the OP with more usable content to help the new comers and help guide those that are not. I am working on a Q&A link that will be a PDF that helps shine light on some of the problems we have. Also there is room for me to make a very initiative installation guide in PDF form for people to print and have the ability to make notes to help guide thru the process.
While people jump the gun and are on attack mode at times, many times they aren't. The thread is so large its hard to even search for answers so that's where I get the point. I hope you don't let ur frustrations stop you from using the rom.
I also plan on talking to a few people that can help answer via pm. This will take the load off.
I appreciate ur feedback and support and just know that 99% of the guys are good folks.
Have a good one
~leo
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
"So you think the Touchpad mods suck? Or you think requiring 10 posts before posting in development sucks?"
Didn't say either...point was, I couldn't respond directly in the development forum...
"If you wanna post in development, go actually contribute by answering questions."
That's just funny....proves my point, somewhat (though I guess I didn't ask a question). I can't "contribute" for 2 reasons; first, don't have enough posts, second, don't know enough. That's why I go there numerous times a day, to try and learn. Someday, I hope I can contribute. Right now I do it with my pocket book. (Is that one word or two?). However, if you ever need help with an insurance claim, I can knock your socks off!
Seriously and thank you again as usual Leo. I know the vast majority of folks are trying to be helpful. There are a few right now though that post a lot and many of those posts are not helpful, just rude (I had a tough day at work, try managing an insurance claims dept, talk about rude). Sorry about the 500 too, should have read more carefully...
I'm typing this on my computer. I just started getting "FCs" with the XDA app, not kidding... what are the chances...suppose I got what I deserved...
Everyone, have a great weekend.
I know of the posts you're referring too, and most of the reason why we're getting aggravated is because most of the answers can be found in the OP of the thread. It's gets really old when we're told 15 times a day that wifi doesn't work.
Sent from my GT-i9100 (faux Touchpad) using Tapatalk.
Ill tell you whats equally annoying. When you subscribe to a Dev thread to see when something gets updated, and you get an email notification every time someone responds with "cant wait" or "me too" or "this+1". I understand people are excited, Im excited for it too, but its seems people just like posting for the sake of posting. If I was a dev trying to follow what problems people were having, Id pull my hair out trying to weed through all the nonsense.
And now for the ever so annoying....."end rant." (hate that equally)
I'd like to agree with all the points made here and also refer to the video azrienoch made a while ago referring to noobs. Some posters thinking they have enough posts to ignore basic etiquette. Its actually better to sit on the sidelines and learn rather than post unnecessary things. I feel like it's a good idea to ponder your post to consider if you can find the answer another way, post in a more topic related thread or just render the post useless.
Sent from my lil electrify
I fully understand getting aggravated. Again, 30 + years in insurance claims, heard it all. The question is how do we show/express that aggravation. My "job" includes dealing with aggravation/frustration in a professional manner. Dealing with my wife, my kids and now grand kids. I must show restraint. I understand this isn't your job, and in my opinion, even more reason to show restraint and compassion. Who cares if a person hasn't read all the posts (and weeded through all the superfluous stuff as mentioned above (agree by the way). Maybe they missed it, maybe they didn't understand it, maybe they work 12 hours a day and don't have the time to read every post and are simply looking to "friends" to give them a hand. There are a lot more important things to get aggravated about. And Krunk (can I call you Krunk?), I've read a lot of your posts, you can be extremely helpful and your are obviously extremely knowledgeable. Use your powers for good! I'm a good guy, I mean no disrespect. I do understand all the experienced folks getting annoyed with the same questions. I need to practice what I preach and show some grace (patience and understanding) to those on HWY 41 (between Fresno and Yosemite). Again, thanks for listening. Now I have to figure out how to remove the Rom, update WebOS (can't we just get rid of that....I know, I know, asked answered ) and put Rom back on. Take care all.
Thar
slicedcheese said:
I'd like to agree with all the points made here and also refer to the video azrienoch made a while ago referring to noobs. Some posters thinking they have enough posts to ignore basic etiquette. Its actually better to sit on the sidelines and learn rather than post unnecessary things. I feel like it's a good idea to ponder your post to consider if you can find the answer another way, post in a more topic related thread or just render the post useless.
Sent from my lil electrify
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That Azrienoch video is great. He put a lot of time in making that one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvCpR45LKA
I understand what u meen op and i wanna help people out too but 90% of the stuff on those forums is flying on the internet and noone cares to search. Just google it. Tthats the first place i look at and 9/10 times the answer is there. Also if u really want to help someone out and you acnt because u got restricted send them a PM and carry on. This way u help the guy out and dont spend 1h arguing with somebody over something offtopick.
Sent from my HTC Ruby using XDA App
Dubble post
Jwoc12 said:
I fully understand getting aggravated. Again, 30 + years in insurance claims, heard it all. The question is how do we show/express that aggravation. My "job" includes dealing with aggravation/frustration in a professional manner. Dealing with my wife, my kids and now grand kids. I must show restraint. I understand this isn't your job, and in my opinion, even more reason to show restraint and compassion. Who cares if a person hasn't read all the posts (and weeded through all the superfluous stuff as mentioned above (agree by the way). Maybe they missed it, maybe they didn't understand it, maybe they work 12 hours a day and don't have the time to read every post and are simply looking to "friends" to give them a hand. There are a lot more important things to get aggravated about. And Krunk (can I call you Krunk?), I've read a lot of your posts, you can be extremely helpful and your are obviously extremely knowledgeable. Use your powers for good! I'm a good guy, I mean no disrespect. I do understand all the experienced folks getting annoyed with the same questions. I need to practice what I preach and show some grace (patience and understanding) to those on HWY 41 (between Fresno and Yosemite). Again, thanks for listening. Now I have to figure out how to remove the Rom, update WebOS (can't we just get rid of that....I know, I know, asked answered ) and put Rom back on. Take care all.
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Everyone calls me Krunk
I put my FAQ in my signature to help with most questions regarding the Touchpad
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Jwoc12, I re read what you wrote and just want to say thanks for reminding me of when I first got my OG Droid back in the day. I've always been good with tech, I'm even a 2ND level network admin, but boy do I remember feeling over whelmed just rooting Froyo back then, haha.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
I agree with the rants on both sides in this thread.
I understand the need to "weed out the newbs", but 10 posts doesn't make someone think any more than not having 10 posts makes them brainless.
On the on other hand, it will weed out those who just want to show up and quickly troll (you have to be a dedicated troll to get past the restriction).
I've been frustrated many, many times with the fact that I cannot respond to questions that I know I can answer... one I answered via pm, but I don't think the person ever noticed.
One thing I find extremely confusing is how people are getting around these limits.
I've seen more than a few posts in the XRON dev thread by people with only 2 or 3 posts! (yet another just showed up, asking a question that I can answer)
It honestly wouldn't take more than a few minutes to post 10 things on the entire XDA site if you're that concerned.
Posting in the developers threads is for developers or people troubleshooting development issues, you sound like you just want to throw your 2 cents in and have everyone tell you how great you are.
mini rant
While I understand your frustration I just can not agree with you on several comments you made. The thread that you are speaking about is extremely long as you stated. You stated yourself that you read every post and go through pages of posts per day. And let me say that I thank you for doing the right thing and reading everything before posting.
I do work 10 hour days and while yes it would be easier for me to rude and just ask a question in the middle of a thread that has already been answered or addressed I dont do it. Why? Its rude and lazy. These extra posts waste everyone's time because everyone that follows the thread has that many more post to read and go through. Its a huge waste of time.
I hate to go on a little mindless rant but I do not like the way of thinking that people have today. Its a me first attitude. They dont read whats already posted or google it(which takes 2 seconds). Instead they cut off the flow of the post or conversation to ask a question that is not relevant or has already been answered.
I myself have yet to ask a question. Why? Am I super smart? NO I am not. But by reading the posts and googling what I had trouble finding I was able to find my answers.
Ok sorry about my rant. Everyone can go back to what they were doing. I just had to get this out as I have seen way too much of this lately.
theniel said:
It honestly wouldn't take more than a few minutes to post 10 things on the entire XDA site if you're that concerned.
Posting in the developers threads is for developers or people troubleshooting development issues, you sound like you just want to throw your 2 cents in and have everyone tell you how great you are.
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It's not obvious which one of us you're responding to, but it is moderately obvious that you're trolling, but I'll bite anyways just in case you're actually serious (and referring to me).
XDA, even in the general section, when you're under 10 posts, limits you to 1 post per 5 minutes (this includes editing your own posts for accuracy, which is how I found out). So much for your "only a few minutes" theory.
You obviously haven't read the XDA dev thread at all (I've read > 95% of the posts in that thread) or you wouldn't be posting such a reply about the purpose of the thread.
The frustrating question I was referring to that I wanted to answer wasn't for glory (are you serious?), it was to stem the 2 day flood of useless answers this poor person received (half were unhelpful, the others were flaming, leaving this poor person extremely frustrated). Not one person gave the reply I ended up sending the person in a PM, but the thread was derailed (for at least the hundredth time) extensively with a very non-development-related topic. My intent was solely to stem this and bring the thread back on topic.
First let me clarify, my comment or "title" ...10 posts was simply to say I could not post what I was about to say in the developement section....nothing to do with the rule. It is what it is...If I could think of 10 important things to say, it would not be difficult to get to 10 posts. What I was trying to say and what is now happening even in this little tread is that is it really necessary to go after folks for voicing an opinion or asking a question etc. Again, using my silly analogy, some "fool" is tailgating my butt down HWY 41 (with a line of cars all doing 65 (55 posted) and finally pulls out and around (scarring the crap out of the guy coming the other way) just to get one car ahead. 5 minutes later were right next to each other at the light (HWY 41 and 145 (google it)). What's the point. How pissed off do I really want to get? Just back off and let them go....folks complain about the continued same question (you say google, then why have the forum?), then we see pages of people pissed off, now people have to read through all that. For what it's worth, I've see a lot less of it recently in the dev forum, and that's a good thing...right? Let people ask their questions, point them in the right direction (or just let it go). Hey Krunk, I have the original droid, that was fun, son has it now, he's playing with MUIU. I remember setting up a "clean room" in my home back in the day to put additional memory in my Amiga 1000. I think I even put the cat in a hazmat suit! My wife still gives me grief over that. It's all about fun!
I would ask that if you have ideas on how to improve this forum please send me a PM. I have been moderator for th TP for just a couple weeks and I am cleaning things more everyday.
I remember a time when people were helpful on XDA. They would share knowledge, help others who know less. Unfortunately, those days are long gone.
I have referred many friends and acquaintances to XDA Developers, telling them there are many very experienced guys - and girls - who are happy to help you... It gives many of them the experience they need.
But a number of these people would tell me that the people on XDA are, basically, jerks! Rather than complain along with others, I hope to get through to at least one of you.
XDA began as a site where anyone with a specific handheld device could ask any question in order to get help...with any problem they would encounter. It grew and added other devices. Now XDA has become the most reputable go-to site for help with any kind of phone. If anyone knows anything about phones they know XDA Developers.
Guys, this should not be a place to show-off, or to be rude or intimidating. Often, there are people with questions, or need help, advice...and they don't know anything. These are the people who need help the most. Your help. Please treat people the way YOU would want to be treated when YOU did not know anything at all. That is all I ask.
Thank you.
If you ask nicely, in the right place, you'll get an answer.
The problem is when people come demanding this or that, being rude and asking questions in the wrong places.
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my expirience is i been in 2 phone sections the skyrocket galaxy s2 and the lg g2.
in the s2 there were very helpful but when i came here i notice the same thing rather then getting help you get unnecessary post or answers.. or making fun of you or beign smartasses.. ive had a few arguments with some guys in here so they know who they are
the way i think is teach someone that someone will teach another, we are all different some will get it, and to some will be more difficult. instead ofa bogus post why not share link or type a helpful post.. then if you aint helping why post at all just ignore and go on with life..
CiscoKydd said:
I remember a time when people were helpful on XDA. They would share knowledge, help others who know less. Unfortunately, those days are long gone.
I have referred many friends and acquaintances to XDA Developers, telling them there are many very experienced guys - and girls - who are happy to help you... It gives many of them the experience they need.
But a number of these people would tell me that the people on XDA are, basically, jerks! Rather than complain along with others, I hope to get through to at least one of you.
XDA began as a site where anyone with a specific handheld device could ask any question in order to get help...with any problem they would encounter. It grew and added other devices. Now XDA has become the most reputable go-to site for help with any kind of phone. If anyone knows anything about phones they know XDA Developers.
Guys, this should not be a place to show-off, or to be rude or intimidating. Often, there are people with questions, or need help, advice...and they don't know anything. These are the people who need help the most. Your help. Please treat people the way YOU would want to be treated when YOU did not know anything at all. That is all I ask.
Thank you.
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As a moderator and very active member of this community I see a lot. There are threads that I participate in as a member and those are the most friendly, helpful threads. I am actually shocked at the helpfulness and politeness in spite of the fact that people asking the questions failed to read as close as 2 posts above which had their answer. More and more members have joined this community and do not want to read even the basic requirement of the OP of the thread before they attempt to modify their $600 device. Too many members want an answer NAO without having to go to the trouble of reading or searching a little. The very first rule asks all members who join to search first. When I joined in 2010, I read for a month before making my first post. XDA was not a help desk then. It was a place to share knowledge. This is two very different things. People who genuinely want help, how to theme, how to change something, how to know how to adjust a kernel and figure out the best setting for themselves...those people usually get the help they need. But people that refuse to read, expecting the members of the thread to do it for them...then ask a question in a development thread like "Do I need root for this?" Then proceed to ask to be spoon fed how to do it? This probably will annoy some members that have done a little reading. So yes, the site has changed...you can expect that with going from a million members in 2010 to 7 million now. And on the other hand we do have rules regarding member conduct as well, and members should respect the new members and guide them..make this the site they want it to be and once was. I understand what you are saying but I also see many sides of this. I see new members being rude, demanding answers, expecting someone to answer within an hour of their question, as well as the other side of someone rudely stating "Search!". So it is not just one sided. Unfortunately I see this as a sign of what society in general is becoming as we overpopulate this poor ball of dirt hurtling through space.
Thank you, KennyG123. I cannot disagree with anything you stated. In fact, it reminds me that I forgot to mention to new members that they be polite, also. I cannot help but to agree with you 100%. We all need a little reminder sometimes. So I hope that someone...anyone reads this and think about how they treat others. I need it, too!
Again, Thank you, KennyG123.
This thread should be a sticky
Enjoyed this thoroughly.
Been on since my little Frodo Sony Xperia mini x10i (what a name) and right here are the two sides of coin.
When I came on I knew nothing - and asked some dumb questions, and did the searches etc.
Many of those searches came back with stuff I could not understand. And some of the people reproducing this info were jerks - concerned only with obfuscation and an invitation to pm.
However, people were not rude, so eventually you find someone same level or a little higher and you're off.
Then suddenly the nicest thing happens - someone asks for help...and you CAN help. You recognise yourself and step in and it's good - EVEN IF just to remind them that the answer is on the page before, and sometimes searching first will help. And this without the eye-rolling condescension...you all know what I mean.
I too have referred people here, impressed with my 'knowledge', and I'm like, no, look, it's this great community of people......and then have them come back all discouraged and they may as well just stick to whatever the corporations foist on them.
Then on the other hand, a couple of years ago I noticed a proliferating of the other kind of jerk - you know them also.
Badgering the creator of a post for eta's with funny emoticons, I just cant wait, are we there yet, huh, are we there yet, and by the way do you think we'll be getting Smartie for our phones, and over on the 'other' device, they've got the code to overlay on Marshmallow to port to Smartie, their phones are so much better, and more whining, and maybe YOU can do the port, and are we there yet, I'll check back in an hour, and oh ya, how do I root yadiyada - there's a stickie, first post by the way.
That also is plain rude. There's a community, find out a little about it first, or read the phone manual at least.
For both instances I find one thing; real XDAers do not snap at people, don't jeez I wish you'd read something first, aren't put off by being referred to search either, won't make anyone feel like they're time here has been wasted, nor that anyone else is dumb, they've all been there.
These are the fakers, and posers, and always, ALWAYS, at the centre of some flame war.
Of course sometimes you want to voice your opinion on something and read others too so over-moderation kills the fun. There can be discretion, and it is clear when a discussion has gone from heated to just plain chest thumping - step away.
So, you know, use common sense.
Finally, just one more thing, I learnt good moderators are actually very helpful...For anything.
Pm something. They'll point you somewhere, guaranteed. Let them know if you feel like you're being bullied WITH A LINK to where this is happening and they'll show up and clean up the thread and keep safe. Though look, if YOU are the one stirring stuff up and then reporting, that too will be seen, and in my experience, that's looked at as a worse offence than just not searching first, so be sure.
Something HAS happened to the entire world of social internet that I find reprehensible. People have become rude simply because it makes them feel better to put someone else down in style.
I don't know when it happened exactly - and it's everywhere, Reddit, Facebook, wherever.
At XDA we can at least keep reminding people to just have a good time and don't be rude. Do whatever you like; research and grow or ask stupid questions, just don't be rude. We care about everyone on here.
We actually do.
Sent from my HUAWEI P7-L10 using XDA Premium HD app
CiscoKydd your thoughts are echoed by many on XDA. Heck we mods have the same thoughts from time to time.
This
CiscoKydd said:
XDA began as a site where anyone with a specific handheld device could ask any question in order to get help...with any problem they would encounter.
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actually wasn't the guise under which XDA was created. It was a site by developers for developers. There were many times when a Dev would tell people to F off but by in large (as it is today) many were willing to share their knowledge.
CiscoKydd said:
Guys, this should not be a place to show-off, or to be rude or intimidating.
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We simply call this group the entitled.. Ask them, they will tell you it is so:silly:
A big change implemented a few years ago on XDA, came about with this small group in mind. We call it the report system (explained here):good:
While we like to see this behemoth (XDA) run like a well oiled machine, there will always be a wrench thrown into the cog. We (moderators/admin of XDA) ask that you NOT let yourselves get dragged into the battle of wills. A simple report with a simple explanation (in said report) usually lets us deal with a situation with little, to no drama left behind in its wake.
CiscoKydd said:
Please treat people the way YOU would want to be treated when YOU did not know anything at all. That is all I ask.
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Cheers to that mate:good:
As membership continues to grow we can only hope that the few that read this remember why we are all here, to share and help others with what you know.
I have been "crying" to XDA for a number of years for help. I always got the help I needed. Most important, I got an education. There is more knowledge here on XDA than I could ever absorb! The hardest part was learning to search. But once I got over that hump I felt... Powerful!!
And I need to remind myself to be understanding, patient, respectful. You guys are right. It ain't easy sometimes. But XDA is a learning experience.
You guys are a good and knowledgeable bunch. Thanks. For everything.
I honestly feel this dependence on the question. I usually just look at topics rather then post in them, and I can see some people ask a certian question that other people regret as nubish, so suddenly they have "Nub mode" on. I just want them to remember that they, once upon a time were these so called noobs too.
Obviously this is not true about the majority of the people, just some.
Move this thread to "android general" or something, its useless to have it here
A short and good note mate ! but why here ?
Thanks for bringing this up.
Eminemiero said:
Move this thread to "android general" or something, its useless to have it here
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rajkatiyar07 said:
A short and good note mate ! but why here ?
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I assume the OP has a G2 and felt he would like to post his opinion on the subject in his general section.
This is fine:good:
TonyStark said:
Thanks for bringing this up.
I assume the OP has a G2 and felt he would like to post his opinion on the subject in his general section.
This is fine:good:
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No problem Mr. Stark !
Regards :- Jarvis
I don't know why but I really miss 2010 to 2012 gingerbread days
OP is right. I think this situation becomes because of release xda themes after 2010 version. I'am using 2010 theme and I think after 2010 themes are very compilcated and makes users nerveous and this is the reason why anyone not want to be help each other.
George Jetson said:
I don't know why but I really miss 2010 to 2012 gingerbread days
OP is right. I think this situation becomes because of release xda themes after 2010 version. I'am using 2010 theme and I think after 2010 themes are very compilcated and makes users nerveous and this is the reason why anyone not want to be help each other.
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Thats funny, I came here in 2013 and I think that theme's the best and everything else is complicated. I miss the kitkat days.
Alradaev said:
I honestly feel this dependence on the question. I usually just look at topics rather then post in them, and I can see some people ask a certian question that other people regret as nubish, so suddenly they have "Nub mode" on. I just want them to remember that they, once upon a time were these so called noobs too.
Obviously this is not true about the majority of the people, just some.
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I can't remember ever being flamed for making a noob question. One of my first posts on this site was a silly question in a dev thread and the developer (LenAsh) just answered it respectfully. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones but my noobishness was only ever met with kindness and help.
I don't think I've experienced any rudeness when I've (albeit rarely) asked any questions since I started my Android journey in early-mid 2014. Before that I was an iOS guy, before that a Final Fantasy XI guy (MMORPG, was a moderator for a while of one of the biggest FFXI websites created by my best friend), and so on and so on. All forums that are a bit on the nerdy/technical/gadgets side have a problem with rude people. Lest we not forget the adage that the delightful guys at Penny Arcade put into a perfect cartoon: regular person + anonymity (sometimes)= bag of douche.
Having been a moderator I understand the frustration occasionally felt by @KennyG123 and @TonyStark. Why are some people such freakin jerks, yet others will type the same thing 10,000 times just to feel like they've helped 10,000 people. Why do some people read and search and learn first for a while before asking anything, yet others will ask (and almost demand) to have their hand held at every. single. step.? Maybe it's human nature?
I'm all about helping and being nice. Online and off.
people tend to ask first read later or no read at all.
they just want to post the question then go and do their own thing, come back later to see the answer.
while the thread starter wasted their own time to type the multiple posts of information/FAQ.
and last, this post should not be in this section as this is not even android related.
you post the wrong question in the wrong section and you still hope to get an answer?
I've been on the HTC wildfire, Nexus 5, Nexus 7 2013, Nexus 9 and LG G2 threads and have always found the other XDA members to be most helpful, (even though I'm not a flashaholic.)
However, I do make sure to search before asking questions and can therefore understand the frustration of answering questions that have been asked many times before. :angel:
So true but it seems out side of the G2 forums, there are still good people.
I had a good experience in the nexus 6 forums, never once got asked to "search before asking" best part of it is that I don't even have a N6 and the question I asked was actually illegal/criminal, I didn't know that at the time and those members explained in detail why it was illegal without bring disrespectful to me.
I honestly blame mods for not being strict enough.
I brought up a few specific xda members that were out right harassing people and I presented my case with evidence of repeated harassment.
The mod told me that I was over reacting. I said that by not doing anything about it they were condoning the action.
I wanted to strangle that mod, completely worthless. Police that don't enforce.
If the mods would start banning the few that are bringing xda down, then the problem would be solved.
But they won't do anything!
Mods have their work cut out for them here and I know they are doing the best they can, but it's not focused correctly to rectify the problem.
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