Off-TOPIC--Why does everyone stop developing for the rezound?

Off-TOPIC--Why does everyone stop developing for the rezound? - HTC Rezound

Its weird my friend has the rezound but the top Roms on here seems like the devs just stop developing is there a reason for that? Just kind of sucks she has this awesome phone ..and no Roms ...I feel like I should revert her to stock..my galaxy nexus on the other hand the developers are spitting Roms out their anus..lol..just sucks I guess.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

There's a bunch of devs still actively making roms for this phone, what are you talking about?
The ones that have left either have gotten frustrated with the users or moved on to newer/different phones.
The GNex is going to have a crapload cause it's an open phone running pure Android, this phone has the added challenge of being a Sense based phone.

don't expect daily rom updates here. won't happen until nightlies are started.

mjones73 said:
There's a bunch of devs still actively making roms for this phone, what are you talking about?
The ones that have left either have gotten frustrated with the users or moved on to newer/different phones.
The GNex is going to have a crapload cause it's an open phone running pure Android, this phone has the added challenge of being a Sense based phone.
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Click to collapse
Phone has the added challenge of being an HTC phone with both a locked bootloader shipped *and* a Security On / Off flag to protect the rest of memory, and hardly any decent support from HTC on getting ICS let alone JellyBean in a timely fashion.
Different issues deterred developers in each part of the phone's life cycle thus far:
Early life: Bootloader remained locked for a good while leading up to the Nexus launch. Everybody that looked at the phone for most of the pre-Nexus window saw there wasn't anything that could be done. That deterred the majority of devs back then.
Mid-life:Security off is what devs usually achieve first on any HTC device... but HTC made it hard for developers to find an S-off method for that whole 2011 generation of phones. HTC got a bunch of outcries before they said "fine, here is HTCDev.com, now you can Unlock the bootloader and tinker around with ROMs, just stay away from the radios and all that, mmmkay?" It was a half-won battle.
Then, we didn't have S-off for months. Traditionally, S-off is what the "common" dude on the street understands as the key to developing on an HTC phone. That gives access to flash anything anywhere, unlike the Unlocked bootloader. A handful of devs just looked at that and thought "oh, S-on still, can't do *anything* for the phone." And moved on.
Current stage of life:The devs that are still on-board realize all this, but there are few other devs who came here in the first place to help out. Oh, and of course the serious delay of ICS. Second half of the year, 3rd Quarter release date rather than 1st Quarter as HTC said at launch. Without timely manufacturer source code, it is hard to work on an new OS.

I was referring to current state but that is a great summary of the history of development on this phone.
Now we are unlocked and s-off, the latest hurdle now is the delay of the ICS kernel source (due to the delay with the ICS updates) and of course a non Sense RIL.
Still there's some nice roms being put out for this phone in the mean time.

I am making ROMs. Don't hate.

Lol not hating I love the work and don't expect daily updates just found it weird some Roms haven't had updates in months . I see the few that do pure ICS which is nice but I was looking to keep sense 4 its pretty nice . I might want to try to dive into ROM developing myself but I was just wondering if there was a reason for the sense Roms stopping Dev work well the most popular ones I see .
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

PhantasmRezound said:
Phone has the added challenge of being an HTC phone with both a locked bootloader shipped *and* a Security On / Off flag to protect the rest of memory, and hardly any decent support from HTC on getting ICS let alone JellyBean in a timely fashion.
Different issues deterred developers in each part of the phone's life cycle thus far:
Early life: Bootloader remained locked for a good while leading up to the Nexus launch. Everybody that looked at the phone for most of the pre-Nexus window saw there wasn't anything that could be done. That deterred the majority of devs back then.
Mid-life:Security off is what devs usually achieve first on any HTC device... but HTC made it hard for developers to find an S-off method for that whole 2011 generation of phones. HTC got a bunch of outcries before they said "fine, here is HTCDev.com, now you can Unlock the bootloader and tinker around with ROMs, just stay away from the radios and all that, mmmkay?" It was a half-won battle.
Then, we didn't have S-off for months. Traditionally, S-off is what the "common" dude on the street understands as the key to developing on an HTC phone. That gives access to flash anything anywhere, unlike the Unlocked bootloader. A handful of devs just looked at that and thought "oh, S-on still, can't do *anything* for the phone." And moved on.
Current stage of life:The devs that are still on-board realize all this, but there are few other devs who came here in the first place to help out. Oh, and of course the serious delay of ICS. Second half of the year, 3rd Quarter release date rather than 1st Quarter as HTC said at launch. Without timely manufacturer source code, it is hard to work on an new OS.
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Click to collapse
I actually figured this myself but didn't really know how tough it was till I did a little research I've been dealing with that s on vs off and the boot loader thing for a while and until now never really saw for myself how difficult it was. I understand why they are getting mad at HTC and at&t foe not releasing he stuff for the one x
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

One thing I will say HTC may be late with updates ..but they update more than anyone else I've dealt with lol I don't really fudge with Motorola or Samsung anymore *despite having a galaxy nexus* I was convinced to get this because of Google if this was just another galaxy device managed by Samsung I would have never got it ...I wish the one x was the nexus device they had lol!!!
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

GrayTheWolf said:
I am making ROMs. Don't hate.
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I saw I like it
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

I've been working on a secret surprise too. It's not ready yet, but you'll know when it is cause it will magically appear in goo-manager one day.

a.mcdear said:
I've been working on a secret surprise too. It's not ready yet, but you'll know when it is cause it will magically appear in goo-manager one day.
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Click to collapse
Now I need to know! :b, any hints???
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using XDA

Developers tend to move on to the newest phone/gadget to obviously have a better device themselves but also to make money. The newest and greatest phones have the most users therefore the most to be gained from developing for them both for the user and the developer.

i am currently learning about Rom Creation along with a couple more people which include cslingerland. i am in the basics right now but i am proof of a (hopefully) future developer for the Rezound.

I'm interested lol
Sent from the Galaxy: Nexus bow down before your leader

That's true I don't know why I didn't think of that
Sent from the Galaxy: Nexus bow down before your leader

Budderz said:
Developers tend to move on to the newest phone/gadget to obviously have a better device themselves but also to make money. The newest and greatest phones have the most users therefore the most to be gained from developing for them both for the user and the developer.
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I've made well under $100 for the hundreds of hours I have put in porting recoveries, helping out, and rom making. So money is not the reason honestly.

Related

How long to crack locked phones?

Hello all, I'm currently using a Nexus One on T-Mo but am probably going to jump back to Sprint here soon. I had been looking to get the Evo3D, but fear that it's going to be locked down as the Thuderbolt was. I understand you guy were able to gain root on the Thunderbolt recently, but only because you got an engineering something or other, I don't remember exactly. My question here is, what would the chances have been of the phone being rooted the normal brute force way. Would we have been looking at possibly months or more, or was it just a matter of days. I ask cause if the Evo3D is going to be locked down and may take months or more to crack, I may just go with the Nexus S for now.

Well it looks like HTCs phones are going to be locked up tight. Not really sure about the EVO3D but I wouldn't be surprised if it had a locked bootloader etc.

ERIFNOMI said:
Well it looks like HTCs phones are going to be locked up tight. Not really sure about the EVO3D but I wouldn't be surprised if it had a locked bootloader etc.
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Yeah... HTC makes me sad all day for locking their bootloaders, samsung is looking more and more attractive. Sammy's phones don't even put up a fight, sometimes getting root before they're even released to general public
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

PaganAng3l said:
Yeah... HTC makes me sad all day for locking their bootloaders, samsung is looking more and more attractive. Sammy's phones don't even put up a fight, sometimes getting root before they're even released to general public
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
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Cause the TB wasn't rooted before it came out right?
Samsung is looking attractive just because they don't lock their bootloaders? What kind of logic is that? Look at the Galaxy series, those phones were crap, full of lag, horrible GPS, etc.

Yes and our GPS works flawlessly

wakestrong said:
Yes and our GPS works flawlessly
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Mine sure does. A thousand times better than my Facinate did.
Sent from my BAMF ADR6400L using XDA Premium App

g00s3y said:
Cause the TB wasn't rooted before it came out right?
Samsung is looking attractive just because they don't lock their bootloaders? What kind of logic is that? Look at the Galaxy series, those phones were crap, full of lag, horrible GPS, etc.
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Ah, where to begin I'm guessing that you misunderstood what I said, or maybe I worded it wrong. In my previous post I was merely making a gross generalization. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love HTC for their build quality and the fact that my G2 (being over a year old) STILL puts up a decent fight against new devices. What I meant was that given a choice I will always support a manufacturer that keeps their devices unlocked (like samsung). Yes, samsung has had some pretty dismal failures in the phone department, but what about the Nexus S 4G? Not to mention the fact that according to a few websites, they seem to be learning from their mistakes and putting out great devices recently (matter of opinion though). I can't really see how my logic is flawed for wanting MY device to have an unlocked bootloader, it's just a standard I'm developing. As far as the thunderbolt getting root before release.... stuff happens unexpectedly and I'm glad the TB got root so soon. Newer HTC devices however are looking at much better lockups on their bootloaders though and I would rather not have to risk a brick to flash my heart out. But these are all my own opinions, you have yours but these are mine.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

PaganAng3l said:
Ah, where to begin I'm guessing that you misunderstood what I said, or maybe I worded it wrong. In my previous post I was merely making a gross generalization. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love HTC for their build quality and the fact that my G2 (being over a year old) STILL puts up a decent fight against new devices. What I meant was that given a choice I will always support a manufacturer that keeps their devices unlocked (like samsung). Yes, samsung has had some pretty dismal failures in the phone department, but what about the Nexus S 4G? Not to mention the fact that according to a few websites, they seem to be learning from their mistakes and putting out great devices recently (matter of opinion though). I can't really see how my logic is flawed for wanting MY device to have an unlocked bootloader, it's just a standard I'm developing. As far as the thunderbolt getting root before release.... stuff happens unexpectedly and I'm glad the TB got root so soon. Newer HTC devices however are looking at much better lockups on their bootloaders though and I would rather not have to risk a brick to flash my heart out. But these are all my own opinions, you have yours but these are mine.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
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I was just referring to the first "Galaxy" set that came out. The S 4G, S II, and their releases this year have been stellar. But neither of those are on VZW . I would snatch up the SII in a second if it was on VZW.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D using XDA App

PaganAng3l said:
Ah, where to begin I'm guessing that you misunderstood what I said, or maybe I worded it wrong. In my previous post I was merely making a gross generalization. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love HTC for their build quality and the fact that my G2 (being over a year old) STILL puts up a decent fight against new devices. What I meant was that given a choice I will always support a manufacturer that keeps their devices unlocked (like samsung). Yes, samsung has had some pretty dismal failures in the phone department, but what about the Nexus S 4G? Not to mention the fact that according to a few websites, they seem to be learning from their mistakes and putting out great devices recently (matter of opinion though). I can't really see how my logic is flawed for wanting MY device to have an unlocked bootloader, it's just a standard I'm developing. As far as the thunderbolt getting root before release.... stuff happens unexpectedly and I'm glad the TB got root so soon. Newer HTC devices however are looking at much better lockups on their bootloaders though and I would rather not have to risk a brick to flash my heart out. But these are all my own opinions, you have yours but these are mine.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
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I'm in the same boat. I'm not going to buy a phone that's locked up tight. HTC better learn real quick that there are a lot of people like this. I was going to buy a honeycomb tablet if they came out with one because based on their phones I figured it would be pretty open. Now it looks like I'll have to go elsewhere. Maybe since a tablet won't be tied to a carrier they'll be more relaxed. I hope anyway...

ERIFNOMI said:
I'm in the same boat. I'm not going to buy a phone that's locked up tight. HTC better learn real quick that there are a lot of people like this. I was going to buy a honeycomb tablet if they came out with one because based on their phones I figured it would be pretty open. Now it looks like I'll have to go elsewhere. Maybe since a tablet won't be tied to a carrier they'll be more relaxed. I hope anyway...
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Click to collapse
I hear you. Some company will eventually embrace modders and devs, I just wanted it to be HTC. Oh well, sad day
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

It seems we've gone a bit off topic. I have been reading all the comments and have learned that Sammy isn't doing what HTC is starting to do with locking their bootloaders, something I didn't know before this thread, good to know. But the question I presented hasn't really been answered yet. How long, rough gestimation, would it take to crack the bootloader of the new phones HTC is coming out with. Are we talking weeks or months or more. I know this a question that can't be easily answered with a specific answer, but I'm looking more for how likely they are to be cracked in a timely manner. I'm not a hacker, cracker or code breaker so I really don't even know where to begin with trying to answer this question, hence why I put it forth here, on the forum of a phone that was locked and got unlocked hoping a dev could give me some info on weather getting the forthcoming Evo3D is a good idea for someone who want's to root the phone. I am however leaning back towards the Nexus s 4G because of this thread, but since money won't allow that at the moment, I'm exploring my options until the time I can afford a new phone.

The thunderbolt was rooted becuase we reverted to an older leaked rom which allowed us to bypass the whole signed bootloader. (I think) You might want to look into the incredible s which was released several months ago and has yet to me cracked. The security measures taken to lock down the G2 are not the same as the ones used on newer HTC devices. I don't think we'll be seeing any permanent root access HTC in a long time. Months at the very least.
Sent from The Republic of Texas

ddgarcia05 said:
The thunderbolt was rooted becuase we reverted to an older leaked rom which allowed us to bypass the whole signed bootloader. (I think) You might want to look into the incredible s which was released several months ago and has yet to me cracked. The security measures taken to lock down the G2 are not the same as the ones used on newer HTC devices. I don't think we'll be seeing any permanent root access HTC in a long time. Months at the very least.
Sent from The Republic of Texas
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, that was exactly what I was looking for. Sad news indeed. I'm guessing the Nexus S 4G is where I'm headed then, unless a Galaxy S 2 is slated to come out on sprint anytime soon that is. I'd really like to get a root-able, dual core, high resolution, bad ass phone if I'm going to be upgrading from my N1.

garfnodie said:
Thank you, that was exactly what I was looking for. Sad news indeed. I'm guessing the Nexus S 4G is where I'm headed then, unless a Galaxy S 2 is slated to come out on sprint anytime soon that is. I'd really like to get a root-able, dual core, high resolution, bad ass phone if I'm going to be upgrading from my N1.
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Click to collapse
I've been reading around about this (disappointing) news of HTC's lockdown using signed bootloaders, etc. and from what I have read, it seems like the crackers have indicated they are going to have a helluva time. A few tweets from jcase's twiiter page (whose opinions I personally value, YMMV):
If you want root, don't buy an yet to be rooted phone
[email protected] signed recovery, signed kernel, signed hboot, and write protection. won't buy [email protected] devices like that
HTC now MORE dev unfriendly than Motorola.
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Click to collapse
Looks pretty dreary for new HTC phones.

Droid, which has signed bootloader, is still locked, and it's pretty long on the market. It's a matter of years, if not eternity. It's f***ing hard to crack those keys.

What I don't understand is why HTC is doing this. You might think that it's the carriers pressuring them, but if Sammy, Sony Erricson, and Moto are or are soon going to be releasing phone without locked bootloaders, why does HTC feel the need to start now when they haven't in the past?

garfnodie said:
What I don't understand is why HTC is doing this. You might think that it's the carriers pressuring them, but if Sammy, Sony Erricson, and Moto are or are soon going to be releasing phone without locked bootloaders, why does HTC feel the need to start now when they haven't in the past?
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It's a pretty simple answer. Money.

mbh87 said:
It's a pretty simple answer. Money.
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How does a locked bootloader equal money?

garfnodie said:
How does a locked bootloader equal money?
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Click to collapse
Easy, keeps people using htc products, and makes us pay for tethering. Also makes sure that they know what ruu you're using.... Sucks
Edit: or whatever manufacturer made your device
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

Easy, keeps people using htc products
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How
and makes us pay for tethering.
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The carriers have already shown that they can detect unofficial tethering
Also makes sure that they know what ruu you're using
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Click to collapse
Why does it matter?

If you really think harrasing HTC will help

Some of you know me. Most of you don't. I don't know what weight, if any, what I have to say will carry.
Nonetheless, I do hope you read this and can appreciate my point of view.
Some background.. My first Android phone was the heroc, and since I bought it eons after initial release, it was already rooted and several alternative ROMs were available, including a still maturing CM 6.x. My second Android phone was the Evo 4G, again bought some time after its release, and root and CM were already available and improving day by day. In both cases, we had phones with relatively easy to defeat bootloader protection.
HTC learned from this. They knew that a system as vulnerable as that was a fairly easy target for those that wanted to do harm. Their engineering choices for the next series of devices was pretty much set in stone: They had to protect their phones from exploitation. Hence we see the shift to eMMC and other technologies to do just that.
How did the masses respond? Well, they didn't give a crap. It was just a miniscule subset of buyers of the new Evo 3D that started *****ing and whining because they couldn't easily bypass their enhanced protection.
After a rather ugly spat of "unlock or we walk" campaigning on their Facebook wall, they promised to unlock the bootloader. A promise I am confident they will keep, if on their terms.
So that we don't lose perspective here, understand that this was a response to a VERY SMALL (albeit vocal) fraction of people that have already purchased or will eventually purchase the phone.
To rephrase: The vast majority of people that buy this phone will never even consider running anything besides what HTC officially releases as an OTA update. It won't even occur to them to do otherwise.
The current stock ROM is not perfect by any means. But then again, when has it ever been that an initial release has been perfect?
Over the course of the next few months, HTC will hopefully work out the majority of the issues (and I am confident that they will, at least from the perspective of the regular user) and, quite frankly, that SHOULD be their focus.
Cue the whining facebook posters, threatening to return their device if HTC does not make unlocking the bootloader their top priority. Hate to break it to you, but they won't, and shouldn't, do that.
You know what? I really hope you return your phones if you don't get what you want. I hope you pout and stomp your feet in the process and bahave like some self-entitled jackass as well. This isn't just about you. It's about the entire customer base, and most of them just hope you will shut the **** up. To be honest, I am one of them.
When HTC does the smart thing, and unlocks the bootloader when they are as certain as they can be that doing so won't endanger the folks that won't take advantage of it in the first place, I'll get my AOSP, and my overclocked CPU, and my tasker and my titanium backup and all the other cool things that come with a rooted phone. And I will get them when having them doesn't put everyone else at risk.
They have a lot of bugs to fix. Some of them are quite annoying. Some of them (re: temproot) are flat out dangerous.
As much as I love and support the people putting countless hours into the root process (and I am actually wondering who gets there first, HTC or the devs) given what I have seen in the dev threads, I am leaning more and more towards waiting to see what HTC comes up with, then proceeding from there. They might not admit it, but I bet the devs are secretly doing the same.
Chill out, good things are coming

I heavily disagree.
I think the mass amount of emails sent to HTC regarding the bootloaders got through to HTC. No one wants to spend endless days responding to the same question over and over so they gave us an ETA (since that's exactly what a majority if their emails consisted of, an ETA request.) This, to me, shows that HTC noticed our presence and also showed how large our comminuty really is. Dissatisfied customers = money lost.

Holy Wall of text not bothering to read that mess... But +1. To whatever point your trying to make
3D > iClone

Wait, temproot is dangerous? how?
Sent from my E3D using Tapatalk

Jeremiah239 said:
Wait, temproot is dangerous? how?
Sent from my E3D using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
It's not. Everything is back to stock upon a reboot.

Overstew said:
It's not. Everything is back to stock upon a reboot.
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Click to collapse
OK good I thought I was loosing it lol.
Sent from my E3D using Tapatalk

I think its more so they listened because we're the kind of people who really push their phones around to other people. They constantly ask us what phones are good and such. We may be a minority but we sure do influence the other half of the consumers who don't care.

Overstew said:
I heavily disagree.
I think the mass amount of emails sent to HTC regarding the bootloaders got through to HTC. No one wants to spend endless days responding to the same question over and over so they gave us an ETA (since that's exactly what a majority if their emails consisted of, an ETA request.) This, to me, shows that HTC noticed our presence and also showed how large our comminuty really is. Dissatisfied customers = money lost.
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Click to collapse
We made our point, they agreed to unlock. Do you really think continuing to harrass them is going to get it done faster?

CyWhitfield said:
When HTC does the smart thing, and unlocks the bootloader when they are as certain as they can be that doing so won't endanger the folks that won't take advantage of it in the first place, I'll get my AOSP, and my overclocked CPU, and my tasker and my titanium backup and all the other cool things that come with a rooted phone. And I will get them when having them doesn't put everyone else at risk.
Chill out, good things are coming
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Click to collapse
I'm not disagreeing with you or mean this in a condescending way, I'm just wondering because I'm curious. How would this put people at risk/danger?

CyWhitfield said:
We made our point, they agreed to unlock. Do you really think continuing to harrass them is going to get it done faster?
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Click to collapse
My statement stands prior to the minorities bombarding their walls now. They've responded and have given an ETA. Anyone that wants to try to push them into releasing quicker, they should just understand it's the best option for now until Sprint releases the SGSII (which probably wont even be until next year.) So just stick with it and hang in there.
I will say I'd prefer it sooner but I think their ETA was made to be the latest date they could prolong the issue.

Jeremiah239 said:
Wait, temproot is dangerous? how?
Sent from my E3D using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
As we use it its not. That it can be done means there is an exploit that might be used for more nefarious purposes. Read the posts on it, they have reported it to HTC as such.

Overstew said:
I heavily disagree.
I think the mass amount of emails sent to HTC regarding the bootloaders got through to HTC. No one wants to spend endless days responding to the same question over and over so they gave us an ETA (since that's exactly what a majority if their emails consisted of, an ETA request.) This, to me, shows that HTC noticed our presence and also showed how large our comminuty really is. Dissatisfied customers = money lost.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you also completely missed the point.

Overstew said:
It's not. Everything is back to stock upon a reboot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The nature of the exploit is indeed dangerous, and exploitable - hence having it in the first place.

CyWhitfield said:
The nature of the exploit is indeed dangerous, and exploitable - hence having it in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, the exploit can be malicious in the wrong hands, but you stated temproot in the OP, which was misleading. I've read your OP and I've commented on it. I just want to ask, if we make up such a minority of unhappy buyers, then why do they find the need to put s-off in the first place?

vgupman said:
I'm not disagreeing with you or mean this in a condescending way, I'm just wondering because I'm curious. How would this put people at risk/danger?
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Click to collapse
the exploit that gives us temp root is dangerous enough that those that discovered it have reported it to HTC.

Ranger093 said:
I think its more so they listened because we're the kind of people who really push their phones around to other people. They constantly ask us what phones are good and such. We may be a minority but we sure do influence the other half of the consumers who don't care.
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Click to collapse
Not really, but if it makes you feel better to think otherwise, who am I to shatter that belief.

I agree With the Op
Don't get me wrong I haven't run a stock phones for a while... Windows mobile now android
But, I agree. Things always get done, it was going to get unlocked and indoor think some people got a little out of hand with the crying
Anyways, I'll wait till we get s-off to start my fun.. In the mean time I have other things to have fun with
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

Overstew said:
Yes, the exploit can be malicious in the wrong hands, but you stated temproot in the OP, which was misleading. I've read your OP and I've commented on it. I just want to ask, if we make up such a minority of unhappy buyers, then why do they find the need to put s-off in the first place?
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Click to collapse
Its not misleading. the exploit is dangerous and will likely be fixed soon.
You assume they are giving us S-Off, which in the vernacular of what the 3vo is just doesnt make sense anyway. This isnt as simple as that.
They are probably going to make it so we can write to /system. I do not envision a scenario where we get the equivalent of S-Off, but I also dont see where they have to. this isnt the 4g.

Mayonesa said:
I agree With the Op
Don't get me wrong I haven't run a stock phones for a while... Windows mobile now android
But, I agree. Things always get done, it was going to get unlocked and indoor think some people got a little out of hand with the crying
Anyways, I'll wait till we get s-off to start my fun.. In the mean time I have other things to have fun with
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
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Its not that I think they wont get it done, but hammering them about it is getting old. I think they got our message long ago. Its going to happen. I dont see how hammering them relentlessly will get it done any faster.

CyWhitfield said:
Some of you know me. Most of you don't. I don't know what weight, if any, what I have to say will carry.
<lots of useless nonsense/>
Chill out, good things are coming
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Just saw this update across Facebook from HTC:
Thanks so much for providing feedback, we hear your concerns. Your satisfaction is a top priority for us and we're working hard to ensure you have great experiences with our phones. We're reviewing the issue and our policy around bootloaders and will provide more information soon. Thank you for your interest, support and willingness to share your feedback.
**UPDATE**
We’ve listened. Check out the statement from our CEO, Peter Chou on HTC bootloaders. Click the link for more info. http://on.fb.me/iZXgkR
**UPDATE 7/10**
We wanted to provide an update on HTC’s progress with bringing bootloader unlocking to our newest phones. We know how excited some of you are for this capability, and we’ve put significant resources behind making this change as soon as possible. While we wish we could flip a simple switch and unlock all bootloaders across our device portfolio, this is actually a complex challenge that requires a new software build and extensive testing to deliver the best possible customer experience.
We’re thrilled to announce today that software updates to support bootloader unlocking will begin rolling out in August for the global HTC Sensation, followed by the HTC Sensation 4G on T-Mobile USA and the HTC EVO 3D on Sprint. We’re in the testing phase for the unlocking capability now, and we expect it to be fully operational by early September for devices that have received the software updates. We'll continue rolling out the unlocking capability over time to other devices as part of maintenance releases and new shipments.
HTC continues its commitment to unlocking bootloaders and supporting the developer community. Because of the importance of this community to us, please expect an update on this about every few weeks as we make progress toward launch. Thank you for your patience and continued support!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I think basically that means they ARE making it a top priority, and it makes your rant irrelevant.

[Q] A Second Phone

Hello,
I'll cut to the chase cause i have a tendency to drag out the tiniest detail for ages, and i just wanna ask this XD
Basically, i have a Galaxy S II, and i love it, i started hacking it around august after owning it since the UK launch. I like to see myself as fairly competant when it comes to NOT permabricking it, however i still am hesitant to flash new roms, kernels cause of lingering fears.
So! What i came here to ask, is i am planning to purchase a second phone just for this reason, and have been looking at the Nexus One, HTC Desire, and original Galaxy S. Sadly i dont know much about the hacking scene of every other phone, so i dont really know what other choices there are.
Basically, what phone would you reccomend, even if i havent mentioned it, to buy purely for the community behind it?
Thanks,
Katy

The HTC Vision (aka the T-Mobile G2/Desire Z) has a great community of developers, cookers, and users. I was hesitant to start flashing custom ROMs initially after rooting as well. So I went back and hacked my old Motorola Cliq to test things out. I promise you if you can read and follow directions you'll have no problems flashing ROMs... there's a great variety of ROMs for the Vision and I expect in the not too distant future we'll also see Ice Cream Sandwich.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

KatDjtized said:
Hello,
I'll cut to the chase cause i have a tendency to drag out the tiniest detail for ages, and i just wanna ask this XD
Basically, i have a Galaxy S II, and i love it, i started hacking it around august after owning it since the UK launch. I like to see myself as fairly competant when it comes to NOT permabricking it, however i still am hesitant to flash new roms, kernels cause of lingering fears.
So! What i came here to ask, is i am planning to purchase a second phone just for this reason, and have been looking at the Nexus One, HTC Desire, and original Galaxy S. Sadly i dont know much about the hacking scene of every other phone, so i dont really know what other choices there are.
Basically, what phone would you reccomend, even if i havent mentioned it, to buy purely for the community behind it?
Thanks,
Katy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i would choose motorola droid(fav one) and nexus.I know droid is not in your list...

Never go for HTC... my experience after being a HTC user.
Accidentally sent from my Google Nexus S using XDA Premium

I would beg to differ on the previous HTC comment. I have an Evo. It's getting up in age, but I love it. There are tons of roms available for it, and even though development has slowed, you'd still be surprised at the amount of development happening. If you're looking for a phone solely for playing with, you'd have plenty of options with the Evo. You can get one fairly cheap, especially if you opt for one with a bad ESN - which you might as well since you won't be activating it.
It's nearly impossible to brick - the only way you could would be to pull the battery during a radio update.
Of course which phone you get depends on your wants and needs. Check out the development subforums for the devices you have in mind.
Sent from my Evo + MIUI using Tapatalk!

plainjane said:
I would beg to differ on the previous HTC comment. I have an Evo. It's getting up in age, but I love it. There are tons of roms available for it, and even though development has slowed, you'd still be surprised at the amount of development happening. If you're looking for a phone solely for playing with, you'd have plenty of options with the Evo. You can get one fairly cheap, especially if you opt for one with a bad ESN - which you might as well since you won't be activating it.
It's nearly impossible to brick - the only way you could would be to pull the battery during a radio update.
Of course which phone you get depends on your wants and needs. Check out the development subforums for the devices you have in mind.
Sent from my Evo + MIUI using Tapatalk!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nexus one and evo is different. Doesn't like HTC due to not giving out updates that they promised. Eg: HTC flyer is still in GB. If you wanted a true unbrickable phone, get a developers' phone. Instant update and super extremely easy to unlock. And it is fit for every update to give you full user experience.
Accidentally sent from my Google Nexus S using XDA Premium

The HD2 is an option too. Getting seriously old (but that much as dual core has still to be really used by the OS) but it sill has a lot of development going on, kernel and ROM wise...MIUI, CM7, Sense, WP7 and WinMo etc.

HTC and S-OFF. What do you think?

Thought I would create a simple poll. Let the people voice their thoughts!!
The question's simple:"Would you buy another HTC phone if it was impossible to turn S-Off?"
Yes or No.After voting, please post in the thread explaining your choice.
If I reach 500 votes, I will personally spam every public avenue HTC has with a direct link to this thread so they can see the impact their choice to lock down their most recent devices has made.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT:: My answer is no. If it was impossible to turn the Security flag OFF then I would never purchase another HTC phone again. I am a firm believer that since it is MY property that I should be able to do with it whatever I want, when I want, how I want.. Without ANYONE telling me that I can't. PERIOD. If HTC want's to play these games and tell me what I can and can't do with my property then I will never purchase another HTC phone again.
Seeing as how my last 8 phones had the HTC brand on them, they will definitely be losing one very loyal customer...
I swore that I would never buy an iPhone because they are so locked down it's disgusting and consistently push out updates to try to stop attempts at jailbreaking the device. With that being said I stuck to my guns. I never bought one. Or any other Apple product for that matter. This is what the Amaze 4G is starting to remind me of.
HTC has officially dropped the ball this time and it's time we, the people, the one's paying idiotic amounts of money for these phones actually tried to do something about it.

I would still buy HTC. I'm sure devs can figure out a way to turn it off eventually, and I like the look of HTC phones (form and screen) the best.

I find it insanely stupid to pay six hundred dollars and not own a device. I love this phone but it will more than likely be my last HTC phone. I won't go Apple but probably back to Samsung, even though I owned the Moment,worse phone ever, or maybe Google will do more with the Moto Mobile and put out a great phone. I just don't see HTC doing what's right and giving us S-off or making it any easier.

No I Will NOT Buy Another HTC...Amaze Is For Sale!
People having "FUN" with their phones...that's precisely what drives new phone sales now. When newcomers pop onto a Great Dev Site, such as XDA, it literally drives/motivates them to run out and buy "the phone everyone's having such a great time playing with"...because...everyone wants to have fun with their phone! HTC & others build great form & functionality into their phones, but that's not to say they know best...we're simply talking about a staff of engineers that are tasked with developing a phone which functions 100% of the time, for 100% of the buying public, which only speaks to whats best for THEM...while very commendable feats of accomplishment indeed, each individual being able to take that same phone & teach it to do "flips & cartwheels", in addition to the "sit-ups & summersaults" the engineers have already presented, is but a further testiment to their great feat of engineering. I would consider this to be very "complimentary"...opposed to the "intrusive" stance they seem to be taking. Think about it & stand in their shoes for a moment. Try to imagine what a proud engineer would say..."gosh, look what great things these people are doing with My Phone". Anyone can build a phone...HTC used to build FUN into their phones...that's why I bought my First HTC...second HTC...third HTC. People must have fun with their phones....I believe HTC is too smart to not allow that any longer. HTC cannot possibly believe the sales of this "locked-up, house-trained Parrot" will ever soar with "Eagles" such as the likes of the HD2, the DHD, the EVO, the Sensation, and many others to this point! How many potential sales of the AMAZE have been negated by people coming to XDA alone? I would very safely say...enough to make a couple of down-ticks on their not-so-Amaze-ing revenues. On a separate up-note...all the Devs here at XDA are very first-rate, thorough & innovative. I have followed practically all of them, used all of their ROMs, tweaks & gadgets to complete satisfaction...I personally Thank All of You Very Much......
...."You All Alllowed Me To Have FUN With My Phone"....

No Way
I totally agree with daswahnsinn. I bought the phone and it should be mine to use however I like.

MildewMan said:
I would still buy HTC. I'm sure devs can figure out a way to turn it off eventually, and I like the look of HTC phones (form and screen) the best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There in lies the problem. It is not our responsibility to bypass security, create bounties or make pledges just to have full control over something WE own. Imagine purchasing a tv, only to discover certain cable providers are not compatible with it simply because the manufacturer of the tv says so. HTC has no logic reason for enabling this unnecessary security, but it's there nonetheless.
Meanwhile, we're left with a device, that some of use paid full price for, to use how HTC wants us to use it. I've been a fan of HTC since the Dash but this will be the last if they continue with this shady practice.

Still yes but i never buy new release phone wait for couple of months and see if there are any progress on the community for the device if it is rootable or the devs are interested to go on for further development.. there is a positive and negative side for this S-On S-Off thing..
first for the positive side yes it is a expensive device but there are alot of new comers aka (the one who doesn't carefully read and understand.) And if they saw a post like how to turn S-On to S-Off or Root your phone etc.. they just go straight away without reading the thread replies and so on and if that happen that it did brick there phone so to there last resort they will return there phone to htc for replacement or repair.. waste of time or money bad for htc to replace the unit that is defective.. that is why they impliment the locked S-On thing.
Negative is for us who want to fully expand the capabilities of our device yes we bought it in a highed price for this time and as a consumer once we bought it that means that we own it.. we need S-Off to customize and tell our phone what or how we want it to act up.. personal taste and personal preferences and that us consumers makes us happy for what we paid for..
as for the htc i hope that we have option like what you did for your bootloader to unlocked or re-locked the bootloader we hope the same thing on the S-ON thing..

Chance Ill said:
There in lies the problem. It is not our responsibility to bypass security, create bounties or make pledges just to have full control over something WE own. Imagine purchasing a tv, only to discover certain cable providers are not compatible with it simply because the manufacturer of the tv says so. HTC has no logic reason for enabling this unnecessary security, but it's there nonetheless.
Meanwhile, we're left with a device, that some of use paid full price for, to use how HTC wants us to use it. I've been a fan of HTC since the Dash but this will be the last if they continue with this shady practice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
isn't the reason htc is doing this is to prevent people from bricking their phones and thus trying to claim a warranty exchange on a "broken" device? and sadly enough i heard of several people doing this back in the mt4g thread
from a business standpoint it makes perfect sense to me... and its funny how everyone is saying htc is preventing them from "fully owning" their phones, just cuz they're not helping us achieve s-off, which for the above reason i understand
and for those complaining that they spent $600+ on the phone and feel even more entitled to be able to do anything they want with it, well sorry you guys didn't have the patience to wait, either for the next time you're due for an upgrade, or for the price to drop...
my reason for choosing htc has/was/will always be cuz i like sense better than touchwiz/blur/aosp, they make great looking devices, and usually have some killer phone specs
besides, there's really not that much we can't do with our phones at this point, except flash radios, kernels already have a work around so really what's the big deal?

smatthew45 said:
isn't the reason htc is doing this is to prevent people from bricking their phones and thus trying to claim a warranty exchange on a "broken" device? and sadly enough i heard of several people doing this back in the mt4g thread
from a business standpoint it makes perfect sense to me... and its funny how everyone is saying htc is preventing them from "fully owning" their phones, just cuz they're not helping us achieve s-off, which for the above reason i understand
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that's the reason they gave us. I think another reason they are doing this is to prevent us from being able to make our phone the same as new phones that come out, so we still buy the new phones that come out.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium

ATTN HTC:
IMHO, give the users S-OFF just like you've unlocked the bootloader. Force verified registration and have the users sign an EULA with all the caveats to removing S-ON.
Provide support/warranty for hardware only. Know that when you send your device in for hardware warranty purposes only, that your data will be wiped. Return the device (or a refurbed one) back to the user bone stock. Locked bootloader, S-ON, stock ROM, wiped internal SD, etc etc.
If the problem wasn't HW related and HTC has incurred costs fixing or diagnosing a software bug (ie: stupid luser bricked it because they didn't follow proper flashing instructions, etc) then send them a bill with the phone or send it back via UPS/FedEx COD. You want the phone back? Get your wallet out. You knew you were playing with fire when you registered for S-OFF/Unlocked bootloader.
The goal here is:
1) give the users what they want (S-OFF, Unlocked bootloader, Source, etc)
2) provide support for what should be supported or agreed upon (EULA)
3) hold the users accountable for their own mistakes (COD device returns for non-hw repairs)
4) provide world-class hardware & service and excel in this market via transparency
If I got this kind of service and support from a manufacturer; I'd be loyal to the brand for life.... and that's a lot of devices.
Cheers
(edit) and yes, I own an HTC Amaze 4G. my DD

smatthew45 said:
isn't the reason htc is doing this is to prevent people from bricking their phones and thus trying to claim a warranty exchange on a "broken" device? and sadly enough i heard of several people doing this back in the mt4g thread
from a business standpoint it makes perfect sense to me... and its funny how everyone is saying htc is preventing them from "fully owning" their phones, just cuz they're not helping us achieve s-off, which for the above reason i understand
and for those complaining that they spent $600+ on the phone and feel even more entitled to be able to do anything they want with it, well sorry you guys didn't have the patience to wait, either for the next time you're due for an upgrade, or for the price to drop...
my reason for choosing htc has/was/will always be cuz i like sense better than touchwiz/blur/aosp, they make great looking devices, and usually have some killer phone specs
besides, there's really not that much we can't do with our phones at this point, except flash radios, kernels already have a work around so really what's the big deal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I have to explain the significance of S-off and the difference between security and prevention, you have no idea of the purpose of this thread, let alone development.....
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium

smatthew45 said:
and for those complaining that they spent $600+ on the phone and feel even more entitled to be able to do anything they want with it, well sorry you guys didn't have the patience to wait, either for the next time you're due for an upgrade, or for the price to drop...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
on your this point, it's not always that black and white, it's possible that, like me, their everyday phone just happened to break and they don't want to get a new one of their old phone, just to have to upgrade in a few months as they were planning on doing in the first place before their phone broke, as is the case with me... so I figured well I'll pay a little more for a new phone that will still be worth something when it comes time to get the phone I REALLY want...
glacierguy said:
I think that's the reason they gave us. I think another reason they are doing this is to prevent us from being able to make our phone the same as new phones that come out, so we still buy the new phones that come out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I kind of agree, but samsung sure isn't having any issues selling new phones...
hyperkamote said:
as for the htc i hope that we have option like what you did for your bootloader to unlocked or re-locked the bootloader we hope the same thing on the S-ON thing..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this would be the best route, that way people who don't care about the warranty and want to be able to do whatever they please with the device they purchased, can do so. And those who care about the warranty, can either wait it out, or choose to take a chance. Choice is the key here... that, to me, would be the easy way to do it that would be beneficial both to the consumer and to the manufacturer and distributors from a support standpoint.

If I wanted a locked phone, I'd have gotten the smugphone. I'm a technician with a bs in computer science. I don't need someone else telling me how use hardware that I paid the not subsidized price.

I don't have any statistics, but I'm willing to bet only a small minority of phone users actually root their phones and do the things we do here on xda. the reasoning that HTC is protecting us from ourselves or even protecting their own interest by not having to replace bricked phones is asinine. Samsung sold 20 million s2's so far and I'm willing to bet not even 10% of those phones have been rooted let alone sent back for root/modified related issues. Regardless, I'm not sure if sending them messages or whatever will help, but I still say go for it. It certainly wont hurt anything

its funny how samsung, sony and other companys are unlocking their bootloaders and stuff and HTC hasnt learned anything by this? xD

Yes, but only because if HTC doesn't get it together with Android I'm honestly debating going to WP7. I love the customization on Android but I don't like Samsung or any other Android phones so far (Maybe the Galaxy Nexus, which isn't on TMo). Maybe this will change, but as of now it's either HTC with Android or WP7.
I know it's taboo to mention WP7, but there are more and more tweaks and hacks coming out and they really are simple, beautiful, easy phones. I don't want to, but I hate the "business model" with Android manufacturers making tons of unfinished phones every year....

If it was truly impossible I would say a defiant NO! I'm really sick of this phone being so locked down I love htc's build quality but I am so tempted just to get a galaxy s 2 and not even waste my next upgrade on an htc phone if they keep this up
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium

Yes, I would, because I don't always have to root a phone/hack it to death to enjoy it, but that is just me and would be definitely in the shallow end of the pool on this site. I mean, I like to mess with ROM's and what not as much as the next guy, but it isn't a necessitie to me. I honestly still rocking a stock Amaze as it works fine for me. Now my MT4G is rooted and have been through a bunch of ROMS on it.
A lot of it is a time thing for me. Just have other interests taking a bigger role in my life currently. One day I may root this, but it won't ruin the experience for me.
I also don't get how someone posting this on February 24th can be this fabergasted by no S-off as it has been out since what November? The early adapters I can understand their frustration more so, but not someone who just recently got the phone or if they were an early adapter, waiting a few months to post how upset and fed up with HTC they are.
Just my opinion in a sea of many.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk

Chance Ill said:
If I have to explain the significance of S-off and the difference between security and prevention, you have no idea of the purpose of this thread, let alone development.....
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ya i guess we can all just cry and complain to htc, and threaten to switch to another manufacturer like you want to do right? get real... lol
you said htc has no logical reason for enabling this unnecessary security, i just gave you a good reason, they gave us unlock to allow us to somewhat modify our phones without the chance of bricking and thus claiming a warranty exchange...
and htc has never helped anyone achieve s-off, it's always been the hard work of some dev/team to make that happen, and that remains true today with our amaze, the problem being we don't have many devs working on getting s-off on our phones...
again just cuz htc isn't helping us achieve s-off, doesn't mean they are stopping us from trying or "keeping us from fully owning our phones"

Yes I would, imo, HTC is the best company out there, I honestly think that HTC devices are the most popular among developers and advanced users, also, you have lots of choices if you root, aosp, sense, or miui
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using Xparent Green Tapatalk

REALLY!?!?!?!?!?

This is absolutely RIDICULOUS, we have been waiting for an entire month for the 1.22 source code but the galaxy note 10.1 has source already AND THE DEVICE DOESN'T COME OUT FOR A FEW MORE WEEKS!!!!! IS IT REALLY THAT HARD FOR HTC TO UPLOAD A 100MB FILE FOR USE TO USE??? It bugs the hell out of me just how little HTC cares about releasing this stuff...
Souce link: http://www.xda-developers.com/andro...te-10-1-kernel-source-weeks-ahead-of-release/
mods feel free to close if you feel this will turn into a keyboard warrior warzone

Over the years Samsung has really stepped up there game. Which is why they are the lead android manufacturer now. HTC needs to take some notes, and get rid of dev unlock, release source codes faster, and upgrade the Android OS faster (evo 3d). Take Samsung for example they told all the US retailers they weren't making different variations of the SGS3 and they released them all around the same time. Why cant HTC do that? My next phone will most likely be a Samsung.

supers2k said:
Over the years Samsung has really stepped up there game. Which is why they are the lead android manufacturer now. HTC needs to take some notes, and get rid of dev unlock, release source codes faster, and upgrade the Android OS faster (evo 3d). Take Samsung for example they told all the US retailers they weren't making different variations of the SGS3 and they released them all around the same time. Why cant HTC do that? My next phone will most likely be a Samsung.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
exactly! and ive been tempted to get samsung phones after seeing the s2 and s3 but with all the word about their phones being kinda shotty when it comes to build quality i always end up staying htc... its a vicious circle where you can't win

Another 60 days most likely before kernel source.

this is the last htc phone im getting

ca1ne said:
Another 60 days most likely before kernel source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
or they will release it as soon as they update us to the new update the the one x got
flex360 said:
this is the last htc phone im getting
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think im going to have to join you on this

This is my first HTC phone... I come from mostly samsung. I will not be getting another htc until they step us... The phone build quality is great but all my phones live in otter cases so that does not matter....
I think I'm going to nexus next.... I like flashing to much for this crap...
Sent from my EVO using xda premium

I agree. Really frustrating!
Every time I pose the question on their Facebook it gets deleted almost immediately.
I really don't understand what is going on with HTC these days. They used to be much more responsive to this kind of stuff.
I'm just not sure what to do about it.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

supers2k said:
upgrade the Android OS faster (evo 3d).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure that the heavy delay on the ics upgrade for the EVO 3d was on sprints end...especially since the virgin mobile variant received its upgrade quite a bit sooner...but I do wish they'd release source sooner it is annoying but hey I love their devices so I'll stick it out for a while and see if things get better lol
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app

I really don't want to be a jerk but there is at least one other thread on the topic with a much more descriptive thread topic.
I've had the Hero, OG EVO, Epic 4g, Moment, and Photon....I've played with the Epic 4g touch as well.
Samsung's have been notorious for GPS and other build problems...After my experience with the Photon ill never buy Moto again. You think dev is slow here....try a Moto phone with a locked Bootloader.
I always end up going back to HTC.
With that said I'm really surprised how unstable stock is...especially Sense and the WiFi drop issue drives me up a wall.
Hopefully this will get resolved soon cuz I love this phone overall.

I will never go Samsung
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

dougm0 said:
I really don't want to be a jerk but there is at least one other thread on the topic with a much more descriptive thread topic.
I've had the Hero, OG EVO, Epic 4g, Moment, and Photon....I've played with the Epic 4g touch as well.
Samsung's have been notorious for GPS and other build problems...After my experience with the Photon ill never buy Moto again. You think dev is slow here....try a Moto phone with a locked Bootloader.
I always end up going back to HTC.
With that said I'm really surprised how unstable stock is...especially Sense and the WiFi drop issue drives me up a wall.
Hopefully this will get resolved soon cuz I love this phone overall.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed gps can be a bear with Samsung. Also in almost every modem update its like the first modem they did ever. Better connection, lower battery. Next version bad connection, good battery, rinse, repeat.
Oh and as I have said before. Still waiting on evo 4g 4.67 ota kernel source. Well over gpl time. Now they don't even respond to my requests, at least they used to, until I advised them of the dates... And I'm sorry, 5.07 ota, doesn't qualify as reseting the clock,.

There's a thread like this every week...
They're funny to me because of what people are complaining about. People are mad at HTC for not releasing their source fast enough just so they can get rid of the UI that's on damn near all HTC android phones. If I were HTC, I wouldn't be in a rush either.
And sheesh, when the source does drop, you still have people impatient. Comparing this dev community to another phone's...always asking when a kernel is going to be made or when CM or AOKP will be dropped. I don't even know why people are buying phones now...I would say they're only doing it for CM and/or AOKP but if you wanted that...you could've just gone with the Nexus.
Idk if it's just me but i have NO idea why 95% of the people on this forum have this phone. Clearly it's not because you like the Evo 4g LTE because threads like these are proof that you do not like this phone.
I just don't get it....and people are so quick to bash iPhones too but c'mon...look at these threads. There was a thread where a dude was disappointed in this phone because it didn't have all CM or AOKP up as fast the OG Evo did. Seriously? And that got me thinkin'...the majority of the people are disappointed in that way...disappointed because they don't have CM or AOKP because HTC or Samsung didn't drop source which would help the devs and blah blah. When you look at it, people are just buying newer phones to run the exact same ROM they were on before. And people say they like Android because you aren't locked down or any of that stuff...but most of y'all might as well be because when presented with something different, you hate it. But that's me going on a tangent because this thread isn't even about that!
This thread. Is about. HTC. Not releasing source. And people are saying "This is my last HTC phone." I'm serious...if I'm the only one who sees how absurd that is..wow. Seriously...just enjoy the phone. If source was such a big deal...should've gone with the Nexus. Damn shame that some of y'all even factor that into a decision on the phone. The dev community should not be what makes or breaks a phone. These dudes don't work for HTC...so when you start factoring the dev community into positives and negatives for the phone...you put a lot of pressure on devs who aren't even making bank on this.
I just can't believe that we've all lived through times when we didn't even have phones...and the one thing that upsets everyone the most is the fact that HTC hasn't dropped source. Never mind the fact taht we are doing some insane things on this phone right now..doing things we've never even dreamed of a decade ago...and one of the biggest issues of right now is ****in source. Ungrateful.

I'd rather put my nuts in a vice than buy a Samsung phone. We have custom kernels that work with the latest ota anyway. HTC for life!
Sent from my EVO

ms79723 said:
There's a thread like this every week...
They're funny to me because of what people are complaining about. People are mad at HTC for not releasing their source fast enough just so they can get rid of the UI that's on damn near all HTC android phones. If I were HTC, I wouldn't be in a rush either.
And sheesh, when the source does drop, you still have people impatient. Comparing this dev community to another phone's...always asking when a kernel is going to be made or when CM or AOKP will be dropped. I don't even know why people are buying phones now...I would say they're only doing it for CM and/or AOKP but if you wanted that...you could've just gone with the Nexus.
Idk if it's just me but i have NO idea why 95% of the people on this forum have this phone. Clearly it's not because you like the Evo 4g LTE because threads like these are proof that you do not like this phone.
I just don't get it....and people are so quick to bash iPhones too but c'mon...look at these threads. There was a thread where a dude was disappointed in this phone because it didn't have all CM or AOKP up as fast the OG Evo did. Seriously? And that got me thinkin'...the majority of the people are disappointed in that way...disappointed because they don't have CM or AOKP because HTC or Samsung didn't drop source which would help the devs and blah blah. When you look at it, people are just buying newer phones to run the exact same ROM they were on before. And people say they like Android because you aren't locked down or any of that stuff...but most of y'all might as well be because when presented with something different, you hate it. But that's me going on a tangent because this thread isn't even about that!
This thread. Is about. HTC. Not releasing source. And people are saying "This is my last HTC phone." I'm serious...if I'm the only one who sees how absurd that is..wow. Seriously...just enjoy the phone. If source was such a big deal...should've gone with the Nexus. Damn shame that some of y'all even factor that into a decision on the phone. The dev community should not be what makes or breaks a phone. These dudes don't work for HTC...so when you start factoring the dev community into positives and negatives for the phone...you put a lot of pressure on devs who aren't even making bank on this.
I just can't believe that we've all lived through times when we didn't even have phones...and the one thing that upsets everyone the most is the fact that HTC hasn't dropped source. Never mind the fact taht we are doing some insane things on this phone right now..doing things we've never even dreamed of a decade ago...and one of the biggest issues of right now is ****in source. Ungrateful.
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no i bought this phone because i had the original evo 4g and loved it more than any other phone, then when i saw this phone i knew i had to get it. i love this phones build quality and the hardware in it but its b.s. that htc will not release source. i don't even care about aosp since sense 4 actually seems like something useful and not crazy bloated like sense 2.0+ i just want some kernels to run on sense so we can get some proper fixings going on instead of modifying the hell out of the old base's source and using every work around in the book to get them to function properly. not to say that the kernels we are starting to see are bad. and the saying "oh should have got a nexus" is bullsh*t if i wanted one i would have got one, but instead i wanted the evo lte and its more up to date and better hardware. if i wanted an already outdated phone i would have just stuck with my original evo. the point is, no matter what phone you buy you SHOULD be able to do what you want with it and you SHOULD be givin the proper code to do it with. and since htc is failing to do this, it is the reason there is a new thread every week complaining about it and they have a damn good reason to do so because this is ridiculous. so if you don't like the threads then tough sh*t because your going to keep seeing them till it drops and it will happen again with the next update. get used to it
Edit: and you can't honestly sit there and say that this isn't completely unnecessary. THEY ALREADY HAVE THE SOURCE READY, all they have to do is upload it within a day or 2 of an ota like samsung and people would be happy. and what do they have to lose by releasing it? they already got our money when we bought the phone so what do they care what we do with it?
now lets stop this here, we don't need another thread of keyboard warriors

ms:
People got the phone for the hardware. Camera, screen, storage, CPU, etc. People on a development forum are likely going to get a phone with development and AOSP in mind, yes. That makes perfect sense. Also, many people got this phone trusting the reviewers that said Sense 4.0 was toned down and unobtrusive. They were let down, and are holding out hope that the devs can pick up HTC's mess and clean it up and utilize this powerful hardware. This isn't mind-blowing stuff. People didn't want the Nexus because it was dated when Sprint got it, and the camera and screen seemed far inferior.
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app

PsiPhiDan said:
ms:
People got the phone for the hardware. Camera, screen, storage, CPU, etc. People on a development forum are likely going to get a phone with development and AOSP in mind, yes. That makes perfect sense. Also, many people got this phone trusting the reviewers that said Sense 4.0 was toned down and unobtrusive. They were let down, and are holding out hope that the devs can pick up HTC's mess and clean it up and utilize this powerful hardware. This isn't mind-blowing stuff. People didn't want the Nexus because it was dated when Sprint got it, and the camera and screen seemed far inferior.
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
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Yeah, that^.

PsiPhiDan said:
ms:
People got the phone for the hardware. Camera, screen, storage, CPU, etc. People on a development forum are likely going to get a phone with development and AOSP in mind, yes. That makes perfect sense. Also, many people got this phone trusting the reviewers that said Sense 4.0 was toned down and unobtrusive. They were let down, and are holding out hope that the devs can pick up HTC's mess and clean it up and utilize this powerful hardware. This isn't mind-blowing stuff. People didn't want the Nexus because it was dated when Sprint got it, and the camera and screen seemed far inferior.
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
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I agree with you for the most part.
What I disagree on is Sense NOT being toned down and less obtrusive. Sense 4.0 is much better than Sense 3.0 was. It's much smoother, it looks better, and keeps the functionality it needs while not being too bloated like previous versions of Sense were.
What drags the Sense experience down is the memory management, which is lacking. I would argue that is less of an issue with Sense and more of an issue of optimization of memory. I for one never had Sense reloads when I was stock, but then again I was never running a ton of apps at once. All HTC has to do is make the memory management less aggressive and we wouldn't have nearly as many problems.
Sense DOES utilize this phone's hardware very well, and you can see that in how smooth everything is. We just need that memory management worked on. If we had more RAM in the phone it would be PERFECT.

I still don't understand the RAM argument. We aren't even that close to maxing our RAM, so why do we need more? I've been told by people much more informed than me about Android that it utilizes RAM differently than Windows, so 100MB free is no different than 1.1 GB free. I agree with you that the memory management is at fault here, but I think that's the end of the story.
Edit: TouchWiz is much smoother than Sense, and many people had many Sense reloads while stock... I'm not sure I care for Sense 4.0 much more than I did 3.0, especially considering the fake multi-tasking.
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app

okay guys heres a thought....how about instead of turning on each other, and starting the talk of "ill never own an HTC again" crap, you do something productive and start a movement against HTC proactively to be loud about them being lazy on releasing source code?....Leaving HTC isn't going to fix the issue at hand, as they wont see the effect in their sales #'s by the few in the dev community leaving to make them give a F....What they will do is react to a giant community outcry over a pressing issue on slow source release! They did it with the locked bootloaders so another push for source might make them change their ways...
Just saying, threads saying "this is my last htc device b/c they are slow are releasing source..." are silly and pointless....
Do something to make a change and start a vocal complaint movement instead of just sitting here and complaining/whining about it on xda!

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